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(CBS News)   One reason for the high cost of emergency hospitalization in the America? "Superusers" that are clogging the nation's emergency rooms by treating them like party rooms for any little thing that ails them   (cbsnews.com) divider line 259
    More: Interesting, Villareal, emergency rooms, San Francisco General Hospital, emergency physician, primary care physicians, MedStar Washington Hospital Center, rubber bands, American College of Emergency Physicians  
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9798 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Oct 2013 at 10:22 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-15 10:47:39 PM  

InternetSecurityGuard: Ice water IV's for all frequent fliers.


Honestly IVs feel like ice water already. It's not a lot of fun when your core temp is lowered really fast like that. At least they give you heated blankets now.
 
2013-10-15 10:49:01 PM  
Maybe if everyone had basic preventative care covered by their tax dollars and public funds, like in EVERY OTHER CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE ENTIRE FARKING WORLD, then people wouldn't abuse emergency rooms by treating them like doctor's offices.

But no, we need to keep the insurance companies fat and rich. The people who buy into the whole idea that universal health care is "other people going to the doctor on MY dime" are farking assholes and complete idiots. By keeping our neighbors free from illness and disease, we ensure our community has productive workers, safe roads (sick people driving = more accidents), safe schools and neighborhoods (mental illness, if caught early, could prevent some random acts of violence), and slower spread of communicable diseases.

Simply put: If my tax dollars can keep someone from making ME sick by allowing them to visit a doctor and receive treatment, then my tax dollars are aiding ME and my family. Indeed, my entire community. If my tax dollars can protect ME from some sick person passing out and crossing the median while driving, then my tax dollars are aiding ME and my family. If my tax dollars can ensure that the roads get plowed, the cops show up for work, and the grocery store isn't staffed with contagious workers, then my tax dollars are aiding ME and my family. It's simple math. I pay taxes, they see doctors, I'm less likely to be killed, injured, or inconvenienced by their untreated illness.

But short-sighted assholes believe what insurance companies pay politicians and pundits to spew, and we're stuck with a health care system that works GREAT for people who make a large sum of money, but totally abandons everyone else.

When America dies, it won't be because of terrorism, war, or some natural disaster. It will be because we let sick folks spread a virus that could have been easily contained if only we'd created a system that made it easy and affordable for EVERYONE to visit a doctor when they feel ill. America will die when a disease kills us all, and other nations will survive because they had the wisdom to realize that the health of the individual affects us ALL.
 
2013-10-15 10:49:45 PM  

hardinparamedic: Marcus Aurelius: hardinparamedic: Free treatment in the ER?

That's the joke, right?

/EMTALA is not free.

Don't even get me started on the ambulance ride.

Which in an ideal world of taxpayer funded third service EMS agencies would be free too.

Thanks Obama.


Unfortunately you and I know that this isn't an ideal world. Sometimes the Evil Empire is a good thing.
 
2013-10-15 10:49:46 PM  

ginandbacon: And just to wind this up, I really do think you and I are probably on the same side on this issue if we just had a chance to sit down over a drink and hash it out.


"To Alcohol! The cause of... and solution to... all of life's problems."

:-)
 
2013-10-15 10:50:16 PM  
If only we had a way to ensure that everyone has access to low cost health insurance.


If only...


\DNRTFA
\\really sick of the fact this is even under debate
\\\some weirdos insist on three.
 
2013-10-15 10:50:33 PM  
Mitt Romney, On 60 Minutes, Cites Emergency Room As Health Care Option For Uninsured


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/23/mitt-romney-60-minutes-heal th -care_n_1908129.html

I'll just leave this here.. where no Republican can see it..
 
2013-10-15 10:51:43 PM  

Mitch Taylor's Bro: ginandbacon: And just to wind this up, I really do think you and I are probably on the same side on this issue if we just had a chance to sit down over a drink and hash it out.

"To Alcohol! The cause of... and solution to... all of life's problems."

:-)


GIN UP!
 
2013-10-15 10:52:43 PM  

KrispyKritter: whole lot of people making a whole lot of money.


Why is it that so many problems in the USA that I hear about can be boiled down to "A whole lot of people are making a whole lot of money and nobody wants to/is able to do anything about it"?
 
2013-10-15 10:52:49 PM  

ginandbacon: And just to wind this up, I really do think you and I are probably on the same side on this issue if we just had a chance to sit down over a drink and hash it out.


as a complete aside, how is it that someone with very serious, chronic health issues goes out drinking and has a fark username like "ginandbacon?"

just askin'
 
2013-10-15 10:52:56 PM  

swingerofbirches: I wish that primary doctors were in hospitals.

I don't see my primary care doctor too often because it takes a long time to get into see him, once you're there you have to wait longer than at urgent care places (not ERs), and he always has to send you to a specialist. The specialist never does anything on the first visit, or they send you somewhere else for lab work.

It would be nice if you could see your primary care doctor in a hospital, get any lab work you need at the same time, and if you're referred to a specialist, have that specialist at the same hospital and not start from square one again.

Even for more chronic things, I tend to go to my urgent care because they have a lab there and it's much faster to be seen (usually less than 15 minutes) compared to waiting up to 4 hours for a scheduled appointment with your primary care doctor. I then usually e-mail those lab results to my primary care doctor and communicate that way. I do have a great primary care doctor; he's just way overworked (especially compared to the specialists) and he has no equipment to do any testing in his office.


As someone who spent 20 years in the medical field you do not have a great primary care doctor.

You should never have to wait more than 20 minutes outside of your appointment time.  If he is too busy, he should not take on new patients.

He should have a lab in house.  Lab equipment is expensive, but that is where the majority of the money is made in a medical practice, and it allows him to be a better doctor.

Why does he always have to send you to specialist?  Because he gets a referral fee.  So he bills you and gets the payola.

You need a new doctor and not a greedy cheapskate.
 
2013-10-15 10:53:36 PM  
What my girlfriend who is an ER doc has to deal with on a regular basis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6sRyrB_UMA
 
2013-10-15 10:54:09 PM  
  "Superusers are a small but expensive group: One large study conducted from 2009-2012 at a Los Angeles hospital noted that 99 percent of ER visitors come in fewer than 10 times a year."

I would bet it is less than 2 times per year.


with nearly 67 percent coming in just once.

I hope so, but what percent of the population goes 0 times per year ?

But, the remaining 1 percent of visitors accounted for thousands of visits in one year.

I don't get how this works,   So these "superusers" go to one ER fail to get drugs, get discharged.  Go to another ER, get discharged don't get drugs, go to yet another ER, get drugs get discharged,  every single day?   except it seems for those few days that they get drugs on their first or 2nd ER visit, perhaps those are weekends?

sounds like a full time job to me
 
2013-10-15 10:55:05 PM  
The only reason for the high cost of hospitalization in America: the insurance industry.
 
2013-10-15 10:58:48 PM  
sudo give me some oxycontin
 
2013-10-15 11:01:27 PM  
This is new?  We've had friends over the last 25 years tells us of their experiences in the trenches.  Paramedics called out to the same locations time and time again for losers using them as a shuttle service for doctor's appointments.  ER nurses seeing the same people come in for "emergency level" pain for ingrown toenails (no, I'm not making that up) and illegal aliens bringing in their kids for colds or bouts of the flu.

Society will always have leeches--the issue is personal responsibility and the growing trend of accepting more and more people to shirk it.

And where do some of you live--six hours in the ER?  The longest I've ever waited, start to finish, is maybe 90 minutes, and I'm out the door or watching my kid go into appendectomy surgery.
 
2013-10-15 11:02:18 PM  

whatshisname: TyrantII: Those uninsured drive up your health insurance costs

More than the healthcare lobby and their shareholders in government? America's health care industry even drives up costs in neighboring countries. The provision of health care should be a regulated, compassionate and efficient venture, not the loot-and-pillage for profits situation in the US.


Never said they don't.  That's primarily a factor of highly inelastic demand (need healthcare, have to have it) and a lack of information (mainly prices).  Both economic imbalances screaming for Government to step in and level the playing field.  ACA is also trying to address that.

But the article is mainly ER visits and treatment.
 
2013-10-15 11:03:05 PM  

pete1729: What my girlfriend who is an ER doc has to deal with on a regular basis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6sRyrB_UMA


I see stuff like this all the time. Most frequent fliers are on Medicaid. And unfortunately in this state there is a (small) copay for the primary care doctor but not for the ER and everything is paid for. So they have no incentive to go see their primary care doctor. They come in for any reason at all and mostly they are desperate for attention. There is a collective groan among every employee in the ED when frequent flier's name appears on the tracker and the person is there for insomnia at 3PM. Yes it has happened. This is why we need to stigmatize people like this
 
2013-10-15 11:04:00 PM  
*CTL-F "sudo"  1 found*
Good.
*leaves whistling*
 
2013-10-15 11:04:51 PM  
My brother teaches in St. Louis. He told his students one day he would not be there the next day because he had a doctor's appointment. The students didn't know what that was. When they were sick, they went to the emergency room.
 
2013-10-15 11:05:18 PM  

fickenchucker: T
Society will always have leeches--the issue is personal responsibility and the growing trend of accepting more and more people to shirk it.



You contradict yourself in one run on sentance.  Well done.

There's far fewer leeches and much less crime now than in the past.
 
2013-10-15 11:05:44 PM  

swingerofbirches: I wish that primary doctors were in hospitals.

I don't see my primary care doctor too often because it takes a long time to get into see him, once you're there you have to wait longer than at urgent care places (not ERs), and he always has to send you to a specialist. The specialist never does anything on the first visit, or they send you somewhere else for lab work.

It would be nice if you could see your primary care doctor in a hospital, get any lab work you need at the same time, and if you're referred to a specialist, have that specialist at the same hospital and not start from square one again.

Even for more chronic things, I tend to go to my urgent care because they have a lab there and it's much faster to be seen (usually less than 15 minutes) compared to waiting up to 4 hours for a scheduled appointment with your primary care doctor. I then usually e-mail those lab results to my primary care doctor and communicate that way. I do have a great primary care doctor; he's just way overworked (especially compared to the specialists) and he has no equipment to do any testing in his office.


My primary care doctor is quick and convenient. She can diagnose most problems, sees patients within about ten minutes of the scheduled time, and sends all lab work out to the local university hospital (turnaround on most lab work is a day, two at the most). She's willing to listen to any complaint, and I've walked in with seasonal allergies and walked out with a bag full of free samples for high-grade Benadryl and Allegra. (I don't know that it helped my allergies, but I woke up two days later feeling amazing.)

Oh, wait. My primary care was at a university infirmary. Explains a lot.

Klonopin is a hell of a drug, kids.
 
2013-10-15 11:07:45 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: AKA "The uninsured".


As in my ex-wife.  She could have insurance if she's just go back to work but noooo, blaming me for her lack of employment nearly 6 years after the divorce fulfills her need to be a victim.
 
2013-10-15 11:07:53 PM  

InternetSecurityGuard: Ice water IV's for all frequent fliers.




Ice water enemas!
 
2013-10-15 11:07:53 PM  

sendtodave: AliceBToklasLives: Nice article - good job mentioned the key reason there are "superusers" - lack of health insurance.  For many people, the only way to see a doctor is to go to the ER.

And no, no one gets "free" treatment at the ER.  They send a bill and the patient is responsible for his care.  Of course hospitals have a hard time collecting since lack of health insurance is generally accompanied by a lack of monetary resources.  So who pays for a good chunk of ER visits?  Everyone else.

Also, you cannot get just any kind of treatment at the ER.  Sure, if you are having a heart attack they will stabilize you, and if you have a primary care physician you might (as TFA suggests) get some needed tests.  But it's not like you can walk in and say "I have a family history of colon cancer, I'm 50 and I'd like a colonoscopy."  Well, you can say that but you ain't getting no colonoscopy.  So you don't get the preventative treatment.  Who pays for your frequent visits during your bout with colon cancer?  You know who.

If they charged less overall, everyone else would pay less. Hospitals gouge you on prices n the US.

I've gone hospitals in China that cost less than fifteen dollars for consultation and medicine. Doctors there don't drive BMWs. They don't have a hundred thou in student loan debt that their patents have to pay for. Etc.

Are the hospitals as modern? No. For example, you get X-rays instead of cat scans. But you can afford to go!

So, yeah, free riders suck, and drive up prices. But the heatlhcare bus costs way too much already in the US. Bunch of thieves.


Free riders, lawsuits, educational costs, malpractice insurance, technology and contracted maintenance of that technology, staffing numbers per patient, building upgrades and upkeep (patients expect hospitals to function as hotels and offer the same amenities such as private rooms w/ baths, well appointed guest spaces, etc), retention bonuses and continuing education, specialists and licensing expenses really don't leave much left over for the thieves.
 
2013-10-15 11:08:06 PM  
AA and NA should treat their own.  Start mini-clinics!  Get sponsored by P&G and some coffee brand...
 
2013-10-15 11:08:55 PM  

Hagbardr: sudo give me some oxycontin


Screw oxycontin.

sudo give me klonopin and vicodin
 
2013-10-15 11:09:07 PM  

TelJanin: Welfare/low income people are coached the following: "Go only to the ER, walk up to the desk person and say 'I cannot pay, I require Pro-Bono health care' ". This is the source for tons of spurious ER visit. From a few years in the ER, I would say probably 1/2 the traffic is pro-bono/welfare/medicare/medicaid related work.


userserve-ak.last.fm
 
2013-10-15 11:10:01 PM  
Eddie Adams from Torrance [TotalFark]
2013-10-15 08:04:08 PM


I blame Fartbong0

Why won't he pass some sort of health care improvement act?

Being the big supporter of zero care, you must be one of the 2 dozen people who signed up since sign-ups began.
 
2013-10-15 11:10:32 PM  

ricochet4: ginandbacon: And just to wind this up, I really do think you and I are probably on the same side on this issue if we just had a chance to sit down over a drink and hash it out.

as a complete aside, how is it that someone with very serious, chronic health issues goes out drinking and has a fark username like "ginandbacon?"

just askin'


Heh. I have a mess of shiat that isn't dangerous just disabling. Drinking doesn't really affect any of it (thank the gods and goddesses.) I can't actually go out much anymore but I can still drink :)

My friends come to my house and I give them good cheer which seems to make up for me not running around to their things. 

I do get out sometimes and even went to NY for my birthday last weekend but whooooooweeee am I paying for that trip now! I have learned to budget (well I am trying to learn to budget) my energy. 

I haven't been to the ER since last February which is not bad for me. But I have definitely been a frequent flier for the last few years.
 
2013-10-15 11:11:04 PM  

pete1729: What my girlfriend who is an ER doc has to deal with on a regular basis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6sRyrB_UMA


My x in college was exatly like her, I can't remember how many times I spent the night in an effect waiting room becouse he had a seizure after we were together for 2 years I found out that he had been fakeing them to get disability. I don't know how I missed it for so long and it messed me up for a long time not able to trust anyone.
 
2013-10-15 11:11:46 PM  
when people dont care what shiat costs, because they arent paying the bill.
then they overindulge in a service and waste it.
 
2013-10-15 11:14:11 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: Nice article - good job mentioned the key reason there are "superusers" - lack of health insurance.  For many people, the only way to see a doctor is to go to the ER.

And no, no one gets "free" treatment at the ER.  They send a bill and the patient is responsible for his care.  Of course hospitals have a hard time collecting since lack of health insurance is generally accompanied by a lack of monetary resources.  So who pays for a good chunk of ER visits?  Everyone else.

Also, you cannot get just any kind of treatment at the ER.  Sure, if you are having a heart attack they will stabilize you, and if you have a primary care physician you might (as TFA suggests) get some needed tests.  But it's not like you can walk in and say "I have a family history of colon cancer, I'm 50 and I'd like a colonoscopy."  Well, you can say that but you ain't getting no colonoscopy.  So you don't get the preventative treatment.  Who pays for your frequent visits during your bout with colon cancer?  You know who.


The dude can pay for it.  It goes like this.  I have a couple of green bills in my pocket.  How much for a colonoscopy to check for X is I pay cash.. up front right now.  Oh, its 20% of the normal bill?  OK then. lets go.
 
2013-10-15 11:16:23 PM  
Here's an idea: how about everyone take care of their own bills?  Get the state out of it completely. If you want to pool resources with some like minded folks and spend money for insurance, go for it. Or if you want to just pay as you go, or save up and pay, or save nothing and then bleed out when something happens-- go for it.  Similarily, if you want to start a charity to fix clef lips or teach retarded kids to skateboard-- go for it.

That's the American way. You succeed or fail based on your own ability.  Should be no different for health care than it is for education, quarterbacking, or meeting chicks. Unfortunately, under today's quasi-socialist system, everybody gets an A, everyone gets a chance to play quarterback, and if you can't find a date to the prom it's because you "suffer" from Asperger's and are a "victim" of bullying.

More person responsibility, less collectivism.

However, IF you insist on turning us into the USSA, at least go full throttle. The current system is NOT free market and Obamacare is NOT true socialism. Health care (including Obamacare) is driven by corporations that are so in bed with the federal government that they have corrupted any sense of altruism, yet at the same time they are not true market actors.  We're getting the worst of both worlds.

Who's with me?
 
2013-10-15 11:18:10 PM  
There will always be people who abuse the system.  But, doesn't it seem logical that if you put people in a corner, they're going to go for the only way out?

I know people who have had to make the decision to go to the emergency room knowing they couldn't pay.  It wasn't something they took joy in and they weren't proud about it.  In fact, they all put off seeking medical attention longer than they should have or would have if they could afford urgent care or a doctor's visit.  And in the end, it ends up costing even more than if they'd been able to get care early or through another avenue.

I think it's obvious.  Some issues require medical attention and some people simply cannot afford it, because it's expensive.  So, no matter what, another party is going to foot that bill.  It just doesn't make sense to have a system in place that forces people, who can't pay, to use the most expensive option for care.  If I'm paying, I'd rather pay the bill for the preventative care or the doctor's office / urgent care visit, than the ambulance and emergency room costs.
 
2013-10-15 11:20:07 PM  
www.screeninsults.com
Thanks for the free healthcare estupido gringos. Send the bill to general delivery TJ and a check will be in the mail sooooon. I'm sure glad I voted for Hobama!
 
2013-10-15 11:21:41 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: All civilized nations provide basic health care for free to everyone.


Is that the same "civilized" nations that spent the better part of the last millennium blowing each other to shiat, or the one that still has hundreds of thousands of people who can remember when it was one country's policy to murder an entire race? Incidentally, that same "civilized" country is the most powerful one among the "civilized" world.

The United States changes very slowly. It always has, it always will. Europe is more advanced in being "civilized" because when all was said and done there was nothing left, hence nothing left to lose. Change is easy when you start from scratch. The same cannot be said here.

We'll get there. In the meantime, this whole "US is uncivilized" meme grinds my gears. I NEVER want to hear anybody ever accuse an American of arrogance again. Uncivilized, my ass.
 
2013-10-15 11:22:30 PM  

nickdaisy: Here's an idea: how about everyone take care of their own bills?  Get the state out of it completely. If you want to pool resources with some like minded folks and spend money for insurance, go for it. Or if you want to just pay as you go, or save up and pay, or save nothing and then bleed out when something happens-- go for it.  Similarily, if you want to start a charity to fix clef lips or teach retarded kids to skateboard-- go for it.

That's the American way. You succeed or fail based on your own ability.  Should be no different for health care than it is for education, quarterbacking, or meeting chicks. Unfortunately, under today's quasi-socialist system, everybody gets an A, everyone gets a chance to play quarterback, and if you can't find a date to the prom it's because you "suffer" from Asperger's and are a "victim" of bullying.

More person responsibility, less collectivism.

However, IF you insist on turning us into the USSA, at least go full throttle. The current system is NOT free market and Obamacare is NOT true socialism. Health care (including Obamacare) is driven by corporations that are so in bed with the federal government that they have corrupted any sense of altruism, yet at the same time they are not true market actors.  We're getting the worst of both worlds.

Who's with me?


Why do you need someone to back your play?  Go it alone, Grizzly Adams.
 
2013-10-15 11:22:58 PM  
de gibs!
 
2013-10-15 11:24:41 PM  
I recall hearing of some community health approach (Brooklyn?) where they made a point of identifying the "superusers" and giving them extra preemptive care. They found it much cheaper to do things like train the patients on how to take their medicine or even send out a nurse for occasional supervision than to treat some patients every couple of weeks in the emergency room.
 
2013-10-15 11:25:55 PM  

swingerofbirches: It would be nice if you could see your primary care doctor in a hospital, get any lab work you need at the same time, and if you're referred to a specialist, have that specialist at the same hospital and not start from square one again.


This is pretty much what Kaiser is. A lot of people are down on HMOs, but you can't deny the convenience of having primary doctors, specialists, labs (x-ray, blood tests, etc.), and pharmacy all under one roof.
 
2013-10-15 11:27:59 PM  

OscarTamerz: [www.screeninsults.com image 500x368]
Thanks for the free healthcare estupido gringos. Send the bill to general delivery TJ and a check will be in the mail sooooon. I'm sure glad I voted for Hobama!


The Mexicans I know work pretty damned hard and are under- paid for what they produce: I'm more likely to begrudge medical attention to one of our own that has made public assistance a way of life.
 
2013-10-15 11:30:34 PM  
Did not read thread, but no sh*t subby.

/just in case it hadn't been said.
 
2013-10-15 11:31:14 PM  

Hagbardr: sudo give me some oxycontin


Heh...
 
2013-10-15 11:31:54 PM  
My wife and I know someone who does this. Granted, she is a single mom of 3, no education, and makes minimum wage. The ER bills Medicaid.

I explained this to a Teaderper co-worker, and told him, that under Fartbongo care, she probably still can't afford insurance, but her tax for not having any, is more than she currently contributes. So, in reality, our cold/current healthcare system is actually more socialistic than Obamacare, and why is he arguing for Socialism... I'm pretty sure his hair went full grey in under 5 seconds. His lack of both Herp and Derp or any reply was soo gratifying.
 
2013-10-15 11:32:34 PM  

ginandbacon: "Superusers are a small but expensive group: One large study conducted from 2009-2012 at a Los Angeles hospital noted that 99 percent of ER visitors come in fewer than 10 times a year, with nearly 67 percent coming in just once. But, the remaining 1 percent of visitors accounted for thousands of visits in one year."

This paragraph is completely devoid of meaning.

Most "superusers" are like me, people with chronic conditions that put them in crisis at least a couple of times a year. I have excellent insurance (thank goodness) but I have 4 neurological conditions that have me dialing 911 not infrequently. Some people are certainly using ERs when they could use a PCP but that's not really that common. Ers suck. Hospitals suck. I've discharged myself against advice from both because I knew they were only keeping me because they didn't know what to do or because I would be an interesting case for the students the next morning. No one spends six hours in an ER for something minor. (Six if you're lucky. I've spent that long just waiting to be seen and then another six for tests before being admitted.) 

I don't understand why we keep vilifying patients and championing the assholes who profit off the ones they can and try to bankrupt the ones they can't exploit.


Well, FTFA it sounds like there's also people who just can't afford any other type of care and so end up in crisis more often, too, but I sympathize with you. That would absolutely suck.
 
2013-10-15 11:32:50 PM  

UsikFark: TelJanin: Welfare/low income people are coached the following: "Go only to the ER, walk up to the desk person and say 'I cannot pay, I require Pro-Bono health care' ". This is the source for tons of spurious ER visit. From a few years in the ER, I would say probably 1/2 the traffic is pro-bono/welfare/medicare/medicaid related work.

"okay, we'll put you on our pro-bono prayer list, no charge. Hope the Lord blesses you!"

/faith-based healthcare


RON PAUL
 
2013-10-15 11:33:12 PM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: Uncivilized, my ass.


cdn.overclock.net
 
2013-10-15 11:34:05 PM  
Good thing Obamacare does nothing to address this crippling issue, I wrote, knowing that it had been addressed a dozen times before in the thread.
 
2013-10-15 11:35:39 PM  

ZeroCorpse: Maybe if everyone had basic preventative care covered by their tax dollars and public funds, like in EVERY OTHER CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE ENTIRE FARKING WORLD, then people wouldn't abuse emergency rooms by treating them like doctor's offices.

But no, we need to keep the insurance companies fat and rich. The people who buy into the whole idea that universal health care is "other people going to the doctor on MY dime" are farking assholes and complete idiots. By keeping our neighbors free from illness and disease, we ensure our community has productive workers, safe roads (sick people driving = more accidents), safe schools and neighborhoods (mental illness, if caught early, could prevent some random acts of violence), and slower spread of communicable diseases.

Simply put: If my tax dollars can keep someone from making ME sick by allowing them to visit a doctor and receive treatment, then my tax dollars are aiding ME and my family. Indeed, my entire community. If my tax dollars can protect ME from some sick person passing out and crossing the median while driving, then my tax dollars are aiding ME and my family. If my tax dollars can ensure that the roads get plowed, the cops show up for work, and the grocery store isn't staffed with contagious workers, then my tax dollars are aiding ME and my family. It's simple math. I pay taxes, they see doctors, I'm less likely to be killed, injured, or inconvenienced by their untreated illness.

But short-sighted assholes believe what insurance companies pay politicians and pundits to spew, and we're stuck with a health care system that works GREAT for people who make a large sum of money, but totally abandons everyone else.

When America dies, it won't be because of terrorism, war, or some natural disaster. It will be because we let sick folks spread a virus that could have been easily contained if only we'd created a system that made it easy and affordable for EVERYONE to visit a doctor when they feel ill. America will die w ...


Your utopian countries are also abused. They also restrict available care to deal with it. That includes the richest of EU countries, such as England and Germany.

Second, the for-profit U.S. system you decry so vociferously is, in fact, responsible for over half of the WORLD's medical research and advancement. Now, do you know why that is? Can you possibly contemplate the *fact* that the capitalist system produces so much incentive for progress it manages to almost single-handedly advance medicine for the globe? You god damned myopic collectivist?
 
2013-10-15 11:40:19 PM  

Shryke: Can you possibly contemplate the *fact* that the capitalist system produces so much incentive for progress it manages to almost single-handedly advance medicine for the globe?


The US would continue R&D with a completely socialist healthcare system. Bankrupting citizens doesn't help the nation's health.
 
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