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(Crooks & Liars)   You know how any reasonable projection of US debt shows a line exponentially increasing off to infinity in the near future? Well, about that   (crooksandliars.com) divider line 48
    More: Interesting, national debt, Ebola virus, JCT, CBPP, House Republicans, revenue shortfall, Center on Budget, Boehner  
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2179 clicks; posted to Politics » on 16 Oct 2013 at 10:57 AM (43 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-16 10:18:06 AM
See also: Link
 
2013-10-16 11:03:47 AM
No, no one has ever really shown any data to suggest that, ever.

If data were at the core of republican objections to budgets, we could come up with a data driven solution.  Right now the choices are "give crying baby everything it wants to shut it up, or let crying baby ruin the business phone call we're on".

There are no scenarios where we can honestly deal with republican ideas, because the ideas themselves are dishonest.
 
2013-10-16 11:09:49 AM
I need a government credit card so I can print money whenever I decide I need something. Because printing money only makes the debt easier to pay off with future dollars, maybe we can inflate our way out of debt!

Yeah that will work!
 
2013-10-16 11:11:40 AM
Surely we can continue to spend without caps or debt limits.     We can alway print more money.

This talk about needing to watch what we spend is just crazy talk from crazy Teabaggers.
 
2013-10-16 11:11:48 AM

unreasonable ass: I need a government credit card so I can print money whenever I decide I need something. Because printing money only makes the debt easier to pay off with future dollars, maybe we can inflate our way out of debt!

Yeah that will work!


Your user name is truth in advertising.
 
2013-10-16 11:13:15 AM

ikanreed: No, no one has ever really shown any data to suggest that, ever.

If data were at the core of republican objections to budgets, we could come up with a data driven solution.  Right now the choices are "give crying baby everything it wants to shut it up, or let crying baby ruin the business phone call we're on".

There are no scenarios where we can honestly deal with republican ideas, because the ideas themselves are dishonest.


Yeah, well, Paul Ryan knows how to excel. He can multiply cells and everything. He is a numbers guy. I would explain it all, but there just is not enough time right now.

budget.house.gov
 
2013-10-16 11:13:49 AM
1. Nobody actually cares about the deficit.

2. There is no debt crisis.
 
2013-10-16 11:14:12 AM

unreasonable ass: I need a government credit card so I can print money whenever I decide I need something. Because printing money only makes the debt easier to pay off with future dollars, maybe we can inflate our way out of debt!

Yeah that will work!


Obviously the way to fix the economy is to trash it.

*rolls eyes*
 
2013-10-16 11:17:11 AM

netcentric: Surely we can continue to spend without caps or debt limits.     We can alway print more money.

This talk about needing to watch what we spend is just crazy talk from crazy Teabaggers.


How about responsibly addressing debt / spending concerns without trashing the economy?

The crazy talk is 'defaulting on the debt will actually be good for the economy'.
 
2013-10-16 11:18:58 AM

netcentric: Surely we can continue to spend without caps or debt limits.     We can alway print more money.

This talk about needing to watch what we spend is just crazy talk from crazy Teabaggers.


1) I don't think you understand what the debt ceiling is.
2) I don't think you understand the positive effects of some inflation on economic stability.
3) I'm not sure you understand economic growth.
4) I'm pretty sure you don't actually know where the debt/deficit/revenue numbers are.

Because your statement of 'needing to watch what we spend' is so overly simplistic and not attached to any discussion of the actual state of current levels of debt, deficit, revenue or the sources of each as to be unusable and unhelpful.

Banks, businesses and households take on debt all the time. It's often an economically POSITIVE action. Debt isn't a bad thing when used effectively.
 
2013-10-16 11:20:58 AM
Trolls are out in force today. I wonder why?
 
2013-10-16 11:21:32 AM

unreasonable ass: I need a government credit card so I can print money whenever I decide I need something. Because printing money only makes the debt easier to pay off with future dollars, maybe we can inflate our way out of debt!

Yeah that will work!


I need to cut my income in half while investing in a $50,000 home security system.  That way I can finally address my spending problem.  KEEP KIBBLER SAFE.
 
2013-10-16 11:22:59 AM

dsmith42: ikanreed: No, no one has ever really shown any data to suggest that, ever.

If data were at the core of republican objections to budgets, we could come up with a data driven solution.  Right now the choices are "give crying baby everything it wants to shut it up, or let crying baby ruin the business phone call we're on".

There are no scenarios where we can honestly deal with republican ideas, because the ideas themselves are dishonest.

Yeah, well, Paul Ryan knows how to excel. He can multiply cells and everything. He is a numbers guy. I would explain it all, but there just is not enough time right now.

[budget.house.gov image 600x448]


That chart is hilarious.
 
2013-10-16 11:26:27 AM
Budgetary fearmongering is the Southern Strategy by another name.
 
2013-10-16 11:45:15 AM
Wow. That link is what liberals actually believe NOW. How quickly lefties (including that lying cock Krugman) forget their hand wringing about the deficit ten years ago.

"Not even a hint of a crisis". Just mind boggling. We have two parties who take turns being grossly irresponsible when in power, while decrying the others irresponsibility when out of power:

GOP: "hey let's cut taxes, increase entitlement spending, and go start two wars. That'll work out great."

Dems: "no, that's terrible. You are bad and should feel bad. We'll tell you what we should do: Lets make 7/8ths of your tax cuts permanent, cut taxes more, and expand entitlement spending, creating larger deficits than we ever saw when you guys were in power. Oh, but we like what you did with the unsustainable social security and Medicare programs. Absolutely nothing sounds like a good solution. Fark the grand kids, right?"

GOP: "No, stupid. I have an idea: let's default."
 
2013-10-16 11:46:36 AM

StopLurkListen: Budgetary fearmongering is the Southern Strategy by another name.


Dick Cheney said deficits do not matter but he is from Wyoming.
 
2013-10-16 11:49:32 AM

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Your user name is truth in advertising.


You bet!
 
2013-10-16 11:51:58 AM
I will point out again that it is pretty stupid to get worked up about the dept ceiling if you voted to approve the spending that is causing us to hit it. I would love to cross-reference the politicians who pushed to keep weapons programs that the Military doesn't want against those who are spouting off about the dept ceiling.
 
2013-10-16 11:52:09 AM

theknuckler_33: Obviously the way to fix the economy is to trash it.

*rolls eyes*


Much like declaring bankruptcy, it fixes the short term problem, but doesn't address the long term problem of living outside your means.
 
2013-10-16 11:53:20 AM

Dusk-You-n-Me: 1. Nobody actually cares about the deficit.

2. There is no debt crisis.


said every person who ever filed for bankruptcy
 
2013-10-16 11:54:56 AM

grumpfuff: Trolls are out in force today. I wonder why?


They were noticeably absent yesterday. it's almost like they are paid, and had to wait for their instructions
 
2013-10-16 11:58:11 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Wow. That link is what liberals actually believe NOW. How quickly lefties (including that lying cock Krugman) forget their hand wringing about the deficit ten years ago.


Yeah, those concerns were right and are why we have a problem now.  And our issues now have very little to do with current spending.

You know that a huge percentage of the current debt came from Bush, right?  And not Obama?  And that continuing deficits can very much be blamed on permenant changes to capital gains rates during the Bush administration?  Like very measurably, Obama is being told to fix a problem that was caused then?  And that the most sensible solutions are off the table.   And once again deficits go down during a democratic administration after going up in a republican one.
 
2013-10-16 11:59:36 AM

unreasonable ass: Dusk-You-n-Me: 1. Nobody actually cares about the deficit.

2. There is no debt crisis.

said every person who ever filed for bankruptcy


Nope, not gonna work when the single biggest cause of bankruptcy in the US is medical bills, a situation you are trying to perpetuate among this nonsense.
 
2013-10-16 11:59:48 AM

BMulligan: dsmith42: ikanreed: No, no one has ever really shown any data to suggest that, ever.

If data were at the core of republican objections to budgets, we could come up with a data driven solution.  Right now the choices are "give crying baby everything it wants to shut it up, or let crying baby ruin the business phone call we're on".

There are no scenarios where we can honestly deal with republican ideas, because the ideas themselves are dishonest.

Yeah, well, Paul Ryan knows how to excel. He can multiply cells and everything. He is a numbers guy. I would explain it all, but there just is not enough time right now.

[budget.house.gov image 600x448]

That chart is hilarious.


The Path to Prosperity is just around the corner.
 
2013-10-16 12:00:59 PM
FTA: But as this CBO chart from May shows, Uncle Sam has been suffering from a revenue shortfall, not a spending binge.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but it has been both.  The deficits have not been over 1 trillion just due to a dip in revenue.  It has been a dip in revenue and an increase in spending.  There is really no arguing otherwise.
www.taxnetwealth.com
 
2013-10-16 12:01:35 PM
I other news:
Reid: Here is a compromise bill we can all agree on
Boehner: Ok, looks good to me
Reid: Nevermind, just kidding
 
2013-10-16 12:03:09 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: 1. Nobody actually cares about the deficit.

2. There is no debt crisis.


Wrong and wrong.  Your percentage is way down today.
 
2013-10-16 12:08:30 PM

ikanreed: Debeo Summa Credo: Wow. That link is what liberals actually believe NOW. How quickly lefties (including that lying cock Krugman) forget their hand wringing about the deficit ten years ago.

Yeah, those concerns were right and are why we have a problem now.  And our issues now have very little to do with current spending.

You know that a huge percentage of the current debt came from Bush, right?  And not Obama?  And that continuing deficits can very much be blamed on permenant changes to capital gains rates during the Bush administration?  Like very measurably, Obama is being told to fix a problem that was caused then?  And that the most sensible solutions are off the table.   And once again deficits go down during a democratic administration after going up in a republican one.


Obama made roughly 7/8ths of the Bush tax cuts permanent. Is that how you deal with a problem? Wouldn't a "sensible solution" have been to let all of them expire as they had been scheduled to do?
 
2013-10-16 12:14:58 PM

ikanreed: unreasonable ass: Dusk-You-n-Me: 1. Nobody actually cares about the deficit.

2. There is no debt crisis.

said every person who ever filed for bankruptcy

Nope, not gonna work when the single biggest cause of bankruptcy in the US is medical bills, a situation you are trying to perpetuate among this nonsense.


Yeah, if I have to buy medical insurance that covers pregnancy, obstetrics it will save me from bankruptcy ... not
My employer sponsored plan has a 30% copay .. I'm ok with that; it has $40 office visits; I'm ok with that; it has a $13000 deductible; I'm ok with that ... my premium portion is $600 a month .. I'm not ok with that!

I don't qualify for one of those handy subsidies nor do I qualify for insurance through the exchange. I can't afford a $600 premium so my only affordable option is to pay the penalty .. on the positive side, at least now when I get sick and go to the doctor, I can tell them to send the bill to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

So, I am either bankrupt from paying for insurance I cannot afford or paying for doctor bills I cannot afford ... look!!! the sky IS falling!!!
 
2013-10-16 12:17:46 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: ikanreed: Debeo Summa Credo: Wow. That link is what liberals actually believe NOW. How quickly lefties (including that lying cock Krugman) forget their hand wringing about the deficit ten years ago.

Yeah, those concerns were right and are why we have a problem now.  And our issues now have very little to do with current spending.

You know that a huge percentage of the current debt came from Bush, right?  And not Obama?  And that continuing deficits can very much be blamed on permenant changes to capital gains rates during the Bush administration?  Like very measurably, Obama is being told to fix a problem that was caused then?  And that the most sensible solutions are off the table.   And once again deficits go down during a democratic administration after going up in a republican one.

Obama made roughly 7/8ths of the Bush tax cuts permanent. Is that how you deal with a problem? Wouldn't a "sensible solution" have been to let all of them expire as they had been scheduled to do?


Oh yes, that wasn't done in the face of threatening to destroy the economy(yes it was).  Obama negotiated with terrorists, and that enabled them to do it again.
 
2013-10-16 12:21:47 PM

unreasonable ass: ikanreed: unreasonable ass: Dusk-You-n-Me: 1. Nobody actually cares about the deficit.

2. There is no debt crisis.

said every person who ever filed for bankruptcy

Nope, not gonna work when the single biggest cause of bankruptcy in the US is medical bills, a situation you are trying to perpetuate among this nonsense.

Yeah, if I have to buy medical insurance that covers pregnancy, obstetrics it will save me from bankruptcy ... not
My employer sponsored plan has a 30% copay .. I'm ok with that; it has $40 office visits; I'm ok with that; it has a $13000 deductible; I'm ok with that ... my premium portion is $600 a month .. I'm not ok with that!

I don't qualify for one of those handy subsidies nor do I qualify for insurance through the exchange. I can't afford a $600 premium so my only affordable option is to pay the penalty .. on the positive side, at least now when I get sick and go to the doctor, I can tell them to send the bill to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

So, I am either bankrupt from paying for insurance I cannot afford or paying for doctor bills I cannot afford ... look!!! the sky IS falling!!!


This entire posts reads like sarcasm.  There is no way you could mean everything you just said, but in context it appears you must.
 
2013-10-16 12:32:32 PM

theknuckler_33: The crazy talk is 'defaulting on the debt will actually be good for the economy'.


True.  But the crazy talk is also 'there is no debt problem'.
 
2013-10-16 12:32:47 PM

ikanreed: Debeo Summa Credo: ikanreed: Debeo Summa Credo: Wow. That link is what liberals actually believe NOW. How quickly lefties (including that lying cock Krugman) forget their hand wringing about the deficit ten years ago.

Yeah, those concerns were right and are why we have a problem now.  And our issues now have very little to do with current spending.

You know that a huge percentage of the current debt came from Bush, right?  And not Obama?  And that continuing deficits can very much be blamed on permenant changes to capital gains rates during the Bush administration?  Like very measurably, Obama is being told to fix a problem that was caused then?  And that the most sensible solutions are off the table.   And once again deficits go down during a democratic administration after going up in a republican one.

Obama made roughly 7/8ths of the Bush tax cuts permanent. Is that how you deal with a problem? Wouldn't a "sensible solution" have been to let all of them expire as they had been scheduled to do?

Oh yes, that wasn't done in the face of threatening to destroy the economy(yes it was).  Obama negotiated with terrorists, and that enabled them to do it again.


It was done in January of this year. Had nothing to do with debt ceiling or shutdown. Obama and the dems wanted to permanently extend 7/8ths of Bush tax cuts.
 
2013-10-16 01:03:05 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: ikanreed: Debeo Summa Credo: ikanreed: Debeo Summa Credo: Wow. That link is what liberals actually believe NOW. How quickly lefties (including that lying cock Krugman) forget their hand wringing about the deficit ten years ago.

Yeah, those concerns were right and are why we have a problem now.  And our issues now have very little to do with current spending.

You know that a huge percentage of the current debt came from Bush, right?  And not Obama?  And that continuing deficits can very much be blamed on permenant changes to capital gains rates during the Bush administration?  Like very measurably, Obama is being told to fix a problem that was caused then?  And that the most sensible solutions are off the table.   And once again deficits go down during a democratic administration after going up in a republican one.

Obama made roughly 7/8ths of the Bush tax cuts permanent. Is that how you deal with a problem? Wouldn't a "sensible solution" have been to let all of them expire as they had been scheduled to do?

Oh yes, that wasn't done in the face of threatening to destroy the economy(yes it was).  Obama negotiated with terrorists, and that enabled them to do it again.

It was done in January of this year. Had nothing to do with debt ceiling or shutdown. Obama and the dems wanted to permanently extend 7/8ths of Bush tax cuts.


Yeah, but that was to avoid the sequester (for another two months, at least). Obviously, we hit the sequester anyway, but they were trying to avoid a supposed "poison pill". (Little did they know...)
 
2013-10-16 01:03:14 PM

unreasonable ass: said every person who ever filed for bankruptcy


America will never go bankrupt.

HeadLever: Wrong and wrong.


There is no debt crisis. And nobody actually cares about the deficit. A recent example of this is both sides trying to kill the medical device tax. It survived, but likely will not survive the year.
 
2013-10-16 01:08:04 PM

HeadLever: FTA: But as this CBO chart from May shows, Uncle Sam has been suffering from a revenue shortfall, not a spending binge.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but it has been both.  The deficits have not been over 1 trillion just due to a dip in revenue.  It has been a dip in revenue and an increase in spending.  There is really no arguing otherwise.
[www.taxnetwealth.com image 800x427]


I notice that chart is "adapted" from reputable data. I want to know who did the "adapting" and what assumptions they were making, because that graph only makes sense if you assume (a) skyrocketing interest rates, and (b) no economic growth.
 
2013-10-16 01:21:40 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: And nobody actually cares about the deficit


BMulligan: I notice that chart is "adapted" from reputable data. I want to know who did the "adapting" and what assumptions they were making, because that graph only makes sense if you assume (a) skyrocketing interest rates, and (b) no economic growth.


See Table 5 here (pdf)

That graph makes sense because debt continues to climb (see chart 6), thereby, increasing the interest payment.  This analysis assumes a normalization of interest rates but skyrocketing.
 
2013-10-16 01:24:39 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: And nobody actually cares about the deficit.


Read the report linked above.  They care about the deficits greatly.
 
2013-10-16 01:25:39 PM

HeadLever: Read the report linked above. They care about the deficits greatly.


It's their job to do so. Lawmakers don't care.
 
2013-10-16 01:27:15 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: It's their job to do so. Lawmakers don't care.


Your statement was that nobody cares.  Are you backtracking from that statement or just moving the goalpost?
 
2013-10-16 01:31:31 PM

HeadLever: Dusk-You-n-Me: And nobody actually cares about the deficit

BMulligan: I notice that chart is "adapted" from reputable data. I want to know who did the "adapting" and what assumptions they were making, because that graph only makes sense if you assume (a) skyrocketing interest rates, and (b) no economic growth.

See Table 5 here (pdf)

That graph makes sense because debt continues to climb (see chart 6), thereby, increasing the interest payment.  This analysis assumes a normalization of interest rates but skyrocketing.


What I gleaned from reading your link is that if we do nothing to bring revenues up to a reasonable level, and if interest rates increase, and if we make absolutely no changes to Social Security and Medicare, we'll be boned in 20 or 30 years. Seems like a pretty manageable problem to me.
 
2013-10-16 01:34:29 PM

HeadLever: Your statement was that nobody cares. Are you backtracking from that statement or just moving the goalpost?


Let me rephrase. Nobody who is in a position to do anything about it actually cares about the deficit.
 
2013-10-16 01:40:47 PM

BMulligan: What I gleaned from reading your link is that if we do nothing to bring revenues up to a reasonable level,


If you look at the revenues, they do return to 'reasonable' levels. See how that 'total reciepts' line increases to about 19% of GDP and stays there?  I also think that we can expect interest rates to go up eventuallly.  And yes, Medicare and SS are going to be the big drivers of our deficts and debt going forward if nothing is done.
 
2013-10-16 01:41:56 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: Nobody who is in a position to do anything about it actually cares about the deficit.


We are all in a position to do someething about it, namley; QUIT ELECTING FISCAL RETARDS.
 
2013-10-16 02:02:05 PM

HeadLever: BMulligan: What I gleaned from reading your link is that if we do nothing to bring revenues up to a reasonable level,

If you look at the revenues, they do return to 'reasonable' levels. See how that 'total reciepts' line increases to about 19% of GDP and stays there?  I also think that we can expect interest rates to go up eventuallly.  And yes, Medicare and SS are going to be the big drivers of our deficts and debt going forward if nothing is done.


So, suppose we add $20,000 to the Social Security withholding threshold. Now what?
 
2013-10-16 02:27:20 PM

BMulligan: Now what?


Total reciepts would likely tick up a little bit.  to what extent, you would have to ask the CBO/GAO.
 
2013-10-17 06:57:49 AM

SwiftFox: BMulligan: dsmith42: ikanreed: No, no one has ever really shown any data to suggest that, ever.

If data were at the core of republican objections to budgets, we could come up with a data driven solution.  Right now the choices are "give crying baby everything it wants to shut it up, or let crying baby ruin the business phone call we're on".

There are no scenarios where we can honestly deal with republican ideas, because the ideas themselves are dishonest.

Yeah, well, Paul Ryan knows how to excel. He can multiply cells and everything. He is a numbers guy. I would explain it all, but there just is not enough time right now.

[budget.house.gov image 600x448]

That chart is hilarious.

The Path to Prosperity is just around the corner.


Is that thing real?  It claims to come from house.gov...

Wow, how does this not violate some rule about corruption?
 
2013-10-17 10:36:46 AM

TheBigJerk: Is that thing real?


Yes, the projected debt comes from the CBO/GAO.   Not sure if the CBO reviewed his 'Path to Prosperity' budget or not.  IIRC, they did.

Wow, how does this not violate some rule about corruption?

Which part?  I don't see anything in there that screams corruption.  Please enlighten us.
 
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