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(The Atlantic)   Modern Poverty: Almost half of Public School students are now low-income ..... students from low-income families tend to end up parents of low-income families   ( theatlantic.com) divider line
    More: Fail, income families, families tend, late-2000s recession, Texas District, poverty, families  
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3200 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Oct 2013 at 10:32 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-18 12:14:12 PM  

brantgoose: It is. It's done. The natural rate of increase in America is barely above replacement level. Replacement level is the lowest level which will maintain the population and also replace the workers with new workers. Drop below that level and you get "negative growth". This is bad for the economy except perhaps in the thinking of the more radical environmentalists, who welcome the prospect of the human race shrinking and doing less damage to the world through unsustainable growth and consumption.


Zero-to-negative population growth is the future.  Japan world.  Places like Turkey, Brazil, and Mexico are already at replacement-level fertility.  The US is an outlier among major western democracies for still having a near-replacement birth rate.

That die is already cast. Humanity will be under 10 billion, within the lifetime of many people reading today.  We aren't going to keep skimming off the growth fundamentally based on underlying 2% annual population growth (which is what we did in the 19th and 20th centuries). Nor could we, environmentally, forever and ever.

 If 'economics' can't handle steady-state solutions, we have to rewrite 'economics'.
 
2013-10-18 12:14:29 PM  
The article mentions that the qualifier for "low income schools" was tied to the number of kids receiving reduced cost lunches.  To qualify for the reduced cost lunch programs, your income is compared to 185% of the national poverty line.  Cost of living should be a factor.

The cost of living in some states is much less than that of others.  $41,000 in rural Arkansas may be a lot more comfortable than $65000 in California.
 
2013-10-18 12:16:26 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: You really expect an IT helpdesk associate whose job is to troubleshoot software for a financial consultant at a telecom company to "control the means of production"? The production of what? And how would they control it?


Socialism is not just for industrial workers.  It's for all workers of all countries every where.  The product is the software.  The software, like machines, needs repairs and needs people who understand it and how to operate it.  Your lack of vision in how to incorporate office workers within a socialist system is not my problem, but your own short sightedness.
 
2013-10-18 12:16:34 PM  
We sent our daughter to public school for kindergarten and first grade. My wife took a job as a substitute teacher at the same school. The behavior and discipline problems she saw starting in third grade and continuing on up to fifth grade convinced us to home school.

Sorry, but public schools are becoming a dumping ground for dysfunctional children. The competent children get ignored while the teacher tries to get hellions to pass the standardized tests. I'm really sorry I pulled my well-behaved, fairly bright, pleasant child out of public school. But as her parent my responsibility is to provide HER with the best education I can - and that was never going to happen in a public school. Private school was a little out of our reach financially, so we went with home school. So far its working out great.
 
2013-10-18 12:20:22 PM  

FarkedOver: Oh, ok. You volunteer to create a product from start to finish for someone who has completely emancipated themselves from labor. After you finish the product you have no choice in what happens to that product. Your employer sells that product and pays you a mere fraction of the total worth of the said product, even though you have created its entire value.

We volunteer for this because it is fair, right and just? No, we volunteer for this because we have no choice BUT to do this in order to live.



Your employer paid you, up front, out of savings, long before he ever connected with the buyer and got paid by him.  The employer therefore took the risk that you would make an un-sell-able product, or that the market price for the product would fall below the various costs of producing it (your wages, plus everything else that goes into the cost of running a business).  He takes the primary risk of paying all of those up-front costs, including employee wages, while the revenue generated from customers could be less than predicted.  It's called "making payroll" even when there's a temporary dip in revenue.

The employer also performs a lot of essential functions to sustain the enterprise, even if he does no direct labor in the manufacture of this hypothetical "product" you're thinking of.  He must, for starters, analyze the market for the product, and the markets for all of the factors of production he'll need to pay for in order to produce it (real estate, labor, suppliers, marketing, and all the rest), and identify the type of good that can be sold at a profit (i.e., not at a loss, costing more than it takes to make it).  In other words, the employer must identify an unmet (or undermet) consumer demand, which can be met more efficiently than others are attempting to meet it.  If you think you can do that, please give it a shot.

The employer has also marshaled all of the factors of production (the real estate, labor, suppliers, marketing, and all the rest), and coordinated them all into the production of some good.

He has made a connection with a buyer, and hopefully more than one, so that he can keep on selling these goods indefinitely.

He has adapted his mode of production whenever the identity of the good sold, or the way in which it's made, or any other of about 1,000 other things that go into the production of desired goods, as circumstances change (and they change constantly).

If the employer can perform all of these tasks well (and in larger enterprises, they are divided up among various specialists), then he gets paid, last.

The way he gets paid from the business is called "profit."  It's the portion of the revenue that's left over after everyone else gets paid for their contribution to the enterprise.

Employers who are better at these tasks than others tend to make more money, just like the people who are better at their specialized tasks tend to make more money.

Since you have clearly started and run zero businesses in your lifetime, you do not understand what goes into making a successful one.  The making of the actual good is only one of the essential elements.
 
2013-10-18 12:21:18 PM  
Hmmm... introduce the welfare state that destroys the traditional African-American family and replaces it with dependent single-mothers and an endless string of children abandoned by their fathers, who then perpetuate that lifestyle while (understandably) committing a disportionate amount of crime.  Import poverty with an open-border policy that allows millions of illiterate migrants who are only qualified to perform manual labor into the country, where they work in the black economy that doesn't contribute to the tax-base while they obtain services from the government, such as healthcare and education for the children, thereby lowering the standard of such services for everyone as more people take from the system than put into it.  Then create policies that encourage traditional middle-class jobs such as manufacturing to be transferred overseas because of tax-breaks, less regulations and lower labor costs.

Result: an expanding, dependent and increasingly sense of entitled, lower-class.  Then, sit back and act surprised that any of this surprises you.
 
2013-10-18 12:23:01 PM  

FarkedOver: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: You really expect an IT helpdesk associate whose job is to troubleshoot software for a financial consultant at a telecom company to "control the means of production"? The production of what? And how would they control it?

Socialism is not just for industrial workers.  It's for all workers of all countries every where.  The product is the software.  The software, like machines, needs repairs and needs people who understand it and how to operate it.  Your lack of vision in how to incorporate office workers within a socialist system is not my problem, but your own short sightedness.


You're just as smart as Lenin, I'll give you that.
 
2013-10-18 12:23:39 PM  

Phinn: Your employer paid you, up front, out of savings, long before he ever connected with the buyer and got paid by him. The employer therefore took the risk that you would make an un-sell-able product, or that the market price for the product would fall below the various costs of producing it (your wages, plus everything else that goes into the cost of running a business). He takes the primary risk of paying all of those up-front costs, including employee wages, while the revenue generated from customers could be less than predicted. It's called "making payroll" even when there's a temporary dip in revenue.

The employer also performs a lot of essential functions to sustain the enterprise, even if he does no direct labor in the manufacture of this hypothetical "product" you're thinking of. He must, for starters, analyze the market for the product, and the markets for all of the factors of production he'll need to pay for in order to produce it (real estate, labor, suppliers, marketing, and all the rest), and identify the type of good that can be sold at a profit (i.e., not at a loss, costing more than it takes to make it). In other words, the employer must identify an unmet (or undermet) consumer demand, which can be met more efficiently than others are attempting to meet it. If you think you can do that, please give it a shot.

The employer has also marshaled all of the factors of production (the real estate, labor, suppliers, marketing, and all the rest), and coordinated them all into the production of some good.

He has made a connection with a buyer, and hopefully more than one, so that he can keep on selling these goods indefinitely.

He has adapted his mode of production whenever the identity of the good sold, or the way in which it's made, or any other of about 1,000 other things that go into the production of desired goods, as circumstances change (and they change constantly).

If the employer can perform all of these tasks well (and in larger en ...


That was one of the longest blow jobs for capitalism I have ever seen on fark, impressive.  Congrats on you believing that "risk" is worth more than the blood sweat and tears of the majority of the world, who break their backs to line the pockets of the elite few though just so that they can live.  I'm sure your generous benefactors will kick some dinner scraps for your to lap up soon.
 
2013-10-18 12:24:15 PM  

FarkedOver: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: You really expect an IT helpdesk associate whose job is to troubleshoot software for a financial consultant at a telecom company to "control the means of production"? The production of what? And how would they control it?

Socialism is not just for industrial workers.  It's for all workers of all countries every where.  The product is the software.  The software, like machines, needs repairs and needs people who understand it and how to operate it.  Your lack of vision in how to incorporate office workers within a socialist system is not my problem, but your own short sightedness.


IT helpdesk workers typically don't produce software.

And somehow your inability to flesh out the system you're advocating beyond trite platitudes is my problem? Yeah, no. You sound like an undergrad who just took a comparative econ class and thinks he can solve the worlds financial crisis.

Don't worry, you'll eventually get a job one day and forget all about Mr. Engels.
 
2013-10-18 12:25:00 PM  

Fano: FarkedOver: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: You really expect an IT helpdesk associate whose job is to troubleshoot software for a financial consultant at a telecom company to "control the means of production"? The production of what? And how would they control it?

Socialism is not just for industrial workers.  It's for all workers of all countries every where.  The product is the software.  The software, like machines, needs repairs and needs people who understand it and how to operate it.  Your lack of vision in how to incorporate office workers within a socialist system is not my problem, but your own short sightedness.

You're just as smart as Lenin, I'll give you that.


You mean that as an insult, which is fine, considering you probably have never even read any of his writings... I take it as a compliment. Thank you.
 
2013-10-18 12:26:23 PM  

Otto_E_Rodika: Then, sit back and act surprised that any of this surprises you.


What surprises me is your focus on black families receiving welfare, as if they're the only ones who do.
 
2013-10-18 12:26:47 PM  

jaybeezey: It's always been crazy to me the way conservatives rail against abortion, when they should really be for it. They should be knocking down congress' door demanding abortions for poor minorites to help equalize the numbers of democrats at the future polls and it is soooooo much cheaper than supporting their future lazy asses in the long run.


Keep in mind that the conservative good old days is more Dickenson than Leave It To Beaver.
 
2013-10-18 12:28:03 PM  

FarkedOver: Congrats on you believing that "risk" is worth more than the blood sweat and tears of the majority of the world, who break their backs to line the pockets of the elite few

...


So, you've started zero businesses.  Got it.

Risk is the risk of losing savings.  Savings come from prior successful production.  Those savings are the blood, sweat and tears of other people.  When you denigrate it in one breath, you denigrate the people you are trying to praise in your next.
 
2013-10-18 12:28:32 PM  

FarkedOver: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: You really expect an IT helpdesk associate whose job is to troubleshoot software for a financial consultant at a telecom company to "control the means of production"? The production of what? And how would they control it?

Socialism is not just for industrial workers.  It's for all workers of all countries every where.  The product is the software.  The software, like machines, needs repairs and needs people who understand it and how to operate it.  Your lack of vision in how to incorporate office workers within a socialist system is not my problem, but your own short sightedness.


If it's such a great system, why did the Soviets fail?  They had all the resources to make it work.
 
2013-10-18 12:30:29 PM  

Phinn: So, you've started zero businesses. Got it.

Risk is the risk of losing savings. Savings come from prior successful production. Those savings are the blood, sweat and tears of other people. When you denigrate it in one breath, you denigrate the people you are trying to praise in your next.


What's your point? I'm not in the business of starting business ;) You've read zero on socialism or communism that's what I'm getting from that statement.
 
2013-10-18 12:31:24 PM  

UrukHaiGuyz: Marcintosh: Positive.  Roll.  Models.  Where can you get some?  I've looked online.  I've looked in the old phone books.  I've looked at sports.  I know better than to look to business.

Sadly the rich do not deign to live in poverty stricken areas for some reason, so they're no help.

Positive roll model:

[manhattaninfidel.com image 260x463]


I stand in awe of your AWESOMENESSLYISM
so beautiful . . .
 
2013-10-18 12:32:23 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: cefm: It's only in America where we appear to hate poor people and kick them in the teeth at every turn that this is true.

Reciprocal altruism implies that voters will dislike giving money to the poor if, as in the United States, the poor are perceived as lazy. In contrast, Europeans overwhelmingly believe that the poor are poor because they have been unfortunate. This difference in views is part of what is sometimes referred to as "American exceptionalism." Link


I've been trying to figure out for a while now how to have a meritocracy without punishing those who are unlucky.  I haven't gotten very far.
 
2013-10-18 12:32:26 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: If it's such a great system, why did the Soviets fail? They had all the resources to make it work.


Stalin.  His whole practice of "Socialism in one country" was bullshiat and anti-Marxist.  It's an international movement and failing to make it an international issue, you will be outspent by the capitalists and crushed by the capitalists every time.
 
2013-10-18 12:33:12 PM  
Still waiting to hear how socialism is any more voluntary than a mixed economy...
 
2013-10-18 12:34:24 PM  
That still counts as CHANGE and most of all it creates HOPE, false hope but still hope
 
2013-10-18 12:34:24 PM  

FarkedOver: Smeggy Smurf: If it's such a great system, why did the Soviets fail? They had all the resources to make it work.

Stalin.  His whole practice of "Socialism in one country" was bullshiat and anti-Marxist.  It's an international movement and failing to make it an international issue, you will be outspent by the capitalists and crushed by the capitalists every time.


How does that work with local choice and national sovereignty?
 
2013-10-18 12:35:17 PM  

FarkedOver: Smeggy Smurf: If it's such a great system, why did the Soviets fail? They had all the resources to make it work.

Stalin.  His whole practice of "Socialism in one country" was bullshiat and anti-Marxist.  It's an international movement and failing to make it an international issue, you will be outspent by the capitalists and crushed by the capitalists every time.


In your profile you describe yourself as an "anti-capitalist". Out of curiosity, what do you do for work?
 
2013-10-18 12:37:38 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: FarkedOver: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: You really expect an IT helpdesk associate whose job is to troubleshoot software for a financial consultant at a telecom company to "control the means of production"? The production of what? And how would they control it?

Socialism is not just for industrial workers.  It's for all workers of all countries every where.  The product is the software.  The software, like machines, needs repairs and needs people who understand it and how to operate it.  Your lack of vision in how to incorporate office workers within a socialist system is not my problem, but your own short sightedness.

IT helpdesk workers typically don't produce software.

And somehow your inability to flesh out the system you're advocating beyond trite platitudes is my problem? Yeah, no. You sound like an undergrad who just took a comparative econ class and thinks he can solve the worlds financial crisis.

Don't worry, you'll eventually get a job one day and forget all about Mr. Engels.


So their expertise in troubleshooting and understanding the software excludes them from socialism? They're not really "workers", I mean I don't get what you're trying to say....

but no matter what I say at this point it will be a "trite platitude", and you'll just dismiss it offhand.
 
2013-10-18 12:37:45 PM  

FarkedOver: What's your point? I'm not in the business of starting business ;) You've read zero on socialism or communism that's what I'm getting from that statement.



I've read a lot of it.  It's all wrong in profound, fundamental ways.

My point is that only the free, voluntary trade of goods and services has the slightest chance of increasing wealth.

I completely agree that the poor and uneducated and weakest members of society have gotten the shaft in innumerable ways, since forever, but market freedom is not one of them.

Market freedom is actually rather rare in America, although it has an undeserved reputation for it.  Most unfree government measures are enacted for the benefit of the biggest businesses and crony-est insiders, with banking/finance/insurance being the biggest player, with energy and pharmaceuticals being the top two implementations of the interests of the banking/finance/insurance caste.
 
2013-10-18 12:39:08 PM  

BgJonson79: How does that work with local choice and national sovereignty?


ummm you don't understand the end goal of communism, do you?
 
2013-10-18 12:39:31 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Still waiting to hear how socialism is any more voluntary than a mixed economy...


easy, an economic system is involuntary. You can't choose not to participate in it without excluding yourself from society.
 
2013-10-18 12:39:35 PM  

BgJonson79: I've been trying to figure out for a while now how to have a meritocracy without punishing those who are unlucky. I haven't gotten very far.


We have to get the tools to people to pick up and start over. As other's have said, in the past you could be unlucky/make bad choices and still land on you feet, get a GED and land a job at a factory or the post office. Now higher education costs so much it is out of reach.


We also let the financially unsophisticated borrow too much.
 
2013-10-18 12:39:38 PM  

FarkedOver: BgJonson79: How does that work with local choice and national sovereignty?

ummm you don't understand the end goal of communism, do you?


Spell it out for me so I know we're on the same page.
 
2013-10-18 12:41:14 PM  

Anayalator: [i.qkme.me image 451x577]


I believe that's missing "government" in the handouts part.
 
2013-10-18 12:41:20 PM  

BgJonson79: FarkedOver: BgJonson79: How does that work with local choice and national sovereignty?

ummm you don't understand the end goal of communism, do you?

Spell it out for me so I know we're on the same page.


There are no borders.... people cannot be illegal... you catching my drift?
 
2013-10-18 12:42:02 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: BgJonson79: I've been trying to figure out for a while now how to have a meritocracy without punishing those who are unlucky. I haven't gotten very far.

We have to get the tools to people to pick up and start over. As other's have said, in the past you could be unlucky/make bad choices and still land on you feet, get a GED and land a job at a factory or the post office. Now higher education costs so much it is out of reach.


We also let the financially unsophisticated borrow too much.


Poor people get free cash for that too. I had to pay for my own education.
 
2013-10-18 12:42:38 PM  

FarkedOver: BgJonson79: FarkedOver: BgJonson79: How does that work with local choice and national sovereignty?

ummm you don't understand the end goal of communism, do you?

Spell it out for me so I know we're on the same page.

There are no borders.... people cannot be illegal... you catching my drift?


So how can they choose to live differently sans borders?
 
2013-10-18 12:42:43 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Otto_E_Rodika: Then, sit back and act surprised that any of this surprises you.

What surprises me is your focus on black families receiving welfare, as if they're the only ones who do.


Well, you can continue to ignore facts, but reality is that 40% of blacks live in poverty.  If you factor in low income households, then the number rises to 83%.  These numbers did not exist before the welfare state encouraged financial and lifestyle irresponsibility.  Or are you trying to imply that the poor in this country are overwhelming white?  Economic conditions are tied directly to social conditions.  The most stable, and financially successful, community in the US is Asian-Americans.  They value education and hard work.  Like Caucasians, they have to be discriminated against for entry to college less their numbers dominate class enrollment.

Break this down by race and social standards, and you will see a direct correlation between how people choose to live, what they value (education, family, industriousness, community), and where they are economically.
 
2013-10-18 12:43:36 PM  

BgJonson79: FarkedOver: BgJonson79: FarkedOver: BgJonson79: How does that work with local choice and national sovereignty?

ummm you don't understand the end goal of communism, do you?

Spell it out for me so I know we're on the same page.

There are no borders.... people cannot be illegal... you catching my drift?

So how can they choose to live differently sans borders?


What do you mean, I don't follow.
 
2013-10-18 12:44:50 PM  

FarkedOver: BgJonson79: FarkedOver: BgJonson79: FarkedOver: BgJonson79: How does that work with local choice and national sovereignty?

ummm you don't understand the end goal of communism, do you?

Spell it out for me so I know we're on the same page.

There are no borders.... people cannot be illegal... you catching my drift?

So how can they choose to live differently sans borders?

What do you mean, I don't follow.


No borders implies one government.  If there is one government, how can people choose to live under a different government with different laws?  The lack of choice, to me at least, implies lack of democracy.
 
2013-10-18 12:46:29 PM  

Otto_E_Rodika: Well, you can continue to ignore facts, but reality is that 40% of blacks live in poverty.


And the same amount of whites receive welfare, which is what your original statement was about.

Government dependency is a myth. 87% of the households receiving SNAP in any given month include an individual who worked in the prior year or will work in the following year.
 
2013-10-18 12:47:22 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: Fissile: Of all developed countries the US has the lowest rate of social mobility.  The rich stay rich, and the poor stay poor.  The US as meritocracy is a lie.

Funny, I grew up poor as a military brat.  Now I'm not poor.  Funny how getting a career type job can fix that.


Tell me more about your life! I want to know how I can turn out, since obviously your circumstances and history and advantages are EXACTLY the same as everyone else's!  I mean, because if you're black, or hispanic or a woman or handicapped or have a mental illnes you'll get  considered for the exact same career type job, right?  And you'll get picked exactly the same amount of times as your white male counterpart right?  It works out the same for everyone, right? Thank god!

What size are your bootstraps?  Can I get them in red?
 
2013-10-18 12:47:38 PM  

BgJonson79: No borders implies one government. If there is one government, how can people choose to live under a different government with different laws? The lack of choice, to me at least, implies lack of democracy.


Your understanding of communism is flawed.  Communism is a classless, stateless society... i.e. no government.  The stage prior to communism is socialism a.k.a. the dictatorship of the proletariat.  The end goal of socialism is communism.  The state under socialism is to "wither away" as described by Marx, Engles and Later Lenin.

Feel free to check out any of their writings free www.marxists.org.  Because this shiat gets heavy duty.
 
2013-10-18 12:51:13 PM  

Thunderpipes: Free housing, free phone, free food, free cash.... Why would anyone want to stop being poor? It is hard work.


I've long thought that we ought to try an experiment in some locale: in return for our supporting you, you have to come sit in a room for 40 hours a week. That's all you need to do, just be present. We'll treat it like a job where you get vacation and sick days and holidays, but you otherwise can't leave without getting docked on your "pay". I'll bet you'd see quite a drop in people applying for benefits.
 
2013-10-18 12:51:50 PM  

FarkedOver: BgJonson79: No borders implies one government. If there is one government, how can people choose to live under a different government with different laws? The lack of choice, to me at least, implies lack of democracy.

Your understanding of communism is flawed.  Communism is a classless, stateless society... i.e. no government.  The stage prior to communism is socialism a.k.a. the dictatorship of the proletariat.  The end goal of socialism is communism.  The state under socialism is to "wither away" as described by Marx, Engles and Later Lenin.

Feel free to check out any of their writings free www.marxists.org.  Because this shiat gets heavy duty.


I'm a fairly stalwart Libertarian, and even I can't figure out how society can exist without government.  Care to give me a Reader's Digest example?
 
2013-10-18 12:52:35 PM  

Thunderpipes: Free housing, free phone, free food, free cash.... Why would anyone want to stop being poor? It is hard work.


MOAR.  You can have more and better quality of these things if you get them yourself.  That's one perspective I've learned to see, thanks Fark.  Poor people aren't kicking back in the projects saying, "This, this is the life"   Poverty sucks.  And they know it.  Most of them aren't able to change their circumstances.
 
2013-10-18 12:54:49 PM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: Thunderpipes: Free housing, free phone, free food, free cash.... Why would anyone want to stop being poor? It is hard work.

MOAR.  You can have more and better quality of these things if you get them yourself.  That's one perspective I've learned to see, thanks Fark.  Poor people aren't kicking back in the projects saying, "This, this is the life"   Poverty sucks.  And they know it.  Most of them aren't able to change their circumstances.


The question is, why can't they?  Supremely unlucky?  Poor decision making?  I really don't know, and that's why I'm asking.
 
2013-10-18 12:55:47 PM  

BgJonson79: I'm a fairly stalwart Libertarian, and even I can't figure out how society can exist without government. Care to give me a Reader's Digest example?



They will create the New Soviet Man, who is so selfless that economic collectivism comes naturally to him.

I think that is supposed to occur right after unicorns return to the world and all the pixie dust makes the flowers bloom.
 
2013-10-18 12:57:35 PM  

Tom_Slick: I blame No Child Left Behind, public schools now teach to the test, their only concerns are attendance and the test.  Private schools (the good ones not the derpy creationist Christian schools) are actually still teaching like Public schools did 30 years ago, so if parents have the means and opportunity they are pulling their kids out.

Get rid of NCLB and maybe we can get some decent public schools again.


Or you could move to the north parts of the country. We aren't retarded.
 
2013-10-18 12:58:23 PM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: Thunderpipes: Free housing, free phone, free food, free cash.... Why would anyone want to stop being poor? It is hard work.

MOAR.  You can have more and better quality of these things if you get them yourself.  That's one perspective I've learned to see, thanks Fark.  Poor people aren't kicking back in the projects saying, "This, this is the life"   Poverty sucks.  And they know it.  Most of them aren't able to change their circumstances.


Not to mention that if you live in a world with Thunderpipes you get your "free cash" (which you paid into every single paycheck while you were working if you're on unemployment) but then every single purchase you make is scrutinized as to whether or not you deserve it.  Don't forget, you can't use a refrigerator if you're on welfare.  You have to spend all day crying, clutching money to your chest, asking the first upstanding white Republican whether or not a turkey sandwich is ok to have for lunch or if that's too lush for a scumbag like yourself who was laid off from a full time position in the shiatty 2010 economy.

Being poor! Sign me up! I can't wait.
 
2013-10-18 12:59:55 PM  

BgJonson79: I'm a fairly stalwart Libertarian, and even I can't figure out how society can exist without government. Care to give me a Reader's Digest example?


I had this whole long written thing and I deleted it.  I thought to myself, wait a minute! I don't need to reinvent the wheel! Read the communist manifesto by marx/engles and I would read Principals of Communism by Engles.  Both are fairly short.  Engles is much much easier to read and is very plain spoken.

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ in dex.htm

Further reading which is a bit longer, but still very interesting is The State and Revolution by Lenin

http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/
 
2013-10-18 01:02:52 PM  

Phinn: BgJonson79: I'm a fairly stalwart Libertarian, and even I can't figure out how society can exist without government. Care to give me a Reader's Digest example?

They will create the New Soviet Man, who is so selfless that economic collectivism comes naturally to him.

I think that is supposed to occur right after unicorns return to the world and all the pixie dust makes the flowers bloom.


You should check out the pamphlet by Isaac Deutscher called On Socialist Man.  It's quite interesting.
 
2013-10-18 01:03:35 PM  

BgJonson79: Zeb Hesselgresser: Thunderpipes: Free housing, free phone, free food, free cash.... Why would anyone want to stop being poor? It is hard work.

MOAR.  You can have more and better quality of these things if you get them yourself.  That's one perspective I've learned to see, thanks Fark.  Poor people aren't kicking back in the projects saying, "This, this is the life"   Poverty sucks.  And they know it.  Most of them aren't able to change their circumstances.

The question is, why can't they?  Supremely unlucky?  Poor decision making?  I really don't know, and that's why I'm asking.


It's a skill set they have.  Said skill set has to include the ability to put forth an effort without immediate evidence of improvement.

/see just about everything worth doing
 
2013-10-18 01:03:57 PM  

BgJonson79: Zeb Hesselgresser: Thunderpipes: Free housing, free phone, free food, free cash.... Why would anyone want to stop being poor? It is hard work.

MOAR.  You can have more and better quality of these things if you get them yourself.  That's one perspective I've learned to see, thanks Fark.  Poor people aren't kicking back in the projects saying, "This, this is the life"   Poverty sucks.  And they know it.  Most of them aren't able to change their circumstances.

The question is, why can't they?  Supremely unlucky?  Poor decision making?  I really don't know, and that's why I'm asking.



Almost a total lack of entrepreneurial opportunities.  Once a society has been walled off from the rest of the world, there's very little anyone on the inside can do to create something out of nothing.  Housing projects are a hotbed of crime and child abuse, both of which perpetuate poverty.  Business don't want to start or remain in or near those areas, which creates an island that's virtually devoid of employers, and thus they see minimal economic growth.  The way that governments lay out cities, it's almost impossible for many poor people to get out to find employers.  Plus, the federal government's prohibition creates a black market for drugs, which creates the greatest opportunity for profit, but (being a black market) it also rewards the most violent participants.
 
2013-10-18 01:05:40 PM  
Zeb Hesselgresser:

It's a skill set they DON'T have.  Said skill set has to include the ability to put forth an effort without immediate evidence of improvement.

whoops
 
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