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(Sun Sentinel)   Guy gets stranded at the beach naked after his friend steals all his clothes, so he decides to run home nude. This being Florida, naturally a stranger shoots him dead   (sun-sentinel.com) divider line 326
    More: Florida, Hollywood, Hollywood Boulevard, beaches, clothing, nude, friend, Pembroke Pines  
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14669 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Oct 2013 at 6:00 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



326 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-10-15 12:07:44 AM  
Well the shooter did exclaim "I can clearly see your nuts!"
 
2013-10-15 12:15:42 AM  
He told detectives he was driving west on Hollywood Boulevard between 5 and 5:30 a.m. Oct. 6 when he spotted the nude man. He passed by him, then turned around and went back, he told police.

Oh for f*ck's sake. Call the goddamn cops and let them deal with it. Did no one learn anything from the Martin shooting?
 
2013-10-15 12:21:38 AM  

fusillade762: He told detectives he was driving west on Hollywood Boulevard between 5 and 5:30 a.m. Oct. 6 when he spotted the nude man. He passed by him, then turned around and went back, he told police.

Oh for f*ck's sake. Call the goddamn cops and let them deal with it. Did no one learn anything from the Martin shooting?


Besides, "You can get away with murder in Florida"?
 
2013-10-15 12:24:26 AM  
Some friend. With friends like that...
 
2013-10-15 12:26:05 AM  
If I saw someone running naked at 5:00 am I think my first thought would be to help the guy because some angry husband was on his heels.

Since when does streaking end up in a confrontation with anyone who isn't a police officer?
 
2013-10-15 12:27:07 AM  

Tarkus: fusillade762: He told detectives he was driving west on Hollywood Boulevard between 5 and 5:30 a.m. Oct. 6 when he spotted the nude man. He passed by him, then turned around and went back, he told police.

Oh for f*ck's sake. Call the goddamn cops and let them deal with it. Did no one learn anything from the Martin shooting?

Besides, "You can get away with murder in Florida"?


We'll see how stand your ground plays out on this one.  Normally I say, he's out of luck.  But then there is the guy who just got away shooting the next person he saw because some girls were picking on his daughter.
 
2013-10-15 12:33:29 AM  

Tarkus: fusillade762: He told detectives he was driving west on Hollywood Boulevard between 5 and 5:30 a.m. Oct. 6 when he spotted the nude man. He passed by him, then turned around and went back, he told police.

Oh for f*ck's sake. Call the goddamn cops and let them deal with it. Did no one learn anything from the Martin shooting?

Besides, "You can get away with murder in Florida"?


And apparently that 'proud' tradition continues.

FTFA: Laguerre has not been charged in the shooting.
 
2013-10-15 12:48:26 AM  
Penis envy. It's a gun thing.
 
2013-10-15 12:50:23 AM  
'Merica!
 
2013-10-15 12:54:12 AM  

fusillade762: He told detectives he was driving west on Hollywood Boulevard between 5 and 5:30 a.m. Oct. 6 when he spotted the nude man. He passed by him, then turned around and went back, he told police.

Oh for f*ck's sake. Call the goddamn cops and let them deal with it. Did no one learn anything from the Martin shooting?


This.

If I'm on the road at 5am, I have a hell of a lot better things to do than to get personally involved in a farking misdemeanor.
 
2013-10-15 01:03:33 AM  
He was arguing with his friend while on the beach, naked.

That must have been some argument.
 
2013-10-15 01:03:48 AM  
Time to kill everyone in floriduh.
Nuke it from Orbit.
It is the only way to be sure.
 
2013-10-15 01:19:44 AM  

Tarkus: fusillade762: He told detectives he was driving west on Hollywood Boulevard between 5 and 5:30 a.m. Oct. 6 when he spotted the nude man. He passed by him, then turned around and went back, he told police.

Oh for f*ck's sake. Call the goddamn cops and let them deal with it. Did no one learn anything from the Martin shooting?

Besides, "You can get away with murder in Florida"?


Heh, yeah. Though on second thought the cops probably would have shot him too.
 
2013-10-15 01:29:54 AM  
Well, I got keelhauled awhile back for saying that young women can change how they are regarded and treated by changing how they dress and act. Just in cast there is a young black kid left who doesn't get it yet, let me suggest that the phrase "naked black man running down Hollywood Boulevard in south Florida" should, maybe, set off a little alarm in one's head. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying that self preservation is also an important consideration.
 
2013-10-15 01:33:15 AM  

This About That: ust in cast there is a young black kid left who doesn't get it yet, let me suggest that the phrase "naked black man running down Hollywood Boulevard in south Florida" should, maybe, set off a little alarm in one's head.


But it's cool for white kids?
 
2013-10-15 01:42:26 AM  

Confabulat: But it's cool for white kids?


This About That: I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying that self preservation is also an important consideration.

 
2013-10-15 01:46:44 AM  

Tarkus: fusillade762: He told detectives he was driving west on Hollywood Boulevard between 5 and 5:30 a.m. Oct. 6 when he spotted the nude man. He passed by him, then turned around and went back, he told police.

Oh for f*ck's sake. Call the goddamn cops and let them deal with it. Did no one learn anything from the Martin shooting?

Besides, "You can get away with murder in Florida"?


oyster.ignimgs.com
 
2013-10-15 01:48:26 AM  

This About That: Confabulat: But it's cool for white kids?

This About That: I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying that self preservation is also an important consideration.


DO you want to live to die from old age? 
Or get gunned down by some wackjob?

Sucks, but esp in floriduh ....
 
2013-10-15 01:49:09 AM  

This About That: Confabulat: But it's cool for white kids?

This About That: I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying that self preservation is also an important consideration.


I still don't get it. You're saying people are more likely to shoot a naked black guy running down the street than a naked white one?
 
2013-10-15 01:50:47 AM  
Is there anything that won't shoot you for in Florida?
 
2013-10-15 01:52:26 AM  

Confabulat: This About That: Confabulat: But it's cool for white kids?

This About That: I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying that self preservation is also an important consideration.

I still don't get it. You're saying people are more likely to shoot a naked black guy running down the street than a naked white one?


Yes you do. If you have a point, make it.
 
2013-10-15 01:54:28 AM  

Ghastly: Is there anything that won't shoot you for in Florida?


Any action taken in the process of "being white" is one that you cannot be shot for.
 
2013-10-15 01:55:16 AM  

Rhino_man: Tarkus: fusillade762: He told detectives he was driving west on Hollywood Boulevard between 5 and 5:30 a.m. Oct. 6 when he spotted the nude man. He passed by him, then turned around and went back, he told police.

Oh for f*ck's sake. Call the goddamn cops and let them deal with it. Did no one learn anything from the Martin shooting?

Besides, "You can get away with murder in Florida"?

[oyster.ignimgs.com image 610x374]


sigh
 
2013-10-15 01:59:21 AM  

This About That: Yes you do. If you have a point, make it.


My point is that running down the street naked is a poor idea no matter what your race, but you'd also not expect to be killed for it. Tossed in jail, sure, but your "advice" to black kids not to run down the street because of how it looks is just sheer nonsense.
 
2013-10-15 02:09:19 AM  

Confabulat: This About That: Yes you do. If you have a point, make it.

My point is that running down the street naked is a poor idea no matter what your race, but you'd also not expect to be killed for it. Tossed in jail, sure, but your "advice" to black kids not to run down the street because of how it looks is just sheer nonsense.


On the one hand, I think I should be free to do whatever the Hell I want. On the other hand, you should ordinarily try not to attract the attention of grizzly bears, piranhas, and racist idiots with guns. Ranting about how unfair and how racist it is encourages impressionable people to do stupid things in defense of doing whatever the Hell I want. Do you want to be responsible for the consequences? Sure, you can deny responsibility, since you probably won't know any of the victims, but you are still responsible. So am I. So, I'm throwing a post about not acting stupid where it will get you killed. Those who are inclined and capable can take on the dangerous animals and dangerous idiots, but these already know who they are. For the rest of us, not acting the fool is generally better.
 
2013-10-15 02:13:38 AM  

Confabulat: This About That: Yes you do. If you have a point, make it.

My point is that running down the street naked is a poor idea no matter what your race, but you'd also not expect to be killed for it. Tossed in jail, sure, but your "advice" to black kids not to run down the street because of how it looks is just sheer nonsense.


And another thing. What is it with the feigned indignity. You quoted me as advising a black kid not to run down the street. Utter bullshiat. I said that a black kid running down the main drag in south Florida is asking for trouble. Do you think anyone here has failed to notice you misquoting me to cover up the fact that you have little to say?
 
2013-10-15 02:14:14 AM  
Naked. I also said naked.
 
2013-10-15 02:17:33 AM  

Confabulat: This About That: Confabulat: But it's cool for white kids?

This About That: I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying that self preservation is also an important consideration.

I still don't get it. You're saying people are more likely to shoot a naked black guy running down the street than a naked white one?


To be fair, in Florida, you're 6x more likely to get shot if you're black than if you're white in general.

Still, I do think in this case 'naked' overrules race.
 
2013-10-15 02:31:21 AM  

Ghastly: Is there anything that won't shoot you for in Florida?


Shooting. They won't shoot you for shooting.
 
2013-10-15 02:38:14 AM  
I don't get it. If I see some naked dude running down the road I'm going to give him a couple cheers "woo no pants!", honk the horn a few times, and hope he doesn't wind up on a sex offender registry.
 
2013-10-15 03:31:02 AM  

violentsalvation: I don't get it. If I see some naked dude running down the road I'm going to give him a couple cheers "woo no pants!", honk the horn a few times, and hope he doesn't wind up on a sex offender registry.


This.  It's just farkin' nudity when all you're doing is streaking.
 
2013-10-15 05:24:17 AM  

fusillade762: He told detectives he was driving west on Hollywood Boulevard between 5 and 5:30 a.m. Oct. 6 when he spotted the nude man. He passed by him, then turned around and went back, he told police.

Oh for f*ck's sake. Call the goddamn cops and let them deal with it. Did no one learn anything from the Martin shooting?


The guy drove past, interest piqued, he came back around and offers Naked Man a ride.  Thankful Naked Man approaches and Driver propositions him for sex.  Naked Man becomes frustrated, lots of name-calling and get-the-f*ck-off-me's.  Driver shoots Naked Man, panics, then remembers that October to February is "Running Black Kid" season in Florida.
 
2013-10-15 06:04:00 AM  
Thank goodness that guy had a gun! Imagine what might have happened if guns were illegal and not so widely owned, this guy may have been forced to act more intelligently.
 
2013-10-15 06:08:01 AM  
I'm always baffled how in America somebody can shoot somebody and that person is not arrested just as a matter of course, regardless of the "circumstances", because it's a crime being investigated.
 
2013-10-15 06:09:20 AM  
So is the family of the victim going to hire some mercenaries to torture his "friends" several months before letting they die of exposure?  I'm assuming they'll use one of the deli slicers on their fingers and toes first.  And a hot iron on standby to cauterize the wounds each time they slice.  Once the fingers and toes are gone, they'll move to the limbs.

Then they cut off their noses and tongues.  If males, castrate them.  If females, hot hair irons into their hoohaa.

After a month or so of this toss them on the side of the road with placards stating it was so worth it to play that joke on their "friend".
 
2013-10-15 06:09:54 AM  

fusillade762: He told detectives he was driving west on Hollywood Boulevard between 5 and 5:30 a.m. Oct. 6 when he spotted the nude man. He passed by him, then turned around and went back, he told police.

Oh for f*ck's sake. Call the goddamn cops and let them deal with it. Did no one learn anything from the Martin shooting?


That was the point of the story where I started assuming the shooter was drunk off his arse.  Probably hasn't been charged yet because they haven't finished counting how many laws he broke yet.
 
2013-10-15 06:14:44 AM  
He passed by him, then turned around and went back, he told police.

Everything is my business and I must get involved!
 
2013-10-15 06:20:36 AM  

abhorrent1: He passed by him, then turned around and went back, he told police.

Everything is my business and I must get involved committ homicide!

 
2013-10-15 06:20:52 AM  
Strange even for Florida, indeed.
Jeebus mahoney, Florida...

/Some cracker must have instinctively tried to enforce the Fugitive Slave Act.
//Shooter has not been charged, of course. wtf.
///Shooter is 29 and named Duke Laguerre and lives with mom.
 
2013-10-15 06:24:33 AM  

Bungles: I'm always baffled how in America somebody can shoot somebody and that person is not arrested just as a matter of course, regardless of the "circumstances", because it's a crime being investigated.


Stand Your Ground laws make it very easy to get away with murder if there aren't any witnesses to contradict the shooter's statement (and considering it was 5am, there probably were no witnesses). As long as you say "afraid for my life", you're good. It's essentially a magic phrase that makes you immune to a murder charge.

This shiat is gonna keep happening in states that pass SYG laws. Honestly, I'm surprised there's not more of it.
 
2013-10-15 06:34:59 AM  

abhorrent1: He passed by him, then turned around and went back, he told police.

Everything is my business and I must get involved!




Its like that in smaller communities, and part of the reason they can manage problems in their own way. People don't ignore unusual things.

As for this incident, something seems to be missing from the story.
Snowflake punches his friend in the face, friend takes off with snowflakes cloths (because being nude at the beach all night is normal). Snowflake walks home nude, ends up in confrontation with curious resident (I'm guessing there's a few more punches involved) and killed.

The missing ingredient is probably drugs.

/I'm wondering if the motorists initial intention was to try and help this guy but he started to catch blows for his trouble.
/in retrospect the motorist probably should have called the cops,
/so they could do the shooting and everyone wins.
 
2013-10-15 06:35:44 AM  

Bungles: I'm always baffled how in America somebody can shoot somebody and that person is not arrested just as a matter of course, regardless of the "circumstances", because it's a crime being investigated.


ditto. also that seemingly intelligent people seem completely fine with that lack of investigation, and the shooting in the first place

there are certain conclusions one could draw but they're significant, so I hesitate
 
2013-10-15 06:35:59 AM  

Gunther: This shiat is gonna keep happening in states that pass SYG laws. Honestly, I'm surprised there's not more of it.


In all fairness, Florida interprets SYG in a very strange way in order to make this the case.  In most states, "stand your ground" just means that you aren't legally obligated to submit to the commission of a crime against you in order to avoid being charged with murder.  Vague feelings of unease and situations that you initiate yourself generally don't fly.

Essentially in most states it's an expansion of self-defense to include defense against certain other crimes, like robbery and sexual assault, where previously you could only use deadly force in defense against murder.  You'd still have to prove with the usual standards of proof that the other guy was, in fact, committing one of those crimes for the defense to apply.
 
2013-10-15 06:37:59 AM  

Ghastly: Is there anything that won't shoot you for in Florida?


No. We like it that way.
 
2013-10-15 06:38:50 AM  

Gunther: This shiat is gonna keep happening in states that pass SYG laws. Honestly, I'm surprised there's not more of it.


There probably is. But since it's white/white black/black murders no media outlet cares. The media just picked up Zimmerman cause there was outrage to be manufactured.
 
2013-10-15 06:39:35 AM  
So...why was he naked in the first place?  I get going to the beach after work, even getting your skateboard and cell phone taken by friends, not sure about all the clothes.
 
2013-10-15 06:41:11 AM  
...less than a mile into a 10-mile journey...

Well, at least he didn't have to run all that way, then get shot.
 
2013-10-15 06:41:22 AM  

JohnCarter: So...why was he naked in the first place?


People have been known to swim naked in the ocean at night. Or it was sex gone wrong. He's not telling.
 
2013-10-15 06:44:40 AM  

Confabulat: JohnCarter: So...why was he naked in the first place?

People have been known to swim naked in the ocean at night. Or it was sex gone wrong. He's not telling.


Fish Sticks?
 
2013-10-15 06:45:27 AM  
No need for a hoodie and skittles.
 
2013-10-15 06:45:29 AM  
"He was running naked, yes, but he had no choice. And knowing my son he would have forgiven the man who shot him."

Don't be so sure , he did kill me Dad.
 
2013-10-15 06:47:04 AM  

fusillade762: He told detectives he was driving west on Hollywood Boulevard between 5 and 5:30 a.m. Oct. 6 when he spotted the nude man. He passed by him, then turned around and went back, he told police.

Oh for f*ck's sake. Call the goddamn cops and let them deal with it. Did no one learn anything from the Martin shooting?


This. Let the cops shoot him... then it's in and out of the news cycle in one day, two tops.
 
2013-10-15 06:47:52 AM  
Sure Australians get arrested for streaking in public if caught, but we've never claimed to be the land of the free. Our constitution doesn't provide for particular rights or freedoms very much, and it's just sort of left that if there isn't a law against it you're possibly free to do it.

Just what are Americans free to do in the land of the free that is special? Running home naked would be normal behaviour in Germany.
 
2013-10-15 06:48:47 AM  

Gunther: Bungles: I'm always baffled how in America somebody can shoot somebody and that person is not arrested just as a matter of course, regardless of the "circumstances", because it's a crime being investigated.

Stand Your Ground laws make it very easy to get away with murder if there aren't any witnesses to contradict the shooter's statement (and considering it was 5am, there probably were no witnesses). As long as you say "afraid for my life", you're good. It's essentially a magic phrase that makes you immune to a murder charge.

This shiat is gonna keep happening in states that pass SYG laws. Honestly, I'm surprised there's not more of it.


Works for cops.
 
2013-10-15 06:51:38 AM  

Aussie_As: Sure Australians get arrested for streaking in public if caught, but we've never claimed to be the land of the free. Our constitution doesn't provide for particular rights or freedoms very much, and it's just sort of left that if there isn't a law against it you're possibly free to do it.

Just what are Americans free to do in the land of the free that is special? Running home naked would be normal behaviour in Germany.


We are free to rob the poors.
 
2013-10-15 06:52:35 AM  
Common fark he was black and naked. The passing motorist was feeling threatened. He had to stand his ground.
 
2013-10-15 06:54:17 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: Confabulat: This About That: Confabulat: But it's cool for white kids?

This About That: I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying that self preservation is also an important consideration.

I still don't get it. You're saying people are more likely to shoot a naked black guy running down the street than a naked white one?

To be fair, in Florida, you're 6x more likely to get shot if you're black than if you're white in general.

Still, I do think in this case 'naked' overrules race.


Being naked just makes it more obvious you're black.
 
2013-10-15 06:55:55 AM  
I'm sure the guy's penis moved toward him in a threatening manner. It being large and black the only thing left to do was to obviously shoot him.
 
2013-10-15 06:58:26 AM  

EvilEgg: Well the shooter did exclaim "I can clearly see your nuts!"


Nice opening, +1.  Now, on to the rest of the thread.
 
2013-10-15 06:59:05 AM  

GregoryD: I'm sure the guy's penis moved toward him in a threatening manner. It being large and black the only thing left to do was to obviously shoot him.



If there's one type of person who you should be terrified of carrying a concealed weapon - and reason enough to draw your own arms - it's a butt-naked man jogging.
 
2013-10-15 06:59:28 AM  

namatad: Time to kill everyone in floriduh.
Nuke it from Orbit.
It is the only way to be sure.


um that is what they are doing and you still compain
 
2013-10-15 06:59:39 AM  

JohnCarter: So...why was he naked in the first place?  I get going to the beach after work, even getting your skateboard and cell phone taken by friends, not sure about all the clothes.


He and his buddy get off of work, have a few drinks, maybe some other stuff, get out to the beach, meet some ladies, go skinny dipping, they get mad at each other over something which chases the girls off (maybe over a girl). Punches are thrown, clothes are stolen.

Or he and his buddy had a lovers quarrel with each other?

I dunno. I'm generalizing and assuming.
 
2013-10-15 07:00:06 AM  
The guy goes to the beach late at night with a male friend, ends up naked. Hmmm. Then they get in a fight, the naked guy punches his "friend" in the face, and friend steals his clothes. Then he runs home naked, and when someone stops to help him, he fights him too. Doesn't really sound like the angel the family makes him out to be. Not saying he needed to die, but not enough details.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-10-15 07:00:17 AM  
In all fairness, the naked guy was "pointing" at him.

If it's not "stand your ground" then it's "gay rage".
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-10-15 07:01:04 AM  

Bit'O'Gristle: The guy goes to the beach late at night with a male friend, ends up naked. Hmmm. Then they get in a fight, the naked guy punches his "friend" in the face, and friend steals his clothes. Then he runs home naked, and when someone stops to help him, he fights him too. Doesn't really sound like the angel the family makes him out to be. Not saying he needed to die, but not enough details.


Clearly he deserved to die.
 
2013-10-15 07:02:54 AM  

Bit'O'Gristle: The guy goes to the beach late at night with a male friend, ends up naked. Hmmm. Then they get in a fight, the naked guy punches his "friend" in the face, and friend steals his clothes. Then he runs home naked, and when someone stops to help him, he fights him too. Doesn't really sound like the angel the family makes him out to be. Not saying he needed to die, but not enough details.


so with more details there may be a reason he needed to die? 'some guy in a car' acting as judge, jury and executioner?

you should do away with the justice system, this is so much cheaper!
 
2013-10-15 07:03:25 AM  

d23: In all fairness, the naked guy was "pointing" at him.

If it's not "stand your ground" then it's "gay rage".


I would presume that an obvious route to investigate - even by the batty US state police - would be "Saw naked man, crudely tried to pick him up, naked man freaked out".

You know, like in a real country, where they'd swab his vehicle for the victim's DNA, to see if this was a hitchhike gone wrong.
 
2013-10-15 07:03:57 AM  

Bungles: GregoryD: I'm sure the guy's penis moved toward him in a threatening manner. It being large and black the only thing left to do was to obviously shoot him.


If there's one type of person who you should be terrified of carrying a concealed weapon - and reason enough to draw your own arms - it's a butt-naked man jogging.


But the large penis was coming right for him!  I'm sure he was wielding it like a billy club.

If he didn't shoot the guy he might have been labeled homosexual. What is a guy to do?
 
2013-10-15 07:07:15 AM  

Ghastly: Is there anything that won't shoot you for in Florida?


Voting for a Bush, as long as you're not black or latino when you do it.
 
2013-10-15 07:08:19 AM  

Lady J: Bungles: I'm always baffled how in America somebody can shoot somebody and that person is not arrested just as a matter of course, regardless of the "circumstances", because it's a crime being investigated.

ditto. also that seemingly intelligent people seem completely fine with that lack of investigation, and the shooting in the first place

there are certain conclusions one could draw but they're significant, so I hesitate


The cops COULD be completely incompetent, or just not give a f*ck.
I'd like to know if 1) they confiscated the firearm, and 2) there was any backup testimony as to what went on.

It's not completely unreasonable to let a shooting suspect go, if he had a reasonable story, and the cops take his gun; the cops know where he lives, and if he subsequently flees...suddenly, he's a MUCH better suspect, because he's acting guilty.  (Bonus for cynical cops, odds are, he's in another jurisdiction)

No idea yet what went on in this case; prior punching of friend by naked guy indicates either 1) he's not completely in control of his temper, or 2) his friend is even more of a jerk than just taking his clothes indicates.

Option 1 helps the shooter here, for better or worse.
 
2013-10-15 07:08:49 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: Tarkus: fusillade762: He told detectives he was driving west on Hollywood Boulevard between 5 and 5:30 a.m. Oct. 6 when he spotted the nude man. He passed by him, then turned around and went back, he told police.

Oh for f*ck's sake. Call the goddamn cops and let them deal with it. Did no one learn anything from the Martin shooting?

Besides, "You can get away with murder in Florida"?

And apparently that 'proud' tradition continues.

FTFA: Laguerre has not been charged in the shooting.


The guy should be charged.
 
2013-10-15 07:10:05 AM  

JohnCarter: So...why was he naked in the first place?  I get going to the beach after work, even getting your skateboard and cell phone taken by friends, not sure about all the clothes.


I'm betting skinny-dipping.

With a side bet on getting high.

Neither of which is a good reason to get shot, of course.
 
2013-10-15 07:11:25 AM  
Ok.... help a foreigner out here.


Surely "stand your ground" is a defense to present in court, or a reason for charges not to be brought because the prosecution services don't believe there's a chance of a conviction.

How on earth is it a defense to essentially not to do an investigation?
 
2013-10-15 07:11:49 AM  
The shooting may have been justified or it may have not been. The real question is why aren't the police saying what happened if they're  not charging the shooter?
 
2013-10-15 07:18:15 AM  
a.images.blip.tv

Now he has to do the challenge over.
 
2013-10-15 07:18:44 AM  

Bungles: How on earth is it a defense to essentially not to do an investigation?


Naked black man at 5 AM clause.
 
2013-10-15 07:21:38 AM  
Murder is legal in Florida, this is what the gun nuts wanted.

He learned from George and did it right, killed the only person that could tell a different story.
 
2013-10-15 07:21:45 AM  
Ever since that naked black cannibal zombie ate that other guy's face down there, I guess it's understandable they are a little defensive about that sort of thing though.
 
2013-10-15 07:22:58 AM  
RACE WAR!

Seriously.
 
2013-10-15 07:23:08 AM  

Bungles: Ok.... help a foreigner out here.


Surely "stand your ground" is a defense to present in court, or a reason for charges not to be brought because the prosecution services don't believe there's a chance of a conviction.

How on earth is it a defense to essentially not to do an investigation?


It doesn't say there is no investigation, just that he hasn't been charged...yet.
 
2013-10-15 07:23:54 AM  

Bungles: How on earth is it a defense to essentially not to do an investigation?


It's not that they can't do an investigation, it's that there's probably nothing they can investigate. There's a dead naked body with a gunshot hole in it, presumably no witnesses at 5am, and a shooter with a smoking gun who, if he has half a brain, will say no more than "He threatened me. I feared for my life".

With normal self-defense laws, that obviously wouldn't be enough to avoid jail - you'd have to prove you had a reason to fear for your life. With the way SYG laws are being interpreted, you don't; your word is good enough. Why we don't question the words of people who know they'd go to jail for murder... I don't know. You'll need to ask the gun nuts who get these laws passed.
 
2013-10-15 07:25:43 AM  

Bungles: Ok.... help a foreigner out here.


Surely "stand your ground" is a defense to present in court, or a reason for charges not to be brought because the prosecution services don't believe there's a chance of a conviction.

How on earth is it a defense to essentially not to do an investigation?


Investigation might be ongoing, the cops usually don't tell reporters everything.  Shooter starts bragging on Facebook about how he killed a guy?  Yeah, he's getting arrested.
 
2013-10-15 07:26:52 AM  

Bungles: Ok.... help a foreigner out here.


Surely "stand your ground" is a defense to present in court, or a reason for charges not to be brought because the prosecution services don't believe there's a chance of a conviction.

How on earth is it a defense to essentially not to do an investigation?




It isn't. But it's up to the state to bring charges.
Sometimes they consider it a cut and dry matter and spare themselves the expense of losing at trial.
 
2013-10-15 07:27:11 AM  

I-baLL: The shooting may have been justified or it may have not been. The real question is why aren't the police saying what happened if they're  not charging the shooter?


Hopefully, they're still looking into things, looking for other eyewitnesses, traffic cam footage, etc.

Or, just eating donuts and hoping something breaks.  Could be either one.
 
2013-10-15 07:30:03 AM  

Gunther: Bungles: How on earth is it a defense to essentially not to do an investigation?

It's not that they can't do an investigation, it's that there's probably nothing they can investigate. There's a dead naked body with a gunshot hole in it, presumably no witnesses at 5am, and a shooter with a smoking gun who, if he has half a brain, will say no more than "He threatened me. I feared for my life".

With normal self-defense laws, that obviously wouldn't be enough to avoid jail - you'd have to prove you had a reason to fear for your life. With the way SYG laws are being interpreted, you don't; your word is good enough. Why we don't question the words of people who know they'd go to jail for murder... I don't know. You'll need to ask the gun nuts who get these laws passed.


Sadly, there's a good chance this is accurate.

And Florida has already had several cases where gang-bangers basically walk up to their rivals, who they KNOW are packing, and shoot them...they say they "felt threatened", and basically walk, maybe with a minor gun charge.
 
2013-10-15 07:31:25 AM  
Police: Was the man armed?
Shooter: Yep. Had one hanging from each shoulder.
Police: Okay. I'll rule it self-defense.
 
2013-10-15 07:32:18 AM  

Gunther: Bungles: How on earth is it a defense to essentially not to do an investigation?

It's not that they can't do an investigation, it's that there's probably nothing they can investigate. There's a dead naked body with a gunshot hole in it, presumably no witnesses at 5am, and a shooter with a smoking gun who, if he has half a brain, will say no more than "He threatened me. I feared for my life".

With normal self-defense laws, that obviously wouldn't be enough to avoid jail - you'd have to prove you had a reason to fear for your life. With the way SYG laws are being interpreted, you don't; your word is good enough. Why we don't question the words of people who know they'd go to jail for murder... I don't know. You'll need to ask the gun nuts who get these laws passed.


Well there's a whole host of forensics that could illuminate the story:

1) Had the victim driven a distance in the car?
2) How close was the victim to the shooter?
3) Signs of struggle on the body?
4) Had the victim been in the car at all?
5) Has the car stopped and started more than once, leaving tracks?
6) Get the accused's exact breakdown of the escalation of the conversation. It'll have to be something pretty remarkable to not include some sort of catalyst (ie a spurned sexual motive)
7) What was accused claimed intent in stopping? Offering aid? Offering a lift? Offering clothes? Or looking for a fight?


And there's overarching one - what possible circumstances can a man in a car with a gun fear for his life when facing a naked man on the street,
 
2013-10-15 07:33:49 AM  
I'm guessing it wasn't that innocent. Maybe he was off his mind on drugs and tied to eat the driver's face off when he offered help.
 
2013-10-15 07:35:46 AM  
His head was in his stomach?
 
2013-10-15 07:38:23 AM  
At least he doesn't live to get slapped with a S#x Off#nder tag.
 
2013-10-15 07:38:52 AM  

FullMetalPanda: So is the family of the victim going to hire some mercenaries to torture his "friends" several months before letting they die of exposure?  I'm assuming they'll use one of the deli slicers on their fingers and toes first.  And a hot iron on standby to cauterize the wounds each time they slice.  Once the fingers and toes are gone, they'll move to the limbs.


They should reach out to Matthew Barnett, rapist (or so I've heard). I hear he has experience in these matters.
 
2013-10-15 07:38:55 AM  

Tarkus: fusillade762: He told detectives he was driving west on Hollywood Boulevard between 5 and 5:30 a.m. Oct. 6 when he spotted the nude man. He passed by him, then turned around and went back, he told police.

Oh for f*ck's sake. Call the goddamn cops and let them deal with it. Did no one learn anything from the Martin shooting?

Besides, "You can get away with murder in Florida"?


This.  I mean really, what else was anyone supposed to learn from that crap?
 
2013-10-15 07:39:10 AM  

Bungles: Well there's a whole host of forensics that could illuminate the story:


That CSI stuff rarely pans out in the real world, unfortunately.

Bungles: Get the accused's exact breakdown of the escalation of the conversation


It's America, he can literally just say "He threatened me. I feared for my life" and refuse to answer any more questions.
 
2013-10-15 07:39:25 AM  
FullMetalPanda: (creepy torture porn).


images.wikia.com
 
2013-10-15 07:41:24 AM  

Gunther: Bungles: Well there's a whole host of forensics that could illuminate the story:

That CSI stuff rarely pans out in the real world, unfortunately.


Car track analysis and swabbing for the car for DNA isn't exactly CSI.


I'm not asking for an interface in Visual Basic or anything.
 
2013-10-15 07:41:39 AM  
They shot Chaucer ! Those Bastards!
 
2013-10-15 07:42:42 AM  

way south: It isn't. But it's up to the state to bring charges.
Sometimes they consider it a cut and dry matter and spare themselves the expense of losing at trial.


exactly - they know how much the Travon bit cost, why would they do that to themselves again?  Budgets be tight, yo.   Don't like it?  Get the law changed - it's not the poh-poh's fault.
 
2013-10-15 07:43:10 AM  

Typhoid: I'm guessing it wasn't that innocent. Maybe he was off his mind on drugs and tied to eat the driver's face off when he offered help.


Well, it IS Florida...it could just as easily have been "the driver was off his mind on drugs, tried to eat the naked guy's face, and shot him for resisting..."

Maybe he likes dark meat?

/so very, very, sorry...
 
2013-10-15 07:43:36 AM  
 Aaaannd since he's black the shooter will get away Scott free.
 
2013-10-15 07:44:53 AM  

Bungles: How on earth is it a defense to essentially not to do an investigation?


They are investigating.

Not immediately arresting someone within hours of the reported shooting is not the same thing as an investigation, it almost always takes a week or two to bring charges when no one involved is a flight risk (people that claim self-defense generally are not).  Same as with the Trayvon Martin shooting, investigating self-defense claims can take a little time before someone is brought in over it.  They won't hold people under bond if they can get them to interview willingly.
 
2013-10-15 07:47:38 AM  

EvilEgg: Well the shooter did exclaim "I can clearly see your nuts!"


DRUM ROLL! You've been a great audience, thank you, good night!
 
2013-10-15 07:47:49 AM  
But my son is dead, and someone has to be held accountable.

Cherry said that friend told her that he and Jandei ended up at the beach after getting off work late Saturday.
They argued and Jandei punched him in the face, the friend told her. The friend then took off with Jandei's clothes and skateboard, he told her.



Hmmmmmm this guy sounds like he has anger issues. What if the guy went to check on him because, well he's running around naked maybe he needed help, Jandei gets into a confrontation and wants to fight him.
 
2013-10-15 07:50:14 AM  
"But my son is dead, and someone has to be held accountable."

And that's where you're wrong - you live in Florida.
 
2013-10-15 07:50:40 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: But my son is dead, and someone has to be held accountable.

Cherry said that friend told her that he and Jandei ended up at the beach after getting off work late Saturday.
They argued and Jandei punched him in the face, the friend told her. The friend then took off with Jandei's clothes and skateboard, he told her.


Hmmmmmm this guy sounds like he has anger issues. What if the guy went to check on him because, well he's running around naked maybe he needed help, Jandei gets into a confrontation and wants to fight him.


You also have to remember  that his "friend" has a direct interest in not looking like a dick for leaving his friend naked on a beach 10 miles from town.

He can't say "Yeah, it was a cruel prank" now his friend is dead.
 
2013-10-15 07:52:21 AM  

Bungles: You also have to remember  that his "friend" has a direct interest in not looking like a dick for leaving his friend naked on a beach 10 miles from town.

He can't say "Yeah, it was a cruel prank" now his friend is dead.


Well I don't understand why we automatically don't believe him. Every family member of someone killed this way says "oh he was such a good boy". If he was willing to punch his own friend in the face, is it far fetched that he'd get into a fight with a stranger?
 
2013-10-15 07:53:18 AM  
Ok, so if people are wearing hoods in solidarity for Trevon, does this mean people are going to start going out naked in solidarity for this unfortunate fellow?
Yes, MILFS, Cubans and college chicks of FL, drink a fifth and think that one over. ;-)
 
2013-10-15 07:53:30 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: Bungles: You also have to remember  that his "friend" has a direct interest in not looking like a dick for leaving his friend naked on a beach 10 miles from town.

He can't say "Yeah, it was a cruel prank" now his friend is dead.

Well I don't understand why we automatically don't believe him. Every family member of someone killed this way says "oh he was such a good boy". If he was willing to punch his own friend in the face, is it far fetched that he'd get into a fight with a stranger?


I'm not saying not to believe him, just to remember he has a vested interest here.
 
2013-10-15 07:55:01 AM  

Aussie_As: Sure Australians get arrested for streaking in public if caught, but we've never claimed to be the land of the free. Our constitution doesn't provide for particular rights or freedoms very much, and it's just sort of left that if there isn't a law against it you're possibly free to do it.

Just what are Americans free to do in the land of the free that is special? Running home naked would be normal behaviour in Germany.


Like everything in the US, it depends on where you are at. A neighborhood in Seattle has a naked jogger, everyone has seen him, AFAIK, no one has called the cops and he certainly hasn't been shot. We moved out of that neighborhood almost 5 years ago, and a friend just told us about spotting him the other day. And he's frequently in a park that has trails through wooded areas. My girlfriend would see him when she was out running the trails, said he just nods and says hello and keeps jogging. She didn't feel threatened at all.
 
2013-10-15 07:58:36 AM  

Bungles: I'm not saying not to believe him, just to remember he has a vested interest here.


Yes of course, just I don't think it's that far fetched.
 
2013-10-15 07:59:18 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: But my son is dead, and someone has to be held accountable.

Cherry said that friend told her that he and Jandei ended up at the beach after getting off work late Saturday.
They argued and Jandei punched him in the face, the friend told her. The friend then took off with Jandei's clothes and skateboard, he told her.


Hmmmmmm this guy sounds like he has anger issues. What if the guy went to check on him because, well he's running around naked maybe he needed help, Jandei gets into a confrontation and wants to fight him.


Clearly driving away wasn't an option.
 
2013-10-15 08:00:27 AM  

Gunther: Bungles: Well there's a whole host of forensics that could illuminate the story:

That CSI stuff rarely pans out in the real world, unfortunately.

Bungles: Get the accused's exact breakdown of the escalation of the conversation

It's America, he can literally just say "He threatened me. I feared for my life" and refuse to answer any more questions.


More importantly, that CSI stuff is expensive and departmental budgets would rather that investigators not investigate than have to cut their sexy SWAT gear collection.

It's still fascinating to me that people want "just ask questions" about the victim's beach activities.  Skinny dipping at night at a nude beach for (read the article for context) hippies and stealing a friend's clothes because it's funny are old hat.

Even if it weren't there are really no situations where a naked guy can threaten you in your moving vehicle.
 
2013-10-15 08:03:35 AM  

IamAwake: way south: It isn't. But it's up to the state to bring charges.
Sometimes they consider it a cut and dry matter and spare themselves the expense of losing at trial.

exactly - they know how much the Travon bit cost, why would they do that to themselves again?  Budgets be tight, yo.   Don't like it?  Get the law changed - it's not the poh-poh's fault.




Exactly, but even before the law the police and state were central to the other half of this problem.
The sloppy tag and bag that complicate the Trayvon case is the norm rather than an exception. Imagine trying to go to trial, while in the right, but the state has farked everything up from day one.
A lot of people were going to jail or being put through the legal wringer for protecting themselves. Especially blacks who couldn't afford justice.

The police should be doing a better job investigating these things but they use the law as an out. Without the law they'd just jail you can call it done.

Far from the ideal of "innocent until proven guilty" on one hand, we've now come to "innocent because we just don't care to bother".
 
2013-10-15 08:03:47 AM  

TheBigJerk: Gunther: Bungles: Well there's a whole host of forensics that could illuminate the story:

That CSI stuff rarely pans out in the real world, unfortunately.

Bungles: Get the accused's exact breakdown of the escalation of the conversation

It's America, he can literally just say "He threatened me. I feared for my life" and refuse to answer any more questions.

More importantly, that CSI stuff is expensive and departmental budgets would rather that investigators not investigate than have to cut their sexy SWAT gear collection.

It's still fascinating to me that people want "just ask questions" about the victim's beach activities.  Skinny dipping at night at a nude beach for (read the article for context) hippies and stealing a friend's clothes because it's funny are old hat.

Even if it weren't there are really no situations where a naked guy can threaten you in your moving vehicle.


True...but if you get out to offer help, or ask a simple question, naked pedestrian CAN threaten you effectively.

/would like to know if the shooter had any physical marks, bruises, etc.
//bet he doesn't...wouldn't be surprised if he exited the vehicle gun in hand.
 
2013-10-15 08:04:56 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Clearly driving away wasn't an option.


When you think someone is in desperate need of help?
 
2013-10-15 08:10:25 AM  
Zimmerman, the unhinged nut that shot a random bystander in "self defense" and now this guy.

It's becoming increasingly obvious that the only real reason to have a gun for protection is to protect yourself from all the people using their guns for protection.
 
2013-10-15 08:11:04 AM  
Explain how you see a black man running naked at 5am? Unless there is a TV Floating in the air you won't see him.
 
2013-10-15 08:11:07 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: HotWingConspiracy: Clearly driving away wasn't an option.

When you think someone is in desperate need of help?


putt putt putt

"Hey naked guy, you're naked. You ok?"

"Yes" and/or "F you man"

"Ok"

putt putt putt
 
2013-10-15 08:12:10 AM  
TuteTibiImperes [TotalFark]
To be fair, in Florida, you're 6x more likely to get shot if you're black than if you're white in general.
Now tell the rest of the story. For those -fark it, for ALL- shootings. What color is the shooter most likely to be.
 
2013-10-15 08:12:16 AM  

skozlaw: Zimmerman, the unhinged nut that shot a random bystander in "self defense" and now this guy.

It's becoming increasingly obvious that the only real reason to have a gun for protection is to protect yourself from all the people using their guns for protection.


There was that story about the CC tough guys getting in to a traffic dispute and murdering each other.
 
2013-10-15 08:13:22 AM  

OnlyM3: TuteTibiImperes [TotalFark]
To be fair, in Florida, you're 6x more likely to get shot if you're black than if you're white in general. Now tell the rest of the story. For those -fark it, for ALL- shootings. What color is the shooter most likely to be.


How many of the shooters were naked?
 
2013-10-15 08:13:46 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: putt putt putt

"Hey naked guy, you're naked. You ok?"

"Yes" and/or "F you man"

"Ok"

putt putt putt


That's the only way this could go down? That's it? Just that simple?
 
2013-10-15 08:15:32 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Tat'dGreaser: HotWingConspiracy: Clearly driving away wasn't an option.

When you think someone is in desperate need of help?

putt putt putt

"Hey naked guy, you're naked. You ok?"

"Yes" and/or "F you man"

"Ok"

putt putt putt


this made me lol for some reason.
'putt putt putt'... was he in a golf buggy?

/heyoooooh!
 
2013-10-15 08:15:57 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: HotWingConspiracy: Clearly driving away wasn't an option.

When you think someone is in desperate need of help?


Then you call the police like a normal person would? No sane person would approach a naked stranger at 5 AM unless he was expecting trouble.
 
2013-10-15 08:16:41 AM  

Confabulat: Then you call the police like a normal person would? No sane person would approach a naked stranger at 5 AM unless he was expecting trouble.


That's sad that your first thought would be this person is going to attack you.
 
2013-10-15 08:18:17 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: Confabulat: Then you call the police like a normal person would? No sane person would approach a naked stranger at 5 AM unless he was expecting trouble.

That's sad that your first thought would be this person is going to attack you.


I've spent most of my life in Florida and I've met my fair share of naked men roaming around in the middle of the night. Not a one of them is someone you'd want to have a conversation with.
 
2013-10-15 08:18:27 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: HotWingConspiracy: putt putt putt

"Hey naked guy, you're naked. You ok?"

"Yes" and/or "F you man"

"Ok"

putt putt putt

That's the only way this could go down? That's it? Just that simple?


Well no, it could have been another GZim tough guy looking for a conflict that he would never ever ever seek out if he wasn't armed and prepped to kill.

He could have just called the police as well if he was really concerned. There is no sensible scenario that ends with this guy getting shot to death.
 
2013-10-15 08:20:24 AM  
I find it peculiar that all questions/theories are focused on the victim, clearly Stand Your Ground is not a law that should have found it's way in to the legal system. It is effectively legalizing murder whichever way you cut it.

I have no issue with self defense laws but SYG is not that, the driver created the situation where a death was the outcome, SYG creates situations where people will die unnecessarily. I know it's Florida but why is this law not repealed immediately?
 
2013-10-15 08:22:25 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Tat'dGreaser: HotWingConspiracy: putt putt putt

"Hey naked guy, you're naked. You ok?"

"Yes" and/or "F you man"

"Ok"

putt putt putt

That's the only way this could go down? That's it? Just that simple?

Well no, it could have been another GZim tough guy looking for a conflict that he would never ever ever seek out if he wasn't armed and prepped to kill.

He could have just called the police as well if he was really concerned. There is no sensible scenario that ends with this guy getting shot to death.


this. anyone who says otherwise is just waiting for their own chance to mess up their fruit of the looms shouting 'stop running away or I'll shoot' and happening upon someone alone who doesnt stop. and is probably black.
 
2013-10-15 08:23:00 AM  

eurotrash: I know it's Florida but why is this law not repealed immediately?


There is no demand from Florida voters to repeal it.
 
2013-10-15 08:23:05 AM  

Confabulat: I've spent most of my life in Florida and I've met my fair share of naked men roaming around in the middle of the night. Not a one of them is someone you'd want to have a conversation with.


I don't know, my first thought would be this person needs help

HotWingConspiracy: Well no, it could have been another GZim tough guy looking for a conflict that he would never ever ever seek out if he wasn't armed and prepped to kill.

He could have just called the police as well if he was really concerned. There is no sensible scenario that ends with this guy getting shot to death.


Ah, see we all have our preconceptions about everything.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-10-15 08:23:20 AM  

kling_klang_bed: Ok, so if people are wearing hoods in solidarity for Trevon, does this mean people are going to start going out naked in solidarity for this unfortunate fellow?
Yes, MILFS, Cubans and college chicks of FL, drink a fifth and think that one over. ;-)


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-10-15 08:24:34 AM  

Confabulat: eurotrash: I know it's Florida but why is this law not repealed immediately?

There is no demand from Florida voters to repeal it.


Florida also has a literal criminal at the helm right now, too.

freakoutnation.com
 
DGS [TotalFark]
2013-10-15 08:25:51 AM  
If only he'd taken a Buffalo Stance, he'd have been fine.
 
2013-10-15 08:26:35 AM  

Confabulat: eurotrash: I know it's Florida but why is this law not repealed immediately?

There is no demand from Florida voters to repeal it.


Because for every 1 idiot that gets into an argument and gets killed, there are 9 others who use the law to its effect - in the case in my area 3 thugs broke into a house, the owner told them to stop and they continued to climb through a window - where the home owner shot the kid.
He gets off, the two kids that were involved got the murder charge for being there.

Its 3 am and three 18 yr old thugs break into your house, yeah you are sitting in a closet calling 911, no you shoot and ask questions later.
 
2013-10-15 08:27:11 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: That's sad that your first thought would be this person is going to attack you.


Or, you know, maybe some of us have more experience than you with random weirdos on the street and know that many of them have drug, alcohol or mental problems and the possibility of them attacking you is considerable.

I once watched a guy stand right on the edge of the sidewalk and unpack a (clearly stolen) briefcase for nearly 10 minutes before he started to fall off the edge. I pulled him back onto the sidewalk because he was basically playing in traffic at that point and the guy went ballistic. Fortunately his insanity was limited to him screaming weird "prayers" in my face. I don't think it was a gypsy curse because that was years ago and no strange maladies have befallen me yet, but you never know.

Point being, confronting oddballs on the street, unless absolutely necessary, is a good way to get yourself or them hurt.
People walking around acting strangely on the street have something wrong with them, this being the exception that proves the rule. Unless you're a professional, confronting them is ALWAYS the wrong choice unless it's the only one.
 
2013-10-15 08:28:40 AM  
Let this be a lesson to everyone: DON'T BE NAKED.

Commit a foul and heinous crime like not wearing clothes, what else can you expect?
 
2013-10-15 08:28:56 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: HotWingConspiracy: Clearly driving away wasn't an option.

When you think someone is in desperate need of help?


I like how in your rush not to judge you've already decided the dead guy was a violent monster and the shooter was a good Samaritan.
 
2013-10-15 08:29:09 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: I don't know, my first thought would be this person needs help


They probably do, but that's not help I can provide them at 5 AM. The police can. Therefore, I would call 911 instead of getting my face chewed off by the crazy dude on bath salts. Where do you live, exactly?
 
2013-10-15 08:30:30 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: Confabulat: I've spent most of my life in Florida and I've met my fair share of naked men roaming around in the middle of the night. Not a one of them is someone you'd want to have a conversation with.

I don't know, my first thought would be this person needs help


So you'd get out of your car and shoot him?

HotWingConspiracy: Well no, it could have been another GZim tough guy looking for a conflict that he would never ever ever seek out if he wasn't armed and prepped to kill.

He could have just called the police as well if he was really concerned. There is no sensible scenario that ends with this guy getting shot to death.

Ah, see we all have our preconceptions about everything.


Past is prelude.

And your ridiculous attempts at playing Devils Advocate here basically indicate you think the same thing.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-10-15 08:31:31 AM  

Misconduc: Its 3 am and three 18 yr old thugs break into your house, yeah you are sitting in a closet calling 911, no you shoot and ask questions later.


The obvious difference here, however, is there is ACTUAL DANGER involved.  It's a home invasion!

The naked guy running home doesn't represent actual danger... at least not the facts we know.  If the law can't distinguish between actual danger and "he needed killin'!" then it's a bad law.
 
2013-10-15 08:31:55 AM  
Are there any examples of stand your ground every being successfully used by a black person shooting a white?
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-10-15 08:32:36 AM  

Gunther: Tat'dGreaser: HotWingConspiracy: Clearly driving away wasn't an option.

When you think someone is in desperate need of help?

I like how in your rush not to judge you've already decided the dead guy was a violent monster and the shooter was a good Samaritan.


What the hell?  Did the naked guy try to viciously teabag the shooter?

The naked guy arguably had a weapon, but it was a weapon of LUV.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-10-15 08:33:24 AM  

Bungles: Are there any examples of stand your ground every being successfully used by a black person shooting a white?


idiotprufs.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-10-15 08:33:51 AM  

Gunther: I like how in your rush not to judge you've already decided the dead guy was a violent monster and the shooter was a good Samaritan.


By linking quotes from the article? F*ck me I must be crazy

HotWingConspiracy: Past is prelude.

And your ridiculous attempts at playing Devils Advocate here basically indicate you think the same thing.


You've already indicated how you feel about anyone defending themselves. It's obviously their fault, you don't need to say anything else
 
2013-10-15 08:35:20 AM  

Bungles: Are there any examples of stand your ground every being successfully used by a black person shooting a white?


oooooooh

/popcorn? it's Cajun
 
2013-10-15 08:35:41 AM  

Tarkus: Besides, "You can get away with murder in Florida"?


FTFA "Laguerre has not been charged in the shooting."
 
2013-10-15 08:36:15 AM  
Naked running guy probably tried to force his way into the guy's car.

That's carjacking, in Florida its an immediate death sentence.
 
2013-10-15 08:37:53 AM  

Misconduc: 1 idiot that gets into an argument and gets killed, there are 9 others who use the law to its effect


No, there's not. And the only study that ever showed that has been repeatedly and decisively shredded to bits in peer review.

Regardless, there is a distinct difference between shooting someone in the course of a home invasion and shooting someone on the side of the road after you stopped your car, turned around and confronted them.

A difference the law fails to recognize and a difference that makes it a bad law.

Very very few people have a problem with "castle doctrine" laws that allow you to shoot someone in your home if they broke in. Personally, I don't even have a problem with castle doctrine laws that allow you to shoot a clearly unarmed person committing a robbery in your home.

Only idiots, however, think those laws should expand to give you the "right" to shoot an unarmed, naked person on the street that you chose to confront of your own volition.
 
2013-10-15 08:38:04 AM  

Philbb: If I saw someone running naked at 5:00 am I think my first thought would be to help the guy because some angry husband was on his heels.

Since when does streaking end up in a confrontation with anyone who isn't a police officer?


When the naked guy ended up naked in the first place because he decided to start punching his friend in the face, and apparently decided to punch a motorist in the face as well, after the motorist had done exactly as you said you would have done (gone back and offered him help).

Apparently Cherry wanted to be the next Trayvon Martin, and got his wish.

/good
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-10-15 08:38:06 AM  

prjindigo: Naked running guy probably tried to force his way into the guy's car.

That's carjacking, in Florida its an immediate death sentence.


Oh yeah... there is evidence of that.
 
2013-10-15 08:39:35 AM  
There was a naked guy in Florida eating people a little while ago.
 
2013-10-15 08:40:04 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: defending


Shooting a naked person you backtracked to confront is not self-defense.

The argument you people put forth in these cases always rests entirely on the notion that there is no responsibility on the part of the shooter for his actions in the lead-up to the shooting. That's ridiculous. People with guns should be expected to exercise MORE responsibility, not be completely absolved of it.
 
2013-10-15 08:40:14 AM  
All joking aside, my bet drugs were involved.
 
2013-10-15 08:41:08 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: Gunther: I like how in your rush not to judge you've already decided the dead guy was a violent monster and the shooter was a good Samaritan.

By linking quotes from the article? F*ck me I must be crazy

HotWingConspiracy: Past is prelude.

And your ridiculous attempts at playing Devils Advocate here basically indicate you think the same thing.

You've already indicated how you feel about anyone defending themselves. It's obviously their fault, you don't need to say anything else


When and where did I say this?

BTW, your bleeding heart "I would have tried to help this nude citizen in danger" shtick is an obvious lie. You act like you've never posted on this site before.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-10-15 08:41:20 AM  

skozlaw: Very very few people have a problem with "castle doctrine" laws that allow you to shoot someone in your home if they broke in. Personally, I don't even have a problem with castle doctrine laws that allow you to shoot a clearly unarmed person committing a robbery in your hom


I defintely have no problem with castle doctrine laws.  The thing is that even with that there is an reasonable expectation of using the amount of force needed.  Just because someone climbs in your window doesn't necessarily means you can yell "he's coming right fer me!" and shoot in the head.

A naked man is a VERY vulnerable man.  Shoot him in the leg.  I don't have all the facts, but it sure sounds like it at least needed to be investigated.
 
2013-10-15 08:43:07 AM  

prjindigo: Naked running guy probably tried to force his way into the guy's car.

That's carjacking, in Florida its an immediate death sentence.



I there was a hint of an attempted carjacking, I suspect it would have been mentioned in the reports.
 
2013-10-15 08:45:05 AM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: Some friend. With friends like that...


... who needs enemas? {sic}
 
2013-10-15 08:45:12 AM  

Aussie_As: Sure Australians get arrested for streaking in public if caught, but we've never claimed to be the land of the free. Our constitution doesn't provide for particular rights or freedoms very much, and it's just sort of left that if there isn't a law against it you're possibly free to do it.

Just what are Americans free to do in the land of the free that is special? Running home naked would be normal behaviour in Germany.


We don't have really have freedom in the United States. In America, you're free to do as you're goddamn told to do, son, but not whatever you want.

And if you're doing anything out of the norm, clearly you're perpetrating a crime and you're going to be killed, either by a Righteous Citizen or the police. Once you're dead, then questions will be asked, like "Why was he terrorizing the community with his nudity? Why was he being black? We may never know, but at least our Morals (TM) are still intact."
 
2013-10-15 08:45:39 AM  

d23: Misconduc: Its 3 am and three 18 yr old thugs break into your house, yeah you are sitting in a closet calling 911, no you shoot and ask questions later.

The obvious difference here, however, is there is ACTUAL DANGER involved.  It's a home invasion!

The naked guy running home doesn't represent actual danger... at least not the facts we know.  If the law can't distinguish between actual danger and "he needed killin'!" then it's a bad law.


There is to many facts missing, for example this "naked" man got into a fight with a passing motorist - how does the motorist know he wasn't just involved in a violent rape? Why would he start a fight if he's naked and just trying to run home?
Martin was just going home too when he attacked someone as well, it didn't end well either.

It always has ACTUAL danger, how people view that danger is the problem - guns are not the problem, village idiots carrying them are the problem .
 
2013-10-15 08:46:51 AM  
Lernaeus:
And if you're doing anything out of the norm, clearly you're perpetrating a crime and you're going to be killed, either by a Righteous Citizen or the police. Once you're dead, then questions will be asked, like "Why was he terrorizing the community with his nudity? Why was he being black? We may never know, but at least our Morals (TM) are still intact."

it's what Jesus would have wanted
 
2013-10-15 08:47:03 AM  
Take note other states... this is how you earn a Fark Tag. I see you there, Texas; shooting each other over high school football. And hey, before March 3, 1845, that might have gotten you somewhere.

But until you're willing to watch a man running naked down the street, turn around in your car, shoot him in the stomach killing him, and NOT be charged with a crime, you're just not worthy.

timothykingcade.com
 
2013-10-15 08:47:03 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: When and where did I say this?

BTW, your bleeding heart "I would have tried to help this nude citizen in danger" shtick is an obvious lie. You act like you've never posted on this site before.


By automatically calling him a George Zimmerman type of guy

Are you stalking me?
 
2013-10-15 08:49:12 AM  

skozlaw: Shooting a naked person you backtracked to confront is not self-defense.


Confront? That's an odd choice of words for not knowing what exactly happened
 
2013-10-15 08:50:22 AM  

DirtyDeadGhostofEbenezerCooke: ...less than a mile into a 10-mile journey...

Well, at least he didn't have to run all that way, then get shot.


Coffee hurts coming out your nose, you know.

/+1
 
2013-10-15 08:53:36 AM  
Tox Screen or STFU.
 
2013-10-15 08:54:08 AM  
You know... Speaking as a white person.... Florida sounds like a really safe place to live. There's some comfort in knowing that my fellow citizens will confront and gun down crazy guy on PCP, or the 80 year old man next to me is going to light up the punks trying to rob us at the "computer cafe".

You can't lose your home to bankruptcy in FL either... Man what a paradise.
 
2013-10-15 08:54:23 AM  

Confabulat: This About That: Confabulat: But it's cool for white kids?

This About That: I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying that self preservation is also an important consideration.

I still don't get it. You're saying people are more likely to shoot a naked black guy running down the street than a naked white one?


Only if you are stupid and trigger happy.

Several years ago, outside Ft. Lewis (in Tillicompton, as we like to call it), I has an encounter with a naked black guy who was clearly strung out on something or other. Guy yanked open my truck door and started to reach in looking for... money? I was armed with my .40 cal (because... Tillicompton) and never even considered drawing my weapon--the guy wasn't even a threat in his condition. Grabbed his wrists, placed my boot flat against his chest, and pushed (rather forcefully) with my leg. Shut the truck, locked the door, and dialled 911 on the cell. Cops picked him up a few blocks away at the gas station across from Gertie's.

Generally speaking, unless he's been trained from his youth by someone whose surname is Gracie, a naked black man is not a threat and does not warrant a shooting... or even the drawing of a weapon. Then again, this happened in FL. No one expects the application of sense from anyone in FL.
 
2013-10-15 08:54:42 AM  
I'm sure he was just about to turn his life around, too.

/a lot of details missing from this story.
 
2013-10-15 08:55:35 AM  

GeneralSubliminal: His head was in his stomach?


This actually caught my attention - the man was shot in the stomach.  Wouldn't that be about eye level from a sitting position within a car?
 
2013-10-15 08:57:23 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: HotWingConspiracy: When and where did I say this?

BTW, your bleeding heart "I would have tried to help this nude citizen in danger" shtick is an obvious lie. You act like you've never posted on this site before.

By automatically calling him a George Zimmerman type of guy


"Automatically"?

I actually laid it out as a possibility when you asked if there was only one way it could go.

Are you stalking me?

You fall in to a special category of site members.
 
2013-10-15 09:00:39 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: You fall in to a special category of site members.


The kind you love and admire? Thanks, I'm speechless. I don't know who to thank first
 
2013-10-15 09:01:42 AM  

Raider_dad: "He was running naked, yes, but he had no choice. And knowing my son he would have forgiven the man who shot him."

Don't be so sure , he did kill me Dad.


What people say sometimes amazes me, but it can be eminently expository.

"He had no choice". Does she really believe that? There was no object anywhere to use to shield his nudity? Like it or not, there are laws about displaying your junk in public. He could have carried a plastic bag and simply covered up when the occasional passer by passed by. And does she really know that her son would forgive the officious intermeddler who shot and killed him? To the extent that she shaped his world view, mom's simplistic and flawed understanding of the universe may explain her busboy-unmarried-father-at-19 son's poor judgment that night.
 
2013-10-15 09:02:51 AM  
Sitting in the car waiting on something, I note that in my backseat is a trenchcoat that would allow a naked running man to cover up, and that my feet are still a bit sore from having walked far less pavement barefoot yesterday.

I also have rags in the trunk.  Seems like playing Good Samaritan would be pretty easy.
 
2013-10-15 09:04:33 AM  
From the 10/14/13 episode of Late Night with David Letterman:

Ray Romano:
If you're running naked as an adult, there's an agenda.
Something's going on.
You're trying to get into a fraternity, You've lost a bet or you're protesting...
A 2 year old has none of that stuff. It's pure. He has one thought:
I want to feel the wind on my penis.
That's all he wants.
 
2013-10-15 09:04:47 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: He could have just called the police as well if he was really concerned. There is no sensible scenario that ends with this guy getting shot to death.


Like another guy said, I'd assume naked guy was being chased by an angry husband, in which case naked guy probably wouldn't want even more attention from the police. Unfortunately, pulling over to help the guy get where he was going while sparing him further embarrassment was exactly the wrong thing to do in this case, as naked guy was also punching his friends in the face earlier, and still in a punchy mood that he decided to take out on an armed motorist.

The real problem you seem to have is that you think people shouldn't be allowed to defend themselves unless they display psychic and/or precognitive superpowers, a standard that even trained police officers and CIA assassins are routinely shown to be unable to meet. I, and pretty much anyone who doesn't truly believe they live in their own little version of the Truman Show, disagree with that impossible standard, and will fight to prevent its imposition on the grounds that demanding people accomplish the impossible tends to result in people getting put in positions of authority based on their ability to deceive other people into thinking they accomplished the impossible, and these people inevitably start deceiving people into not paying attention to the amount of money they're embezzling, the number of people they're sleeping around with, and the number of people who end up imprisoned or killed for no greater crime than openly dissenting against the con artist's unquestionable authority.

/and yes, it does inevitably end in murder
//because the con artist's life eventually depends on keeping the con going
///and so anyone that points out that the Emperor has no clothes on becomes a deadly threat to the con artist, and gets dealt with accordingly
 
2013-10-15 09:11:09 AM  
as someone who gets tired of washing workout clothes all the time... i have to empathize with the poor bastard....
 
2013-10-15 09:11:58 AM  
I still can't see any scenario where I'd turn my car around except to take some hilarious photos.

Don't people know how to mind their own business? Call 911 if you want. I wouldn't even do that.

Dumbasses with superhero complexes or something. Leave the naked people alone.
 
2013-10-15 09:12:08 AM  

Tatterdemalian: The real problem you seem to have is that you think people shouldn't be allowed to defend themselves unless they display psychic and/or precognitive superpowers, a standard that even trained police officers and CIA assassins are routinely shown to be unable to meet


No I totally agree that the naked man should be allowed to defend himself against the armed guy that turned around to confront him.
 
2013-10-15 09:12:09 AM  

Jim_Callahan: fusillade762: He told detectives he was driving west on Hollywood Boulevard between 5 and 5:30 a.m. Oct. 6 when he spotted the nude man. He passed by him, then turned around and went back, he told police.

Oh for f*ck's sake. Call the goddamn cops and let them deal with it. Did no one learn anything from the Martin shooting?

That was the point of the story where I started assuming the shooter was drunk off his arse.  Probably hasn't been charged yet because they haven't finished counting how many laws he broke yet.



I think it's more likely that the shootie was drunk off his ass. Had just punched his friend while being naked at 5 am..... yeah. I'm not saying he should have been shot, but I would bet that he helped escalate that situation.
 
2013-10-15 09:14:56 AM  
Why is nobody making wild assumptions about the driver? I bet he circled around to point and laugh at the naked guy. Then, when naked guy gives him shiat back he "feels threatened" and plugs him in the gut. Good thing his state has a perfect excuse for such a situation.
 
2013-10-15 09:15:34 AM  
lulz at all the 'I'm not saying he should have been shot, but...'
 
2013-10-15 09:15:34 AM  

Aussie_As: Just what are Americans free to do in the land of the free that is special?


A lot of Americans wonder the same thing.  Just where is this mythical land?
 
2013-10-15 09:16:12 AM  

Rhino_man: Tarkus: fusillade762: He told detectives he was driving west on Hollywood Boulevard between 5 and 5:30 a.m. Oct. 6 when he spotted the nude man. He passed by him, then turned around and went back, he told police.

Oh for f*ck's sake. Call the goddamn cops and let them deal with it. Did no one learn anything from the Martin shooting?

Besides, "You can get away with murder in Florida"?

[oyster.ignimgs.com image 610x374]


I enjoy South Park....but that episode wasn't that funny...because the Trayvon Martin/Zimmerman case had nothing to do with 'Stand Your Ground' laws.
 
2013-10-15 09:18:20 AM  

ferretman: Rhino_man: Tarkus: fusillade762: He told detectives he was driving west on Hollywood Boulevard between 5 and 5:30 a.m. Oct. 6 when he spotted the nude man. He passed by him, then turned around and went back, he told police.

Oh for f*ck's sake. Call the goddamn cops and let them deal with it. Did no one learn anything from the Martin shooting?

Besides, "You can get away with murder in Florida"?

[oyster.ignimgs.com image 610x374]

I enjoy South Park....but that episode wasn't that funny...because the Trayvon Martin/Zimmerman case had nothing to do with 'Stand Your Ground' laws.


You mean aside from the police initially declining to prosecute and basing that decisions on those laws?
 
2013-10-15 09:19:55 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Tatterdemalian: The real problem you seem to have is that you think people shouldn't be allowed to defend themselves unless they display psychic and/or precognitive superpowers, a standard that even trained police officers and CIA assassins are routinely shown to be unable to meet

No I totally agree that the naked man should be allowed to defend himself against the armed guy that turned around to confront him.


Just like con artists should be allowed to defend themselves against people who refuse to fall for their con, no doubt.

/so I won't shed any tears when you get shot for disagreeing your authorities
//you are one of the people that's helping them gain the authority they needed to enforce their purge of dissenters, wreckers, and anyone else they choose to blame for the difference between imagination and reality
 
2013-10-15 09:21:32 AM  

Tarkus: fusillade762: He told detectives he was driving west on Hollywood Boulevard between 5 and 5:30 a.m. Oct. 6 when he spotted the nude man. He passed by him, then turned around and went back, he told police.

Oh for f*ck's sake. Call the goddamn cops and let them deal with it. Did no one learn anything from the Martin shooting?

Besides, "You can get away with murder in Florida"?


Because if you shoot someone who is on your chest and punching you in the face, while having defense and prosecution witnesses corroborate your story, and having already suffered a broken nose, which qualifies as grievous bodily harm, in a state that permits lethal force to prevent great bodily harm... it is murder!

How can you (and the south park creators) still be so farking ignorant?
 
2013-10-15 09:25:04 AM  

Tatterdemalian: HotWingConspiracy: Tatterdemalian: The real problem you seem to have is that you think people shouldn't be allowed to defend themselves unless they display psychic and/or precognitive superpowers, a standard that even trained police officers and CIA assassins are routinely shown to be unable to meet

No I totally agree that the naked man should be allowed to defend himself against the armed guy that turned around to confront him.

Just like con artists should be allowed to defend themselves against people who refuse to fall for their con, no doubt.

/so I won't shed any tears when you get shot for disagreeing your authorities
//you are one of the people that's helping them gain the authority they needed to enforce their purge of dissenters, wreckers, and anyone else they choose to blame for the difference between imagination and reality


Yeah...

img.pandawhale.com

Up your meds, bro.
 
2013-10-15 09:25:24 AM  

Confabulat: This About That: Confabulat: But it's cool for white kids?

This About That: I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying that self preservation is also an important consideration.

I still don't get it. You're saying people are more likely to shoot a naked black guy running down the street than a naked white one?


Yes.
 
2013-10-15 09:27:41 AM  
wow crazy story, apparently it actually is ok to play vigilante and kill unarmed people in florida.
 
2013-10-15 09:28:33 AM  

Wolf892: Obviously stand your ground applies here because seeing the massive swinging member of the black man caused the white fellow to feel incredibly threatened. He had no choice but to open fire to reassert his dominance of the situation.


The article doesn't say anything about Duke LaGuerre's ethnicity. The only information given besides his name is that he lives in Miami Gardens, a town with a predominantly black population. Did someone find his Facebook page or something else that shows he's white?

And since the shooting apparently happened during a fight, SYG may not have anything to do with the motorist's self-defense claim. It wasn't used in the Zimmerman case, despite all the Internet insistence that it must have been a factor.

All I'm getting from this story is a massive WTF so far. There's a LOT more detail that needs to be filled in before anyone can sensibly start drawing up sides and screaming about the injustice of what "really" happened.
 
2013-10-15 09:29:23 AM  
Abandoned at the beach by a friend who took his clothes and skateboard, Cherry apparentlydecided to run home - naked.

I think we have all the answers here.
 
2013-10-15 09:32:35 AM  
Like hero Zimmerman, Laguerre saw a black guy and said 'not on my watch'.
 
2013-10-15 09:33:04 AM  

Bungles: Are there any examples of stand your ground every being successfully used by a black person shooting a white?


I'm not doing anyones googling for them, but yes there have been cases. People have also benefitted from the law when they shot people of the same race, to include black and black incidents.

By the numbers there is alot of white on black happening.  Not surprising since whites (with their gun culture) own most of the weapons while blacks (with poverty being what it is) are involved in alot of the crime.

Ending the drug war, and dealing with the side effects of urbanization, would probably snap those numbers back into line.
 
2013-10-15 09:38:45 AM  
The guy was such a nice kid, he assaulted his friend at the beach.

I doubt the interaction with the stranger was much different.
 
2013-10-15 09:41:25 AM  

ferretman: Rhino_man: Tarkus: fusillade762: He told detectives he was driving west on Hollywood Boulevard between 5 and 5:30 a.m. Oct. 6 when he spotted the nude man. He passed by him, then turned around and went back, he told police.

Oh for f*ck's sake. Call the goddamn cops and let them deal with it. Did no one learn anything from the Martin shooting?

Besides, "You can get away with murder in Florida"?

[oyster.ignimgs.com image 610x374]

I enjoy South Park....but that episode wasn't that funny...because the Trayvon Martin/Zimmerman case had nothing to do with 'Stand Your Ground' laws.


^

2/3 of the episodes this season were pretty terrible (murder porn was pretty amusing though. Mostly because my dad watches a lot of the ID channel)
 
2013-10-15 09:42:52 AM  

Confabulat: This About That: ust in cast there is a young black kid left who doesn't get it yet, let me suggest that the phrase "naked black man running down Hollywood Boulevard in south Florida" should, maybe, set off a little alarm in one's head.

But it's cool for white kids?


"Cool" is pushing it, but did any naked white kids get shot in this case?

How many times do we have to tell you guys? Knock it off with the black.
 
2013-10-15 09:43:27 AM  

Headso: wow crazy story, apparently it actually is ok to play vigilante and kill unarmed people in florida.


In fairness, it was the premise for the Dexter series.
 
2013-10-15 09:46:48 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: skozlaw: Shooting a naked person you backtracked to confront is not self-defense.

Confront? That's an odd choice of words for not knowing what exactly happened


Unless naked guy is related to Barry Allen, car guy would have to go out of his way to get within his reach.
Car guy was probably trying to be a good Samaritan, but when you see naked people running down the street at night, It's probably best to keep your distance and call the police.
 
2013-10-15 09:46:58 AM  

Confabulat: This About That: Confabulat: But it's cool for white kids?

This About That: I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying that self preservation is also an important consideration.

I still don't get it. You're saying people are more likely to shoot a naked black guy running down the street than a naked white clothed one?

 
2013-10-15 09:47:17 AM  

Confabulat: I still don't get it. You're saying people are more likely to shoot a naked black guy running down the street than a naked white one?


Naked white guys are easier to see at night.
 
2013-10-15 09:52:32 AM  

Lady J: lulz at all the 'I'm not saying he should have been shot, but...'


thats the joke.jpg
 
2013-10-15 09:52:41 AM  

Literally Addicted: Headso: wow crazy story, apparently it actually is ok to play vigilante and kill unarmed people in florida.

In fairness, it was the premise for the Dexter series.


I wonder how many seasons the show would have ran if he only killed black people.
 
2013-10-15 09:54:52 AM  

d23: A naked man is a VERY vulnerable man. Shoot him in the leg. I don't have all the facts, but it sure sounds like it at least needed to be investigated.


There's no such concept as "shooting to wound" in jurisprudence.
 
2013-10-15 09:58:19 AM  

Misconduc: Confabulat: eurotrash: I know it's Florida but why is this law not repealed immediately?

There is no demand from Florida voters to repeal it.

Because for every 1 idiot that gets into an argument and gets killed, there are 9 others who use the law to its effect - in the case in my area 3 thugs broke into a house, the owner told them to stop and they continued to climb through a window - where the home owner shot the kid.
He gets off, the two kids that were involved got the murder charge for being there.

Its 3 am and three 18 yr old thugs break into your house, yeah you are sitting in a closet calling 911, no you shoot and ask questions later.


No I don't, for all I know it could be my nephew coming home late, locals doing a drunk prank so I get out of the house. There is no possession that is worth a persons life, nothing that a thief would want is something I wouldn't be able to replace.

In a civilized society we give the government monopoly on violence, this is done to avoid a lawless society where the strong prevail and weaker people cower. I know that you will never see it this way, in your world a TV is worth more to you than a fellow human beings life.
 
2013-10-15 10:00:05 AM  

way south: Bungles: Are there any examples of stand your ground every being successfully used by a black person shooting a white?

I'm not doing anyones googling for them, but yes there have been cases. People have also benefitted from the law when they shot people of the same race, to include black and black incidents.

By the numbers there is alot of white on black happening.  Not surprising since whites (with their gun culture) own most of the weapons while blacks (with poverty being what it is) are involved in alot of the crime.

Ending the drug war, and dealing with the side effects of urbanization, would probably snap those numbers back into line.


Black people in the South are just as likely to own a gun for self protection as white people. Nationally, it's 44 percent for whites, 27 percent for blacks, but a lot of blacks outside the South live in cities with strict gun control. The stand-your-ground law in Florida has mostly benefited criminals who shot other criminals in personal or turf disputes. Before the law, the shooter would get locked up for a long time. Now, they're getting off by claiming they were standing their ground.
 
2013-10-15 10:02:01 AM  

eurotrash: No I don't, for all I know it could be my nephew coming home late, locals doing a drunk prank so I get out of the house. There is no possession that is worth a persons life, nothing that a thief would want is something I wouldn't be able to replace.

In a civilized society we give the government monopoly on violence, this is done to avoid a lawless society where the strong prevail and weaker people cower. I know that you will never see it this way, in your world a TV is worth more to you than a fellow human beings life.


Surely you can at least see some irony in that sentence is your response to his scenario of three criminals breaking into one's house to steal things
 
2013-10-15 10:05:10 AM  

eurotrash: Misconduc: Confabulat: eurotrash: I know it's Florida but why is this law not repealed immediately?

There is no demand from Florida voters to repeal it.

Because for every 1 idiot that gets into an argument and gets killed, there are 9 others who use the law to its effect - in the case in my area 3 thugs broke into a house, the owner told them to stop and they continued to climb through a window - where the home owner shot the kid.
He gets off, the two kids that were involved got the murder charge for being there.

Its 3 am and three 18 yr old thugs break into your house, yeah you are sitting in a closet calling 911, no you shoot and ask questions later.

No I don't, for all I know it could be my nephew coming home late, locals doing a drunk prank so I get out of the house. There is no possession that is worth a persons life, nothing that a thief would want is something I wouldn't be able to replace.

In a civilized society we give the government monopoly on violence, this is done to avoid a lawless society where the strong prevail and weaker people cower. I know that you will never see it this way, in your world a TV is worth more to you than a fellow human beings life.


Yeah, I would definitely fire a warning shot into the floor/celing unless I could see they were armed. I'm not playing around with somebody who's breaking into my house with a gun, but I don't see any reason to shoot an unarmed person just because they're acting like an ass.
 
2013-10-15 10:05:21 AM  

This text is now purple: d23: A naked man is a VERY vulnerable man. Shoot him in the leg. I don't have all the facts, but it sure sounds like it at least needed to be investigated.

There's no such concept as "shooting to wound" in jurisprudence.


eurotrash: Misconduc: Confabulat: eurotrash: I know it's Florida but why is this law not repealed immediately?

There is no demand from Florida voters to repeal it.

Because for every 1 idiot that gets into an argument and gets killed, there are 9 others who use the law to its effect - in the case in my area 3 thugs broke into a house, the owner told them to stop and they continued to climb through a window - where the home owner shot the kid.
He gets off, the two kids that were involved got the murder charge for being there.

Its 3 am and three 18 yr old thugs break into your house, yeah you are sitting in a closet calling 911, no you shoot and ask questions later.

No I don't, for all I know it could be my nephew coming home late, locals doing a drunk prank so I get out of the house. There is no possession that is worth a persons life, nothing that a thief would want is something I wouldn't be able to replace.

In a civilized society we give the government monopoly on violence, this is done to avoid a lawless society where the strong prevail and weaker people cower. I know that you will never see it this way, in your world a TV is worth more to you than a fellow human beings life.


What if they aren't there for your possessions?

What if they are there to rape your wife and daughter?

How would you know what they are there for.

Breaking and entering to steal a TV is the gateway to full on home invasion rapes and murders.

Shoot to kill, you may have just paid it forward and saved the lives of someone like the Petit family.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire,_Connecticut,_home_invasion_mu rd ers

Why is it that the TV is not worth taking someones life over....why don't you word it as "someone elses TV is not worth you risking your life by trying to take it"

Shows who you value more...the criminal.
 
2013-10-15 10:07:42 AM  

Giltric: Shows who you value more...the criminal.


Are you a child? Do you think that is anything any sane person thinks?

Why are you talking like a little baby?
 
2013-10-15 10:09:45 AM  

eurotrash: No I don't, for all I know it could be my nephew coming home late, locals doing a drunk prank so I get out of the house. There is no possession that is worth a persons life, nothing that a thief would want is something I wouldn't be able to replace.


armedpatriots.com
 
2013-10-15 10:09:47 AM  
Notice how the gun nuts quickly move the argument to home invasions and rape of your wife and children, instead of the actual story.

Same ol, same ol
 
2013-10-15 10:11:21 AM  
To be fair though, how could that driver NOT know the naked black man wasn't running to his house to rape his wife?

He couldn't possibly be sure! Better to shoot first!
 
2013-10-15 10:12:49 AM  

Confabulat: Giltric: Shows who you value more...the criminal.

Are you a child? Do you think that is anything any sane person thinks?

Why are you talking like a little baby?


Regardless, he is correct in stating that the burden of understanding that possessions do not equal life is on the thief, not the victim. At least IMHO.
 
2013-10-15 10:13:14 AM  

Confabulat: Notice how the gun nuts quickly move the argument to home invasions and rape of your wife and children, instead of the actual story.


It's a stretch, but not a huge one. For better or worse, public nudity like this is often considered a sex offense*. Strange people wandering nude in the dead of night are already of reasonably dubious motive.

Likely, probably not? Reasonable... maybe.

* - this is a bug, not a feature.
 
2013-10-15 10:13:34 AM  

spacelord321: Jim_Callahan: fusillade762: He told detectives he was driving west on Hollywood Boulevard between 5 and 5:30 a.m. Oct. 6 when he spotted the nude man. He passed by him, then turned around and went back, he told police.

Oh for f*ck's sake. Call the goddamn cops and let them deal with it. Did no one learn anything from the Martin shooting?

That was the point of the story where I started assuming the shooter was drunk off his arse.  Probably hasn't been charged yet because they haven't finished counting how many laws he broke yet.


I think it's more likely that the shootie was drunk off his ass. Had just punched his friend while being naked at 5 am..... yeah. I'm not saying he should have been shot, but I would bet that he helped escalate that situation.


The lack of charges by the police would support that guess as much or more than anyone else's guesses.   But that isn't much of a story and it isn't going to get as many page hits as an unjustifiable shooting.
 
2013-10-15 10:13:57 AM  

This text is now purple: [armedpatriots.com image 640x360]


Dear god, who created that ad?  They should be raped AND shot.
 
2013-10-15 10:15:01 AM  

Confabulat: Notice how the gun nuts quickly move the argument to home invasions and rape of your wife and children, instead of the actual story.

Same ol, same ol


If by gun nuts, you mean a general discussion of why the law wasn't repealed. Hell you were part of that train of thought in the first place, intentionally or not.

Here was the progression:

1) Why hasn't this law been repealed?
2) No voters want to repeal it (you)
3) It's not repealed because it's overwhelmingly used by people to legitimately defend themselves, like in this hypethetical situation
4) No one in a civilized society would shoot someone for a TV
5) Not everyone is looking for a TV. Sometimes they are there to rape and kill

I'm not saying every point is as valid as the last or that they are all good, but it's a pretty logical progression and no real good reason to address the crime at hand when the train of thought was barely on it in the first place
 
2013-10-15 10:15:39 AM  

Confabulat: Notice how the gun nuts quickly move the argument to home invasions and rape of your wife and children, instead of the actual story.

Same ol, same ol


What was the actual story?

The article is light on details. I did not know you were a witness.


Like the woman who drove her ar 15 to the whitehouse and smashed her baby against the barricade until police shot her.
 
2013-10-15 10:16:51 AM  

Literally Addicted: This text is now purple: [armedpatriots.com image 640x360]

Dear god, who created that ad?  They should be raped AND shot.


No idea who created it but Snopes says false

http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/bradyad.asp
 
2013-10-15 10:18:25 AM  

Literally Addicted: This text is now purple: [armedpatriots.com image 640x360]

Dear god, who created that ad?  They should be raped AND shot.


It's a parody of the Brady Campaign ads. It's also a position eurotrash is actually espousing.
 
2013-10-15 10:18:38 AM  

Big_Fat_Liar: spacelord321: Jim_Callahan: fusillade762: He told detectives he was driving west on Hollywood Boulevard between 5 and 5:30 a.m. Oct. 6 when he spotted the nude man. He passed by him, then turned around and went back, he told police.

Oh for f*ck's sake. Call the goddamn cops and let them deal with it. Did no one learn anything from the Martin shooting?

That was the point of the story where I started assuming the shooter was drunk off his arse.  Probably hasn't been charged yet because they haven't finished counting how many laws he broke yet.


I think it's more likely that the shootie was drunk off his ass. Had just punched his friend while being naked at 5 am..... yeah. I'm not saying he should have been shot, but I would bet that he helped escalate that situation.

The lack of charges by the police would support that guess as much or more than anyone else's guesses.   But that isn't much of a story and it isn't going to get as many page hits as an unjustifiable shooting.


Never fear. Fark's investigators are on it!
 
2013-10-15 10:19:01 AM  
So basically in Florida you can follow random strangers around until one of them gets pissed and just blow them away.

Let's call this "zimming."

"Any hobbies?"
"I'm a zimmer, man. Zimmed another one just last night."
 
2013-10-15 10:20:27 AM  
Hey I'm all in favor of the Second Amendment. I don't have any interest in gun control cause I know guns won't go anywhere. Not like I can't buy drugs easier than beer at 4 AM.

But gun nuts are a special, paranoid breed.
 
2013-10-15 10:21:45 AM  

MagSeven: Tat'dGreaser: skozlaw: Shooting a naked person you backtracked to confront is not self-defense.

Confront? That's an odd choice of words for not knowing what exactly happened

Unless naked guy is related to Barry Allen, car guy would have to go out of his way to get within his reach.
Car guy was probably trying to be a good Samaritan, but when you see naked people running down the street at night, It's probably best to keep your distance and call the police.


The progressive movement gets its political power from imposing exactly this kind of Catch-22 narrative and using their 20/20 hindsight to "prove" their superior intellect and morality. If someone intervened, then they were a vicious monster like Richard Jewell George Zimmerman that did everything wrong on purpose and should have minded their own business. If everyone ignored it and/or called the cops who arrived too late, then they were all cold-hearted monsters just like the people who ignored Kitty Genovese while she was screaming for help, and serve as proof that we need superior, progressive authorities to guide us.

/and like any other con game, it depends on our tendency to notice outliers and ignore the mainstream
//like ignoring all the other anecdotes about naked rape victims stumbling down the street being picked up by Good Samaritans and getting a faster and less embarrassing ride home
///not to mention how all those porno films start
 
2013-10-15 10:22:52 AM  
I want to know how he's managing to claim that he was being menaced with a straight face. (He must be, right) I've seen guys streaking, and at no point did I feel like I was in danger. There just something completely not dangerous about a guy with his bits dangling in the breeze.
 
2013-10-15 10:23:26 AM  

Tatterdemalian: MagSeven: Tat'dGreaser: skozlaw: Shooting a naked person you backtracked to confront is not self-defense.

Confront? That's an odd choice of words for not knowing what exactly happened

Unless naked guy is related to Barry Allen, car guy would have to go out of his way to get within his reach.
Car guy was probably trying to be a good Samaritan, but when you see naked people running down the street at night, It's probably best to keep your distance and call the police.

The progressive movement gets its political power from imposing exactly this kind of Catch-22 narrative and using their 20/20 hindsight to "prove" their superior intellect and morality. If someone intervened, then they were a vicious monster like Richard Jewell George Zimmerman that did everything wrong on purpose and should have minded their own business. If everyone ignored it and/or called the cops who arrived too late, then they were all cold-hearted monsters just like the people who ignored Kitty Genovese while she was screaming for help, and serve as proof that we need superior, progressive authorities to guide us.

/and like any other con game, it depends on our tendency to notice outliers and ignore the mainstream
//like ignoring all the other anecdotes about naked rape victims stumbling down the street being picked up by Good Samaritans and getting a faster and less embarrassing ride home
///not to mention how all those porno films start


Is this satire? I hope for your sake this is satire.
 
2013-10-15 10:23:58 AM  

mbillips: eurotrash: Misconduc: Confabulat: eurotrash: I know it's Florida but why is this law not repealed immediately?

There is no demand from Florida voters to repeal it.

Because for every 1 idiot that gets into an argument and gets killed, there are 9 others who use the law to its effect - in the case in my area 3 thugs broke into a house, the owner told them to stop and they continued to climb through a window - where the home owner shot the kid.
He gets off, the two kids that were involved got the murder charge for being there.

Its 3 am and three 18 yr old thugs break into your house, yeah you are sitting in a closet calling 911, no you shoot and ask questions later.

No I don't, for all I know it could be my nephew coming home late, locals doing a drunk prank so I get out of the house. There is no possession that is worth a persons life, nothing that a thief would want is something I wouldn't be able to replace.

In a civilized society we give the government monopoly on violence, this is done to avoid a lawless society where the strong prevail and weaker people cower. I know that you will never see it this way, in your world a TV is worth more to you than a fellow human beings life.

Yeah, I would definitely fire a warning shot into the floor/celing unless I could see they were armed. I'm not playing around with somebody who's breaking into my house with a gun, but I don't see any reason to shoot an unarmed person just because they're acting like an ass.


You must be the 1%er group that would fire a warning shot, I however would not. I am not risking 1 inch of my life to decide whether you have a gun or not - you attacked my castle, now I will defend it, thus being said whether you are armed or not - it only takes ONE punch to kill a human being.
Unarmed vs a gun? We know the winner, if you are going to be a criminal, take the consequences of your actions.

What you fail to understand is there are consequences to actions, if its broad day light and some drunk tries to break into my home - I know for a fact that he isn't armed - of course I wouldn't shoot him.
Now what about a Masked person wearing black, at 2am and the lights are off, you stupidly going to tell me you won't shoot first then decide later? Wrong.
 
2013-10-15 10:24:34 AM  

I May Be Crazy But...: I want to know how he's managing to claim that he was being menaced with a straight face. (He must be, right) I've seen guys streaking, and at no point did I feel like I was in danger. There just something completely not dangerous about a guy with his bits dangling in the breeze.


Unless the guy is advancing on you aggressively demanding that you give him a ride....and he won't take no for an answer....maybe he even tries to open the door to your car as you are telling him no and to back away.
 
2013-10-15 10:25:36 AM  
If he had been a chick this wouldn't have happened
 
2013-10-15 10:26:34 AM  
Remember, naked guys with dangling bits are so not dangerous....100% of the time they will never do anything bad, like assaulting you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mz1VqNEHsQs NSFW
 
2013-10-15 10:27:28 AM  
"Laguerre has not been charged in the shooting."

I don't understand how this is possible. I'm adding Florida to my list of places to avoid from now on. It's a short list that includes Somalia, Iraq, and Afghanistan.

/sorry, Grandpa
 
2013-10-15 10:28:02 AM  
Funny thing is, I've never been home invaded (burgled, sure, but never when I was home) but I've never thought a gun would be much use in that situation unless it was right next to my computer desk and then maybe I'd get moody or drunk and be another Fark headline (that I didn't write).

I have tons of sharp objects, pointy objects, and heavy objects within arms' reach though. I will happily murder anyone who invades my home, but having a gun next to me is a huge mistake because I drink heavily.
 
2013-10-15 10:28:20 AM  

spacelord321: Confabulat: Giltric: Shows who you value more...the criminal.

Are you a child? Do you think that is anything any sane person thinks?

Why are you talking like a little baby?

Regardless, he is correct in stating that the burden of understanding that possessions do not equal life is on the thief, not the victim. At least IMHO.


I suggest you be less humble. Grow a pair and show some god damned agency in your own life. If you shoot someone, don't use the "he made me do it" cop out. Own it. Say "I shot him. I chose to take his life."
 
2013-10-15 10:28:22 AM  

I May Be Crazy But...: I want to know how he's managing to claim that he was being menaced with a straight face. (He must be, right) I've seen guys streaking, and at no point did I feel like I was in danger. There just something completely not dangerous about a guy with his bits dangling in the breeze.


I could see if  you were not in your car and instead on some lonely road with nobody around especially in florida where they have those pill clinics and weed laws are so insane people do bath salts. But if you are in your vehicle driving by I don't see how anyone could say that guy was in danger.
 
2013-10-15 10:30:16 AM  

Confabulat: Funny thing is, I've never been home invaded (burgled, sure, but never when I was home) but I've never thought a gun would be much use in that situation unless it was right next to my computer desk and then maybe I'd get moody or drunk and be another Fark headline (that I didn't write).

I have tons of sharp objects, pointy objects, and heavy objects within arms' reach though. I will happily murder anyone who invades my home, but having a gun next to me is a huge mistake because I drink heavily.


Sounds like you are the type of person other farkers have been warning people about.

The kind with mental issues who should never have access to a firearm, or even sharp implements.

Have yourself checked out before you stab a schoolyard of children.

You won't know that you have snapped. And then it will be too late.
 
2013-10-15 10:30:56 AM  

Confabulat: Funny thing is, I've never been home invaded (burgled, sure, but never when I was home) but I've never thought a gun would be much use in that situation unless it was right next to my computer desk and then maybe I'd get moody or drunk and be another Fark headline (that I didn't write).

I have tons of sharp objects, pointy objects, and heavy objects within arms' reach though. I will happily murder anyone who invades my home, but having a gun next to me is a huge mistake because I drink heavily.


Ok. So you don't trust yourself. Noted.
 
2013-10-15 10:31:01 AM  

OnlyM3: TuteTibiImperes [TotalFark]
To be fair, in Florida, you're 6x more likely to get shot if you're black than if you're white in general. Now tell the rest of the story. For those -fark it, for ALL- shootings. What color is the shooter most likely to be.


May I present...Duke Laguerre, the shooter.

scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2013-10-15 10:31:59 AM  

Giltric: Confabulat: Funny thing is, I've never been home invaded (burgled, sure, but never when I was home) but I've never thought a gun would be much use in that situation unless it was right next to my computer desk and then maybe I'd get moody or drunk and be another Fark headline (that I didn't write).

I have tons of sharp objects, pointy objects, and heavy objects within arms' reach though. I will happily murder anyone who invades my home, but having a gun next to me is a huge mistake because I drink heavily.

Sounds like you are the type of person other farkers have been warning people about.

The kind with mental issues who should never have access to a firearm, or even sharp implements.

Have yourself checked out before you stab a schoolyard of children.

You won't know that you have snapped. And then it will be too late.


Cute. I snapped long ago. Mine is a sort that doesn't involve insane gun violence though, what's your excuse?
 
2013-10-15 10:32:27 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: FTFA: Laguerre has not been charged in the shooting.


Which sounds like he was the aggressor.  He seems to have punched his friend at the beach, maybe he punched the motorist also.

way south: As for this incident, something seems to be missing from the story.
Snowflake punches his friend in the face, friend takes off with snowflakes cloths (because being nude at the beach all night is normal). Snowflake walks home nude, ends up in confrontation with curious resident (I'm guessing there's a few more punches involved) and killed.

The missing ingredient is probably drugs.


I think you nailed it.
 
2013-10-15 10:33:19 AM  

spacelord321: Confabulat: Funny thing is, I've never been home invaded (burgled, sure, but never when I was home) but I've never thought a gun would be much use in that situation unless it was right next to my computer desk and then maybe I'd get moody or drunk and be another Fark headline (that I didn't write).

I have tons of sharp objects, pointy objects, and heavy objects within arms' reach though. I will happily murder anyone who invades my home, but having a gun next to me is a huge mistake because I drink heavily.

Ok. So you don't trust yourself. Noted.


Ha, I'm the last person I trust. I'm sure every gun owner out there, though, is a responsible sane citizen, unlike me, who completely abides by all safe rules of firearms.
 
2013-10-15 10:35:06 AM  

Confabulat: Giltric: Confabulat: Funny thing is, I've never been home invaded (burgled, sure, but never when I was home) but I've never thought a gun would be much use in that situation unless it was right next to my computer desk and then maybe I'd get moody or drunk and be another Fark headline (that I didn't write).

I have tons of sharp objects, pointy objects, and heavy objects within arms' reach though. I will happily murder anyone who invades my home, but having a gun next to me is a huge mistake because I drink heavily.

Sounds like you are the type of person other farkers have been warning people about.

The kind with mental issues who should never have access to a firearm, or even sharp implements.

Have yourself checked out before you stab a schoolyard of children.

You won't know that you have snapped. And then it will be too late.

Cute. I snapped long ago. Mine is a sort that doesn't involve insane gun violence though, what's your excuse?


Me?

Physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.


/be prepared.
 
2013-10-15 10:35:15 AM  

I May Be Crazy But...: spacelord321: Confabulat: Giltric: Shows who you value more...the criminal.

Are you a child? Do you think that is anything any sane person thinks?

Why are you talking like a little baby?

Regardless, he is correct in stating that the burden of understanding that possessions do not equal life is on the thief, not the victim. At least IMHO.

I suggest you be less humble. Grow a pair and show some god damned agency in your own life. If you shoot someone, don't use the "he made me do it" cop out. Own it. Say "I shot him. I chose to take his life."


I never said anything otherwise. I simply stated that the thief should understand that he is giving me the chance to make that choice, in not so many words. Lighten up, Francis.

Does your ego feel better now? Mine does.
 
2013-10-15 10:36:27 AM  

Khazar-Khum: OnlyM3: TuteTibiImperes [TotalFark]
To be fair, in Florida, you're 6x more likely to get shot if you're black than if you're white in general. Now tell the rest of the story. For those -fark it, for ALL- shootings. What color is the shooter most likely to be.

May I present...Duke Laguerre, the shooter.

[scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net image 540x720]


We can only assume that's the guy. The FB page doesn't really give much in the way of details, just pictures
 
2013-10-15 10:37:25 AM  

Khazar-Khum: OnlyM3: TuteTibiImperes [TotalFark]
To be fair, in Florida, you're 6x more likely to get shot if you're black than if you're white in general. Now tell the rest of the story. For those -fark it, for ALL- shootings. What color is the shooter most likely to be.

May I present...Duke Laguerre, the shooter.

[scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net image 540x720]


weknowmemes.com
 
2013-10-15 10:37:47 AM  

Tatterdemalian: MagSeven: Tat'dGreaser: skozlaw: Shooting a naked person you backtracked to confront is not self-defense.

Confront? That's an odd choice of words for not knowing what exactly happened

Unless naked guy is related to Barry Allen, car guy would have to go out of his way to get within his reach.
Car guy was probably trying to be a good Samaritan, but when you see naked people running down the street at night, It's probably best to keep your distance and call the police.

The progressive movement gets its political power from imposing exactly this kind of Catch-22 narrative and using their 20/20 hindsight to "prove" their superior intellect and morality. If someone intervened, then they were a vicious monster like Richard Jewell George Zimmerman that did everything wrong on purpose and should have minded their own business. If everyone ignored it and/or called the cops who arrived too late, then they were all cold-hearted monsters just like the people who ignored Kitty Genovese while she was screaming for help, and serve as proof that we need superior, progressive authorities to guide us.

/and like any other con game, it depends on our tendency to notice outliers and ignore the mainstream
//like ignoring all the other anecdotes about naked rape victims stumbling down the street being picked up by Good Samaritans and getting a faster and less embarrassing ride home
///not to mention how all those porno films start


I said or alluded to none of those things soooo.....OK then?
 
2013-10-15 10:37:58 AM  

Khazar-Khum: OnlyM3: TuteTibiImperes [TotalFark]
To be fair, in Florida, you're 6x more likely to get shot if you're black than if you're white in general. Now tell the rest of the story. For those -fark it, for ALL- shootings. What color is the shooter most likely to be.

May I present...Duke Laguerre, the shooter.

[scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net image 540x720]


Oh shiat, the media will actually have to play the "white African-American" card.

/grabs popcorn
 
2013-10-15 10:38:01 AM  

spacelord321: I May Be Crazy But...: spacelord321: Confabulat: Giltric: Shows who you value more...the criminal.

Are you a child? Do you think that is anything any sane person thinks?

Why are you talking like a little baby?

Regardless, he is correct in stating that the burden of understanding that possessions do not equal life is on the thief, not the victim. At least IMHO.

I suggest you be less humble. Grow a pair and show some god damned agency in your own life. If you shoot someone, don't use the "he made me do it" cop out. Own it. Say "I shot him. I chose to take his life."

I never said anything otherwise. I simply stated that the thief should understand that he is giving me the chance to make that choice, in not so many words. Lighten up, Francis.

Does your ego feel better now? Mine does.


I feel much better. You admitted that you would choose to kill someone. That's what I asked for, instead of "the burden ... is on the thief".
 
2013-10-15 10:38:05 AM  

Confabulat: spacelord321: Confabulat: Funny thing is, I've never been home invaded (burgled, sure, but never when I was home) but I've never thought a gun would be much use in that situation unless it was right next to my computer desk and then maybe I'd get moody or drunk and be another Fark headline (that I didn't write).

I have tons of sharp objects, pointy objects, and heavy objects within arms' reach though. I will happily murder anyone who invades my home, but having a gun next to me is a huge mistake because I drink heavily.

Ok. So you don't trust yourself. Noted.

Ha, I'm the last person I trust. I'm sure every gun owner out there, though, is a responsible sane citizen, unlike me, who completely abides by all safe rules of firearms.


Some are.
 
2013-10-15 10:41:23 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: Confabulat: I've spent most of my life in Florida and I've met my fair share of naked men roaming around in the middle of the night. Not a one of them is someone you'd want to have a conversation with.

I don't know, my first thought would be this person needs help

HotWingConspiracy: Well no, it could have been another GZim tough guy looking for a conflict that he would never ever ever seek out if he wasn't armed and prepped to kill.

He could have just called the police as well if he was really concerned. There is no sensible scenario that ends with this guy getting shot to death.

Ah, see we all have our preconceptions about everything.


But calling out the window "Hey, bro, you need help?"  or simply throwing him a towel or a blanket (both of which I always have in my car - I'm boyscouty that way) while you are in the safety of your car should effectively insulate you from the threat of an unarmed nekkid man even if he tells you to fark off, no?

The fact that the shooter saw a nekkid guy running down the street, then went back and stopped long enough to get into a violent confrontation with him leads me to believe he was offering more than help and didn't want to  take "no" or "fark offf" for an answer (or he could have simply driven away)
 
2013-10-15 10:41:37 AM  

Giltric: How would you know what they are there for.


How does it feel to live your life as an abject coward, always entertaining the darkest suspicions of everyone you meet and only able to assuage that gnawing terror by carrying a magical talisman that says you are not Afraid, you are a Tough Guy Who No One Messes With?

Man we need better mental health counseling in this country - the level of paranoia you show should make you unfit to carry anything more dangerous than a spoon.
 
2013-10-15 10:42:40 AM  

bonno: Thank goodness that guy had a gun! Imagine what might have happened if guns were illegal and not so widely owned, this guy may have been forced to act more intelligently.


Or think up how to make a gun. No ones EVER been able to do that.
 
2013-10-15 10:43:15 AM  

I May Be Crazy But...: spacelord321: I May Be Crazy But...: spacelord321: Confabulat: Giltric: Shows who you value more...the criminal.

Are you a child? Do you think that is anything any sane person thinks?

Why are you talking like a little baby?

Regardless, he is correct in stating that the burden of understanding that possessions do not equal life is on the thief, not the victim. At least IMHO.

I suggest you be less humble. Grow a pair and show some god damned agency in your own life. If you shoot someone, don't use the "he made me do it" cop out. Own it. Say "I shot him. I chose to take his life."

I never said anything otherwise. I simply stated that the thief should understand that he is giving me the chance to make that choice, in not so many words. Lighten up, Francis.

Does your ego feel better now? Mine does.

I feel much better. You admitted that you would choose to kill someone. That's what I asked for, instead of "the burden ... is on the thief".


The burden of granting me that choice is on the thief. Your semantic game is pointless.
 
2013-10-15 10:45:19 AM  

CheatCommando: Giltric: How would you know what they are there for.

How does it feel to live your life as an abject coward, always entertaining the darkest suspicions of everyone you meet and only able to assuage that gnawing terror by carrying a magical talisman that says you are not Afraid, you are a Tough Guy Who No One Messes With?

Man we need better mental health counseling in this country - the level of paranoia you show should make you unfit to carry anything more dangerous than a spoon.



Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

Crimes are usually perpetrated against you by someone you know...a friend, a family member.....that's a fact.
 
2013-10-15 10:49:25 AM  

Giltric: But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.


Responsible gun owner.
 
2013-10-15 10:49:38 AM  
so let me get this straight... After an argument with a friend, dead black guy found himself naked on a beach, close to his place of employment, and about 10 miles from home.   So, when confronted with this situation, the decision he makes is, "run 10 miles home while naked"...  Am I processing that one right?

I think I would have skipped all the future drama and just called the cops on myself...  They would probably give me a ride home...
 
2013-10-15 10:49:50 AM  

Giltric: Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.


heh! have a plan to kill everyone  you meet, psycho alert!
 
2013-10-15 10:51:12 AM  

Maul555: so let me get this straight... After an argument with a friend, dead black guy found himself naked on a beach, close to his place of employment, and about 10 miles from home.


At 5am.
 
2013-10-15 10:51:16 AM  

spacelord321: The burden of granting me that choice is on the thief. Your semantic game is pointless.


If you seriously meant from the beginning that the thief shouldn't be climbing in a stranger's window at 2 AM and that the guy shooting has to understand and take responsibility for killing that thief, then we're on the same page here. But that's not how I read what you said. ("...the burden of understanding that possessions do not equal life is on the thief, not the victim. ")

I'm not here to say whether I think shooting a thief climbing in your window is better or worse than clearing out of the house. I'm not honestly sure (as long as you identify the thief clearly as a thief, not your kid or something). But too many folks seem to think that their ONLY choice is to shoot someone when they feel threatened, and these stand your ground and castle laws don't help.
 
2013-10-15 10:53:41 AM  

Giltric: I May Be Crazy But...: I want to know how he's managing to claim that he was being menaced with a straight face. (He must be, right) I've seen guys streaking, and at no point did I feel like I was in danger. There just something completely not dangerous about a guy with his bits dangling in the breeze.

Unless the guy is advancing on you aggressively demanding that you give him a ride....and he won't take no for an answer....maybe he even tries to open the door to your car as you are telling him no and to back away.


Which of course couldn't happen unless you turn your car around to go confront him.
 
2013-10-15 10:54:23 AM  

Giltric: CheatCommando: Giltric: How would you know what they are there for.

How does it feel to live your life as an abject coward, always entertaining the darkest suspicions of everyone you meet and only able to assuage that gnawing terror by carrying a magical talisman that says you are not Afraid, you are a Tough Guy Who No One Messes With?

Man we need better mental health counseling in this country - the level of paranoia you show should make you unfit to carry anything more dangerous than a spoon.


Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

Crimes are usually perpetrated against you by someone you know...a friend, a family member.....that's a fact.


Where did you bury your family?
 
2013-10-15 10:54:57 AM  

Maul555: so let me get this straight... After an argument with a friend, dead black guy found himself naked on a beach, close to his place of employment, and about 10 miles from home.   So, when confronted with this situation, the decision he makes is, "run 10 miles home while naked"...  Am I processing that one right?

I think I would have skipped all the future drama and just called the cops on myself...  They would probably give me a ride home...


I was fired once for taking a nap at my workplace off hours. I might should have tried running.
 
2013-10-15 10:58:55 AM  

Giltric: Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.


For those who maybe missed it, it's a joke.
 
2013-10-15 11:01:13 AM  
Ok. I will agree that the shooter must actively make decisions, but I stand behind my opinion that the thief remains liable for all bad decisions taken by both parties.

Also, my discussion was aimed at a situation that was verified, wherein, the fact that someone is breaking into your house at night is established.
 
2013-10-15 11:04:30 AM  

runescorpio: Or think up how to make a gun. No ones EVER been able to do that.


It is not easy to make a decent, reliable gun that is capable of killing someone - it is much easier to purchase a mass produced firearm legitimately.

Your argument is RUBBISH. You state it like "we may as well make all bad things legal, because, you know, someone might figure out how to make it anyway". With that thought process, we may as well sell nuclear bombs down at the local supermarket.
 
2013-10-15 11:07:46 AM  

Lady J: HotWingConspiracy: Tat'dGreaser: HotWingConspiracy: putt putt putt

"Hey naked guy, you're naked. You ok?"

"Yes" and/or "F you man"

"Ok"

putt putt putt

That's the only way this could go down? That's it? Just that simple?

Well no, it could have been another GZim tough guy looking for a conflict that he would never ever ever seek out if he wasn't armed and prepped to kill.

He could have just called the police as well if he was really concerned. There is no sensible scenario that ends with this guy getting shot to death.

this. anyone who says otherwise is just waiting for their own chance to mess up their fruit of the looms shouting 'stop running away or I'll shoot' and happening upon someone alone who doesnt stop. and is probably black.


Your politics are showing; that is simply not true. It is entirely plausible that a normal well intentioned person saw a person running naked before the break of dawn, tried to offer help, and ended up in a violent confrontation due to the naked man's irrationality/violence after the naked man was in the car.

///There are many other plausible scenarios, some of which include the shooter being a cold blooded racist murderer. You should stop presuming so much.
 
2013-10-15 11:12:35 AM  

bonno: runescorpio: Or think up how to make a gun. No ones EVER been able to do that.

It is not easy to make a decent, reliable gun that is capable of killing someone - it is much easier to purchase a mass produced firearm legitimately.

Your argument is RUBBISH. You state it like "we may as well make all bad things legal, because, you know, someone might figure out how to make it anyway". With that thought process, we may as well sell nuclear bombs down at the local supermarket.


No one is going to disagree that buying a mass produced firearm legitimately is easier than creating a decent, reliable gun. A lot of people make them and don't need them to be decent or reliable. That's pretty much the whole point of zip guns.
 
2013-10-15 11:14:11 AM  

redmid17: eurotrash: No I don't, for all I know it could be my nephew coming home late, locals doing a drunk prank so I get out of the house. There is no possession that is worth a persons life, nothing that a thief would want is something I wouldn't be able to replace.

In a civilized society we give the government monopoly on violence, this is done to avoid a lawless society where the strong prevail and weaker people cower. I know that you will never see it this way, in your world a TV is worth more to you than a fellow human beings life.

Surely you can at least see some irony in that sentence is your response to his scenario of three criminals breaking into one's house to steal things


No, where would the irony be?  Having breakins does not entail a lawless society, being able to act as judge, jury and executioner is. I believe the irony exists in that you believe there is irony in my statement.
 
2013-10-15 11:14:24 AM  

redmid17: bonno: runescorpio: Or think up how to make a gun. No ones EVER been able to do that.

It is not easy to make a decent, reliable gun that is capable of killing someone - it is much easier to purchase a mass produced firearm legitimately.

Your argument is RUBBISH. You state it like "we may as well make all bad things legal, because, you know, someone might figure out how to make it anyway". With that thought process, we may as well sell nuclear bombs down at the local supermarket.

No one is going to disagree that buying a mass produced firearm legitimately is easier than creating a decent, reliable gun. A lot of people make them and don't need them to be decent or reliable. That's pretty much the whole point of zip guns.


I guess I should also point out the fallacy of comparing something that can be made from common hardware store components versus something that most nation-states can't put together with aid from highly specialized, expensive equipment and scientists who have actually helped create and run nuclear programs.
 
2013-10-15 11:15:45 AM  

eurotrash: redmid17: eurotrash: No I don't, for all I know it could be my nephew coming home late, locals doing a drunk prank so I get out of the house. There is no possession that is worth a persons life, nothing that a thief would want is something I wouldn't be able to replace.

In a civilized society we give the government monopoly on violence, this is done to avoid a lawless society where the strong prevail and weaker people cower. I know that you will never see it this way, in your world a TV is worth more to you than a fellow human beings life.

Surely you can at least see some irony in that sentence is your response to his scenario of three criminals breaking into one's house to steal things

No, where would the irony be?  Having breakins does not entail a lawless society, being able to act as judge, jury and executioner is. I believe the irony exists in that you believe there is irony in my statement.


Well I will just bold it for you and leave you with the notion that 3 people breaking into a house will generally have the advantage over one person in the house.
 
2013-10-15 11:20:26 AM  
Would someone please decide if this is going to be a race thread or a gun thread?
 
2013-10-15 11:26:13 AM  
Giltric:

What if they aren't there for your possessions?

I don't care because I will leave the area and call police to deal with it

What if they are there to rape your wife and daughter?

I don't care because I will leave the area and call police to deal with it

How would you know what they are there for.

I don't care because I will leave the area and call police to deal with it


Breaking and entering to steal a TV is the gateway to full on home invasion rapes and murders.

This is Argumentum ad ignorantiam

Shoot to kill, you may have just paid it forward and saved the lives of someone like the Petit family.
More likely you would have killed an innocent man

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire,_Connecticut,_home_invasion_mu rd

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2014506/pg1
http://nypost.com/2012/09/28/connecticut-man-shoots-son-dead-after-m is taking-him-for-an-intruder/


Why is it that the TV is not worth taking someones life over....why don't you word it as "someone elses TV is not worth yo ...

If you believe that property is more valuable than life then that is something that you morally will have to live with, I wouldn't value a TV over a life, simple as that, and I am an agnostic.
 
2013-10-15 11:26:54 AM  

Tatterdemalian: Oh shiat, the media will actually have to play the "white African-American" card.


I'm not entirely sure, but I think "African-American" has been retired for the most part  (very 90s, doncha know). We're back to saying "black."

Back in Black!
 
2013-10-15 11:26:55 AM  

Khazar-Khum: OnlyM3: TuteTibiImperes [TotalFark]
To be fair, in Florida, you're 6x more likely to get shot if you're black than if you're white in general. Now tell the rest of the story. For those -fark it, for ALL- shootings. What color is the shooter most likely to be.

May I present...Duke Laguerre, the shooter.

[scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net image 540x720]


That cant be!! A black man would NEVER shoot a black man!! Only whites shoot blacks! Come on this is fark every white man is guilty.
 
2013-10-15 11:29:54 AM  

dabbletech: Would someone please decide if this is going to be a race thread or a gun thread?


[porquenolasdos.gif]
 
2013-10-15 11:30:48 AM  

This text is now purple: Confabulat: Notice how the gun nuts quickly move the argument to home invasions and rape of your wife and children, instead of the actual story.

It's a stretch, but not a huge one. For better or worse, public nudity like this is often considered a sex offense*. Strange people wandering nude in the dead of night are already of reasonably dubious motive.

Likely, probably not? Reasonable... maybe.

* - this is a bug, not a feature.


A naked person wandering or running around at night is much more likely to be a victim of sexual assault than looking to sexually assault someone.
 
2013-10-15 11:34:25 AM  

eurotrash: This text is now purple: Confabulat: Notice how the gun nuts quickly move the argument to home invasions and rape of your wife and children, instead of the actual story.

It's a stretch, but not a huge one. For better or worse, public nudity like this is often considered a sex offense*. Strange people wandering nude in the dead of night are already of reasonably dubious motive.

Likely, probably not? Reasonable... maybe.

* - this is a bug, not a feature.

A naked person wandering or running around at night is much more likely to be a victim of sexual assault than looking to sexually assault someone.


And they are more likely to be strung out on drugs and/or have some type of mental illness than the either two combined.
 
2013-10-15 11:36:33 AM  

eurotrash: Giltric: What if they aren't there for your possessions?
What if they are there to rape your wife and daughter?

I don't care because I will leave the area and call police to deal with it


Somebody's not winning any Father of the Year awards.
 
2013-10-15 11:40:39 AM  

This text is now purple: Literally Addicted: This text is now purple: [armedpatriots.com image 640x360]

Dear god, who created that ad?  They should be raped AND shot.

It's a parody of the Brady Campaign ads. It's also a position eurotrash is actually espousing.


Non sequitur
I have never said anything like that, but thanks for making up arguments for me. Perhaps you should debate honestly or just get out of the thread.
 
2013-10-15 11:41:07 AM  

Bungles: I'm always baffled how in America somebody can shoot somebody and that person is not arrested just as a matter of course, regardless of the "circumstances", because it's a crime being investigated.


You have to change them in 48 hours... lot's of time they like to gather evidence and get the charges correct before arrest. They know who the shooter is and where he lives.
 
2013-10-15 11:41:11 AM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Giltric: But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

Responsible gun owner.


Yeah, he forgot that that line only applies if you're an assassin. Because that's a job. Otherwise you're a crazed gunman, which is mental sickness.
 
2013-10-15 11:41:31 AM  

redmid17: I guess I should also point out the fallacy of comparing something that can be made from common hardware store components versus something that most nation-states can't put together with aid from highly specialized, expensive equipment and scientists who have actually helped create and run nuclear programs.


There are lots of illegal things that can be made easily which are still illegal - for good reasons. Drugs, for example.

My point is that just because someone might make something at home is no reason to mass produce it and sell it legitimately.

Like I said, you may as well sell every single object ever made if that is a valid argument.

Perhaps supermarkets should have meth, cocaine, guns, brass knuckles, cyanide, sharks with lasers.... yeah, that'll make society a much safer place.
 
2013-10-15 11:45:36 AM  

eurotrash: Giltric:

What if they aren't there for your possessions?

I don't care because I will leave the area and call police to deal with it

What if they are there to rape your wife and daughter?

I don't care because I will leave the area and call police to deal with it

How would you know what they are there for.

I don't care because I will leave the area and call police to deal with it


Breaking and entering to steal a TV is the gateway to full on home invasion rapes and murders.
This is Argumentum ad ignorantiam

Shoot to kill, you may have just paid it forward and saved the lives of someone like the Petit family.
More likely you would have killed an innocent man

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire,_Connecticut,_home_invasion_mu rd

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2014506/pg1
http://nypost.com/2012/09/28/connecticut-man-shoots-son-dead-after-m is taking-him-for-an-intruder/

Why is it that the TV is not worth taking someones life over....why don't you word it as "someone elses TV is not worth yo ...

If you believe that property is more valuable than life then that is something that you morally will have to live with, I wouldn't value a TV over a life, simple as that, and I am an agnostic.


Nice to know you would run away as your wife and daughter are being assaulted/raped and possibly murdered. You live alone but not by choice right?

Do you shout at them over your shoulder as you run away? Telling them the rape wont last as long as the guilt you would feel if you tried protecting them from the innocent intruder?

I like how you frame the guy stealing the tv as innocent....


Keep calm and leave your family at the perps mercy.....
 
2013-10-15 11:52:32 AM  

redmid17: eurotrash: redmid17: eurotrash: No I don't, for all I know it could be my nephew coming home late, locals doing a drunk prank so I get out of the house. There is no possession that is worth a persons life, nothing that a thief would want is something I wouldn't be able to replace.

In a civilized society we give the government monopoly on violence, this is done to avoid a lawless society where the strong prevail and weaker people cower. I know that you will never see it this way, in your world a TV is worth more to you than a fellow human beings life.

Surely you can at least see some irony in that sentence is your response to his scenario of three criminals breaking into one's house to steal things

No, where would the irony be?  Having breakins does not entail a lawless society, being able to act as judge, jury and executioner is. I believe the irony exists in that you believe there is irony in my statement.

Well I will just bold it for you and leave you with the notion that 3 people breaking into a house will generally have the advantage over one person in the house.


Let me take the irony away for you, the comparison was between a civilized society and a Mad Max society, does that make it clearer for you?
There will always be stronger people that pray on weaker, the difference is a transparent justice system and monopoly on violence by the government. If you want a vendetta society there are remote areas in Asia minor you can move to.
 
2013-10-15 11:52:45 AM  

notatrollorami: Lady J: HotWingConspiracy: Tat'dGreaser: HotWingConspiracy: putt putt putt

"Hey naked guy, you're naked. You ok?"

"Yes" and/or "F you man"

"Ok"

putt putt putt

That's the only way this could go down? That's it? Just that simple?

Well no, it could have been another GZim tough guy looking for a conflict that he would never ever ever seek out if he wasn't armed and prepped to kill.

He could have just called the police as well if he was really concerned. There is no sensible scenario that ends with this guy getting shot to death.

this. anyone who says otherwise is just waiting for their own chance to mess up their fruit of the looms shouting 'stop running away or I'll shoot' and happening upon someone alone who doesnt stop. and is probably black.

Your politics are showing; that is simply not true. It is entirely plausible that a normal well intentioned person saw a person running naked before the break of dawn, tried to offer help, and ended up in a violent confrontation due to the naked man's irrationality/violence after the naked man was in the car.

///There are many other plausible scenarios, some of which include the shooter being a cold blooded racist murderer. You should stop presuming so much.


Once again, for the benefit of Farkers: Our shooter, Mr Duke Laguerre.

scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2013-10-15 11:52:48 AM  

bonno: redmid17: I guess I should also point out the fallacy of comparing something that can be made from common hardware store components versus something that most nation-states can't put together with aid from highly specialized, expensive equipment and scientists who have actually helped create and run nuclear programs.

There are lots of illegal things that can be made easily which are still illegal - for good reasons. Drugs, for example.

My point is that just because someone might make something at home is no reason to mass produce it and sell it legitimately.

Like I said, you may as well sell every single object ever made if that is a valid argument.

Perhaps supermarkets should have meth, cocaine, guns, brass knuckles, cyanide, sharks with lasers.... yeah, that'll make society a much safer place.


It's an absurd argument. You had a solid enough point as is was. Either way lots of supermarkets do have meth and cocaine available in the pharmacy. They are controlled substances with medical value. Guns and brass knuckles are legal to sell as well in most places. Cyanide isn't as readily as available, but poisons like strychnine exists for a reason. Sharks with lasers is a bit more complicated because ownership of sharks is regulated due to scarcity/endangered status. I don't think the laser is subject to as many laws.

Besides you were the one who put the "we may as well make all bad things legal, because, you know, someone might figure out how to make it anyway" on the table, not him.
 
2013-10-15 11:54:51 AM  
I thought killing people for no good reason was totally normal in Floriduh, stand yer ground and all that. This is news?
 
2013-10-15 11:55:23 AM  

CheatCommando: Giltric: How would you know what they are there for.

How does it feel to live your life as an abject coward, always entertaining the darkest suspicions of everyone you meet and only able to assuage that gnawing terror by carrying a magical talisman that says you are not Afraid, you are a Tough Guy Who No One Messes With?

Man we need better mental health counseling in this country - the level of paranoia you show should make you unfit to carry anything more dangerous than a spoon.


i don't think its fear, I think it's that they really, really fancy themselves with a gun in their hand, and 'defence' is just an excuse, for that deepest fantasy they have that one day they'll get to shoot someone.

amounts to the same, of course
 
2013-10-15 11:57:24 AM  

fusillade762: He told detectives he was driving west on Hollywood Boulevard between 5 and 5:30 a.m. Oct. 6 when he spotted the nude man. He passed by him, then turned around and went back, he told police.

Oh for f*ck's sake. Call the goddamn cops and let them deal with it. Did no one learn anything from the Martin shooting?


*sigh* Why do you think he went back?
 
2013-10-15 12:00:51 PM  

I May Be Crazy But...: spacelord321: Confabulat: Giltric: Shows who you value more...the criminal.

Are you a child? Do you think that is anything any sane person thinks?

Why are you talking like a little baby?

Regardless, he is correct in stating that the burden of understanding that possessions do not equal life is on the thief, not the victim. At least IMHO.

I suggest you be less humble. Grow a pair and show some god damned agency in your own life. If you shoot someone, don't use the "he made me do it" cop out. Own it. Say "I shot him. I chose to take his life."


This is a red flag phrase.
 
2013-10-15 12:03:07 PM  
Haven't you race baiters learned anything from the Trayvon/Zimmerman threads?

Stand your ground protects black people more than it does white people.


Blacks have a 55% success rate defending themselves invoking SYG vs 16% for whites when they invoke SYG.
 
2013-10-15 12:03:44 PM  
Giltric:

Nice to know you would run away as your wife and daughter are being assaulted/raped and possibly murdered. You live alone but not by choice right?

Do you shout at them over your shoulder as you run away? Telling them the rape wont last as long as the guilt you would feel if you tried protecting them from the innocent intruder?


Geez, serious? I guess when someone runs out of arguments these type of silly ad hominems come up. Obviously I would make sure they get out first but this still does not necessitate me shooting anyone.
I am not really sure why it is that every burglar is a rapist but perhaps you have experience?


I like how you frame the guy stealing the tv as innocent....
Where would I be doing that? By stating that I wouldn't want to shoot someone on sight?

Not every situation is solved with a gun, now that said I am a believer in self defense if there is no other option I would take a life to save my own or someone close I would however be prepared for a court date after that. All I am saying is that the SYG law has no place in a civilized society.
 
2013-10-15 12:04:10 PM  

notatrollorami: Lady J: HotWingConspiracy: Tat'dGreaser: HotWingConspiracy: putt putt putt

"Hey naked guy, you're naked. You ok?"

"Yes" and/or "F you man"

"Ok"

putt putt putt

That's the only way this could go down? That's it? Just that simple?

Well no, it could have been another GZim tough guy looking for a conflict that he would never ever ever seek out if he wasn't armed and prepped to kill.

He could have just called the police as well if he was really concerned. There is no sensible scenario that ends with this guy getting shot to death.

this. anyone who says otherwise is just waiting for their own chance to mess up their fruit of the looms shouting 'stop running away or I'll shoot' and happening upon someone alone who doesnt stop. and is probably black.

Your politics are showing; that is simply not true. It is entirely plausible that a normal well intentioned person saw a person running naked before the break of dawn, tried to offer help, and ended up in a violent confrontation due to the naked man's irrationality/violence after the naked man was in the car.

///There are many other plausible scenarios, some of which include the shooter being a cold blooded racist murderer. You should stop presuming so much.


Do your politics demand that you make shiat up like "the naked man was in the car"?
 
2013-10-15 12:04:23 PM  

eurotrash: redmid17: eurotrash: redmid17: eurotrash: No I don't, for all I know it could be my nephew coming home late, locals doing a drunk prank so I get out of the house. There is no possession that is worth a persons life, nothing that a thief would want is something I wouldn't be able to replace.

In a civilized society we give the government monopoly on violence, this is done to avoid a lawless society where the strong prevail and weaker people cower. I know that you will never see it this way, in your world a TV is worth more to you than a fellow human beings life.

Surely you can at least see some irony in that sentence is your response to his scenario of three criminals breaking into one's house to steal things

No, where would the irony be?  Having breakins does not entail a lawless society, being able to act as judge, jury and executioner is. I believe the irony exists in that you believe there is irony in my statement.

Well I will just bold it for you and leave you with the notion that 3 people breaking into a house will generally have the advantage over one person in the house.

Let me take the irony away for you, the comparison was between a civilized society and a Mad Max society, does that make it clearer for you?
There will always be stronger people that pray on weaker, the difference is a transparent justice system and monopoly on violence by the government. If you want a vendetta society there are remote areas in Asia minor you can move to.


Yes and it was a poorly worded and poorly supported argument. You talk about giving the government a monopoly on violence in response to an argument that criminals might decide to use violence. Clearly this will happen in civilized societies and uncivilized societies. It's happened everywhere in the history of humanity at all times.

A government monopoly on violence means you don't believe in self-defense *at all.*

A lack of a government monopoly on violence does not necessitate sliding into Mad Max land. Hell I find it hilarious you are espousing a government monopoly on violence as something only a civilized country would have, but your own country allows you to use violence in defense of yourself, family, home, and property.
 
2013-10-15 12:05:51 PM  

eurotrash: redmid17: eurotrash: redmid17: eurotrash: No I don't, for all I know it could be my nephew coming home late, locals doing a drunk prank so I get out of the house. There is no possession that is worth a persons life, nothing that a thief would want is something I wouldn't be able to replace.

In a civilized society we give the government monopoly on violence, this is done to avoid a lawless society where the strong prevail and weaker people cower. I know that you will never see it this way, in your world a TV is worth more to you than a fellow human beings life.

Surely you can at least see some irony in that sentence is your response to his scenario of three criminals breaking into one's house to steal things

No, where would the irony be?  Having breakins does not entail a lawless society, being able to act as judge, jury and executioner is. I believe the irony exists in that you believe there is irony in my statement.

Well I will just bold it for you and leave you with the notion that 3 people breaking into a house will generally have the advantage over one person in the house.

Let me take the irony away for you, the comparison was between a civilized society and a Mad Max society, does that make it clearer for you?
There will always be stronger people that pray on weaker, the difference is a transparent justice system and monopoly on violence by the government. If you want a vendetta society there are remote areas in Asia minor you can move to.


I believe it has been established that Americans do not believe, nor want, a total monopoly of violence to be in the hands of the government.  We have placed that monopoly into the law, and given our people and the government the ability to exercise it.  I support castle doctrine and stand your ground laws...   I propose that the more enlightened society is the one where the people are entrusted with judiciously exercising violence when necessary.  It is in lesser societies that the people are at the complete mercy of the government and criminals...
 
2013-10-15 12:06:43 PM  

eurotrash: Not every situation is solved with a gun, now that said I am a believer in self defense if there is no other option I would take a life to save my own or someone close I would however be prepared for a court date after that. All I am saying is that the SYG law has no place in a civilized society.


If that is what you believe, you did a horrible job of framing it in your posts.
 
2013-10-15 12:07:48 PM  

redmid17: Besides you were the one who put the "we may as well make all bad things legal, because, you know, someone might figure out how to make it anyway" on the table, not him.


That is a good point. I will shut up. Obviously my method of reverse-psyching has the opposite effect to what I was intending.

Chortle.
 
2013-10-15 12:09:35 PM  

eurotrash: Giltric:

Nice to know you would run away as your wife and daughter are being assaulted/raped and possibly murdered. You live alone but not by choice right?

Do you shout at them over your shoulder as you run away? Telling them the rape wont last as long as the guilt you would feel if you tried protecting them from the innocent intruder?

Geez, serious? I guess when someone runs out of arguments these type of silly ad hominems come up. Obviously I would make sure they get out first but this still does not necessitate me shooting anyone.
I am not really sure why it is that every burglar is a rapist but perhaps you have experience?


I like how you frame the guy stealing the tv as innocent....
Where would I be doing that? By stating that I wouldn't want to shoot someone on sight?

Not every situation is solved with a gun, now that said I am a believer in self defense if there is no other option I would take a life to save my own or someone close I would however be prepared for a court date after that. All I am saying is that the SYG law has no place in a civilized society.


I'm responding to your own words.

Would you like me to cite them?

I noticed that you yourself left out the incriminating parts and are now trying to pretend that...the bolded part is not what you meant.


What if they are there to rape your wife and daughter?

I don't care because I will leave the area and call police to deal with it
 
2013-10-15 12:19:44 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: notatrollorami: Lady J: HotWingConspiracy: Tat'dGreaser: HotWingConspiracy: putt putt putt

"Hey naked guy, you're naked. You ok?"

"Yes" and/or "F you man"

"Ok"

putt putt putt

That's the only way this could go down? That's it? Just that simple?

Well no, it could have been another GZim tough guy looking for a conflict that he would never ever ever seek out if he wasn't armed and prepped to kill.

He could have just called the police as well if he was really concerned. There is no sensible scenario that ends with this guy getting shot to death.

this. anyone who says otherwise is just waiting for their own chance to mess up their fruit of the looms shouting 'stop running away or I'll shoot' and happening upon someone alone who doesnt stop. and is probably black.

Your politics are showing; that is simply not true. It is entirely plausible that a normal well intentioned person saw a person running naked before the break of dawn, tried to offer help, and ended up in a violent confrontation due to the naked man's irrationality/violence after the naked man was in the car.

///There are many other plausible scenarios, some of which include the shooter being a cold blooded racist murderer. You should stop presuming so much.

Do your politics demand that you make shiat up like "the naked man was in the car"?


Of course not, though yours are well documented and ensure your commentary is viewed through the appropriate prism. I simply responded to the claim that there is no way this situation could reasonably result in the naked guy being shot.

There is.

As to what actually occurred I don't pretend to know. Especially not based on the very limited info in that article. Many others, including yourself, choose to make presumptions that support preconceived notions.
 
2013-10-15 12:33:17 PM  

eurotrash: I find it peculiar that all questions/theories are focused on the victim, clearly Stand Your Ground is not a law that should have found it's way in to the legal system. It is effectively legalizing murder whichever way you cut it.

I have no issue with self defense laws but SYG is not that, the driver created the situation where a death was the outcome, SYG creates situations where people will die unnecessarily. I know it's Florida but why is this law not repealed immediately?


Most of the speculation is around the guy who was shot because more details have been released about him, which gives people something to talk about.     The shooter obviously lawyered up, which is exactly what he should do.

This idea that you can get away with murder by simply claiming stand your ground is a great soundbite, but is hogwash in practice.
There has to be evidence that would give a reasonable person enough reason to agree there was reason to fear for your life or great bodily harm.    You also have to consider the millions of incriminating factors that not only make you look bad--like the internet search you did a few months ago about the movie "a perfect murder"--but also those factors that are completely outside of your control that make the victim look good.

Stand your ground laws recognize that people are not only innocent until proven guilty, but also the last thing somebody needs after they had to to kill someone is get arrested, spend at least a few nights in jail, and even possibly lose their reputation, job and home.   Some go so far to say that the law is intended to stop these concerns from causing a person to hesitate in a true self-defense situation and wind up dead as a result.     As has already been mentioned, no charges being filed is not the same as no investigation being done.
 
2013-10-15 12:40:51 PM  

FullMetalPanda: So is the family of the victim going to hire some mercenaries to torture his "friends" several months before letting they die of exposure?  I'm assuming they'll use one of the deli slicers on their fingers and toes first.  And a hot iron on standby to cauterize the wounds each time they slice.  Once the fingers and toes are gone, they'll move to the limbs.

Then they cut off their noses and tongues.  If males, castrate them.  If females, hot hair irons into their hoohaa.

After a month or so of this toss them on the side of the road with placards stating it was so worth it to play that joke on their "friend".


"Mr. Sulu, Remind me never to piss you off."

/Seriously, tone it down a bit.
//I agree that the so-called friends should be punished, but DAMN.
 
2013-10-15 01:10:55 PM  

notatrollorami: Your politics are showing; that is simply not true. It is entirely plausible that a normal well intentioned person saw a person running naked before the break of dawn, tried to offer help, and ended up in a violent confrontation due to the naked man's irrationality/violence after the naked man was in the car.

///There are many other plausible scenarios, some of which include the shooter being a cold blooded racist murderer. You should stop presuming so much.

Do your politics demand that you make shiat up like "the naked man was in the car"?

Of course not, though yours are well documented and ensure your commentary is viewed through the appropriate prism.


Why are you documenting me? That's farking weird, man.

 I simply responded to the claim that there is no way this situation could reasonably result in the naked guy being shot.

There is.


No, not really.

As to what actually occurred I don't pretend to know. Especially not based on the very limited info in that article. Many others, including yourself, choose to make presumptions that support preconceived notions.

You mean presumptions like that nude man got in to the car? You're really above the fray. A farking saint you are.
 
2013-10-15 01:19:10 PM  
WTF> Serious how in the hell is this guy not charged with at least involuntary manslaughter?
 
2013-10-15 01:19:55 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: notatrollorami: Your politics are showing; that is simply not true. It is entirely plausible that a normal well intentioned person saw a person running naked before the break of dawn, tried to offer help, and ended up in a violent confrontation due to the naked man's irrationality/violence after the naked man was in the car.

///There are many other plausible scenarios, some of which include the shooter being a cold blooded racist murderer. You should stop presuming so much.

Do your politics demand that you make shiat up like "the naked man was in the car"?

Of course not, though yours are well documented and ensure your commentary is viewed through the appropriate prism.

Why are you documenting me? That's farking weird, man.

 I simply responded to the claim that there is no way this situation could reasonably result in the naked guy being shot.

There is.

No, not really.

As to what actually occurred I don't pretend to know. Especially not based on the very limited info in that article. Many others, including yourself, choose to make presumptions that support preconceived notions.

You mean presumptions like that nude man got in to the car? You're really above the fray. A farking saint you are.


You may or may not be aware of it but by posting on this site with great regularity you are "documenting" your perspective on things.

If you are of the opinion that the man who had his face eaten off by a naked unarmed man would have been wrong to shoot the man eating his face then yes, there really is no way this shooting was justified. Otherwise.......

I made no presumption of anything; I clearly indicated that was only one of an array of possible scenarios some of which include the shooter being a murderer.

//I should know better than to respond to such obvious trolling but I've got to do something while sitting in the bathroom and I'm tired of solitaire.
 
2013-10-15 01:24:47 PM  

notatrollorami: HotWingConspiracy: notatrollorami: Your politics are showing; that is simply not true. It is entirely plausible that a normal well intentioned person saw a person running naked before the break of dawn, tried to offer help, and ended up in a violent confrontation due to the naked man's irrationality/violence after the naked man was in the car.

///There are many other plausible scenarios, some of which include the shooter being a cold blooded racist murderer. You should stop presuming so much.

Do your politics demand that you make shiat up like "the naked man was in the car"?

Of course not, though yours are well documented and ensure your commentary is viewed through the appropriate prism.

Why are you documenting me? That's farking weird, man.

 I simply responded to the claim that there is no way this situation could reasonably result in the naked guy being shot.

There is.

No, not really.

As to what actually occurred I don't pretend to know. Especially not based on the very limited info in that article. Many others, including yourself, choose to make presumptions that support preconceived notions.

You mean presumptions like that nude man got in to the car? You're really above the fray. A farking saint you are.

You may or may not be aware of it but by posting on this site with great regularity you are "documenting" your perspective on things.


And you're taking notes on me. That's your life.

If you are of the opinion that the man who had his face eaten off by a naked unarmed man would have been wrong to shoot the man eating his face then yes, there really is no way this shooting was justified. Otherwise.......

Yes, I recall that he was in a car, saw him, then turned around and came back to have a chat with the face eater.

I made no presumption of anything; I clearly indicated that was only one of an array of possible scenarios some of which include the shooter being a murderer.

Maybe try to present something plausible?
 
2013-10-15 02:05:23 PM  

d23: Just because someone climbs in your window doesn't necessarily means you can yell "he's coming right fer me!" and shoot in the head.


I feel the same way about that as I do about abortion. I like to think I'd take the higher road, but I'm not gonna knock anyone who doesn't.

Once you've smashed somebody's window at 2 AM and gone rummaging through their junk drawer I don't really care what happens to you. If your victim has the decency to not blow you away while you're on your knees blowing sorrys through your snot bubbles, good on them, but if they choose otherwise... well... maybe you shouldn't have smashed his window at 2 AM and come stumbling through his house.

Literally Addicted: Dear god, who created that ad? They should be raped AND shot.


A bunch of gun-humping neckbeards with no sense of decency, terrible photoshop skills and all the integrity of a napkin in the ocean.

The nice thing about it is that it's a convenient, self-imposed "scarlet letter" for gun threads. Anybody who posts it without a hint of sarcasm is somebody who doesn't have an opinion worthy of attention.
 
2013-10-15 02:21:50 PM  

skozlaw: all the integrity of a napkin in the ocean


I like this phrase...now I can't wait to find someone to use it on (or to describe).
 
2013-10-15 02:32:43 PM  
Khazar-Khum:


Once again, for the benefit of Farkers: Our shooter, Mr Duke Laguerre.

[scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net image 540x720]


Please note: That is "A" Duke Laguerre but it may not be "THE" Duke Laguerre who fired the shot. Remember the Aurora shooting when people rushed to Facebook and found James Holmes, Tea Party supporter.
 
2013-10-15 02:32:54 PM  

grimlock1972: WTF> Serious how in the hell is this guy not charged with at least involuntary manslaughter?


I suspect it has something to do with us not having all the facts.  You know, things that might speak to why a naked man could reasonably think he could run ten miles barefoot.  Or why a naked man got in two fights in one night.  Or what he was doing naked in the first place.

As I said upthread, Tox Screen or STFU.  I'm willing to bet Mr. Deceased Precious Snowflake had some serious chemicals running through his blood stream at the time of his death.  Chemicals that lead him to do things like attack random strangers, or think he could run ten miles naked and barefoot.

You know, evidence that could support a claim such as:  I was just driving down the street and I see this naked guy acting the fool, so I pull over to see if he needs help and the crazy starts punching me.  I thought the fool was trying to kill me, so I shot him."   Which FYI, happens to be a valid claim of self defense just about everywhere.

Facts. How about we wait for them before deciding that a travesty of justice has occurred.
 
2013-10-15 02:36:46 PM  

skozlaw: A bunch of gun-humping neckbeards with no sense of decency, terrible photoshop skills and all the integrity of a napkin in the ocean.


That's the first time I've ever seen 4chan described that way...
 
2013-10-15 02:57:31 PM  
dnrtfa but if the guy is dead, how can they confirm the story that he was 'running home nude because his friend took his clothes'? (in the middle of the night in October?)
 
2013-10-15 03:05:58 PM  
He punches friends in the face, nothing any libtard can say will change my already made up mind. Next.
 
2013-10-15 03:21:53 PM  
Oh, Floriduh ...
 
2013-10-15 03:26:38 PM  

Click Click D'oh: grimlock1972: WTF> Serious how in the hell is this guy not charged with at least involuntary manslaughter?

I suspect it has something to do with us not having all the facts.  You know, things that might speak to why a naked man could reasonably think he could run ten miles barefoot.  Or why a naked man got in two fights in one night.  Or what he was doing naked in the first place.

As I said upthread, Tox Screen or STFU.  I'm willing to bet Mr. Deceased Precious Snowflake had some serious chemicals running through his blood stream at the time of his death.  Chemicals that lead him to do things like attack random strangers, or think he could run ten miles naked and barefoot.

You know, evidence that could support a claim such as:  I was just driving down the street and I see this naked guy acting the fool, so I pull over to see if he needs help and the crazy starts punching me.  I thought the fool was trying to kill me, so I shot him."   Which FYI, happens to be a valid claim of self defense just about everywhere.

Facts. How about we wait for them before deciding that a travesty of justice has occurred.


Even if he's PCPd out of his mind, and a naked dude is punching you, you're in a CAR.

Drive away, roll up the window, and call the police.

I'm all for self-defense and gun owners' rights, but it seems this country is becoming more trigger happy every day.

"This isn't normal! F*CKING SHOOT IT!"
 
2013-10-15 03:58:36 PM  

Tatterdemalian: Oh shiat, the media will actually have to play the "white African-American" card.


Can we called them "Obamas"?
 
2013-10-15 05:00:30 PM  

nanim: dnrtfa but if the guy is dead, how can they confirm the story that he was 'running home nude because his friend took his clothes'? (in the middle of the night in October?)


Dude it's still summertime in St. Pete. It's surely very very warm in Hollywood. We don't do seasons like you northern folk.
 
2013-10-15 05:03:06 PM  
redmid17:

Yes and it was a poorly worded and poorly supported argument. You talk about giving the government a monopoly on violence in response to an argument that criminals might decide to use violence. Clearly this will happen in civilized societies and uncivilized societies. It's happened everywhere in the history of humanity at all times.

A government monopoly on violence means you don't believe in self-defense *at all.*

A lack of a government monopoly on violence does not necessitate sliding into Mad Max land. H ...


I don't know if you are dense or if you are trolling, perhaps you don't understand what "monopoly on violence" actually means. Let me help you, it means that the only entity that is allowed to determine what is a crime and mete out punishment is the government. SYG undermines the governmental monopoly of violence since an individual determines what is a crime and then promptly goes to sentencing.

A lack of governmental lack of monopoly of violence is absolutely a slide to vigilantes that operate outside the law. This is why police and judicial system clamps down on vigilantes so hard, a system where the individuals determine a crime and punishes an individual for that crime makes the criminal system useless.

Also, a belief in a judicial system does not at all mean a non belief in self defense, there is ample room in common law to permit self defense, SYG however goes beyond that, I just feel sorry for you that you are somehow unable to see that. Although, you do differentiate between the two since you implicitly acknowledge that SYG does erode the judicial system, you just don't care.
 
2013-10-15 05:08:34 PM  

Lernaeus: I'm all for self-defense and gun owners' rights, but it seems this country is becoming more trigger happy every day.


For 100 years the country got deeper into  "you are legally obligated to run away from _______"

finally the laws start giving self esteem and self respect back to the people instead of taking it away from them and you complain?

The laws finally start giving the benefit of the doubt to the person being attacked instead of protecting the person attacking them and you see that as a problem?

Are you a criminal defense attorney?

Bleeding heart maybe?
 
2013-10-15 05:15:40 PM  

twiztedjustin: He punches friends in the face, nothing any libtard can say will change my already made up mind. Next.


All we know so far is dead guy's friend CLAIMS dead guy punched him in the face, and all we know about the "friend" is he's a clothing and skateboard thief.  Friend could easily be feeling guilty about his part in getting the guy killed.
 
2013-10-15 05:15:49 PM  

eurotrash: A lack of governmental lack of monopoly of violence is absolutely a slide to vigilantes that operate outside the law.


Yeah yeah....and if we let people get gay married it's a slide towards letting people marry turtles or multiple animals or people or a mix of both.


.
 
2013-10-15 05:19:32 PM  
Not for nothing but if the guy in the car is so guilty of one thing or another in this case.....why didn't he just shoot the naked guy and leave?

I doubt there were a lot of witnesses at 5 am......
 
2013-10-15 05:30:28 PM  

eurotrash: I don't know if you are dense or if you are trolling, perhaps you don't understand what "monopoly on violence" actually means. Let me help you, it means that the only entity that is allowed to determine what is a crime and mete out punishment is the government. SYG undermines the governmental monopoly of violence since an individual determines what is a crime and then promptly goes to sentencing.


That's not what it means. A monopoly on violence means that there is only one thing capable of providing it. Here is the definition of monopoly:

1) the exclusive possession or control of the supply or trade in a commodity or service

The only thing that "the government has a monopoly on violence" can mean is that they are in exclusive control of it, which they obviously aren't. There is no decision factor in that unless you convey that actors outside of government agents can be granted "violence" or the ability to commit violence. You didn't bring that up. You brought a forth a very simplistic argument and the proceeded to contradict yourself further down the thread when you said the self-defense was a right.

I'm not dense. You just down support your argument(s) very well, which is what I said in the first place.
 
2013-10-15 05:37:56 PM  

redmid17: eurotrash: I don't know if you are dense or if you are trolling, perhaps you don't understand what "monopoly on violence" actually means. Let me help you, it means that the only entity that is allowed to determine what is a crime and mete out punishment is the government. SYG undermines the governmental monopoly of violence since an individual determines what is a crime and then promptly goes to sentencing.

That's not what it means. A monopoly on violence means that there is only one thing capable of providing it. Here is the definition of monopoly:

1) the exclusive possession or control of the supply or trade in a commodity or service

The only thing that "the government has a monopoly on violence" can mean is that they are in exclusive control of it, which they obviously aren't. There is no decision factor in that unless you convey that actors outside of government agents can be granted "violence" or the ability to commit violence. You didn't bring that up. You brought a forth a very simplistic argument and the proceeded to contradict yourself further down the thread when you said the self-defense was a right.

I'm not dense. You just down support your argument(s) very well, which is what I said in the first place.


To add on here, this is even entirely avoiding the abstract argument that we have a recognized inherent right to self-defense that the government *cannot* grant us. Their role is to codify the specifics of when and where, so the government, in any abstract sense, cannot be the sole controller or provider of violence.

SYG is not necessarily a bad idea. I would argument that it is a decent idea with a farking horrible implementation in Florida. Even something as simple as a "one cannot implement the confrontation" would temper events greatly.
 
2013-10-15 06:52:51 PM  

Click Click D'oh: That's the first time I've ever seen 4chan described that way...


Well, if that's the real source, it's not really an inapt description.
 
2013-10-15 07:04:41 PM  
Lernaeus:
Even if he's PCPd out of his mind, and a naked dude is punching you, you're in a CAR.

We know for a fact that he was in his car when he fired the shot?  That seems to be missing from the article, which states that the police have not released details of the altercation.

Would you please share your source with us.
 
2013-10-15 10:38:50 PM  

Les Comdien Masque: Khazar-Khum:


Once again, for the benefit of Farkers: Our shooter, Mr Duke Laguerre.

[scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net image 540x720]

Please note: That is "A" Duke Laguerre but it may not be "THE" Duke Laguerre who fired the shot. Remember the Aurora shooting when people rushed to Facebook and found James Holmes, Tea Party supporter.


He is the only Duke Laguerre in Hollywood, FL.
 
2013-10-16 01:28:30 AM  

Lernaeus: I'm all for self-defense and gun owners' rights, but it seems this country is becoming more trigger happy every day.

"This isn't normal! F*CKING SHOOT IT!"


images4.wikia.nocookie.net
 
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