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(New York Magazine)   What the first day of the default might look like   (nymag.com) divider line 247
    More: Scary, Sen. Ted Cruz, Treasury Secretary Jack Lew, Bipartisan Policy Center, stock traders, equity trading, United States Department of the Treasury, Felix Salmon, software patch  
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21771 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Oct 2013 at 5:35 PM (26 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-15 07:49:44 PM

Metalupis: Nadie_AZ: Oh. So Fallout. Cool, cool. Anyone got a spare pipboy I can use?

Sure, but first I need you to take this coin to someone in Vegas for me


Better than trying to take that coin from the person bringing it to Vegas.

/heard that guy's one tough dude
 
2013-10-15 07:52:01 PM
At 8:00 am as they are exiting their respective residences, both Ted Cruz and Steve King are shot by at least half a dozen snipers. Immediately, the press is bombarded with messages from several organizations taking credit for the shooting with the message that the next Congress Member who votes against extending the Debt Ceiling and continuing the Govt shutdown will meet the same fate within the day.

Later investigations reveal that the snipers were actually acting independently: one hired by the Chinese Govt, one by the Koch Bros, and one by the US Chamber of Commerce.

At 8:35 Congress adjourns having unanimously passed a Debt Ceiling raise and resolution reopening the Govt.*

*This is of course a fictional narrative, along the lines the author of this article engaged (pure speculation) and is not intended in any way to suggest that this is a legitimate means of solving political differences.  Just one of the billions of possible scenarios which could lead to a deal being worked out.
 
2013-10-15 07:52:57 PM
Let's face it, it will be almost as bad as the Y2K crisis.

Better start hoarding the canned beans and bullets.
 
2013-10-15 07:54:54 PM
I must remind myself, never get home from work after travel at 2am, and watch World War Z just to wind down. Lucid dreams and Fark politics threads DO NOT work well together.

/and do it all again tomorrow.
 
2013-10-15 07:56:10 PM

lawboy87: At 8:00 am as they are exiting their respective residences, both Ted Cruz and Steve King are shot by at least half a dozen snipers. Immediately, the press is bombarded with messages from several organizations taking credit for the shooting with the message that the next Congress Member who votes against extending the Debt Ceiling and continuing the Govt shutdown will meet the same fate within the day.

Later investigations reveal that the snipers were actually acting independently: one hired by the Chinese Govt, one by the Koch Bros, and one by the US Chamber of Commerce.

At 8:35 Congress adjourns having unanimously passed a Debt Ceiling raise and resolution reopening the Govt.*

*This is of course a fictional narrative, along the lines the author of this article engaged (pure speculation) and is not intended in any way to suggest that this is a legitimate means of solving political differences.  Just one of the billions of possible scenarios which could lead to a deal being worked out.


The Onion was there first, did it better. Sorry!

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-10-15 07:56:37 PM

StopLurkListen: Get ready. Withdraw cash, get non-perishable food ...

[www.xconomy.com image 300x200]
[www.mreinfo.com image 800x489]


I work for a dry bean company. We have canned and dry edible beans in the store room free for employees. I'll eat plenty good, and still pull in a salary, regardless of these chucklefarks.

/Not sure how long that will last if this really happens, but probably longer than most folk in the bigger cities.
 
2013-10-15 08:01:23 PM
In reality: First day of default - Get up, coffee, beer, shiat, shower, shave, go to work, abuse the 'man', come home, dinner, shiat shower & shave, beers. bedtime. Rinse/repeat.
 
2013-10-15 08:03:13 PM

MrSteve007: The Stealth Hippopotamus: actually this:

[img541.imageshack.us image 640x480]

Is what my Thursday will look like. Goin Fishin

Fishing sideways? Is your boat sinking?


The default will cause the pond to turn sideways. After 30 days it'll be upside down
 
2013-10-15 08:06:24 PM

HAMMERTOE: "With slight tremors in his voice..."

Oh, the feels. Bring the dramas. Bring them!

The tremors are actually fears that a majority of Americans will realize the the government has it's probiscus more deeply embedded in the bloodstream of the American economy than it's worth. Suddenly, "You didn't build that," is going to be exposed for the huge lie that it really is. Sure, it will be uncomfortable, especially for those who have hitched their wagons to federal largesse. And also for those the government has chosen to regulate to the point of dependency on "permits" and "waivers", (artificial conditions enacted by the government in the effort to inexorably extend its reach and power.) The government doesn't create the economy, it rides it like a huge wave. It might, *might*, create conditions favorable to the economy, then leach off of it, but it certainly doesn't create it. It certainly can also create conditions toxic to it as well, as recent events have proven. People like you and I create the economy, by risking our savings, and investing our time, effort and money. *But*, only if the return is worth the risk of the investment, something that seems to always escape those who wish to leech, and those who wish to curry favor with the former.


Just finish Atlas Shrugged?
 
2013-10-15 08:07:29 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: Overfiend: So the principal of standing his ground is more important than the shiatstorm from the default?

I am trying to understand -if the default is one of the worst things that could happen, wouldn't it be worth avoiding at all costs?

No. The pricetag Republicans are demanding is the death of the Constitution. Their way gives the Speaker of the House the ability to dictate to the President.


I don't believe it'll happen (I think they'll make a deal).

But we might find out...
 
2013-10-15 08:12:25 PM

StopLurkListen: lawboy87: At 8:00 am as they are exiting their respective residences, both Ted Cruz and Steve King are shot by at least half a dozen snipers. Immediately, the press is bombarded with messages from several organizations taking credit for the shooting with the message that the next Congress Member who votes against extending the Debt Ceiling and continuing the Govt shutdown will meet the same fate within the day.

Later investigations reveal that the snipers were actually acting independently: one hired by the Chinese Govt, one by the Koch Bros, and one by the US Chamber of Commerce.

At 8:35 Congress adjourns having unanimously passed a Debt Ceiling raise and resolution reopening the Govt.*

*This is of course a fictional narrative, along the lines the author of this article engaged (pure speculation) and is not intended in any way to suggest that this is a legitimate means of solving political differences.  Just one of the billions of possible scenarios which could lead to a deal being worked out.

The Onion was there first, did it better. Sorry!

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 365x317]


But he did make it on a list, so that's nice.
 
2013-10-15 08:15:31 PM
Can someone explain why we can't pay our interest payments with the money coming in and "default" on other budget items?
 
2013-10-15 08:17:37 PM
So much drivel from uninformed liberals around here.

http://www.hpe.com/opinion/x559273386/Thomas-Sowell-Who-shut-down-th e- government

"There is really nothing complicated about the facts. The Republican-controlled House of Representatives voted all the money required to keep all government activities going - except for Obamacare.
This is not a matter of opinion. You can check the Congressional Record.
As for the House of Representatives' right to grant or withhold money, that is not a matter of opinion either. You can check the Constitution of the United States. All spending bills must originate in the House of Representatives, which means that congressmen there have a right to decide whether or not they want to spend money on a particular government activity. "

"If Sen. Reid and President Obama refuse to accept the money required to run the government, because it leaves out the money they want to run Obamacare, that is their right. But that is also their responsibility. "
 
2013-10-15 08:17:41 PM

jeffmw: Can someone explain why we can't pay our interest payments with the money coming in and "default" on other budget items?


All debt obligations authorized by law, according to Amendment XIV.
 
2013-10-15 08:19:21 PM
people that control your life in some way want you to feel pain
 
2013-10-15 08:19:25 PM

FormlessOne: If we haven't cleared this up by EOD tomorrow, expect our credit rating downgrades to occur on October 17.


Actually, there have been hints already by several rating agencies that we're going to get a downgrade one way or the other now.

It will be a MUCH larger one if we actually default, but we've come so close to it by this point that even if this moment the debt ceiling was raised that the confidence in the US dollar has already been damaged.
 
2013-10-15 08:19:41 PM

rigmort: So much drivel from uninformed liberals around here.

http://www.hpe.com/opinion/x559273386/Thomas-Sowell-Who-shut-down-th e- government

"There is really nothing complicated about the facts. The Republican-controlled House of Representatives voted all the money required to keep all government activities going - except for Obamacare.
This is not a matter of opinion. You can check the Congressional Record.
As for the House of Representatives' right to grant or withhold money, that is not a matter of opinion either. You can check the Constitution of the United States. All spending bills must originate in the House of Representatives, which means that congressmen there have a right to decide whether or not they want to spend money on a particular government activity. "

"If Sen. Reid and President Obama refuse to accept the money required to run the government, because it leaves out the money they want to run Obamacare, that is their right. But that is also their responsibility. "


Bullsquat. It's a tax repeal - and other nonbudgetary items - bundled with either a budget resolution or a debt ceiling authorization.
 
2013-10-15 08:19:54 PM

jeffmw: Can someone explain why we can't pay our interest payments with the money coming in and "default" on other budget items?


It's been explained numerous times in the threads relating to the shutdown.

The treasury has no mechanism for prioritizing debt, because the constitution says that all debt has to be honored. Therefore, they have a FIFO system (First In, First Out). Even if they decided to do this, it would not be possible to develop a system and put it in place before the defaults began to occur.

I'm sure some other farker here can explain in more detail, but the short answer is: It's Impossible.
 
2013-10-15 08:21:44 PM

orclover: House Speaker John Boehner wakes up in his bed, after a short and sleepless night.

Stopped reading there.


The following sentence confirmed that it's all fantasy:

He spent most of the past 24 hours begging House Republican holdouts to come to their senses and extend the debt limit with a deal hammered out by Senators Harry Reid and Mitch McConnell hours earlier.
 
2013-10-15 08:22:14 PM
This has been an interesting discussion.

But what if the ACA is just a smoke screen? What if the 1% are tired of interest rates being so low? Wouldn't this be a way for them to raise the interest rates substantially, without getting blamed for it?

The transfer of funds from the middle class continues, unimpeded...
 
2013-10-15 08:25:12 PM
When did libs become the piss-in-your-pants scared of everything party?
 
2013-10-15 08:25:43 PM

mediablitz: Treygreen13: gnosis301: Didn't read. Was it the capital wasteland from Fallout 3?

It was creative writing media fearmongering with a dash of ooga-booga and a side of pearl-clutching.

Are you suggesting a default won't be an issue?


No, but I am suggesting there won't be officials crying "STOP THE CARNAGE" with quivering voices.
 
2013-10-15 08:31:13 PM
"In politics, nothing  happens by accident. If it  happens, you can bet it was planned that way."
                                                                                                            -  Franklin D. Roosevelt
 
2013-10-15 08:33:09 PM

SlothB77: When did libs become the piss-in-your-pants scared of everything party?


Never. But the Republicans have been pants-crapping cowards since Teddy Roosevelt left office.
 
2013-10-15 08:36:14 PM

Pick: In the end, it's plain and simple. This is all Obama's fault. If he had not rammed this train wreck called "The Affordable Health Care Act", down our throats, none of this would be happening. You see, in the end, it's not going to be affordable at all. And it's going to cost this country dearly.


scontent-b-mia.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2013-10-15 08:41:31 PM

SlothB77: When did libs become the piss-in-your-pants scared of everything party?


http://www.uschamber.com/issues/letters/2013/multi-industry-coalitio n- letter-regarding-continuing-resolution-and-debt-limit

Hey Sloth, do these groups strike you as being "piss-in-your-pants" scared of everything types?  Hell, do they come close to even being "libs"?

You mistake a rational and healthy fear of a bunch of numb-nut, know-nothings wielding power that is best left to those who are capable, shutting down the govt and teetering our economy into the abyss (and taking the rest of the world with us) with an irrational fear: like the fear of "brown" people and securing health care for 30 million fellow Americans at a price lower than a percentage of what we spend on the military annually.  I don't fear the gun that's safely stored away in my gun vault, but I do fear a 6 yr old wandering around with that same gun, loaded and playing police and bank robbers.  In this case, a group of idiots (most first-termers) playing the role of politicians without what appears to be even an inkling of an understanding of what their job truly is.
 
2013-10-15 08:44:32 PM
abortionsforall.files.wordpress.com
All Hail Speaker Humungus!
 
2013-10-15 09:04:11 PM
Well, I'll yet again retreat to my bunker, equipped with spam, refried beans, weed, booze, every episode of MST3K, the first 15 seasons of "The Simpsons", an Xbox, and lots of guns. Oh, and a crate full of duct tape. After the initial shiartstorm, regroup at the Washington monument and help get America 2.0 up and running. Stanford 2015, two deathcars in every garage and Nuka-cola in every fridge!
Oh, I advise to buy a crate full of duct tape. All those idiots buying gold will be begging to get them some of nature's miracle adhesive once the SHTF. How else are you going to attach things in a convenient manner? Vines? Where do you think you are, Gilligan's Island? With duct tape, you can fix holes in your clothes, make a sling for your Fat Man, or make some rope for a fire drill. Soon, I shall control all the duct tape. And then Richard C Stanford shall rule BarterTown.
 
2013-10-15 09:06:22 PM

Jacobin: Just finish Atlas Shrugged?


No.

Lest you assume that I'm ideologically tied to the GOP, I'll just take this single opportunity to say that it's a damn shame that I have to ally myself with a party of hypocritical, greedy, superstitious pricks because they're the ONLY party that believes that you should be entitled to a larger share of the fruit of your labors than the government, and by extension, the chronically parasitic.

A damn shame indeed.
 
2013-10-15 09:08:33 PM

Brockalisk: The debt ceiling law will become unconstitutional the moment it prevents payments of debts.


Bingo.

Unless Obama is a complete fool, there will be no default.  He'll order Treasury to ignore the unconstitutional debt ceiling law and keep making payments.  It'll eventually end up in the SCOTUS, and I can't imagine they'll ignore the 14th Amendment.

The House will vote to impeach him.  The Senate will shoot that down.  And this debt ceiling hostage situation will be put to bed forever.  Obama wins, GOP loses.
 
2013-10-15 09:15:22 PM

HAMMERTOE: Jacobin: Just finish Atlas Shrugged?

No.

Lest you assume that I'm ideologically tied to the GOP, I'll just take this single opportunity to say that it's a damn shame that I have to ally myself with a party of hypocritical, greedy, superstitious pricks because they're the ONLY party that believes that you should be entitled to a larger share of the fruit of your labors than the government, and by extension, the chronically parasitic.

A damn shame indeed.


As constipated as your "thought" processes so obviously are, I'm amazed you can grind out correctly-spelled words, let alone grammatical, but nonsensical and economically, ethically, morally, logically and empirically incorrect, sentences. (Are you   TypewriterMonkeyNumberTenBillionOne?)
 
2013-10-15 09:16:36 PM
I want to see what happens when the senior citizens don't get their social security checks.  How fast can the AARP organize bus convoys for the seniors to march on Washington with pitchforks and walkers?  Just put a country kitchen buffet next to congress and there's gonna be some smack down.

i1.ytimg.com
 
2013-10-15 09:24:08 PM
Anybody talking about prioritization should have to pick who gets stiffed.
 
2013-10-15 09:26:53 PM

Sheila_McSly: Anybody talking about prioritization should have to pick who gets stiffed.


Starting with his own constituents and any payments to corporations with offices in his congressional district.
 
2013-10-15 09:27:12 PM

SlothB77: When did libs become the piss-in-your-pants scared of everything party?


Really? Is this all you've got? You're calling us pussies because we libs feel a sense of fiscal responsibility for our debt holders - the American people.

Well alrighty then. Duly noted as "thinks fiscal responsibility is for wimps"
 
2013-10-15 09:32:38 PM
Have fun trying to explain to your elderly, rural Tea Party constituents why making sure some Chinese investment bankers deserve a big payday, but they won't be getting their Social Security checks or farm bills.
 
2013-10-15 09:33:19 PM
LOL, the US will not default any time soon. It's literally almost impossible. Seriously, there are way too many countries dependant on the US. I'm not saying it will never happen but it's not happening now.
 
2013-10-15 09:34:35 PM
OK that sentence has some problems, but you know what I mean.

/I know, they'll just blame Obama.
 
2013-10-15 09:38:39 PM

dchurch0: jeffmw: Can someone explain why we can't pay our interest payments with the money coming in and "default" on other budget items?

It's been explained numerous times in the threads relating to the shutdown.

The treasury has no mechanism for prioritizing debt, because the constitution says that all debt has to be honored. Therefore, they have a FIFO system (First In, First Out). Even if they decided to do this, it would not be possible to develop a system and put it in place before the defaults began to occur.

I'm sure some other farker here can explain in more detail, but the short answer is: It's Impossible.


What is the legal definition of Debt? From what I've read it is money due to a creditor. People on welfare are not creditors. People collecting SS are not creditors. States expecting Federal money for a myriad of reasons are not creditors. The only creditors are the ones who loaned the government money. Intake is 141 Billion per month, Interest on the debt is 18 Billion per month. That is the debt the constitution requires paying on. That leaves 123 Billion per month for everything else.
 
2013-10-15 09:39:13 PM
People saying not raising the ceiling won't lead to default are scaring me.  Something has got to give.
Indeed there is an income that could cover the debt interest, but there still  isn't enough to cover that and social security and the military.  When prioritizing what money gets spent, who do you think will get priority?
The military, the grandma's, or the bankers?
 
2013-10-15 09:41:17 PM
Only one man can save us now, and he's in prison:

img.photobucket.com
 
2013-10-15 09:46:05 PM

Mentalpatient87: I'm beginning to think there will be no forced mating at all..


Yes. Farkers are safe for now..
 
2013-10-15 09:47:18 PM
There is a disturbing amount of porn in this thread. Secondly, should I stock up on food? I have already decided the first thing I'll give up is my house, not that that will get me far (if anywhere). Luckily we have a compound bow and live fairly out in the country and I'm willing to eat squirrels all winter.

Buy a good hand pump water filter?
 
2013-10-15 09:52:21 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: actually this:



Is what my Thursday will look like. Goin Fishin


Is that the Loch Ness monster?
 
2013-10-15 10:00:04 PM

spidermilk: There is a disturbing amount of porn in this thread.


"Disturbing amount" meaning "not enough"?
 
2013-10-15 10:08:34 PM
demaL-demaL-yeH: {long-winded, personally-insulting diatribe}

Whatever. At least I can actually make points, rather than having to resort to personal attacks. My point still stands. Shoot the messenger all you like.
 
2013-10-15 10:13:22 PM
nreusch.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-10-15 10:17:17 PM

Silly_Sot: Maybe this might teach those fat-cats and special interest peddlers in DC to STOP RUNNING UP DEBT IN THE FIRST PLACE.


You sound... optimistic.
 
2013-10-15 10:20:21 PM

HAMMERTOE: demaL-demaL-yeH: {long-winded, personally-insulting diatribe}

Whatever. At least I can actually make points, rather than having to resort to personal attacks. My point still stands. Shoot the messenger all you like.


1. This isn't a game, so there are no points to score.
2. Why are you so adamant about not paying your full dues for participation, life, and membership in a civilization?
(You know, the entire framework of infrastructure, culture, tradition, law, education, and government that makes it possible for you to have anything beyond what you can keep and hold on your person at all times - until somebody bigger, faster, or meaner takes it from you.)
3. Have you ever looked in a mirror and not liked what you see?
4. Have you ever looked at another human being and liked what you see? Or empathized? Or helped a total stranger with no expectation of reward?
5. Political sociopathy (aka "Screw you - I got mine!") is a parasitic mental illness that's been infecting the body politic since the Birchers took over the Republican Party in 1977.
 
2013-10-15 10:25:37 PM
And before you try to mis- represent it, the whole issue is that NOBODY is immune from math. Not the families who are watching their insurance premiums skyrocket, and not governments. This debt ceiling is being made out to be a very big deal. Funny how it was no big deal for families, who are already stretched about as far as they can be, to be suddenly hit with major increases in their healthcare coverage. This, in the name of "affordability". Once again, a money-shuffle of epic proportions, where the people who actually produce (yet get told, "You didn't make that,") are forced to shoulder even more weight of the chronically dependent. If it was really about "affordability", the answer would have been to bring costs down, not introduce yet another layer of bureaucracy into the mix.

You are either not intelligent enough to see this, or are personally invested in shirking your own costs onto the shoulders of others via selling your vote to the Democrats. While that may seem like an attack, it's really the only estimate I have left of your own reasoning. But the math is irrefutable, no matter which flavor of politics you subscribe to.
 
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