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(Russia Today)   Not news: To protect customers from government intrusion, Internet companies are moving their servers to a country that offers greater freedom. Fark: From America to Russia   (rt.com) divider line 66
    More: Ironic  
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2282 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Oct 2013 at 12:30 PM (44 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-15 12:35:09 PM
Remember, they hate us for our freedoms.

USA!
USA!
USA!
USA!
 
2013-10-15 12:35:21 PM
They're going to be in for a shock...
 
2013-10-15 12:35:53 PM
You can do anything in Russia if your bribes are big enough.  And you can keep up on them, for everything, forever.
 
2013-10-15 12:36:02 PM
rt.comrt.com
 
2013-10-15 12:37:06 PM
Not news: To protect customers from government intrusion, Internet companies are moving their servers to a country that offers greater freedom safe havens for money launderers.

FTFY

//"Malaysia-based finance advisory firm"?
 
2013-10-15 12:37:33 PM
In before the irony police. Anyone who looked at the recent history of Russia would know that Russia temporarily became a liberterian utopia after the fall of the USSR. Temporary of course because libertarianism doesn't work as an ideology and the buyouts from the rich left most of the population on the edge of starvation until Putin came in and kept things from collapsing.

Anyway, the point is that it is in no way surprising that modern Russia is more lax in terms of regulation even now, and thus not really ironic.
 
2013-10-15 12:38:20 PM
davidkretzmann.com

I don't expect too many of the usual Total Farkers on this thread.
 
2013-10-15 12:38:24 PM
Just because they're not handing your info over to the NSA doesn't mean they're not reading your email.
 
2013-10-15 12:39:59 PM
Your cunning plan isn't going to work as well as you think it will.

From the linked article: The collection depends on secret arrangements with foreign telecommunications companies or allied intelligence services in control of facilities that direct traffic along the Internet's main data routes.

Basically, the NSA intercepts information abroad because it wouldn't be legal to do it on US soil.
 
2013-10-15 12:40:13 PM
considering the source being russian equivalent of fox news, this piece is propagandic bullshiat.
the same personal privacy violations americans fear in the us, are present in russian and then some.
 
2013-10-15 12:44:21 PM

Gwyrddu: In before the irony police. Anyone who looked at the recent history of Russia would know that Russia temporarily became a liberterian utopia after the fall of the USSR. Temporary of course because libertarianism doesn't work as an ideology and the buyouts from the rich left most of the population on the edge of starvation until Putin came in and kept things from collapsing.

Anyway, the point is that it is in no way surprising that modern Russia is more lax in terms of regulation even now, and thus not really ironic.


Putin can win rock, paper, scissors without using rock, paper, or scissors.
 
2013-10-15 12:47:31 PM

deforge: considering the source being russian equivalent of fox news, this piece is propagandic bullshiat.
the same personal privacy violations americans fear in the us, are present in russian and then some.


Not only that but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Russia is considering enacting some tight controls over internet traffic to help 'fight digital piracy' or some BS. I doubt it'll be all that effective at first, but I would not be at all surprised if they have a Syria-level or higher killswitch over the entire thing already installed.
 
2013-10-15 12:49:33 PM
Wow.  It's a damn good thing the NSA doesn't do any spying overseas.
 
2013-10-15 12:57:04 PM

deforge: the same personal privacy violations americans fear in the us, are present in russian and then some.


True. But now that the U.S. government is no better than the Russian government, there went another reason not to outsource.
 
2013-10-15 12:59:58 PM

Krieghund: Your cunning plan isn't going to work as well as you think it will.

From the linked article: The collection depends on secret arrangements with foreign telecommunications companies or allied intelligence services in control of facilities that direct traffic along the Internet's main data routes.

Basically, the NSA intercepts information abroad because it wouldn't be legal to do it on US soil.


Oh it's legal all right.

Just read the secret FISA Court ruling.
 
2013-10-15 01:00:24 PM

LewDux: Putin can win rock, paper, scissors without using rock, paper, or scissors.


Putin crushes rock.
Putin crushes scissors.
Putin crushes paper.
 
2013-10-15 01:02:34 PM
The desire to relocate is not to avoid interception of traffic in flow.  It is to prevent US government agencies from coming into a data center and saying they are going to monitor (or take/copy) the servers.. and you can't say anything to your clients.  Its to avoid situations like LavaBit where they were literally ordered to turn over the keys of the kingdom to the FBI.  For companies or individuals that don't want their data in the hands of the US government or a unauthorized third party, one solution is make sure your data is not in a US data center in the first place.  The NSA and others are good, but they do rely heavily on the court ordered cooperation of Google, Yahoo, ATT and lots of other providers.

Now, I am very skeptical that Russia is the go to place to keep your data safe, but I'm sure there are more trusted locations that are being looked at.  The loss of trust in data security is bad for US data centers and the people that support them.
 
2013-10-15 01:02:53 PM

HAMMERTOE: deforge: the same personal privacy violations americans fear in the us, are present in russian and then some.

True. But now that the U.S. government is no better than the Russian government, there went another reason not to outsource.


Nah, the privacy violations are a bit different.  In the US we have secret wiretaps and technological back-doors.  In Russia they'd just show up at the company headquarters and haul the CIO off to "interrogation" where he'd have a date with a deep-cycle marine battery and a pair of pliers until he spilled the passwords.
 
2013-10-15 01:03:00 PM
Because everyone knows Russia either inept at or doesn't do any spying.
 
2013-10-15 01:04:03 PM

Nemo's Brother: [davidkretzmann.com image 301x450]

I don't expect too many of the usual Total Farkers on this thread.


The talking point seems to be that Russia is actually a libertarian paradise, and that people who take issue with domestic spying are really just anti-government, anti-regulation, and anti-Obama.

/still no "we get it, he's black" yet
//surprised
 
2013-10-15 01:04:17 PM
This is funny because if you really think your data is safer in Russia, you deserve to have your email's read. The difference between Russia and the United States is that laws protect people's ability to check up on the government.

Hell, reporters without boards lists Russia as 148 out of 179 countries for press freedom. So they may be doing the very same thing as the NSA, they just don't let people talk about it.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-10-15 01:05:56 PM
Good luck with that.
 
2013-10-15 01:07:43 PM

Krieghund: Your cunning plan isn't going to work as well as you think it will.

From the linked article: The collection depends on secret arrangements with foreign telecommunications companies or allied intelligence services in control of facilities that direct traffic along the Internet's main data routes.

Basically, the NSA intercepts information abroad because it wouldn't be legal to do it on US soil.


Well, sort-of.  In theory, it's still illegal for the NSA to intercept the communications of people it knows are "United States Persons", no matter where they are.  In theory.

As we've seen, though, they've wiped the original intent of FISA on their ass so much that only the smallest remnants of it remain, like the scraps of toilet paper that cling to a hairy anus.
 
2013-10-15 01:07:46 PM

Nemo's Brother: [davidkretzmann.com image 301x450]

I don't expect too many of the usual Total Farkers on this thread.



i.dailymail.co.uk

COME ON ME, BRO

 
2013-10-15 01:14:17 PM

Publikwerks: This is funny because if you really think your data is safer in Russia, you deserve to have your email's read. The difference between Russia and the United States is that laws protect people's ability to check up on the government.

Hell, reporters without boards lists Russia as 148 out of 179 countries for press freedom. So they may be doing the very same thing as the NSA, they just don't let people talk about it.


The difference is that if you live in the USA, Russia isn't going to hand over your unenciphered communications to the NSA.  Sure, the FAPSI and GRU Sixth Directorate might read them, but as long as you aren't in Russia, there isn't really all that much they can do about it.

Consider the reverse situation:  If Chechen rebels/dissidents/criminals in Russia were communicating via encrypted e-mails using a web-based e-mail service located in the United States, do you think the NSA would pass the unencrypted communications to Russia?
 
2013-10-15 01:15:10 PM
Pause and think about this for a moment. Your going to move servers out of the US where there are at least some laws and court oversight restraining how the NSA works to another country where there are no laws or court oversight restraining the NSA. I can't possibly be the only person that sees this as a massive logic failure.
 
2013-10-15 01:15:42 PM

dittybopper: Well, sort-of. In theory, it's still illegal for the NSA to intercept the communications of people it knows are "United States Persons", no matter where they are. In theory.


Well, Obama pinky-sweared that nobody is reading our email, and that he's glad we're having this important discussion.  I believe him, just like I believe that he was going to start having this important discussion without having a whistleblower like Snowden initiating the public discourse.

Isn't swearing a handful of Congresspeople to secrecy and telling them certain aspects of domestic surveillance oversight behind closed doors enough oversight?
 
2013-10-15 01:16:28 PM

Nemo's Brother: I don't expect too many of the usual Total Farkers on this thread.


Why not?
 
2013-10-15 01:22:07 PM

vpb: Good luck with that.


Thinking about it, it makes some sense.

If you live in the United States, you don't have to worry about the Russians reading your mail.  You do have to worry about the US government.  Likewise, if you live in Russia, you don't have to worry about the US reading your mail, you have to worry about the Russian government.

So it makes sense, in a way, even if you assume that the hosting government is going to be able to read it, so long as there is an antagonistic relationship between the two governments.  So, for example, it would be rather stupid to try this with one of the countries in the UKUSA Agreement, but a US court order to hand over encryption keys carries zero weight in, say, Outer Bophuthatswana.   Sure, the OBGCHQ might be reading your mail, but it's much less likely that the US is.

Of course, the NSA has ways to side-step that, which is why I argue for offline encryption.  Either do it manually using a strong manual system, or encrypt and decrypt on an "air gapped" computer that is never, ever connected directly to the internet once you set it up.
 
2013-10-15 01:23:58 PM

onyxruby: Pause and think about this for a moment. Your going to move servers out of the US where there are at least some laws and court oversight restraining how the NSA works to another country where there are no laws or court oversight restraining the NSA. I can't possibly be the only person that sees this as a massive logic failure.


"In Russia, one's data is protected by law, Najadi believes. Moreover, Russia is "a protector of peace,"
 
2013-10-15 01:26:59 PM
Farkers should pool their money together and buy an island outside US jurisdiction and open a server farm. Could change exorbitant fees without the threat of lawsuits and all get rich. Can maintain the servers while sitting on a beach drinking my-ti's.
 
2013-10-15 01:27:41 PM

dittybopper: Publikwerks: This is funny because if you really think your data is safer in Russia, you deserve to have your email's read. The difference between Russia and the United States is that laws protect people's ability to check up on the government.

Hell, reporters without boards lists Russia as 148 out of 179 countries for press freedom. So they may be doing the very same thing as the NSA, they just don't let people talk about it.

The difference is that if you live in the USA, Russia isn't going to hand over your unenciphered communications to the NSA.  Sure, the FAPSI and GRU Sixth Directorate might read them, but as long as you aren't in Russia, there isn't really all that much they can do about it.

Consider the reverse situation:  If Chechen rebels/dissidents/criminals in Russia were communicating via encrypted e-mails using a web-based e-mail service located in the United States, do you think the NSA would pass the unencrypted communications to Russia?


You think they would? I would guess not.
 
2013-10-15 01:29:11 PM

ferretman: Farkers should pool their money together and buy an island outside US jurisdiction and open a server farm. Could change exorbitant fees without the threat of lawsuits and all get rich. Can maintain the servers while sitting on a beach drinking my-ti's.


Ummmm, already been done
media.npr.org
http://www.sealandgov.org/
 
2013-10-15 01:30:31 PM

Publikwerks: ferretman: Farkers should pool their money together and buy an island outside US jurisdiction and open a server farm. Could change exorbitant fees without the threat of lawsuits and all get rich. Can maintain the servers while sitting on a beach drinking my-ti's.

Ummmm, already been done
[media.npr.org image 850x547]
http://www.sealandgov.org/


Good luck defending that from a SEAL incursion or drone attack.
 
2013-10-15 01:32:47 PM

Krieghund: Basically, the NSA intercepts information abroad because it wouldn't be legal to do it on US soil.


Your letting facts get in the way sensationalism! Don't you know your not supposed to do that?
 
2013-10-15 01:33:09 PM

Krieghund: Your cunning plan isn't going to work as well as you think it will.

From the linked article: The collection depends on secret arrangements with foreign telecommunications companies or allied intelligence services in control of facilities that direct traffic along the Internet's main data routes.

Basically, the NSA intercepts information abroad because it wouldn't be legal to do it on US soil.


Not only that, but Russia's SORM system makes the NSA look like good guys (a neat trick). Great going, guys, you now have both the NSA and the FSB listening in.
 
2013-10-15 01:37:23 PM
i44.tinypic.com
 
2013-10-15 01:39:48 PM
What I want is a host that could allow someone to put a video of, say, police brutality online and would not take it down when the local or state government asked it to.  What country would be best for that?
 
2013-10-15 01:40:51 PM

flondrix: What I want is a host that could allow someone to put a video of, say, police brutality online and would not take it down when the local or state government asked it to.  What country would be best for that?


Utopia?
 
2013-10-15 01:44:22 PM
The USA and Russia have done complete 180's; russia has a balanced budget and low taxes, and the USA is starting to resemble the USSR.
 
2013-10-15 01:45:23 PM

Nurglitch: They're going to be in for a shock...


If they host 4chann.
 
2013-10-15 01:45:25 PM

onyxruby: Pause and think about this for a moment. Your going to move servers out of the US where there are at least some laws and court oversight restraining how the NSA works to another country where there are no laws or court oversight restraining the NSA. I can't possibly be the only person that sees this as a massive logic failure.


Paused and thunk.  My conclusion is that the head of privately held, multi-billion dollar company has the time, finances, intelligence and incentive to collect information regarding the best interests of his mini empire.

I'm pretty certain he knows a bit more about the situation than you and is not, in fact, suffering from a massive logic failure.

/thinking cap off
 
2013-10-15 01:52:17 PM

Publikwerks: ferretman: Farkers should pool their money together and buy an island outside US jurisdiction and open a server farm. Could change exorbitant fees without the threat of lawsuits and all get rich. Can maintain the servers while sitting on a beach drinking my-ti's.

Ummmm, already been done
[media.npr.org image 850x547]
http://www.sealandgov.org/


The problem is you have to get the data there. And one has to assume that all data tubes are compromised.
 
2013-10-15 01:57:03 PM

Fark It: Publikwerks: ferretman: Farkers should pool their money together and buy an island outside US jurisdiction and open a server farm. Could change exorbitant fees without the threat of lawsuits and all get rich. Can maintain the servers while sitting on a beach drinking my-ti's.

Ummmm, already been done
[media.npr.org image 850x547]
http://www.sealandgov.org/

Good luck defending that from a SEAL incursion or drone attack.


SEAL incursion is easy:  Booby trap it so that if something happens, you've got a dead-man's switch that will blow the whole thing up, and then publish the fact along with your willingness to use it, but don't give any technical details.

Drones, or indeed, even conventional aircraft strikes are a much, much tougher proposition to defend against.
 
2013-10-15 01:57:35 PM

dittybopper: flondrix: What I want is a host that could allow someone to put a video of, say, police brutality online and would not take it down when the local or state government asked it to.  What country would be best for that?

Utopia?


Sorry, I meant a country that would ignore pleas from local governments in the USA--so no Utopia is needed, just a country that wants the hosting revenue and doesn't give a fark what local governments within the USA want.
 
2013-10-15 01:59:27 PM

Publikwerks: So they may be doing the very same thing as the NSA, they just don't let people talk about it.


A certain gentleman named Snowden would possibly have something to say about that.
 
2013-10-15 02:00:48 PM

MadMattressMack: The problem is you have to get the data there. And one has to assume that all data tubes are compromised.


It's not the tubes themselves you have to worry about:  Good encryption will protect you there.  It's the end points of the tubes.  Like, your computer, and the server you are using.
 
wee [TotalFark]
2013-10-15 02:07:34 PM

ferretman: Farkers should pool their money together and buy an island outside US jurisdiction and open a server farm. Could change exorbitant fees without the threat of lawsuits and all get rich. Can maintain the servers while sitting on a beach drinking my-ti's.


And who is going to provide this tech utopia with connectivity?  At what cost and under what stipulations?

/It's spelled Mai Tai.
 
2013-10-15 02:18:32 PM

HAMMERTOE: Publikwerks: So they may be doing the very same thing as the NSA, they just don't let people talk about it.

A certain gentleman named Snowden would possibly have something to say about that.


He'll never know what Russia is doing.

And any potential Snowdonski knows what Russia would do to them.  And they have fewer options for escape, and likely less technical knowledge about how to avoid being caught, because I'm betting the Russians compartmentalize their stuff even more than we do.
 
2013-10-15 02:43:54 PM

wee: ferretman: Farkers should pool their money together and buy an island outside US jurisdiction and open a server farm. Could change exorbitant fees without the threat of lawsuits and all get rich. Can maintain the servers while sitting on a beach drinking my-ti's.

And who is going to provide this tech utopia with connectivity?  At what cost and under what stipulations?

/It's spelled Mai Tai.


I'd rather people just used good encryption intelligently.

Of course, that won't help against things like social network analysis, traffic analysis, and the ubiquitous tracking people via their cell phone metadata, but hey, you can't have everything, can you?
 
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