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(CNBC)   More and more Americans are opting for an early retirement rather than hold out hope their 401Ks and pensions will be there in ten years   (cnbc.com) divider line 125
    More: Scary, public sector workers  
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5717 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Oct 2013 at 5:36 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-14 09:56:41 PM  
Americans are getting older. That's why more are retiring. We've already talked about this for 20 years. THIS is the strain on the system. We ready?
 
2013-10-14 10:29:14 PM  
...and now that they can get affordable health care without staying in a job they hate, they can spend their middle years doing something they may enjoy.

Terrible.
 
2013-10-14 10:30:23 PM  
Why are Americans opting for early retirement? Let's see. Oh, we're talking about California public employees.

Well, that pretty much covers the whole USA then.

As for the 401k, save more, invest wisely and max out employer contributions. Remember that the markets are never a sure thing, but history shows long-term investing pays off.
 
2013-10-14 10:45:52 PM  

what_now: ...and now that they can get affordable health care without staying in a job they hate, they can spend their middle years doing something they may enjoy.

Terrible.


Yeah, that's not assured. They have f*cked up this roll-out royally.
 
2013-10-14 11:58:15 PM  

NewportBarGuy: what_now: ...and now that they can get affordable health care without staying in a job they hate, they can spend their middle years doing something they may enjoy.

Terrible.

Yeah, that's not assured. They have f*cked up this roll-out royally.


TFA is about California.  California's exchange is apparently working quite well... so... there's that.
 
2013-10-15 12:10:36 AM  

what_now: ...and now that they can get affordable health care without staying in a job they hate, they can spend their middle years doing something they may enjoy.

Terrible.


My best friend's in-laws (who I know quite well) did this.  They are a few years away from collecting SS.  Not too long ago, the mother in-law had a serious illness which she overcame.  Their insurance dropped them like a blue-hot nuclear potato.  Now they can get insurance again.  They're both rabid teabaggers.  I'm anxious to see how it plays out with them..
 
2013-10-15 01:06:21 AM  
"More and more Americans are opting for an early retirement rather than hold out hope their 401Ks and pensions will be there in ten years"
So um ... isnt this a GOOD thing?
More retiring people = more job opening = lower unemployment rate = better economy = less chance that things are screwed up in 10 years.

WHY are we raising the retirement age and not lowering it???
 
2013-10-15 01:06:22 AM  
I don't think subby read the article (that's a shocker, I know). It has nothing to do with 401ks.
 
2013-10-15 01:07:58 AM  

AirForceVet: As for the 401k, save more, invest wisely and max out employer contributions. Remember that the markets are never a sure thing, but history shows long-term investing pays off.


Except that the markets have always done well over the long term.
Pretty much always.

long term of course
short term = gambling and should be taxed as such
 
2013-10-15 02:12:41 AM  
California state workers chose to retire during the recession more due to the fact that they were being furloughed and taking a 15% cut in pay at one point. Many of those that were reasonably close to retirement chose to just start collecting their pensions, since in many cases they'd be taking home as much or more than when they were working. It had little to do with "oh noes my pension is going away forever". CalPERS is rock solid, despite what some of the panic brigades would like people to believe.
 
2013-10-15 05:42:02 AM  
good good. at last the baby boomers can end their days in a medicated, gentrified state until they choose to go soylent green and open up career opportunities, the ones that never knock
 
2013-10-15 05:45:59 AM  

Krieghund: I don't think subby read the article (that's a shocker, I know). It has nothing to do with 401ks.


Came here to say this.

/Left satisfied, yet vaguely depressed.
 
2013-10-15 05:48:31 AM  

namatad: "More and more Americans are opting for an early retirement rather than hold out hope their 401Ks and pensions will be there in ten years"
So um ... isnt this a GOOD thing?
More retiring people = more job opening = lower unemployment rate = better economy = less chance that things are screwed up in 10 years.

WHY are we raising the retirement age and not lowering it???


Maybe because the government has to pay more money to retirees than it does to unemployed people.

It's a myth that governments want to lower unemployment, their financial benefactors (big business) like high unemployment because that is how companies can really screw workers. If they're grateful just to have a job, they will work for the little money and under awful conditions. What governments want is to have the voters think they want to lower unemployment, while not actually doing so at all.
 
2013-10-15 05:51:49 AM  
The wife and I plan to retire by 50, so that leaves us 15 years. I don't think she'll ever fully retire, because she's a surgeon, but she'll probably end up teaching when we're older.

But at 50, it's all about traveling and relaxation.
 
2013-10-15 05:58:21 AM  
Yeah they retire but instead of someone replacing them, their work will probably be divide up between a few people that wont get any extra money.

Dad just retired a few months ago and he is 70, but he still does odd jobs. If he ever retired he would die of boredom. He is pissed enough he has to take it easy because of his knee surgery
 
2013-10-15 06:00:35 AM  

Nidiot: If they're grateful just to have a job, they will work for the little money and under awful conditions.


which actually just farks over the companies. Henry Ford understood this very well, it's a big part of why he paid his employees so well. Well eventually he did, at first he paid like everyone else, had the same problems as everyone else and decided that was no way to run a company.
 
2013-10-15 06:08:16 AM  

groppet: Yeah they retire but instead of someone replacing them, their work will probably be divide up between a few people that wont get any extra money.

Dad just retired a few months ago and he is 70, but he still does odd jobs. If he ever retired he would die of boredom. He is pissed enough he has to take it easy because of his knee surgery


seems to be the way at so many companies. people are laid off off, fired, retire or move on to other things and are not replaced. year after year of this and you have employees that can barely function under the load. does not matter to those in charge, they only have interest in the bottom line. another penny's return to well heeled investors is all that counts.
 
2013-10-15 06:23:07 AM  
Scary?  This is actually a good thing.  More people who retire, the more jobs that open up.  Since most retiring people are at the top of career, that also means it is good jobs becoming available, and that the younger generations can finally move up into something that doesn't pay a good wage in 1978, which their old fogey bosses, who just retired, thought was perfectly reasonable.
 
2013-10-15 06:25:26 AM  
I'm going to retire at 51. I will have 30 years of service in my position.
It's time to enjoy life and let the young whippersnapper take over.
I fully intend to spoil my future grandchildren to the max.
 
2013-10-15 06:26:57 AM  
This is because employers don't want to hire the olds.

/Plenty of unskilled jobs out there that pay 1974 wages.
 
2013-10-15 06:35:26 AM  

namatad: "More and more Americans are opting for an early retirement rather than hold out hope their 401Ks and pensions will be there in ten years"
So um ... isnt this a GOOD thing?
More retiring people = more job opening = lower unemployment rate = better economy = less chance that things are screwed up in 10 years.

WHY are we raising the retirement age and not lowering it???


Wow. I don't even know where to start with this post. The percentage of Americans who are producing the goods and services that we all consume is dropping, and is going to continue to drop over the next 15 years, and then stay pretty low for the next 20 years. That's not a better economy. A 1% unemployment rate in a country with 60% of the population not in the job market is worse than a 10% unemployment rate in a country with only 30% of the population not in the job market.
 
2013-10-15 06:36:20 AM  

AirForceVet: As for the 401k, save more, invest wisely and max out employer contributions. Remember that the markets are never a sure thing, but history shows long-term investing pays off.


THIS THIS THIS.

Save early, save consistently.  If you are 25 making the median wage and save 15% of your incomeat the historical return average, you will have over $1.5M in the bank by 55.

Why aren't kids taught this?
 
2013-10-15 06:51:36 AM  

DrPainMD: namatad: "More and more Americans are opting for an early retirement rather than hold out hope their 401Ks and pensions will be there in ten years"
So um ... isnt this a GOOD thing?
More retiring people = more job opening = lower unemployment rate = better economy = less chance that things are screwed up in 10 years.

WHY are we raising the retirement age and not lowering it???

Wow. I don't even know where to start with this post. The percentage of Americans who are producing the goods and services that we all consume is dropping, and is going to continue to drop over the next 15 years, and then stay pretty low for the next 20 years. That's not a better economy. A 1% unemployment rate in a country with 60% of the population not in the job market is worse than a 10% unemployment rate in a country with only 30% of the population not in the job market.


Liberals think of economics as a zero-sum game; they don't realize that a 30 y.o. can't support a dozen pensioners for the last two decades of life.

Also, the reason state employee retirement benefits are at risk is that they were overly generous packages negotiated by state employee unions promising votes, primarily to Democrats.

If you want those kinds of benefits when you retire, put money in a 401K.
 
2013-10-15 06:52:15 AM  
Oh Father Obama, please pass a gubmint law that will save us from this travesty.  Please let the program take a $1 in and return $0.10, oh wait, that's Social Security.  Never mind.
 
2013-10-15 06:53:02 AM  

UberDave: My best friend's in-laws (who I know quite well) did this.  They are a few years away from collecting SS.  Not too long ago, the mother in-law had a serious illness which she overcame.  Their insurance dropped them like a blue-hot nuclear potato.  Now they can get insurance again.  They're both rabid teabaggers.  I'm anxious to see how it plays out with them..


You've just predicted what will happen yourself. They're teabaggers. They lack any ability to reason rationally, and can only spew talking points.

They will profit from the changes, and at the same time, will decry those very changes as the worst thing to happen to America, ever. And they will not be even slightly troubled by the paradox.

/You know I'm right.
 
2013-10-15 06:53:37 AM  
Ummm.... what is the retirement age in the states?
Here it's 67.
 
2013-10-15 06:56:06 AM  

Animatronik: DrPainMD: namatad: "More and more Americans are opting for an early retirement rather than hold out hope their 401Ks and pensions will be there in ten years"
So um ... isnt this a GOOD thing?
More retiring people = more job opening = lower unemployment rate = better economy = less chance that things are screwed up in 10 years.

WHY are we raising the retirement age and not lowering it???

Wow. I don't even know where to start with this post. The percentage of Americans who are producing the goods and services that we all consume is dropping, and is going to continue to drop over the next 15 years, and then stay pretty low for the next 20 years. That's not a better economy. A 1% unemployment rate in a country with 60% of the population not in the job market is worse than a 10% unemployment rate in a country with only 30% of the population not in the job market.

Liberals think of economics as a zero-sum game; they don't realize that a 30 y.o. can't support a dozen pensioners for the last two decades of life.

Also, the reason state employee retirement benefits are at risk is that they were overly generous packages negotiated by state employee unions promising votes, primarily to Democrats.

If you want those kinds of benefits when you retire, put money in a 401K.


Liberals were always told there would be no math.
 
2013-10-15 06:57:19 AM  

Some Coke Drinking Guy: Scary?  This is actually a good thing.  More people who retire, the more jobs that open up.  Since most retiring people are at the top of career, that also means it is good jobs becoming available, and that the younger generations can finally move up into something that doesn't pay a good wage in 1978, which their old fogey bosses, who just retired, thought was perfectly reasonable.


The benefits that were negotiated for govt employees were based on shorter life expectancies and a younger population, and on top of that were ridiculous anyway, in many instances. We need people to retire later because we can't support them for 20-30 years, and in many cases we can't replace their skillsets. People who are counting on state govt pensions may be making a mistake...
 
2013-10-15 07:00:37 AM  

Animatronik: Some Coke Drinking Guy: Scary?  This is actually a good thing.  More people who retire, the more jobs that open up.  Since most retiring people are at the top of career, that also means it is good jobs becoming available, and that the younger generations can finally move up into something that doesn't pay a good wage in 1978, which their old fogey bosses, who just retired, thought was perfectly reasonable.

The benefits that were negotiated for govt employees were based on shorter life expectancies and a younger population, and on top of that were ridiculous anyway, in many instances. We need people to retire later because we can't support them for 20-30 years, and in many cases we can't replace their skillsets. People who are counting on state govt pensions may be making a mistake...


We also need old people to die, and not consume their accumulated assets in their last few years trying to stay young and healthy.   As a nation we're eating our seed corn, who leaves houses and property and assets to their kids anymore?   If every generation has to start from scratch now, how do we accumulate wealth?
 
2013-10-15 07:09:52 AM  
3.bp.blogspot.com
time yet?
 
2013-10-15 07:10:12 AM  

MemeSlave: We also need old people to die, and not consume their accumulated assets in their last few years trying to stay young and healthy.   As a nation we're eating our seed corn, who leaves houses and property and assets to their kids anymore?   If every generation has to start from scratch now, how do we accumulate wealth?


The system is designed to extract end-of-life wealth by default.
If you have assets, they will be used up by the time you're at the end of your terminal illness, unless you go quick and unexpectedly and have arranged your legal instruments to prevent this theft.
 
2013-10-15 07:11:13 AM  

MemeSlave: Animatronik: Some Coke Drinking Guy: Scary?  This is actually a good thing.  More people who retire, the more jobs that open up.  Since most retiring people are at the top of career, that also means it is good jobs becoming available, and that the younger generations can finally move up into something that doesn't pay a good wage in 1978, which their old fogey bosses, who just retired, thought was perfectly reasonable.

The benefits that were negotiated for govt employees were based on shorter life expectancies and a younger population, and on top of that were ridiculous anyway, in many instances. We need people to retire later because we can't support them for 20-30 years, and in many cases we can't replace their skillsets. People who are counting on state govt pensions may be making a mistake...

We also need old people to die, and not consume their accumulated assets in their last few years trying to stay young and healthy.   As a nation we're eating our seed corn, who leaves houses and property and assets to their kids anymore?   If every generation has to start from scratch now, how do we accumulate wealth?


Yet we constantly rally against all of the things that kill people off and open up jobs: guns, heArt disease, smoking, obesity, cancer, AIDS!

Clean gay guys usually have really sweet jobs, and wer're fightin AIDS?!

;)
 
2013-10-15 07:12:42 AM  

Public Savant: Ummm.... what is the retirement age in the states?
Here it's 67.


It depends..
http://www.ssa.gov/retire2/retirechart.htm
 
2013-10-15 07:15:49 AM  

namatad: "More and more Americans are opting for an early retirement rather than hold out hope their 401Ks and pensions will be there in ten years"
So um ... isnt this a GOOD thing?
More retiring people = more job opening = lower unemployment rate = better economy = less chance that things are screwed up in 10 years.

WHY are we raising the retirement age and not lowering it???


I don't know where the 'smart' tag is, but you certainly deserve it.
 
2013-10-15 07:20:43 AM  

Animatronik: Some Coke Drinking Guy: Scary?  This is actually a good thing.  More people who retire, the more jobs that open up.  Since most retiring people are at the top of career, that also means it is good jobs becoming available, and that the younger generations can finally move up into something that doesn't pay a good wage in 1978, which their old fogey bosses, who just retired, thought was perfectly reasonable.

The benefits that were negotiated for govt employees were based on shorter life expectancies and a younger population, and on top of that were ridiculous anyway, in many instances. We need people to retire later because we can't support them for 20-30 years, and in many cases we can't replace their skillsets. People who are counting on state govt pensions may be making a mistake...


Yeah, I committed the sin of commenting before reading the article.  Didn't realize we were talking about state employees.  While a good deal of what I said holds true, with state employees, living off a pension as opposed to a 401k, there is a a question of having enough people in the workforce, to support those who have retired from it.  I get that.  On the other hand, a lot of people lost a lot of money out of their 401ks when the economy dropped, so we had an issue early on where folks were retiring later, and the youngsters were unable to move up.
 
2013-10-15 07:23:53 AM  
Too bad their jobs are going with them. It used to be when the old man retired everybody moved up the ladder.
 
2013-10-15 07:24:00 AM  

DrPainMD: namatad: "More and more Americans are opting for an early retirement rather than hold out hope their 401Ks and pensions will be there in ten years"
So um ... isnt this a GOOD thing?
More retiring people = more job opening = lower unemployment rate = better economy = less chance that things are screwed up in 10 years.

WHY are we raising the retirement age and not lowering it???

Wow. I don't even know where to start with this post. The percentage of Americans who are producing the goods and services that we all consume is dropping, and is going to continue to drop over the next 15 years, and then stay pretty low for the next 20 years. That's not a better economy. A 1% unemployment rate in a country with 60% of the population not in the job market is worse than a 10% unemployment rate in a country with only 30% of the population not in the job market.


Actually, I'd argue that the percentage isn't really to rise anytime, even after 20 years, particularly in production of goods...and it's not just an issue for the U.S.  China, for instance, is already losing manufacturing jobs to places like Vietnam...but the key point is, when country A loses 1000 jobs to country B, country B gets maybe 500 jobs...since the new factory is built with modern tech, and isn't fifty years old.

Repeat globally every few years.

We're eventually moving into a world where one guy can harvest all of Nebraska, mine an entire mountain range, or produce 10,000 cars, just by pushing a couple of buttons.  This is a good thing, since surplus food and goods are what civilization is built on, all the way back to the Neolithic.

However, all those jobs are NOT coming back, and we need to figure out what to do with all the people who used to do them.  Starting now would be a good move, but we'll probably wait until it's a real crisis..probably take another global depression, or something.

I'm guessing we go the bread and circuses route, personally.
 
2013-10-15 07:27:05 AM  
Their 401Ks won't be there after Thursday.
 
2013-10-15 07:28:16 AM  
MemeSlave:

We also need old people to die, and not consume their accumulated assets in their last few years trying to stay young and healthy.   As a nation we're eating our seed corn, who leaves houses and property and assets to their kids anymore?   If every generation has to start from scratch now, how do we accumulate wealth?

Fark YOU.  I've been working all my life and paid my fair share in taxes (actually more, since I am unmarried)  I am far from pushing daises,  but it is your stupid attitude that p*sses people off.  Who the fark are you that you wish people you don't even know to kick off?  Please tell us...
 
2013-10-15 07:28:24 AM  

DrPainMD: namatad: "More and more Americans are opting for an early retirement rather than hold out hope their 401Ks and pensions will be there in ten years"
So um ... isnt this a GOOD thing?
More retiring people = more job opening = lower unemployment rate = better economy = less chance that things are screwed up in 10 years.

WHY are we raising the retirement age and not lowering it???

Wow. I don't even know where to start with this post. The percentage of Americans who are producing the goods and services that we all consume is dropping, and is going to continue to drop over the next 15 years, and then stay pretty low for the next 20 years. That's not a better economy. A 1% unemployment rate in a country with 60% of the population not in the job market is worse than a 10% unemployment rate in a country with only 30% of the population not in the job market.


This. What the fark? LOWER the retirement age.....seriously?!?
 
2013-10-15 07:29:28 AM  

PunGent: all those jobs are NOT coming back, and we need to figure out what to do with all the people who used to do them


Tell corporations to get off their asses and start doing R&D again to find new stuff to do.
 
2013-10-15 07:29:55 AM  

PunGent: DrPainMD: namatad: "More and more Americans are opting for an early retirement rather than hold out hope their 401Ks and pensions will be there in ten years"
So um ... isnt this a GOOD thing?
More retiring people = more job opening = lower unemployment rate = better economy = less chance that things are screwed up in 10 years.

WHY are we raising the retirement age and not lowering it???

Wow. I don't even know where to start with this post. The percentage of Americans who are producing the goods and services that we all consume is dropping, and is going to continue to drop over the next 15 years, and then stay pretty low for the next 20 years. That's not a better economy. A 1% unemployment rate in a country with 60% of the population not in the job market is worse than a 10% unemployment rate in a country with only 30% of the population not in the job market.

Actually, I'd argue that the percentage isn't really to rise anytime, even after 20 years, particularly in production of goods...and it's not just an issue for the U.S.  China, for instance, is already losing manufacturing jobs to places like Vietnam...but the key point is, when country A loses 1000 jobs to country B, country B gets maybe 500 jobs...since the new factory is built with modern tech, and isn't fifty years old.

Repeat globally every few years.

We're eventually moving into a world where one guy can harvest all of Nebraska, mine an entire mountain range, or produce 10,000 cars, just by pushing a couple of buttons.  This is a good thing, since surplus food and goods are what civilization is built on, all the way back to the Neolithic.

However, all those jobs are NOT coming back, and we need to figure out what to do with all the people who used to do them.  Starting now would be a good move, but we'll probably wait until it's a real crisis..probably take another global depression, or something.

I'm guessing we go the bread and circuses route, personally.


Soylent Poors. Most cans will be spicy, what, with all the brown meat.
 
2013-10-15 07:30:13 AM  
My concern is that all of the money I have carefully saved up over the years will disappear the next time the sharks move in, and I will be told, "Oops, nobody's fault, you knew those were investments, you knew there were risks, everybody suffered, pay no attention to that guy upgrading his 200-foot yacht to a 500-foot yacht.  It's all Jimmy Carter's fault."
 
2013-10-15 07:33:24 AM  

Kibbler: My concern is that all of the money I have carefully saved up over the years will disappear the next time the sharks move in, and I will be told, "Oops, nobody's fault, you knew those were investments, you knew there were risks, everybody suffered, pay no attention to that guy upgrading his 200-foot yacht to a 500-foot yacht.  It's all Jimmy Carter's fault."


Well...they are investments, and they are risks. If you've enough to invest, you have enough to move that money out of the country. I would suggest you do so.
 
2013-10-15 07:33:28 AM  

robohobo: The wife and I plan to retire by 50, so that leaves us 15 years. I don't think she'll ever fully retire, because she's a surgeon, but she'll probably end up teaching when we're older.

But at 50, it's all about traveling and relaxation.


Cool Story, Bro.
 
2013-10-15 07:34:03 AM  
Subby, older workers locking in extremely generous lifetime benefits starting at age 55 is not "scary".  It is a jackpot sweetheart of a deal for them.  The only scary part is for young taxpayers who have to finance it.


"Shires said it is possible that the time will come when the high costs of these commitments exceed both the public's willingness and ability to pay."

Hopefully that time comes very soon.
 
2013-10-15 07:42:01 AM  

robohobo: Kibbler: My concern is that all of the money I have carefully saved up over the years will disappear the next time the sharks move in, and I will be told, "Oops, nobody's fault, you knew those were investments, you knew there were risks, everybody suffered, pay no attention to that guy upgrading his 200-foot yacht to a 500-foot yacht.  It's all Jimmy Carter's fault."

Well...they are investments, and they are risks. If you've enough to invest, you have enough to move that money out of the country. I would suggest you do so.


What would be the outcome if every middle class savings account was moved "out of the country"?

Also, what does that even mean?  And put it where?  Under a rock in Portugal?
 
2013-10-15 07:50:21 AM  

Kibbler: robohobo: Kibbler: My concern is that all of the money I have carefully saved up over the years will disappear the next time the sharks move in, and I will be told, "Oops, nobody's fault, you knew those were investments, you knew there were risks, everybody suffered, pay no attention to that guy upgrading his 200-foot yacht to a 500-foot yacht.  It's all Jimmy Carter's fault."

Well...they are investments, and they are risks. If you've enough to invest, you have enough to move that money out of the country. I would suggest you do so.

What would be the outcome if every middle class savings account was moved "out of the country"?

Also, what does that even mean?  And put it where?  Under a rock in Portugal?


"Out of the country" for average people means "stuffed in your mattress".  I recommend converting to krugerrands and burying in a secret location. Make sure to make a map that cannot be deciphered by the revenuers.
 
2013-10-15 07:52:24 AM  

Kibbler: Also, what does that even mean?  And put it where?  Under a rock in Portugal?


I have a fair amount of money invested in international T-bills and international stocks. While that's not quite "moved out of the country" (I'm gonna pay taxes on that income eventually), it keeps my investments diverse.
 
2013-10-15 07:56:00 AM  

DrPainMD: namatad:

WHY are we raising the retirement age and not lowering it???

Wow. I don't even know where to start with this post. The percentage of Americans who are producing the goods and services that we all consume is dropping, and is going to continue to drop over the next 15 years, and then stay pretty low for the next 20 years. That's not a better economy. A 1% unemployment rate in a country with 60% of the population not in the job market is worse than a 10% unemployment rate in a country with only 30% of the population not in the job market.


Herbert Stein's Law:  "If something cannot go on forever, it will stop"
 
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