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(Detroit Free Press)   While everyone is distracted by the debt ceiling fight, a federal judge may legalize same-sex marriage in Michigan today   (freep.com) divider line 121
    More: Interesting, Michigan Today, gay marriage ban, Michigan, LGBT rights in Michigan, federal judges, Michigan Attorney General, federal benefits, federal courts  
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2510 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Oct 2013 at 2:33 PM (40 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-16 01:12:58 PM
Cool. While I really wish that SCOTUS had given a more definitive ruling it was enough to spell the end of these kinds of laws at the State level. I predict that the Michigan law will be overturned that that this is only the first of many.
 
2013-10-16 01:30:50 PM
FTFA: nothing in the U.S. Constitution requires or permits federal courts to invalidate a state's decision

i.imgur.com


Yeah. Run with that. I'm sure the Federal judge hearing the case loved that one.
 
2013-10-16 01:50:20 PM
Good. Marriage equality is past time.

Don't like it? Don't eat it. But never mind what anyone else has on their plates...
 
2013-10-16 01:59:54 PM
Good.
 
2013-10-16 02:01:57 PM
yep, they are gonna slip it in the back door.
 
2013-10-16 02:02:40 PM
Pfft.  Like I want to gay marry anyone from Michigan.
 
2013-10-16 02:04:47 PM
I'm fine with this, so long as the complete ban on Yooper marriage remains intact.
 
2013-10-16 02:28:36 PM
You hear that Tea Partiers?  We're destroying your country.  And we're ENJOYING it.
 
2013-10-16 02:30:26 PM
Michigan is so weird.  In a lot of ways, it's a blue state...and in things like this it's red.  It should be overturned today which is good news.
 
2013-10-16 02:36:36 PM
This was the only good thing about the shutdown.  I didn't have to hear about gay marriage for a while.  I may get gay married just to spite the retards who are still making this an issue.  My girlfriend may not approve though.

It's happening, you lost, get over it.
 
2013-10-16 02:36:46 PM
Sex by surprise?
 
2013-10-16 02:38:19 PM
Nobody cares anymore. Deal with it.
 
2013-10-16 02:38:50 PM
You know if we don't let them get married they're still going to be gay.  Just FYI.
 
2013-10-16 02:38:53 PM

Somacandra: FTFA: nothing in the U.S. Constitution requires or permits federal courts to invalidate a state's decision



Yeah. Run with that. I'm sure the Federal judge hearing the case loved that one.


I appreciate the thought.

But you couldn't reference, the very appropriate, Loving v Virginia?
 
2013-10-16 02:39:43 PM
Just to be clear, the judge delayed this case back in March because he wanted to wait to see how the Supreme Court would rule on it's gay marriage cases in June.  So that seems like a good indicator that he's now going to rule in favor of overturning the ban in Michigan.
 
2013-10-16 02:41:30 PM

slayer199: Michigan is so weird.  In a lot of ways, it's a blue state...and in things like this it's red.  It should be overturned today which is good news.


LOL.... Wierd? Try living here. We can't decide if we are rednecks or hillbillies. All we do know is we own guns, we love pasties, we like Obama, and we are suspicious of Tea Partiers .... and Ted Nugent lives here.

Pretty scary mix overall.... But still not worthy of a FARK Michigan tag
 
2013-10-16 02:41:46 PM
I believe in the sanctity of marriage.  I believe that marriage, when properly practiced, is a great institution for strengthening the bounds of a relationship, bringing stability to family and home, and encouraging monogamous relationships, which in turn may help reduce the spread of STDs.  It is for this reason, that I believe that gays should not only have the right to marry, but that if Christians truly believed in the power of the institution, that they would insist in encouraging gays to do so.
 
2013-10-16 02:42:53 PM
Yay!
 
2013-10-16 02:43:56 PM
Let's hope this is the first of many anti-marriage laws that fall.  Like dominoes.
 
2013-10-16 02:44:18 PM
STEALTHY GAY AGENDA INVADES MICHIGAN

The GOP warned us about them, temping good Christian men with their naughty bits and tight buns. You don't need to be in the gym everyday, Homo!!!
 
2013-10-16 02:44:58 PM

wxboy: Just to be clear, the judge delayed this case back in March because he wanted to wait to see how the Supreme Court would rule on it's gay marriage cases in June.  So that seems like a good indicator that he's now going to rule in favor of overturning the ban in Michigan.


Unfortunately, I doubt that's the case.  The Court sidestepped the equal protection issue, but in dicta i the DOMA opinion, it stated that the states should be left to their own determinations of what marriage is.  The only thing the DOMA opinion dealt with was whether the federal government could deny benefits to people who were legally married in states that recognized same sex marriage.  The Court never specifically dealt with the issue of whether a state could ban same sex marriage.  It merely held that the group defending the law did not have standing to do so, and so let the lower court ruling that overturned the ban stand.  I don't know that the judge here is going to read the DOMA opinion and say, "Well even though it says the states can determine what constitutes a valid marriage, I'm just going to ignore that because it's dicta."  I mean he could do that, but it's not very likely.
 
2013-10-16 02:46:44 PM

AngryDragon: This was the only good thing about the shutdown.  I didn't have to hear about gay marriage for a while.  I may get gay married just to spite the retards who are still making this an issue.  My girlfriend may not approve though.

It's happening, you lost, get over it.


Gyrfalcon: Nobody cares anymore. Deal with it.


Ummm... yeah, I care.  I care that I still can't get married in the majority of states.  I care that there are state constitutional amendments that specifically say I don't have the same rights as everyone else.  I care that leaving my home country and living as a guest worker affords me more legal protections from discrimination than staying in my beloved homeland (though that's not why I did it).  I care that the federal government has refused to do for all citizens what they did for people of color 50-60 years ago, because it might piss off religious people.

Please - if you support gay marriage, or simply are okay with it, then don't stop caring until the entire country joins the 21st century.
 
2013-10-16 02:47:41 PM

The Evil Home Brewer: LOL.... Wierd? Try living here. We can't decide if we are rednecks or hillbillies. All we do know is we own guns, we love pasties, we like Obama, and we are suspicious of Tea Partiers .... and Ted Nugent lives here.

Pretty scary mix overall.... But still not worthy of a FARK Michigan tag


I do live in Michigan...which is why I said it was weird.  We have Detroit, and then we have the downriver rednecks next door to Detroit.  We have the one of the largest Arabic populations in the country, yet no terrorist attacks (of course, what would you attack?  Detroit looks like it's already been bombed).  It's an odd state politically...solidly Blue for Presidential and Senate elections....solidly red within the state House and Senate.  It's strange.

Ted Nugent no longer lives in Michigan...he moved to Texas some years ago (but I think his hunting store in Jackson is still around).
 
2013-10-16 02:50:27 PM
The June DOMA ruling was that the federal government would acknowledge any state-sanctioned marriage.  The prop 8 case wasn't really a ruling, it was a refusal to even hear, if I recall correctly, so technically nothing was decided there.
Honestly, while I support marriage between any two legally consenting individuals, I'm not sure if I agree that the Feds are allowed to intervene... Honestly, I am disappointed that this case is being presented as a marriage issue, rather than what it really is, an adoption issue.  If the couple in the story had gotten legally married in another state, does the fed or state handle their right/privilege to adoption?  Could the ladies petition another state court for the adoptions?  I could see that becoming a federal matter if the state tried to ignore guardianship rights granted by another state...
 
2013-10-16 02:51:52 PM
They should just go ahead and legalize everything in Detroit and see how that works out.
 
2013-10-16 02:53:54 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: AngryDragon: This was the only good thing about the shutdown.  I didn't have to hear about gay marriage for a while.  I may get gay married just to spite the retards who are still making this an issue.  My girlfriend may not approve though.

It's happening, you lost, get over it.

Gyrfalcon: Nobody cares anymore. Deal with it.

Ummm... yeah, I care.  I care that I still can't get married in the majority of states.  I care that there are state constitutional amendments that specifically say I don't have the same rights as everyone else.  I care that leaving my home country and living as a guest worker affords me more legal protections from discrimination than staying in my beloved homeland (though that's not why I did it).  I care that the federal government has refused to do for all citizens what they did for people of color 50-60 years ago, because it might piss off religious people.

Please - if you support gay marriage, or simply are okay with it, then don't stop caring until the entire country joins the 21st century.


I don't think either of us were addressing you, I know I wasn't.  My comment was to the neanderthals who are still resisting this.  I'm happy for you guys.  Glad things are moving forward.  Seems like such a stupid thing to dig your heels in on.  I'm totally on your side.
 
2013-10-16 02:55:08 PM

slayer199: Michigan is so weird.  In a lot of ways, it's a blue state...and in things like this it's red.  It should be overturned today which is good news.


I agree with both statements. Michigan IS pretty odd, and I'm very glad that this might get overturned.
 
2013-10-16 02:55:09 PM
I don't have a dog in this fight.

OTOH, I did have hot buttsecks last night. So, YAY?
 
2013-10-16 02:58:51 PM

Semantic Warrior: Honestly, while I support marriage between any two legally consenting individuals, I'm not sure if I agree that the Feds are allowed to intervene


The 14th amendment says all people should have equal protection under the law.  So when a state law treats some people unequally, the Feds should intervene.  Pretty simple actually.
 
2013-10-16 03:01:21 PM

Dr._Michael_Hfuhruhurr: I don't have a dog in this fight.

OTOH, I did have hot buttsecks last night. So, YAY?


Is that why your dog can't fight?

/sorry
 
2013-10-16 03:01:55 PM
 
2013-10-16 03:03:17 PM

lennavan: Semantic Warrior: Honestly, while I support marriage between any two legally consenting individuals, I'm not sure if I agree that the Feds are allowed to intervene

The 14th amendment says all people should have equal protection under the law.  So when a state law treats some people unequally, the Feds should intervene.  Pretty simple actually.


I agree, but historically that hasn't been the case, from women to minorities to gays and lesbians. The ideal of the 14th amendment hasn't been supported or enforced since the day it was written. At least we can say that we're slowly (and damn reluctantly for some people) rising to fulfill that ideal (no pun intended).
 
2013-10-16 03:03:43 PM
Live blog of the ruling:
http://live.freep.com/Event/Live_blog_Michigan_judge_expected_to_rul e_ on_gay_marriage_ban

As of now, the latest is:
She quotes from another case, if discrimination would be allowed, our children would be drinking from separate water fountains. The 14th Amendment would not tolerate those events, nor should they tolerate discrimination against gays and lesbians.
by Jim Schaefer 12:00 PM
We at times, have lost our footing, and sometimes our humanity. We rely on federal courts, sometimes, to tell us there are no second-class citizens in our country.
by Jim Schaefer 12:01 PM
 
2013-10-16 03:05:08 PM
...so you're saying the gays caused the slimdown?

I KNEW IT!
 
2013-10-16 03:05:18 PM

slayer199: The Evil Home Brewer: LOL.... Wierd? Try living here. We can't decide if we are rednecks or hillbillies. All we do know is we own guns, we love pasties, we like Obama, and we are suspicious of Tea Partiers .... and Ted Nugent lives here.

Pretty scary mix overall.... But still not worthy of a FARK Michigan tag

I do live in Michigan...which is why I said it was weird.  We have Detroit, and then we have the downriver rednecks next door to Detroit.  We have the one of the largest Arabic populations in the country, yet no terrorist attacks (of course, what would you attack?  Detroit looks like it's already been bombed).  It's an odd state politically...solidly Blue for Presidential and Senate elections....solidly red within the state House and Senate.  It's strange.

Ted Nugent no longer lives in Michigan...he moved to Texas some years ago (but I think his hunting store in Jackson is still around).


Yes..... Detroit is a shell of its former greatness. Mayor Coleman Young may have been corrupt.... But he kept Detroit running. The Arabic community? Great people overall... Never had any issues with any of them.... nor were there issues within the community at all.

Ted no longer lives here? Nice..... I missed that memo. If Bo Schembeckler could own a pizza place in Columbus, OH while he was alive, Ted can own a hunting store in Jackson..... as long as he stays in Texas
 
2013-10-16 03:05:47 PM

dywed88: I appreciate the thought.But you couldn't reference, the very appropriate, Loving v Virginia?


Nah.

I thought I'd leave that to you.
 
2013-10-16 03:07:29 PM
Well, given that civilizatio has already collapsed in half the state and transformed it into a post-apocalyptic hellscape, exactly what further harm could legalizing gay marriage do?
 
2013-10-16 03:07:48 PM
Let me change that slightly.....

Yes..... Detroit is a shell of its former greatness. Mayor Coleman Young may have been corrupt.... But he kept Detroit running. The Arabic community? Great people overall... Never had any issues with any of them.... nor were there issues within the community at all.
Within the Arabic community. Yes.... Detroit has enough "issues" for the entire state.... although Flint contributes their fair share. But the Arabic community kep their streets clean, their houses well tended and caused no problems for anyone while I was there.
 
2013-10-16 03:08:09 PM

timujin: Live blog of the ruling:
http://live.freep.com/Event/Live_blog_Michigan_judge_expected_to_rul e_ on_gay_marriage_ban


These are the arguments---it seems. Not the judge's remarks.
 
2013-10-16 03:10:14 PM

AngryDragon: Benevolent Misanthrope: AngryDragon: This was the only good thing about the shutdown.  I didn't have to hear about gay marriage for a while.  I may get gay married just to spite the retards who are still making this an issue.  My girlfriend may not approve though.

It's happening, you lost, get over it.

Gyrfalcon: Nobody cares anymore. Deal with it.

Ummm... yeah, I care.  I care that I still can't get married in the majority of states.  I care that there are state constitutional amendments that specifically say I don't have the same rights as everyone else.  I care that leaving my home country and living as a guest worker affords me more legal protections from discrimination than staying in my beloved homeland (though that's not why I did it).  I care that the federal government has refused to do for all citizens what they did for people of color 50-60 years ago, because it might piss off religious people.

Please - if you support gay marriage, or simply are okay with it, then don't stop caring until the entire country joins the 21st century.

I don't think either of us were addressing you, I know I wasn't.  My comment was to the neanderthals who are still resisting this.  I'm happy for you guys.  Glad things are moving forward.  Seems like such a stupid thing to dig your heels in on.  I'm totally on your side.


Oh - understood.  Please don't take my post personally.

Just... also, please don't let current successes dragging the country into the modern age make you feel like the fight is over.  It's not, unfortunately.
 
2013-10-16 03:12:14 PM
ok, national parks aren't essential government business but forced gay turtle marriage is?!  What the hell kind of slimdown is this anyhow, republicans?
 
2013-10-16 03:12:54 PM

Dr._Michael_Hfuhruhurr: I don't have a dog in this fight.

OTOH, I did have hot buttsecks last night. So, YAY?


I'm not LGBT but somehow I give a damn.

And since I've had LGBT friends who've left Michigan partly because their spouse couldn't get benefits, wouldn't have ICU visitations, etc., I actually give quite a bit of a damn.  But congraduhorrible.

LGBT Michigan community center that deserves dollars if you have 'em:

http://www.goaffirmations.org/
 
2013-10-16 03:14:04 PM

The Evil Home Brewer: Let me change that slightly.....

Yes..... Detroit is a shell of its former greatness. Mayor Coleman Young may have been corrupt.... But he kept Detroit running. The Arabic community? Great people overall... Never had any issues with any of them.... nor were there issues within the community at all.
Within the Arabic community. Yes.... Detroit has enough "issues" for the entire state.... although Flint contributes their fair share. But the Arabic community kep their streets clean, their houses well tended and caused no problems for anyone while I was there.


You.... should work.... on thinking... before you type.
 
2013-10-16 03:14:45 PM
Good.  Finally.

Aside: Michigan is in no state (ha, see what I did there) to be limiting avenues of commerce.  Open up the gay marriage market - you won't be disappointed.
 
2013-10-16 03:16:11 PM
Welcome to the 21st century Michigan!
 
2013-10-16 03:16:16 PM

Somacandra: timujin: Live blog of the ruling:
http://live.freep.com/Event/Live_blog_Michigan_judge_expected_to_rul e_ on_gay_marriage_ban

These are the arguments---it seems. Not the judge's remarks.


Yes, sorry, I used the wording from the link itself.  This is currently the arguments being presented by the attorney, Carole Stanyar.
 
2013-10-16 03:19:03 PM
And if this passes, I'm totally going by the courthouse on my way home from work to join the festivities.  Our clerk is cool and apparently at least two dozen couples are already waiting.  Here's hoping.

I don't even have the slightest rush to get married unless it makes financial/legal sense  (so not til the SO and I buy a house or property, probably) but at least I get that choice.

Here's hoping Michigan can be progressive for once.  It'd be a nice change of pace from recent developments.
 
2013-10-16 03:21:27 PM

timujin: Live blog of the ruling:
http://live.freep.com/Event/Live_blog_Michigan_judge_expected_to_rul e_ on_gay_marriage_ban

As of now, the latest is:
She quotes from another case, if discrimination would be allowed, our children would be drinking from separate water fountains. The 14th Amendment would not tolerate those events, nor should they tolerate discrimination against gays and lesbians.
by Jim Schaefer 12:00 PM
We at times, have lost our footing, and sometimes our humanity. We rely on federal courts, sometimes, to tell us there are no second-class citizens in our country.
by Jim Schaefer 12:01 PM


Thanks for the link


The Supreme Court has provided guidance for this court, Stanyar says.

Good sign....
 
2013-10-16 03:23:54 PM
It always looked like a hand grabbing a weird penis. Now I can imagine a ring around traverse city.
 
2013-10-16 03:23:56 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: AngryDragon: This was the only good thing about the shutdown.  I didn't have to hear about gay marriage for a while.  I may get gay married just to spite the retards who are still making this an issue.  My girlfriend may not approve though.

It's happening, you lost, get over it.

Gyrfalcon: Nobody cares anymore. Deal with it.

Ummm... yeah, I care.  I care that I still can't get married in the majority of states.  I care that there are state constitutional amendments that specifically say I don't have the same rights as everyone else.  I care that leaving my home country and living as a guest worker affords me more legal protections from discrimination than staying in my beloved homeland (though that's not why I did it).  I care that the federal government has refused to do for all citizens what they did for people of color 50-60 years ago, because it might piss off religious people.

Please - if you support gay marriage, or simply are okay with it, then don't stop caring until the entire country joins the 21st century.


Support is a strong word for what I feel.

Against the state. Therefore, against all forms of civil marriage.
On the other hand, pro gay agenda and its subversion of American culture. Therfoere, pro any victories they acheive.
Sorta leaves me in an awkward not quite celebratory mood over these things.

Oh well, good luck anyway.
 
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