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(The Atlantic)   Modern Poverty: Almost half of Public School students are now low-income ..... students from low-income families tend to end up parents of low-income families   (theatlantic.com) divider line 324
    More: Fail, income families, families tend, late-2000s recession, Texas District, poverty, families  
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3163 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Oct 2013 at 10:32 AM (40 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-18 03:21:16 PM
Figuring out to allocate limited financial resources is hard and contentious.
Better to have infinite financial resources to allocate.
Thanks beard brothers.

graphics8.nytimes.com

theeconomiccollapseblog.com
 
2013-10-18 03:25:40 PM

Lawnchair: brantgoose: It is. It's done. The natural rate of increase in America is barely above replacement level. Replacement level is the lowest level which will maintain the population and also replace the workers with new workers. Drop below that level and you get "negative growth". This is bad for the economy except perhaps in the thinking of the more radical environmentalists, who welcome the prospect of the human race shrinking and doing less damage to the world through unsustainable growth and consumption.

Zero-to-negative population growth is the future.  Japan world.  Places like Turkey, Brazil, and Mexico are already at replacement-level fertility.  The US is an outlier among major western democracies for still having a near-replacement birth rate.

That die is already cast. Humanity will be under 10 billion, within the lifetime of many people reading today.  We aren't going to keep skimming off the growth fundamentally based on underlying 2% annual population growth (which is what we did in the 19th and 20th centuries). Nor could we, environmentally, forever and ever.

 If 'economics' can't handle steady-state solutions, we have to rewrite 'economics'.


This will overall be a good thing.

One of the reasons the Renaissance happened was the Black Plague killed off a good third of population of Europe, which raised labor wages and helped dismantle the feudal system.
 
2013-10-18 03:31:54 PM

Fano: Well sure, with data collection the Stasi and KGB would have creamed themselves for, a communist dictatorship is even easier than ever. The Chinese may have perfected a commie/crony capitalism situation.

But we'll never know, because True Communism has never, and will never, be tried. Just like True Libertarianism.


Well, the forces you mention are the exact same people as the greedy rich in America. The rich are trying to pull the same stuff, just power hungry insanity. We currently have (or perhaps HAD) a system where greed was kept in check by the power of government. We called it Capitalism but it's really Regulated Capitalism. This is a system doomed to failure as the rich get richer and more powerful. They've already convinced a lot of gullible people that it's best to just let them run things without the regulation part. Then it's just back to a garbage society run by kings and queens until they go too far and get the deaths they deserve.

Something like Communism seems pretty inevitable.
 
2013-10-18 03:40:11 PM

hitlersbrain: Fano: Well sure, with data collection the Stasi and KGB would have creamed themselves for, a communist dictatorship is even easier than ever. The Chinese may have perfected a commie/crony capitalism situation.

But we'll never know, because True Communism has never, and will never, be tried. Just like True Libertarianism.

Well, the forces you mention are the exact same people as the greedy rich in America. The rich are trying to pull the same stuff, just power hungry insanity. We currently have (or perhaps HAD) a system where greed was kept in check by the power of government. We called it Capitalism but it's really Regulated Capitalism. This is a system doomed to failure as the rich get richer and more powerful. They've already convinced a lot of gullible people that it's best to just let them run things without the regulation part. Then it's just back to a garbage society run by kings and queens until they go too far and get the deaths they deserve.

Something like Communism seems pretty inevitable.


No doubt about it.  But he is part right in the fact there there will be a Red Terror, much like there was a terror in France (a bourgeois revolution).  As workers step up and assert control there will be a backlash.  The proletariat will have to defend itself and the revolution and actively suppress bourgeois tenancies.  I'm ok with this.
 
2013-10-18 03:42:13 PM
The wealthy: If we put a good education out of the reach of most people, we'll have a never-ending source of cheap labor.
Brilliant!
 
2013-10-18 03:51:28 PM

cefm: In America, that is.  Being "low income" as young parents of a young child is not unusual or unexpected.  Young people are the ones having kids (they're fertile after all) and young people are unlikely to be fully established in their careers yet - they are much more likely to have lower incomes, even if they're on a good career trajectory.  Furthermore, having a young child can frequently mean reduced work hours for one or both parents or even one parent not in the workforce at all which really craters income.

In the rest of the civilized modern industrialized wealthy countries of the world, this is just normal, and there's no reason to believe that the child will be starving, unhealthy, uneducated or deprived access to the tools needed to grow up to be successful.  The parents either, for that matter.

It's only in America where we appear to hate poor people and kick them in the teeth at every turn that this is true.  Assistance for food, rent, education, childcare is pathetic.  If you're working poor and you have a kid, you're farked.  If you're in a good career but raising a kid by yourself you're pretty farked too for that matter.


Commie.

Don't you know that punishing poor people for being poor is the only way to help them?

It's in the bible:
Deuteronomy 15:11: For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, say, "fark those people. I got mine."

It's in the American version, not the socialist versions that talk about helping the poor by feeding and clothing them.
 
2013-10-18 03:53:52 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: Otto_E_Rodika: Then, sit back and act surprised that any of this surprises you.

What surprises me is your focus on black families receiving welfare, as if they're the only ones who do.


He mentioned illegal immigrants. Just what we need now, amnesty
 
2013-10-18 03:59:30 PM

jim32rr: He mentioned illegal immigrants. Just what we need now, amnesty


okay
 
2013-10-18 04:40:37 PM

FarkedOver: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: FarkedOver: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: No, I can't. And I suspect you can't either, or else you would have by now.

Haha, I certainly could but then you would give me some amateur Gordon Gecko like trite platitude, so what's the use?

It really seems like you're using every excuse possible as to why you aren't. Maybe you can explain how socialism would work in the 21st century but just want to keep it a secret all to yourself?

If you provided a sincere as reasonable explanation I wouldn't dismiss it. I'm asking because I'm genuinely curious as I am unable to imagine how it would work in modern society.

I think your hangup is that they aren't producing a tangible product.... I mean they are producing a service and they are putting labor into it.  Labor isn't just swinging a pick or working on an assembly line with machinery labor involves the brain as well, and that in and of itself can be labor.

Now, the means of production and workers control.  What is another word for the means of production? Capital! These workers can seize the capital from the capitalist.  Capital doesn't mean just money..... it's money and machines and the means of production all that good stuff.  The workers could take control of the building from the owner and run the workplace via democratic centralism.

There ya go.  Bon apetit


Alright, thanks or the reply. But I don't think a group of helpdesk employees are interested in storming a boardroom and taking control of the building. I just don't see that happening, or if it did, with the helpdesk folks successfully running the company.
 
2013-10-18 04:48:56 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Alright, thanks or the reply. But I don't think a group of helpdesk employees are interested in storming a boardroom and taking control of the building. I just don't see that happening, or if it did, with the helpdesk folks successfully running the company.


Certainly not.  They would not be the ones to start a revolution, eventually they would get swept up in the cause.
 
2013-10-18 04:51:13 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Alright, thanks or the reply. But I don't think a group of helpdesk employees are interested in storming a boardroom and taking control of the building. I just don't see that happening, or if it did, with the helpdesk folks successfully running the company.


Further, I will say that amongst the left there isn't enough done to reach out toward office employees. There is a disconnect between the office worker and a revolutionary class awakening.  I blame that mostly on leftist getting caught up in minutiae and petty sectarian squabbles.  Once the left figures out how to reach these workers, things could change rapidly.
 
2013-10-18 05:08:50 PM

lilbjorn: The wealthy: If we put a good education out of the reach of most people, we'll have a never-ending source of cheap labor.
Brilliant!


Yes, those wealthy bastards encouraging poor people to drop out of school.
 
2013-10-18 05:13:29 PM

DrewCurtisJr: lilbjorn: The wealthy: If we put a good education out of the reach of most people, we'll have a never-ending source of cheap labor.
Brilliant!

Yes, those wealthy bastards encouraging poor people to drop out of school.


More "forcing", or "creating the socioeconomic situations that most likely lead to that result" through things like denying cheap medical care or contraceptive services or not paying wages that blue-collar workers can live on.
 
2013-10-18 05:19:10 PM

obenchainr: More "forcing", or "creating the socioeconomic situations that most likely lead to that result" through things like denying cheap medical care or contraceptive services or not paying wages that blue-collar workers can live on.


All the more incentives to stay in school.
 
2013-10-18 05:21:44 PM

Into the blue again: Tom_Slick: I blame No Child Left Behind, public schools now teach to the test, their only concerns are attendance and the test.  Private schools (the good ones not the derpy creationist Christian schools) are actually still teaching like Public schools did 30 years ago, so if parents have the means and opportunity they are pulling their kids out.

Get rid of NCLB and maybe we can get some decent public schools again.

Or you could move to the north parts of the country. We aren't retarded.


I grew up and got my education in the northeast, yes you are.
 
2013-10-18 05:38:41 PM

meat0918: hitlersbrain: We have to wait for the one thing that seems to ever solves our problems... technology. I'm not sure why it is taking so long to integrate fun computer games kids will love to play into education. I imagine there is a lot of push back from the stale educational establishment that will keep insisting that education be tedious and horrible.

They exist, my kids use them

Starfall.com is awesome for learning the alphabet and learning to read.

They have some fun math games as well on other sites.


Thanks for the Starfall tip, have twin boys with severe dyslexia
 
2013-10-18 07:33:06 PM
If you are poor and you are having trouble surviving on your own, then DO NOT cum inside your girlfriend/wife or don't let anyone cum inside you if you're a woman. Raising a family without money is suicide. You can't blame anyone else if you suffer even more because you're having trouble dividing your already non-existent money among 3 or more people. Only start a family/cum inside someone/let someone cum inside you, after you have already planned out the future and you have a relatively safe financial standing.

Don't destroy your future or make it worse just because you need sex without contraceptives.
 
2013-10-18 08:42:37 PM
So they are legacies?
 
2013-10-18 08:45:26 PM

Yellow Beard: Koodz:

I wonder if we cut defense spending to only 25% of the budget and contented ourselves with only having the most expensive military in the world instead of the galaxy how much welfare and tax cuts we could afford...

While I agree we spend way too much on defense, I wonder what we would do with all of the people that would instantly become unemployed under your plan. Last I heard, about 3 million people work in defense related industries.


Unpossible. I have it on good authority that government doesn't create jobs.
 
2013-10-18 10:28:48 PM
 
2013-10-18 10:46:21 PM

jjorsett: Thunderpipes: Free housing, free phone, free food, free cash.... Why would anyone want to stop being poor? It is hard work.

I've long thought that we ought to try an experiment in some locale: in return for our supporting you, you have to come sit in a room for 40 hours a week. That's all you need to do, just be present. We'll treat it like a job where you get vacation and sick days and holidays, but you otherwise can't leave without getting docked on your "pay". I'll bet you'd see quite a drop in people applying for benefits.


Yes, great plan. Of course you'd have to allow all the single mothers to bring their kids, supply them with transportation to get to this "room" and on top of that pay for the room. In other words, it would be about as effective as Florida's drug tests for welfare recipients. It would cost the people who have jobs more money.

When did fiscal conservatives become retarded social conservatives who were all about screwing over people who they think are living the easy life on welfare? It's a damn good thing there are still enough intelligent people in most of America who are aware that ideas like this are so silly they'd end up costing us more.

If you aren't a resident of Florida, you should move their right away to be among the like minded.
 
2013-10-18 10:48:20 PM

OnlyM3: [upl.co image 660x513]


Aren't you one of the ones biatching about all the changes to healthcare?
 
2013-10-19 01:23:08 AM
Radical new idea: Don't have kids if you can't afford it.

Shocking, I know.
 
2013-10-19 07:52:58 AM

GameSprocket: The Muthaship: If only it was possible to not have kids you can't provide for.

So, since we have established the difficulty in moving up the social ladder, you are really saying that only those who are from good families should ever be able to reproduce? Maybe we can just sterilize the poor, but then we would only have one generation Wal-Mart employees. Can't have that!


img.fark.net
"I'm not saying do it. I'm saying run it through the computer, see if it would work"
 
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