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(The Atlantic)   Modern Poverty: Almost half of Public School students are now low-income ..... students from low-income families tend to end up parents of low-income families   (theatlantic.com) divider line 324
    More: Fail, income families, families tend, late-2000s recession, Texas District, poverty, families  
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3166 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Oct 2013 at 10:32 AM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-18 01:07:10 PM

BgJonson79: Zeb Hesselgresser: Thunderpipes: Free housing, free phone, free food, free cash.... Why would anyone want to stop being poor? It is hard work.

MOAR.  You can have more and better quality of these things if you get them yourself.  That's one perspective I've learned to see, thanks Fark.  Poor people aren't kicking back in the projects saying, "This, this is the life"   Poverty sucks.  And they know it.  Most of them aren't able to change their circumstances.

The question is, why can't they?  Supremely unlucky?  Poor decision making?  I really don't know, and that's why I'm asking.


Some people are continuously poor because of bad luck or decision making, I would never deny that, but more often it's because we live in a country where, like it or not, whether you have personal experience with it or not, white males are given more opportunities and "luck" than any other demographic.

Our country considers anyone dealing with a mental illness to be creepy and unreliable so they won't be given the same opportunities, particularly if you need to leave work occasionally for therapy or episodes of panic or depression.  Business don't want to or can't afford to employ the physically disabled.  People once marked as "the unwashed" (mentally ill, criminal record, drug or alcohol abuse) can never get rid of it and your past is a determining factor in your working future.  The factors that lead to a lifetime of poverty don't always have to do with bad behavior by the poor, no matter how much the Republican Party would like you to believe it.

We like to pride ourselves here in America on how anyone can accomplish anything if they put their mind to it, and how you can always make a change and hear that happy music at the end of an episode of Intervention, but employers are always going to take the easiest, smoothest road, as they can no longer afford to take chances on people with struggles in their past or people who pose even the slightest risk in the future.
 
2013-10-18 01:10:46 PM

mediablitz: 30 years of stagnant wages, combined with rising costs. The top 1% controlling more wealth than any time in our nation's history. An economy designed to create service workers.

Are we supposed to be surprised that people are stuck in poverty?


Not at all. The system is working as intended.
 
2013-10-18 01:11:09 PM
I'm sure telling the poor folk that they are stuck in poverty really helps them. I used to be poor. Now, I'm slightly better than poor. I can understand the need to fight social injustices, but it is even more important not to wallow. You can change yourself much easier than you can change the farking system.
 
2013-10-18 01:11:35 PM

FarkedOver: BgJonson79: I'm a fairly stalwart Libertarian, and even I can't figure out how society can exist without government. Care to give me a Reader's Digest example?

I had this whole long written thing and I deleted it.  I thought to myself, wait a minute! I don't need to reinvent the wheel! Read the communist manifesto by marx/engles and I would read Principals of Communism by Engles.  Both are fairly short.  Engles is much much easier to read and is very plain spoken.

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ in dex.htm

Further reading which is a bit longer, but still very interesting is The State and Revolution by Lenin

http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/


I think that'd take a lot of human nature changes.  Or Star Trek-level physics changes, where resources are infinite because energy is.
 
2013-10-18 01:11:54 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: Otto_E_Rodika: Well, you can continue to ignore facts, but reality is that 40% of blacks live in poverty.

And the same amount of whites receive welfare, which is what your original statement was about.

Government dependency is a myth. 87% of the households receiving SNAP in any given month include an individual who worked in the prior year or will work in the following year.


What's the weather like in your reality?

http://www.npc.umich.edu/poverty/

Here in ours, 12% of whites (non-Hispanic) live in poverty.  Blacks collect 40% of the welfare, but make up only 13% of the population, so when you compare that number to whites, you have to factor in how much of the US population is defined as white (non-Hispanic), which is currently 63%.  So in simple terms, you invite 100 people to a party, where you are serving 100 cheeseburgers.  13 black people eat 40 cheeseburgers.  And 63 white people eat 40 cheeseburgers.  So both the black and white people are eating the same number of cheeseburgers, but each individual black person is eating 3 cheeseburgers while each white person is eating just a little over half a cheeseburger.

Not that hard, is it?
 
2013-10-18 01:14:31 PM

mediablitz: 30 years of stagnant wages, combined with rising costs. The top 1% controlling more wealth than any time in our nation's history. An economy designed to create service workers.

Are we supposed to be surprised that people are stuck in poverty?


Add in the fact that having children is a far too expensive proposition for the average american.

Day care costs about as a much as a college education and easy 10k a year per child, so parents are stuck with either having one of them stay home or shelling out the cash. Add in healthcare issues, job stagnation, 6-weeks UNPAID leave maximum time off for a new mom, it's simply not worth it.

Hell, even the trashiest dumbest people I know are only having 1 or 2 kids, and that's saying something.

Among my family, the only cousin of mine that ISN'T barely scrapping by because of having kids is only able to make it work because her Mom provides free babysitting and money assistance (I don't think her Dad is EVER going to retire, I know he paid for her wedding and I'm pretty sure he bought their house or at least gave them the down payment).

I'm so happy to be living in Canada now, I get 80% of my income for a year when I have a kid which goes a long way to reducing costs (For fark independents, my company doesn't pay the salary, it comes out of employment insurance).
 
2013-10-18 01:14:33 PM

BgJonson79: I think that'd take a lot of human nature changes. Or Star Trek-level physics changes, where resources are infinite because energy is.


Not really.  That's usually the cop-out people give, "human nature".  Yes humans have the ability to be greedy.  We also have the ability to be cooperative, caring and compassionate.

The best way to describe human nature is:  the way a human being adapts to different social circumstances.
 
2013-10-18 01:15:59 PM

Otto_E_Rodika: What's the weather like in your reality?


None of what you posted after this disputes what I posted about dependency. Government dependency is a myth.
 
2013-10-18 01:18:32 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: Otto_E_Rodika: What's the weather like in your reality?

None of what you posted after this disputes what I posted about dependency. Government dependency is a myth.


Translation - "facts suck".
 
2013-10-18 01:18:49 PM
And as the threshold for being considered "low income" has expanded, so has the purchasing power of that income. So there's that.
 
2013-10-18 01:18:54 PM

Otto_E_Rodika: Here in ours, 12% of whites (non-Hispanic) live in poverty.


And this number comes from the Children Under 18 chart. And those are 2010 numbers.


Welfare Demographics
Percent of recipients who are white 38.8 %
Percent of recipients who are black 39.8 %
Percent of recipients who are Hispanic 15.7 %
Percent of recipients who are Asian 2.4 %
Percent of recipients who are Other 3.3 %
Research Date: 9.10.2013

None of the above proves dependency, as you claimed.
 
2013-10-18 01:20:13 PM

Otto_E_Rodika: Translation - "facts suck".


What facts? You said poor black people are dependent on government. This isn't true simply because you say so.
 
2013-10-18 01:23:39 PM

snocone: bearcats1983: This is definitely a sad situation, but I still think some of the blame needs to go on the impoverished who continue the cycle from generation to generation. My family was incredibly low income when I was a kid, but my parents busted their arses at work (mom at pizza hut and the phone company, dad as a night shift pharm tech), went to school part time, and eventually got us out of the poverty hole. It took years and hundreds of "pancakes for dinner" type meals, but the cycle can definitely be broken.

Not by the people stuck in it. Room to move comes from above.


Really? Sounds like bearcats' family did it.....so did my parents, so did my husband, so do lots of people every day. People who want the change and are willing to work to effect the change....
 
2013-10-18 01:25:56 PM
Can I say BS on this from the rent a tire article?

"The tires on their Chevy Silverado were in terrible shape, too dangerous to be used for the long drive to his new job as an industrial painter. But they were such an odd size that the cheapest replacement set cost $1,340 at a regular tire store, far beyond Collins' budget. "

Really 300+ per tire?  Anyone know what size they are talking about?
 
2013-10-18 01:26:11 PM

FarkedOver: BgJonson79: I think that'd take a lot of human nature changes. Or Star Trek-level physics changes, where resources are infinite because energy is.

Not really.  That's usually the cop-out people give, "human nature".  Yes humans have the ability to be greedy.  We also have the ability to be cooperative, caring and compassionate.

The best way to describe human nature is:  the way a human being adapts to different social circumstances.


Can we be cooperative, caring and compassionate enough with limited resources?
 
2013-10-18 01:27:57 PM

BgJonson79: FarkedOver: BgJonson79: I think that'd take a lot of human nature changes. Or Star Trek-level physics changes, where resources are infinite because energy is.

Not really.  That's usually the cop-out people give, "human nature".  Yes humans have the ability to be greedy.  We also have the ability to be cooperative, caring and compassionate.

The best way to describe human nature is:  the way a human being adapts to different social circumstances.

Can we be cooperative, caring and compassionate enough with limited resources?


That is the time when we should be most cooperative.
 
2013-10-18 01:37:32 PM

BgJonson79: Dusk-You-n-Me: cefm: It's only in America where we appear to hate poor people and kick them in the teeth at every turn that this is true.

Reciprocal altruism implies that voters will dislike giving money to the poor if, as in the United States, the poor are perceived as lazy. In contrast, Europeans overwhelmingly believe that the poor are poor because they have been unfortunate. This difference in views is part of what is sometimes referred to as "American exceptionalism." Link

I've been trying to figure out for a while now how to have a meritocracy without punishing those who are unlucky.  I haven't gotten very far.


Are they unlucky, or do they just make poor choices? I work in healthcare so I see a lot of really poor life choices, but very few truly unlucky folks who just got stuck in a bad situation. Many of the people I see made bad decisions--not one or two, but a lifetime's worth of bad decisions. Some of them made the same choices repeatedly as if they expected a different outcome. A lot of these people are ignorant, but not dumb. Ignorance is curable, and I think that would help them make better choices or change their luck, however you want to look at that. So now we are back at education again.
 
2013-10-18 01:38:27 PM

FarkedOver: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: FarkedOver: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: You really expect an IT helpdesk associate whose job is to troubleshoot software for a financial consultant at a telecom company to "control the means of production"? The production of what? And how would they control it?

Socialism is not just for industrial workers.  It's for all workers of all countries every where.  The product is the software.  The software, like machines, needs repairs and needs people who understand it and how to operate it.  Your lack of vision in how to incorporate office workers within a socialist system is not my problem, but your own short sightedness.

IT helpdesk workers typically don't produce software.

And somehow your inability to flesh out the system you're advocating beyond trite platitudes is my problem? Yeah, no. You sound like an undergrad who just took a comparative econ class and thinks he can solve the worlds financial crisis.

Don't worry, you'll eventually get a job one day and forget all about Mr. Engels.

So their expertise in troubleshooting and understanding the software excludes them from socialism? They're not really "workers", I mean I don't get what you're trying to say....

but no matter what I say at this point it will be a "trite platitude", and you'll just dismiss it offhand.


You've been unable to sufficiently express how a socialist model would work in the 21st century. The only thing I've dismissed offhand is your oversimplified generalizations that apply to industrial-era society.

In what way is a tech support employee supposed to control the means of production? How would they do that? What would happen to the person who owns the company, and the people who own stock in the company? What if a group of tech students want to start their own company and hire employees?

You're the one postulating an international socialist economy, so you get to explain how it would work in a real world level.
 
2013-10-18 01:40:46 PM

Deedeemarz: Are they unlucky, or do they just make poor choices? I work in healthcare so I see a lot of really poor life choices, but very few truly unlucky folks who just got stuck in a bad situation. Many of the people I see made bad decisions--not one or two, but a lifetime's worth of bad decisions. Some of them made the same choices repeatedly as if they expected a different outcome. A lot of these people are ignorant, but not dumb. Ignorance is curable, and I think that would help them make better choices or change their luck, however you want to look at that. So now we are back at education again.


So 50% of our population are lazy and stupid is what you are saying?  Not that we have had a retardedly low minimum wage for years, horrible wage stagnation for middle to lower incomed families, and a whole government party that their only plan is to widen the gap between poor and rich.
 
2013-10-18 01:42:48 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: You've been unable to sufficiently express how a socialist model would work in the 21st century. The only thing I've dismissed offhand is your oversimplified generalizations that apply to industrial-era society.

In what way is a tech support employee supposed to control the means of production? How would they do that? What would happen to the person who owns the company, and the people who own stock in the company? What if a group of tech students want to start their own company and hire employees?

You're the one postulating an international socialist economy, so you get to explain how it would work in a real world level.


You've been dickish to me.  My turn.  You really can't critically think of a way to apply Marxism to the 21st century workforce without having me spell it out for you?
 
2013-10-18 01:45:17 PM

FarkedOver: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: You've been unable to sufficiently express how a socialist model would work in the 21st century. The only thing I've dismissed offhand is your oversimplified generalizations that apply to industrial-era society.

In what way is a tech support employee supposed to control the means of production? How would they do that? What would happen to the person who owns the company, and the people who own stock in the company? What if a group of tech students want to start their own company and hire employees?

You're the one postulating an international socialist economy, so you get to explain how it would work in a real world level.

You've been dickish to me.  My turn.  You really can't critically think of a way to apply Marxism to the 21st century workforce without having me spell it out for you?


No, I can't. And I suspect you can't either, or else you would have by now.
 
2013-10-18 01:45:27 PM

TNel: Not that we have had a retardedly low minimum wage for years, horrible wage stagnation for middle to lower incomed families, and a whole government party that their only plan is to widen the gap between poor and rich.


It's so much easier just to blame people without considering anything external to their circumstance. And welfare is a double whammy because, as we've seen in this very thread, it feeds that racial resentment that the RW has been stirring for decades.
 
2013-10-18 01:46:43 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: No, I can't. And I suspect you can't either, or else you would have by now.


Haha, I certainly could but then you would give me some amateur Gordon Gecko like trite platitude, so what's the use?
 
2013-10-18 01:47:58 PM

mediablitz: 30 years of stagnant wages, combined with rising costs. The top 1% controlling more wealth than any time in our nation's history. An economy designed to create service workers.

Are we supposed to be surprised that people are stuck in poverty?


Reagan and Thatcher. What a great team they were.
 
2013-10-18 01:48:19 PM

whatshisname: mediablitz: 30 years of stagnant wages, combined with rising costs. The top 1% controlling more wealth than any time in our nation's history. An economy designed to create service workers.

Are we supposed to be surprised that people are stuck in poverty?

Reagan and Thatcher. What a great team they were.


Only the good die young.
 
2013-10-18 01:48:24 PM

Tom_Slick: DrewCurtisJr: Tom_Slick: Get rid of NCLB and maybe we can get some decent public schools again.

What? The reason we have NCLB is because the public schools weren't doing well, especially with low income students.

It was a good idea, but it didn't work. Look to Atlanta Public Schools.  Funding is tied up with that test so bad schools only teach the kids to pass the test.  So what we end up with is a bunch of kids who spend 12 years only learning how to take standardized tests.


All this talk about teaching the test always left me wondering, do people know in advance what the questions are? If they don't then the students would still need to learn all the info and be able to draw conclusions from said info. If they do, who the fark thought that was a good idea?
 
2013-10-18 01:50:21 PM
Oh so this is where all the Fark cons are hanging out today! I know a good, old fashioned poor hate thread is just what you need to get back on your feet again.
 
2013-10-18 01:53:01 PM

uber humper: [www.betterthanpants.com image 704x272] If all you do is hope, you won't see any change


How about instead of hoping for a wage increases, we change the law and force employers to pay Americans a living minimum wage?
 
2013-10-18 01:53:48 PM

verbaltoxin: Oh so this is where all the Fark cons are hanging out today! I know a good, old fashioned poor hate thread is just what you need to get back on your feet again.


Haven't you read the thread? A lot of it is how to create another communist utopia without an instruction manual.
 
2013-10-18 01:53:55 PM

Deedeemarz: BgJonson79: Dusk-You-n-Me: cefm: It's only in America where we appear to hate poor people and kick them in the teeth at every turn that this is true.

Reciprocal altruism implies that voters will dislike giving money to the poor if, as in the United States, the poor are perceived as lazy. In contrast, Europeans overwhelmingly believe that the poor are poor because they have been unfortunate. This difference in views is part of what is sometimes referred to as "American exceptionalism." Link

I've been trying to figure out for a while now how to have a meritocracy without punishing those who are unlucky.  I haven't gotten very far.

Are they unlucky, or do they just make poor choices? I work in healthcare so I see a lot of really poor life choices, but very few truly unlucky folks who just got stuck in a bad situation. Many of the people I see made bad decisions--not one or two, but a lifetime's worth of bad decisions. Some of them made the same choices repeatedly as if they expected a different outcome. A lot of these people are ignorant, but not dumb. Ignorance is curable, and I think that would help them make better choices or change their luck, however you want to look at that. So now we are back at education again.


Here's the thing, though: what do you call it if you've never been taught how to make good choices?  Isn't that luck (e.g, lucky enough to have parents who know or to go to a school that actually cares about teaching rather than testing)?

Upward mobility in America is pretty low.  The single biggest predictor for success in education is family income - and education predicts future income.  It's a cycle that can only be broken in extraordinary circumstances.  If you've never been taught why x choice is good and y choice is bad, it's unreasonable to hold you accountable for choosing y instead of x.
 
2013-10-18 01:55:33 PM

FarkedOver: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: No, I can't. And I suspect you can't either, or else you would have by now.

Haha, I certainly could but then you would give me some amateur Gordon Gecko like trite platitude, so what's the use?


It really seems like you're using every excuse possible as to why you aren't. Maybe you can explain how socialism would work in the 21st century but just want to keep it a secret all to yourself?

If you provided a sincere as reasonable explanation I wouldn't dismiss it. I'm asking because I'm genuinely curious as I am unable to imagine how it would work in modern society.
 
2013-10-18 01:56:43 PM
www.examiner.com
 
2013-10-18 02:02:09 PM

pkellmey: verbaltoxin: Oh so this is where all the Fark cons are hanging out today! I know a good, old fashioned poor hate thread is just what you need to get back on your feet again.

Haven't you read the thread? A lot of it is how to create another communist utopia without an instruction manual.


that's all 1 dude... that said it is nice to see someone as far left as the derpers responding to him are to the right.
 
2013-10-18 02:13:52 PM

Deedeemarz: snocone: bearcats1983: This is definitely a sad situation, but I still think some of the blame needs to go on the impoverished who continue the cycle from generation to generation. My family was incredibly low income when I was a kid, but my parents busted their arses at work (mom at pizza hut and the phone company, dad as a night shift pharm tech), went to school part time, and eventually got us out of the poverty hole. It took years and hundreds of "pancakes for dinner" type meals, but the cycle can definitely be broken.

Not by the people stuck in it. Room to move comes from above.

Really? Sounds like bearcats' family did it.....so did my parents, so did my husband, so do lots of people every day. People who want the change and are willing to work to effect the change....


That's right.  There's NO outside circumstance or situation that could negatively affect your go get 'em attitude!  Oh, unless you're disabled.  Or black, or a woman with children, or have a criminal record, or a substance abuse problem.  Other than that...all you need is a happy attitude and a good pair of bootstraps and you can be as judgemental and white as everyone in this thread!
 
2013-10-18 02:14:09 PM

FarkedOver: BgJonson79: How does that work with local choice and national sovereignty?

ummm you don't understand the end goal of communism, do you?


The death of all the kulaks?
 
2013-10-18 02:14:46 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: FarkedOver: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: No, I can't. And I suspect you can't either, or else you would have by now.

Haha, I certainly could but then you would give me some amateur Gordon Gecko like trite platitude, so what's the use?

It really seems like you're using every excuse possible as to why you aren't. Maybe you can explain how socialism would work in the 21st century but just want to keep it a secret all to yourself?

If you provided a sincere as reasonable explanation I wouldn't dismiss it. I'm asking because I'm genuinely curious as I am unable to imagine how it would work in modern society.


I think your hangup is that they aren't producing a tangible product.... I mean they are producing a service and they are putting labor into it.  Labor isn't just swinging a pick or working on an assembly line with machinery labor involves the brain as well, and that in and of itself can be labor.

Now, the means of production and workers control.  What is another word for the means of production? Capital! These workers can seize the capital from the capitalist.  Capital doesn't mean just money..... it's money and machines and the means of production all that good stuff.  The workers could take control of the building from the owner and run the workplace via democratic centralism.

There ya go.  Bon apetit
 
2013-10-18 02:15:23 PM

Fano: FarkedOver: BgJonson79: How does that work with local choice and national sovereignty?

ummm you don't understand the end goal of communism, do you?

The death of all the kulaks?


Were you born retarded or do you have to work at it?
 
2013-10-18 02:18:04 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: FarkedOver: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: FarkedOver: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: You really expect an IT helpdesk associate whose job is to troubleshoot software for a financial consultant at a telecom company to "control the means of production"? The production of what? And how would they control it?

Socialism is not just for industrial workers.  It's for all workers of all countries every where.  The product is the software.  The software, like machines, needs repairs and needs people who understand it and how to operate it.  Your lack of vision in how to incorporate office workers within a socialist system is not my problem, but your own short sightedness.

IT helpdesk workers typically don't produce software.

And somehow your inability to flesh out the system you're advocating beyond trite platitudes is my problem? Yeah, no. You sound like an undergrad who just took a comparative econ class and thinks he can solve the worlds financial crisis.

Don't worry, you'll eventually get a job one day and forget all about Mr. Engels.

So their expertise in troubleshooting and understanding the software excludes them from socialism? They're not really "workers", I mean I don't get what you're trying to say....

but no matter what I say at this point it will be a "trite platitude", and you'll just dismiss it offhand.

You've been unable to sufficiently express how a socialist model would work in the 21st century. The only thing I've dismissed offhand is your oversimplified generalizations that apply to industrial-era society.

In what way is a tech support employee supposed to control the means of production? How would they do that? What would happen to the person who owns the company, and the people who own stock in the company? What if a group of tech students want to start their own company and hire employees?

You're the one postulating an international socialist economy, so you get to explain how it would work in a real world level.


It works like the Fiddlers Green region of the Big Rock Candy Mountains,in the Kingdom/anarchist syndicate commune of Prester John.
 
2013-10-18 02:25:24 PM

2xcited: Hey waity a minute, did not LBJ and the Democrats say that spending on the Great Society, and declaring "War on Poverty," would eliminate this problem!  Sixteen trillion later I am still reading articles like this and listening to ads about one in eight children are hungry.  Holy Shiat and now we turned over Healthcare to these Bozo's.


While it hasn't been a complete success, the war on poverty has reduced hunger and malnutrition (obesity is a problem among the poor now, this has never happened in history) and reduced violence (along with unleaded gasoline and abortion), and increased intelligence (along with unleaded gasoline)

If we had universal healthcare, the poverty rolls would be drastically reduced in a generation. Medical bills are the number one reason for bankruptcy, too many middle-class families lose everything when someone gets sick. My brother was born handicapped and my Dad lost his medical practice and his health as a result. This resulted in many years of poverty that my parents are just crawling out of, the school lunch program and social security was a godsend for us.
 
2013-10-18 02:27:41 PM
I think what it boils down to for a lot of Farkers is that by assigning a negative characterization to those who live in poverty (e.g. they're all drug addicts, they're all lazy, they're all abusing the system, they're all irresponsible jagwads) then we can dismiss them as getting the life they deserve, rather than having to expend any kind of energy, mental or otherwise in an effort to help them out of their poverty via hiring them, volunteering time for something like Habitat for Humanity or, God forbid, paying a couple dollars more in tax to pay for subsidized daycare, healthcare, safe schooling for children and adults.

I have a good friend who is a research scientist working on treatments and possibly cures for lung cancer.  Unfortunately, she's found that it's one of the least funded and publicized cancers.  The work to get an ongoing grant for lung cancer is fifty times harder than a grant for breast cancer, because in their minds, the public has decided "People who get lung cancer must have been smokers and so they deserve this punishment".

We're so focused on punishing those who violate our sunshiny view of life that those who truly need our help because life just dealt them the shiattiest hand possible slip through the cracks.  Personally, if some of my tax dollars go to help a young widow with three children and no family to help, who needs a place to live and a better education to get a higher paying job, then I'm willing to let the ever elusive 'welfare queen' who dares to buy an air conditioner with her check get by without a public lashing.  Why are we so concerned with the perpetually poor getting a few extra pennies when the billionaires are fleecing the entire country by the second every day?
 
2013-10-18 02:28:06 PM

uber humper: FarkedOver: This should be at every school:

[i1.wp.com image 500x714]

If you believe that shiat, you've bought yourself a wasted life.  If you want to help society, learn some skills and pitch into the economy --  otherwise, you're a drag


Yes, overcome a poor education with no money and go to college (again with no money) to get a job where you'll make less and less money every year while a few people keep raking in more and more and use that money to make sure you stay down where you belong.

True communism has not happened yet but it is kind of inevitable.
 
2013-10-18 02:38:14 PM

patrick767: If we'd stop using mostly local funding for public schools, we'd go a long way toward solving our horribly inequitable public school system. Of course I doubt that will ever happen in most states. The suburbanites with the money have power and a vested interest in making sure their kids have the best funded public schools (if they don't send their kids to private schools). Fark those poor people in the inner city.


While I do agree with this, another farker mentioned to me that her school district and the PTA association does a huge drive to parents for "a charitable contribution of $1,000 per child". They apparently had a 90% donation rate from parents. I'm willing to bet school districts would turn to tatics like this.

IMHO, we need to knock down walls and amalgamate school districts, get rid of overhead costs and the crapton of "admins" that have taken over education, both public and college.
 
2013-10-18 02:45:02 PM

hitlersbrain: uber humper: FarkedOver: This should be at every school:

[i1.wp.com image 500x714]

If you believe that shiat, you've bought yourself a wasted life.  If you want to help society, learn some skills and pitch into the economy --  otherwise, you're a drag

Yes, overcome a poor education with no money and go to college (again with no money) to get a job where you'll make less and less money every year while a few people keep raking in more and more and use that money to make sure you stay down where you belong.

True communism has not happened yet but it is kind of inevitable.


Repeats of the French Revolution are inevitable. True Communism still has to solve that pesky step 2 underpants gnome problem that leads to the State withering away with everyone happy and equal.
 
2013-10-18 02:49:18 PM

Fano: Repeats of the French Revolution are inevitable. True Communism still has to solve that pesky step 2 underpants gnome problem that leads to the State withering away with everyone happy and equal.


Each statement you make about communism shows just how ignorant you truly are about it.  It's quite impressive.
 
2013-10-18 02:52:50 PM

teenytinycornteeth: Deedeemarz: snocone: bearcats1983: This is definitely a sad situation, but I still think some of the blame needs to go on the impoverished who continue the cycle from generation to generation. My family was incredibly low income when I was a kid, but my parents busted their arses at work (mom at pizza hut and the phone company, dad as a night shift pharm tech), went to school part time, and eventually got us out of the poverty hole. It took years and hundreds of "pancakes for dinner" type meals, but the cycle can definitely be broken.

Not by the people stuck in it. Room to move comes from above.

Really? Sounds like bearcats' family did it.....so did my parents, so did my husband, so do lots of people every day. People who want the change and are willing to work to effect the change....

That's right.  There's NO outside circumstance or situation that could negatively affect your go get 'em attitude!  Oh, unless you're disabled.  Or black, or a woman with children, or have a criminal record, or a substance abuse problem.  Other than that...all you need is a happy attitude and a good pair of bootstraps and you can be as judgemental and white as everyone in this thread!


"Look what I built, all by myself"!
Or, you could go all Duck Dynasty and blame good luck.
So comforting to know you can still count on a li'l chump change to keep 'em barefoot 'n pregnant, filled with Hope and Change.
 
2013-10-18 02:53:06 PM

teenytinycornteeth: I think what it boils down to for a lot of Farkers is that by assigning a negative characterization to those who live in poverty (e.g. they're all drug addicts, they're all lazy, they're all abusing the system, they're all irresponsible jagwads) then we can dismiss them as getting the life they deserve, rather than having to expend any kind of energy, mental or otherwise in an effort to help them out of their poverty via hiring them, volunteering time for something like Habitat for Humanity or, God forbid, paying a couple dollars more in tax to pay for subsidized daycare, healthcare, safe schooling for children and adults.

I have a good friend who is a research scientist working on treatments and possibly cures for lung cancer.  Unfortunately, she's found that it's one of the least funded and publicized cancers.  The work to get an ongoing grant for lung cancer is fifty times harder than a grant for breast cancer, because in their minds, the public has decided "People who get lung cancer must have been smokers and so they deserve this punishment".

We're so focused on punishing those who violate our sunshiny view of life that those who truly need our help because life just dealt them the shiattiest hand possible slip through the cracks.  Personally, if some of my tax dollars go to help a young widow with three children and no family to help, who needs a place to live and a better education to get a higher paying job, then I'm willing to let the ever elusive 'welfare queen' who dares to buy an air conditioner with her check get by without a public lashing.  Why are we so concerned with the perpetually poor getting a few extra pennies when the billionaires are fleecing the entire country by the second every day?


Well said.
 
2013-10-18 02:56:55 PM

shifty lookin bleeder: [i1.ytimg.com image 850x478]


At least Lacey is in there.
 
2013-10-18 02:59:58 PM

Fano: hitlersbrain: uber humper: FarkedOver: This should be at every school:

[i1.wp.com image 500x714]

If you believe that shiat, you've bought yourself a wasted life.  If you want to help society, learn some skills and pitch into the economy --  otherwise, you're a drag

Yes, overcome a poor education with no money and go to college (again with no money) to get a job where you'll make less and less money every year while a few people keep raking in more and more and use that money to make sure you stay down where you belong.

True communism has not happened yet but it is kind of inevitable.

Repeats of the French Revolution are inevitable. True Communism still has to solve that pesky step 2 underpants gnome problem that leads to the State withering away with everyone happy and equal.


Managing complex systems fairly? Technology... always to our rescue. It's really humanity's only trick. What's kind of funny is that it's development is being financed by people with money to replace our labor with machines to save a few pennies. With the proper motivation and attitude, Communism is probably possible today.
 
2013-10-18 03:05:41 PM

hitlersbrain: Fano: hitlersbrain: uber humper: FarkedOver: This should be at every school:

[i1.wp.com image 500x714]

If you believe that shiat, you've bought yourself a wasted life.  If you want to help society, learn some skills and pitch into the economy --  otherwise, you're a drag

Yes, overcome a poor education with no money and go to college (again with no money) to get a job where you'll make less and less money every year while a few people keep raking in more and more and use that money to make sure you stay down where you belong.

True communism has not happened yet but it is kind of inevitable.

Repeats of the French Revolution are inevitable. True Communism still has to solve that pesky step 2 underpants gnome problem that leads to the State withering away with everyone happy and equal.

Managing complex systems fairly? Technology... always to our rescue. It's really humanity's only trick. What's kind of funny is that it's development is being financed by people with money to replace our labor with machines to save a few pennies. With the proper motivation and attitude, Communism is probably possible today.


Well sure, with data collection the Stasi and KGB would have creamed themselves for, a communist dictatorship is even easier than ever. The Chinese may have perfected a commie/crony capitalism situation.

But we'll never know, because True Communism has never, and will never, be tried. Just like True Libertarianism.
 
2013-10-18 03:14:19 PM

Otto_E_Rodika: Hmmm... introduce the welfare state that destroys the traditional African-American family and replaces it with dependent single-mothers and an endless string of children abandoned by their fathers, who then perpetuate that lifestyle while (understandably) committing a disportionate amount of crime.  Import poverty with an open-border policy that allows millions of illiterate migrants who are only qualified to perform manual labor into the country, where they work in the black economy that doesn't contribute to the tax-base while they obtain services from the government, such as healthcare and education for the children, thereby lowering the standard of such services for everyone as more people take from the system than put into it.  Then create policies that encourage traditional middle-class jobs such as manufacturing to be transferred overseas because of tax-breaks, less regulations and lower labor costs.

Result: an expanding, dependent and increasingly sense of entitled, lower-class.  Then, sit back and act surprised that any of this surprises you.



It seems obvious to a few of us.
 
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