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(Talking Points Memo)   Senate GOP: Simmer down, we found a way out of this mess. House GOP: Well, then we'll just issue another counter offer with attacks on Obamacare then. HA   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 644
    More: News, GOP, White House, obamacare, Senate, Boehner, Charlie Dent, David Vitter  
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10695 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Oct 2013 at 10:53 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-15 03:58:39 PM  

There I Was: all-day post extravaganza


If you had been here for all of it and/or read all of it, you would not be coming at me like this.
 
2013-10-15 04:11:44 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Infernalist: Grand_Moff_Joseph: And now they want to skip out of town:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/report-house-gop-considers-pas si ng-bill-then-leaving-town

"According to , House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH), House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA) and House Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) are discussing "voting on their bill and, if it passes, leaving town - a bid to try to force the Senate's hand."

That seems like that would push beyond the limits of acceptability and into 'sedition' territory.

THIS.  Sadly though, no one is willing to enforce that.


actually, there WAS an article on here a few days ago (sorry, searching the archive's not turning anything up) about how pissed off the federal courts are because they can't afford to do their jobs anymore...  so two out of three branches might be on the same side here...
 
2013-10-15 04:31:57 PM  

Chariset: But remember, folks, the Democrats are the ones prolonging this by refusing to make any concessions.


Despite the fact that the GOP got 98% of what they wanted!
 
2013-10-15 04:33:29 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: happydude45: We have a spending problem. At least one former member of congress used to think so.

[i912.photobucket.com image 422x750]

So, let's see in 2006 when the economy was booming Senator Obama opposed increasing deficit spending, which is a stimulus. Since 2009, President Obama is in favor of deficit spending, which is a stimulus.

Hmm....what happened between 2006 and 2009? Maybe something that effected the economy and required stimulus spending? Say the Bush recession?

If you understand economics, particularly Keynesian economics, then you understand there is no contradiction between Senator Obamas position in 2006 and President Obamas position in 2013. NONE. I'm guessing you never took an economics class and barely passed high school.


What's wrong with using American economics?! What is he hiding?!
 
2013-10-15 04:35:55 PM  

Detinwolf: Mike Chewbacca: We were forking over $1200/month for COBRA, and then $780/month for insurance for two non-smokers

Insanity.  No one should have to shell out $14,400/yr for COBRA.  My dad is looking at COBRA (going to retire and lose his very good work benefits) and he's "lucky" enough that he can replace his house payment with a COBRA payment.

This is why reform is needed.  The system is just too expensive.


except that starting now he can go to the exchange and get pretty good coverage for a lot less.
gold plus or whatever the fark it is that they are calling it
 
2013-10-15 04:37:12 PM  
How cute. Harry Reid still thinks that spending bills originate from the Senate. The Senate and the President are going to have to deal with a bill from the House, or the Senate and/or President will be responsible for missing any real or perceived debt limit deadlines and associated consequences.
 
2013-10-15 04:40:07 PM  
I think there are too many people in here who think that Obamacare is either ALL BAD or ALL GOOD. From my experience working in health insurance and actually reading the ACA, it does have both good and bad issues. It mostly benefits the weakest members of our society (the poor, those with pre-existing conditions, etc.) It hurts the healthy. Premiums have gone up quite a bit since the ACA was passed. That is bad. They will likely continue to go up as the ramifications of being required to take on sick people play out. It's gonna vary from person to person if you think this was worth it. In my opinion, I'm hoping it fails horribly and is followed up with UHC. With UHC, you can say goodbye to all the needless overhead wasted on health insurance operations, billing, profits, etc.
 
2013-10-15 04:43:18 PM  

fartacus: How cute. Harry Reid still thinks that spending bills originate from the Senate. The Senate and the President are going to have to deal with a bill from the House, or the Senate and/or President will be responsible for missing any real or perceived debt limit deadlines and associated consequences.


Could you cite how the government funding bill is a revenue bill? Or are you really pontificating about the Constitution without actually knowing what it says?
 
2013-10-15 04:48:02 PM  

The First Four Black Sabbath Albums: Premiums have gone up quite a bit since the ACA was passed.


That is a bit of a weak argument since premiums went up quite a bit BEFORE the ACA was passed.

I'd prefer UHC too, but there is no question in my mind that Obamacare is the necessary first step to get there. There is simply no way that we could make the jump straight to UHC. The key is banning lifetime limits and banning excluding people due to pre-existing conditions. If those hold, the system will eventually be beaten into rational shape.
 
2013-10-15 04:53:24 PM  

The First Four Black Sabbath Albums: I think there are too many people in here who think that Obamacare is either ALL BAD or ALL GOOD. From my experience working in health insurance and actually reading the ACA, it does have both good and bad issues. It mostly benefits the weakest members of our society (the poor, those with pre-existing conditions, etc.) It hurts the healthy. Premiums have gone up quite a bit since the ACA was passed. That is bad. They will likely continue to go up as the ramifications of being required to take on sick people play out. It's gonna vary from person to person if you think this was worth it. In my opinion, I'm hoping it fails horribly and is followed up with UHC. With UHC, you can say goodbye to all the needless overhead wasted on health insurance operations, billing, profits, etc.


Great share, and thanks for passing on your thoughts-->seriously.

One thing with your hope that it fails and we move to Universal Health Care(UHC?)with the cessation of "health insurance operations, billing, profits, etc." and all of the thousands(millions?)of jobs that would go with. I know that some of those people would go to work for the government to do those same jobs, but is that better? Do we want the whole country to be dependent on the government, that we are all criticizing in some way for some reason, to be in charge of our healthcare?
 
2013-10-15 04:54:25 PM  

Surpheon: fartacus: How cute. Harry Reid still thinks that spending bills originate from the Senate. The Senate and the President are going to have to deal with a bill from the House, or the Senate and/or President will be responsible for missing any real or perceived debt limit deadlines and associated consequences.

Could you cite how the government funding bill is a revenue bill? Or are you really pontificating about the Constitution without actually knowing what it says?


Appropriations would fit that definition.
 
2013-10-15 04:55:57 PM  

Surpheon: fartacus: How cute. Harry Reid still thinks that spending bills originate from the Senate. The Senate and the President are going to have to deal with a bill from the House, or the Senate and/or President will be responsible for missing any real or perceived debt limit deadlines and associated consequences.

Could you cite how the government funding bill is a revenue bill? Or are you really pontificating about the Constitution without actually knowing what it says?


Actually, taxing and spending bills originate from the House. Of course, dishonest liberals such as you like to distort and twist the way our government is supposed to work to suit your agendas.
 
2013-10-15 05:00:28 PM  
...and the House has finally done it:  They've gone ALL IN, and have stood up at the table:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101087385

The House GOP will vote on a bill that would fund the government and avoid default, a spokesman for Speaker John Boehner told AP.   The bill would fund the shuttered U.S. government until December 15, and raise the debt ceiling until Feb 7th, a source told CNBC.

The proposal would also remove a subsidy to help government employees purchase health care on the new Obamacare exchanges, the source said. The bill would not include, like previous efforts, a delay in the medical device tax.



Last one out, turn out the lights.
 
2013-10-15 05:08:45 PM  

Xenomech: asmodeus224: Yea, all you need is a latino and all the latinos will vote for you, of course...they are really stupid like that. Proceed, GOP

Hey, it worked for the black vote.

[i.imgur.com image 450x341]


heheheheeh
how did those same groups vote in the last 100 elections when there wasnt a black or latino candidate.
 
2013-10-15 05:10:29 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: Infernalist: ciberido: Mike_LowELL: Nadie_AZ: Mike_LowELL: This default would not be happening if you stupid liberals would stop defaulting to a Democrat every time an election comes around.

This is so true.

Seconded.  Completely agree with you.

Did you forget to switch to your other alt before posting again, Mike?

Don't be silly, Mike isn't an alt.  And he's allowed to second his own post, cause reasons.

RangerTaylor: Mike_LowELL: This default would not be happening if you stupid liberals would stop defaulting to a Democrat every time an election comes around.

My God, you're incredible.  Brevity, direction, clarity.  You are my farking hero Mike.

9/10, you forgot 'libtard'

There is a reason why Mike isn't on my ignore list.


Oh, it's the battle of the Mikes!  It's on!  Two Mikes enter, one Mike leaves!

Let's get ready to rrrrrrumble!

Fight, fight!
 
2013-10-15 05:15:00 PM  

fartacus: Surpheon: fartacus: How cute. Harry Reid still thinks that spending bills originate from the Senate. The Senate and the President are going to have to deal with a bill from the House, or the Senate and/or President will be responsible for missing any real or perceived debt limit deadlines and associated consequences.

Could you cite how the government funding bill is a revenue bill? Or are you really pontificating about the Constitution without actually knowing what it says?

Actually, taxing and spending bills originate from the House. Of course, dishonest liberals such as you like to distort and twist the way our government is supposed to work to suit your agendas.


heheheheehe so cute
thinks originates is the same thing as gets complete and total control of.
they are SUPPOSED to start in the house, but that is all. and even that is not iron clad.
and even if it were, the senate can make ANY and ALL changes that it wants. Strange how the constitution gives them that power.

the president?
he has to wait until he gets a bill, which he can then veto
 
2013-10-15 05:16:58 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: ...and the House has finally done it:  They've gone ALL IN, and have stood up at the table:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101087385

The House GOP will vote on a bill that would fund the government and avoid default, a spokesman for Speaker John Boehner told AP.   The bill would fund the shuttered U.S. government until December 15, and raise the debt ceiling until Feb 7th, a source told CNBC.

The proposal would also remove a subsidy to help government employees purchase health care on the new Obamacare exchanges, the source said. The bill would not include, like previous efforts, a delay in the medical device tax.


Last one out, turn out the lights.


They did pull out the delay in the tax.

Wow.

Now the staffers will just resign.
 
2013-10-15 05:28:33 PM  

meat0918: Grand_Moff_Joseph: ...and the House has finally done it:  They've gone ALL IN, and have stood up at the table:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101087385

The House GOP will vote on a bill that would fund the government and avoid default, a spokesman for Speaker John Boehner told AP.   The bill would fund the shuttered U.S. government until December 15, and raise the debt ceiling until Feb 7th, a source told CNBC.

The proposal would also remove a subsidy to help government employees purchase health care on the new Obamacare exchanges, the source said. The bill would not include, like previous efforts, a delay in the medical device tax.


Last one out, turn out the lights.

They did pull out the delay in the tax.

Wow.

Now the staffers will just resign.


So, their final offer is to cleanly raise the debt limit and the shutdown and throw their own staffers under the bus?

#WINNING!

or not
 
2013-10-15 05:30:49 PM  
Everyone may as well just turn off their interwebs until the "deadline" passes. All for show. Nothing will happen. And if it could, I wish it would, just to get the hard part over with.
 
2013-10-15 05:43:38 PM  

namatad: fartacus: Surpheon: fartacus: How cute. Harry Reid still thinks that spending bills originate from the Senate. The Senate and the President are going to have to deal with a bill from the House, or the Senate and/or President will be responsible for missing any real or perceived debt limit deadlines and associated consequences.

Could you cite how the government funding bill is a revenue bill? Or are you really pontificating about the Constitution without actually knowing what it says?

Actually, taxing and spending bills originate from the House. Of course, dishonest liberals such as you like to distort and twist the way our government is supposed to work to suit your agendas.

heheheheehe so cute
thinks originates is the same thing as gets complete and total control of.
they are SUPPOSED to start in the house, but that is all. and even that is not iron clad.
and even if it were, the senate can make ANY and ALL changes that it wants. Strange how the constitution gives them that power.

the president?
he has to wait until he gets a bill, which he can then veto


Another dumbass liberal relying on logical fallacy.  Straw man much?
 
2013-10-15 05:48:45 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: And now they want to skip out of town:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/report-house-gop-considers-pas si ng-bill-then-leaving-town

"According to , House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH), House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA) and House Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) are discussing "voting on their bill and, if it passes, leaving town - a bid to try to force the Senate's hand."


I've heard the Capitol Police have carried Senators into the chamber when they didn't want to attend. In this case, why don't we just bar the doors and put The Rains of Castamere on in the background?
 
2013-10-15 05:48:46 PM  

George Babbitt: Surpheon: fartacus: How cute. Harry Reid still thinks that spending bills originate from the Senate. The Senate and the President are going to have to deal with a bill from the House, or the Senate and/or President will be responsible for missing any real or perceived debt limit deadlines and associated consequences.

Could you cite how the government funding bill is a revenue bill? Or are you really pontificating about the Constitution without actually knowing what it says?

Appropriations would fit that definition.


No. No they would not and - by the ruling of the Constitutionally appointed and empowered Court - do not.
 
2013-10-15 06:45:06 PM  

George Babbitt: There I Was: all-day post extravaganza

If you had been here for all of it and/or read all of it, you would not be coming at me like this.


Actually, you totally deserved that. Your initial post was a whargarbly "I can't afford $178 in insurance for a $60 copay and $6000 deductible" and then we found out that not only can you afford that, but that's not even what your insurance rate would be, and you get insurance through your work. You're full of shiat, and you got called on it numerous times.
 
2013-10-15 07:19:39 PM  
Considering the amount of bile being spewed by the Democrats over this, I'm guessing the Republicans just want to shut the whole thing down out of spite.  And I don't blame them.
 
2013-10-15 07:39:09 PM  

chevyguy68: Just found out that my health care is going from $300 a month to $550, great health care reform you got there, Obama.


"Account created:2013-10-13 13:59:36"

Who wants to play Guess the (Lying) Alt?
 
2013-10-15 07:45:08 PM  

KellyX: Clutch2013: Grand_Moff_Joseph: And now they want to skip out of town:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/report-house-gop-considers-pas si ng-bill-then-leaving-town

"According to , House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH), House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA) and House Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) are discussing "voting on their bill and, if it passes, leaving town - a bid to try to force the Senate's hand."

Jesus Christ.

They need to air this shiat all over the networks, then have FBI agents waiting at all their houses.

[i106.photobucket.com image 800x800]


But remember, this "sedition" is the highest form of patriotism when Democrats do it to Scott Walker.
 
2013-10-15 07:51:29 PM  

Obama's Reptiloid Master: George Babbitt: Kit Fister: Stop believing that because people thought the R candidates were worse, it equates to a referendum on ACA.

^This

Oh Jesus Christ. You people can rationalize anything.

"It's not that people voted for Obama even though he continues to have high poll numbers and be quite popular. It's just that they thought the last crop of RINOs was worse! I know, let's veer even harder to the right! That's what the American people, especially those slutty women and lazy ethnic minorities think!"


All I remember were promises to pull troops out...
 
2013-10-15 08:18:10 PM  

the_sidewinder: Oop, image is too big, didn't preview, have a link instead


OOoh, storytime, yay!

Of course, in reality, Conservatives aren't like the scorpion in your story.  Real Conservatives aren't that self-aware.
 
2013-10-15 08:31:25 PM  

Prophet of Loss: How about we start a no Democrats, no GOP movement next election season? Its time to give some other political parties a try.


I would be willing to help campaign for that in CA.
 
2013-10-15 08:33:43 PM  

HammerMill: Please give me one example of a function that government has taken over and made it better, faster, or cheaper.

There are none.  While in principal the ACA is full of rainbows and sunshine for everyone, in practice it will be is a mess.


Roads, drinking water, and killing people.
 
2013-10-15 09:02:07 PM  

JerseyTim: Having spent two hours talking to House Republicans, my expert investment advice is: Short everything- daveweigel (@daveweigel) October 15, 2013

Sell, Mortimer! Sell!


Beeks! Where the hell is Beeks?!
 
2013-10-15 09:19:37 PM  

fartacus: Surpheon: fartacus: How cute. Harry Reid still thinks that spending bills originate from the Senate. The Senate and the President are going to have to deal with a bill from the House, or the Senate and/or President will be responsible for missing any real or perceived debt limit deadlines and associated consequences.

Could you cite how the government funding bill is a revenue bill? Or are you really pontificating about the Constitution without actually knowing what it says?

Actually, taxing and spending bills originate from the House. Of course, dishonest liberals such as you like to distort and twist the way our government is supposed to work to suit your agendas.


*blink*
*blink*
*blink*

This is the single-greatest statement of hypocrisy I've ever seen in my life.
 
2013-10-15 09:21:22 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: George Babbitt: There I Was: all-day post extravaganza

If you had been here for all of it and/or read all of it, you would not be coming at me like this.

Actually, you totally deserved that. Your initial post was a whargarbly "I can't afford $178 in insurance for a $60 copay and $6000 deductible" and then we found out that not only can you afford that, but that's not even what your insurance rate would be, and you get insurance through your work. You're full of shiat, and you got called on it numerous times.


Yeah, I deal in hypothetical, and purely academic, discussions a lot of the time as I have very little to complain about these days which aren't superficial and unimportant to real life. I would apologize for the round robin, but it probably wouldn't get accepted, and besides, it was fun and I may have learned something. I'm sure somebody else probably did, I'm pretty thick-headed.
 
2013-10-15 09:32:24 PM  

Mouser: Considering the amount of bile being spewed by the Democrats over this, I'm guessing the Republicans just want to shut the whole thing down out of spite.  And I don't blame them.


1. Republicans shut down government in attempt to thwart settled and enacted law, a manner of legislation that would utterly destroy the balance of powers.
2. Sane humans across the world excoriate them for their obvious attempt to steal executive power
3. Person on internet thinks Republicans finally have justification to destroy global economy because they got called bad words.

Dude, you are a *terrible* citizen and probably ethically defective in some manner if this is seriously your thinking process.
 
2013-10-15 09:35:39 PM  

Mouser: Considering the amount of bile being spewed by the Democrats over this, I'm guessing the Republicans just want to shut the whole thing down out of spite.  And I don't blame them.


If the Republicans can't get what they want, then NOBODY gets what they want!
 
2013-10-15 09:36:31 PM  

fartacus: How cute. Harry Reid still thinks that spending bills originate from the Senate. The Senate and the President are going to have to deal with a bill from the House, or the Senate and/or President will be responsible for missing any real or perceived debt limit deadlines and associated consequences.


Hey, drooling moron; do you know the difference between authoring a bill and sponsoring a bill?
 
2013-10-15 09:41:03 PM  

Tatterdemalian: KellyX: Clutch2013: Grand_Moff_Joseph: And now they want to skip out of town:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/report-house-gop-considers-pas si ng-bill-then-leaving-town

"According to , House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH), House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA) and House Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) are discussing "voting on their bill and, if it passes, leaving town - a bid to try to force the Senate's hand."

Jesus Christ.

They need to air this shiat all over the networks, then have FBI agents waiting at all their houses.

[i106.photobucket.com image 800x800]

But remember, this "sedition" is the highest form of patriotism when Democrats do it to Scott Walker.


minor difference there.  the minority was attempting to prevent the vote on shiatty legislation that the governor and the majority were intent on ramming through the system from being called to the floor, not passing shiatty legislation and then making themselves unavailable for any other voting if it got sent back.
i know there's more to it than that, but there is a minor difference between the two scenarios.
 
2013-10-15 09:45:26 PM  

Tatterdemalian: KellyX: Clutch2013: Grand_Moff_Joseph: And now they want to skip out of town:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/report-house-gop-considers-pas si ng-bill-then-leaving-town

"According to , House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH), House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA) and House Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) are discussing "voting on their bill and, if it passes, leaving town - a bid to try to force the Senate's hand."

Jesus Christ.

They need to air this shiat all over the networks, then have FBI agents waiting at all their houses.

[i106.photobucket.com image 800x800]

But remember, this "sedition" is the highest form of patriotism when Democrats do it to Scott Walker.


also, after the initial "make a political statement about the issue" was accomplished, even a lot of the hardcore dems in wi didn't honestly consider it "patriotism"... the overwhelming sentiment became pretty much "stop being silly".  so it'll be interesting to see if walker's re-elected, and what seats change next year...
 
2013-10-15 11:53:08 PM  

Tatterdemalian: KellyX: They need to air this shiat all over the networks, then have FBI agents waiting at all their houses.

[i106.photobucket.com image 800x800]

But remember, this "sedition" is the highest form of patriotism when Democrats do it to Scott Walker.


Yawn.  Even if you were right, all you'd have is a tu quoque.  Your schtick is lame.
 
2013-10-16 01:47:47 AM  

Chariset: But remember, folks, the Democrats are the ones prolonging this by refusing to make any concessions.


And also because they're the ones who changed the House rules so that no one besides Cantor or his appointee could bring legislation up for vote.
Oh wait, sorry.  That was Republicans.  Right before the shutdown.  But yeah, it's all the Dems fault for not caving to their whining and foot-stomping.
 
2013-10-16 01:53:28 AM  

Heliovdrake: The US government is not in the business of negotiating with extortionists.

The ACA WAS a compromise. It was voted into law by congress.

The people supported it in not ONE but TWO National Elections where it was a major issue each time.

The Supreme court upheld its legality.

The GOP failed to repeal it 42+ times.


All this and more.  The bill is passed.  The compromise was already done.

What they're doing is essentially equivalent to threatening to burn down a house they had already negotiated a price on unless the buyer pays them double.  They then have the gall to call the buyer unreasonable and uncompromising for refusing to negotiate on new terms.
 
2013-10-16 02:42:05 AM  

George Babbitt: Why isn't anybody addressing the fact that the healthcare industry is the crook here?


They are, and the one doing it is the government that you seem to think is conspiring to bilk everyone.

The Department of Health and Human Services released the first ever collection of data on the prices for the 100 most common procedures billed by hospitals, in hopes that it will exert a corrective force to help drive prices down.  You'd better believe that insurance providers are paying attention to that data to use in their negotiations with hospitals, and hospitals will have no more excuse for grossly overcharging when they're no longer having to treat so many uninsured people.
 
2013-10-16 08:57:22 AM  

Gawdzila: The Department of Health and Human Services released the first ever collection of data on the prices for the 100 most common procedures billed by hospitals, in hopes that it will exert a corrective force to help drive prices down. You'd better believe that insurance providers are paying attention to that data to use in their negotiations with hospitals, and hospitals will have no more excuse for grossly overcharging when they're no longer having to treat so many uninsured people.


What that is very interesting.

img.fark.net
 
2013-10-16 09:14:18 AM  

ciberido: Tatterdemalian: KellyX: They need to air this shiat all over the networks, then have FBI agents waiting at all their houses.

[i106.photobucket.com image 800x800]

But remember, this "sedition" is the highest form of patriotism when Democrats do it to Scott Walker.

Yawn.  Even if you were right, all you'd have is a tu quoque.  Your schtick is lame.


Logical fallacies work, when used to hustle people instead of debate them.

/also when hustling the hustlers
//all I did was defuse KellyX's logical fallacy with my own
///and, for my purposes, that's all that matters
 
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