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(Cleveland Plain Dealer)   Cleveland Indians fans say the Chief Wahoo mascot isn't racist because he's got a big smile on his face and any attempt to suggest retiring it must be connected to Obamacare   (cleveland.com) divider line 64
    More: Strange, Chief Wahoo, Indians, obamacare, Indians Fans, Redskins  
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920 clicks; posted to Sports » on 15 Oct 2013 at 3:55 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



64 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-10-15 03:58:18 PM  
I'm from Cleveland and a Tribe fan ... that being said, I will not be upset to see Wahoo go ... hell, even the name if need be ... Not sure how happy I would be if I or my race were considered a mascot.
 
2013-10-15 03:59:45 PM  
It's fairly racist, but I do love that logo.

Next up, no more pugnacious Irishman for Notre Dame.
 
2013-10-15 04:02:55 PM  
How about this guy?

He's ok, right?
 
2013-10-15 04:03:45 PM  
Bah it was the Celtics logo and it didn't upload even though it said it was ok.
micahh2222.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-10-15 04:05:54 PM  
Wow, that photo. He's "Wild" for the playoffs. Get it? Because they're the Indians? Wild Indians? Oh hell let's just go all the way here: Wild Injuns!

He underlined Wild and everything to make sure you fully understood his racism.

/Hoping for the Kansas City Kings
 
2013-10-15 04:10:14 PM  

Treygreen13: Bah it was the Celtics logo and it didn't upload even though it said it was ok.
[micahh2222.files.wordpress.com image 319x400]


We don't use the "I" word on this website
 
2013-10-15 04:18:19 PM  
Many offered a litany of false equivalencies. What about the Fighting Irish? And redskin potatoes?
Redskins - when applied to people -- is a racial epithet. That's the history of the word. Period. No amount of sports pride can change that. And the term redskins can't be compared to Braves or Chiefs, which do not carry the same meaning.


Um, the Fighting Irish IS racist... Not "redskin potatoes", but yeah Fighting Irish is basically racist...
 
2013-10-15 04:19:08 PM  
Anyone that wasn't flung from the womb covered in placenta swinging their umbilical cord to heighten their cries of denunciation of the Redskins name or Chief Wahoo is merely a grandstanding hypocrite. At least according to some Farker Logic.
 
2013-10-15 04:27:04 PM  

Mikey1969: Many offered a litany of false equivalencies. What about the Fighting Irish? And redskin potatoes?
Redskins - when applied to people -- is a racial epithet. That's the history of the word. Period. No amount of sports pride can change that. And the term redskins can't be compared to Braves or Chiefs, which do not carry the same meaning.

Um, the Fighting Irish IS racist... Not "redskin potatoes", but yeah Fighting Irish is basically racist...



Irish is a race? I'd be interested to see the data points that differentiate an Irish man racially from someone from England, France, Germany or any other caucasian.
 
2013-10-15 04:32:08 PM  

Treygreen13: Bah it was the Celtics logo and it didn't upload even though it said it was ok.


The Boston Mics?
 
2013-10-15 04:38:57 PM  
Washington Early American Immigrants
 
2013-10-15 04:43:49 PM  
Considering that Cleveland is at the liberal end of the state, I doubt they'd link it to Obamacare. Private school vouchers, maybe?
 
2013-10-15 04:50:40 PM  

Mikey1969: Many offered a litany of false equivalencies. What about the Fighting Irish? And redskin potatoes?
Redskins - when applied to people -- is a racial epithet. That's the history of the word. Period. No amount of sports pride can change that. And the term redskins can't be compared to Braves or Chiefs, which do not carry the same meaning.

Um, the Fighting Irish IS racist... Not "redskin potatoes", but yeah Fighting Irish is basically racist...


Maybe it's splitting hairs, but I can see why, at the time the nickname caught on, someone would refer to the teams from a Catholic university in the Midwest as "the Fighting Irish".

They weren't making a comparison to honor the fighting spirit of the land of their forefathers or something. When the roster looks like "O'Shaughennesy, Houlihan, Hanrahan, O'Shea, O'Hanrahan, O'Houlihan, O'Hanrahoulihan...", you probably draw some conclusions.
 
2013-10-15 04:52:14 PM  

Gonz: Mikey1969: Many offered a litany of false equivalencies. What about the Fighting Irish? And redskin potatoes?
Redskins - when applied to people -- is a racial epithet. That's the history of the word. Period. No amount of sports pride can change that. And the term redskins can't be compared to Braves or Chiefs, which do not carry the same meaning.

Um, the Fighting Irish IS racist... Not "redskin potatoes", but yeah Fighting Irish is basically racist...

Maybe it's splitting hairs, but I can see why, at the time the nickname caught on, someone would refer to the teams from a Catholic university in the Midwest as "the Fighting Irish".

They weren't making a comparison to honor the fighting spirit of the land of their forefathers or something. When the roster looks like "O'Shaughennesy, Houlihan, Hanrahan, O'Shea, O'Hanrahan, O'Houlihan, O'Hanrahoulihan...", you probably draw some conclusions.


I'd heard that it was originally a derogatory term that was then embraced and adopted by the team. But that's just the story I heard.
 
2013-10-15 04:53:30 PM  

jayhawk88: Wow, that photo. He's "Wild" for the playoffs. Get it? Because they're the Indians? Wild Indians? Oh hell let's just go all the way here: Wild Injuns!

He underlined Wild and everything to make sure you fully understood his racism.

/Hoping for the Kansas City Kings


Don't think we haven't gone all the way at one point or another.

www.clevescene.com
 
2013-10-15 04:55:16 PM  
Seminoles = OK
Fighting Irish = OK
Fighting Sioux = Not OK

Got it.
 
2013-10-15 05:11:56 PM  
I'm an Illinois grad and was at school a few years ago when Chief Illiniwek was finally retired (forced out?) by people who were offended, or more accurately offended on behalf of others. I grew up with the mascot so I obviously had some affection for the character and some gear with the Chief on it, but I didn't cry about it when they retired him. If it means one less thing for people to throw stones about, so be it.

Some people definitely cried on tv during the Chief's "Last Dance" at his last basketball halftime appearance. At least they kept the name Fighting Illini (for now).

But I now have less sympathy for others like Redskins and Chief Wahoo because few had sympathy for Illiniwek. Bring the others down with us!
 
2013-10-15 05:18:53 PM  

Gonz: Mikey1969: Many offered a litany of false equivalencies. What about the Fighting Irish? And redskin potatoes?
Redskins - when applied to people -- is a racial epithet. That's the history of the word. Period. No amount of sports pride can change that. And the term redskins can't be compared to Braves or Chiefs, which do not carry the same meaning.

Um, the Fighting Irish IS racist... Not "redskin potatoes", but yeah Fighting Irish is basically racist...

Maybe it's splitting hairs, but I can see why, at the time the nickname caught on, someone would refer to the teams from a Catholic university in the Midwest as "the Fighting Irish".

They weren't making a comparison to honor the fighting spirit of the land of their forefathers or something. When the roster looks like "O'Shaughennesy, Houlihan, Hanrahan, O'Shea, O'Hanrahan, O'Houlihan, O'Hanrahoulihan...", you probably draw some conclusions.


Irish are "known" for fighting, just like they're "known" for drinking.

Just one more stereotype, but it's OK because it's white Europeans we're talking about, of course.
 
2013-10-15 05:23:57 PM  
This conversation that has started with the redskins and Indians was probably started by a marketing or merchandise company looking to profit from the new branding
 
2013-10-15 05:25:57 PM  

rudemix: Mikey1969: Many offered a litany of false equivalencies. What about the Fighting Irish? And redskin potatoes?
Redskins - when applied to people -- is a racial epithet. That's the history of the word. Period. No amount of sports pride can change that. And the term redskins can't be compared to Braves or Chiefs, which do not carry the same meaning.

Um, the Fighting Irish IS racist... Not "redskin potatoes", but yeah Fighting Irish is basically racist...


Irish is a race? I'd be interested to see the data points that differentiate an Irish man racially from someone from England, France, Germany or any other caucasian.


Huh, it's almost like the whole concept of race is ill-defined and not reflective of any actual reality.  It's different from culture, but not reflective of actual biology.  It's almost like, we made it up....

/race isn't a thing, we've reified it
//and people say English degrees aren't good for anything
 
2013-10-15 05:26:26 PM  

rudemix: flung from the womb


i'm going to find a way to use this in conversation.  don't know how, but i have to.
 
2013-10-15 05:29:47 PM  
Did a search to see if there are any American Indian baseball players currently active.

Found:
Kyle Lohse - Nomlaki Wintun
Jacoby Ellsbury - Navajo
Joba Chamberlain - Winnebago

Wonder their opinion, if they even have one.

See the full list here:
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/legendary/american_indian_baseball_p la yers.shtml
 
2013-10-15 05:38:16 PM  
I really do not want or need politics in sports. This should be moved to the politics tab.
 
2013-10-15 05:44:26 PM  

cheezitmojo: Seminoles = OK
Fighting Irish = OK
Fighting Sioux = Not OK

Got it.


The Florida Seminoles are officially sanctioned by the Seminole Tribe of Florida. UND doesn't have the support of the Sioux tribes there. Also, they put it to a referendum there, and people voted to change it anyway.
 
2013-10-15 05:47:53 PM  
Fighting Irish, yeah, that's kind of offensive. The Vikings logo/mascot is also plays on cultural stereotypes, because Vikings didn't wear those horned helmet things. Meh.
 
2013-10-15 06:02:34 PM  
Hell, Cleveland should double down on it. Open up Chief Wahoo's Casino in or next to the stadium and give fans a free beer voucher if they show up dressed in redface.
 
2013-10-15 06:03:12 PM  

bglove25: rudemix: Mikey1969: Many offered a litany of false equivalencies. What about the Fighting Irish? And redskin potatoes?
Redskins - when applied to people -- is a racial epithet. That's the history of the word. Period. No amount of sports pride can change that. And the term redskins can't be compared to Braves or Chiefs, which do not carry the same meaning.

Um, the Fighting Irish IS racist... Not "redskin potatoes", but yeah Fighting Irish is basically racist...


Irish is a race? I'd be interested to see the data points that differentiate an Irish man racially from someone from England, France, Germany or any other caucasian.

Huh, it's almost like the whole concept of race is ill-defined and not reflective of any actual reality.  It's different from culture, but not reflective of actual biology.  It's almost like, we made it up....

/race isn't a thing, we've reified it
//and people say English degrees aren't good for anything


Within the past year I decided to look at where the term caucasian came from. Why it applied to crackers like me and who coined it and for what reason. Was there some compelling anthropological data found in the Caucuses that was telling of white Europen genetics or something? No, some crackpot found what he considered the ideal sized skull for white Europeans (based on his beliefs) in the Caucuses. The whole thought of race is a muddy pool that's been opaqued for many foolish reasons. But to compare the historic 'plight' of the Irish 'race' in the US compared to the plight of Natives in the US to make a point about a sports name is foolish and/or disengenious.
 
2013-10-15 06:09:53 PM  

bglove25: rudemix: Mikey1969: Many offered a litany of false equivalencies. What about the Fighting Irish? And redskin potatoes?
Redskins - when applied to people -- is a racial epithet. That's the history of the word. Period. No amount of sports pride can change that. And the term redskins can't be compared to Braves or Chiefs, which do not carry the same meaning.

Um, the Fighting Irish IS racist... Not "redskin potatoes", but yeah Fighting Irish is basically racist...


Irish is a race? I'd be interested to see the data points that differentiate an Irish man racially from someone from England, France, Germany or any other caucasian.

Huh, it's almost like the whole concept of race is ill-defined and not reflective of any actual reality.  It's different from culture, but not reflective of actual biology.  It's almost like, we made it up....

/race isn't a thing, we've reified it
//and people say English degrees aren't good for anything


This.

Race is a social construct and is one of the reasons why Affirmative Action based on race needs to be abolished.
 
2013-10-15 06:16:34 PM  

DoomPaul: bglove25: rudemix: Mikey1969: Many offered a litany of false equivalencies. What about the Fighting Irish? And redskin potatoes?
Redskins - when applied to people -- is a racial epithet. That's the history of the word. Period. No amount of sports pride can change that. And the term redskins can't be compared to Braves or Chiefs, which do not carry the same meaning.

Um, the Fighting Irish IS racist... Not "redskin potatoes", but yeah Fighting Irish is basically racist...


Irish is a race? I'd be interested to see the data points that differentiate an Irish man racially from someone from England, France, Germany or any other caucasian.

Huh, it's almost like the whole concept of race is ill-defined and not reflective of any actual reality.  It's different from culture, but not reflective of actual biology.  It's almost like, we made it up....

/race isn't a thing, we've reified it
//and people say English degrees aren't good for anything

This.

Race is a social construct and is one of the reasons why Affirmative Action based on race needs to be abolished.


You sound white.
 
2013-10-15 06:21:36 PM  
i.imgur.com

Wahoo's been gone for 70 years.  RIP Wahoo.
 
2013-10-15 06:28:02 PM  

Dafatone: DoomPaul: bglove25: rudemix: Mikey1969: Many offered a litany of false equivalencies. What about the Fighting Irish? And redskin potatoes?
Redskins - when applied to people -- is a racial epithet. That's the history of the word. Period. No amount of sports pride can change that. And the term redskins can't be compared to Braves or Chiefs, which do not carry the same meaning.

Um, the Fighting Irish IS racist... Not "redskin potatoes", but yeah Fighting Irish is basically racist...


Irish is a race? I'd be interested to see the data points that differentiate an Irish man racially from someone from England, France, Germany or any other caucasian.

Huh, it's almost like the whole concept of race is ill-defined and not reflective of any actual reality.  It's different from culture, but not reflective of actual biology.  It's almost like, we made it up....

/race isn't a thing, we've reified it
//and people say English degrees aren't good for anything

This.

Race is a social construct and is one of the reasons why Affirmative Action based on race needs to be abolished.

You sound white.


Mexican-American from Amarillo if you must know.
 
2013-10-15 07:30:46 PM  
Consiglieri Snookie, the new mascot for my beer league baseball team, the Fighting Wops

i2.cdnds.net

She's smiling, so you know we are honoring Italian-Americans
 
2013-10-15 07:36:50 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: It's fairly racist, but I do love that logo.

Next up, no more pugnacious Irishman for Notre Dame.


Yeah I remember the riots when ND played in Dublin last year. Oh wait...
 
2013-10-15 07:51:00 PM  
I'm a tribe fan, and I eagerly await the day that Wahoo dies. It will happen eventually, it's just a matter of time. Besides, we have a classier logo already in place:

content.sportslogos.net

The only real question is whether they also change the name "Indians". Which I don't think would even be a question if not for the Chief. There's no significant pressure for the Chiefs, Braves or any other "Indians" team to change the name. The big campaigns right now are against two highly visible, highly incorrect figures - the name "Redskins" and the wahoo logo. But over enough time, that fight will likely migrate to the Indians name itself. In which case, the Indians will probably either become the Blues or the Spiders.
 
2013-10-15 07:51:45 PM  
Hey now... as an Indians fan, let's be reasonable here.  We can come up with a compromise, right?

content.sportslogos.net

How about if we give him the crown back?  Can we keep him if we give him the crown back?

No?

media.cleveland.com

What if we make his skin less red?  That's less rac-

No, you're right, it's more racist.

How about thi-

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com

Yeah... That one's not gonna fly at all.

Well poop....

Can we just steal the Blackhawks logo then?  No one's biatching about their Indian caricature.
 
2013-10-15 07:52:20 PM  

Gonz: Mikey1969: Many offered a litany of false equivalencies. What about the Fighting Irish? And redskin potatoes?
Redskins - when applied to people -- is a racial epithet. That's the history of the word. Period. No amount of sports pride can change that. And the term redskins can't be compared to Braves or Chiefs, which do not carry the same meaning.

Um, the Fighting Irish IS racist... Not "redskin potatoes", but yeah Fighting Irish is basically racist...

Maybe it's splitting hairs, but I can see why, at the time the nickname caught on, someone would refer to the teams from a Catholic university in the Midwest as "the Fighting Irish".

They weren't making a comparison to honor the fighting spirit of the land of their forefathers or something. When the roster looks like "O'Shaughennesy, Houlihan, Hanrahan, O'Shea, O'Hanrahan, O'Houlihan, O'Hanrahoulihan...", you probably draw some conclusions.


Don't forget their star lineman, Patty O'Furniture.
 
2013-10-15 07:55:17 PM  

The_Y2P_Problem: Can we just steal the Blackhawks logo then?  No one's biatching about their Indian caricature.


Everyone falls all over themselves to talk about how amazing and classic and great that logo is.  I don't understand it.  Forget about the politics; I just don't see why it's special.
 
2013-10-15 08:10:13 PM  
Chief Wahoo should be Ohio's governor.
 
2013-10-15 08:17:21 PM  

Gonz: When the roster looks like "O'Shaughennesy, Houlihan, Hanrahan, O'Shea, O'Hanrahan, O'Houlihan, O'Hanrahoulihan...", you probably draw some conclusions.


"Hanrahan! Suzanne sucks pussy!"

"She's a lesbian! A lesbian!"
 
2013-10-15 08:19:00 PM  
stanfordreview.org

/ Hot like a Stanford Indian
 
2013-10-15 08:26:16 PM  

someonelse: Fighting Irish, yeah, that's kind of offensive.



Are you Irish?
 
2013-10-15 08:26:37 PM  

Mikey1969: Many offered a litany of false equivalencies. What about the Fighting Irish? And redskin potatoes?
Redskins - when applied to people -- is a racial epithet. That's the history of the word. Period. No amount of sports pride can change that. And the term redskins can't be compared to Braves or Chiefs, which do not carry the same meaning.

Um, the Fighting Irish IS racist... Not "redskin potatoes", but yeah Fighting Irish is basically racist...


Except that their mascot is a leprechaun, not a red-cheeked, potato-eating alcoholic. But other than that and the franchise's embarrassing history on racial issues, Notre Dame and the Redskins are the same.
 
2013-10-15 08:36:05 PM  
If Chief Wahoo's red skin, toothy smile, and triangular eyes are racist, then so must one conclude that Homer Simpson is racist for having yellow skin, buggy eyes, and a massive overbite.

cdn.zmescience.com
 
2013-10-15 08:45:35 PM  
www.catch-arena.com
 
2013-10-15 09:15:28 PM  

The_Y2P_Problem: Hey now... as an Indians fan, let's be reasonable here.  We can come up with a compromise, right?



How about if we give him the crown back?  Can we keep him if we give him the crown back?

No?



What if we make his skin less red?  That's less rac-

No, you're right, it's more racist.

How about thi-



Yeah... That one's not gonna fly at all.

Well poop....

Can we just steal the Blackhawks logo then?  No one's biatching about their Indian caricature.


all of those pics are pretty bad.
 
2013-10-15 09:40:23 PM  

NASAM: someonelse: Fighting Irish, yeah, that's kind of offensive.


Are you Irish?


I am, and I don't really have a problem with it. And there's a big difference between the two origins. In the case of the Indians/Braves/Chiefs/Redskins, Native American populations had nothing to do with the team name's origin. The Indians have some (mostly BS) backstory about how it was supposed to be honoring Sockalexis or something, but most people who have actually studied the issue know that the team was mostly just aping the Boston Braves.

Notre Dame, on the other hand, had quite a few Irish people on its team when the name was established (the date at which the name was established is debated, but it doesn't really matter in this case because Irish-Catholics have always been a significant portion of their student body), and continue to have some Irish-Catholic players to this day.
 
2013-10-15 10:04:10 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: Consiglieri Snookie, the new mascot for my beer league baseball team, the Fighting Wops



She's smiling, so you know we are honoring Italian-Americans


Snooki's not even Italian!

/I'd totally buy a Fighting Wops hat.
 
2013-10-15 10:16:43 PM  

Electromax: I'm an Illinois grad and was at school a few years ago when Chief Illiniwek was finally retired (forced out?) by people who were offended, or more accurately offended on behalf of others. I grew up with the mascot so I obviously had some affection for the character and some gear with the Chief on it, but I didn't cry about it when they retired him. If it means one less thing for people to throw stones about, so be it.

Some people definitely cried on tv during the Chief's "Last Dance" at his last basketball halftime appearance. At least they kept the name Fighting Illini (for now).

But I now have less sympathy for others like Redskins and Chief Wahoo because few had sympathy for Illiniwek. Bring the others down with us!


As an Illinois grad myself, I'm just glad the whole stupid argument is finally put to pasture.  I can only put up with hearing one group of white or black people argue with another group of white or black people about how Native Americans should feel about something before both sides of the argument start to reek of some kind of neo-White Man's Burden attitude.  There's so many more important things wrong with life on modern reservations (and the entire State of Illinois, for that matter) that to waste time on a sports mascot seems an especially pointless pursuit for people who are looking to take up a cause.

/I once met a girl who claimed to be Anti-Chief because "her grandfather fought with the Illini at the Battle of Yorktown".
//she had a comparable level of knowledge of the Illiniwek tribes and general American history as the typical person arguing either the Pro- or Anti-Chief positions when I was a student
 
2013-10-15 10:21:01 PM  
[reviews nicknames of favorite teams]

Anaheim Angels: I'm an atheist, but I have no problem with that
Los Angeles Kings: I'm not much of a monarchist, but again, no problem
Los Angeles Lakers: it's a dumb holdover from their Minnesota days, but I'm cool with it
Indianapolis Colts: great name, never mind the Robert Irsay fiasco
Everton Toffees: named after a candy, not the best name but still OK.

I can sleep soundly tonight.
 
2013-10-15 11:13:44 PM  

Henry Holland: [reviews nicknames of favorite teams]

Anaheim Angels: I'm an atheist, but I have no problem with that
Los Angeles Kings: I'm not much of a monarchist, but again, no problem
Los Angeles Lakers: it's a dumb holdover from their Minnesota days, but I'm cool with it
Indianapolis Colts: great name, never mind the Robert Irsay fiasco
Everton Toffees: named after a candy, not the best name but still OK.

I can sleep soundly tonight.


How do you feel about the Utah Jazz?
 
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