If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(World Review)   A referendum for Catalan independence is looking ever more likely. Basques could then follow suit. The unthinkable could happen and Spain could fall apart   (worldreview.info) divider line 105
    More: Scary, Catalans, Catalonia, Spain, Catalan independence, national language, guerrilla warfare, Spanish Civil War, Basque  
•       •       •

4710 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Oct 2013 at 10:04 AM (40 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



105 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-10-18 11:14:02 AM

plausdeny: neversubmit: 1. Transfer all of Spain's debt to Catalan

2. Grant them independence

3. Profit!

You missed a few steps:

2A Catalan defaults on all the debts

2B Spain works out some kind of balanced budget deal now that they don't have interest payments to make

2C Creditors scrape up whatever they can get, but amazingly Catalan hasn't much in the way of assets that are portable

2D Catalan bankruptcy is finalized

2E Catalan applied for re-union with Spain, where they are greeted as the returning prodigal son

Then you get your 3.

Oh, and 4:  Everyone sees straight through this, can't do anything about it, but Spain never gets foreign credit again.



Is that last part worse than

FTFA: Spain's public debt is more than 90 per cent of gross domestic product (GDP).
 
2013-10-18 11:17:11 AM
I can't believe I once had FLMountainMan favorited.  What a huge disappointment.

You went from principled and intelligent opposition to all derp all the time.
 
2013-10-18 11:19:04 AM

neversubmit: Is that last part worse thanFTFA: Spain's public debt is more than 90 per cent of gross domestic product (GDP).


What, is that supposed to make them special?
 
2013-10-18 11:19:44 AM

Prophet of Loss: Maybe we can negotiate to have one of the new countries take Arizona, Texas, and Florida in exchange for something useful.


Don't you dare lump Texas in with those terrible states.
 
2013-10-18 11:20:45 AM

ikanreed: They should've traded their sheep for more stone when they had the chance.


I admit, I LOLed.

/ I am terrible at that game. Well I guess not terrible.. it's just that nothing interesting ever happens and I'm always  in last place or close to last
 
2013-10-18 11:21:26 AM
images2.wikia.nocookie.net

Approves of this result.
 
2013-10-18 11:21:40 AM

Prophet of Loss: Maybe we can negotiate to have one of the new countries take Arizona, Texas, and Florida in exchange for something useful.


Hey now, I got out of the shiat-hole (FL) and into a nice paradise (TX).

Just take Florida...it truly sucks.
 
2013-10-18 11:22:30 AM

The Numbers: Meh. Declare that football teams in Catalonia would be ineligible to play in La Liga and watch the independence movement fall to pieces.


That would merit a question:  Say Catalonia does become an independent sate, would the UEFA co-efficients force FC Barcelona to start playing the CL from the 1st qualifying round (sometime in July)?
 
2013-10-18 11:28:28 AM
Will Spain change their name back to Castille? That would be cool.


/CK2
//EU4
 
2013-10-18 11:28:41 AM

costermonger: neversubmit: Is that last part worse than

? FTFA: Spain's public debt is more than 90 per cent of gross domestic product (GDP).

What, is that supposed to make them special?


Did the lack of a question mark confuse you, hmmm?

FIXED

What has "special" got to do with it?
 
2013-10-18 11:30:16 AM

Diogenes: I can't believe I once had FLMountainMan favorited.  What a huge disappointment.

You went from principled and intelligent opposition to all derp all the time.


Fark needs an eyeroll emoticon.  Judging from the intellectually smug tone of your post, I'm going to guess you categorize yourself as liberal and are therefore angry at some post I've made that you consider anti-Democrat.

I've posted 54 times on Fark since October 3rd (good lord I need to get out more).  37 were not remotely political.  I'm not going to scrutinize the other 17 posts for derp, but if you consider 17 posts (at most) in 15 days "all derp all the time" I'd really be interested in what you think of people like dittybopper.
 
2013-10-18 11:35:40 AM
Would an independent Catalan even be in the EU?
 
2013-10-18 11:42:29 AM
Countries are not forever things. Borders change, regions become part of it, regions break away. In the past this was usually a very violent process, at least this one is unlikely to lead to a bloody civil war.

When the US breaks up it will really be a mess... Probably another good 100 years to go, but that's what people said about the USSR too.
 
2013-10-18 11:42:54 AM

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: ZAZ: With the EU taking more and more power, is there any need for intact member states?

It would depend on whether or not you inherit EU membership if you secede from an EU member, I guess.


The EU has said they must apply for membership.
 
2013-10-18 11:48:25 AM

adamatari: Countries are not forever things. Borders change, regions become part of it, regions break away. In the past this was usually a very violent process, at least this one is unlikely to lead to a bloody civil war.

When the US breaks up it will really be a mess... Probably another good 100 years to go, but that's what people said about the USSR too.


The US is much different.

These folks are upset about things that happened in the 1600s. All of Europe is like that.

I think Belguim will split in half since the Flemish hate the French speakers. Probably the UK will split as Scotland and Wales leave.

Eventually, Europe will be a collection of small villages that hate all outsiders.
 
2013-10-18 11:48:36 AM

neversubmit: Did the lack of a question mark confuse you, hmmm?FIXEDWhat has "special" got to do with it?


You're pointing at Spain's debt to GDP like it's unusual in some way. Asking if it would be better to just surrender all hope of future foreign credit.
 
2013-10-18 11:49:40 AM

indarwinsshadow: I'd like to see Ontario break away from the rest of Canada. We need to become our own country.


Don't let the door hit you where the dog should've bit you.

And, BTW, you suck.
 
2013-10-18 11:58:31 AM
2.bp.blogspot.com
What the future borders on the Iberian Peninsula may look like.

nanim: Would an independent Catalan even be in the EU?


Probably. Scotland's holding a referendum as well and their First Minister has said that if Scotland does become independent they would join the EU.
 
2013-10-18 11:59:02 AM

costermonger: neversubmit: Did the lack of a question mark confuse you, hmmm?FIXEDWhat has "special" got to do with it?

You're pointing at Spain's debt to GDP like it's unusual in some way. Asking if it would be better to just surrender all hope of future foreign credit.


That's a special way to look at my question. I don't see it that way so I don't know what to say to you.
 
2013-10-18 12:02:13 PM

YixilTesiphon: Prophet of Loss: Maybe we can negotiate to have one of the new countries take Arizona, Texas, and Florida in exchange for something useful.

I'd rather we not lose 16% of our GDP, but good thought.


Sometimes you have to spend money to make money.
 
2013-10-18 12:03:22 PM

SwiftFox: The calls for independence also come at a difficult time for Spain's monarchy when its popularity is being questioned following a series of scandals.

Okay, just exactly what has the Spanish king done which is so scandalous? Haven't heard a thing.


Maybe not him directly, it's the royal family that's tinted with scandal.

Diogenes: give me doughnuts: SwiftFox: The calls for independence also come at a difficult time for Spain's monarchy when its popularity is being questioned following a series of scandals.

Okay, just exactly what has the Spanish king done which is so scandalous? Haven't heard a thing.

His Armada got beaten by the English.
Sure it's been a few years, but nobody holds grudges like the Spanish.

I shook his hand while in a line in the cathedral in Toledo.  It was weak and clammy.  (Kidding, he and the Queen were quite lovely.)


Did they have anything to say?
 
2013-10-18 12:04:13 PM

Paris1127: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 850x628]
What the future borders on the Iberian Peninsula may look like.

nanim: Would an independent Catalan even be in the EU?

Probably. Scotland's holding a referendum as well and their First Minister has said that if Scotland does become independent they would join the EU.


Murcia! Fark Yeah!
 
2013-10-18 12:07:23 PM

Nogale: The really important question: if the Catalan region declares independence, how will it affect the marathon?


Hopefully not at all.  I ran the marathon this past March and it was amazing.  Such a cool city.  I hadn't planned on going back, but after visiting, I will definitely be back.
 
2013-10-18 12:07:50 PM
Great.  Now I've got Spanish Bombs stuck in my head.  At least it's The Clash singing it.  All of the covers are terrible.
 
2013-10-18 12:08:39 PM

neversubmit: That's a special way to look at my question. I don't see it that way so I don't know what to say to you.


I'm not sure how I'm supposed to see it then, unless your intended answer to the "is that last part worse than" question was "no, no it is not."
 
2013-10-18 12:09:46 PM

costermonger: neversubmit: That's a special way to look at my question. I don't see it that way so I don't know what to say to you.

I'm not sure how I'm supposed to see it then, unless your intended answer to the "is that last part worse than" question was "no, no it is not. yes, yes it is"


Well I farked that up.
 
2013-10-18 12:10:58 PM

miss diminutive: Gentlemen, begin the thawing of General Francisco Franco.


I was in Spain a few years back, and I think they are still recovering from Franco, at least that's the impression I got. There was already some strife between Spanish communities and his era amplified it.

They're also still a bit bitter about the Moors.
 
2013-10-18 12:15:57 PM
Catalonian (or Catalunyan) identity was not something I really understood until I got to Barcelona.  Yes, Franco truly did a number on them.  Banning people from speaking their own language will tend to do that.
 
2013-10-18 12:28:16 PM

vento: Nogale: The really important question: if the Catalan region declares independence, how will it affect the marathon?

Hopefully not at all.  I ran the marathon this past March and it was amazing.  Such a cool city.  I hadn't planned on going back, but after visiting, I will definitely be back.


Glad to hear it. I'm hoping it's a fast course.
 
2013-10-18 12:30:42 PM
FYI this would be the equivalent of a US state voting to leave the union. It's not legally binding and the union is not going to let it happen.
 
2013-10-18 12:35:44 PM

broomballwilson: FYI this would be the equivalent of a US state voting to leave the union. It's not legally binding and the union is not going to let it happen.


Unless it's Florida.
 
TWX
2013-10-18 12:47:32 PM

DamnYankees: 521 years? Pretty good run.


*grin* that's what I was thinking too. It was a bit surprising to learn, as an adult, that Spain never really and truly unified after the Reconquista, and that they were effectively more like a confederation of competitive city-states than a real nation.

broomballwilson: FYI this would be the equivalent of a US state voting to leave the union. It's not legally binding and the union is not going to let it happen.


That's basically irrelevant. Just about every time that a region holds a plebiscite that comes down in favor of succession it's recognized by the international community. It doesn't really matter if the nation losing territory and citizenry agrees or not if everyone else stands by the new nation.
 
2013-10-18 12:47:58 PM

mcreadyblue: Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: ZAZ: With the EU taking more and more power, is there any need for intact member states?

It would depend on whether or not you inherit EU membership if you secede from an EU member, I guess.

The EU has said they must apply for membership.


The EU has said very little on wether break away states get automatic membership or not. The Spanish in the EU have said that any breakaway states don't get membership but no one knows as it's never been thought about before.

That said if it's not written down then it would most likely not be automatic without full agreement and Spain could veto it.
 
2013-10-18 12:59:05 PM

Paris1127: SwiftFox: The calls for independence also come at a difficult time for Spain's monarchy when its popularity is being questioned following a series of scandals.

Okay, just exactly what has the Spanish king done which is so scandalous? Haven't heard a thing.

Maybe not him directly, it's the royal family that's tinted with scandal.

Diogenes: give me doughnuts: SwiftFox: The calls for independence also come at a difficult time for Spain's monarchy when its popularity is being questioned following a series of scandals.

Okay, just exactly what has the Spanish king done which is so scandalous? Haven't heard a thing.

His Armada got beaten by the English.
Sure it's been a few years, but nobody holds grudges like the Spanish.

I shook his hand while in a line in the cathedral in Toledo.  It was weak and clammy.  (Kidding, he and the Queen were quite lovely.)

Did they have anything to say?


Not really.  It was controlled but chaotic.  We had no idea they were coming that day.  This was back in '87.

They pretty much corralled everyone behind a velvet rope and they walked through, shaking random hands as they went.
 
2013-10-18 01:00:52 PM

plausdeny: neversubmit: 1. Transfer all of Spain's debt to Catalan

2. Grant them independence

3. Profit!

You missed a few steps:

2A Catalan defaults on all the debts

2B Spain works out some kind of balanced budget deal now that they don't have interest payments to make

2C Creditors scrape up whatever they can get, but amazingly Catalan hasn't much in the way of assets that are portable

2D Catalan bankruptcy is finalized

2E Catalan applied for re-union with Spain, where they are greeted as the returning prodigal son

Then you get your 3.

Oh, and 4:  Everyone sees straight through this, can't do anything about it, but Spain never gets foreign credit again.


don't forget the siesta somewhere in there
 
2013-10-18 01:07:18 PM

Rapmaster2000: Catalonian (or Catalunyan) identity was not something I really understood until I got to Barcelona.  Yes, Franco truly did a number on them.  Banning people from speaking their own language will tend to do that.


The post-Franco backlash is... interesting. Catalan is required by law to be taught in all schools; even the private ones. There are a lot of British ex-pats in Catalonia, and even in British schools the kids have to take a certain number of hours in Catalan.

Also, the museum of Catalonia in Barcelona is a huge modern endeavor that traces the regional history from the paleolithic to modern times, but all the exhibit descriptions are in friggin Catalan. Nothing in Spanish even.

I almost understand not having English translations, although that's a questionable decision. I mean it seems pretty self-defeating to have a museum to teach the world your proud local history, but have all the displays in a dying regional language no one from outside the region understands.
 
2013-10-18 01:27:15 PM

starsrift: indarwinsshadow: I'd like to see Ontario break away from the rest of Canada. We need to become our own country.

Isn't Ontario the province with nearly 300 billion dollars of provincial debt and taking on more by the day?

Maybe you want to fix that before being all proudly independent.


No, no they don't. Get out, take your stupidity and bloated bureaucracies with you.  You can keep Parliament, we'll make something new.
/Albertan
//At least then your decisions will only affect you and not the rest of us
///Take Quebec with ya.
 
2013-10-18 01:31:46 PM
What does this mean for the Ibiza party scene?
 
2013-10-18 01:34:58 PM

neversubmit: 1. Transfer all of Spain's debt to Catalan

2. Grant them independence

3. Profit!


Transfer all of Spanish's debt to Catalan.  Then ask English what they think of German before asking French what to do about Portugese.  Don't forget that Chinese isn't going to like the loss a market for its goods.  Neither is Japanese.

Now that's grammatical consistency.
 
2013-10-18 01:40:41 PM

SwiftFox: The calls for independence also come at a difficult time for Spain's monarchy when its popularity is being questioned following a series of scandals.

Okay, just exactly what has the Spanish king done which is so scandalous? Haven't heard a thing.


Well, he was working at a Pizza Pizza in Canada, for starters...
 
2013-10-18 01:54:43 PM

Paris1127: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 850x628]
What the future borders on the Iberian Peninsula may look like.

nanim: Would an independent Catalan even be in the EU?

Probably. Scotland's holding a referendum as well and their First Minister has said that if Scotland does become independent they would join the EU.


That's gonna be gold.  A little taste of Appalachia at the EU.

/Appalachian
 
2013-10-18 02:01:45 PM

Diogenes: miss diminutive: Gentlemen, begin the thawing of General Francisco Franco.

Boy I remember being in Barcelona in '92 for the Olympics.  I learned Castilian and had been to Spain before but was never in Cataluña.  They were really insistent on speaking only Catalan, to the point of rudeness.  They had the eyes of the world on them, and they wanted to use every opportunity to express their uniqueness.  Franco really did a number on them.


THIS

After what Franco did to the Etrexa (Basques) and the Catalonians, over the course of 30 brutal years of dictatorship, these ppl deserve to allowed to decide if they want to separate from the people who ruthlessly persecuted them.

It should also be noted that the Castilians have never actually apologized for what they did to the Etrexa, Catalons, Galacians, and Granadans during both the civil war and the ensuing Castilian overlordship. The king came back and they passed a constitution stating that there was one "Spanish nation", and everyone was going to shut up about Franco and what the Castilians did do everyone on the Iberian peninsula not Castilian.

Didn't even thank the Basques for setting up the end of the dictatorship by knocking off Franco's No. 2 just before Franco died.

It should also be noted that Catalonian independence is a hell of a lot older than 1714. Note to articles author, look up Kingdom of Aragon.
 
2013-10-18 02:12:48 PM

FLMountainMan: Paris1127: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 850x628]
What the future borders on the Iberian Peninsula may look like.

nanim: Would an independent Catalan even be in the EU?

Probably. Scotland's holding a referendum as well and their First Minister has said that if Scotland does become independent they would join the EU.

That's gonna be gold.  A little taste of Appalachia at the EU.

/Appalachian


Scottish independence is a pipe dream. There's no way Scotland can support its cradle to grave welfare state without England. On top of it the only way a Scottish republic is going to work is if it starts by pissing off a bunch of major corporations who own MASSIVE amounts of the real property in the country. Many towns in Scotland don't even own the land their municipal buildings sit on. They pay rent to a foreign corporation for use of the land. If they do nothing then they'll look ridiculous weak and possibly corrupt. If they nationalize it, FDI will evaporate overnight and the unemployment and Treasury situation will go from critical to Chernobyl.

The situation with the real property is gradually being ameliorated only because as part of the UK, there's enough political and economic clout to convince some of the holding corporations to begin selling the titles back to the Scottish people.

Holyrod needs Westminster both for access to a larger tax base and political cover for the dismal state of the Scottish economy. If the SIP had to stand on its own two feet and explain how it was actually going to manage an independent Scotland with their current revenues, the whole of the population would either flee to England or revolt.
 
2013-10-18 02:14:32 PM

Son of Thunder: indarwinsshadow: I'd like to see Ontario break away from the rest of Canada. We need to become our own country.

Don't let the door hit you where the dog should've bit you.

And, BTW, you suck.


Says the guy from the worlds flatest province. Seriously, how the hell do you people live without seeing trees, mountains...anything higher than an ant hill? First place I ever drove that I could see from Manitoba to Alberta with a large flat space in between.
 
2013-10-18 02:21:35 PM

brokendownyota: starsrift: indarwinsshadow: I'd like to see Ontario break away from the rest of Canada. We need to become our own country.

Isn't Ontario the province with nearly 300 billion dollars of provincial debt and taking on more by the day?

Maybe you want to fix that before being all proudly independent.

No, no they don't. Get out, take your stupidity and bloated bureaucracies with you.  You can keep Parliament, we'll make something new.
/Albertan
//At least then your decisions will only affect you and not the rest of us
///Take Quebec with ya.


No one wants Quebec. Quebecers don't want Quebec.

And Ontario, IS, Canada. Alberta is just the red headed step child of Canada. The lame cousin with the single industry. Take away the oil in a couple of years as it will get harder and harder to extract tar sands at a profit, and you're pack on EI...again.  Please Ontario, spare us some change will ya.

One of the reason Ontario needs to give the rest of Canada its walking papers. I'm tired of paying taxes so the rest of the Canadian provinces can act like their sh*t doesn't stink.
 
2013-10-18 02:38:29 PM
indarwinsshadow:

And Ontario, IS, Canada. Alberta is just the red headed step child of Canada. The lame cousin with the single industry. Take away the oil in a couple of years as it will get harder and harder to extract tar sands at a profit, and you're pack on EI...again.  Please Ontario, spare us some change will ya.

One of the reason Ontario needs to give the rest of Canada its walking papers. I'm tired of paying taxes so the rest of the Canadian provinces can act like their sh*t doesn't stink.


As an American I'm for it. After Canada dissolves we can finally fulfill President Polk's bold vision and incorporate British Columbia and Yukon into the Union.

Also more progressive voters to stack the deck against the Teahadists and Vancouver is a really awesome city so theres that too.
 
2013-10-18 02:53:38 PM

Paris1127: Probably. Scotland's holding a referendum as well and their First Minister has said that if Scotland does become independent they would join the EU.


Alex Salmond said it but had to admit recently the SNP (and the Scottish Parliament) has taken no expert advice on Scotlands status with the EU.

So the current talk by Salmond and co about EU membership is based on no more than hot air.
 
2013-10-18 03:06:15 PM

Pubby: a Scottish republic


Salmond has made it clear that an independent Scotland would retain the Queen as head of state. So more of a constitutional monarchy.
 
2013-10-18 03:53:10 PM

Donnchadha: BiffDangler: Why is it unthinkable?

I'm not buying new maps, dammit!


Heh...the biggest European map currently in my house is printed on silk, or something like it; it's a German Army map, from 1942.  Got some interesting borders on it :)

Inherited it from a great aunt a number of years ago.
 
2013-10-18 04:19:36 PM
refractiveindex.files.wordpress.com
 
Displayed 50 of 105 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report