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(The New York Times)   For hardliners, a potential default on the national debt isn't a bargaining chip to repeal Obamacare; it's been the target all along   (economix.blogs.nytimes.com) divider line 517
    More: Scary, obamacare, debt default, hardliners, national debt, Niall Ferguson, repeal, humans, Mitch McConnell of Kentucky  
•       •       •

4044 clicks; posted to Politics » on 15 Oct 2013 at 1:59 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-15 10:01:40 AM  
That was a great piece. I don't necessarily like Bartlett but I have really come to respect him over the last few years. This helped me understand the genesis of the madness we are now watching unfold. It was especially interesting to have the Southern connection laid out so clearly. 

Sedition and treason. And we should impeach Obama?
 
2013-10-15 11:41:37 AM  
Huh, interesting.

I wonder why the defaulters feel the need to be so extreme and force a balanced budget right this moment. Canada made painful cuts to its spending and introduced a new tax and after a few years stopped running a deficit, and then began paying down the debt. That's ceased at the moment and we're running a deficit again because of the recent recession but getting back on that track is part of the plan.

So between never doing it, and doing it immediately, there's this reasonable road of doing it...well, reasonably. But will the defaulters accept the increase in taxes and HUGE cut in defense spending that is going to be needed?
 
2013-10-15 12:35:33 PM  

Barfmaker: Huh, interesting.

I wonder why the defaulters feel the need to be so extreme and force a balanced budget right this moment. Canada made painful cuts to its spending and introduced a new tax and after a few years stopped running a deficit, and then began paying down the debt. That's ceased at the moment and we're running a deficit again because of the recent recession but getting back on that track is part of the plan.

So between never doing it, and doing it immediately, there's this reasonable road of doing it...well, reasonably. But will the defaulters accept the increase in taxes and HUGE cut in defense spending that is going to be needed?


Nope.
 
2013-10-15 12:37:42 PM  

Barfmaker: Huh, interesting.

I wonder why the defaulters feel the need to be so extreme and force a balanced budget right this moment. Canada made painful cuts to its spending and introduced a new tax and after a few years stopped running a deficit, and then began paying down the debt. That's ceased at the moment and we're running a deficit again because of the recent recession but getting back on that track is part of the plan.

So between never doing it, and doing it immediately, there's this reasonable road of doing it...well, reasonably. But will the defaulters accept the increase in taxes and HUGE cut in defense spending that is going to be needed?


Not in a party where most if the members have sworn an oath to never raise taxes.
 
2013-10-15 12:47:10 PM  
I hope Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac make huge dividend payments to the Treasury this month, buying enough time to prevent a default, just so we can say "Fannie and Freddie bailed out the US government.
 
2013-10-15 01:02:46 PM  
When you believe you are living in the end times, you gotta try and make sure you're right.
 
2013-10-15 01:12:39 PM  

nmrsnr: When you believe you are living in the end times, you gotta try and make sure you're right.


RT @jwpetersNYT Issa says House Rs opened their meeting by singing "Amazing Grace" this morning. Are unified behind their new plan.

- Robert Costa (@robertcostaNRO) October 15, 2013


This is their Greg Stillson moment.
 
2013-10-15 01:14:02 PM  
I cannot believe that the GOP is willingly walking the global economy over the cliff just because a faction within their party is having a snit fit over a law that passes both houses of congress, a review by SCOTUS and they failed to repeal 43 times. I feel like my brain wants to ooze out my ears when I think about the disaster we are about to experience and know that this was done on purpose. That this was all part of the GOP plan for the country.
 
2013-10-15 01:18:09 PM  

Weaver95: I cannot believe that the GOP is willingly walking the global economy over the cliff just because a faction within their party is having a snit fit over a law that passes both houses of congress, a review by SCOTUS and they failed to repeal 43 times. I feel like my brain wants to ooze out my ears when I think about the disaster we are about to experience and know that this was done on purpose. That this was all part of the GOP plan for the country.


The punishment is the reward. It's the politics of sadomasochism.
 
2013-10-15 01:20:19 PM  
Once upon a time when the internet was young an ambitious troll named Drudge conceived of a plan to make Evangelicals spend their money. So he conflagrated fears about the Y2K virus with the return of Jesus and sold a whole lot of page clicks. When civilization did not end and the faithful did not get their Rapture it could only mean that they wernt pure enough. We sinners had done our part after all. Jesus had not stood up his personal army on their big date because of a lack of wickedness in the world. No. It was because they had not been zealous enough in their mission.

So they went into local politics with a renewed zeal, stocked up on armaments, and joined FB. They found ways to actually deprive women on their rights - instead of just complaining about it as they had done for decades. Now they are determined to make the world ready for Jesus. They think the US is the Second Rome foretold to fall just before Jesus shows up and they are determined to bring that about.

In the meantime Drudge has become a media powerhouse.

They are religious zealots. Stop trying to ascribe logic to their motives.
 
2013-10-15 01:21:38 PM  

sigdiamond2000: Weaver95: I cannot believe that the GOP is willingly walking the global economy over the cliff just because a faction within their party is having a snit fit over a law that passes both houses of congress, a review by SCOTUS and they failed to repeal 43 times. I feel like my brain wants to ooze out my ears when I think about the disaster we are about to experience and know that this was done on purpose. That this was all part of the GOP plan for the country.

The punishment is the reward. It's the politics of sadomasochism.


It does seem to come down to repressed sexuality with the GOP, doesn't it?

Anyways, I'm hoping that someone or somehow Cruz and the teahaddists get biatch slapped into silence and we avoid a default.
 
2013-10-15 01:29:57 PM  

Weaver95: I cannot believe that the GOP is willingly walking the global economy over the cliff just because a faction within their party is having a snit fit over a law that passes both houses of congress, a review by SCOTUS and they failed to repeal 43 times. I feel like my brain wants to ooze out my ears when I think about the disaster we are about to experience and know that this was done on purpose. That this was all part of the GOP plan for the country.


I hate saying this, but it's honestly not even about "Obamacare." It's about Obama.  They want him out of office. They're pissed as hell that they couldn't prevent him from being elected - twice - and they're pissed at anything he tries to do.  They have prevented him from doing so many things, but they couldn't stop the ACA, which has resulted in this epic, collective temper tantrum.  The thing is, if they DID stop the ACA somehow... they would just come up with another reason to not reopen the government and not raise the debt ceiling.  They want Obama out of office, and they hate him so incredibly much, they would burn this country to the ground, just so they can say "we told you he was bad for this country."

I really believe that's what this is all about.
 
2013-10-15 01:31:12 PM  

Weaver95: Anyways, I'm hoping that someone or somehow Cruz and the teahaddists get biatch slapped into silence and we avoid a default.


I hope you're right but...I can't help but shake the feeling that we'll do too little too late

/*looks to get his political campaign going*
//somedude210 for Congress '14
 
2013-10-15 01:34:30 PM  

serpent_sky: Weaver95: I cannot believe that the GOP is willingly walking the global economy over the cliff just because a faction within their party is having a snit fit over a law that passes both houses of congress, a review by SCOTUS and they failed to repeal 43 times. I feel like my brain wants to ooze out my ears when I think about the disaster we are about to experience and know that this was done on purpose. That this was all part of the GOP plan for the country.

I hate saying this, but it's honestly not even about "Obamacare." It's about Obama.  They want him out of office. They're pissed as hell that they couldn't prevent him from being elected - twice - and they're pissed at anything he tries to do.  They have prevented him from doing so many things, but they couldn't stop the ACA, which has resulted in this epic, collective temper tantrum.  The thing is, if they DID stop the ACA somehow... they would just come up with another reason to not reopen the government and not raise the debt ceiling.  They want Obama out of office, and they hate him so incredibly much, they would burn this country to the ground, just so they can say "we told you he was bad for this country."

I really believe that's what this is all about.


It would not have mattered which Dem was elected they would have pulled this shiat. I mean can you imagine if Hilary was Potus? Nah they are doing this because it is the only path they have left open to themselves.
 
2013-10-15 01:35:26 PM  

ginandbacon: That was a great piece. I don't necessarily like Bartlett but I have really come to respect him over the last few years. This helped me understand the genesis of the madness we are now watching unfold. It was especially interesting to have the Southern connection laid out so clearly.


Couldn't agree more about the article.  What is especially nice are the links to the source material encouraging debt repudiation (aka going into default).  It is stunning how much of their arguments are about historical precedent for defaulting and how little attends to the consequences of doing so.  Not a single mention of how globally connected the economy is.  Simply, "If nobody wants to lend to us in the future, that will mean we have to spend within our means."

Of course, in that world, war, natural disasters, economic downturns, infrastructure collapse, etc. must not exist.  Must be nice.
 
2013-10-15 01:39:17 PM  

somedude210: Weaver95: Anyways, I'm hoping that someone or somehow Cruz and the teahaddists get biatch slapped into silence and we avoid a default.

I hope you're right but...I can't help but shake the feeling that we'll do too little too late



How? They not only think they are right, they think they have some sort of divine mandate from their God in Heaven to do this.  How does someone back down or agree to something different when that is their guiding force? 

I have no problem with religious people, in general, but I don't think they work well in government for this reason.  They have their religion mixed into everything they do, so much so, that they cannot compromise or back down from a political position.
 
2013-10-15 01:47:42 PM  

MarshHawk: ginandbacon: That was a great piece. I don't necessarily like Bartlett but I have really come to respect him over the last few years. This helped me understand the genesis of the madness we are now watching unfold. It was especially interesting to have the Southern connection laid out so clearly.

Couldn't agree more about the article.  What is especially nice are the links to the source material encouraging debt repudiation (aka going into default).  It is stunning how much of their arguments are about historical precedent for defaulting and how little attends to the consequences of doing so.  Not a single mention of how globally connected the economy is.  Simply, "If nobody wants to lend to us in the future, that will mean we have to spend within our means."

Of course, in that world, war, natural disasters, economic downturns, infrastructure collapse, etc. must not exist.  Must be nice.


Exactly. It's stunning how reckless they are. It's beyond political irresponsibility at this point--they are gambling with the stability of the world.
 
2013-10-15 01:55:17 PM  

MarshHawk: Couldn't agree more about the article.  What is especially nice are the links to the source material encouraging debt repudiation (aka going into default).  It is stunning how much of their arguments are about historical precedent for defaulting and how little attends to the consequences of doing so.  Not a single mention of how globally connected the economy is.  Simply, "If nobody wants to lend to us in the future, that will mean we have to spend within our means."

Of course, in that world, war, natural disasters, economic downturns, infrastructure collapse, etc. must not exist.  Must be nice.


Realistically, how dire would the consequences be?  I grasp that it will be bad.  The recession has been awful for most of us...  but if the economy comes to a true grinding halt, and we lost the social safety nets, what happens?  Do people actually take to the streets?  Does martial law actually come into play?  I guess what I'm asking is: what is the worst case scenario, and are they actually creating a situation that they claim to have been terrified Obama would do?
 
2013-10-15 01:56:11 PM  
I would like to thank Republican voters in advance for ruining all of our lives, destroying our national standing in the world, and plunging us into a Depression.
 
2013-10-15 01:59:11 PM  
Some of them think they get to be Lord Humungous when the fall comes.

Some are just clueless enough to honestly believe the most powerful and complex economy in the world is analogous to Clete and Tammy-Lou deciding to cancel their membership in the Franklin Mint "Images of Dale Earnhardt" Commemorative Plate Club to set things right.

Some believe there's no need to plan because Jesus will, mid-nonbeliever-smite, just do the Samantha-nose-wriggle and give 'em a 1,000-room mansion.
 
2013-10-15 02:02:20 PM  
Well, yeah.
They don't care.

Either way, it's a win-win for these mental midgets.
 
2013-10-15 02:02:20 PM  
serpent_sky:
Realistically, how dire would the consequences be?  I grasp that it will be bad.  The recession has been awful for most of us...  but if the economy comes to a true grinding halt, and we lost the social safety nets, what happens?  Do people actually take to the streets?  Does martial law actually come into play?  I guess what I'm asking is: what is the worst case scenario, and are they actually creating a situation that they claim to have been terrified Obama would do?

Personally, I think I can live without finding out.  A default will likely be much worse than whatever armageddon Obamacare would supposedly cause.
 
2013-10-15 02:03:57 PM  

serpent_sky: MarshHawk: Couldn't agree more about the article.  What is especially nice are the links to the source material encouraging debt repudiation (aka going into default).  It is stunning how much of their arguments are about historical precedent for defaulting and how little attends to the consequences of doing so.  Not a single mention of how globally connected the economy is.  Simply, "If nobody wants to lend to us in the future, that will mean we have to spend within our means."

Of course, in that world, war, natural disasters, economic downturns, infrastructure collapse, etc. must not exist.  Must be nice.

Realistically, how dire would the consequences be?  I grasp that it will be bad.  The recession has been awful for most of us...  but if the economy comes to a true grinding halt, and we lost the social safety nets, what happens?  Do people actually take to the streets?  Does martial law actually come into play?  I guess what I'm asking is: what is the worst case scenario, and are they actually creating a situation that they claim to have been terrified Obama would do?


Nobody is really sure what happens if the GOP forces a default. This would be a deliberate and malicious "fark you" to the world economy. Best case? A slow and steady economic decline followed by political and cultural decay. Worst case? Blood, riots, chaos in the streets.
 
2013-10-15 02:04:24 PM  

serpent_sky: Does martial law actually come into play?


There are not enough martials to suppress the entire country.
 
2013-10-15 02:04:24 PM  
Lock the doors and drop cyanide gas into the chamber
 
2013-10-15 02:05:16 PM  
NO shiat.

They WANT this.

This is their defining, drowning moment.

To prove once and for all the government doesn't do anything good (except the military, gotta save that).

Farking nihilistic fascists.
 
2013-10-15 02:06:02 PM  

serpent_sky: Realistically, how dire would the consequences be? I grasp that it will be bad. The recession has been awful for most of us... but if the economy comes to a true grinding halt, and we lost the social safety nets, what happens? Do people actually take to the streets? Does martial law actually come into play? I guess what I'm asking is: what is the worst case scenario, and are they actually creating a situation that they claim to have been terrified Obama would do?


Worst case - Military outs the current government of the US and assumes full control of the government, institutes martial law and shoots anyone who disagrees
 
2013-10-15 02:06:21 PM  

quickdraw: It would not have mattered which Dem was elected they would have pulled this shiat. I mean can you imagine if Hilary was Potus? Nah they are doing this because it is the only path they have left open to themselves.


I do seem to remember back in the 08 election the crazy spiralling one-upmanship that was happening on the GOP side.  I was pleased when a moderate McCain rather than some of the other options was selected by the GOP, but they paid homage to the crazy rhetoric, and built it into their platform with Palin.  I remember wondering even then "What's their end game here? These promises they keep on making, what then? Where will we find any sort of compromise?"

And here we are.
 
2013-10-15 02:06:58 PM  
Someone else said this but:

I guess American hegemony couldn't last forever.
 
2013-10-15 02:06:59 PM  

Barfmaker: Canada made painful cuts to its spending and introduced a new tax and after a few years stopped running a deficit, and then began paying down the debt.


These clowns aren't even remotely interested in the debt or the deficit.  If they were, they'd have been happy to allow the Bush tax cuts to expire, for starters.  But "revenue" is a dirty word to these people.
 
2013-10-15 02:07:27 PM  

Weaver95: Nobody is really sure what happens if the GOP forces a default. This would be a deliberate and malicious "fark you" to the world economy. Best case? A slow and steady economic decline followed by political and cultural decay. Worst case? Blood, riots, chaos in the streets.


I actually just saw that the House is putting up a proposal that opens the government until mid-January and raises the debt ceiling through February.  So, even if that passes, this is all going to happen again in a few months?  It seems to me that constantly threatening to default every few months isn't going to do much for the United States' standing in the world.
 
2013-10-15 02:07:48 PM  
It always goes back to the Civil War.
 
2013-10-15 02:07:51 PM  
Carrying a cross and wrapped in the flag.
 
2013-10-15 02:08:02 PM  

quickdraw: It would not have mattered which Dem was elected they would have pulled this shiat. I mean can you imagine if Hilary was Potus? Nah they are doing this because it is the only path they have left open to themselves.


Well but they have only one path now because they went so far down the Blah/Birther path to begin with. You're right about Hillary, it probably would have been just as bad, but if, say, Edwards or Biden had somehow ended up as the nominee, there would be derp, but not at these historic levels.
 
2013-10-15 02:08:16 PM  

HMS_Blinkin: Barfmaker: Canada made painful cuts to its spending and introduced a new tax and after a few years stopped running a deficit, and then began paying down the debt.

These clowns aren't even remotely interested in the debt or the deficit.  If they were, they'd have been happy to allow the Bush tax cuts to expire, for starters.  But "revenue" is a dirty word to these people.


Their sole goal is the destruction of the US government and allowing the 50 states to become independent political entities
 
2013-10-15 02:08:30 PM  

serpent_sky: I actually just saw that the House is putting up a proposal that opens the government until mid-January and raises the debt ceiling through February. So, even if that passes, this is all going to happen again in a few months? It seems to me that constantly threatening to default every few months isn't going to do much for the United States' standing in the world.


It has a poison pill in it: taking away the subsidies to the lawmakers and their staff.  Lawmakers I can agree with, but staffers who may need them I don't.
 
2013-10-15 02:09:26 PM  

meat0918: NO shiat.

They WANT this.


It's been their goal all along.  The reasons are varied---I tend to disagree with the author that it's some effort to rein in spending, and instead I think they just want to crash the economy to make Obama look bad---but it really doesn't matter.  They want the US to default.
 
2013-10-15 02:09:43 PM  

DarnoKonrad: It always goes back to the Civil War.


Yep.
Lincoln and Grant were too kind.
 
2013-10-15 02:09:56 PM  

gulogulo: quickdraw: It would not have mattered which Dem was elected they would have pulled this shiat. I mean can you imagine if Hilary was Potus? Nah they are doing this because it is the only path they have left open to themselves.

I do seem to remember back in the 08 election the crazy spiralling one-upmanship that was happening on the GOP side.  I was pleased when a moderate McCain rather than some of the other options was selected by the GOP, but they paid homage to the crazy rhetoric, and built it into their platform with Palin.  I remember wondering even then "What's their end game here? These promises they keep on making, what then? Where will we find any sort of compromise?"

And here we are.


The 2008 GOP National Convention was frightening to watch.  I had a feeling then they had gone over the cliff and if they lost they would not be a loyal opposition.
 
2013-10-15 02:10:26 PM  

sigdiamond2000: nmrsnr: When you believe you are living in the end times, you gotta try and make sure you're right.

RT @jwpetersNYT Issa says House Rs opened their meeting by singing "Amazing Grace" this morning. Are unified behind their new plan.- Robert Costa (@robertcostaNRO) October 15, 2013

This is their Greg Stillson moment.


Oh my farking god... the House R's did NOT open their meeting by singing "Amazing Grace."  THE PROTESTERS FROM MY CHURCH (and several others) WHO WERE MARCHING THROUGH THE HALLS SANG AMAZING GRACE.

Issa is ALWAYS full of shiat, but this is a new low.
 
2013-10-15 02:10:33 PM  

Weaver95: I cannot believe that the GOP is willingly walking the global economy over the cliff just because a faction within their party is having a snit fit over a law that passes both houses of congress, a review by SCOTUS and they failed to repeal 43 times. I feel like my brain wants to ooze out my ears when I think about the disaster we are about to experience and know that this was done on purpose. That this was all part of the GOP plan for the country.


Weaver -

   let me say, I have enjoyed your posts for a long time -

   you do know this isn't JUST about a snit fit over the ACA - it may have started as a "back-room plan" to hold a line in the budget sand to kill "obamacare" but the tea people never had any intention of negotiation. what makes my brain leak out of my ears is they refuse to acknowledge - to accept - "global fiscal impact"
   this is the first time i've ever been frightened for my country's future
   what keeps my brains in my skull is sheer curiosity over Boehner - and what the hell is wrong with him
 
2013-10-15 02:10:47 PM  

serpent_sky: Weaver95: Nobody is really sure what happens if the GOP forces a default. This would be a deliberate and malicious "fark you" to the world economy. Best case? A slow and steady economic decline followed by political and cultural decay. Worst case? Blood, riots, chaos in the streets.

I actually just saw that the House is putting up a proposal that opens the government until mid-January and raises the debt ceiling through February.  So, even if that passes, this is all going to happen again in a few months?  It seems to me that constantly threatening to default every few months isn't going to do much for the United States' standing in the world.


Their original proposal appears to not have achieved enough support among the GOP caucus to guarantee its passage.

They plan to make their proposal even more unpalatable to the Senate and leave town immediately after the vote so as to push the Senate to accept their plan or "cause a default."

If this is not treasonous behavior, then there is no such thing as treason.
 
2013-10-15 02:10:47 PM  

Lost Thought 00: Their sole goal is the destruction of the US government and allowing the 50 states to become independent political entities


Nah, I still think it's about punishing us for having the nerve to elect Obama (again!).  The 'bagger reps like their cushy jobs and high paychecks, and that would all go away if they blew up the federal government.  They just want to scare us into voting republican.
 
2013-10-15 02:10:54 PM  

Lost Thought 00: Their sole goal is the destruction of the US government and allowing the 50 states to become independent political entities


Civil War do-over?

Lets go.
Bring it, a-holes.
 
2013-10-15 02:10:58 PM  
I'd love it if we could come up with some kind of precedent where the personal assets of the tea party congressmen would be seized to repay US obligations in the event of default.  Even the threat of such lawsuits would cause a huried stand down.
 
2013-10-15 02:11:53 PM  

quickdraw: serpent_sky: Weaver95: I cannot believe that the GOP is willingly walking the global economy over the cliff just because a faction within their party is having a snit fit over a law that passes both houses of congress, a review by SCOTUS and they failed to repeal 43 times. I feel like my brain wants to ooze out my ears when I think about the disaster we are about to experience and know that this was done on purpose. That this was all part of the GOP plan for the country.

I hate saying this, but it's honestly not even about "Obamacare." It's about Obama.  They want him out of office. They're pissed as hell that they couldn't prevent him from being elected - twice - and they're pissed at anything he tries to do.  They have prevented him from doing so many things, but they couldn't stop the ACA, which has resulted in this epic, collective temper tantrum.  The thing is, if they DID stop the ACA somehow... they would just come up with another reason to not reopen the government and not raise the debt ceiling.  They want Obama out of office, and they hate him so incredibly much, they would burn this country to the ground, just so they can say "we told you he was bad for this country."

I really believe that's what this is all about.

It would not have mattered which Dem was elected they would have pulled this shiat. I mean can you imagine if Hilary was Potus? Nah they are doing this because it is the only path they have left open to themselves.


They would have had an easier time with Hillary.  They have 20 years of made up crap on her they were willing to unload.  But then she lost and they lost...to a Ni-BONG.  And I think that was the last straw.
 
2013-10-15 02:12:01 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: I would like to thank Republican voters in advance for ruining all of our lives, destroying our national standing in the world, and plunging us into a Depression.


Indeed - any financial gurus have some last minute tips for 401K allocations? I'm assuming stocks are bad and bonds are bad - where does the safe money go?
 
2013-10-15 02:12:10 PM  

Weaver95: serpent_sky: Realistically, how dire would the consequences be?  I grasp that it will be bad.  The recession has been awful for most of us...  but if the economy comes to a true grinding halt, and we lost the social safety nets, what happens?  Do people actually take to the streets?  Does martial law actually come into play?  I guess what I'm asking is: what is the worst case scenario, and are they actually creating a situation that they claim to have been terrified Obama would do?

Nobody is really sure what happens if the GOP forces a default. This would be a deliberate and malicious "fark you" to the world economy. Best case? A slow and steady economic decline followed by political and cultural decay. Worst case? Blood, riots, chaos in the streets.


Basically, yeah.  It's been described as Here Be Dragons territory, and that seems pretty accurate.  There are so many potentially bad outcomes, all happening at once, that even if maybe half of them actually come true, the second-order effects themselves become unpredictable.  There's a lot of "normally if x fails, y can cover for it in the short term; but if y fails at the same time, x and y together combine to also overload z..."

My main worry is this: a lot of the country lives from check-to-check.  A lot of those checks ultimately come either from the government, or a section of the economy sensitively dependent on it.  A true default means finding out exactly how many meals away from barbarism we really are.  We may not like the answer.
 
2013-10-15 02:12:42 PM  
In 1992, the libertarian economist Murray Rothbard wrote an essay supporting debt repudiation, saying, "Why should we, struggling American citizens of today, be bound by debts created by a past ruling elite who contracted these debts at our expense?"


Hahahahaha, farking hell. Libertarians are stupid.
 
2013-10-15 02:12:55 PM  

Serious Black: They plan to make their proposal even more unpalatable to the Senate and leave town immediately after the vote so as to push the Senate to accept their plan or "cause a default."

If this is not treasonous behavior, then there is no such thing as treason.


Holy shiat, if they actually try to leave Washington, they should all be stopped, arrested, and flown back.  If they don't do something (that the senate will pass) in 12 hours, send 'em to GITMO.
 
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