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(CBS News)   Former Army captain and Afghan war veteran William Swenson, becomes only the 6th living Medal of Honor recipient after being awarded the nation's highest military honor by President Obama   (cbsnews.com) divider line 136
    More: Hero, army captain, Medal of Honor, President Obama, Afghans, Afghan war, Medal of Honor recipients, Taliban in the Ganjgal, WWII Memorial  
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5507 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Oct 2013 at 8:17 PM (41 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-15 09:10:32 PM
Obama hates the military. Facebook posters told me so.
 
2013-10-15 09:10:45 PM

ScaryBottles: You too princess.


Kiss kiss.

/wink
 
2013-10-15 09:11:14 PM
TFA: "He risked his life to recover bodies..."


I have nothing but the deepest respect for this man, but I have to admit I've never understood this concept.

Once a man is dead, what sense does it make to send more living people to their deaths trying to recover his lifeless shell?  He's done with it - bringing bits of it home isn't going to bring him back to life. Let it go, and focus on saving those who are still breathing from a needless death. If possible come back and get the body later, sure, but not when doing so puts others in mortal danger.

If I were to die in combat, the LAST thing I would want is a single other life to be lost collecting the inanimate mass of remaining dead flesh I left behind. My family is already getting the bad news - better just mine than mine *and* that of the poor sod who got himself killed in the name of "respect" or "sanctity" or some such thing.
 
2013-10-15 09:11:18 PM
If the Tea Party gets to impeach Obama and annul his presidency like it never happened, do these guys have to return their medals? And will they be re-awarded by president Cruz?
 
2013-10-15 09:11:54 PM

Marcus Aurelius: ScaryBottles: I'll give you a hint it rhymes with "Tree's Track"

Sleestacks!  That's everyone's least favourite Dr. Seuss.

They hate that even more than spelling an "or" with a "u" in between, I would wageour.


Who cares what those slimy green bastiches think, with their pointy heads and their big stupid bug eyes. I can't believe my taxes go to supporting these so-called "undocumented Americans"
 
2013-10-15 09:13:28 PM

studs up: general tso: From the citation: "When the column was surrounded by enemy fighters that advanced within 50 meters, Swenson responded to Taliban demands for surrender by throwing a hand grenade, an act of defiance that rallied his comrades to repel the enemy advance."

Nuts


Came here to say that...but I'll just leave this

www.101airborneww2.com
 
2013-10-15 09:14:23 PM

ScaryBottles: noitsnot: Marcus Aurelius: ScaryBottles: Obunghole handing out more free stuff this is news?

just kidding...

So you got some, then.

What kind of free stuff did he give you this time?

just kidding = I wanna run my mouth but not be held accountable

Were your mother and father brother and sister? Seriously, it was farking joke about teabagging morons. Its intended exactly the opposite of how you construed it dig the sand out of yer' vag.



So - how was it about teabagging?  Can you explain that?  I don't get it.  Like, it was about the Tea Party somehow?  Or actually about teabagging?  Obama is giving away other free stuff?  Like what?  You're required to pay for Obamacare - that's part of the problem.

(saying just kidding = telling everyone you have no balls)
 
2013-10-15 09:15:02 PM

Marcus Aurelius: ScaryBottles: You too princess.

Kiss kiss.

/wink


Slow down buddy you gotta pay Frank.
 
2013-10-15 09:17:19 PM
Thank you Sir, not only for your years of service, but for your unshaken and powerful courage, a courage that not only enabled you to save your fellow soldiers, but Allied soldiers that you didn't even know, and who didn't know you. Such bravery in the face of appalling enemy fire is the reason this Medal exists, and you Sir, are the reason it's being brought out today. I pin this on your chest, with full knowledge of your selfless acts, and unflinching bravery in the face of certain death, your only thoughts having been of your comrades. The love, bravery, and compassion you have shown us will not soon be forgotten, and you have obviously touched many lives during that terrible day. God bless you son.

(speech should have been something along those lines.)

/raises a glass.....SALUTE'.
 
2013-10-15 09:18:25 PM

dittybopper: Marcus Aurelius: dittybopper: Uh, I'm pretty sure there are more than six living MoH recipients.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_living_Medal_of_Honor_recipient s

You now officially have your own unique favorite color on TF.  I'm calling it "encyclopedia".

I'm hoping it's brown.


It's as close to brown as we can come around here.

I WISH we had brown.

Can someone please talk to Drew about the horrible color palette around this place?
 
2013-10-15 09:18:41 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: Satanic_Hamster: Figures.  Obama gives the medal to a guy who kissed another man instead of REAL AMERICAN for killing others.

Not really funny.


Five bucks says AFA runs with that within a week.
 
2013-10-15 09:18:42 PM

spmkk: TFA: "He risked his life to recover bodies..."


I have nothing but the deepest respect for this man, but I have to admit I've never understood this concept.

Once a man is dead, what sense does it make to send more living people to their deaths trying to recover his lifeless shell?  He's done with it - bringing bits of it home isn't going to bring him back to life. Let it go, and focus on saving those who are still breathing from a needless death. If possible come back and get the body later, sure, but not when doing so puts others in mortal danger.

If I were to die in combat, the LAST thing I would want is a single other life to be lost collecting the inanimate mass of remaining dead flesh I left behind. My family is already getting the bad news - better just mine than mine *and* that of the poor sod who got himself killed in the name of "respect" or "sanctity" or some such thing.


Beat into my head from day one of PLC was that you don't leave Marines behind.  Over and over and over again;  If there is any chance to do so you grab and go.  Justification?  Would you want to be left behind?  I wouldn't.
 
2013-10-15 09:19:17 PM
This story isn't really political. Like Pat Tillman and Penn State it's about the lengths institutions will go to to protect their image.
 
2013-10-15 09:20:54 PM

spmkk: TFA: "He risked his life to recover bodies..."


I have nothing but the deepest respect for this man, but I have to admit I've never understood this concept.

Once a man is dead, what sense does it make to send more living people to their deaths trying to recover his lifeless shell?  He's done with it - bringing bits of it home isn't going to bring him back to life. Let it go, and focus on saving those who are still breathing from a needless death. If possible come back and get the body later, sure, but not when doing so puts others in mortal danger.

If I were to die in combat, the LAST thing I would want is a single other life to be lost collecting the inanimate mass of remaining dead flesh I left behind. My family is already getting the bad news - better just mine than mine *and* that of the poor sod who got himself killed in the name of "respect" or "sanctity" or some such thing.


Because the Randy Shughart and Gary Gordon.
 
2013-10-15 09:23:36 PM

Marcus Aurelius: I'm holding out for a true hero.
[2.bp.blogspot.com image 310x475]


Til the end of the night?
 
2013-10-15 09:29:39 PM
As a tip of the hat to the gentleman who posted the Harry S Flashman cover, I've been reading today about how EXTRAORDINARILY overrated the Tuskogee Airmen were. To hear the media tell it, you'd think those guys had done everything but liberate Auschwitz.

But the reality is they were flying P-51s, late in the war, against undertrained, exhausted German teenagers.

They deserve applause but not nearly as much as they've received. Who's with me on this?
 
2013-10-15 09:31:21 PM

noitsnot: ScaryBottles: noitsnot: Marcus Aurelius: ScaryBottles: Obunghole handing out more free stuff this is news?

just kidding...

So you got some, then.

What kind of free stuff did he give you this time?

just kidding = I wanna run my mouth but not be held accountable

Were your mother and father brother and sister? Seriously, it was farking joke about teabagging morons. Its intended exactly the opposite of how you construed it dig the sand out of yer' vag.


So - how was it about teabagging?  Can you explain that?  I don't get it.  Like, it was about the Tea Party somehow?  Or actually about teabagging?  Obama is giving away other free stuff?  Like what?  You're required to pay for Obamacare - that's part of the problem.

(saying just kidding = telling everyone you have no balls)


No balls huh hows this for a definitive statement, you and little Rafael Cruz are scum. If I had my way people like you would be run through the streets nude with cattle prods for decent people to pelt with rotten vegetables. In a truly just or rational society people like you would be sterilized. You are worth less than the most rabidly insane right wing evangelist or global warming denier because at the very least they believe in something even if incredibly misguided. You dumb as rocks teabaggers are even worse the whole reason behind you entire movement is took keep as much of your MONEY as you can. You're willing to let your fellow Americans suffer hunger and deprivation, deny them health care and make your hay demonizing those most vulnerable in our society and you are proud of it. You disgust me period your lousy paycheck is more important to you than the good of our nation.

Still wanna call me passive aggressive?

By the way none of this is a joke in case you're confused again.
 
2013-10-15 09:31:40 PM

nickdaisy: As a tip of the hat to the gentleman who posted the Harry S Flashman cover, I've been reading today about how EXTRAORDINARILY overrated the Tuskogee Airmen were. To hear the media tell it, you'd think those guys had done everything but liberate Auschwitz.

But the reality is they were flying P-51s, late in the war, against undertrained, exhausted German teenagers.

They deserve applause but not nearly as much as they've received. Who's with me on this?


They also did, in fact, have bombers shot down under their watch.  Court marshal them!
 
2013-10-15 09:36:13 PM

spmkk: If I were to die in combat, the LAST thing I would want is a single other life to be lost collecting the inanimate mass of remaining dead flesh I left behind. My family is already getting the bad news - better just mine than mine *and* that of the poor sod who got himself killed in the name of "respect" or "sanctity" or some such thing.


"Where is my son's body? I want to give him a proper burial"
"It was dismembered and burned and hung in effigy"
"Oh well at least nobody went out of their way to bring him back intact, that would be dangerous"
 
2013-10-15 09:36:50 PM

Satanic_Hamster: nickdaisy: As a tip of the hat to the gentleman who posted the Harry S Flashman cover, I've been reading today about how EXTRAORDINARILY overrated the Tuskogee Airmen were. To hear the media tell it, you'd think those guys had done everything but liberate Auschwitz.

But the reality is they were flying P-51s, late in the war, against undertrained, exhausted German teenagers.

They deserve applause but not nearly as much as they've received. Who's with me on this?

They also did, in fact, have bombers shot down under their watch.  Court marshal them!


agreed!

Supporters will argue that they had fewer bombers shot out than comparable units but again-- they entered the war after all the heavy lifting had been done. And I'd be very curious to see a true analysis of how many of their own losses were through negligence. The skeptic in me tells me that every Tuskogee loss is now credited as heroic whereas other airmen haven't had their records scrubbed in their favor.

Red Tails?  More like Red Fails!
 
2013-10-15 09:39:01 PM

JohnCarter: Nuts

Came here to say that...but I'll just leave this


OK, could you please explain the joke?
 
2013-10-15 09:42:22 PM

2wolves: Beat into my head from day one of PLC was that you don't leave Marines behind. Over and over and over again; If there is any chance to do so you grab and go. Justification? Would you want to be left behind? I wouldn't.


If I were dead, I wouldn't mind.  Do they really teach a policy of recovering dead bodies at any cost?

How many dead were left behind in France on D-Day?
 
2013-10-15 09:42:53 PM

nickdaisy: Supporters will argue that they had fewer bombers shot out than comparable units but again-- they entered the war after all the heavy lifting had been done. And I'd be very curious to see a true analysis of how many of their own losses were through negligence. The skeptic in me tells me that every Tuskogee loss is now credited as heroic whereas other airmen haven't had their records scrubbed in their favor.


Actually, the claim is that they had NO loses under them.
 
2013-10-15 09:45:47 PM

flondrix: 2wolves: Beat into my head from day one of PLC was that you don't leave Marines behind. Over and over and over again; If there is any chance to do so you grab and go. Justification? Would you want to be left behind? I wouldn't.

If I were dead, I wouldn't mind.  Do they really teach a policy of recovering dead bodies at any cost?

How many dead were left behind in France on D-Day?


Ever been to France to see the cemeteries?
 
2013-10-15 09:47:37 PM

spmkk: TFA: "He risked his life to recover bodies..."


I have nothing but the deepest respect for this man, but I have to admit I've never understood this concept.

Once a man is dead, what sense does it make to send more living people to their deaths trying to recover his lifeless shell?  He's done with it - bringing bits of it home isn't going to bring him back to life. Let it go, and focus on saving those who are still breathing from a needless death. If possible come back and get the body later, sure, but not when doing so puts others in mortal danger.

If I were to die in combat, the LAST thing I would want is a single other life to be lost collecting the inanimate mass of remaining dead flesh I left behind. My family is already getting the bad news - better just mine than mine *and* that of the poor sod who got himself killed in the name of "respect" or "sanctity" or some such thing.


How about so the enemy doesn't get to use their corpse as propaganda, or to drag around behind a truck or some despicable shiat like that?  If your brother was killed in action, would you want the body brought home to be buried, or strung up by his boots and used as a pinata?  That's why you go back for the body.  We're talking about people who hate Americans just because they can, do you honestly think they'd balk at defiling a Marine's corpse in some way to better prove their superiority and inspire more people to join up?  I sure as hell don't.  I hate war, I hate that we're involved in war, I think it should be the option of last resort, but even I can understand the imperative to not allow a fellow soldier's body to fall into the hands of the other side.
 
2013-10-15 09:49:15 PM

flondrix: JohnCarter: Nuts

Came here to say that...but I'll just leave this

OK, could you please explain the joke?


Battle of the Bulge in WWII -- Germans had the Americans surrounded at Bastogne.  When the Germans demanded they surrender, US General McAuliffe gave a very impassioned, elaborate, and uplifting response:   "Nuts!"
 
2013-10-15 09:50:12 PM

studs up: general tso: From the citation: "When the column was surrounded by enemy fighters that advanced within 50 meters, Swenson responded to Taliban demands for surrender by throwing a hand grenade, an act of defiance that rallied his comrades to repel the enemy advance."

Nuts


Yeah.
Get taken and maybe beheaded?
AW FARK NO would be my response, too.
 
2013-10-15 09:51:06 PM

flondrix: JohnCarter: Nuts

Came here to say that...but I'll just leave this

OK, could you please explain the joke?


It's not really a joke, it was said during the battle of the bulge.
 
2013-10-15 09:55:39 PM

nickdaisy: Satanic_Hamster: nickdaisy: As a tip of the hat to the gentleman who posted the Harry S Flashman cover, I've been reading today about how EXTRAORDINARILY overrated the Tuskogee Airmen were. To hear the media tell it, you'd think those guys had done everything but liberate Auschwitz.

But the reality is they were flying P-51s, late in the war, against undertrained, exhausted German teenagers.

They deserve applause but not nearly as much as they've received. Who's with me on this?

They also did, in fact, have bombers shot down under their watch.  Court marshal them!

agreed!

Supporters will argue that they had fewer bombers shot out than comparable units but again-- they entered the war after all the heavy lifting had been done. And I'd be very curious to see a true analysis of how many of their own losses were through negligence. The skeptic in me tells me that every Tuskogee loss is now credited as heroic whereas other airmen haven't had their records scrubbed in their favor.

Red Tails?  More like Red Fails!


You sir, are a racist biatch, speaking from a low place that proves you have no honor or sense.

plonk.
 
2013-10-15 09:58:15 PM
Not doubting this guy deserves the medal, huge brass balls and all. But how about the other Medal of Honor recipient, any questions about his account?

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/10/14/205341/videos-contradict-medal -o f-honor.html
 
2013-10-15 10:01:06 PM
That, and $5 will get a Starbucks coffee and a stale bagel.
 
2013-10-15 10:01:55 PM

MFAWG: flondrix: 2wolves: Beat into my head from day one of PLC was that you don't leave Marines behind. Over and over and over again; If there is any chance to do so you grab and go. Justification? Would you want to be left behind? I wouldn't.

If I were dead, I wouldn't mind.  Do they really teach a policy of recovering dead bodies at any cost?

How many dead were left behind in France on D-Day?

Ever been to France to see the cemeteries?


I have been and cried for the rest of the day. Spent two weeks there up and down the whole coast. The cost in American lives was overwhelming. Middle aged man
 
2013-10-15 10:02:58 PM

flondrix: 2wolves: Beat into my head from day one of PLC was that you don't leave Marines behind. Over and over and over again; If there is any chance to do so you grab and go. Justification? Would you want to be left behind? I wouldn't.

If I were dead, I wouldn't mind.  Do they really teach a policy of recovering dead bodies at any cost?

How many dead were left behind in France on D-Day?


Today, twenty-seven war cemeteries hold the remains of over 110,000 dead from both sides: 77,866 German, 9,386 American, 17,769 British, 5,002 Canadian and 650 Poles.

Not at "any" cost but damn near.  Of course I'm old but I don't believe the Corps has changed that much in 35 years.
 
2013-10-15 10:03:35 PM

medic2731: Medal of Honor recipients are often some of the most unassuming, down to earth people that you will ever meet.  They usually are not seeking out hero status prior to the incident that they are involved in.  When questioned afterwards, they often answer, " I just did what I thought was the right thing".

Makes me proud to be a veteran.

I salute you Capt Swenson.


A nice reminder of the good America can produce.
 
2013-10-15 10:04:04 PM
Wow. Warfare's come a long way.

Back in the civil war era, we buried 100s of men after even the smallest skirmishes. The big battles like Gettysburg? 10,000s of soldiers dead on both sides.

In Afghanistan the biggest firefight claimed 15 lives and we've passed out multiple Medals of Honor to the participants.
 
2013-10-15 10:04:23 PM

DrSansabeltNoShiatSlacks: That, and $5 will get a Starbucks coffee and a stale bagel.


His kids get a space in any of the service academies.   Reserved for them, no competition till they're too old.
 
2013-10-15 10:07:05 PM

MFAWG: flondrix: 2wolves: Beat into my head from day one of PLC was that you don't leave Marines behind. Over and over and over again; If there is any chance to do so you grab and go. Justification? Would you want to be left behind? I wouldn't.

If I were dead, I wouldn't mind.  Do they really teach a policy of recovering dead bodies at any cost?

How many dead were left behind in France on D-Day?

Ever been to France to see the cemeteries?


No, but that was my point--those bodies never made it home to the families of the fallen.
 
2013-10-15 10:09:50 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: nickdaisy: Satanic_Hamster: nickdaisy: As a tip of the hat to the gentleman who posted the Harry S Flashman cover, I've been reading today about how EXTRAORDINARILY overrated the Tuskogee Airmen were. To hear the media tell it, you'd think those guys had done everything but liberate Auschwitz.

But the reality is they were flying P-51s, late in the war, against undertrained, exhausted German teenagers.

They deserve applause but not nearly as much as they've received. Who's with me on this?

They also did, in fact, have bombers shot down under their watch.  Court marshal them!

agreed!

Supporters will argue that they had fewer bombers shot out than comparable units but again-- they entered the war after all the heavy lifting had been done. And I'd be very curious to see a true analysis of how many of their own losses were through negligence. The skeptic in me tells me that every Tuskogee loss is now credited as heroic whereas other airmen haven't had their records scrubbed in their favor.

Red Tails?  More like Red Fails!

You sir, are a racist biatch, speaking from a low place that proves you have no honor or sense.

plonk.


How is it racist to question what pretty clearly looks like propaganda?
 
2013-10-15 10:12:04 PM

spmkk: TFA: "He risked his life to recover bodies..."


I have nothing but the deepest respect for this man, but I have to admit I've never understood this concept.

Once a man is dead, what sense does it make to send more living people to their deaths trying to recover his lifeless shell?  He's done with it - bringing bits of it home isn't going to bring him back to life. Let it go, and focus on saving those who are still breathing from a needless death. If possible come back and get the body later, sure, but not when doing so puts others in mortal danger.

If I were to die in combat, the LAST thing I would want is a single other life to be lost collecting the inanimate mass of remaining dead flesh I left behind. My family is already getting the bad news - better just mine than mine *and* that of the poor sod who got himself killed in the name of "respect" or "sanctity" or some such thing.


Gotta make sure they're actually dead and accounted for, rather than being "Missing in Action" and maybe a POW. They don't know for sure they're dead until they're verified.

Example: Hunter accidentally shoots buddy. In a panic, hunter calls 911 and says he's just shot his buddy and he thinks he's dead. 911 operator says. 911 operator says, "First, we need to verify that he's dead." Hunter says, "Okay, hold on!" There's a gunshot, the hunter comes back on the line and says, "Okay now what??"

Okay, perhaps not exactly like that but you get the picture.
 
2013-10-15 10:12:24 PM

ScaryBottles: Obunghole handing out more free stuff this is news?

just kidding...


Seriously, though, wasn't there an article posted to FARK in the distant past written by someone who didn't think the recent recipients didn't do anything to merit the medal? I believe it was from WND.
 
2013-10-15 10:25:26 PM
By the by, I noticed that yesterday was Columbus Day and I had 1492 green lights at the time.

Shouldn't I be entitled to something for that?
 
2013-10-15 10:38:16 PM

Marcus Aurelius: By the by, I noticed that yesterday was Columbus Day and I had 1492 green lights at the time.

Shouldn't I be entitled to something for that?


Do you not know where you landed in the new world?
 
2013-10-15 10:50:46 PM

ScaryBottles: noitsnot: ScaryBottles: noitsnot: Marcus Aurelius: ScaryBottles: Obunghole handing out more free stuff this is news?

just kidding...

So you got some, then.

What kind of free stuff did he give you this time?

just kidding = I wanna run my mouth but not be held accountable

Were your mother and father brother and sister? Seriously, it was farking joke about teabagging morons. Its intended exactly the opposite of how you construed it dig the sand out of yer' vag.


So - how was it about teabagging?  Can you explain that?  I don't get it.  Like, it was about the Tea Party somehow?  Or actually about teabagging?  Obama is giving away other free stuff?  Like what?  You're required to pay for Obamacare - that's part of the problem.

(saying just kidding = telling everyone you have no balls)

No balls huh hows this for a definitive statement, you and little Rafael Cruz are scum. If I had my way people like you would be run through the streets nude with cattle prods for decent people to pelt with rotten vegetables. In a truly just or rational society people like you would be sterilized. You are worth less than the most rabidly insane right wing evangelist or global warming denier because at the very least they believe in something even if incredibly misguided. You dumb as rocks teabaggers are even worse the whole reason behind you entire movement is took keep as much of your MONEY as you can. You're willing to let your fellow Americans suffer hunger and deprivation, deny them health care and make your hay demonizing those most vulnerable in our society and you are proud of it. You disgust me period your lousy paycheck is more important to you than the good of our nation.

Still wanna call me passive aggressive?

By the way none of this is a joke in case you're confused again.


That was awesome.
 
2013-10-15 10:52:54 PM

Marcus Aurelius: By the by, I noticed that yesterday was Columbus Day and I had 1492 green lights at the time.


img541.imageshack.us

How in the Sam Hill does one get 1492 greenlights?

// Not completely sure I wanna know.
/// Fantastic quotes BTW
 
2013-10-15 11:02:18 PM

doglover: Wow. Warfare's come a long way.

Back in the civil war era, we buried 100s of men after even the smallest skirmishes. The big battles like Gettysburg? 10,000s of soldiers dead on both sides.

In Afghanistan the biggest firefight claimed 15 lives and we've passed out multiple Medals of Honor to the participants.


It is actually medical care that has come a long way.  Most of the dead in the Civil War were from illness, malnutrition, etc.  Even those who died from wounds were more likely to die from the infection than the actual injury.  Battlefield medicine has progressed an unbelievable amount in the last 15 years alone.  If we were limited to the care available as recently as Desert Storm the number of dead would skyrocket.

The tactics have also changed and there are now more smaller engagements rather than large massed formations running into each other.

It is actually surprising how few people were killed in battle in the Civil War.  It was actually common for engagements to end with no one dead or wounded, essentially whoever scared off the other side won as soldiers intentionally fired over each other's heads or didn't even fire their rifles.
 
2013-10-15 11:10:41 PM

Beauf: It is actually medical care that has come a long way.  Most of the dead in the Civil War were from illness, malnutrition, etc.  Even those who died from wounds were more likely to die from the infection than the actual injury.  Battlefield medicine has progressed an unbelievable amount in the last 15 years alone.  If we were limited to the care available as recently as Desert Storm the number of dead would skyrocket.

The tactics have also changed and there are now more smaller engagements rather than large massed formations running into each other.

It is actually surprising how few people were killed in battle in the Civil War.  It was actually common for engagements to end with no one dead or wounded, essentially whoever scared off the other side won as soldiers intentionally fired over each other's heads or didn't even fire their rifles.


I remember hearing a thing on NPR a few years back, comparing through all the major conflicts back to the American Revolution and the treatment of wounded.

Time from being wounded to being seen by a medic to being seen at an aid station to being seen at a field hospital to being evacuated to a full/perm. hospital.    The biggest game changer was heli's.  The average wounded US soldier can get to a field hospital quicker then a pizza.

As a side effect, the percentage of living wounded/crippled compared to the number of dead has also skyrocketed.
 
2013-10-15 11:22:32 PM

troggy: Sgt. First Class Kenneth Westbrook had been hit in the throat and was bleeding to death. Swenson and a medic helped Westbrook to the helicopter. Then, amid the hell of combat, something beautiful happened.

"Sgt. Westbrook kind of leaned down and Capt. Swenson kind of leaned down and they had, they kind of looked at each other and it appeared that they were talking, but Capt. Swenson kissed him on the forehead and then tapped the side of his head," Duerst said.

It's a good thing for Westbrook DADT was repealed, cuz that's gay as hell. I guess it's a good thing we're awarding medals for battefield smooches now instead of skill at murdering the other guy. Maybe this will lead to world peace.


Considering Westbrook died from his injuries, I don't think it would have mattered one way or the other.
 
2013-10-15 11:38:55 PM

Coco LaFemme: "If your brother was killed in action, would you want the body brought home to be buried, or strung up by his boots and used as a pinata?"



Ideally? Of course I would want the body brought home. But if it's a choice between a dead body (even if it had once belonged to my brother) being strung up by its boots and used as a pinata or another living man becoming a dead body in the course of trying to prevent that from happening, I'll take Option A every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Our first responsibility is to the living. There is absolutely no way that I would accept another soldier's death as the price for retrieving a lifeless corpse -- even if (in fact, *especially* if) that corpse had housed me or someone that I loved. I hope to God that I'll never have to bury my brother. But if I do, the funeral will be an homage to his life, not to the piece of flesh he lived it in. I would sleep much better at night -- and if there is such a thing as a soul, his would rest much easier -- if his corpse had been lost but another man's life had been saved rather than vice-versa.
 
2013-10-15 11:52:26 PM

thisisyourbrainonFark: Not doubting this guy deserves the medal, huge brass balls and all. But how about the other Medal of Honor recipient, any questions about his account?

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/10/14/205341/videos-contradict-medal -o f-honor.html


Well I suppose I could make a response, but it would be pretty profane.

Battlefield accounts are always going to be factually incorrect.  Eyewitnesses are the least reliable form of evidence.  When it is an incredibly stressful and mentally traumatic experience like the battle of Ganjgal valley, the accounts are going to be even worse.

What is true, is that this was a running chain of events that took place over the course of 7+ hours.  How many minutes of video footage is there?  Remember also that the footage played on the news was shot from a helicopter.  Helicopters don't like combat zones, they tend to attract bullets and end up dead.  Part of the problem was that the worst of the fighting happened when there was no Air and Arty support.

Remember also that Dakota was not the one who wrote up his MOH citation.  Numerous other military officers and enlisted were involved in producing his award.  These are people who did not have a vested interest in blowing smoke up peoples butts.  In fact, if they had to pick someone to make into an un-deserving hero, they would have probably selected anyone but Dakota.  Dakota was not the model of what a Marine should be until he went all hero during this battle.

Mcclatchy has a bone to pick with the "official narrative."  They have been disputing the award for awhile now (since Dakota made some tactless remarks about his civilian employers).  If you look at what McClatchy has done for research, you will find that they interviewed members of the Afghan National Army, and random other individuals about what happened that day.

Now, you can believe the officers and enlisted who were on the ground with Dakota, or you can believe the members of the ANA who broke and ran, and who probably also betrayed the raid in advance to the taliban.  Remember also that this is an incredibly politically contentious battle, because it was such a clusterfark.

TLDR: there are going to be inconsistencies in the various official stories.  Faulty memory, and a desire to avoid blame will ensure that the narrative is never clear.  However, the video tells very little of the story, and the people who were there feel that both Swenson and Meyers deserve a Medal of Honor.  McClatchy is just trying to publish a scoop and carry out a smear operation, but their sources of information are incredibly unreliable and have a vested interest in the truth not being known.
 
2013-10-15 11:56:31 PM

dittybopper: Uh, I'm pretty sure there are more than six living MoH recipients.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_living_Medal_of_Honor_recipient s


I personally know two.
 
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