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(Popular Science)   We would die from inhaling 13/1,000,000,000 of a gram of it and terrorists can make a bio-weapon out of it, but hell... gotta make damn wrinkles magically disappear, so lets inject our faces full of it   (popsci.com) divider line 33
    More: Scary, DNA, Botox Treatment, incurable, California Department of Public Health, scientific information  
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5551 clicks; posted to Geek » on 16 Oct 2013 at 9:21 AM (38 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



33 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-10-16 09:17:29 AM
Sign me up.
disparatehuisvrouw.com
 
2013-10-16 09:29:19 AM
But if I inhale 12ng I will be ok?
 
2013-10-16 09:33:09 AM

Because People in power are Stupid: Sign me up.
[disparatehuisvrouw.com image 399x465]


Prince Humperdinck: First things first, to the death.

Westley: No. To the plastic

.Prince Humperdinck: I don't think I'm quite familiar with that phrase.

Westley: I'll explain and I'll use small words so that you'll be sure to understand, you warthog faced buffoon.

Prince Humperdinck: That may be the first time in my life a man has dared insult me.

Westley: It won't be the last. To the plastic means the first thing you will lose will be all fat below the waist. Then your lips will be shoved full of collagen, swollen. Next your nose.

Prince Humperdinck: And then my tongue I suppose, I killed you too quickly the last time. A mistake I don't mean to duplicate tonight.

Westley: I wasn't finished. The next thing you will lose will be your left cheek followed by your right.


Prince Humperdinck: And then my ears, I understand let's get on with it.

Westley: WRONG. Your ears you keep and I'll tell you why. So that every shriek of every child at seeing your hideousness will be yours to cherish. Every babe that weeps at your approach, every woman who cries out, "Dear God! What is that thing," will echo in your perfect ears. That is what to the pain means. It means I leave you in anguish, wallowing in freakish misery forever.
 
2013-10-16 09:37:51 AM
You gotta watch out for The Botch. It'll get ya good.
 
2013-10-16 09:45:03 AM

Saiga410: But if I inhale 12ng I will be ok?


Yes, but please consult your physician before doing so.

Common side effects from the drugs include nausea, bacon allergies, dizziness and skin irritation, diarrhea or loose stools, abdominal pain, and vomiting, uneven heartbeats, loss of appetite, dark urine, clay-colored stools, jaundice, fever, rash, red skin, headache, strong case of stupid and possible loss of Total Fark membership.

You should call your doctor and inform about such symptoms or get immediate medical attention.
 
2013-10-16 09:58:45 AM

that1guy77: Saiga410: But if I inhale 12ng I will be ok?

Yes, but please consult your physician before doing so.

Common side effects from the drugs include nausea, bacon allergies, dizziness and skin irritation, diarrhea or loose stools, abdominal pain, and vomiting, uneven heartbeats, loss of appetite, dark urine, clay-colored stools, jaundice, fever, rash, red skin, headache, strong case of stupid and possible loss of Total Fark membership.

You should call your doctor and inform about such symptoms or get immediate medical attention.


OMG bacon allergies... a fate worse than death.
 
2013-10-16 10:04:52 AM
I have never understood the fascination with Botox, knowing that it originated as botulism.

/closing in on 50, doing fine with the wrinkles I have on my face.
 
2013-10-16 10:05:58 AM
You would die from inhaling 13/1,000,000,000 of a gram of it.

So what? There are lots of things that are low risk until they're aerosolized. Is there some legitimate risk of that happening with this stuff or were you just pointing out a technically true fact just to try and sound scary?
 
2013-10-16 10:17:26 AM
Subby is just being a modern journalist.
 
2013-10-16 10:41:48 AM
It is pretty hard to weaponize botulism. Not terribly worried.
 
2013-10-16 10:45:46 AM

skozlaw: You would die from inhaling 13/1,000,000,000 of a gram of it.

So what? There are lots of things that are low risk until they're aerosolized. Is there some legitimate risk of that happening with this stuff or were you just pointing out a technically true fact just to try and sound scary?


Pretty much. Making effective bioweapons and delivery systems is technically quite hard from what I understand. Yeah there are lots of bacteria and viruses out there that can potentially be really effective, but trying to weaponize them is very difficult and very expensive. You would be better off just dumping lots of cultured bacteria into a water supply or food or something to "spread terror." I doubt most people without significant money and lab space could effectively aerosolize botulism toxin.
 
2013-10-16 10:55:27 AM
BOTOX is also a very effective treatment for migraines.  Just saying.
 
2013-10-16 11:15:21 AM

skozlaw: You would die from inhaling 13/1,000,000,000 of a gram of it.

So what? There are lots of things that are low risk until they're aerosolized. Is there some legitimate risk of that happening with this stuff or were you just pointing out a technically true fact just to try and sound scary?


Heh. Can you say "Dust Air Initiator"? Sure you can. And that sound you just heard was the reflexive ass-clenching of every ex-military person in hearing range.
 
2013-10-16 11:17:14 AM
There is NO chemical that you can DIE from by injecting/inhaling just 13 BILLIONTHS of a gram of.
Inhaling 13 BILLIONTHS of a gram of a pure sample of the BACTERIA that MAKES botulinum toxin, perhaps.

It's the toxin you inject into your face to relax muscles, not the bacteria.

This sort of mistake seems to be super-common in the Media these days. Why can't they get a single "science" article correct??
 
2013-10-16 11:25:18 AM
Too much of anything is bad for you, technically speaking.
 
2013-10-16 11:39:45 AM
So we're all good with them hiding information right?

/move along
 
2013-10-16 12:08:17 PM

haemaker: BOTOX is also a very effective treatment for migraines.  Just saying.


It's also used for treatment of uncontrollable eyelid spasms.  Imagine if your lids twitched 24/7.

In fact, that's where Botox treatment for wrinkles came from.  They started using it to control those spasms, and realized that it made the wrinkles disappear.
 
2013-10-16 12:25:57 PM

FritzTrotsky: There is NO chemical that you can DIE from by injecting/inhaling just 13 BILLIONTHS of a gram of.
Inhaling 13 BILLIONTHS of a gram of a pure sample of the BACTERIA that MAKES botulinum toxin, perhaps.


The LD50 of botulinum toxin is 1-3 ng/kg body weight. So no, 13 ng probably won't kill you but 130 ng very likely will.
 
2013-10-16 12:51:20 PM
This is the first time scientists have kept a DNA sequence secret because of terrorism concerns.


Bull. shiat.
 
2013-10-16 01:22:42 PM

FritzTrotsky: There is NO chemical that you can DIE from by injecting/inhaling just 13 BILLIONTHS of a gram of.
Inhaling 13 BILLIONTHS of a gram of a pure sample of the BACTERIA that MAKES botulinum toxin, perhaps.

It's the toxin you inject into your face to relax muscles, not the bacteria.

This sort of mistake seems to be super-common in the Media these days. Why can't they get a single "science" article correct??


The liberals in media failed at every other major and are too flabby to major in PE.
 
2013-10-16 01:25:24 PM
What I dislike is:

1) They announced they had found something but it's 'secret'
2) They announced the source of their results
3) It spawned terrible farking articles.
 
2013-10-16 01:40:57 PM

TofuTheAlmighty: FritzTrotsky: There is NO chemical that you can DIE from by injecting/inhaling just 13 BILLIONTHS of a gram of.
Inhaling 13 BILLIONTHS of a gram of a pure sample of the BACTERIA that MAKES botulinum toxin, perhaps.

The LD50 of botulinum toxin is 1-3 ng/kg body weight. So no, 13 ng probably won't kill you but 130 ng very likely will.


Yet another health benefit for being overweight.
 
2013-10-16 02:13:12 PM
Whatever you do, don't let the Republicans get near it.
 
2013-10-16 03:22:18 PM

Phil Moskowitz: This is the first time scientists have kept a DNA sequence secret because of terrorism concerns.


Bull. shiat.


If you put in the stipulation of non-government scientists working at Universities it might be true. There was a similar debate around the time of publishing some results on what mutations with one of the bird flu strains would make it more infectious or more lethal. But I think they went ahead and published the data anyway.

Most of us lean towards publishing the data anyway, because contributing to general knowledge is more important than some perceived risks.
 
rpm
2013-10-16 03:53:53 PM

KJUW89: I have never understood the fascination with Botox, knowing that it originated as botulism.

/closing in on 50, doing fine with the wrinkles I have on my face.


Lots of medicines started as poisons or toxins, so meh.
Hell, the point of natural caffeine is to be a poison.
 
2013-10-16 07:07:30 PM
In the wating room yesterday at a surgical hospital, there was an ad for using botox to cure migraines.
Botox, is there nothing you cant do ?
 
2013-10-16 10:16:30 PM

TofuTheAlmighty: FritzTrotsky: There is NO chemical that you can DIE from by injecting/inhaling just 13 BILLIONTHS of a gram of.
Inhaling 13 BILLIONTHS of a gram of a pure sample of the BACTERIA that MAKES botulinum toxin, perhaps.

The LD50 of botulinum toxin is 1-3 ng/kg body weight. So no, 13 ng probably won't kill you but 130 ng very likely will.


Also, inhaling Clostridium botulinum probably won't kill you, either.  It's an anaerobe, so it's not going to be happy in the lung to begin with, and your immune system will almost certainly clear it out before any trouble starts.
 
2013-10-17 04:16:14 AM
I can drink two liters of water but I'd die if I inhaled it.
 
2013-10-17 06:54:15 AM

Eirik: haemaker: BOTOX is also a very effective treatment for migraines.  Just saying.

It's also used for treatment of uncontrollable eyelid spasms.  Imagine if your lids twitched 24/7.

In fact, that's where Botox treatment for wrinkles came from.  They started using it to control those spasms, and realized that it made the wrinkles disappear.


I have injections in my neck and localized sites to combat pain from pressed discs.
 
2013-10-17 06:57:42 AM

alienated: In the wating room yesterday at a surgical hospital, there was an ad for using botox to cure migraines.
Botox, is there nothing you cant do ?


It works pretty good for someone I know. Unfortunately, it is often needed in the same muscles you paralyze to stop forehead wrinkles.
So, next time you're talking to someone whose eyebrows don't go up and down like the rest of us, it just might not be vanity.
 
2013-10-17 10:32:15 AM
I think folks don't understand how an enzymatic toxin works.

Botulinum Toxin (BT) has reported LD50's down to 0.03 nanograms per kilogram.  That means that 50% of 100kg people can expect to die from a dose of 3ng, according to a study's protocol. (I doubt they tested this against significant numbers of 100kg people.  I'm going to be equally surprised if they used large numbers of 100kg rats or mice, so at some level we're comparing apples and oranges.  However, it is likely that botulinium toxin is not strictly weight dependent when it comes to dosage.  I'll get in to that in a minute)

When you talk about these weapons, you're talking about systems.  It's not just the lethality of the toxin (for the most part), many other factors have huge impacts on the final effectiveness.  The delivery system is a big deal.  Many weapons use an explosive charge to disseminate the payload.  If the toxin is at all sensitive, this delivery system will nullify much of the toxin dose.  However, this type of delivery system is incredibly easy for anyone to implement.  Another weapon system we have experience with is the Aum attack using sarin in the Tokyo subways.  These folks took a very lethal chemical (although it can't hold a candle to BT.  BT is orders of magnitudes more toxic), almost ideal conditions, and a crappy delivery system.  They took fragile canisters, put them on the floor, and punctured them with umbrellas, and walked away.  Their potential targets numbered in the thousands, maybe the tens of thousands.  They killed 11.  Crappy delivery.  Less than 1cc on your skin would kill you.  You'd have to inhale even less to die pretty quickly.

BT is FAR more toxic.  A salt shaker full would easily kill the East Coast, but you'd need that killer delivery system to get the nanoscopic dose to each victim.

BT is so toxic because of it's mechanism of action.  The toxin disrupts your nerve's ability to transmit signals, and then moves on to the next receptor site.  The toxin isn't consumed after it does its damage.  Things like cyanide, most nerve agents, etc, are "burned up" when they do their magic.  BT doesn't need to do this, so that little dose will do you.

Don't worry too much about being hit with the bacterial strain.  Yeah, it will kill you.  It can even do some nasty things in wounds.  Inhaling the bacterium probably isn't too big a deal, unless you get a significant dose.  The toxin is really where it's at.
Well, unless you're a very small child.  Botulinum is why you see warnings on honey not to feed it to infants.  We call it "Floppy Baby Syndrome".  I know, not nice, but that's exactly what it looks like when you walk in the door and see the child in the parents' arms.

This stuff is phenomenally lethal, and really not that hard to manufacture.  Manufacture in quantity, safely, and in an easily usable fashion, that's another question.  I think someone could "soup this up" in their kitchen, but they could easily slime themselves in the effort.
 
2013-10-17 11:54:38 AM
This is just viral marketing for the new season of 24
 
2013-10-17 01:03:05 PM
Never buy dented cans at the Grocery Store.
 
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