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(New York Magazine)   What the first day of the default might look like   (nymag.com) divider line 93
    More: Scary, Sen. Ted Cruz, Treasury Secretary Jack Lew, Bipartisan Policy Center, stock traders, equity trading, United States Department of the Treasury, Felix Salmon, software patch  
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21777 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Oct 2013 at 5:35 PM (39 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-10-15 05:36:17 PM
8 votes:

IamKaiserSoze!!!: And I haven't read about anyone from either party taking credit for this mess


And you admit to being willfully ignorant! You are a hilarious gift that keeps on giving!

Maybe you'll understand funny pictures?

i.imgur.com
2013-10-15 07:00:19 PM
6 votes:

Overfiend: I get that the Tea Party Republicans are the ones being pig headed.

But why, right before we default, doesn't President Obama be the adult in the room and negotiate with them?

I mean, if defaulting is really gonna fark our country up, somebody needs to do something to stop it. Right?


I'll Godwin this one :)

For the same reason Neville Chamberlain was wrong to appease Hitler...it just gives them an appetite for more.

You don't discipline screaming children who refuse to eat their vegetables by giving them the cookies they want...
2013-10-15 07:08:49 PM
5 votes:

Overfiend: I get that the Tea Party Republicans are the ones being pig headed.

But why, right before we default, doesn't President Obama be the adult in the room and negotiate with them?

I mean, if defaulting is really gonna fark our country up, somebody needs to do something to stop it. Right?


OK, let's say that Obama "negotiates" with them.  They get a bunch of stuff they want, and in exchange, Obama gets... the nation doesn't default.  In a few months, when we come up against the debt ceiling again, they *will* make further demands.  Obama will be the "adult" and negotiate, give the Tea Party a bunch of stuff they want, and exchange, get... the nation not defaulting.  And in a few months, when we come up against the debt ceiling again...

The choice is between allowing the Tea Party to dictate all the terms of governance or to draw a line.  The line has to be drawn somewhere.  It should be here.
2013-10-15 07:25:19 PM
4 votes:

Overfiend: So the principal of standing his ground is more important than the shiatstorm from the default?

I am trying to understand -if the default is one of the worst things that could happen, wouldn't it be worth avoiding at all costs?


No. The pricetag Republicans are demanding is the death of the Constitution. Their way gives the Speaker of the House the ability to dictate to the President.
2013-10-15 07:22:00 PM
4 votes:

Overfiend: Larry Mahnken: Overfiend: I get that the Tea Party Republicans are the ones being pig headed.

But why, right before we default, doesn't President Obama be the adult in the room and negotiate with them?

I mean, if defaulting is really gonna fark our country up, somebody needs to do something to stop it. Right?

OK, let's say that Obama "negotiates" with them.  They get a bunch of stuff they want, and in exchange, Obama gets... the nation doesn't default.  In a few months, when we come up against the debt ceiling again, they *will* make further demands.  Obama will be the "adult" and negotiate, give the Tea Party a bunch of stuff they want, and exchange, get... the nation not defaulting.  And in a few months, when we come up against the debt ceiling again...

The choice is between allowing the Tea Party to dictate all the terms of governance or to draw a line.  The line has to be drawn somewhere.  It should be here.

So the principal of standing his ground is more important than the shiatstorm from the default?

I am trying to understand -if the default is one of the worst things that could happen, wouldn't it be worth avoiding at all costs?


Because then democracy is literally dead.  The government is ruled not by the elected leaders, but by whoever is willing to blow the whole thing up in order to get their way.
2013-10-15 06:39:10 PM
3 votes:

Maul555: It seems that everybody is missing the fact that all of these "continuing resolutions" and continuing debt ceiling crises are a direct result of this President and the democrats not signing off on a real budget since Obama took office.  That's right, this country has not had a budget in almost 6 years now.  The same budget that is mandated to be passed every farking year...   We don't need a farking CR, we don't need any farking debt cieling negotiations... Cut to the point and pass 1 damned budget in 2 farking terms in office!


You do know the Senate has passed a budget don't you?  But Republicans won't let the bill go to conference with the house?

1. 4/23 Senator Reid requested unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator Toomey blocked.
2. 5/6 Senator Reid requested unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator Cruz blocked.
3. 5/7 Senator Murray requested unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator McConnell blocked.
4. 5/8 Senator Warner asked unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator McConnell blocked.
5. 5/9 Senator Murray asked unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator McConnell blocked.
6. 5/14 Senator Warner asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator McConnell blocked.
7. 5/15 Senator Wyden asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator McConnell blocked.
8. 5/16 Senator Murray asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator Lee blocked.
9. 5/21 Senator Murray asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator Paul blocked.
10. 5/22 Senator Kaine asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator Rubio blocked.
11. 5/23 Senator McCaskill asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator Lee blocked.
12. 6/4 Senator Murray asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator Rubio blocked.
13. 6/12 Senator Kaine asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator Lee blocked.
14. 6/19 Senator Murray asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator Toomey blocked.
15. 6/26 Senator Murray requested unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator Cruz blocked.
16. 7/11 Senator Murray requested unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator Marco Rubio blocked.
17. 7/17 Senator Murray requested unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator Mike Lee blocked.
18. 8/1 Senator Durbin requested unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator Marco Rubio blocked.
19. 10/2 Senator Murray requested unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator Toomey blocked.
2013-10-15 06:32:07 PM
3 votes:

Maul555: It seems that everybody is missing the fact that all of these "continuing resolutions" and continuing debt ceiling crises are a direct result of this President and the democrats not signing off on a real budget since Obama took office.  That's right, this country has not had a budget in almost 6 years now.  The same budget that is mandated to be passed every farking year...   We don't need a farking CR, we don't need any farking debt cieling negotiations... Cut to the point and pass 1 damned budget in 2 farking terms in office!


Yeah, how come the President hasn't signed off on the real budget that the Republican House hasn't passed? WTF Obama? And these democrats with their Senate budget already full of compromises, trying to conference about it, blah blah blah? Compromise is for weaklings! Does the GOP look like a bunch of weaklings to you? If they were weak would they be threatening suicide if they don't get everything they want? Just sign off on the budget without all these excuses about it not being on your desk. Enough is enough.
2013-10-15 06:01:48 PM
3 votes:
"With slight tremors in his voice..."

Oh, the feels. Bring the dramas. Bring them!

The tremors are actually fears that a majority of Americans will realize the the government has it's probiscus more deeply embedded in the bloodstream of the American economy than it's worth. Suddenly, "You didn't build that," is going to be exposed for the huge lie that it really is. Sure, it will be uncomfortable, especially for those who have hitched their wagons to federal largesse. And also for those the government has chosen to regulate to the point of dependency on "permits" and "waivers", (artificial conditions enacted by the government in the effort to inexorably extend its reach and power.) The government doesn't create the economy, it rides it like a huge wave. It might, *might*, create conditions favorable to the economy, then leach off of it, but it certainly doesn't create it. It certainly can also create conditions toxic to it as well, as recent events have proven. People like you and I create the economy, by risking our savings, and investing our time, effort and money. *But*, only if the return is worth the risk of the investment, something that seems to always escape those who wish to leech, and those who wish to curry favor with the former.
2013-10-15 06:01:02 PM
3 votes:

olddinosaur: Hogwash as usual.

The world didn't end the last 17 times this happened, and it won't end now.


This has never happened before. Ever. Kind of the point, really. We're not talking "partial government shutdown" here, which has happened 17 times in the past, but "the entire country defaulting on its financial obligations," which has never happened in the history of this country.
2013-10-15 05:59:26 PM
3 votes:
Way too optimistic. The real trouble will start well before Halloween - we won't need to wait until "X Date", as credit agencies are already threatening to downgrade our credit rating even if we pass a temporary debt ceiling bill, because it's clear to them that we're at increased risk of default. Remember, we don't need to actually default to be at increased risk of default, as Fitch is already stating (and rightfully so.)

If we haven't cleared this up by EOD tomorrow, expect our credit rating downgrades to occur on October 17.

HotIgneous Intruder: It's not "republicans" doing this.
It's religious fundamentalists who have infiltrated the congress via the GOP.


Bullshiat. The "religious fundamentalists" didn't start the planning in January, nor are they the ones that changed the House rules to ensure this happened. The GOP, as a whole, participated in planning and implementing this disaster, as a deliberate act of political terrorism. The GOP doesn't get to point to a minority in their party and say, "...they're out of control! We didn't do it - it's their fault!" The career politicians in the GOP want to make this about an isolated, out-of-control group, but it's the GOP that invited those assholes in, fed & watered them, pointed them at the causes for which they could do the most damage, and basically used these assholes as attack dogs to forestall rational debate. The GOP worked with these assholes to construct the situation we're now in - the GOP doesn't get a pass by farting and pointing at the dog.
2013-10-15 05:51:10 PM
3 votes:

WTFDYW: olddinosaur: Hogwash as usual.

The world didn't end the last 17 times this happened, and it won't end now.

IIRC, we have never defaulted.


He thinks 'government shutdown' equals 'defaulting.'

A moron, in other words.
2013-10-15 05:25:57 PM
3 votes:

Elegy: Proof that every single one of you should have bought gold and were wrong for mocking Glenn Beck all those years.


HA! While all you idiots have been busy buying gold, I've been quietly cornering the market on wheelbarrows, which you're gonna need to haul that 150lbs of gold down to the store to buy a pack of smokes.
2013-10-15 04:59:08 PM
3 votes:
Proof that every single one of you should have bought gold and were wrong for mocking Glenn Beck all those years.
2013-10-15 10:53:30 PM
2 votes:

HAMMERTOE: 1) I said "make" points, not "score" points.


Seemed to me you were trying to count coup. I'll leave that to the jury.


HAMMERTOE: 2) I pay my full share. It's thoise who sell their votes to the democrats that tend to want to force me to pay their share too.


Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
upload.wikimedia.org

HAMMERTOE: 3) Yes, back when I was one of them. I went back to school, and struggled to better myself, while also raising children.


Where have I heard that story before?

HAMMERTOE: 4) I have plenty of empathy and sympathy for my fellow humans. But, there is a limit. I can't carry the weight of the world. And it is unethical to force me to, to the point of working me into poverty. I give to charity. I also volunteer.


Do you see that bold part there? I have mentioned before that I worked on a dairy farm, so I know manure and straw when I encounter them. Untrue, self-serving selfish excuses are false, self-serving, selfish, and lame.

HAMMERTOE: 5) "Political Sociopathy"... Really? You're going to sit there, amongst a group of people who have sold their voting power to the political party who promises them the most easy profit  from the sweat of other peoples' brows and call me a "Political Sociopath"?.


Yup. Because your characterization is false, and it contrasts the truth of my words more starkly with the self-serving, hateful lies of yours.  There's a huge gulf between your view (Fark you - I got mine!) and my view (We have an obligation take care of our own.).
You've indicted and convicted yourself with your own words as a political sociopath and perjurer.
2013-10-15 10:20:21 PM
2 votes:

HAMMERTOE: demaL-demaL-yeH: {long-winded, personally-insulting diatribe}

Whatever. At least I can actually make points, rather than having to resort to personal attacks. My point still stands. Shoot the messenger all you like.


1. This isn't a game, so there are no points to score.
2. Why are you so adamant about not paying your full dues for participation, life, and membership in a civilization?
(You know, the entire framework of infrastructure, culture, tradition, law, education, and government that makes it possible for you to have anything beyond what you can keep and hold on your person at all times - until somebody bigger, faster, or meaner takes it from you.)
3. Have you ever looked in a mirror and not liked what you see?
4. Have you ever looked at another human being and liked what you see? Or empathized? Or helped a total stranger with no expectation of reward?
5. Political sociopathy (aka "Screw you - I got mine!") is a parasitic mental illness that's been infecting the body politic since the Birchers took over the Republican Party in 1977.
2013-10-15 09:08:33 PM
2 votes:

Brockalisk: The debt ceiling law will become unconstitutional the moment it prevents payments of debts.


Bingo.

Unless Obama is a complete fool, there will be no default.  He'll order Treasury to ignore the unconstitutional debt ceiling law and keep making payments.  It'll eventually end up in the SCOTUS, and I can't imagine they'll ignore the 14th Amendment.

The House will vote to impeach him.  The Senate will shoot that down.  And this debt ceiling hostage situation will be put to bed forever.  Obama wins, GOP loses.
2013-10-15 08:41:31 PM
2 votes:

SlothB77: When did libs become the piss-in-your-pants scared of everything party?


http://www.uschamber.com/issues/letters/2013/multi-industry-coalitio n- letter-regarding-continuing-resolution-and-debt-limit

Hey Sloth, do these groups strike you as being "piss-in-your-pants" scared of everything types?  Hell, do they come close to even being "libs"?

You mistake a rational and healthy fear of a bunch of numb-nut, know-nothings wielding power that is best left to those who are capable, shutting down the govt and teetering our economy into the abyss (and taking the rest of the world with us) with an irrational fear: like the fear of "brown" people and securing health care for 30 million fellow Americans at a price lower than a percentage of what we spend on the military annually.  I don't fear the gun that's safely stored away in my gun vault, but I do fear a 6 yr old wandering around with that same gun, loaded and playing police and bank robbers.  In this case, a group of idiots (most first-termers) playing the role of politicians without what appears to be even an inkling of an understanding of what their job truly is.
2013-10-15 08:36:14 PM
2 votes:

Pick: In the end, it's plain and simple. This is all Obama's fault. If he had not rammed this train wreck called "The Affordable Health Care Act", down our throats, none of this would be happening. You see, in the end, it's not going to be affordable at all. And it's going to cost this country dearly.


scontent-b-mia.xx.fbcdn.net
2013-10-15 07:44:25 PM
2 votes:
10:45 am - CNBC's Jim Cramer assures investors that a deal will get done.
12:05 pm - CNBC's Jim Cramer blasts a caller who suggests shorting the market.  "Everything is fine!"
3:00 pm - CNBC's Jim Cramer, undaunted by the 1000 point drop in the Dow, proclaims, "It's a buyer's market!" and slaps a giant red button that makes a fart noise.
4:15 PM - CNBC's Jim Cramer, responding to news of the complete collapse of the money market, states, "The smart money hasn't left yet!"
10:00 PM - The Daily Show's Jon Stewart anally rapes CNBC's Jim Cramer with a didgeridoo.
2013-10-15 07:33:36 PM
2 votes:
So how close to the brink do we let this nation get before we start shooting these assholes for treason? Red, blue, whatever. Line the whole bunch of assholes up for utterly failing in their duties to the American public. After the third or fourth congress we have to line up and shoot, these stupid farks might start taking their job a little more seriously.
2013-10-15 07:26:52 PM
2 votes:

Overfiend: Larry Mahnken: Overfiend: I get that the Tea Party Republicans are the ones being pig headed.

But why, right before we default, doesn't President Obama be the adult in the room and negotiate with them?

I mean, if defaulting is really gonna fark our country up, somebody needs to do something to stop it. Right?

OK, let's say that Obama "negotiates" with them.  They get a bunch of stuff they want, and in exchange, Obama gets... the nation doesn't default.  In a few months, when we come up against the debt ceiling again, they *will* make further demands.  Obama will be the "adult" and negotiate, give the Tea Party a bunch of stuff they want, and exchange, get... the nation not defaulting.  And in a few months, when we come up against the debt ceiling again...

The choice is between allowing the Tea Party to dictate all the terms of governance or to draw a line.  The line has to be drawn somewhere.  It should be here.

So the principal of standing his ground is more important than the shiatstorm from the default?

I am trying to understand -if the default is one of the worst things that could happen, wouldn't it be worth avoiding at all costs?


The GOP are counting on exactly that sort of thinking. This sort of political blackmail should not be tolerated. If you give them what they want they're just going to do it again. How many more times do we have to endure this? How long do we let them go on damaging our reputation and endangering our nation's economy and well-being? If they want to repeal ACA at this point they need to follow the legal rules and precedents that exist to handle that sort of thing. Their current tactic is NOT how it's done and it is unacceptable behavior. In no way should Obama allow them to set a precedent by permitting this sort of tactic to work.

If it comes down to the wire I'm all for Obama having them arrested for treason and cleaning house.
2013-10-15 07:18:25 PM
2 votes:

Wolfling: Its a bit unfashionable to have a moderate view of this stuff... but here goes.

Interest rates will go up significantly in the US, but in other countries, where only a small percentage of internationally secured loans depend on US bonds, they'll only climb a percentage point or so.  For the vast majority of people, this just means a small hike in their home loan payments.

Commodity markets will be largely unaffected.  Manufacturers will continue to acquire raw materials, and will continue to sell their goods.  Indeed any sector of the market that deals in tangibles will continue to function just fine.  The banks will hurt a bit, and one or two of them might go under.  A lot of people will lose some of their savings.  Anyone who makes their living by milking the markets (eg not actually making anything useful) will hurt a bit - though there will always be a few who will profit from the situation.

The people who will suffer the most will be the 401ks and those who are so close to the poverty line that they can't afford another $500 per month on their mortgage.And almost all of these will be US citizens.  Most of these folks won't go under on day 1.  It'll take between a month and a year for their cash reserves to dry up... and that's only the small percentage who aren't able to adapt to the new environment.

So, the property market will dip (not plunge) on a wave of defaults, and it'll take 5-7 years for it to restabilise back to current levels.  Homelessness will rise a little.  Quality of living measures will drop off by a percentage point or two.

Its not exactly rioting in the streets now, is it?




I hate to be the one to tell you this, but you don't need to be anywhere near the poverty line for a $500/month expense to wipe you out quickly. At 300% of the poverty line you are making $35K/year - maybe taking home $2500/month. You mean to tell me that most people could absorb losing 20% of their income each month and only suffer a minor 'quality of living' issue?

The ripple effects would be enormous: Do we keep our home or stop paying Suzie's college tuition? Or do we make Suzie take out tons of loans and saddle her with debt that will crush her future? Well, we could stop buying clothes or anything other than food, because that won't impact the economy at all...
2013-10-15 07:12:29 PM
2 votes:
i236.photobucket.com

What's say we pull out the Freedom guillotine and water the tree of liberty?
2013-10-15 07:10:37 PM
2 votes:
This is just making me angry.

All countries before us have defaulted due to lack of funds and mismanagement of their countries. In our case, though... we are perfectly capable of paying our bills, yet we have a small fraction of one party in one portion of one house of one branch of government which is going to bring this down on our heads.

I'm just exhausted. My mom is on SSDI. She's got one leg and a bad back and hasn't been able to walk since I was 8. She relies on that money to survive. I called her last night to ask how things were going, and she went off on that "Bastard Obama". I just cannot comprehend this. Luckily, my older brother lives with her, so she won't be thrown out on the street, so I guess I have that going for me. There's a reason I moved 9 hours away from them...

I just can't fathom this. It really is reprehensible, yet we can do nothing about it.
2013-10-15 06:52:59 PM
2 votes:

Overfiend: I get that the Tea Party Republicans are the ones being pig headed.

But why, right before we default, doesn't President Obama be the adult in the room and negotiate with them?

I mean, if defaulting is really gonna fark our country up, somebody needs to do something to stop it. Right?


Because their only aim is to gut Obamacare, which ain't going to happen. You know, because it passed both houses of Congress and was upheld by the Supreme Court.
2013-10-15 06:45:48 PM
2 votes:
What it should look like.

www.aprayertoourfather.com
www.culturewars.com
2013-10-15 06:24:43 PM
2 votes:
Even if you are stupid enough to believe the proposals from the house looking for concessions is not hostage taking, how does one look at the house rule change to bill proposals + the GOP blocking budget conference committees 20 times as Obama causing this situation?
2013-10-15 06:15:56 PM
2 votes:
Whatever. I say we get all the worlds navies and militaries to point their weapons at the US and demand a clean bill or else.
2013-10-15 06:09:11 PM
2 votes:
I'm just glad that the party of fiscal responsibility has us on a path that has and will continue to cost America tens of billions of dollars.

What's the cost of an actual default? One additional point or more on interest payments plus credit downgrades?

That's gotta be a nice even $200b
2013-10-15 06:00:19 PM
2 votes:
img.fark.net
2013-10-15 05:55:36 PM
2 votes:

foo monkey: How is the House, where all funding bills originate, deciding to not fund Obamacare different than the Executive deciding what parts of laws to enforce?  It's a challenge to the House's Constitutional responsibilities, same as I see it claimed a challenge to the President's responsibilities.


The ACA is funded. Notice how it didn't stop when the government shut down?
2013-10-15 05:49:11 PM
2 votes:
Hogwash as usual.

The world didn't end the last 17 times this happened, and it won't end now.
2013-10-15 05:44:35 PM
2 votes:
img.fark.net
2013-10-15 05:41:14 PM
2 votes:
This is what happens when you have people fit to barely run a 5 cent lemonade stand in charge of a country's economy.
2013-10-15 05:28:08 PM
2 votes:

IamKaiserSoze!!!: Why does Obama want to kill the economy?


The Republicans have repeatedly taken credit for shutting down the government and for forcing a debt limit crisis. And according to polls, 74% of Americans are pretty pissed about it.
2013-10-15 05:17:57 PM
2 votes:
3:00 p.m. - Politico reports that Secretary Jack Lew has entered a closed-door meeting of House Republicans, and is imploring them to pass a bill extending the debt limit. "Stop the carnage," Lew is heard to say, by a reporter in the hallway outside.

Huh, the Repubs did this last week and Obama turned it down. Why does Obama want to kill the economy?

also, Jack Lew's a dick, but then that describes most of Obama's cabinet
2013-10-15 04:52:44 PM
2 votes:
img822.imageshack.us
2013-10-16 01:06:37 AM
1 votes:
If this happens, I am completely cool with the DC police rounding up GOP senators and congresscritters, hauling them to jail, trying them in court, and hanging each one of them for treason.
2013-10-16 12:58:12 AM
1 votes:
The Republicans changed the rules of the house on October 1 to keep the shutdown going.  Rather than any member being allowed to have a "privileged motion", only House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, R-Virginia or his designee is permitted to do so. (with video)

They never had any intention of resolving the issue.  They are going to default.  That was always the plan.
2013-10-16 12:51:27 AM
1 votes:

lawboy87: In this case, a group of idiots (most first-termers) playing the role of politicians without what appears to be even an inkling of an understanding of what their job truly is.


Sadly, I think they know exactly what their job is.
Their job was to be exactly the sort of unreasonably and uncompromisingly idealistic and dim-witted kamikaze pilots that their equally-stupid Tea Party constituents elected them to be.  They were NOT elected to be competent lawmakers, they were NOT elected to reach across the isle and compromise, or even to uphold the checked-and-balanced governing guidelines set out by the Constitution.  They were elected from, and by, crowds of drooling morons specifically to completely f**k up the machinations of a government that they simultaneously hate and rely on (whether they know it or not) by stomping their feet about whatever dumba** issue that the collective radical right has stuck in their craw and then jamming wrenches in the works when they don't get their way.  By all accounts, that appears to be exactly what they're doing.
2013-10-15 11:21:31 PM
1 votes:

cchris_39: jeffmw: Can someone explain why we can't pay our interest payments with the money coming in and "default" on other budget items?

We can and will do exactly that if it comes to it. The fear mongering and hand wringing is part of the liberal temper tantrum.


Our soldiers don't need their paychecks. They volunteered!
2013-10-15 11:13:27 PM
1 votes:
I sold my mutual funds betting that the government will fark things up.

/it's not possible to go wrong betting against government
2013-10-15 10:25:37 PM
1 votes:
And before you try to mis- represent it, the whole issue is that NOBODY is immune from math. Not the families who are watching their insurance premiums skyrocket, and not governments. This debt ceiling is being made out to be a very big deal. Funny how it was no big deal for families, who are already stretched about as far as they can be, to be suddenly hit with major increases in their healthcare coverage. This, in the name of "affordability". Once again, a money-shuffle of epic proportions, where the people who actually produce (yet get told, "You didn't make that,") are forced to shoulder even more weight of the chronically dependent. If it was really about "affordability", the answer would have been to bring costs down, not introduce yet another layer of bureaucracy into the mix.

You are either not intelligent enough to see this, or are personally invested in shirking your own costs onto the shoulders of others via selling your vote to the Democrats. While that may seem like an attack, it's really the only estimate I have left of your own reasoning. But the math is irrefutable, no matter which flavor of politics you subscribe to.
2013-10-15 09:16:36 PM
1 votes:
I want to see what happens when the senior citizens don't get their social security checks.  How fast can the AARP organize bus convoys for the seniors to march on Washington with pitchforks and walkers?  Just put a country kitchen buffet next to congress and there's gonna be some smack down.

i1.ytimg.com
2013-10-15 08:22:14 PM
1 votes:
This has been an interesting discussion.

But what if the ACA is just a smoke screen? What if the 1% are tired of interest rates being so low? Wouldn't this be a way for them to raise the interest rates substantially, without getting blamed for it?

The transfer of funds from the middle class continues, unimpeded...
2013-10-15 08:19:54 PM
1 votes:

jeffmw: Can someone explain why we can't pay our interest payments with the money coming in and "default" on other budget items?


It's been explained numerous times in the threads relating to the shutdown.

The treasury has no mechanism for prioritizing debt, because the constitution says that all debt has to be honored. Therefore, they have a FIFO system (First In, First Out). Even if they decided to do this, it would not be possible to develop a system and put it in place before the defaults began to occur.

I'm sure some other farker here can explain in more detail, but the short answer is: It's Impossible.
2013-10-15 08:19:41 PM
1 votes:

rigmort: So much drivel from uninformed liberals around here.

http://www.hpe.com/opinion/x559273386/Thomas-Sowell-Who-shut-down-th e- government

"There is really nothing complicated about the facts. The Republican-controlled House of Representatives voted all the money required to keep all government activities going - except for Obamacare.
This is not a matter of opinion. You can check the Congressional Record.
As for the House of Representatives' right to grant or withhold money, that is not a matter of opinion either. You can check the Constitution of the United States. All spending bills must originate in the House of Representatives, which means that congressmen there have a right to decide whether or not they want to spend money on a particular government activity. "

"If Sen. Reid and President Obama refuse to accept the money required to run the government, because it leaves out the money they want to run Obamacare, that is their right. But that is also their responsibility. "


Bullsquat. It's a tax repeal - and other nonbudgetary items - bundled with either a budget resolution or a debt ceiling authorization.
2013-10-15 08:15:31 PM
1 votes:
Can someone explain why we can't pay our interest payments with the money coming in and "default" on other budget items?
2013-10-15 08:06:24 PM
1 votes:

HAMMERTOE: "With slight tremors in his voice..."

Oh, the feels. Bring the dramas. Bring them!

The tremors are actually fears that a majority of Americans will realize the the government has it's probiscus more deeply embedded in the bloodstream of the American economy than it's worth. Suddenly, "You didn't build that," is going to be exposed for the huge lie that it really is. Sure, it will be uncomfortable, especially for those who have hitched their wagons to federal largesse. And also for those the government has chosen to regulate to the point of dependency on "permits" and "waivers", (artificial conditions enacted by the government in the effort to inexorably extend its reach and power.) The government doesn't create the economy, it rides it like a huge wave. It might, *might*, create conditions favorable to the economy, then leach off of it, but it certainly doesn't create it. It certainly can also create conditions toxic to it as well, as recent events have proven. People like you and I create the economy, by risking our savings, and investing our time, effort and money. *But*, only if the return is worth the risk of the investment, something that seems to always escape those who wish to leech, and those who wish to curry favor with the former.


Just finish Atlas Shrugged?
2013-10-15 07:54:54 PM
1 votes:
I must remind myself, never get home from work after travel at 2am, and watch World War Z just to wind down. Lucid dreams and Fark politics threads DO NOT work well together.

/and do it all again tomorrow.
2013-10-15 07:52:01 PM
1 votes:
At 8:00 am as they are exiting their respective residences, both Ted Cruz and Steve King are shot by at least half a dozen snipers. Immediately, the press is bombarded with messages from several organizations taking credit for the shooting with the message that the next Congress Member who votes against extending the Debt Ceiling and continuing the Govt shutdown will meet the same fate within the day.

Later investigations reveal that the snipers were actually acting independently: one hired by the Chinese Govt, one by the Koch Bros, and one by the US Chamber of Commerce.

At 8:35 Congress adjourns having unanimously passed a Debt Ceiling raise and resolution reopening the Govt.*

*This is of course a fictional narrative, along the lines the author of this article engaged (pure speculation) and is not intended in any way to suggest that this is a legitimate means of solving political differences.  Just one of the billions of possible scenarios which could lead to a deal being worked out.
2013-10-15 07:43:49 PM
1 votes:
Maybe this might teach those fat-cats and special interest peddlers in DC to STOP RUNNING UP DEBT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
2013-10-15 07:39:01 PM
1 votes:

Pick: In the end, it's plain and simple. This is all Obama's fault. If he had not rammed this train wreck called "The Affordable Health Care Act", down our throats, none of this would be happening. You see, in the end, it's not going to be affordable at all. And it's going to cost this country dearly.


So, pick one - when I ignore you, should I label you as "Troll" or "Idiot"? I'm on the fence - I'm assuming you're a troll, as I'd normally assume that there's no one that stupid out there, but, lately, I'm finding that I really tend to overestimate the average intelligence of some folks, so I could be wrong.
2013-10-15 07:35:00 PM
1 votes:
In the end, it's plain and simple. This is all Obama's fault. If he had not rammed this train wreck called "The Affordable Health Care Act", down our throats, none of this would be happening. You see, in the end, it's not going to be affordable at all. And it's going to cost this country dearly.
2013-10-15 07:33:44 PM
1 votes:

HAMMERTOE: Overfiend: I am trying to understand -if the default is one of the worst things that could happen, wouldn't it be worth avoiding at all costs?

You see, it's only the worst possible outcome to those who are financially or idealistically tied to the concept of the federal government having access to ever-increasing sums of money to spend like drunken sailors.


Would you please come up with something that isn't regurgitated-from-somewhere-stupid (online/radio/Fox), facially incorrect, illogical, factually, intellectually and morally bankrupt tripe?
/Perhaps something that indicates    original   thought, or even an original and creative troll?
2013-10-15 07:29:22 PM
1 votes:
Zomg the TPers are right!

static-l3.blogcritics.org
2013-10-15 07:20:51 PM
1 votes:

Overfiend: I get that the Tea Party Republicans are the ones being pig headed.

But why, right before we default, doesn't President Obama be the adult in the room and negotiate with them?

I mean, if defaulting is really gonna fark our country up, somebody needs to do something to stop it. Right?


If it actually *works* to threaten to intentionally destroy the economy unless they are allowed to make an end run around the normal political process in *this* case--countering a law duly passed by Congress, signed by the President, and upheld by the Supreme Court (after which the President won re-election no less)--then they can rightly expect it to work in any case, the entire governmental process will come down to an annual round of Russian roulette, and the power of a faction of one party in one House will be exaggerated to the point of breaking the separation/balance of powers. Obama has remained firm while they send us a toe of the economy here and an ear there, because ultimately the hostage's only chance of release is to not be useful as a hostage.
2013-10-15 07:15:10 PM
1 votes:
Elephans and asses, screwing the masses....
2013-10-15 07:06:30 PM
1 votes:

Mega Steve: [img.fark.net image 850x680]


Ah CoH, how I miss thee...

/lvl 50 controller
2013-10-15 06:53:58 PM
1 votes:
That isn't a realistic scenario. That there is rose-tinted optimism. The accidental default in 1979 had more severe consequences.
2013-10-15 06:49:28 PM
1 votes:

Cyrus the Mediocre: Feb 23, 2014

Left the city behind, still fighting there.  Must be Republican holdouts.

Met a fellow traveler on the road.  Wanted to trade gold coins for foodstuffs.  Moron

Running low on proteins, have to go hunting, old Wal-Mart nearby.  Might be something left.

Heading east.


Mar. 17, 2014

Continued east.

Found a mule.

Met a farmer named Brown.  He has a crow for a pet.
2013-10-15 06:34:24 PM
1 votes:
In other news, the govenment will still be taking in $3.1 trillion and net interest payments are about $220 billion.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_budget_pie_chart">http://www. usgovernmentspending.com/us_budget_pie_chart
2013-10-15 06:31:39 PM
1 votes:
davidtlamb.files.wordpress.com
2013-10-15 06:25:34 PM
1 votes:
baseballcrank.com
2013-10-15 06:22:01 PM
1 votes:

Maul555: It seems that everybody is missing the fact that all of these "continuing resolutions" and continuing debt ceiling crises are a direct result of this President and the democrats not signing off on a real budget since Obama took office.  That's right, this country has not had a budget in almost 6 years now.  The same budget that is mandated to be passed every farking year...   We don't need a farking CR, we don't need any farking debt cieling negotiations... Cut to the point and pass 1 damned budget in 2 farking terms in office!


The president should pass and sign his own budget?

What if the democrats agreed to a budget for 2014 that was at sequester levels? Boy, it'd be a huge goddamn concession if Reid and Boehner agreed to that.
2013-10-15 06:20:51 PM
1 votes:
October 31, 7:00 PM:   Hello, is this Jack Lew? This is Expert Global Solutions. We are attempting to collect a debt - CLICK

October 31, 7:05 PM:  Hello, is this Jack Lew? This is Expert Global Solutions. We are attempting to - CLICK

October 31, 7:12 PM:  Hello, is this Jack Lew? This is Expert Global Solutions. We are - CLICK

October 31, 7:21 PM:  Hello, is this Jack Lew? This is Expert Global Solutions. - CLICK

October 31, 7:34 PM:  Hello, is this Jack Lew? This is Expert  - CLICK

October 31, 7:43 PM:  Hello, is this Jack Lew? - CLICK
2013-10-15 06:20:34 PM
1 votes:
It seems that everybody is missing the fact that all of these "continuing resolutions" and continuing debt ceiling crises are a direct result of this President and the democrats not signing off on a real budget since Obama took office.  That's right, this country has not had a budget in almost 6 years now.  The same budget that is mandated to be passed every farking year...   We don't need a farking CR, we don't need any farking debt cieling negotiations... Cut to the point and pass 1 damned budget in 2 farking terms in office!
2013-10-15 06:20:21 PM
1 votes:
cloud1.baohe.org
2013-10-15 06:11:47 PM
1 votes:
The Republicans did the first smart thing either party has done in decades.  They offered to end the shutdown over the Obamacare fiasco by requiring everybody in Congress and the President on down to have to receive their health insurance through Obamacare.  Unfortunately, even if it passes Congressional leaders, most being a part of the 1 percent, will be able to afford Obamacare as well as a secondary insurance,

Obamacare is the president's way of saying:  "I don't f*cking care about you, I just want to f*ck you".
2013-10-15 06:09:06 PM
1 votes:

Wolfling: Its a bit unfashionable to have a moderate view of this stuff... but here goes.


It's almost worth a one month default just to repost your comment a month from now, just to see how silly you sound.
2013-10-15 06:06:06 PM
1 votes:

Nadie_AZ: Oh. So Fallout. Cool, cool. Anyone got a spare pipboy I can use?


Sure, but first I need you to take this coin to someone in Vegas for me
2013-10-15 06:05:31 PM
1 votes:

gnosis301: Didn't read. Was it the capital wasteland from Fallout 3?


It was creative writing media fearmongering with a dash of ooga-booga and a side of pearl-clutching.
2013-10-15 06:01:35 PM
1 votes:
Best case scenario:
www.jonathanrosenbaum.com

Worst case scenario:

image.gamespotcdn.net
2013-10-15 06:00:10 PM
1 votes:

Grand_Moff_Joseph: "Until recently, asking what would happen if the U.S. defaulted on its debt was like asking what unicorns like to eat for breakfast"

Silly reporter, that's easy -- Oats with honey, a side of toast, and some juice.  Coffee if a certain purple unicorn is at the table.


Sweetie Belle : Cooking :: John Boehner : Governing
2013-10-15 05:54:47 PM
1 votes:
Interesting how Fark so be so skeptical about everything but read this and believe every word of it.
2013-10-15 05:50:21 PM
1 votes:

olddinosaur: Hogwash as usual.

The world didn't end the last 17 times this happened, and it won't end now.


IIRC, we have never defaulted.
2013-10-15 05:50:18 PM
1 votes:

HotIgneous Intruder: It's not "republicans" doing this.
It's religious fundamentalists who have infiltrated the congress via the GOP.


And a Speaker who values his job as Speaker more than he values the global economy.
2013-10-15 05:49:48 PM
1 votes:

HotIgneous Intruder: It's not "republicans" doing this.
It's religious fundamentalists who have infiltrated the congress via the GOP.


So republicans amirite XD
2013-10-15 05:48:44 PM
1 votes:
It's not "republicans" doing this.
It's religious fundamentalists who have infiltrated the congress via the GOP.
2013-10-15 05:47:23 PM
1 votes:

The Stealth Hippopotamus: actually this:

[img541.imageshack.us image 640x480]

Is what my Thursday will look like. Goin Fishin


That's weird, it was upright in the previews.

I blame the Republicans
2013-10-15 05:47:23 PM
1 votes:

The Stealth Hippopotamus: actually this:

[img541.imageshack.us image 640x480]

Is what my Thursday will look like. Goin Fishin


Fishing sideways? Is your boat sinking?
2013-10-15 05:46:26 PM
1 votes:
IamKaiserSoze!!!: shower_in_my_socks: IamKaiserSoze!!!: Why does Obama want to kill the economy?

The Republicans have repeatedly taken credit for shutting down the government and for forcing a debt limit crisis. And according to polls, 74% of Americans are pretty pissed about it.

Um, they offered an extension on the debt ceiling while making unreasonable, unrelated demands to delay/defund Obamacare, while offering no concessions in return,and Obama turned them down. That's pretty indisputable and easy to understand.


And no, 'Allowing the government, the national economy and the GLOBAL economy to continue functioning' is not a concession. That's a hostage.
2013-10-15 05:46:20 PM
1 votes:
actually this:

img541.imageshack.us

Is what my Thursday will look like. Goin Fishin
2013-10-15 05:45:14 PM
1 votes:
By Day 30;

0.tqn.com
2013-10-15 05:45:12 PM
1 votes:
Here's hoping.   Sometimes you have to rip the bandaid off all at once, and in this case, flush it down the toilet and start over.
2013-10-15 05:43:55 PM
1 votes:
10:01pm I will be drunk and asleep hoarding my valuable farks to give for things that matter... like pizza toppings.
2013-10-15 05:43:31 PM
1 votes:
The debt ceiling law will become unconstitutional the moment it prevents payments of debts.
2013-10-15 05:34:01 PM
1 votes:

IamKaiserSoze!!!: shower_in_my_socks: IamKaiserSoze!!!: Why does Obama want to kill the economy?

The Republicans have repeatedly taken credit for shutting down the government and for forcing a debt limit crisis. And according to polls, 74% of Americans are pretty pissed about it.

Um, they offered an extension on the debt ceiling and Obama turned them down. That's pretty indisputable and easy to understand.And I haven't read about anyone from either party taking credit for this mess


Yet you clearly don't understand. Pretty damn funny!
2013-10-15 05:30:56 PM
1 votes:

shower_in_my_socks: IamKaiserSoze!!!: Why does Obama want to kill the economy?

The Republicans have repeatedly taken credit for shutting down the government and for forcing a debt limit crisis. And according to polls, 74% of Americans are pretty pissed about it.


Um, they offered an extension on the debt ceiling and Obama turned them down. That's pretty indisputable and easy to understand.

And I haven't read about anyone from either party taking credit for this mess
2013-10-15 05:22:31 PM
1 votes:

ourbigdumbmouth: And by the way, the Fed's charter is about up.


Yeah.... except no.

The Federal Reserve Act originally had a 20 year charter, but was later amended to state that the Act will be in effect until explicity dissolved -- i.e., no expiration date.
2013-10-15 05:10:16 PM
1 votes:
And by the way, the Fed's charter is about up. Time to start issueing debt free currency.

They have failed in their mission.

Or simply make them a non-profit.
2013-10-15 05:03:56 PM
1 votes:
Why not ask the people who are collecting the interest on our debt for extra time? Or nationalize the FED and free up a couple trillion in debt we owe them.
2013-10-15 04:47:18 PM
1 votes:

Bareefer Obonghit: But what's the last day look like? Why can't you use your time machine to tell us how it ends? What a waste of a perfectly good time machine.


You didn't read the article.
 
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