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(LiveLeak)   [chuckles] That's not a gun. THAT'S a gun (language Not safe for work)   (liveleak.com) divider line 18
    More: Spiffy, Chuckles, uss arizona, WWII Memorial, Missouri, uss  
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6365 clicks; posted to Video » on 15 Oct 2013 at 8:42 AM (27 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-15 10:06:20 AM
Off the coast of Kuwait some years back, I stood on the deck of my ship and watched the USS Wisconsin fire her 16 inch guns. Although we were about 1/2 mile away I was totally unprepared for the concussion and the way my clothes were pressed against my body.

They don't build them like that anymore.
 
2013-10-15 10:28:23 AM
A gun from the ...  Arizona?  Did someone use the .gov shutdown to dive on the memorial & salvage some souvenirs?

/wow, seeing the two of them on a flatbed snaps it into scale just how farking BIG those beauties are.
//sad that any of the barrels are being cut up for scrap, they'd make great memorials all around the country & also serve as a reminder of what sea power was made of before the age of the carrier.
 
2013-10-15 10:48:15 AM

Recoil Therapy: A gun from the ...  Arizona?  Did someone use the .gov shutdown to dive on the memorial & salvage some souvenirs?

/wow, seeing the two of them on a flatbed snaps it into scale just how farking BIG those beauties are.
//sad that any of the barrels are being cut up for scrap, they'd make great memorials all around the country & also serve as a reminder of what sea power was made of before the age of the carrier.


They would server as better reminders of why we should avoid building costly pink elephants that are obsolete before they are launched.  The Missouri was ordered in 1940 and commissioned in 1944.  Even by 1942, it was already realized that battleships were big, slow, vulnerable targets, superseded by the new technology of fast carriers that could pop up out of nowhere and sink them.  But there had been proponents of fast carrier tactics in the navy since well before the war, and every effort was made to silence them.  Because that just wasn't "how it was done."  It was only too obvious that, if they were right, the day of the battleship was over, but navy prestige was centered on rising to be a captain of a battleship.  Even during the war, the wrangling between the old school admirals and the carrier commanders was fierce.

If you read the history of the Missouri, you read that it "shot down four Japanese planes" and provided fire support during invasions.  Cruisers can provide fire and antiaircraft support, and aircraft from carriers can provide much more effective ground attack support.

The Missouri was a big beautiful awe-inspiring ship, and it was a costly error.
 
2013-10-15 11:20:06 AM
Kibbler:If you read the history of the Missouri, you read that it "shot down four Japanese planes" and provided fire support during invasions.  Cruisers can provide fire and antiaircraft support, and aircraft from carriers can provide much more effective ground attack support.

The Missouri was a big beautiful awe-inspiring ship, and it was a costly error.


No, I completely agree with all of that.  I was just woolgathering about how they, like a mast could represent the sailing era, could represent the time immediately before carrier aviation changed everything.  There was a park near me while I was growing up that had a Higgins Boat on a bluff overlooking the shore.  As a 10 year old it was great for climbing all over/in with my friends pretending that we were Marines storming a beach somewhere.  Then of course eventually some kid fell off of it & the parents raised a fuss about their snowflake bruising his butt falling off of it (even though we all did on a regular basis to begin with, & the cops got tired of chasing the stoners out of there (a nice high walled area out of the wind was perfect for lighting up...) & the powers that be came & flattened it with a bulldozer (this was back before it was discovered that nobody bothered to save ANY of the boats in a museum somewhere...).  I was just thinking that the barrels would make really cool static displays in most any park that had something of a nautical theme/was along the beach somewhere.  Certainly a better use than the few hundred dollars that they would get from scrapping them out.

Oooh, as thick as the walls on those beasts were, carve off big slabs of them & cut them up into blocks say 6"x9"x3" & mill special edition .45 frames/receivers out of them.  I'm fairly sure that the steel is of quality enough to handle a .45 cartridge going off seeing as how it was made to handle 16 inch shells... I don't know how much it would cost but I'd imagine the there are a lot of people willing to spend more than a few dollars to have a .45 made from the steel of a real battleship gun.

/there has to be something better to do with them than just scrapping them to make a car frame or something similar out of them.  There is plenty of scrap metal around for that, but those things are history that people should be able to touch somehow.
 
2013-10-15 11:44:13 AM

Recoil Therapy: Kibbler:If you read the history of the Missouri, you read that it "shot down four Japanese planes" and provided fire support during invasions.  Cruisers can provide fire and antiaircraft support, and aircraft from carriers can provide much more effective ground attack support.

The Missouri was a big beautiful awe-inspiring ship, and it was a costly error.

No, I completely agree with all of that.  I was just woolgathering about how they, like a mast could represent the sailing era, could represent the time immediately before carrier aviation changed everything.  There was a park near me while I was growing up that had a Higgins Boat on a bluff overlooking the shore.  As a 10 year old it was great for climbing all over/in with my friends pretending that we were Marines storming a beach somewhere.  Then of course eventually some kid fell off of it & the parents raised a fuss about their snowflake bruising his butt falling off of it (even though we all did on a regular basis to begin with, & the cops got tired of chasing the stoners out of there (a nice high walled area out of the wind was perfect for lighting up...) & the powers that be came & flattened it with a bulldozer (this was back before it was discovered that nobody bothered to save ANY of the boats in a museum somewhere...).  I was just thinking that the barrels would make really cool static displays in most any park that had something of a nautical theme/was along the beach somewhere.  Certainly a better use than the few hundred dollars that they would get from scrapping them out.

Oooh, as thick as the walls on those beasts were, carve off big slabs of them & cut them up into blocks say 6"x9"x3" & mill special edition .45 frames/receivers out of them.  I'm fairly sure that the steel is of quality enough to handle a .45 cartridge going off seeing as how it was made to handle 16 inch shells... I don't know how much it would cost but I'd imagine the there are a lot of people willing to spend more than a few d ...


I figured you'd be in agreement.  I grew up putting together more battleship models than I can remember.  It came as something of a shock when I got older and started doing serious reading, and realized that those symbols of American might were actually liabilities.  It also came as a shock to learn that the number of times those guns could be fired was very limited; as big and thick as they were, firing them put a hell of a strain on them.  (And one thing you, as a battleship captain, would prefer to avoid would be having one of your 16" barrels explode.  Might break the ship in half.)  I remember reading about the Bismarck, for example, and it had to pass on firing opportunities because the guns had already been fired x-number of times, and they couldn't afford to "waste" shots.  Not so much because they thought they would miss, but that the target wasn't worth it.  I wouldn't be surprised if the American guns had greater longevity--I think we were probably using better-quality steel--but they still had a limit.

The only thing I can say about making memorials out of those guns is that they are (obviously) HUGE, so it takes a pretty big area.  Not like parking an F4 or a Sherman on the VFW lawn.
 
2013-10-15 12:16:08 PM
This is how you blow somebody a kiss.
i3.squidoocdn.com
 
2013-10-15 12:17:00 PM

Kibbler: It also came as a shock to learn that the number of times those guns could be fired was very limited; as big and thick as they were, firing them put a hell of a strain on them. (And one thing you, as a battleship captain, would prefer to avoid would be having one of your 16" barrels explode. Might break the ship in half.) I remember reading about the Bismarck, for example, and it had to pass on firing opportunities because the guns had already been fired x-number of times, and they couldn't afford to "waste" shots. Not so much because they thought they would miss, but that the target wasn't worth it. I wouldn't be surprised if the American guns had greater longevity--I think we were probably using better-quality steel--but they still had a limit.


I seem to remember reading that they are only good for a few hundred shots. There are quite a few of these barrels strewn around gov't scrapyards because of that -- and because political interests insisted on the need to keep them in supply in the event that the battleships were ever put back into service (i.e. political pork).
 
2013-10-15 01:25:11 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Built-up_gun

Mostly understandable discussion of how such a gun was made.
 
2013-10-15 01:26:34 PM
Kibbler: The only thing I can say about making memorials out of those guns is that they are (obviously) HUGE, so it takes a pretty big area.  Not like parking an F4 or a Sherman on the VFW lawn.

I was envisioning it as a display along the skating path at Venice Beach or something similar (imagine most any movie set in LA in the past few decades & the path near the ocean that the assorted lovely ladies in very small bikinis are rollerblading along).  If it was at my local VFW's hall it would start at tne end of the parking lot, cover the whole thing & probably reach all the way across the road in front of it too (maybe they can set something up like a toll booth/road & use that as the gate, I'd like to see the aftermath of a car that thinks it could ram it's way through...).  Make a hell of a flagpole though... hmm, I wonder if I can get one from somewhere & do that.

***

One thing that I've wondered about every now & then over the years is what would have happened out in the Pacific 70 years ago if the Japanese hadn't managed to sink our battleship fleet at Pearl on Dec 7th (or only damaged a few of them).  The Navy was essentially forced into using their carriers/aviation as that was really the only offensive punch that they had left after the attack at Pearl.  If the Navy still had their BBs to play with then things probably would have been really different.  As it stood though they had to accept a whole new situation & way of looking at things.  You really have to wonder just how easily other fast moving ideas/changes in strategy that had a decent part in winning the war (forming of the Construction Battalions (SeaBees) to build runways on all the islands that were taken over, the aforementioned Higgins Boat to take those islands, etc) would have been received if the battleship admirals were still in charge of things & in charge of prosecuting the war.  The fact that they were using an extremely new concept (carrier aviation was what, at most 20 years old by then?) & that it was working made it easier to accept & try out other new ideas (CBs, Higgins, etc).  I have a feeling that things would have been much for the worse if the BB admirals & their thought process were still in charge at a time when we really needed a completely new way of looking at things.
 
2013-10-15 03:16:48 PM
Those should definitely give us an advantage during our frequent battles at sea.

Sink the Bismarck!
 
2013-10-15 06:12:53 PM
Did anyone mention that that is actually a rifle? Just sayin'
 
2013-10-15 08:58:29 PM

Chagrin: I seem to remember reading that they are only good for a few hundred shots.


General rule was bigger the gun, fewer the rounds before needing to be relined, but in the dreadnought era in WWI as I recall it was like 150 rounds for 13.5-15" guns before the dispersion became unacceptable.
 
2013-10-15 09:24:53 PM

vossiewulf: Chagrin: I seem to remember reading that they are only good for a few hundred shots.

General rule was bigger the gun, fewer the rounds before needing to be relined, but in the dreadnought era in WWI as I recall it was like 150 rounds for 13.5-15" guns before the dispersion became unacceptable.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-10-15 09:48:57 PM
 
2013-10-15 10:09:14 PM

vonster: Did anyone mention that that is actually a rifle? Just sayin'


But is it an assault rifle?
 
2013-10-15 11:44:39 PM
"How come yours is bigger than mine?"
"Genetics."
 
2013-10-16 04:14:17 AM

Recoil Therapy: A gun from the ...  Arizona?  Did someone use the .gov shutdown to dive on the memorial & salvage some souvenirs?


After the Arizona was sunk, what was above the waterline were salvaged or scrapped, the rest was left where it sank.
 
2013-10-16 04:30:26 AM

Recoil Therapy: Oooh, as thick as the walls on those beasts were, carve off big slabs of them & cut them up into blocks say 6"x9"x3" & mill special edition .45 frames/receivers out of them.  I'm fairly sure that the steel is of quality enough to handle a .45 cartridge going off seeing as how it was made to handle 16 inch shells... I don't know how much it would cost but I'd imagine the there are a lot of people willing to spend more than a few dollars to have a .45 made from the steel of a real battleship gun.


Count me in!
 
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