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(New York Magazine)   What the first day of the default might look like   (nymag.com) divider line 247
    More: Scary, Sen. Ted Cruz, Treasury Secretary Jack Lew, Bipartisan Policy Center, stock traders, equity trading, United States Department of the Treasury, Felix Salmon, software patch  
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21777 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Oct 2013 at 5:35 PM (38 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



247 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-10-15 04:39:16 PM
But what's the last day look like? Why can't you use your time machine to tell us how it ends? What a waste of a perfectly good time machine.
 
2013-10-15 04:47:18 PM

Bareefer Obonghit: But what's the last day look like? Why can't you use your time machine to tell us how it ends? What a waste of a perfectly good time machine.


You didn't read the article.
 
2013-10-15 04:50:26 PM

mediablitz: Bareefer Obonghit: But what's the last day look like? Why can't you use your time machine to tell us how it ends? What a waste of a perfectly good time machine.

You didn't read the article.


This is true. I wish there were someway I could go back and not write that...
 
2013-10-15 04:52:44 PM
img822.imageshack.us
 
2013-10-15 04:59:08 PM
Proof that every single one of you should have bought gold and were wrong for mocking Glenn Beck all those years.
 
2013-10-15 05:01:37 PM

Bareefer Obonghit: mediablitz: Bareefer Obonghit: But what's the last day look like? Why can't you use your time machine to tell us how it ends? What a waste of a perfectly good time machine.

You didn't read the article.

This is true. I wish there were someway I could go back and not write that...


maybe Obama can lend you his time machine.
 
2013-10-15 05:03:56 PM
Why not ask the people who are collecting the interest on our debt for extra time? Or nationalize the FED and free up a couple trillion in debt we owe them.
 
2013-10-15 05:10:16 PM
And by the way, the Fed's charter is about up. Time to start issueing debt free currency.

They have failed in their mission.

Or simply make them a non-profit.
 
2013-10-15 05:13:06 PM
If we do default I know I'll regret not having the magical power to turn smartphones into swords and shields in Washington DC and on Wall Street.
 
2013-10-15 05:17:57 PM
3:00 p.m. - Politico reports that Secretary Jack Lew has entered a closed-door meeting of House Republicans, and is imploring them to pass a bill extending the debt limit. "Stop the carnage," Lew is heard to say, by a reporter in the hallway outside.

Huh, the Repubs did this last week and Obama turned it down. Why does Obama want to kill the economy?

also, Jack Lew's a dick, but then that describes most of Obama's cabinet
 
2013-10-15 05:22:31 PM

ourbigdumbmouth: And by the way, the Fed's charter is about up.


Yeah.... except no.

The Federal Reserve Act originally had a 20 year charter, but was later amended to state that the Act will be in effect until explicity dissolved -- i.e., no expiration date.
 
2013-10-15 05:25:57 PM

Elegy: Proof that every single one of you should have bought gold and were wrong for mocking Glenn Beck all those years.


HA! While all you idiots have been busy buying gold, I've been quietly cornering the market on wheelbarrows, which you're gonna need to haul that 150lbs of gold down to the store to buy a pack of smokes.
 
2013-10-15 05:28:08 PM

IamKaiserSoze!!!: Why does Obama want to kill the economy?


The Republicans have repeatedly taken credit for shutting down the government and for forcing a debt limit crisis. And according to polls, 74% of Americans are pretty pissed about it.
 
2013-10-15 05:30:56 PM

shower_in_my_socks: IamKaiserSoze!!!: Why does Obama want to kill the economy?

The Republicans have repeatedly taken credit for shutting down the government and for forcing a debt limit crisis. And according to polls, 74% of Americans are pretty pissed about it.


Um, they offered an extension on the debt ceiling and Obama turned them down. That's pretty indisputable and easy to understand.

And I haven't read about anyone from either party taking credit for this mess
 
2013-10-15 05:34:01 PM

IamKaiserSoze!!!: shower_in_my_socks: IamKaiserSoze!!!: Why does Obama want to kill the economy?

The Republicans have repeatedly taken credit for shutting down the government and for forcing a debt limit crisis. And according to polls, 74% of Americans are pretty pissed about it.

Um, they offered an extension on the debt ceiling and Obama turned them down. That's pretty indisputable and easy to understand.And I haven't read about anyone from either party taking credit for this mess


Yet you clearly don't understand. Pretty damn funny!
 
2013-10-15 05:36:17 PM

IamKaiserSoze!!!: And I haven't read about anyone from either party taking credit for this mess


And you admit to being willfully ignorant! You are a hilarious gift that keeps on giving!

Maybe you'll understand funny pictures?

i.imgur.com
 
2013-10-15 05:39:23 PM
The senator insists that the risks of default are wildly overstated, as do some members of Boehner's caucus

"Give us what we want or we shoot the hostage! Though he'll probably be just fine if we do"
 
2013-10-15 05:39:56 PM

EVERYONE PANIC

 
2013-10-15 05:41:14 PM
This is what happens when you have people fit to barely run a 5 cent lemonade stand in charge of a country's economy.
 
2013-10-15 05:41:42 PM
I'm beginning to think there will be no forced mating at all..
 
2013-10-15 05:43:31 PM
The debt ceiling law will become unconstitutional the moment it prevents payments of debts.
 
2013-10-15 05:43:55 PM
10:01pm I will be drunk and asleep hoarding my valuable farks to give for things that matter... like pizza toppings.
 
2013-10-15 05:44:32 PM

fusillade762: The senator insists that the risks of default are wildly overstated, as do some members of Boehner's caucus

"Give us what we want or we shoot the hostage! Though he'll probably be just fine if we do"


That's because he'll have access to affordable healthcare if they're forced to shoot
 
2013-10-15 05:44:35 PM
img.fark.net
 
2013-10-15 05:45:12 PM
Here's hoping.   Sometimes you have to rip the bandaid off all at once, and in this case, flush it down the toilet and start over.
 
2013-10-15 05:45:14 PM
By Day 30;

0.tqn.com
 
2013-10-15 05:45:45 PM
"Until recently, asking what would happen if the U.S. defaulted on its debt was like asking what unicorns like to eat for breakfast"

Silly reporter, that's easy -- Oats with honey, a side of toast, and some juice.  Coffee if a certain purple unicorn is at the table.
 
2013-10-15 05:46:20 PM
actually this:

img541.imageshack.us

Is what my Thursday will look like. Goin Fishin
 
2013-10-15 05:46:22 PM

Elegy: Proof that every single one of you should have bought gold and were wrong for mocking Glenn Beck all those years.


All those years since 1990.
 
2013-10-15 05:46:26 PM
IamKaiserSoze!!!: shower_in_my_socks: IamKaiserSoze!!!: Why does Obama want to kill the economy?

The Republicans have repeatedly taken credit for shutting down the government and for forcing a debt limit crisis. And according to polls, 74% of Americans are pretty pissed about it.

Um, they offered an extension on the debt ceiling while making unreasonable, unrelated demands to delay/defund Obamacare, while offering no concessions in return,and Obama turned them down. That's pretty indisputable and easy to understand.


And no, 'Allowing the government, the national economy and the GLOBAL economy to continue functioning' is not a concession. That's a hostage.
 
2013-10-15 05:46:35 PM
Well, thanks, subby.  I won't be sleeping well tonight.
 
2013-10-15 05:47:07 PM

Mega Steve: [img.fark.net image 850x680]


now I'm sad.  I miss that game. :(

/THANKS OBAMA!
 
2013-10-15 05:47:23 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: actually this:

[img541.imageshack.us image 640x480]

Is what my Thursday will look like. Goin Fishin


Fishing sideways? Is your boat sinking?
 
2013-10-15 05:47:23 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: actually this:

[img541.imageshack.us image 640x480]

Is what my Thursday will look like. Goin Fishin


That's weird, it was upright in the previews.

I blame the Republicans
 
2013-10-15 05:48:44 PM
It's not "republicans" doing this.
It's religious fundamentalists who have infiltrated the congress via the GOP.
 
2013-10-15 05:49:04 PM
Oh. So Fallout. Cool, cool. Anyone got a spare pipboy I can use?
 
2013-10-15 05:49:11 PM
Hogwash as usual.

The world didn't end the last 17 times this happened, and it won't end now.
 
2013-10-15 05:49:25 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: actually this:

[img541.imageshack.us image 640x480]

Is what my Thursday will look like. Goin Fishin


Sooooooo from the look of that picture, you'll be drunk on the boat?
 
2013-10-15 05:49:48 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: It's not "republicans" doing this.
It's religious fundamentalists who have infiltrated the congress via the GOP.


So republicans amirite XD
 
2013-10-15 05:50:18 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: It's not "republicans" doing this.
It's religious fundamentalists who have infiltrated the congress via the GOP.


And a Speaker who values his job as Speaker more than he values the global economy.
 
2013-10-15 05:50:21 PM

olddinosaur: Hogwash as usual.

The world didn't end the last 17 times this happened, and it won't end now.


IIRC, we have never defaulted.
 
2013-10-15 05:50:54 PM

olddinosaur: Hogwash as usual.

The world didn't end the last 17 times this happened, and it won't end now.


Government runs everything now.  I haven't even left the basement in the last half-month since the sky was closed due to shutdown.
 
2013-10-15 05:51:10 PM

WTFDYW: olddinosaur: Hogwash as usual.

The world didn't end the last 17 times this happened, and it won't end now.

IIRC, we have never defaulted.


He thinks 'government shutdown' equals 'defaulting.'

A moron, in other words.
 
2013-10-15 05:51:43 PM
blogging.la
www.stanwinstonschool.com

/ the skeleton is Ted Cruz
 
2013-10-15 05:52:48 PM
How is the House, where all funding bills originate, deciding to not fund Obamacare different than the Executive deciding what parts of laws to enforce?  It's a challenge to the House's Constitutional responsibilities, same as I see it claimed a challenge to the President's responsibilities.
 
2013-10-15 05:54:41 PM

olddinosaur: Hogwash as usual.

The world didn't end the last 17 times this happened, and it won't end now.


Care to show the class when we defaulted 17 times?
 
2013-10-15 05:54:47 PM
Interesting how Fark so be so skeptical about everything but read this and believe every word of it.
 
2013-10-15 05:55:20 PM

Ambitwistor: [blogging.la image 550x234]
[www.stanwinstonschool.com image 575x323]

/ the skeleton is Ted Cruz


I would not wish that on anyone except rapist, baby beaters and kitten kickers but Ted Cruz needs kicked in the babby maker.

/how is babby maker kicker made?
 
2013-10-15 05:55:36 PM

foo monkey: How is the House, where all funding bills originate, deciding to not fund Obamacare different than the Executive deciding what parts of laws to enforce?  It's a challenge to the House's Constitutional responsibilities, same as I see it claimed a challenge to the President's responsibilities.


The ACA is funded. Notice how it didn't stop when the government shut down?
 
2013-10-15 05:56:26 PM
It's OK, we have 3D printers in space to rain manna down on us now.
Luddites.
 
2013-10-15 05:56:43 PM

mediablitz: olddinosaur: Hogwash as usual.

The world didn't end the last 17 times this happened, and it won't end now.

Care to show the class when we defaulted 17 times?


Jimmy Carter and furthermore
 
2013-10-15 05:57:52 PM
House Speaker John Boehner wakes up in his bed, after a short and sleepless night.

Stopped reading there.
 
2013-10-15 05:58:39 PM

Treygreen13: Interesting how Fark so be so skeptical about everything but read this and believe every word of it.


Can we get that in English?
 
2013-10-15 05:59:26 PM
Way too optimistic. The real trouble will start well before Halloween - we won't need to wait until "X Date", as credit agencies are already threatening to downgrade our credit rating even if we pass a temporary debt ceiling bill, because it's clear to them that we're at increased risk of default. Remember, we don't need to actually default to be at increased risk of default, as Fitch is already stating (and rightfully so.)

If we haven't cleared this up by EOD tomorrow, expect our credit rating downgrades to occur on October 17.

HotIgneous Intruder: It's not "republicans" doing this.
It's religious fundamentalists who have infiltrated the congress via the GOP.


Bullshiat. The "religious fundamentalists" didn't start the planning in January, nor are they the ones that changed the House rules to ensure this happened. The GOP, as a whole, participated in planning and implementing this disaster, as a deliberate act of political terrorism. The GOP doesn't get to point to a minority in their party and say, "...they're out of control! We didn't do it - it's their fault!" The career politicians in the GOP want to make this about an isolated, out-of-control group, but it's the GOP that invited those assholes in, fed & watered them, pointed them at the causes for which they could do the most damage, and basically used these assholes as attack dogs to forestall rational debate. The GOP worked with these assholes to construct the situation we're now in - the GOP doesn't get a pass by farting and pointing at the dog.
 
2013-10-15 05:59:55 PM

mediablitz: Treygreen13: Interesting how Fark so be so skeptical about everything but read this and believe every word of it.

Can we get that in English?


No. I prefer my comments to be nearly un-readable.
 
2013-10-15 06:00:10 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: "Until recently, asking what would happen if the U.S. defaulted on its debt was like asking what unicorns like to eat for breakfast"

Silly reporter, that's easy -- Oats with honey, a side of toast, and some juice.  Coffee if a certain purple unicorn is at the table.


Sweetie Belle : Cooking :: John Boehner : Governing
 
2013-10-15 06:00:19 PM
img.fark.net
 
2013-10-15 06:00:59 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: actually this:

[img541.imageshack.us image 640x480]

Is what my Thursday will look like. Goin Fishin


Fishing's not very sporting when the fish fall sideways out of the river.
 
2013-10-15 06:01:02 PM

olddinosaur: Hogwash as usual.

The world didn't end the last 17 times this happened, and it won't end now.


This has never happened before. Ever. Kind of the point, really. We're not talking "partial government shutdown" here, which has happened 17 times in the past, but "the entire country defaulting on its financial obligations," which has never happened in the history of this country.
 
2013-10-15 06:01:35 PM
Best case scenario:
www.jonathanrosenbaum.com

Worst case scenario:

image.gamespotcdn.net
 
2013-10-15 06:01:48 PM
"With slight tremors in his voice..."

Oh, the feels. Bring the dramas. Bring them!

The tremors are actually fears that a majority of Americans will realize the the government has it's probiscus more deeply embedded in the bloodstream of the American economy than it's worth. Suddenly, "You didn't build that," is going to be exposed for the huge lie that it really is. Sure, it will be uncomfortable, especially for those who have hitched their wagons to federal largesse. And also for those the government has chosen to regulate to the point of dependency on "permits" and "waivers", (artificial conditions enacted by the government in the effort to inexorably extend its reach and power.) The government doesn't create the economy, it rides it like a huge wave. It might, *might*, create conditions favorable to the economy, then leach off of it, but it certainly doesn't create it. It certainly can also create conditions toxic to it as well, as recent events have proven. People like you and I create the economy, by risking our savings, and investing our time, effort and money. *But*, only if the return is worth the risk of the investment, something that seems to always escape those who wish to leech, and those who wish to curry favor with the former.
 
2013-10-15 06:04:04 PM
Didn't read. Was it the capital wasteland from Fallout 3?
 
2013-10-15 06:05:25 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: actually this:

[img541.imageshack.us image 640x480]

Is what my Thursday will look like. Goin Fishin


Passed out drunk in the boat?

/lucky you.
 
2013-10-15 06:05:31 PM

gnosis301: Didn't read. Was it the capital wasteland from Fallout 3?


It was creative writing media fearmongering with a dash of ooga-booga and a side of pearl-clutching.
 
2013-10-15 06:05:49 PM

Nadie_AZ: Oh. So Fallout. Cool, cool. Anyone got a spare pipboy I can use?


Psst...wanna try some jet?
 
2013-10-15 06:06:06 PM

Nadie_AZ: Oh. So Fallout. Cool, cool. Anyone got a spare pipboy I can use?


Sure, but first I need you to take this coin to someone in Vegas for me
 
2013-10-15 06:06:57 PM
Its a bit unfashionable to have a moderate view of this stuff... but here goes.

Interest rates will go up significantly in the US, but in other countries, where only a small percentage of internationally secured loans depend on US bonds, they'll only climb a percentage point or so.  For the vast majority of people, this just means a small hike in their home loan payments.

Commodity markets will be largely unaffected.  Manufacturers will continue to acquire raw materials, and will continue to sell their goods.  Indeed any sector of the market that deals in tangibles will continue to function just fine.  The banks will hurt a bit, and one or two of them might go under.  A lot of people will lose some of their savings.  Anyone who makes their living by milking the markets (eg not actually making anything useful) will hurt a bit - though there will always be a few who will profit from the situation.

The people who will suffer the most will be the 401ks and those who are so close to the poverty line that they can't afford another $500 per month on their mortgage.  And almost all of these will be US citizens.  Most of these folks won't go under on day 1.  It'll take between a month and a year for their cash reserves to dry up... and that's only the small percentage who aren't able to adapt to the new environment.

So, the property market will dip (not plunge) on a wave of defaults, and it'll take 5-7 years for it to restabilise back to current levels.  Homelessness will rise a little.  Quality of living measures will drop off by a percentage point or two.

Its not exactly rioting in the streets now, is it?
 
2013-10-15 06:07:09 PM

Treygreen13: gnosis301: Didn't read. Was it the capital wasteland from Fallout 3?

It was creative writing media fearmongering with a dash of ooga-booga and a side of pearl-clutching.


Are you suggesting a default won't be an issue?
 
2013-10-15 06:07:16 PM

Treygreen13: Interesting how Fark so be so skeptical about everything but read this and believe every word of it.


Fark... Skeptical? This is the same Fark where we will 3D print cars and warp drives next week because spaaaaaaaace?
 
2013-10-15 06:08:31 PM
Feb 23, 2014

Left the city behind, still fighting there.  Must be Republican holdouts.

Met a fellow traveler on the road.  Wanted to trade gold coins for foodstuffs.  Moron

Running low on proteins, have to go hunting, old Wal-Mart nearby.  Might be something left.

Heading east.
 
2013-10-15 06:09:06 PM

Wolfling: Its a bit unfashionable to have a moderate view of this stuff... but here goes.


It's almost worth a one month default just to repost your comment a month from now, just to see how silly you sound.
 
2013-10-15 06:09:11 PM
I'm just glad that the party of fiscal responsibility has us on a path that has and will continue to cost America tens of billions of dollars.

What's the cost of an actual default? One additional point or more on interest payments plus credit downgrades?

That's gotta be a nice even $200b
 
2013-10-15 06:11:33 PM

bulldg4life: I'm just glad that the party of fiscal responsibility has us on a path that has and will continue to cost America tens of billions of dollars.

What's the cost of an actual default? One additional point or more on interest payments plus credit downgrades?

That's gotta be a nice even $200b


To hear Tea Partiers tell it, we are SAVING money with the government shutdown. Everything is peachy. So why no stop paying our debt too? We can double the savings!
 
2013-10-15 06:11:47 PM
The Republicans did the first smart thing either party has done in decades.  They offered to end the shutdown over the Obamacare fiasco by requiring everybody in Congress and the President on down to have to receive their health insurance through Obamacare.  Unfortunately, even if it passes Congressional leaders, most being a part of the 1 percent, will be able to afford Obamacare as well as a secondary insurance,

Obamacare is the president's way of saying:  "I don't f*cking care about you, I just want to f*ck you".
 
2013-10-15 06:11:52 PM

Wolfling: Its a bit unfashionable to have a moderate view of this stuff... but here goes.

Interest rates will go up significantly in the US, but in other countries, where only a small percentage of internationally secured loans depend on US bonds, they'll only climb a percentage point or so.  For the vast majority of people, this just means a small hike in their home loan payments.

Commodity markets will be largely unaffected.  Manufacturers will continue to acquire raw materials, and will continue to sell their goods.  Indeed any sector of the market that deals in tangibles will continue to function just fine.  The banks will hurt a bit, and one or two of them might go under.  A lot of people will lose some of their savings.  Anyone who makes their living by milking the markets (eg not actually making anything useful) will hurt a bit - though there will always be a few who will profit from the situation.

The people who will suffer the most will be the 401ks and those who are so close to the poverty line that they can't afford another $500 per month on their mortgage.  And almost all of these will be US citizens.  Most of these folks won't go under on day 1.  It'll take between a month and a year for their cash reserves to dry up... and that's only the small percentage who aren't able to adapt to the new environment.

So, the property market will dip (not plunge) on a wave of defaults, and it'll take 5-7 years for it to restabilise back to current levels.  Homelessness will rise a little.  Quality of living measures will drop off by a percentage point or two.

Its not exactly rioting in the streets now, is it?


No, it isn't rioting in the streets. But, considering this has been a clockwork political move for decades and adds nothing to our debt whatsoever, the consequences seem pretty goddamn stupid for a meaningless paper shuffle on already incurred debt.
 
2013-10-15 06:13:49 PM

GOP



www.clarkegop.com



Why let America shoot itself in the foot?


When you can help America shoot itself in the head.

 
2013-10-15 06:15:56 PM
Whatever. I say we get all the worlds navies and militaries to point their weapons at the US and demand a clean bill or else.
 
2013-10-15 06:20:21 PM
cloud1.baohe.org
 
2013-10-15 06:20:34 PM
It seems that everybody is missing the fact that all of these "continuing resolutions" and continuing debt ceiling crises are a direct result of this President and the democrats not signing off on a real budget since Obama took office.  That's right, this country has not had a budget in almost 6 years now.  The same budget that is mandated to be passed every farking year...   We don't need a farking CR, we don't need any farking debt cieling negotiations... Cut to the point and pass 1 damned budget in 2 farking terms in office!
 
2013-10-15 06:20:50 PM
FTA: "Until recently, asking what would happen if the U.S. defaulted on its debt was like asking what unicorns like to eat for breakfast."

Duh. Cracked wheat and honeydew melons. Way to go, "paper of record."
 
2013-10-15 06:20:51 PM
October 31, 7:00 PM:   Hello, is this Jack Lew? This is Expert Global Solutions. We are attempting to collect a debt - CLICK

October 31, 7:05 PM:  Hello, is this Jack Lew? This is Expert Global Solutions. We are attempting to - CLICK

October 31, 7:12 PM:  Hello, is this Jack Lew? This is Expert Global Solutions. We are - CLICK

October 31, 7:21 PM:  Hello, is this Jack Lew? This is Expert Global Solutions. - CLICK

October 31, 7:34 PM:  Hello, is this Jack Lew? This is Expert  - CLICK

October 31, 7:43 PM:  Hello, is this Jack Lew? - CLICK
 
2013-10-15 06:22:01 PM

Maul555: It seems that everybody is missing the fact that all of these "continuing resolutions" and continuing debt ceiling crises are a direct result of this President and the democrats not signing off on a real budget since Obama took office.  That's right, this country has not had a budget in almost 6 years now.  The same budget that is mandated to be passed every farking year...   We don't need a farking CR, we don't need any farking debt cieling negotiations... Cut to the point and pass 1 damned budget in 2 farking terms in office!


The president should pass and sign his own budget?

What if the democrats agreed to a budget for 2014 that was at sequester levels? Boy, it'd be a huge goddamn concession if Reid and Boehner agreed to that.
 
2013-10-15 06:24:43 PM
Even if you are stupid enough to believe the proposals from the house looking for concessions is not hostage taking, how does one look at the house rule change to bill proposals + the GOP blocking budget conference committees 20 times as Obama causing this situation?
 
2013-10-15 06:25:34 PM
baseballcrank.com
 
2013-10-15 06:27:04 PM
Small scale, localized riots are certainly possible, and I wouldn't be surprised if some politicians' families get seriously harmed in the medium term because of it.
 
2013-10-15 06:28:38 PM
Day 1

1 AM: Massive power outages are reported
3 AM:  dehydration and hunger start to set in.
5 AM Hoardes of people can be seen standing outside grocery stores.
6 AM Mcdonalds announces McRib is back.
7 AM Reports of people eating flesh
 
2013-10-15 06:28:59 PM

orclover: House Speaker John Boehner wakes up in his bed, after a short and sleepless night.

Stopped reading there.


Really?  That's where it starts getting good.

       ". . . For a few heart pounding moments, he hoped it had all been a dream--but the pain in his rectum, not to mention the greasy, slippery feeling of lubricant all over his thighs and the paper cuts on his ass told their own story.  Yes, there it was, still where it had been thrown the night before while in the grip of a sexual frenzy--the United States Constitution, covered in santorum, sticking to the wall.  Meth, he through wildly, meth always does this to me--
      Terrified, John turned to the motionless lump next to him in bed, praying to God that it wasn't Ted Cruz, let it be anyone other than Ted Cruz, let it be the mummified remains of Reagan dug up yet again in a drug-fueled panic, anyone but Ted Cruz--
      When John pulled the covers back and saw, he screamed and screamed and screamed--
 
2013-10-15 06:29:16 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: Treygreen13: Interesting how Fark so be so skeptical about everything but read this and believe every word of it.

Fark... Skeptical? This is the same Fark where we will 3D print cars and warp drives next week because spaaaaaaaace?


Hey, what are you doing over here?

There's a 3D printing/fusion reactor thread that needs your attention, stat.
 
2013-10-15 06:31:18 PM

toraque: orclover: House Speaker John Boehner wakes up in his bed, after a short and sleepless night.

Stopped reading there.

Really?  That's where it starts getting good.

       ". . . For a few heart pounding moments, he hoped it had all been a dream--but the pain in his rectum, not to mention the greasy, slippery feeling of lubricant all over his thighs and the paper cuts on his ass told their own story.  Yes, there it was, still where it had been thrown the night before while in the grip of a sexual frenzy--the United States Constitution, covered in santorum, sticking to the wall.  Meth, he through wildly, meth always does this to me--
      Terrified, John turned to the motionless lump next to him in bed, praying to God that it wasn't Ted Cruz, let it be anyone other than Ted Cruz, let it be the mummified remains of Reagan dug up yet again in a drug-fueled panic, anyone but Ted Cruz--
      When John pulled the covers back and saw, he screamed and screamed and screamed--


Go on...
 
2013-10-15 06:31:39 PM
davidtlamb.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-10-15 06:32:07 PM

Maul555: It seems that everybody is missing the fact that all of these "continuing resolutions" and continuing debt ceiling crises are a direct result of this President and the democrats not signing off on a real budget since Obama took office.  That's right, this country has not had a budget in almost 6 years now.  The same budget that is mandated to be passed every farking year...   We don't need a farking CR, we don't need any farking debt cieling negotiations... Cut to the point and pass 1 damned budget in 2 farking terms in office!


Yeah, how come the President hasn't signed off on the real budget that the Republican House hasn't passed? WTF Obama? And these democrats with their Senate budget already full of compromises, trying to conference about it, blah blah blah? Compromise is for weaklings! Does the GOP look like a bunch of weaklings to you? If they were weak would they be threatening suicide if they don't get everything they want? Just sign off on the budget without all these excuses about it not being on your desk. Enough is enough.
 
2013-10-15 06:33:36 PM
Why do the "lets treat the us budget like a family at the kitchen table" republicans seem to coincide nicely with the idiots that think default is ok?

What happens when you tell visa and Amex that you're going to stop paying your credit card bills cause you shouldn't have purchased all that cool stuff 6 months ago?
 
2013-10-15 06:34:24 PM
In other news, the govenment will still be taking in $3.1 trillion and net interest payments are about $220 billion.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_budget_pie_chart">http://www. usgovernmentspending.com/us_budget_pie_chart
 
2013-10-15 06:37:47 PM

cchris_39: In other news, the govenment will still be taking in $3.1 trillion and net interest payments are about $220 billion.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_budget_pie_chart">http://www. usgovernmentspending.com/us_budget_pie_chart


I'm amazed that you continue to be an idiot after all these years.
 
2013-10-15 06:39:10 PM

Maul555: It seems that everybody is missing the fact that all of these "continuing resolutions" and continuing debt ceiling crises are a direct result of this President and the democrats not signing off on a real budget since Obama took office.  That's right, this country has not had a budget in almost 6 years now.  The same budget that is mandated to be passed every farking year...   We don't need a farking CR, we don't need any farking debt cieling negotiations... Cut to the point and pass 1 damned budget in 2 farking terms in office!


You do know the Senate has passed a budget don't you?  But Republicans won't let the bill go to conference with the house?

1. 4/23 Senator Reid requested unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator Toomey blocked.
2. 5/6 Senator Reid requested unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator Cruz blocked.
3. 5/7 Senator Murray requested unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator McConnell blocked.
4. 5/8 Senator Warner asked unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator McConnell blocked.
5. 5/9 Senator Murray asked unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator McConnell blocked.
6. 5/14 Senator Warner asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator McConnell blocked.
7. 5/15 Senator Wyden asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator McConnell blocked.
8. 5/16 Senator Murray asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator Lee blocked.
9. 5/21 Senator Murray asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator Paul blocked.
10. 5/22 Senator Kaine asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator Rubio blocked.
11. 5/23 Senator McCaskill asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator Lee blocked.
12. 6/4 Senator Murray asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator Rubio blocked.
13. 6/12 Senator Kaine asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator Lee blocked.
14. 6/19 Senator Murray asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator Toomey blocked.
15. 6/26 Senator Murray requested unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator Cruz blocked.
16. 7/11 Senator Murray requested unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator Marco Rubio blocked.
17. 7/17 Senator Murray requested unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator Mike Lee blocked.
18. 8/1 Senator Durbin requested unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator Marco Rubio blocked.
19. 10/2 Senator Murray requested unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator Toomey blocked.
 
2013-10-15 06:40:12 PM

bulldg4life: Why do the "lets treat the us budget like a family at the kitchen table" republicans seem to coincide nicely with the idiots that think default is ok?

What happens when you tell visa and Amex that you're going to stop paying your credit card bills cause you shouldn't have purchased all that cool stuff 6 months ago?


Obviously you haven't defaulted on personal debt like "real mericans". You basically decide not to pay, call up your lawyer and they have you take a credit counseling class. Creditors can no longer call and debt is gone.

/ fark yeah we just need to Chapter 7 up on this biatch...
 
2013-10-15 06:41:02 PM

haywatchthis: [img.fark.net image 502x335]


Like those signs would still be hanging there. They make great blankets or doors for cardboard shelters.
 
2013-10-15 06:42:44 PM

Elegy: Proof that every single one of you should have bought gold and were wrong for mocking Glenn Beck all those years.


My brilliant older brother came to visit me last year. "Want to know how I paid for it? I cashed in one of the gold pieces that I have. I put all my retirement settlement into gold."

Wow. Either a stupendously awful or genius maneuver. Can't tell yet.
 
2013-10-15 06:44:30 PM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: Elegy: Proof that every single one of you should have bought gold and were wrong for mocking Glenn Beck all those years.

HA! While all you idiots have been busy buying gold, I've been quietly cornering the market on wheelbarrows, which you're gonna need to haul that 150lbs of gold down to the store to buy a pack of smokes.


You do know it's not actually gold bars? LOL
 
2013-10-15 06:45:48 PM
What it should look like.

www.aprayertoourfather.com
www.culturewars.com
 
2013-10-15 06:47:55 PM
so when nothing happens, like every other time, can we say that democrats are just playing politics and inventing crisis?  Or do we do this all over again next time until it ends up being nothing too?
 
2013-10-15 06:48:27 PM
I get that the Tea Party Republicans are the ones being pig headed.

But why, right before we default, doesn't President Obama be the adult in the room and negotiate with them?

I mean, if defaulting is really gonna fark our country up, somebody needs to do something to stop it. Right?
 
2013-10-15 06:49:28 PM

Cyrus the Mediocre: Feb 23, 2014

Left the city behind, still fighting there.  Must be Republican holdouts.

Met a fellow traveler on the road.  Wanted to trade gold coins for foodstuffs.  Moron

Running low on proteins, have to go hunting, old Wal-Mart nearby.  Might be something left.

Heading east.


Mar. 17, 2014

Continued east.

Found a mule.

Met a farmer named Brown.  He has a crow for a pet.
 
2013-10-15 06:50:16 PM
www.dana-mad.ru

Thanks, Tea-tards!
 
2013-10-15 06:51:41 PM

Elegy: There's a 3D printing/fusion reactor thread that needs your attention, stat.


Yeah, I know. I'm trying to post, but really, the story is so pathetic even I can't muster any interest.
 
2013-10-15 06:52:59 PM

Overfiend: I get that the Tea Party Republicans are the ones being pig headed.

But why, right before we default, doesn't President Obama be the adult in the room and negotiate with them?

I mean, if defaulting is really gonna fark our country up, somebody needs to do something to stop it. Right?


Because their only aim is to gut Obamacare, which ain't going to happen. You know, because it passed both houses of Congress and was upheld by the Supreme Court.
 
2013-10-15 06:53:58 PM
That isn't a realistic scenario. That there is rose-tinted optimism. The accidental default in 1979 had more severe consequences.
 
2013-10-15 06:55:08 PM

Elegy: Proof that every single one of you should have bought gold and were wrong for mocking Glenn Beck all those years.


It's quite possible to make money speculating in gold (it's just another commodity), AND mock Glenn Beck.
 
2013-10-15 06:58:08 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: actually this:

[img541.imageshack.us image 640x480]

Is what my Thursday will look like. Goin Fishin


You are Sidney Lopsides and I claim my five pounds.
 
2013-10-15 06:58:17 PM

cchris_39: In other news, the govenment will still be taking in $3.1 trillion and net interest payments are about $220 billion.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_budget_pie_chart">http://www. usgovernmentspending.com/us_budget_pie_chart


I hope you're trolling.  If not, I hope you're not in charge of anything important in the financial sector beyond the spare change in your Mom's couch...
 
2013-10-15 07:00:19 PM

Overfiend: I get that the Tea Party Republicans are the ones being pig headed.

But why, right before we default, doesn't President Obama be the adult in the room and negotiate with them?

I mean, if defaulting is really gonna fark our country up, somebody needs to do something to stop it. Right?


I'll Godwin this one :)

For the same reason Neville Chamberlain was wrong to appease Hitler...it just gives them an appetite for more.

You don't discipline screaming children who refuse to eat their vegetables by giving them the cookies they want...
 
2013-10-15 07:01:49 PM

bulldg4life: cchris_39: In other news, the govenment will still be taking in $3.1 trillion and net interest payments are about $220 billion.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_budget_pie_chart">http://www. usgovernmentspending.com/us_budget_pie_chart

I'm amazed that you continue to be an idiot after all these years.


We have tax receipts coming in to fund 83% of the govenment.  Net interest is only $20B a month.  Take this idiot's word for it - there will be no default, even if there is no deal by the end of the week.  I guarantee it.
 
2013-10-15 07:04:10 PM
Get ready. Withdraw cash, get non-perishable food ...

www.xconomy.com
www.mreinfo.com
 
2013-10-15 07:04:40 PM

mikewadestr: The Republicans did the first smart thing either party has done in decades.  They offered to end the shutdown over the Obamacare fiasco by requiring everybody in Congress and the President on down to have to receive their health insurance through Obamacare.  Unfortunately, even if it passes Congressional leaders, most being a part of the 1 percent, will be able to afford Obamacare as well as a secondary insurance,


It's actually the first thing Republicans have suggested in ages that I actually agree with.

However, they DIDN'T offer it in a vacuum...they still want most of their other stuff.  That ain't negotiating, that's reducing your ransom demands when the other side calls your bluff.

In other words, it's a sign of weakness.   Typical Republicans...taking a good idea, turning it into a liability.
 
2013-10-15 07:05:21 PM

thisisyourbrainonFark: Overfiend: I get that the Tea Party Republicans are the ones being pig headed.

But why, right before we default, doesn't President Obama be the adult in the room and negotiate with them?

I mean, if defaulting is really gonna fark our country up, somebody needs to do something to stop it. Right?

Because their only aim is to gut Obamacare, which ain't going to happen. You know, because it passed both houses of Congress and was upheld by the Supreme Court.


So what? If the Republicans are the bad guys, they'll lose the House next year, and the Democrats can restore funding.

Isn't that better than the apocalypse of default?
 
2013-10-15 07:05:35 PM
Get your serrated spoons ready!

i1.ytimg.com
 
2013-10-15 07:06:30 PM

Mega Steve: [img.fark.net image 850x680]


Ah CoH, how I miss thee...

/lvl 50 controller
 
2013-10-15 07:07:29 PM
Is politics leaking again?
 
2013-10-15 07:08:49 PM

Overfiend: I get that the Tea Party Republicans are the ones being pig headed.

But why, right before we default, doesn't President Obama be the adult in the room and negotiate with them?

I mean, if defaulting is really gonna fark our country up, somebody needs to do something to stop it. Right?


OK, let's say that Obama "negotiates" with them.  They get a bunch of stuff they want, and in exchange, Obama gets... the nation doesn't default.  In a few months, when we come up against the debt ceiling again, they *will* make further demands.  Obama will be the "adult" and negotiate, give the Tea Party a bunch of stuff they want, and exchange, get... the nation not defaulting.  And in a few months, when we come up against the debt ceiling again...

The choice is between allowing the Tea Party to dictate all the terms of governance or to draw a line.  The line has to be drawn somewhere.  It should be here.
 
2013-10-15 07:10:37 PM
This is just making me angry.

All countries before us have defaulted due to lack of funds and mismanagement of their countries. In our case, though... we are perfectly capable of paying our bills, yet we have a small fraction of one party in one portion of one house of one branch of government which is going to bring this down on our heads.

I'm just exhausted. My mom is on SSDI. She's got one leg and a bad back and hasn't been able to walk since I was 8. She relies on that money to survive. I called her last night to ask how things were going, and she went off on that "Bastard Obama". I just cannot comprehend this. Luckily, my older brother lives with her, so she won't be thrown out on the street, so I guess I have that going for me. There's a reason I moved 9 hours away from them...

I just can't fathom this. It really is reprehensible, yet we can do nothing about it.
 
2013-10-15 07:12:29 PM
i236.photobucket.com

What's say we pull out the Freedom guillotine and water the tree of liberty?
 
2013-10-15 07:12:53 PM

Ambitwistor: / the skeleton is Ted Cruz


What a comfort that would be. All of the gop gripping a fence in skeletal nuclear flame. We could use their glowing bones to keep us warm and heat our irradiated food.
 
2013-10-15 07:13:04 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: Get your serrated spoons ready!

[i1.ytimg.com image 480x360]


Hey!  I owe you a beer for the CO 11th recall.
 
2013-10-15 07:13:17 PM
so slightly less buys that Mitt Romeny's first day as President.
 
2013-10-15 07:14:34 PM

Larry Mahnken: Overfiend: I get that the Tea Party Republicans are the ones being pig headed.

But why, right before we default, doesn't President Obama be the adult in the room and negotiate with them?

I mean, if defaulting is really gonna fark our country up, somebody needs to do something to stop it. Right?

OK, let's say that Obama "negotiates" with them.  They get a bunch of stuff they want, and in exchange, Obama gets... the nation doesn't default.  In a few months, when we come up against the debt ceiling again, they *will* make further demands.  Obama will be the "adult" and negotiate, give the Tea Party a bunch of stuff they want, and exchange, get... the nation not defaulting.  And in a few months, when we come up against the debt ceiling again...

The choice is between allowing the Tea Party to dictate all the terms of governance or to draw a line.  The line has to be drawn somewhere.  It should be here.


So the principal of standing his ground is more important than the shiatstorm from the default?

I am trying to understand -if the default is one of the worst things that could happen, wouldn't it be worth avoiding at all costs?
 
2013-10-15 07:15:10 PM
Elephans and asses, screwing the masses....
 
2013-10-15 07:18:25 PM

Wolfling: Its a bit unfashionable to have a moderate view of this stuff... but here goes.

Interest rates will go up significantly in the US, but in other countries, where only a small percentage of internationally secured loans depend on US bonds, they'll only climb a percentage point or so.  For the vast majority of people, this just means a small hike in their home loan payments.

Commodity markets will be largely unaffected.  Manufacturers will continue to acquire raw materials, and will continue to sell their goods.  Indeed any sector of the market that deals in tangibles will continue to function just fine.  The banks will hurt a bit, and one or two of them might go under.  A lot of people will lose some of their savings.  Anyone who makes their living by milking the markets (eg not actually making anything useful) will hurt a bit - though there will always be a few who will profit from the situation.

The people who will suffer the most will be the 401ks and those who are so close to the poverty line that they can't afford another $500 per month on their mortgage.And almost all of these will be US citizens.  Most of these folks won't go under on day 1.  It'll take between a month and a year for their cash reserves to dry up... and that's only the small percentage who aren't able to adapt to the new environment.

So, the property market will dip (not plunge) on a wave of defaults, and it'll take 5-7 years for it to restabilise back to current levels.  Homelessness will rise a little.  Quality of living measures will drop off by a percentage point or two.

Its not exactly rioting in the streets now, is it?




I hate to be the one to tell you this, but you don't need to be anywhere near the poverty line for a $500/month expense to wipe you out quickly. At 300% of the poverty line you are making $35K/year - maybe taking home $2500/month. You mean to tell me that most people could absorb losing 20% of their income each month and only suffer a minor 'quality of living' issue?

The ripple effects would be enormous: Do we keep our home or stop paying Suzie's college tuition? Or do we make Suzie take out tons of loans and saddle her with debt that will crush her future? Well, we could stop buying clothes or anything other than food, because that won't impact the economy at all...
 
2013-10-15 07:19:30 PM

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: By Day 30;


Oh hell yes! I've be looking forward to some good old fashioned angry mob wielding pitchforks and torches rioting. I want to go protest, break some stuff, loot, maybe start a few fires.
 
2013-10-15 07:20:51 PM

Overfiend: I get that the Tea Party Republicans are the ones being pig headed.

But why, right before we default, doesn't President Obama be the adult in the room and negotiate with them?

I mean, if defaulting is really gonna fark our country up, somebody needs to do something to stop it. Right?


If it actually *works* to threaten to intentionally destroy the economy unless they are allowed to make an end run around the normal political process in *this* case--countering a law duly passed by Congress, signed by the President, and upheld by the Supreme Court (after which the President won re-election no less)--then they can rightly expect it to work in any case, the entire governmental process will come down to an annual round of Russian roulette, and the power of a faction of one party in one House will be exaggerated to the point of breaking the separation/balance of powers. Obama has remained firm while they send us a toe of the economy here and an ear there, because ultimately the hostage's only chance of release is to not be useful as a hostage.
 
2013-10-15 07:21:28 PM
Eh, I used the poverty line for a household of 1 so there will be no Suzie in college. But I stand by my logic.
 
2013-10-15 07:22:00 PM

Overfiend: Larry Mahnken: Overfiend: I get that the Tea Party Republicans are the ones being pig headed.

But why, right before we default, doesn't President Obama be the adult in the room and negotiate with them?

I mean, if defaulting is really gonna fark our country up, somebody needs to do something to stop it. Right?

OK, let's say that Obama "negotiates" with them.  They get a bunch of stuff they want, and in exchange, Obama gets... the nation doesn't default.  In a few months, when we come up against the debt ceiling again, they *will* make further demands.  Obama will be the "adult" and negotiate, give the Tea Party a bunch of stuff they want, and exchange, get... the nation not defaulting.  And in a few months, when we come up against the debt ceiling again...

The choice is between allowing the Tea Party to dictate all the terms of governance or to draw a line.  The line has to be drawn somewhere.  It should be here.

So the principal of standing his ground is more important than the shiatstorm from the default?

I am trying to understand -if the default is one of the worst things that could happen, wouldn't it be worth avoiding at all costs?


Because then democracy is literally dead.  The government is ruled not by the elected leaders, but by whoever is willing to blow the whole thing up in order to get their way.
 
2013-10-15 07:25:19 PM

Overfiend: So the principal of standing his ground is more important than the shiatstorm from the default?

I am trying to understand -if the default is one of the worst things that could happen, wouldn't it be worth avoiding at all costs?


No. The pricetag Republicans are demanding is the death of the Constitution. Their way gives the Speaker of the House the ability to dictate to the President.
 
2013-10-15 07:26:03 PM
So it'd probably be in America's best interest for Obama to not force a default.
 
2013-10-15 07:26:52 PM

Overfiend: Larry Mahnken: Overfiend: I get that the Tea Party Republicans are the ones being pig headed.

But why, right before we default, doesn't President Obama be the adult in the room and negotiate with them?

I mean, if defaulting is really gonna fark our country up, somebody needs to do something to stop it. Right?

OK, let's say that Obama "negotiates" with them.  They get a bunch of stuff they want, and in exchange, Obama gets... the nation doesn't default.  In a few months, when we come up against the debt ceiling again, they *will* make further demands.  Obama will be the "adult" and negotiate, give the Tea Party a bunch of stuff they want, and exchange, get... the nation not defaulting.  And in a few months, when we come up against the debt ceiling again...

The choice is between allowing the Tea Party to dictate all the terms of governance or to draw a line.  The line has to be drawn somewhere.  It should be here.

So the principal of standing his ground is more important than the shiatstorm from the default?

I am trying to understand -if the default is one of the worst things that could happen, wouldn't it be worth avoiding at all costs?


The GOP are counting on exactly that sort of thinking. This sort of political blackmail should not be tolerated. If you give them what they want they're just going to do it again. How many more times do we have to endure this? How long do we let them go on damaging our reputation and endangering our nation's economy and well-being? If they want to repeal ACA at this point they need to follow the legal rules and precedents that exist to handle that sort of thing. Their current tactic is NOT how it's done and it is unacceptable behavior. In no way should Obama allow them to set a precedent by permitting this sort of tactic to work.

If it comes down to the wire I'm all for Obama having them arrested for treason and cleaning house.
 
2013-10-15 07:27:35 PM

Overfiend: I am trying to understand -if the default is one of the worst things that could happen, wouldn't it be worth avoiding at all costs?


You see, it's only the worst possible outcome to those who are financially or idealistically tied to the concept of the federal government having access to ever-increasing sums of money to spend like drunken sailors.
 
2013-10-15 07:29:22 PM
Zomg the TPers are right!

static-l3.blogcritics.org
 
2013-10-15 07:32:13 PM

Cork on Fork: Wolfling: Its a bit unfashionable to have a moderate view of this stuff... but here goes.

Interest rates will go up significantly in the US, but in other countries, where only a small percentage of internationally secured loans depend on US bonds, they'll only climb a percentage point or so.  For the vast majority of people, this just means a small hike in their home loan payments.

Commodity markets will be largely unaffected.  Manufacturers will continue to acquire raw materials, and will continue to sell their goods.  Indeed any sector of the market that deals in tangibles will continue to function just fine.  The banks will hurt a bit, and one or two of them might go under.  A lot of people will lose some of their savings.  Anyone who makes their living by milking the markets (eg not actually making anything useful) will hurt a bit - though there will always be a few who will profit from the situation.

The people who will suffer the most will be the 401ks and those who are so close to the poverty line that they can't afford another $500 per month on their mortgage.And almost all of these will be US citizens.  Most of these folks won't go under on day 1.  It'll take between a month and a year for their cash reserves to dry up... and that's only the small percentage who aren't able to adapt to the new environment.

So, the property market will dip (not plunge) on a wave of defaults, and it'll take 5-7 years for it to restabilise back to current levels.  Homelessness will rise a little.  Quality of living measures will drop off by a percentage point or two.

Its not exactly rioting in the streets now, is it?

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but you don't need to be anywhere near the poverty line for a $500/month expense to wipe you out quickly. At 300% of the poverty line you are making $35K/year - maybe taking home $2500/month. You mean to tell me that most people could absorb losing 20% of their income each month and only suffer a minor 'quality of liv ...


Cork on Fork: I hate to be the one to tell you this, but you don't need to be anywhere near the poverty line for a $500/month expense to wipe you out quickly. At 300% of the poverty line you are making $35K/year - maybe taking home $2500/month. You mean to tell me that most people could absorb losing 20% of their income each month and only suffer a minor 'quality of living' issue?

The ripple effects would be enormous: Do we keep our home or stop paying Suzie's college tuition? Or do we make Suzie take out tons of loans and saddle her with debt that will crush her future? Well, we could stop buying clothes or anything other than food, because that won't impact the economy at all...


Paying for your kid's college tuition is a fool's errand, so making the choice to pay the mortgage is a no brainer. You sound like an over-entitled well-to-do that does not understand lower middle class problems.

/ paid for my own tuition, still have student debt
 
2013-10-15 07:33:36 PM
So how close to the brink do we let this nation get before we start shooting these assholes for treason? Red, blue, whatever. Line the whole bunch of assholes up for utterly failing in their duties to the American public. After the third or fourth congress we have to line up and shoot, these stupid farks might start taking their job a little more seriously.
 
2013-10-15 07:33:44 PM

HAMMERTOE: Overfiend: I am trying to understand -if the default is one of the worst things that could happen, wouldn't it be worth avoiding at all costs?

You see, it's only the worst possible outcome to those who are financially or idealistically tied to the concept of the federal government having access to ever-increasing sums of money to spend like drunken sailors.


Would you please come up with something that isn't regurgitated-from-somewhere-stupid (online/radio/Fox), facially incorrect, illogical, factually, intellectually and morally bankrupt tripe?
/Perhaps something that indicates    original   thought, or even an original and creative troll?
 
2013-10-15 07:34:55 PM

coylecn: Cyrus the Mediocre: Feb 23, 2014

Left the city behind, still fighting there.  Must be Republican holdouts.

Met a fellow traveler on the road.  Wanted to trade gold coins for foodstuffs.  Moron

Running low on proteins, have to go hunting, old Wal-Mart nearby.  Might be something left.

Heading east.

Mar. 17, 2014

Continued east.

Found a mule.

Met a farmer named Brown.  He has a crow for a pet.


Mar. 20, 2014.
Found a farm run by a talking pig named Napoleon. Gonna have some nice crispy bacon for breakfast.

Mar. 29, 2014.
A group of hover round riding teatards found me. Was walking trough a small town when they spotted me. After finishing all the processed foodstuffs in town, they had resorted to cannibalism within a matter of hours. They barreled down the street on their hoverrounds, decked out in football pads, punk hairdoos, and tricorn hats. I climbed up a fire escape and ran across the rooftops. One of them, clad in a hockey mask and a "Don't Tred on Me" t-shirt, attempted to peg me with an AR, but his diabetic shakes and kuru made his aim worthless and the only thing he managed to kill was a mailbox.
As I fled, they gained on me, their hoverrounds whirring closer and closer. And then their batteries died. Cursing, they stopped. A few jumped off and tried to chase me down, but only managed to stumble a few feet before collapsing of heart failure. I ran, not looking back.
 
2013-10-15 07:35:00 PM
In the end, it's plain and simple. This is all Obama's fault. If he had not rammed this train wreck called "The Affordable Health Care Act", down our throats, none of this would be happening. You see, in the end, it's not going to be affordable at all. And it's going to cost this country dearly.
 
2013-10-15 07:37:21 PM

LordJiro: IamKaiserSoze!!!: shower_in_my_socks: IamKaiserSoze!!!: Why does Obama want to kill the economy?

The Republicans have repeatedly taken credit for shutting down the government and for forcing a debt limit crisis. And according to polls, 74% of Americans are pretty pissed about it.

Um, they offered an extension on the debt ceiling while making unreasonable, unrelated demands to delay/defund Obamacare, while offering no concessions in return,and Obama turned them down. That's pretty indisputable and easy to understand.

And no, 'Allowing the government, the national economy and the GLOBAL economy to continue functioning' is not a concession. That's a hostage.


That is incorrect. There's no condition tied to the current shutdown.

It's nice you have strong feelings. Perhaps you ought to use them to be more accurate. Your next gambit in this engagement is to claim that offering to delay the debt ceiling by a month or two isn't worth it.

foo monkey: How is the House, where all funding bills originate, deciding to not fund Obamacare different than the Executive deciding what parts of laws to enforce? It's a challenge to the House's Constitutional responsibilities, same as I see it claimed a challenge to the President's responsibilities.


Well immigration laws aren't the settled laws of the land even though they are. Nor is Obamacare employer mandates settled law except when they are. Obama's reasoning is more screwball and harder to follow than his dumb Obamacare exchange website.
 
2013-10-15 07:37:39 PM
It'll be good. Hopefully the poor people will immigrate to other countries so they can get free healthcare, welfare, etc instead of sitting around and doing nothing. Okies realized that they needed to make a living so sitting around and doing nothing in the Plains wouldn't make their lives better.

Then we'll elect a President with Wall Street connections because someone with those connections can turn a country around. Just ask FDR.
 
2013-10-15 07:38:47 PM

Pick: In the end, it's plain and simple. This is all Obama's fault. If he had not rammed this train wreck called "The Affordable Health Care Act", down our throats, none of this would be happening. You see, in the end, it's not going to be affordable at all. And it's going to cost this country dearly.


No, this is happening because a number of Congresscritters are throwing a tantrum instead of following the constitutional process for repealing a law.

We DO have a process for that. What they're doing ain't it.
 
2013-10-15 07:39:01 PM

Pick: In the end, it's plain and simple. This is all Obama's fault. If he had not rammed this train wreck called "The Affordable Health Care Act", down our throats, none of this would be happening. You see, in the end, it's not going to be affordable at all. And it's going to cost this country dearly.


So, pick one - when I ignore you, should I label you as "Troll" or "Idiot"? I'm on the fence - I'm assuming you're a troll, as I'd normally assume that there's no one that stupid out there, but, lately, I'm finding that I really tend to overestimate the average intelligence of some folks, so I could be wrong.
 
2013-10-15 07:39:47 PM
So... the dems are screaming that failing to raise the debt limit automatically means we default on our loan payments.  This is false; there is enough money to pay our interest payments.

Meanwhile, the republicans are screaming that there will be no default because we can make our interest payments.  This is false; while we will not default on loan payments, we will default on other bills.

Why must both sides assume their constituents are complete idiots?
 
2013-10-15 07:41:49 PM
Can your food and back up your hard drives.
 
2013-10-15 07:43:49 PM
Maybe this might teach those fat-cats and special interest peddlers in DC to STOP RUNNING UP DEBT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
 
2013-10-15 07:44:25 PM
10:45 am - CNBC's Jim Cramer assures investors that a deal will get done.
12:05 pm - CNBC's Jim Cramer blasts a caller who suggests shorting the market.  "Everything is fine!"
3:00 pm - CNBC's Jim Cramer, undaunted by the 1000 point drop in the Dow, proclaims, "It's a buyer's market!" and slaps a giant red button that makes a fart noise.
4:15 PM - CNBC's Jim Cramer, responding to news of the complete collapse of the money market, states, "The smart money hasn't left yet!"
10:00 PM - The Daily Show's Jon Stewart anally rapes CNBC's Jim Cramer with a didgeridoo.
 
2013-10-15 07:45:12 PM

Richard C Stanford: coylecn: Cyrus the Mediocre: Feb 23, 2014

Left the city behind, still fighting there.  Must be Republican holdouts.

Met a fellow traveler on the road.  Wanted to trade gold coins for foodstuffs.  Moron

Running low on proteins, have to go hunting, old Wal-Mart nearby.  Might be something left.

Heading east.

Mar. 17, 2014

Continued east.

Found a mule.

Met a farmer named Brown.  He has a crow for a pet.

Mar. 20, 2014.
Found a farm run by a talking pig named Napoleon. Gonna have some nice crispy bacon for breakfast.

Mar. 29, 2014.
A group of hover round riding teatards found me. Was walking trough a small town when they spotted me. After finishing all the processed foodstuffs in town, they had resorted to cannibalism within a matter of hours. They barreled down the street on their hoverrounds, decked out in football pads, punk hairdoos, and tricorn hats. I climbed up a fire escape and ran across the rooftops. One of them, clad in a hockey mask and a "Don't Tred on Me" t-shirt, attempted to peg me with an AR, but his diabetic shakes and kuru made his aim worthless and the only thing he managed to kill was a mailbox.
As I fled, they gained on me, their hoverrounds whirring closer and closer. And then their batteries died. Cursing, they stopped. A few jumped off and tried to chase me down, but only managed to stumble a few feet before collapsing of heart failure. I ran, not looking back.


April 3, 2014 Made it to the outskirts of another town after hearing gunshots all day. One of the locals in a foxhole on a rise was calmly potting the hoverround cannibals with a well-cared-for Remington 700, while they fired wildly back with cut-down AR-15s, AK knockoffs, SKSs and 9mm pistols. He'd wait until they lined up to cross the creek bridge, then take two or three out. We shared an MRE and discussed the merits of 180gr boattail rounds.
 
2013-10-15 07:49:44 PM

Metalupis: Nadie_AZ: Oh. So Fallout. Cool, cool. Anyone got a spare pipboy I can use?

Sure, but first I need you to take this coin to someone in Vegas for me


Better than trying to take that coin from the person bringing it to Vegas.

/heard that guy's one tough dude
 
2013-10-15 07:52:01 PM
At 8:00 am as they are exiting their respective residences, both Ted Cruz and Steve King are shot by at least half a dozen snipers. Immediately, the press is bombarded with messages from several organizations taking credit for the shooting with the message that the next Congress Member who votes against extending the Debt Ceiling and continuing the Govt shutdown will meet the same fate within the day.

Later investigations reveal that the snipers were actually acting independently: one hired by the Chinese Govt, one by the Koch Bros, and one by the US Chamber of Commerce.

At 8:35 Congress adjourns having unanimously passed a Debt Ceiling raise and resolution reopening the Govt.*

*This is of course a fictional narrative, along the lines the author of this article engaged (pure speculation) and is not intended in any way to suggest that this is a legitimate means of solving political differences.  Just one of the billions of possible scenarios which could lead to a deal being worked out.
 
2013-10-15 07:52:57 PM
Let's face it, it will be almost as bad as the Y2K crisis.

Better start hoarding the canned beans and bullets.
 
2013-10-15 07:54:54 PM
I must remind myself, never get home from work after travel at 2am, and watch World War Z just to wind down. Lucid dreams and Fark politics threads DO NOT work well together.

/and do it all again tomorrow.
 
2013-10-15 07:56:10 PM

lawboy87: At 8:00 am as they are exiting their respective residences, both Ted Cruz and Steve King are shot by at least half a dozen snipers. Immediately, the press is bombarded with messages from several organizations taking credit for the shooting with the message that the next Congress Member who votes against extending the Debt Ceiling and continuing the Govt shutdown will meet the same fate within the day.

Later investigations reveal that the snipers were actually acting independently: one hired by the Chinese Govt, one by the Koch Bros, and one by the US Chamber of Commerce.

At 8:35 Congress adjourns having unanimously passed a Debt Ceiling raise and resolution reopening the Govt.*

*This is of course a fictional narrative, along the lines the author of this article engaged (pure speculation) and is not intended in any way to suggest that this is a legitimate means of solving political differences.  Just one of the billions of possible scenarios which could lead to a deal being worked out.


The Onion was there first, did it better. Sorry!

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-10-15 07:56:37 PM

StopLurkListen: Get ready. Withdraw cash, get non-perishable food ...

[www.xconomy.com image 300x200]
[www.mreinfo.com image 800x489]


I work for a dry bean company. We have canned and dry edible beans in the store room free for employees. I'll eat plenty good, and still pull in a salary, regardless of these chucklefarks.

/Not sure how long that will last if this really happens, but probably longer than most folk in the bigger cities.
 
2013-10-15 08:01:23 PM
In reality: First day of default - Get up, coffee, beer, shiat, shower, shave, go to work, abuse the 'man', come home, dinner, shiat shower & shave, beers. bedtime. Rinse/repeat.
 
2013-10-15 08:03:13 PM

MrSteve007: The Stealth Hippopotamus: actually this:

[img541.imageshack.us image 640x480]

Is what my Thursday will look like. Goin Fishin

Fishing sideways? Is your boat sinking?


The default will cause the pond to turn sideways. After 30 days it'll be upside down
 
2013-10-15 08:06:24 PM

HAMMERTOE: "With slight tremors in his voice..."

Oh, the feels. Bring the dramas. Bring them!

The tremors are actually fears that a majority of Americans will realize the the government has it's probiscus more deeply embedded in the bloodstream of the American economy than it's worth. Suddenly, "You didn't build that," is going to be exposed for the huge lie that it really is. Sure, it will be uncomfortable, especially for those who have hitched their wagons to federal largesse. And also for those the government has chosen to regulate to the point of dependency on "permits" and "waivers", (artificial conditions enacted by the government in the effort to inexorably extend its reach and power.) The government doesn't create the economy, it rides it like a huge wave. It might, *might*, create conditions favorable to the economy, then leach off of it, but it certainly doesn't create it. It certainly can also create conditions toxic to it as well, as recent events have proven. People like you and I create the economy, by risking our savings, and investing our time, effort and money. *But*, only if the return is worth the risk of the investment, something that seems to always escape those who wish to leech, and those who wish to curry favor with the former.


Just finish Atlas Shrugged?
 
2013-10-15 08:07:29 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: Overfiend: So the principal of standing his ground is more important than the shiatstorm from the default?

I am trying to understand -if the default is one of the worst things that could happen, wouldn't it be worth avoiding at all costs?

No. The pricetag Republicans are demanding is the death of the Constitution. Their way gives the Speaker of the House the ability to dictate to the President.


I don't believe it'll happen (I think they'll make a deal).

But we might find out...
 
2013-10-15 08:12:25 PM

StopLurkListen: lawboy87: At 8:00 am as they are exiting their respective residences, both Ted Cruz and Steve King are shot by at least half a dozen snipers. Immediately, the press is bombarded with messages from several organizations taking credit for the shooting with the message that the next Congress Member who votes against extending the Debt Ceiling and continuing the Govt shutdown will meet the same fate within the day.

Later investigations reveal that the snipers were actually acting independently: one hired by the Chinese Govt, one by the Koch Bros, and one by the US Chamber of Commerce.

At 8:35 Congress adjourns having unanimously passed a Debt Ceiling raise and resolution reopening the Govt.*

*This is of course a fictional narrative, along the lines the author of this article engaged (pure speculation) and is not intended in any way to suggest that this is a legitimate means of solving political differences.  Just one of the billions of possible scenarios which could lead to a deal being worked out.

The Onion was there first, did it better. Sorry!

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 365x317]


But he did make it on a list, so that's nice.
 
2013-10-15 08:15:31 PM
Can someone explain why we can't pay our interest payments with the money coming in and "default" on other budget items?
 
2013-10-15 08:17:37 PM
So much drivel from uninformed liberals around here.

http://www.hpe.com/opinion/x559273386/Thomas-Sowell-Who-shut-down-th e- government

"There is really nothing complicated about the facts. The Republican-controlled House of Representatives voted all the money required to keep all government activities going - except for Obamacare.
This is not a matter of opinion. You can check the Congressional Record.
As for the House of Representatives' right to grant or withhold money, that is not a matter of opinion either. You can check the Constitution of the United States. All spending bills must originate in the House of Representatives, which means that congressmen there have a right to decide whether or not they want to spend money on a particular government activity. "

"If Sen. Reid and President Obama refuse to accept the money required to run the government, because it leaves out the money they want to run Obamacare, that is their right. But that is also their responsibility. "
 
2013-10-15 08:17:41 PM

jeffmw: Can someone explain why we can't pay our interest payments with the money coming in and "default" on other budget items?


All debt obligations authorized by law, according to Amendment XIV.
 
2013-10-15 08:19:21 PM
people that control your life in some way want you to feel pain
 
2013-10-15 08:19:25 PM

FormlessOne: If we haven't cleared this up by EOD tomorrow, expect our credit rating downgrades to occur on October 17.


Actually, there have been hints already by several rating agencies that we're going to get a downgrade one way or the other now.

It will be a MUCH larger one if we actually default, but we've come so close to it by this point that even if this moment the debt ceiling was raised that the confidence in the US dollar has already been damaged.
 
2013-10-15 08:19:41 PM

rigmort: So much drivel from uninformed liberals around here.

http://www.hpe.com/opinion/x559273386/Thomas-Sowell-Who-shut-down-th e- government

"There is really nothing complicated about the facts. The Republican-controlled House of Representatives voted all the money required to keep all government activities going - except for Obamacare.
This is not a matter of opinion. You can check the Congressional Record.
As for the House of Representatives' right to grant or withhold money, that is not a matter of opinion either. You can check the Constitution of the United States. All spending bills must originate in the House of Representatives, which means that congressmen there have a right to decide whether or not they want to spend money on a particular government activity. "

"If Sen. Reid and President Obama refuse to accept the money required to run the government, because it leaves out the money they want to run Obamacare, that is their right. But that is also their responsibility. "


Bullsquat. It's a tax repeal - and other nonbudgetary items - bundled with either a budget resolution or a debt ceiling authorization.
 
2013-10-15 08:19:54 PM

jeffmw: Can someone explain why we can't pay our interest payments with the money coming in and "default" on other budget items?


It's been explained numerous times in the threads relating to the shutdown.

The treasury has no mechanism for prioritizing debt, because the constitution says that all debt has to be honored. Therefore, they have a FIFO system (First In, First Out). Even if they decided to do this, it would not be possible to develop a system and put it in place before the defaults began to occur.

I'm sure some other farker here can explain in more detail, but the short answer is: It's Impossible.
 
2013-10-15 08:21:44 PM

orclover: House Speaker John Boehner wakes up in his bed, after a short and sleepless night.

Stopped reading there.


The following sentence confirmed that it's all fantasy:

He spent most of the past 24 hours begging House Republican holdouts to come to their senses and extend the debt limit with a deal hammered out by Senators Harry Reid and Mitch McConnell hours earlier.
 
2013-10-15 08:22:14 PM
This has been an interesting discussion.

But what if the ACA is just a smoke screen? What if the 1% are tired of interest rates being so low? Wouldn't this be a way for them to raise the interest rates substantially, without getting blamed for it?

The transfer of funds from the middle class continues, unimpeded...
 
2013-10-15 08:25:12 PM
When did libs become the piss-in-your-pants scared of everything party?
 
2013-10-15 08:25:43 PM

mediablitz: Treygreen13: gnosis301: Didn't read. Was it the capital wasteland from Fallout 3?

It was creative writing media fearmongering with a dash of ooga-booga and a side of pearl-clutching.

Are you suggesting a default won't be an issue?


No, but I am suggesting there won't be officials crying "STOP THE CARNAGE" with quivering voices.
 
2013-10-15 08:31:13 PM
"In politics, nothing  happens by accident. If it  happens, you can bet it was planned that way."
                                                                                                            -  Franklin D. Roosevelt
 
2013-10-15 08:33:09 PM

SlothB77: When did libs become the piss-in-your-pants scared of everything party?


Never. But the Republicans have been pants-crapping cowards since Teddy Roosevelt left office.
 
2013-10-15 08:36:14 PM

Pick: In the end, it's plain and simple. This is all Obama's fault. If he had not rammed this train wreck called "The Affordable Health Care Act", down our throats, none of this would be happening. You see, in the end, it's not going to be affordable at all. And it's going to cost this country dearly.


scontent-b-mia.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2013-10-15 08:41:31 PM

SlothB77: When did libs become the piss-in-your-pants scared of everything party?


http://www.uschamber.com/issues/letters/2013/multi-industry-coalitio n- letter-regarding-continuing-resolution-and-debt-limit

Hey Sloth, do these groups strike you as being "piss-in-your-pants" scared of everything types?  Hell, do they come close to even being "libs"?

You mistake a rational and healthy fear of a bunch of numb-nut, know-nothings wielding power that is best left to those who are capable, shutting down the govt and teetering our economy into the abyss (and taking the rest of the world with us) with an irrational fear: like the fear of "brown" people and securing health care for 30 million fellow Americans at a price lower than a percentage of what we spend on the military annually.  I don't fear the gun that's safely stored away in my gun vault, but I do fear a 6 yr old wandering around with that same gun, loaded and playing police and bank robbers.  In this case, a group of idiots (most first-termers) playing the role of politicians without what appears to be even an inkling of an understanding of what their job truly is.
 
2013-10-15 08:44:32 PM
abortionsforall.files.wordpress.com
All Hail Speaker Humungus!
 
2013-10-15 09:04:11 PM
Well, I'll yet again retreat to my bunker, equipped with spam, refried beans, weed, booze, every episode of MST3K, the first 15 seasons of "The Simpsons", an Xbox, and lots of guns. Oh, and a crate full of duct tape. After the initial shiartstorm, regroup at the Washington monument and help get America 2.0 up and running. Stanford 2015, two deathcars in every garage and Nuka-cola in every fridge!
Oh, I advise to buy a crate full of duct tape. All those idiots buying gold will be begging to get them some of nature's miracle adhesive once the SHTF. How else are you going to attach things in a convenient manner? Vines? Where do you think you are, Gilligan's Island? With duct tape, you can fix holes in your clothes, make a sling for your Fat Man, or make some rope for a fire drill. Soon, I shall control all the duct tape. And then Richard C Stanford shall rule BarterTown.
 
2013-10-15 09:06:22 PM

Jacobin: Just finish Atlas Shrugged?


No.

Lest you assume that I'm ideologically tied to the GOP, I'll just take this single opportunity to say that it's a damn shame that I have to ally myself with a party of hypocritical, greedy, superstitious pricks because they're the ONLY party that believes that you should be entitled to a larger share of the fruit of your labors than the government, and by extension, the chronically parasitic.

A damn shame indeed.
 
2013-10-15 09:08:33 PM

Brockalisk: The debt ceiling law will become unconstitutional the moment it prevents payments of debts.


Bingo.

Unless Obama is a complete fool, there will be no default.  He'll order Treasury to ignore the unconstitutional debt ceiling law and keep making payments.  It'll eventually end up in the SCOTUS, and I can't imagine they'll ignore the 14th Amendment.

The House will vote to impeach him.  The Senate will shoot that down.  And this debt ceiling hostage situation will be put to bed forever.  Obama wins, GOP loses.
 
2013-10-15 09:15:22 PM

HAMMERTOE: Jacobin: Just finish Atlas Shrugged?

No.

Lest you assume that I'm ideologically tied to the GOP, I'll just take this single opportunity to say that it's a damn shame that I have to ally myself with a party of hypocritical, greedy, superstitious pricks because they're the ONLY party that believes that you should be entitled to a larger share of the fruit of your labors than the government, and by extension, the chronically parasitic.

A damn shame indeed.


As constipated as your "thought" processes so obviously are, I'm amazed you can grind out correctly-spelled words, let alone grammatical, but nonsensical and economically, ethically, morally, logically and empirically incorrect, sentences. (Are you   TypewriterMonkeyNumberTenBillionOne?)
 
2013-10-15 09:16:36 PM
I want to see what happens when the senior citizens don't get their social security checks.  How fast can the AARP organize bus convoys for the seniors to march on Washington with pitchforks and walkers?  Just put a country kitchen buffet next to congress and there's gonna be some smack down.

i1.ytimg.com
 
2013-10-15 09:24:08 PM
Anybody talking about prioritization should have to pick who gets stiffed.
 
2013-10-15 09:26:53 PM

Sheila_McSly: Anybody talking about prioritization should have to pick who gets stiffed.


Starting with his own constituents and any payments to corporations with offices in his congressional district.
 
2013-10-15 09:27:12 PM

SlothB77: When did libs become the piss-in-your-pants scared of everything party?


Really? Is this all you've got? You're calling us pussies because we libs feel a sense of fiscal responsibility for our debt holders - the American people.

Well alrighty then. Duly noted as "thinks fiscal responsibility is for wimps"
 
2013-10-15 09:32:38 PM
Have fun trying to explain to your elderly, rural Tea Party constituents why making sure some Chinese investment bankers deserve a big payday, but they won't be getting their Social Security checks or farm bills.
 
2013-10-15 09:33:19 PM
LOL, the US will not default any time soon. It's literally almost impossible. Seriously, there are way too many countries dependant on the US. I'm not saying it will never happen but it's not happening now.
 
2013-10-15 09:34:35 PM
OK that sentence has some problems, but you know what I mean.

/I know, they'll just blame Obama.
 
2013-10-15 09:38:39 PM

dchurch0: jeffmw: Can someone explain why we can't pay our interest payments with the money coming in and "default" on other budget items?

It's been explained numerous times in the threads relating to the shutdown.

The treasury has no mechanism for prioritizing debt, because the constitution says that all debt has to be honored. Therefore, they have a FIFO system (First In, First Out). Even if they decided to do this, it would not be possible to develop a system and put it in place before the defaults began to occur.

I'm sure some other farker here can explain in more detail, but the short answer is: It's Impossible.


What is the legal definition of Debt? From what I've read it is money due to a creditor. People on welfare are not creditors. People collecting SS are not creditors. States expecting Federal money for a myriad of reasons are not creditors. The only creditors are the ones who loaned the government money. Intake is 141 Billion per month, Interest on the debt is 18 Billion per month. That is the debt the constitution requires paying on. That leaves 123 Billion per month for everything else.
 
2013-10-15 09:39:13 PM
People saying not raising the ceiling won't lead to default are scaring me.  Something has got to give.
Indeed there is an income that could cover the debt interest, but there still  isn't enough to cover that and social security and the military.  When prioritizing what money gets spent, who do you think will get priority?
The military, the grandma's, or the bankers?
 
2013-10-15 09:41:17 PM
Only one man can save us now, and he's in prison:

img.photobucket.com
 
2013-10-15 09:46:05 PM

Mentalpatient87: I'm beginning to think there will be no forced mating at all..


Yes. Farkers are safe for now..
 
2013-10-15 09:47:18 PM
There is a disturbing amount of porn in this thread. Secondly, should I stock up on food? I have already decided the first thing I'll give up is my house, not that that will get me far (if anywhere). Luckily we have a compound bow and live fairly out in the country and I'm willing to eat squirrels all winter.

Buy a good hand pump water filter?
 
2013-10-15 09:52:21 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: actually this:



Is what my Thursday will look like. Goin Fishin


Is that the Loch Ness monster?
 
2013-10-15 10:00:04 PM

spidermilk: There is a disturbing amount of porn in this thread.


"Disturbing amount" meaning "not enough"?
 
2013-10-15 10:08:34 PM
demaL-demaL-yeH: {long-winded, personally-insulting diatribe}

Whatever. At least I can actually make points, rather than having to resort to personal attacks. My point still stands. Shoot the messenger all you like.
 
2013-10-15 10:13:22 PM
nreusch.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-10-15 10:17:17 PM

Silly_Sot: Maybe this might teach those fat-cats and special interest peddlers in DC to STOP RUNNING UP DEBT IN THE FIRST PLACE.


You sound... optimistic.
 
2013-10-15 10:20:21 PM

HAMMERTOE: demaL-demaL-yeH: {long-winded, personally-insulting diatribe}

Whatever. At least I can actually make points, rather than having to resort to personal attacks. My point still stands. Shoot the messenger all you like.


1. This isn't a game, so there are no points to score.
2. Why are you so adamant about not paying your full dues for participation, life, and membership in a civilization?
(You know, the entire framework of infrastructure, culture, tradition, law, education, and government that makes it possible for you to have anything beyond what you can keep and hold on your person at all times - until somebody bigger, faster, or meaner takes it from you.)
3. Have you ever looked in a mirror and not liked what you see?
4. Have you ever looked at another human being and liked what you see? Or empathized? Or helped a total stranger with no expectation of reward?
5. Political sociopathy (aka "Screw you - I got mine!") is a parasitic mental illness that's been infecting the body politic since the Birchers took over the Republican Party in 1977.
 
2013-10-15 10:25:37 PM
And before you try to mis- represent it, the whole issue is that NOBODY is immune from math. Not the families who are watching their insurance premiums skyrocket, and not governments. This debt ceiling is being made out to be a very big deal. Funny how it was no big deal for families, who are already stretched about as far as they can be, to be suddenly hit with major increases in their healthcare coverage. This, in the name of "affordability". Once again, a money-shuffle of epic proportions, where the people who actually produce (yet get told, "You didn't make that,") are forced to shoulder even more weight of the chronically dependent. If it was really about "affordability", the answer would have been to bring costs down, not introduce yet another layer of bureaucracy into the mix.

You are either not intelligent enough to see this, or are personally invested in shirking your own costs onto the shoulders of others via selling your vote to the Democrats. While that may seem like an attack, it's really the only estimate I have left of your own reasoning. But the math is irrefutable, no matter which flavor of politics you subscribe to.
 
2013-10-15 10:33:35 PM
1) I said "make" points, not "score" points.
2) I pay my full share. It's thoise who sell their votes to the democrats that tend to want to force me to pay their share too.
3) Yes, back when I was one of them. I went back to school, and struggled to better myself, while also raising children.
4) I have plenty of empathy and sympathy for my fellow humans. But, there is a limit. I can't carry the weight of the world. And it is unethical to force me to, to the point of working me into poverty. I give to charity. I also volunteer.
5) "Political Sociopathy"... Really? You're going to sit there, amongst a group of people who have sold their voting power to the political party who promises them the most easy profit  from the sweat of other peoples' brows and call me a "Political Sociopath"?.
 
2013-10-15 10:33:49 PM

HAMMERTOE: Jacobin: Just finish Atlas Shrugged?

No.

Lest you assume that I'm ideologically tied to the GOP, I'll just take this single opportunity to say that it's a damn shame that I have to ally myself with a party of hypocritical, greedy, superstitious pricks because they're the ONLY party that believes that you should be entitled to a larger share of the fruit of your labors than the government, and by extension, the chronically parasitic.

A damn shame indeed.


Im with you and I share your loathing for Republicans as well.
 
2013-10-15 10:40:41 PM
Once again, The Onion nails it.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/the-republican-party-cannot-stand-by - and-let-obama,34074/
 
2013-10-15 10:53:30 PM

HAMMERTOE: 1) I said "make" points, not "score" points.


Seemed to me you were trying to count coup. I'll leave that to the jury.


HAMMERTOE: 2) I pay my full share. It's thoise who sell their votes to the democrats that tend to want to force me to pay their share too.


Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
upload.wikimedia.org

HAMMERTOE: 3) Yes, back when I was one of them. I went back to school, and struggled to better myself, while also raising children.


Where have I heard that story before?

HAMMERTOE: 4) I have plenty of empathy and sympathy for my fellow humans. But, there is a limit. I can't carry the weight of the world. And it is unethical to force me to, to the point of working me into poverty. I give to charity. I also volunteer.


Do you see that bold part there? I have mentioned before that I worked on a dairy farm, so I know manure and straw when I encounter them. Untrue, self-serving selfish excuses are false, self-serving, selfish, and lame.

HAMMERTOE: 5) "Political Sociopathy"... Really? You're going to sit there, amongst a group of people who have sold their voting power to the political party who promises them the most easy profit  from the sweat of other peoples' brows and call me a "Political Sociopath"?.


Yup. Because your characterization is false, and it contrasts the truth of my words more starkly with the self-serving, hateful lies of yours.  There's a huge gulf between your view (Fark you - I got mine!) and my view (We have an obligation take care of our own.).
You've indicted and convicted yourself with your own words as a political sociopath and perjurer.
 
2013-10-15 10:57:37 PM

jeffmw: Can someone explain why we can't pay our interest payments with the money coming in and "default" on other budget items?


We can and will do exactly that if it comes to it. The fear mongering and hand wringing is part of the liberal temper tantrum.
 
2013-10-15 11:06:27 PM

cchris_39: jeffmw: Can someone explain why we can't pay our interest payments with the money coming in and "default" on other budget items?

We can and will do exactly that if it comes to it. The fear mongering and hand wringing is part of the liberal temper tantrum.


Yes those wacky liberals. Just making a mountain out a molehill. You totally nailed it.
 
2013-10-15 11:13:27 PM
I sold my mutual funds betting that the government will fark things up.

/it's not possible to go wrong betting against government
 
2013-10-15 11:21:31 PM

cchris_39: jeffmw: Can someone explain why we can't pay our interest payments with the money coming in and "default" on other budget items?

We can and will do exactly that if it comes to it. The fear mongering and hand wringing is part of the liberal temper tantrum.


Our soldiers don't need their paychecks. They volunteered!
 
2013-10-15 11:29:38 PM

mediablitz: olddinosaur: Hogwash as usual.

The world didn't end the last 17 times this happened, and it won't end now.

Care to show the class when we defaulted 17 times?


Here.

/I believe '17' was exaggerated for effect.
 
2013-10-15 11:44:47 PM
Seeing as how the government doesn't have any interest payments due until the end of the month, I'd say the article was full of shiat.
 
2013-10-15 11:47:44 PM

Cataholic: Seeing as how the government doesn't have any interest payments due until the end of the month, I'd say the article was full of shiat.


FTA --

In recent days, I've spoken to a number of financiers and policy experts on what could happen if we reach the "X Date" - the date on which the United States Treasury has burned through all of its cash, and is no longer able to cover its expenses. (The Bipartisan Policy Center expects this date to come between October 18 and November 1, but for simplicity's sake, let's assume it happens on an appropriately scary date - October 31, Halloween, and the day a huge interest payment on U.S. debt is due.)

Interesting theory there, Droz.
 
2013-10-16 12:24:24 AM

MarkEC: What is the legal definition of Debt? From what I've read it is money due to a creditor. People on welfare are not creditors. People collecting SS are not creditors. States expecting Federal money for a myriad of reasons are not creditors. The only creditors are the ones who loaned the government money. Intake is 141 Billion per month, Interest on the debt is 18 Billion per month. That is the debt the constitution requires paying on. That leaves 123 Billion per month for everything else.


Actually SS is debt.  SS tax receipts go in the trust fund, which then buys US government securities.  Those securities get redeemed later to make SS payments.  (This is how the system has intentionally worked from the beginning, by the way, not a recent change to "raid" the trust fund as various people believe.)

Also, a creditor is anyone you are obligated to pay money to for any reason.  You can owe somebody money without them having loaned you anything (e.g. you caused damage to someone and they went to court and got a judgment).  If you are statutorily entitled to money or other valuable consideration and don't receive it, you now have a cause of action against the debtor which can lead to a civil judgment.
 
2013-10-16 12:36:49 AM

Pick: In the end, it's plain and simple. This is all Obama's fault. If he had not rammed this train wreck called "The Affordable Health Care Act", down our throats, none of this would be happening. You see, in the end, it's not going to be affordable at all. And it's going to cost this country dearly.


I'm certain this is trolling bait, but I'll bite.
You and your buddy Ted Cruz are spouting exactly the same BS that Reagan did before Medicare.  After it came into effect, it was so popular that Reagan expanded it.  Ironically, 70% of Tea Party members don't want any cuts to Medicare.  But obviously the ACA is just so much worse and will ruin everything?  Even assuming it turned out poorly, there is no way it would do the kind of damage that defaulting on the debt will.


HAMMERTOE: they're the ONLY party that believes that you should be entitled to a larger share of the fruit of your labors than the government


That's pure bull.  When adjusted for inflation, tax rates now are lower than they've been for the last 80+ years.  NOBODY pays a majority of their income to the government, and no Democrat is advocating for a plan where they do.  Even people who are at a high enough income bracket that they pay close to .40 cents on the dollar almost always end up paying much less than that compared to their actual income.
 
2013-10-16 12:51:27 AM

lawboy87: In this case, a group of idiots (most first-termers) playing the role of politicians without what appears to be even an inkling of an understanding of what their job truly is.


Sadly, I think they know exactly what their job is.
Their job was to be exactly the sort of unreasonably and uncompromisingly idealistic and dim-witted kamikaze pilots that their equally-stupid Tea Party constituents elected them to be.  They were NOT elected to be competent lawmakers, they were NOT elected to reach across the isle and compromise, or even to uphold the checked-and-balanced governing guidelines set out by the Constitution.  They were elected from, and by, crowds of drooling morons specifically to completely f**k up the machinations of a government that they simultaneously hate and rely on (whether they know it or not) by stomping their feet about whatever dumba** issue that the collective radical right has stuck in their craw and then jamming wrenches in the works when they don't get their way.  By all accounts, that appears to be exactly what they're doing.
 
2013-10-16 12:58:12 AM
The Republicans changed the rules of the house on October 1 to keep the shutdown going.  Rather than any member being allowed to have a "privileged motion", only House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, R-Virginia or his designee is permitted to do so. (with video)

They never had any intention of resolving the issue.  They are going to default.  That was always the plan.
 
2013-10-16 01:01:52 AM
Thankfully I was raised and taught how to live off the land. The rest of you are doomed though. Turn the lights off on your way out!
 
2013-10-16 01:06:37 AM
If this happens, I am completely cool with the DC police rounding up GOP senators and congresscritters, hauling them to jail, trying them in court, and hanging each one of them for treason.
 
2013-10-16 01:15:19 AM

Terrible Old Man: Thankfully I was raised and taught how to live off the land. The rest of you are doomed though. Turn the lights off on your way out!


There was an interesting scene in the tv show Jericho about the aftermath of a nuclear attack.  Some of the characters go out to hunt but can't find any game because the refugees from the cities swept through and devoured everything.  But that's ok, I'm sure you have a million bullets to protect what's yours.
 
2013-10-16 01:18:29 AM

HAMMERTOE: Funny how it was no big deal for families, who are already stretched about as far as they can be...


Nine kids, a bass boat, and a third mortgage on the double-wide does tend to stretch a family.
 
2013-10-16 01:47:37 AM
There's a whole lot of focus on uncertainties in software. There's really not much excuse for that. Either you have tested it or you haven't. If you didn't bother to try 0 as a variable then go find a new job.

Crazy things happen. Check your inputs and filter for everything you can.
 
2013-10-16 01:50:52 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: It's not "republicans" doing this.
It's religious fundamentalists who have infiltrated the congress via the GOP.


Atheist, huh? Should someone here debate you?
 
2013-10-16 02:06:04 AM

haywatchthis:


What happened there? Earthquake?
 
2013-10-16 02:24:16 AM

Loadmaster: Let's face it, it will be almost as bad as the Y2K crisis.

Better start hoarding the canned beans and bullets.


Crap I got dried beans and canned bullets! I read it wrong! I don't have a pot or a can opener!
 
2013-10-16 02:29:06 AM

Silverstaff: FormlessOne: If we haven't cleared this up by EOD tomorrow, expect our credit rating downgrades to occur on October 17.

Actually, there have been hints already by several rating agencies that we're going to get a downgrade one way or the other now.

It will be a MUCH larger one if we actually default, but we've come so close to it by this point that even if this moment the debt ceiling was raised that the confidence in the US dollar has already been damaged.


Hell, yeah. I already traded all my American dollars for Chinese dollars! I know a guy high up who says on Oct 17, that's what we will all start using. You can trust the Chinamen!
 
2013-10-16 02:32:20 AM

Richard C Stanford: Well, I'll yet again retreat to my bunker, equipped with spam, refried beans, weed, booze, every episode of MST3K, the first 15 seasons of "The Simpsons", an Xbox, and lots of guns. Oh, and a crate full of duct tape. After the initial shiartstorm, regroup at the Washington monument and help get America 2.0 up and running. Stanford 2015, two deathcars in every garage and Nuka-cola in every fridge!
Oh, I advise to buy a crate full of duct tape. All those idiots buying gold will be begging to get them some of nature's miracle adhesive once the SHTF. How else are you going to attach things in a convenient manner? Vines? Where do you think you are, Gilligan's Island? With duct tape, you can fix holes in your clothes, make a sling for your Fat Man, or make some rope for a fire drill. Soon, I shall control all the duct tape. And then Richard C Stanford shall rule BarterTown.


You can actually make clothing out of only duct tape. I have a waterproof hoodie.
 
2013-10-16 04:01:47 AM
HAMMERTOE:
Lest you assume that I'm ideologically tied to the GOP, I'll just take this single opportunity to say that it's a damn shame that I have to ally myself with a party of hypocritical, greedy, superstitious pricks because they're the ONLY party that believes that you should be entitled to a larger share of the fruit of your labors than the government, and by extension, the chronically parasitic.

A damn shame indeed.


If that's your thought process, then I'd say that, yes, you are ideologically tied to the GOP.  Where else would you possibly fit in, classic makers v. takers stuff right there.  More of a Romney republican, but republican nonetheless.
 
2013-10-16 04:34:28 AM

haywatchthis:


Why doesn't that vulture just eat? That kid can't put up a fight. Stupid bird.
 
2013-10-16 06:25:30 AM

Kensey: MarkEC: What is the legal definition of Debt? From what I've read it is money due to a creditor. People on welfare are not creditors. People collecting SS are not creditors. States expecting Federal money for a myriad of reasons are not creditors. The only creditors are the ones who loaned the government money. Intake is 141 Billion per month, Interest on the debt is 18 Billion per month. That is the debt the constitution requires paying on. That leaves 123 Billion per month for everything else.

Actually SS is debt.  SS tax receipts go in the trust fund, which then buys US government securities.  Those securities get redeemed later to make SS payments.  (This is how the system has intentionally worked from the beginning, by the way, not a recent change to "raid" the trust fund as various people believe.)

Also, a creditor is anyone you are obligated to pay money to for any reason.  You can owe somebody money without them having loaned you anything (e.g. you caused damage to someone and they went to court and got a judgment).  If you are statutorily entitled to money or other valuable consideration and don't receive it, you now have a cause of action against the debtor which can lead to a civil judgment.


SS was found by the supreme court to be a tax just like the penalty in Obamacare was found to be a tax. Neither one would be constitutional if not.
 
2013-10-16 07:06:14 AM

FreudulentSplit: classic makers v. takers stuff right there


Interesting label. Now justify it.
 
2013-10-16 07:18:25 AM

Gawdzila: That's pure bull. When adjusted for inflation, tax rates now are lower than they've been for the last 80+ years.


lol- How do you "adjust" a percentage "for inflation"?
 
2013-10-16 07:24:55 AM

Gawdzila: That's pure bull. When adjusted for inflation, tax rates now are lower than they've been for the last 80+ years.


I think what you were trying to say was, "When adjusted for inflation, total taxes collected are now lower than they've been for 80+ years." Which would be totally correct. And also wonderful proof of how both parties use tax collection to buy votes.
 
2013-10-16 07:40:45 AM
Sometimes I think the Republican mission is to sink the world economy and keep it underwater forever.
 
2013-10-16 07:46:38 AM

Wolfling: Its a bit unfashionable to have a moderate view of this stuff... but here goes.

Interest rates will go up significantly in the US, but in other countries, where only a small percentage of internationally secured loans depend on US bonds, they'll only climb a percentage point or so.  For the vast majority of people, this just means a small hike in their home loan payments.

Commodity markets will be largely unaffected.  Manufacturers will continue to acquire raw materials, and will continue to sell their goods.  Indeed any sector of the market that deals in tangibles will continue to function just fine.  The banks will hurt a bit, and one or two of them might go under.  A lot of people will lose some of their savings.  Anyone who makes their living by milking the markets (eg not actually making anything useful) will hurt a bit - though there will always be a few who will profit from the situation.

The people who will suffer the most will be the 401ks and those who are so close to the poverty line that they can't afford another $500 per month on their mortgage.  And almost all of these will be US citizens.  Most of these folks won't go under on day 1.  It'll take between a month and a year for their cash reserves to dry up... and that's only the small percentage who aren't able to adapt to the new environment.

So, the property market will dip (not plunge) on a wave of defaults, and it'll take 5-7 years for it to restabilise back to current levels.  Homelessness will rise a little.  Quality of living measures will drop off by a percentage point or two.

Its not exactly rioting in the streets now, is it?



It may be. The thing is, this was the moderate view back in 2008. These kinds of sacrifices are unbearable at this point.

You really need to watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM
 
2013-10-16 07:55:09 AM

Hermione_Granger: These kinds of sacrifices are unbearable at this point.


Apparently not, for that is exactly what the ACA meant, just in the form of drastically increased insurance premiums.
 
2013-10-16 08:01:54 AM

rigmort: So much drivel from uninformed liberals around here.

http://www.hpe.com/opinion/x559273386/Thomas-Sowell-Who-shut-down-th e- government

"There is really nothing complicated about the facts. The Republican-controlled House of Representatives voted all the money required to keep all government activities going - except for Obamacare.
This is not a matter of opinion. You can check the Congressional Record.
As for the House of Representatives' right to grant or withhold money, that is not a matter of opinion either. You can check the Constitution of the United States. All spending bills must originate in the House of Representatives, which means that congressmen there have a right to decide whether or not they want to spend money on a particular government activity. "

"If Sen. Reid and President Obama refuse to accept the money required to run the government, because it leaves out the money they want to run Obamacare, that is their right. But that is also their responsibility. "


Sowell's a moron.  From your link:  "Since we cannot read minds, we cannot say who - if anybody - "wants to shut down the government."

We don't have to read minds...we just have to listen to folks like Michelle Bachman brag about it.

Try to find someone credible for a source next time.
 
2013-10-16 08:03:26 AM
Within hours:
2.bp.blogspot.com


Meanwhile at the reserve bank in DC
impruvism.com


Just raise the debt ceiling an we will let you walk away.
There has been enough pain
oneguyrambling.com
 
2013-10-16 08:09:07 AM

cchris_39: jeffmw: Can someone explain why we can't pay our interest payments with the money coming in and "default" on other budget items?

We can and will do exactly that if it comes to it. The fear mongering and hand wringing is part of the liberal temper tantrum.


Which won't placate all those foreigners we like to sell our debt to.
Those foreigners?  their place on the libtard/wingnut spectrum is irrelevant compared to their willingness to buy, which is what the Republicans are putting at risk.

Which is odd...you'd think nominally-Christian religious types would be able to understand things like "faith" and "abstract concepts" and "empathy."

Oh, well...none out of three is about par for the GOP these days.
 
2013-10-16 08:19:53 AM
b.vimeocdn.com

(From 'Knowing'. One of my top 10 faves, and kudos to anyone else who's seen it! But yeah, the default would be like the ending. Eh, not really....)
 
2013-10-16 08:23:39 AM
If the government lives within its means, its credit rating means zilch. Credit ratings are only important to entities that need to borrow money. If the government lives within its means, it doesn't need to borrow money. As for "empathy" and "faith", they can only sustain you for so long. Sooner or later, the realization comes upon you that all your charity is just being taken advantage of by people who have no intention of reciprocating, nor even any intention of shouldering their own weight.
 
2013-10-16 08:41:58 AM

MarkEC: dchurch0: jeffmw: Can someone explain why we can't pay our interest payments with the money coming in and "default" on other budget items?

It's been explained numerous times in the threads relating to the shutdown.

The treasury has no mechanism for prioritizing debt, because the constitution says that all debt has to be honored. Therefore, they have a FIFO system (First In, First Out). Even if they decided to do this, it would not be possible to develop a system and put it in place before the defaults began to occur.

I'm sure some other farker here can explain in more detail, but the short answer is: It's Impossible.

What is the legal definition of Debt? From what I've read it is money due to a creditor. People on welfare are not creditors. People collecting SS are not creditors. States expecting Federal money for a myriad of reasons are not creditors. The only creditors are the ones who loaned the government money. Intake is 141 Billion per month, Interest on the debt is 18 Billion per month. That is the debt the constitution requires paying on. That leaves 123 Billion per month for everything else.


OK. I mistyped that. The treasury pays all bills, both scheduled payments to those items like you mentioned, and payments on the debt. There is no mechanism to prioritize the debt payments above those other items.

My point stands, and you aren't getting it. We can't just choose to pay only the debt and dole out the leftovers to whichever agency/program we want to fund. It doesn't work that way.
 
2013-10-16 09:10:16 AM

dchurch0: We can't just choose to pay only the debt and dole out the leftovers to whichever agency/program we want to fund. It doesn't work that way.


Sure we can. Just like the Feds can afford officers to erect barricades and keep parks closed, but can't afford to keep parks open. I'd be willing to bet the NSA hasn't lost a single cent of budget.
 
2013-10-16 10:04:33 AM
The day before the first day of default the market is up 100 points and oil is down.

Maybe the sky will tomorrow.
 
2013-10-16 04:23:45 PM

quickdraw: SlothB77: When did libs become the piss-in-your-pants scared of everything party?

Really? Is this all you've got? You're calling us pussies because we libs feel a sense of fiscal responsibility for our debt holders - the American people.

Well alrighty then. Duly noted as "thinks fiscal responsibility is for wimps"


Nope.  Just like throwing your own arguments back at you.  Simple and effective.
 
2013-10-16 08:25:44 PM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: [i236.photobucket.com image 202x250]

What's say we pull out the Freedom guillotine and water the tree of liberty?


A few beheadings, even if questionably justifiable, would have a tremendous impact.
 
2013-10-17 02:12:41 AM

MarkEC: Kensey: MarkEC: What is the legal definition of Debt? From what I've read it is money due to a creditor. People on welfare are not creditors. People collecting SS are not creditors. States expecting Federal money for a myriad of reasons are not creditors. The only creditors are the ones who loaned the government money. Intake is 141 Billion per month, Interest on the debt is 18 Billion per month. That is the debt the constitution requires paying on. That leaves 123 Billion per month for everything else.

Actually SS is debt.  SS tax receipts go in the trust fund, which then buys US government securities.  Those securities get redeemed later to make SS payments.  (This is how the system has intentionally worked from the beginning, by the way, not a recent change to "raid" the trust fund as various people believe.)

Also, a creditor is anyone you are obligated to pay money to for any reason.  You can owe somebody money without them having loaned you anything (e.g. you caused damage to someone and they went to court and got a judgment).  If you are statutorily entitled to money or other valuable consideration and don't receive it, you now have a cause of action against the debtor which can lead to a civil judgment.

SS was found by the supreme court to be a tax just like the penalty in Obamacare was found to be a tax. Neither one would be constitutional if not.


To the taxpayer looking at the money taken for the trust fund, yeah, it's a tax.  To the government looking at the bonds the trust fund buys with that tax money, it's debt.  FICA tax revenues never go directly into the General Fund.
 
2013-10-17 04:27:05 AM

HAMMERTOE: Gawdzila: That's pure bull. When adjusted for inflation, tax rates now are lower than they've been for the last 80+ years.

lol- How do you "adjust" a percentage "for inflation"?


??? O_o
You don't adjust the percentage, you adjust the income bracket attached to it.
 
2013-10-17 04:34:14 AM

Gawdzila: HAMMERTOE: Gawdzila: That's pure bull. When adjusted for inflation, tax rates now are lower than they've been for the last 80+ years.

lol- How do you "adjust" a percentage "for inflation"?

??? O_o
You don't adjust the percentage, you adjust the income bracket attached to it.


Taxes as a percent of GDP would be my guess.
 
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