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(Talking Points Memo)   Senate GOP: Simmer down, we found a way out of this mess. House GOP: Well, then we'll just issue another counter offer with attacks on Obamacare then. HA   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 644
    More: News, GOP, White House, obamacare, Senate, Boehner, Charlie Dent, David Vitter  
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10689 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Oct 2013 at 10:53 AM (45 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-15 12:43:01 PM
Are Boner and the rest of them meth heads or what?
 
2013-10-15 12:43:43 PM

KellyX: meat0918: darlid01: For my family of four, the cost will remain exactly the same since we get it through work. However, if I was to be working somewhere that didn't have benefits, it would cost $124/month for a family of four. Why? Because I live in MN where we were smart about it and MNCare is awesome.

I still haven't been told what our benefits are changing to, only that they have changed and are compliant with the ACA and at the bronze level.

The average bronze level plan in Oregon is less than what I am paying now though...

Deductibles are pretty high though... Here in FL I qualified for $99 credit, bringing a Bronze to $67 a month, but with a $6500 deductible... *sigh*


If you qualify for a premium subsidy, you also likely qualify for cost-sharing subsidies (which the calculators don't take into account).  That will lower your per-visit costs and such.
 
2013-10-15 12:43:52 PM
Just gonna post this here
 
2013-10-15 12:44:35 PM

Soup4Bonnie: Dusk-You-n-Me: Well at least they have plenty of time to sort this all out!

I'm trying to limit my drinking these days.


In this economy???
 
2013-10-15 12:45:19 PM

blindio: HammerMill: Please give me one example of a function that government has taken over and made it better, faster, or cheaper.


Killing Asians, Arabs, and other brown poor people, for one.
Soon, they'll be coming for you too.
 
2013-10-15 12:45:46 PM

George Babbitt: Infernalist: You do realize that under ACA rules, insurance companies are required to issue refunds at the end of the year if you don't use that insurance in that year's time?

That is the first time in history I have ever heard of insurance doing that and if true would be awesome, citation needed though, if you please.



What Infernalist was referring to was the 80/20 requirement: 80% of each dollar you pay must, on average, go to healthcare, while only 20% can go to overhead costs.  If there is a gap, you get the difference.

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=ACA+insurance+refund
 
2013-10-15 12:46:22 PM
We have two days to do this. There's no way they can do it before Thursday. We're going right off the cliff.
 
2013-10-15 12:47:23 PM

NewportBarGuy: We have two days to do this. There's no way they can do it before Thursday. We're going right off the cliff.


I don't have much in the way of investments, but what I have has been pulled from the market.  I don't have high hopes.

But if they force a default, I expect the President to officially lose his shiat and have them arrested.

I expect it.
 
2013-10-15 12:49:07 PM

happydude45: We have a spending problem. At least one former member of congress used to think so.

[i912.photobucket.com image 422x750]


So, let's see in 2006 when the economy was booming Senator Obama opposed increasing deficit spending, which is a stimulus. Since 2009, President Obama is in favor of deficit spending, which is a stimulus.

Hmm....what happened between 2006 and 2009? Maybe something that effected the economy and required stimulus spending? Say the Bush recession?

If you understand economics, particularly Keynesian economics, then you understand there is no contradiction between Senator Obamas position in 2006 and President Obamas position in 2013. NONE. I'm guessing you never took an economics class and barely passed high school.
 
2013-10-15 12:49:52 PM

Where wolf: George Babbitt: Infernalist: You do realize that under ACA rules, insurance companies are required to issue refunds at the end of the year if you don't use that insurance in that year's time?

That is the first time in history I have ever heard of insurance doing that and if true would be awesome, citation needed though, if you please.


What Infernalist was referring to was the 80/20 requirement: 80% of each dollar you pay must, on average, go to healthcare, while only 20% can go to overhead costs.  If there is a gap, you get the difference.

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=ACA+insurance+refund


No, that's not correct.

80% of the dollars the INSURANCE company takes in must go to health care. If more than 20% goes to overhead, insurance is required to send checks to the insured. Slight difference, but you don't get a huge refund every year if you don't use your insurance.
 
2013-10-15 12:51:12 PM
The GOP is going to make sure we default.  They see the good times and budget surplus under Clinton as purely a result of the contract with America.  They see that everyone loves Clinton and gives them no credit for the late 90s.  Well this time around they are going the other direction, they are gonna crash the economy just so that 20 years from now people will hopefully look back on Obama and say that he was bad.  They literally want to do it because they think Obama will get blamed.  They no longer have any political goals or ideas it's just do everything they can to make Obama look bad and try to mess things up because they can't make the country better when a Democrat is in the White House.
It's pretty farked up and the debt limit particularly so.  They can raise the debt limit by just saying we raise the debt limit, just like that basically wave a magic wand and no more default or threat of default hanging over the economies head but they won't do it because they hate America because America had the audacity to elect a Democratic president.
 
2013-10-15 12:52:03 PM

The Irresponsible Captain: Just keep working at it, House GOP.

[planetpov.com image 183x125]


Dig UP, stupid!
 
2013-10-15 12:52:04 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: blindio: HammerMill: Please give me one example of a function that government has taken over and made it better, faster, or cheaper.

Killing Asians, Arabs, and other brown poor people, for one.
Soon, they'll be coming for you too.


I hope everyone is buying their Zippos. There's going to be a lot of draft card burning soon and very soon. They make Zippos in women's models too.

Farking oil wars. Our young people fight them, other nations' oil companies get the profits.
 
2013-10-15 12:54:06 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: Are Boner and the rest of them meth heads or what?


No, they have just fallen into a lot of cognitive dissonance.  Their social, economic, and foreign policies that they have believed in for the last thirty three years have proven time and again to be utter and complete failures. The only thing they can understand to do is to cling harder to those same policies with the idea that this time restricitng the rights of a minority, reducing the role government plays in peoples lives, and screwing with other nations will work.

They truly believe that they are right and if we would all just go along with the program the US will enter a new golden age, despite being proven wrong on everything for the last thirty three years. That much cognitive dissonance will drive anybody crazy.
 
2013-10-15 12:54:15 PM
Oop, image is too big, didn't preview, have a link instead
 
2013-10-15 12:54:19 PM

Prophet of Loss: How about we start a no Democrats, no GOP movement next election season? Its time to give some other political parties a try.


aren't you Canadian?
 
2013-10-15 12:54:21 PM

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: Infernalist: HammerMill: Please give me one example of a function that government has taken over and made it better, faster, or cheaper.

There are none.  While in principal the ACA is full of rainbows and sunshine for everyone, in practice it will be is a mess.

1) Do everything you can to screw up the government.

2) Campaign on the premise that government is screwed up and we need less of it.

3) Profit.

It baffles me that voters will elect people who's stated goal is to destroy the government.


Because then they won't have anyone keeping them from owning the guns that they're already not kept from owning!!
 
2013-10-15 12:54:40 PM
This lady questioning Carney is attacking Obama for violating his principles of not negotiating on the debt ceiling.

Well, dumbass, Obama wouldn't have to negotiate if the GOP wasn't being complete f*cking nutjob assholes. Yes, he is going back on his word because he is goddamn forced to try anything for fear of the government defaulting.

She just wants a soundbite where Obama is backing down and going back on his word.
 
2013-10-15 12:56:56 PM
The more assholish they behave, the more delicious and (hopefully) enduring the backlash will be.
 
2013-10-15 12:57:57 PM

JolobinSmokin: Kit Fister: JolobinSmokin: actually everything you just said makes it exactly that because those were our two options and you chose the Obamacare option. Just admit it to yourself and you'll be happier in the long run.

Or I'll continue to support the candidates that are the best options on my issues, regardless of whatever meaningless drivvel you want to tack on?

which is exactly what I said and you keep denying it.


Sorry, I misunderstood. :)
 
2013-10-15 01:00:00 PM
Brianna Keilar: Obama seems ok with the senate bill that has a concession in it. Does that mean he is a lying scumbag that doesn't stand on his word and is negotiating on the debt ceiling?
Carney: Why are you asking this? We need the debt ceiling raised and the government re-opened.
Keilar: But, Obama is going back on his word, right?
Carney: We want an agreement that will pass the senate and the house
Keilar: So, he is a lying scumbag?
 
2013-10-15 01:01:58 PM

Heliovdrake: make me some tea: So, basically they are going to monkey around with the funding for ACA, turning a fully funded system into a partially funded system. WINNING

They are very worried that the ACA will work, and people will like it.


Nope.  They are worried it will suck, but that people grow to accept a shiat sandwich, because well, it is a free shiat sandwich.  People will line up for hours or days for something they deem is 'theirs'.  It doesnt matter if it sucks or if they even want it.

Much like a beaten girlfriend, they keep hanging around the asshole because they tell themselves a shiatty boyfriend is somehow better than no boyfriend.
 
2013-10-15 01:02:44 PM

Nutsac_Jim: Heliovdrake: make me some tea: So, basically they are going to monkey around with the funding for ACA, turning a fully funded system into a partially funded system. WINNING

They are very worried that the ACA will work, and people will like it.

Nope.  They are worried it will suck, but that people grow to accept a shiat sandwich, because well, it is a free shiat sandwich.  People will line up for hours or days for something they deem is 'theirs'.  It doesnt matter if it sucks or if they even want it.

Much like a beaten girlfriend, they keep hanging around the asshole because they tell themselves a shiatty boyfriend is somehow better than no boyfriend.


How is it free when everyone is required by law to buy insurance?
 
2013-10-15 01:04:40 PM

Nutsac_Jim: Heliovdrake: make me some tea: So, basically they are going to monkey around with the funding for ACA, turning a fully funded system into a partially funded system. WINNING

They are very worried that the ACA will work, and people will like it.

Nope.  They are worried it will suck, but that people grow to accept a shiat sandwich, because well, it is a free shiat sandwich.  People will line up for hours or days for something they deem is 'theirs'.  It doesnt matter if it sucks or if they even want it.

Much like a beaten girlfriend, they keep hanging around the asshole because they tell themselves a shiatty boyfriend is somehow better than no boyfriend.


I think this might possibly be the stupidest thing I have read all week that wasn't an obvious troll.
 
2013-10-15 01:05:46 PM

Infernalist: How is it free when everyone is required by law to buy insurance?


Because well, it is a free shiat sandwich you have to buy first. But after you bought it, it's free, or something.
 
2013-10-15 01:05:57 PM

Nutsac_Jim: Heliovdrake: make me some tea: So, basically they are going to monkey around with the funding for ACA, turning a fully funded system into a partially funded system. WINNING

They are very worried that the ACA will work, and people will like it.

Nope.  They are worried it will suck, but that people grow to accept a shiat sandwich, because well, it is a free shiat sandwich.  People will line up for hours or days for something they deem is 'theirs'.  It doesnt matter if it sucks or if they even want it.

Much like a beaten girlfriend, they keep hanging around the asshole because they tell themselves a shiatty boyfriend is somehow better than no boyfriend.


This is possibly the dumbest post in the entire thread, and show thats you have no understand of how the ACA works, let alone insurance or healthcare.
 
2013-10-15 01:06:12 PM

George Babbitt: nekom: I want poor people to have better access to health insurance.  I was told that this makes me worse than Hitler.

I can't afford $60 copay to my primary physician and $5000/year deductible all for the cost of $175/month in premiums for Bronze level coverage. WAAAAA Obamacare sucks because I get insurance from my employer. Or, WAAAAAAAA Obamacare sucks because I can totally afford to spend $450 to cover my wife and four kids!


favorited: Thinks $450 to insure a family of 6 is too much
 
2013-10-15 01:06:12 PM

Nutsac_Jim: Heliovdrake: make me some tea: So, basically they are going to monkey around with the funding for ACA, turning a fully funded system into a partially funded system. WINNING

They are very worried that the ACA will work, and people will like it.

Nope.  They are worried it will suck, but that people grow to accept a shiat sandwich, because well, it is a free shiat sandwich.  People will line up for hours or days for something they deem is 'theirs'.  It doesnt matter if it sucks or if they even want it.

Much like a beaten girlfriend, they keep hanging around the asshole because they tell themselves a shiatty boyfriend is somehow better than no boyfriend.


That's a little off.

The boyfriend isn't beating her. He's a doctor tending to her wounds, and she's screaming "socialism!" while bleeding to death.

/really? Domestic violence? You went there?
//no, I don't think Obamacare will be zomg awesome, but half my family is unemployed due to medical issues that we can't treat because we're poor. Obamacare is just about our last chance to get out of this mess.
 
2013-10-15 01:07:57 PM

Heliovdrake: Nutsac_Jim: Heliovdrake: make me some tea: So, basically they are going to monkey around with the funding for ACA, turning a fully funded system into a partially funded system. WINNING

They are very worried that the ACA will work, and people will like it.

Nope.  They are worried it will suck, but that people grow to accept a shiat sandwich, because well, it is a free shiat sandwich.  People will line up for hours or days for something they deem is 'theirs'.  It doesnt matter if it sucks or if they even want it.

Much like a beaten girlfriend, they keep hanging around the asshole because they tell themselves a shiatty boyfriend is somehow better than no boyfriend.

This is possibly the dumbest post in the entire thread, and show that you have no understanding of how the ACA works, let alone insurance or healthcare.


There, FTFMY
/ always hit preview and read what you typed 2 times.
 
2013-10-15 01:08:05 PM

Mike Chewbacca: Heliovdrake: make me some tea: So, basically they are going to monkey around with the funding for ACA, turning a fully funded system into a partially funded system. WINNING

They are very worried that the ACA will work, and people will like it.

Exactly. I realize this is anecdotal evidence, but I was able to utilize the WA exchange and find insurance that was better than the insurance we'd had to buy on our own last year that was $500 cheaper each month. Better insurance. Lower deductibles. No copays (versus $40 copays). $500 cheaper per month. And even though we're solidly middle class making more than the median yearly income, we'd get a subsidy to help us pay for the insurance (which is why it was $500 cheaper and not $350).

Please note that we moved to a smaller apartment to help pay for the insurance we had to buy on our own for 10 months. If we'd had access to the exchanges, we wouldn't have had to do that. Part of why we moved is we were on COBRA for a few months while Regence slowly, slowly processed our application. Took them 3 months and they made us pay for November even though we hadn't used any services and they hadn't approved our application until December. It was pay for November (on top of paying COBRA in November) or go through the process all over again and hope it doesn't take another 3 months. So they got $780 from us for nothing, plus we paid $1200 for COBRA. Nothing quite like spending $2000 for one month of health insurance when all you did was buy 3 generic prescriptions.

Meanwhile, retards keep telling me that Obamacare will be more expensive for people they know. The only thing I can imagine is those people they know are either lying, mistaken, or have such shiatty insurance that it doesn't count as actual insurance.


ask them what state they live in
states with ( R ) leadership aren't having as easy a time as they ought to
or they are lying, mistaken or have shiatty insurance too
 
2013-10-15 01:09:53 PM
YUP the pants are fully and truly on the house repubs heads.  and Boehner refuses to do what by now he knows he must do.
 
2013-10-15 01:16:05 PM
Why do people keep saying that the democrats and White House meet Boehner halfway?

Halfway between raising the debt limit or watching the worldwide economy crash?
 
2013-10-15 01:16:10 PM

George Babbitt: Mike Chewbacca: George Babbitt: Mike Chewbacca: Also, and I realize it's a bit too late for this, but maybe don't have 4 kids if you can't afford to care for them. Again, you're not prioritizing things properly if you can't afford health insurance.

We don't live hand-to-mouth and we manage just fine, thank you. We have insurance through my employer.(as stated many times before now).

You don't live hand to mouth yet you opened this conversation up with the statement that you can't afford $175 a month for insurance. You're either really dumb or full of shiat.

Yes, but what that buys is crap compared to the coverage we have now.


From everything I've read, I've been able to come up with one scenario where your assertions make sense when taken all together. That is, your employer is thinking about dropping your health insurance. That's it. It has zero to do with the ACA. Your employer may be ditching your health insurance and you mistakenly equate this with the evil health insurance act that's been in the news a lot lately. I guarantee your employer was paying a lot more than $175 a month for your insurance. Maybe you should be mad at your employer for pocketing that money instead of raising your pay.

If I'm wrong, please correct me, but make sure you give all the information this time. Or ignore me so I can rest assured you are a troll.
 
2013-10-15 01:16:28 PM

Mike Chewbacca: George Babbitt: Mike Chewbacca: George Babbitt: Mike Chewbacca: Also, and I realize it's a bit too late for this, but maybe don't have 4 kids if you can't afford to care for them. Again, you're not prioritizing things properly if you can't afford health insurance.

We don't live hand-to-mouth and we manage just fine, thank you. We have insurance through my employer.(as stated many times before now).

You don't live hand to mouth yet you opened this conversation up with the statement that you can't afford $175 a month for insurance. You're either really dumb or full of shiat.

Yes, but what that buys is crap compared to the coverage we have now.

But that isn't what you said. What you said was:

George Babbitt: I can't afford $60 copay to my primary physician and $5000/year deductible all for the cost of $175/month in premiums for Bronze level coverage.

So you CAN afford it, and you have insurance through your employer, so you don't even need to buy insurance on your own. So you're just totally full of shiat.

Meanwhile, folks like me who DID need to buy our own insurance last year would have definitely benefited from these exchanges. As I said upthread, we would have saved $500 each month and not had to have moved into a smaller apartment.


He doesn't care. He's got his.
 
2013-10-15 01:17:34 PM
Serious question:  Can we bring these traitors up on charges of treason?
 
2013-10-15 01:18:12 PM

Nacc: ginandbacon: Newsflash? Really?

Does this really hurt your butt that bad? Really?


Hmmm no. But  Subby wasn't pleased with it either. So why are you whiteknighting someone who actually asked the modmins to change his tag? Do I bother you THAT much? Get over yourself and put me on ignore if I cause you this much angst.
 
2013-10-15 01:18:40 PM

PsiChick: HammerMill: Please give me one example of a function that government has taken over and made it better, faster, or cheaper.

There are none.  While in principal the ACA is full of rainbows and sunshine for everyone, in practice it will be is a mess.

The public school system.

/Yes, really, go look it up.
//Same with mail service.
///And yes, you need to compare it to what was in place before those existed, not compared to what you wish you had in utopia.


Also firefighting.
 
2013-10-15 01:18:49 PM

Ctrl-Alt-Del: I think this might possibly be the stupidest thing I have read all week that wasn't an obvious troll.


and also a hit-and-run, from the looks of it
 
2013-10-15 01:19:40 PM

Mike Chewbacca: We were forking over $1200/month for COBRA, and then $780/month for insurance for two non-smokers


Insanity.  No one should have to shell out $14,400/yr for COBRA.  My dad is looking at COBRA (going to retire and lose his very good work benefits) and he's "lucky" enough that he can replace his house payment with a COBRA payment.

This is why reform is needed.  The system is just too expensive.
 
2013-10-15 01:20:25 PM

Prophet of Loss: How about we start a no Democrats, no GOP movement next election season? Its time to give some other political parties a try.


strange
I dont vote for a party, I vote for candidates who support my major issues (mostly equal rights and pro-choice).

you talk about other parties as if they are something real.
How about pointing to candidates?
Are there are political leaders out there, non gop/dem?
None that I have ever seen.

None that we ever will see.
 
2013-10-15 01:20:55 PM

generallyso: netweavr: To be fair, they're rapidly losing every major campaign contributor they have. So the consequence is the death of the Party.

Farkers have been declaring the imminent end of the Republican Party as a viable political organization since the first term of Bush 43.

[i.imgur.com image 402x358]


And here all this time I've been reading books and periodicals to help me make informed and intelligent decisions, when all the while I could have been derping doing like you can learning about the world from the funny papers.

id10t
 
2013-10-15 01:21:09 PM

obenchainr: KellyX: meat0918: darlid01: For my family of four, the cost will remain exactly the same since we get it through work. However, if I was to be working somewhere that didn't have benefits, it would cost $124/month for a family of four. Why? Because I live in MN where we were smart about it and MNCare is awesome.

I still haven't been told what our benefits are changing to, only that they have changed and are compliant with the ACA and at the bronze level.

The average bronze level plan in Oregon is less than what I am paying now though...

Deductibles are pretty high though... Here in FL I qualified for $99 credit, bringing a Bronze to $67 a month, but with a $6500 deductible... *sigh*

If you qualify for a premium subsidy, you also likely qualify for cost-sharing subsidies (which the calculators don't take into account).  That will lower your per-visit costs and such.


Where do you find that? The healthcare.gov site didn't seem to mention that.

I put in my last year tax numbers too, but I recently took a voluntarily pay cut for the last 2 months now, so I might qualify for better tax credit, but I don't know how to update that.

Thinking I might need to talk to one of the exchange people soon (if Rick Scott lets us)
 
2013-10-15 01:22:11 PM

KellyX: I recently took a voluntarily pay cut for the last 2 months now


wat
 
2013-10-15 01:22:20 PM

Detinwolf: Mike Chewbacca: We were forking over $1200/month for COBRA, and then $780/month for insurance for two non-smokers

Insanity.  No one should have to shell out $14,400/yr for COBRA.  My dad is looking at COBRA (going to retire and lose his very good work benefits) and he's "lucky" enough that he can replace his house payment with a COBRA payment.

This is why reform is needed.  The system is just too expensive.


Steer him to a health insurance exchange. There is absolutely no reason for your dad to have to buy COBRA coverage after Jan 1.
 
2013-10-15 01:22:20 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: Here's how the Senate proposal shapes up:

Republicans get: Income verification
Democrats Get: Delay of reinsurance fee

Here's the new House GOP plan:

Republicans get:

Income verification
Two-year delay of medical device tax
Version of Vitter Amendment
Ban on extraordinary measures

Democrats Get:

House Republicans are still demanding concessions in return for funding the government and not defaulting. It's the same hostage-taking tactics they've been using all along. Boehner and Co. have reduced their ransom demands significantly, which is why there is a lot of optimism that a deal will eventually get done, but it's still ransom. That's why the White House and Senate Democrats are vehemently against this plan.

Link


Is the Vitter amendment the one where everyone has to wear adult diapers?
 
2013-10-15 01:22:26 PM

Daraymann: Serious question:  Can we bring these traitors up on charges of treason?


Sedition, most likely, but Sedition requires that 'force' be used to prevent legislated law from going into effect.

If nothing else, the SC needs to be consulted before arrests are made.
 
2013-10-15 01:22:41 PM

Infernalist: NewportBarGuy: JerseyTim: House GOP members sang "Amazing Grace" together to start their meeting on a debt limit deal this morning.- Chris Moody (@Chris_Moody) October 15, 2013

We're literally 48 hours away from Mad Max times.

I'm increasingly of the opinion that the House GOP needs to be brought up on official criminal charges of Sedition.


I wouldn't give them the satisfaction of making themselves "martyrs" to the TP cause.  I'd rather see them and the TP humiliated on a national stage next year when many of the incumbents/nominees that pledge themselves to the TP lose by a wide margin.
 
2013-10-15 01:23:25 PM

Rwa2play: Infernalist: NewportBarGuy: JerseyTim: House GOP members sang "Amazing Grace" together to start their meeting on a debt limit deal this morning.- Chris Moody (@Chris_Moody) October 15, 2013

We're literally 48 hours away from Mad Max times.

I'm increasingly of the opinion that the House GOP needs to be brought up on official criminal charges of Sedition.

I wouldn't give them the satisfaction of making themselves "martyrs" to the TP cause.  I'd rather see them and the TP humiliated on a national stage next year when many of the incumbents/nominees that pledge themselves to the TP lose by a wide margin.


That's over a year away. And I can't imagine how much more damage these lunatics can do in that time.
 
2013-10-15 01:23:26 PM

bulldg4life: KellyX: I recently took a voluntarily pay cut for the last 2 months now

wat


He's probably doing it (along with his coworkers) to keep people from getting laid off or furloughed.
 
2013-10-15 01:23:44 PM
Tag team default champ
 
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