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(USA Today)   Just in case you hadn't already figured it out, those "sports supplements" would probably get you banned in real sports   (usatoday.com) divider line 49
    More: Obvious, designer drugs, dietary supplements, standards organization  
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6669 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Oct 2013 at 3:45 AM (27 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



49 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-10-15 04:00:06 AM
Are you subby, Ric Romero?
 
2013-10-15 04:19:34 AM
Right. Because so many athletes are getting banned for steroid and stimulant abuse.

Newsflash: All athletes illegally use steroids and stimulants. Only a very small handful ever get penalized for it, much fewer get banned.
 
2013-10-15 04:35:51 AM
I don't see why we ban steriods and drugs.

Soldiers get drugs. Good drugs. They also make no money at all and are expected to die at a whim without protest.

Athletes play a fun game and get millions. We should FORCE them to take drugs that might kill them. A failed drug test should mean clean urine.
 
2013-10-15 04:46:54 AM
And this is why any sort of supplement,including vitamins,needs to be inspected the same way prescription meds are. Just because you can buy it over the counter doesn't mean it's safe. It just means you payed a bunch of money for some snake oil and the dude who made the snake oil is ass deep in hookers and blow.
 
2013-10-15 05:16:24 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: All athletes illegally use steroids and stimulants


In many sports stimulants would actually hurt performance more than help. As for steroids? There aren't actually that many sports where they'd really provide anything worthwhile.
 
2013-10-15 05:45:54 AM
It's literally meth with ethyl groups instead of methyl groups. Meth is N,alpha-dimethylphenethylamine
 
2013-10-15 05:50:42 AM
Well, their sales just exploded.
 
2013-10-15 05:52:35 AM

WhyteRaven74: AverageAmericanGuy: All athletes illegally use steroids and stimulants

In many sports stimulants would actually hurt performance more than help. As for steroids? There aren't actually that many sports where they'd really provide anything worthwhile.


The sports where stimulants would hurt rather than help (like say Biathlon) people would take beta-blockers instead (which are banned as well).

Steroids help all athletes because their primarily role is to help you recover from training faster, allowing you to train more frequently at a higher intensity.  This benefits nearly any high level athletic sport.
 
2013-10-15 05:56:27 AM
Oh, and to also add, supplements are a complete waste of money.  Most do absolutely nothing, and even the ones containing stimulants probably aren't much more potent than good 'ol caffine.  An exception is creatine, and even then the plain cheap crystallized creatine mono-hydrate is just as effective as the super expensive fancy stuff.
 
2013-10-15 05:57:10 AM
So, that means they work?
 
2013-10-15 05:59:31 AM

Whole Wheat: Well, their sales just exploded.


This.

I worked for a company marketing supplements last year and the crew I worked with were largely gym junkies. They used to ignore the option of taking free samples of the products we distributed and buy their own online. I asked why. A girl with absolutely no scientific knowledge explained it to me: "The stuff we sell here doesn't even have a warning on it not to take it if you're pregnant or sick. It's obviously crap. I want the stuff with the health warnings on it because then I know it's doing something."
 
2013-10-15 06:01:08 AM
 
2013-10-15 06:05:54 AM

ransack.: It's literally meth with ethyl groups instead of methyl groups. Meth is N,alpha-dimethylphenethylamine


Yeah, but that's enough to seriously change the stim properties. It's reckoned to be <a href="http://www.nsf.org/newsroom/emerging-and-potentially-harmful-ad ulteran t-depea-found-in-supplements">less potent than meth, more potent than ephedrine</a>

But yeah, stimulants in your exercise supplements are not a good thing. Also exercise supplements in general are pretty much snake oil.
 
2013-10-15 06:29:01 AM
So, golf and racing both OK?
 
2013-10-15 06:32:15 AM
Meanwhile in Hawaii, GNC's "OxyElite Pro" has been linked to dozens of cases of liver damage and at least one death.  Believers are saying it must've been a bad batch or counterfeit.  Mmhmm.

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/23677547/big-island-man-latest-li ve r-patient-linked-to-diet-supplement
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/23672895/hawaii-man
 
2013-10-15 06:54:03 AM
Thanks media, another drug that I was unaware of that I can use.

Gotta run.
 
2013-10-15 06:58:04 AM

Gothnet: ransack.: It's literally meth with ethyl groups instead of methyl groups. Meth is N,alpha-dimethylphenethylamine

Yeah, but that's enough to seriously change the stim properties. It's reckoned to be <a href="http://www.nsf.org/newsroom/emerging-and-potentially-harmful-ad ulteran t-depea-found-in-supplements">less potent than meth, more potent than ephedrine</a>

But yeah, stimulants in your exercise supplements are not a good thing. Also exercise supplements in general are pretty much snake oil.


Only problem with stims and exercise I have notice is dehydration.

Oh and you suck at golf on them.
 
2013-10-15 07:01:57 AM

Aussie_As: Whole Wheat: Well, their sales just exploded.

This.

I worked for a company marketing supplements last year and the crew I worked with were largely gym junkies. They used to ignore the option of taking free samples of the products we distributed and buy their own online. I asked why. A girl with absolutely no scientific knowledge explained it to me: "The stuff we sell here doesn't even have a warning on it not to take it if you're pregnant or sick. It's obviously crap. I want the stuff with the health warnings on it because then I know it's doing something."


She seems like a smart cookie to me. Well, not so smart as to avoid taking dangerous drugs, but at least she's thinking.
 
2013-10-15 07:07:23 AM
All that aside, most "pre-workouts" are just an ass load of caffeine, among other things.

But weightlifters are not the smartest people on the planet.

//Weightlifter.
///Probably not smart either, but at least I have the sense to avoid snake oil.
 
2013-10-15 07:47:26 AM

Aussie_As: Whole Wheat: Well, their sales just exploded.

This.

I worked for a company marketing supplements last year and the crew I worked with were largely gym junkies. They used to ignore the option of taking free samples of the products we distributed and buy their own online. I asked why. A girl with absolutely no scientific knowledge explained it to me: "The stuff we sell here doesn't even have a warning on it not to take it if you're pregnant or sick. It's obviously crap. I want the stuff with the health warnings on it because then I know it's doing something."


Same logic as never buy a fuel additive that comes in a plastic container because it can't possibly be as good as the stuff that needs a metal can.
 
2013-10-15 07:56:04 AM

Aussie_As: I worked for a company marketing supplements last year and the crew I worked with were largely gym junkies. They used to ignore the option of taking free samples of the products we distributed and buy their own online. I asked why. A girl with absolutely no scientific knowledge explained it to me: "The stuff we sell here doesn't even have a warning on it not to take it if you're pregnant or sick. It's obviously crap. I want the stuff with the health warnings on it because then I know it's doing something."


LoneWolf343: She seems like a smart cookie to me. Well, not so smart as to avoid taking dangerous drugs, but at least she's thinking.


Yeah, at least some gears are turning up there, but it's still argument from ignorance.  Just because something has a warning label doesn't mean it's effective.  It just means it's dangerous.  Big Pharma constantly puts out shiat that it turns out (once you stop rigging the trials) aren't any more effective than placebo, but has a decent chance of killing you.

On the flip side, more academically-minded tests have shown that, for example, tasting something sweet -- not even consuming, just swishing some sugar water in your mouth is OK -- can measurably improve athletic performance.  The body thinks "carbs are coming" so it turns off a lot of those "I'm tired" mechanisms intended to conserve energy that evolved to keep you alive back when we were scavengers with little idea of where the next meal was coming from.  There's nothing in the least bit "warning label" about this.
 
2013-10-15 08:39:29 AM
Having tried that Detonate supplement, I can tell you that meth wishes it was that intense.  Crazy shiat.  I found the whole "diet and exercise' thing was a far more reliable and sane way to lose weight.  Knock off the bread and soda, and you're fine.
 
2013-10-15 08:40:53 AM
I remember the days when GNC was a general nutrition center and you could buy things like fruit and nuts there. Before it was a tiny warehouse lined with canisters of protein powder the size of my torso.
 
2013-10-15 08:54:34 AM
came here for powerthirst references, leaving disappointed.
 
2013-10-15 09:30:20 AM
Can you snort it and get tweaker high?  Not really?  Well then.......
 
2013-10-15 09:41:40 AM
So I should not be giving that to my 10 year old son as a college plan?  Now what am I going to do, actually save money.
 
2013-10-15 10:01:46 AM
I take an anabolic supplement that warns of doping violations if you're a competitive athlete subject to  NADA regulations. I love Complete Nutrition
 
2013-10-15 10:02:42 AM

ransack.: It's literally meth with ethyl groups instead of methyl groups. Meth is N,alpha-dimethylphenethylamine


well the groups are kinda important and fundamentally alter the compound don't you think? Sodium ( which explodes in water ) and chlorine (  a poisonous gas ) combine to make a freaking seasoning ffs.
 
2013-10-15 10:35:42 AM

A Terrible Human: And this is why any sort of supplement,including vitamins,needs to be inspected the same way prescription meds are. Just because you can buy it over the counter doesn't mean it's safe. It just means you payed a bunch of money for some snake oil and the dude who made the snake oil is ass deep in hookers and blow.


Yep, this is also my argument against the homeopaths when they start spouting off about the Evil money grubbing drug companies.

"If they were so money grubbing, and this stuff actually worked, don't you think they'd have the monopoly on selling it?"
 
2013-10-15 10:36:55 AM

chasd00: ransack.: It's literally meth with ethyl groups instead of methyl groups. Meth is N,alpha-dimethylphenethylamine

well the groups are kinda important and fundamentally alter the compound don't you think? Sodium ( which explodes in water ) and chlorine (  a poisonous gas ) combine to make a freaking seasoning ffs.


Yes, it does matter, but the reasons why can be incredibly complex. Methamphetamine is more potent than amphetamine because the methyl group makes it easier for the compound to cross the blood-brain barrier by making it more fat-soluble. Substituting the methyl group with an ethyl group (a more complex functional group) will change the potency and efficacy of the molecules, but in ways that are not necessarily predictable.

Complex molecules like these also usually exist in multiple shapes. For example, amphetamine exists in "left-handed" (levo) and "right-handed" (dextro) forms that have vastly different potencies.
 
2013-10-15 11:13:02 AM
USA Today has a surprisingly unreadable/unusable website for such a well-known brand name. F that.
 
2013-10-15 11:15:46 AM

poot_rootbeer: I remember the days when GNC was a general nutrition center and you could buy things like fruit and nuts there. Before it was a tiny warehouse lined with canisters of protein powder the size of my torso.


and the containers are half full.
 
2013-10-15 11:16:46 AM
Jim Bouton unavailable for comment...
 
2013-10-15 11:21:03 AM
 
2013-10-15 11:27:53 AM

Foxxinnia: Seriously, though, is anything on this website true in any way?


No, but thankfully the FDA doesn't regulate supplements in any way. Just imagine what everything would look like without their regulation
 
2013-10-15 12:23:29 PM

Cybernetic: chasd00: ransack.: It's literally meth with ethyl groups instead of methyl groups. Meth is N,alpha-dimethylphenethylamine

well the groups are kinda important and fundamentally alter the compound don't you think? Sodium ( which explodes in water ) and chlorine (  a poisonous gas ) combine to make a freaking seasoning ffs.

Yes, it does matter, but the reasons why can be incredibly complex. Methamphetamine is more potent than amphetamine because the methyl group makes it easier for the compound to cross the blood-brain barrier by making it more fat-soluble. Substituting the methyl group with an ethyl group (a more complex functional group) will change the potency and efficacy of the molecules, but in ways that are not necessarily predictable.

Complex molecules like these also usually exist in multiple shapes. For example, amphetamine exists in "left-handed" (levo) and "right-handed" (dextro) forms that have vastly different potencies.


I have some meth I bought at Walgreens sitting right in front of me. It's a nasal decongestant inhaler, and has
levomethamphetamine in it. You don't even need to take a card to the pharmacy counter and show an ID, it's right on the shelf.
 
2013-10-15 12:27:31 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: Newsflash: All athletes illegally use steroids and stimulants. Only a very small handful ever get penalized for it, much fewer get banned.


Citation, please?
 
2013-10-15 12:41:44 PM
Cybernetic:  

Complex molecules like these also usually exist in multiple shapes. For example, amphetamine exists in "left-handed" (levo) and "right-handed" (dextro) forms that have vastly different potencies.

Chirality, BIATCH!
 
2013-10-15 12:42:18 PM

Foxxinnia: Are you saying NFL players can't get on the Dren?  Seriously, though, is anything on this website true in any way? Because it looks completely insane to me.


WTH am I reading?
 
2013-10-15 12:53:51 PM

Foxxinnia: Are you saying NFL players can't get on the Dren?  Seriously, though, is anything on this website true in any way? Because it looks completely insane to me.


Muscleheads totally grok all that science and shiat. Or...if not "grok," they're at least impressed by it, like so many chimps

FTFLThe first attempt to overcome the short half- life was to combine Beta-PEA with MAO inhibitors

Not sure if that shiat still contains MAO inhibitors, but I happen to know taking MAO inhibitors disqualifies you from taking a wide range of other medications. I'm not a doctor or a pharmacist, but nearly every drug ad has that disclaimer "Do not take if you are also taking MAO inhibitors..."
 
2013-10-15 12:55:56 PM

dragonchild: Aussie_As: I worked for a company marketing supplements last year and the crew I worked with were largely gym junkies. They used to ignore the option of taking free samples of the products we distributed and buy their own online. I asked why. A girl with absolutely no scientific knowledge explained it to me: "The stuff we sell here doesn't even have a warning on it not to take it if you're pregnant or sick. It's obviously crap. I want the stuff with the health warnings on it because then I know it's doing something."

LoneWolf343: She seems like a smart cookie to me. Well, not so smart as to avoid taking dangerous drugs, but at least she's thinking.

Yeah, at least some gears are turning up there, but it's still argument from ignorance.  Just because something has a warning label doesn't mean it's effective.  It just means it's dangerous.  Big Pharma constantly puts out shiat that it turns out (once you stop rigging the trials) aren't any more effective than placebo, but has a decent chance of killing you.

On the flip side, more academically-minded tests have shown that, for example, tasting something sweet -- not even consuming, just swishing some sugar water in your mouth is OK -- can measurably improve athletic performance.  The body thinks "carbs are coming" so it turns off a lot of those "I'm tired" mechanisms intended to conserve energy that evolved to keep you alive back when we were scavengers with little idea of where the next meal was coming from.  There's nothing in the least bit "warning label" about this.


Huh, well, that's very interesting.

As for the girl again, I imagine she was thinking about how the manufacturers of many so-called "supplements" know that what they're peddling doesn't do anything, so they don't regulate their doses because you can eat whole gobs of it and not OD.
 
2013-10-15 02:01:34 PM

Beta Tested: Oh, and to also add, supplements are a complete waste of money.  Most do absolutely nothing, and even the ones containing stimulants probably aren't much more potent than good 'ol caffine.  An exception is creatine, and even then the plain cheap crystallized creatine mono-hydrate is just as effective as the super expensive fancy stuff.


This
 
2013-10-15 02:15:11 PM
To the submitter it may concern:

Co-ed slow pitch softball is a real sport.

Yours,
S.L. "Spikes Up" Bleeder
 
2013-10-15 02:24:36 PM

StoPPeRmobile: Gothnet: ransack.: It's literally meth with ethyl groups instead of methyl groups. Meth is N,alpha-dimethylphenethylamine

Yeah, but that's enough to seriously change the stim properties. It's reckoned to be <a href="http://www.nsf.org/newsroom/emerging-and-potentially-harmful-ad ulteran t-depea-found-in-supplements">less potent than meth, more potent than ephedrine</a>

But yeah, stimulants in your exercise supplements are not a good thing. Also exercise supplements in general are pretty much snake oil.

Only problem with stims and exercise I have notice is dehydration.

Oh and you suck at golf on them.


They can fark up your judgement. That can be an issue in competition. If you are training, your best results will come from getting maximum blood flow to muscle tissue, and stimulant use doesn't let that happen.
 
2013-10-15 06:00:32 PM

psychopathic tendencies: Cybernetic:

Complex molecules like these also usually exist in multiple shapes. For example, amphetamine exists in "left-handed" (levo) and "right-handed" (dextro) forms that have vastly different potencies.

Chirality, BIATCH!


yup, and l-isomer amphetamines are stimulants while d-isomer amphetamines are decongestants.  So I've heard.
 
2013-10-15 06:19:39 PM

shut_it_down: psychopathic tendencies: Cybernetic:

Complex molecules like these also usually exist in multiple shapes. For example, amphetamine exists in "left-handed" (levo) and "right-handed" (dextro) forms that have vastly different potencies.

Chirality, BIATCH!

yup, and l-isomer amphetamines are stimulants while d-isomer amphetamines are decongestants.  So I've heard.


So then, if we took orange Ny-Quil and reversed the chirality, we'd get...blue meth???? ????
 
2013-10-15 09:12:05 PM

psychopathic tendencies: shut_it_down: psychopathic tendencies: Cybernetic:

Complex molecules like these also usually exist in multiple shapes. For example, amphetamine exists in "left-handed" (levo) and "right-handed" (dextro) forms that have vastly different potencies.

Chirality, BIATCH!

yup, and l-isomer amphetamines are stimulants while d-isomer amphetamines are decongestants.  So I've heard.

So then, if we took orange Ny-Quil and reversed the chirality, we'd get...blue meth???? ????


Orange and blue are opposites, if Portal has taught me anything, so yeah, maybe.

/Put it in the wash machine on spin cycle. No, the other way, dumbass!
 
2013-10-15 11:38:47 PM
If you wish to know a bit about this substance, I highly recommend this thread on bluelight:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/696585?p=11887576


Actually, if you want to know anything about any drug, I highly recommend bluelight.
 
2013-10-16 10:33:39 AM
Read a little bit about Mark Cahill the exec mentioned in the article. Years ago he did the same thing with Superdrol (sp) where he just put a lot of chemicals into a mix and it ended up killing some people.
He went to prison for it. Amusing part was another company wanted to license it and Mark told them he was going on a long trip to a foreign country to do more research on the drug. The company was shocked, shocked to later on realize that he went to prison.
 
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