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(KPHO Phoenix)   Police warn family about pending home invasion then post cars out front to deter it from happening...ok I made that last part up though it would have made sense to do so, wouldn't it?   (kpho.com) divider line 82
    More: Obvious, home invasions, Phoenix Police Department, KPHO  
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7203 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Oct 2013 at 2:07 AM (26 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-15 11:53:52 PM
Yes, it would have. It would also have made sense for the family to GET THE F*CK OUT OF THE HOUSE FOR A NIGHT.
 
2013-10-15 11:56:30 PM
They couldn't be out front in their cars and doing the home invasion, too

/sheesh... I gotta splain everything around here
 
2013-10-16 12:49:19 AM

fusillade762: Yes, it would have. It would also have made sense for the family to GET THE F*CK OUT OF THE HOUSE FOR A NIGHT.


FTFA:

"None of us thought that, you know, it was something that was serious because if it was, I wouldn't ... none of us would have been home that night," Montes said.

Jesus Christ, no kidding. "Hey, these cops have come in and questioned everyone then warned us that someone was coming to f*ck shiat up. WHAT'S THE WORST THAT COULD HAPPEN?"

Still, no excuse for the police not to be there that night. I'm wondering what the dead guy was involved with where informants knew that this sort of thing was coming.
 
2013-10-16 01:52:09 AM
It's bad. It's not Baltimore bad, but it's bad.
 
2013-10-16 02:14:17 AM

Cagey B: fusillade762: Yes, it would have. It would also have made sense for the family to GET THE F*CK OUT OF THE HOUSE FOR A NIGHT.

FTFA:

"None of us thought that, you know, it was something that was serious because if it was, I wouldn't ... none of us would have been home that night," Montes said.

Jesus Christ, no kidding. "Hey, these cops have come in and questioned everyone then warned us that someone was coming to f*ck shiat up. WHAT'S THE WORST THAT COULD HAPPEN?"

Still, no excuse for the police not to be there that night. I'm wondering what the dead guy was involved with where informants knew that this sort of thing was coming.


Police are not there to be your personal security.

They are there to generate revenue for the city.
 
2013-10-16 02:17:33 AM
I'm usually all "fark the police" in these stories.... but the cops DID warn the family to not be there.
 
2013-10-16 02:18:15 AM
FTA: Montes said she is considering legal action against the city.

Somebody is about to learn the police have zero legal obligation to protect anyone.
 
2013-10-16 02:20:04 AM
Was that the only american household without at least one gun?
 
2013-10-16 02:20:43 AM
They should have at least set some traps....

images.wikia.com
 
2013-10-16 02:22:40 AM
I'm gonna have to go out on a limb and defend the Phoenix Police here. In my dealings with them they are stupid, lazy, and unimaginative.
 
2013-10-16 02:30:33 AM
FTFA: Police suggested to the family that they stay somewhere else.
Montes said the family members just looked at each other and asked police if they were serious. They said they were.

[...]
They didn't say, 'You guys know this is serious and you need to leave.'


Umm, yeah, the police kinda did say that it was serious and they need to leave, it's really not the fault of the police if the family was expecting the warning to be in some sort of secret code.

/Can we nominate the family for a Darwin award please? Or at least an honorable mention?
 
2013-10-16 02:33:37 AM

WhoGAS: Cagey B: fusillade762: Yes, it would have. It would also have made sense for the family to GET THE F*CK OUT OF THE HOUSE FOR A NIGHT.

FTFA:

"None of us thought that, you know, it was something that was serious because if it was, I wouldn't ... none of us would have been home that night," Montes said.

Jesus Christ, no kidding. "Hey, these cops have come in and questioned everyone then warned us that someone was coming to f*ck shiat up. WHAT'S THE WORST THAT COULD HAPPEN?"

Still, no excuse for the police not to be there that night. I'm wondering what the dead guy was involved with where informants knew that this sort of thing was coming.

Police are not there to be your personal security.

They are there to generate revenue for the city.


And to protect the property of people who matter.
 
2013-10-16 02:35:01 AM
FTA:  That's when Montes said police told them that a confidential informant said the Montes home would be the target of a home invasion. Police suggested to the family that they stay somewhere else.
Montes said the family members just looked at each other and asked police if they were serious. They said they were


And later in the article:  "They didn't offer us any protection, none of us. They didn't say, 'You guys know this is serious and you need to leave.' Or, 'We'll post somebody here,' or 'We'll have somebody patrol,'" Montes said.

She confirmed police suggested that they may want to leave.


And even later in the article:  Montes said she is considering legal action against the city.

Of course she is...
 
2013-10-16 02:42:56 AM
The cops sent a bunch of people, searched my house, interviewed me, and told me to go elsewhere because there was reason to think trouble might be on its way, but they didn't grab me by the lapels and scream it in my face so they're at fault.

Sheesh.
 
2013-10-16 02:53:03 AM
The police have no duty to protect you. SCOTUS has said so.

Some interesting reading on this:  http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=disp l ay_arch&article_id=341&issue_id=72004
 
2013-10-16 02:56:00 AM

Cagey B: fusillade762: Yes, it would have. It would also have made sense for the family to GET THE F*CK OUT OF THE HOUSE FOR A NIGHT.

FTFA:

"None of us thought that, you know, it was something that was serious because if it was, I wouldn't ... none of us would have been home that night," Montes said.

Jesus Christ, no kidding. "Hey, these cops have come in and questioned everyone then warned us that someone was coming to f*ck shiat up. WHAT'S THE WORST THAT COULD HAPPEN?"

Still, no excuse for the police not to be there that night. I'm wondering what the dead guy was involved with where informants knew that this sort of thing was

There is no point here.

 
2013-10-16 03:27:46 AM
The police cannot save you, people.  You can't outsource defending your family. Man up. Buy a gun. And quit whining like a pansie when the police aren't there.  The police are NEVER there when you need them.  "When seconds count, the police are just minutes away."
 
2013-10-16 03:39:07 AM
They really need to update those logos on their cruisers, then.

/protect and serve jack shiat.
 
2013-10-16 03:42:31 AM

chaosweaver: They really need to update those logos on their cruisers, then.

/protect and serve jack shiat the 1%.


FTFM
 
2013-10-16 03:42:33 AM
So, let's see:

The cops came in and warned these fools someone was coming to kill them--they chose to stay home and someone did indeed come in and kill them--yet it's the cops fault for not sitting outside to stop the people from coming to kill them.

Alternate theories of liability: A) Had the cops stayed out front, they would have been liable for any/all family members killed in the crossfire.
B) Had they dragged the family away forcibly and nothing happened (because the family wasn't home) they'd have been liable for false imprisonment.
C) Had the cops stayed out front and nothing happened, they'd have been liable for negligent or intentional infliction of emotional distress.
D) Had the cops stayed out front, the killers drove up & the cops shot them, they'd have been liable to the families of the killers for "lying in wait" or possibly entrapment.
E) Had the cops stayed out front and everything went down just like it did, they would still be liable anyway for not catching the killers a block away because they knew they were coming so why weren't they sitting a block away instead of right in front of the house?

So take heart, citizens! If the cops know you're going to be killed, they'll never bother to warn you again, because legally it just isn't worth it.
 
2013-10-16 03:42:56 AM

dukwbutter: The police cannot save you, people.  You can't outsource defending your family. Man up. Buy a gun. And quit whining like a pansie when the police aren't there.  The police are NEVER there when you need them.  "When seconds count, the police are just minutes away."


Except in this case the police WERE there. They conducted surveillance on the house the night they expected the invasion to occur, and when it didn't, they warned the family that they had reason to believe they were in danger and strongly suggested to leave the house. They then conducted surveillance on the people they thought would be doing the invasion, but they got the wrong people.

What more would you have expected of the police in this situation? The police WERE there whe this family needed them and took very reasonable actions to protect the family. The police can't be faulted for the failure of those people to follow their recommendations.
 
2013-10-16 04:02:40 AM
policed warn
police were asked if serious
police confirmed being serious
family decides that police not serious due to trust issues

curious tho why the house would need to be searched first, before any warning could be given
 
2013-10-16 04:07:14 AM
That police warned them was the distance of their protection they probably didn't even have to do that.
 
2013-10-16 04:37:58 AM
This is a weird story. Why did they invade and kill that guy? And the informant knew about it beforehand? There has to be some reason. People don't plan to bust into a random dude's house and kill him for no reason and tell people about it before they do it.
 
2013-10-16 04:43:05 AM
No subby, that wouldn't have made sense, this is real life not some TV show. You can't just post police officers at a persons house indefinitely on the odd chance something happens.  They were warned and chose to ignore that warning.
 
2013-10-16 04:44:33 AM

ransack.: This is a weird story. Why did they invade and kill that guy? And the informant knew about it beforehand? There has to be some reason. People don't plan to bust into a random dude's house and kill him for no reason and tell people about it before they do it.


Speak for yourself.
 
2013-10-16 04:47:24 AM

ReapTheChaos: No subby, that wouldn't have made sense, this is real life not some TV show. You can't just post police officers at a persons house indefinitely on the odd chance something happens.  They were warned and chose to ignore that warning.


It would have been counter-productive and a waste of taxes anyway, because it says whoever did this detected the previous surveillance and was just playing the waiting game until the target was unprotected. So extended surveillance would have been an expensive full-time two-detective day-to-day delay of the inevitable.
 
2013-10-16 04:51:31 AM

CruiserTwelve: dukwbutter: The police cannot save you, people.  You can't outsource defending your family. Man up. Buy a gun. And quit whining like a pansie when the police aren't there.  The police are NEVER there when you need them.  "When seconds count, the police are just minutes away."

Except in this case the police WERE there. They conducted surveillance on the house the night they expected the invasion to occur, and when it didn't, they warned the family that they had reason to believe they were in danger and strongly suggested to leave the house. They then conducted surveillance on the people they thought would be doing the invasion, but they got the wrong people.

What more would you have expected of the police in this situation? The police WERE there whe this family needed them and took very reasonable actions to protect the family. The police can't be faulted for the failure of those people to follow their recommendations.


Except the police "WEREN'T" there, as witnessed by the fact that the home invaders murdered the patriarch of the family, and the police didn't stop them, because the police weren't there.  I don't want the police to do anything. I don't expect the police to do anything.  I'm smart enough to know that the police can't defend me and keep me safe.  That's why I'm armed to the teeth.  I sleep with a pistol and a rifle by my bed.  It this man had done the same, he'd be alive today.  fark the police.
 
2013-10-16 04:52:11 AM
Why does it feel like we are getting 1/10 of the story here.
 
2013-10-16 04:53:12 AM

Fafai: ransack.: This is a weird story. Why did they invade and kill that guy? And the informant knew about it beforehand? There has to be some reason. People don't plan to bust into a random dude's house and kill him for no reason and tell people about it before they do it.

Speak for yourself.


Well, one guy might. But not a few dudes. There's no way there are alliances of psychopathic cop-outsmarting thrill-killers roaming the streets.

...Right?
 
2013-10-16 04:54:07 AM

Nacc: That police warned them was the distance of their protection they probably didn't even have to do that.


The police are not obligated to do anything, including protecting people from being murdered.  You think that's what they're for, but they're really not.  They really just write tickets to generate revenue to hire more cops.  But they are certainly not obligated to save people's lives.
 
2013-10-16 04:55:26 AM
The cops did more than they legally had to here.  I'm guessing some one in the family knew that.
 
2013-10-16 04:58:57 AM

bindlestiff2600: policed warn
police were asked if serious
police confirmed being serious
family decides that police not serious due to trust issues

curious tho why the house would need to be searched first, before any warning could be given


PC that someone (probably a younger relative) was involved in a crime they were investigating.

I'm guessing said relative jacked a dealer or rival gangbanger.
 
2013-10-16 05:40:39 AM

Another Government Employee: bindlestiff2600: policed warn
police were asked if serious
police confirmed being serious
family decides that police not serious due to trust issues

curious tho why the house would need to be searched first, before any warning could be given

PC that someone (probably a younger relative) was involved in a crime they were investigating.

I'm guessing said relative jacked a dealer or rival gangbanger.


Too bad the government doesn't allow people to sue or prosecute or otherwise seek any type of non-murder retribution for stolen cocaine and forces the aggrieved party to retaliate with violent crime. Good thing we decided to let the most violent and ruthless gangsters who play by no rules take care of the cocaine distribution for us. Good decision, society. Golf clap.
 
2013-10-16 05:53:52 AM
This is an outrage! Police need to let us know when they're just sort of serial and when they're super serial.
 
2013-10-16 05:56:28 AM

CruiserTwelve: dukwbutter: The police cannot save you, people.  You can't outsource defending your family. Man up. Buy a gun. And quit whining like a pansie when the police aren't there.  The police are NEVER there when you need them.  "When seconds count, the police are just minutes away."

Except in this case the police WERE there. They conducted surveillance on the house the night they expected the invasion to occur, and when it didn't, they warned the family that they had reason to believe they were in danger and strongly suggested to leave the house. They then conducted surveillance on the people they thought would be doing the invasion, but they got the wrong people.

What more would you have expected of the police in this situation? The police WERE there whe this family needed them and took very reasonable actions to protect the family. The police can't be faulted for the failure of those people to follow their recommendations.


Even if the police had be watching to people who did this home invasion they wouldn't have been able to do anything until AFTER the suspects committed the crime. At that point it would have likely turned into a shootout/hostage situation and ended up much worse.
 
2013-10-16 05:58:18 AM

FarkerSnow: This is an outrage! Police need to let us know when they're just sort of serial and when they're super serial.


"Cereal". Not "serial". You biffed it. Turn on your closed captioning.
 
2013-10-16 06:00:40 AM

SirVagTheTighty: Why does it feel like we are getting 1/10 of the story here.





This.

/and subby does realize that police don't actually have to save you from things, right?
/yes they'll try, but acts of heroism are voluntary and they are only legally bound to do paperwork.
 
2013-10-16 06:20:58 AM
"That's when Montes said police told them that a confidential informant said the Montes home would be the target of a home invasion. Police suggested to the family that they stay somewhere else.
Montes said the family members just looked at each other and asked police if they were serious. They said they were.
"None of us thought that, you know, it was something that was serious because if it was, I wouldn't ... none of us would have been home that night,"


The amount of stupid there is staggering. THEY WERE WARNED! But, you know, they didn't take it seriously.
 
2013-10-16 06:25:56 AM
I'm kind of sad at the number of people saying "Well, they should have left their *HOME*".

Home is the one place you shouldn't have to leave.  Even if there is a 200 MPH hurricane bearing down on your tar-paper shack of a house, you shouldn't have to leave if you don't want to, even if leaving is the safer option.

So, what they should have done isn't leave, but take the warning seriously, arm up, post a night watch, and gone about their business.
 
2013-10-16 06:44:40 AM

dittybopper: I'm kind of sad at the number of people saying "Well, they should have left their *HOME*".

Home is the one place you shouldn't have to leave.  Even if there is a 200 MPH hurricane bearing down on your tar-paper shack of a house, you shouldn't have to leave if you don't want to, even if leaving is the safer option.

So, what they should have done isn't leave, but take the warning seriously, arm up, post a night watch, and gone about their business.


Correct, either leave or get a gun. It's Arizona FFS, it can't be hard to get a gun a gun in Arizona. I bet there are plenty if fast and furious guns in the streets of Arizona for sale
 
2013-10-16 07:00:04 AM

Korzine: FTA: Montes said she is considering legal action against the city.

Somebody is about to learn the police have zero legal obligation to protect anyone.


You know, you would figure that after the Supreme Court made that doctrine the law of the land people would pay attention.
 
2013-10-16 07:11:25 AM

fusillade762: Yes, it would have. It would also have made sense for the family to GET THE F*CK OUT OF THE HOUSE FOR A NIGHT.


That or get a shotgun.
 
2013-10-16 07:11:30 AM
Lots of stupid to go around on this story, for the cops and the family.
 
2013-10-16 07:16:14 AM
FTFA: Montes said the family members just looked at each other and asked police if they were serious.

He  isserious.....

www.eonline.com

/hot like the fish...
 
2013-10-16 07:50:05 AM
So one of the "adult grandchildren" living in the house is involved in something pretty shady, and it goes sideways. Someone else involved gets pinched, and spills to the cops. The cops come in, search grandpa's house, tell them there's reason to believe they're in danger. Family has no idea why, and the kid isn't saying a thing. Three killas enter the house. Grandpa does his best Steven Segal impression, but it goes down more like the hit squad scene in "Hard to Kill," except at his age, he's really not.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict the must culpable person in this entire mess is one of his grandkids. You know, aside from the guys who actually pulled the trigger.
 
2013-10-16 07:59:34 AM
Why we need the Second Amendment

Why we need more than 7 rounds, Mr. Bloomberg and Mr Cuomo
 
2013-10-16 08:25:11 AM
"Yes, they warned us, but they were not convincing! They deliberately didn't use the magic words, that I just made up, that would have convinced us they were serious!"

/aka "The Idi Amin Defense"
 
2013-10-16 08:25:27 AM

AngryDragon: Korzine: FTA: Montes said she is considering legal action against the city.

Somebody is about to learn the police have zero legal obligation to protect anyone.

You know, you would figure that after the Supreme Court made that doctrine the law of the land people would pay attention.


People are too busy to read the law.  In fact, the law is so complex it is illegal to give legal advice without being a licensed.  Ironically, the law is saying that, without passing a test, I'm not qualified to understand the law, but I'm responsible for understanding every aspect of the law, and if I don't, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Instead they buy into the crap police say....'thin blue line....putting their life on the line day in and day out......to serve and protect'.  Plus, I mean, movies and TV.

The cops were only interested in busting the family for illegal activities.  They didn't care enough to stick around and see if the informant was telling the truth or when exactly it would happen.  The family didn't care much either.
 
2013-10-16 08:30:45 AM
Thank god-particle the family didn't arm themselves. Someone could have gotten hurt.


Another great job by the american gestapo. The only good one....
 
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