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(Yahoo)   Hedge fund managers are starting to understand how awful it must be to be a poor   (finance.yahoo.com) divider line 50
    More: Unlikely, hedge fund managers, James Chanos, Elliott Management, Kynikos Associates, funds  
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2703 clicks; posted to Business » on 14 Oct 2013 at 2:04 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



50 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-10-14 01:26:25 PM  
Dig through your couch cushions to find enough money for Ramen so you can have dinner.  Empty your bank accounts and then choose between buying food, buying medicine, or paying bills.  Once you've done that, THEN you can say you know how much it sucks to be poor.  Until then, STFU and DIAF.
 
2013-10-14 01:36:28 PM  
The smart ones realize that if you strip people of too much, they remember that the rich are delicious.
 
2013-10-14 01:52:42 PM  
When a multi-billionaire says there's too much wealth inequality, you should probably listen to them.
 
2013-10-14 02:12:19 PM  
Great, now can you tell the GOP to not only stop the shutdown but also enact laws that will make you slightly less wealthy but will allow us to get rid of the debt through increased taxes and less tax loopholes created by the lobbyists of corporations you own? No? Well, it was worth a shot since you had a hint of compassion for a few minutes.
 
2013-10-14 02:13:10 PM  
The damage is done.  Off with their heads still.
 
2013-10-14 02:17:03 PM  
a poor what?
 
2013-10-14 02:17:28 PM  
RedPhoenix122: Dig through your couch cushions to find enough money for Ramen so you can have dinner

Been there, done that, never again.

// ramen for lunch, crushed up in a paper bag with half of the salt packet thrown in and shaken up.
 
2013-10-14 02:19:56 PM  

RedPhoenix122: Dig through your couch cushions to find enough money for Ramen so you can have dinner.  Empty your bank accounts and then choose between buying food, buying medicine, or paying bills.  Once you've done that, THEN you can say you know how much it sucks to be poor.  Until then, STFU and DIAF.


I bet some of these so-called "poor people" even have refrigerators.
 
2013-10-14 02:23:37 PM  
FTA  Mike Novogratz, a billionaire executive at hedge fund Fortress Investment Group, recently suggested in Fortune that government should help people find work.

Job creators say what?

"We have a whole lost generation. It's not unlike the hobos during the depression era. These men never got jobs; never got married; never have a reason to build a nest egg," Novogratz said in reference to the chronically unemployed.

I think there may be some self interest at play here.  When the cow is dead there is no milk.
 
2013-10-14 02:26:07 PM  
head. spikes. walls.
 
2013-10-14 02:36:48 PM  
Screw the poor.  Does anyone really think those smelly ass poor farktards ever once bothered to think how it must feel to actually be a hedge fund manager?  No, they are too self-absorbed in their "oh look at me, I'm a miserable poor bastard with nothing to eat and I don't care bout rich people at all."  Well I've had enough of it, and 'm going to say so.  If I don't speak for the hedge fund managers of this world, who will?  I don't want to one day have to say "first they came for the millionaire hedge fund managers, and I didn't say anything because I wasn't a millionaire hedge fund manager..."
 
2013-10-14 02:38:46 PM  
Gotcha!
 
2013-10-14 02:45:52 PM  
We make our kings and we break them too. Get enough people in dire straights and heads will roll. Its a historical certainty.
 
2013-10-14 02:51:29 PM  
I said pretend you've got no money, she just laughed and said oh you're so funny.
 
2013-10-14 02:54:33 PM  
John Arnold, a 39-year-old billionaire former hedge fund manager who now focuses on philanthropy, was so fed up with the government shutdown and its effect on poor children that he gave $10 million last week to reopen Head Start centers.

"We believe that it is especially unfair that young children from underprivileged communities and working families pay the price for the legislature's collective failures," Arnold and his wife, Laura, said in a statement.


Add "The Rich" to The List!
 
2013-10-14 02:56:29 PM  
Of the hundreds of hedge fund managers they found what 5 that were willing to even discuss the issue? Somehow I think if there were any real effort made to address income equality that materially impacted them, their new found concern would evaporate rapidly.
 
2013-10-14 03:04:04 PM  
Shiat, you gotta be rich in the first place to think like that. Ever'body know, the poor are always being farked over by the rich. Always have, always will.

/ not obscure
 
2013-10-14 03:10:33 PM  

RedPhoenix122: Dig through your couch cushions to find enough money for Ramen so you can have dinner.  Empty your bank accounts and then choose between buying food, buying medicine, or paying bills.  Once you've done that, THEN you can say you know how much it sucks to be poor.  Until then, STFU and DIAF.


Stand next to your refrigerator box covered with a tarp in the rain watching someone lucky enough to have roof over their head dig through their couch cushions, wishing you had a bank account. Empty your shopping cart looking for that half eaten sub some college kid left on a park bench and choose between eating it yourself, giving it to your malnourished child, or just throwing it away as you probably should since it has obviously gone rancid. Once you've done that, THEN you can say you know how much it sucks to be poor. Until then, STFU and DIAF.
 
2013-10-14 03:16:05 PM  
You had a box? You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt.
 
2013-10-14 03:16:37 PM  
How many are willing to sacrifice their bank accounts in order to help the needy? Sell their houses and give the money to homeless shelters? Until they themselves suffer, their concern is meaningless. May God have mercy on their souls.
 
2013-10-14 03:22:46 PM  

Farkn Yaj Yenrac: RedPhoenix122: Dig through your couch cushions to find enough money for Ramen so you can have dinner.  Empty your bank accounts and then choose between buying food, buying medicine, or paying bills.  Once you've done that, THEN you can say you know how much it sucks to be poor.  Until then, STFU and DIAF.

Stand next to your refrigerator box covered with a tarp in the rain watching someone lucky enough to have roof over their head dig through their couch cushions, wishing you had a bank account. Empty your shopping cart looking for that half eaten sub some college kid left on a park bench and choose between eating it yourself, giving it to your malnourished child, or just throwing it away as you probably should since it has obviously gone rancid. Once you've done that, THEN you can say you know how much it sucks to be poor. Until then, STFU and DIAF.


Lie near death in a ditch on the road between Lucknow and Lahore wishing you could just secure a box and a tarp to shield you from the mosquitoes and monsoon rains...while the beggar children cast lots for whatever meager trinkets you have in your possession. Once you've done that, THEN you can say how much it sucks to be poor. Until then, STFU and DIAF.
 
2013-10-14 03:26:24 PM  
You had a dad? AND HE HAD A BELT? Just rub it in, Rockefeller.
 
2013-10-14 03:27:42 PM  
Lie near death in a ditch on the road between Lucknow and Lahore wishing you could just secure a box and a tarp to shield you from the mosquitoes and monsoon rains...while the beggar children cast lots for whatever meager trinkets you have in your possession. Once you've done that, THEN you can say how much it sucks to be poor. Until then, STFU and DIAF.

Wake up every morning in a cesspool under a multistory outhouse in Mumbai with flies and mosquitoes biting you from dawn to dusk.  Eat moldy bread which was also found in the cesspool you sleep in while being forced to sell yourself to body odor fetishists for the lowest price behind the cricket grounds.  Once you've done that, then you can say how much it sucks to be poor.  Until then STFU and DIAF
 
2013-10-14 03:30:12 PM  

H31N0US: Lie near death in a ditch on the road between Lucknow and Lahore wishing you could just secure a box and a tarp to shield you from the mosquitoes and monsoon rains...while the beggar children cast lots for whatever meager trinkets you have in your possession. Once you've done that, THEN you can say how much it sucks to be poor. Until then, STFU and DIAF.


Yeah! You poors here in the states have refrigerators and obamaular phones.  Quit your biatching and accept your lot in life! Bunch of farkin moochers and takers!
 
2013-10-14 03:46:37 PM  

Big_Fat_Liar: "first they came for the Bmillionaire hedge fund managers, and I didn't say anything because I wasn't a Bmillionaire hedge fund manager..."


fixed. all of the people quoted in the article who were identified by income have made over a billion dollars. Me, I'm doing fine. But if you have a system whereby many people doing the same thing - and almost exclusively between 9-5 mind you - earn over a billion dollars in commissions and bonuses... what you have is an enormously inequitable system.
 
2013-10-14 04:06:58 PM  

H31N0US: Farkn Yaj Yenrac: RedPhoenix122: Dig through your couch cushions to find enough money for Ramen so you can have dinner.  Empty your bank accounts and then choose between buying food, buying medicine, or paying bills.  Once you've done that, THEN you can say you know how much it sucks to be poor.  Until then, STFU and DIAF.

Stand next to your refrigerator box covered with a tarp in the rain watching someone lucky enough to have roof over their head dig through their couch cushions, wishing you had a bank account. Empty your shopping cart looking for that half eaten sub some college kid left on a park bench and choose between eating it yourself, giving it to your malnourished child, or just throwing it away as you probably should since it has obviously gone rancid. Once you've done that, THEN you can say you know how much it sucks to be poor. Until then, STFU and DIAF.

Lie near death in a ditch on the road between Lucknow and Lahore wishing you could just secure a box and a tarp to shield you from the mosquitoes and monsoon rains...while the beggar children cast lots for whatever meager trinkets you have in your possession. Once you've done that, THEN you can say how much it sucks to be poor. Until then, STFU and DIAF.


I'll get an intern on that, and have him provide a detailed report. This will be interesting, just like when I had one ride the bus to work so I could know what that was like.
 
2013-10-14 04:17:19 PM  

JohnBigBootay: But if you have a system whereby many people doing the same thing - and almost exclusively between 9-5 mind you - earn over a billion dollars in commissions and bonuses... what you have is an enormously inequitable system.


If you think that money managers work 40 hours a week you have a lot of learning about Wall Street to do.
 
2013-10-14 04:24:26 PM  

Pentaxian: JohnBigBootay: But if you have a system whereby many people doing the same thing - and almost exclusively between 9-5 mind you - earn over a billion dollars in commissions and bonuses... what you have is an enormously inequitable system.

If you think that money managers work 40 hours a week you have a lot of learning about Wall Street to do.


What actual work does a 'money manager' do any how?*

*besides hookers and blow
 
2013-10-14 04:29:43 PM  

mcreadyblue: Pentaxian: JohnBigBootay: But if you have a system whereby many people doing the same thing - and almost exclusively between 9-5 mind you - earn over a billion dollars in commissions and bonuses... what you have is an enormously inequitable system.

If you think that money managers work 40 hours a week you have a lot of learning about Wall Street to do.

What actual work does a 'money manager' do any how?*

*besides hookers and blow


What actual "work" can anyone possibly do that is worth a billion dollars?  My answer: There is no such job.
 
2013-10-14 04:52:40 PM  

FarkedOver: What actual "work" can anyone possibly do that is worth a billion dollars? My answer: There is no such job.


Now you did it. There will a dozen FARK Independents (and their alts) in here telling us that the number is irrelevant to 'normal' jobs. It's all a matter of value to the company and how much you produce, and if they didn't pay that much they wouldn't attract the best and the brightest. Which of course is pure BS.
 
2013-10-14 05:09:14 PM  

Dinki: You had a box? You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt.


Luxury...
 
2013-10-14 05:50:43 PM  
Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is...
img196.imageshack.us
 
2013-10-14 06:21:50 PM  

FarkedOver: mcreadyblue: Pentaxian: JohnBigBootay: But if you have a system whereby many people doing the same thing - and almost exclusively between 9-5 mind you - earn over a billion dollars in commissions and bonuses... what you have is an enormously inequitable system.

If you think that money managers work 40 hours a week you have a lot of learning about Wall Street to do.

What actual work does a 'money manager' do any how?*

*besides hookers and blow

What actual "work" can anyone possibly do that is worth a billion dollars?  My answer: There is no such job.


These money managers provide returns for their investors. You may recognize them as your pensions, endowments, retirement funds, foreign governments.

You pool together tens of billions assets under management. How much do you think you should get paid on the dollar to manage such large funds?

I am not defending them but unfortunately we built this system so they can prosper.

If we stop subsidizing private education with tax exempt status, prevent investors that serve our retired or retiring, and simplify complex derivatives then that is a start. I see farmers or organizations heavily dependent upon natural resources or commodities as a need to hedge but don't see anyone else. Lastly let banks be banks.
 
2013-10-14 06:43:33 PM  
There's just a growing sense that post-crisis, post-'08, that the game isn't fair," Jim Chanos, founder of $5 billion hedge fund firm Kynikos Associates, added at the same event. "We went out of our way to protect the financial economy and gave short shrift to other parts."

(Youdontsay.jpg)
 
2013-10-14 06:56:08 PM  

Pentaxian: If you think that money managers work 40 hours a week you have a lot of learning about Wall Street to do.


If you think that something could be worth a billion dollars because they work a lot of hours, well, then I could show you plenty of people who work far more hours who don't make a meaningful percentage of a billion dollars. But the main thing is this: An index fund will outperform all of these schmucks, essentially for free, for any ten year period in recorded history. Show me one schmuck on wall street who will guarantee me he can beat the market indices for a decade and put it in writing. Hell, I'll make the list for you...

1. This person does not exist
2. Warren Buffett is proving this for all of us right now at longbets.org where his s&p 500 index is beating the super hedgefund guys more than halfway into a ten year bet.
 
2013-10-14 06:59:35 PM  

JudgeReinhold: You pool together tens of billions assets under management. How much do you think you should get paid on the dollar to manage such large funds?


Nothing. They'd do better in indexes anyway.
 
2013-10-14 07:02:13 PM  

JudgeReinhold: You pool together tens of billions assets under management. How much do you think you should get paid on the dollar to manage such large funds?


I forgot.... how much would I pay them 'on the dollar'? Nothing. Really. No one deserves points off a pool of retirement investments of millions of people. Now it can be a complex job that requires some expertise so I'd certainly pay them handsomely. Let's see, if they are super awesome how about a half a million dollars? That's a pretty awesome wage is it not?
 
2013-10-14 07:57:34 PM  

jayhawk88: John Arnold, a 39-year-old billionaire former hedge fund manager who now focuses on philanthropy, was so fed up with the government shutdown and its effect on poor children that he gave $10 million last week to reopen Head Start centers.


Ah yes. An ENRON EXECUTIVE stole HOW much from investors, and gives back only ten million?

I guess that makes it all cool now, right?
 
2013-10-14 08:05:48 PM  
Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is.
 
2013-10-14 08:09:55 PM  

Dinki: FarkedOver: What actual "work" can anyone possibly do that is worth a billion dollars? My answer: There is no such job.

Now you did it. There will a dozen FARK Independents (and their alts) in here telling us that the number is irrelevant to 'normal' jobs. It's all a matter of value to the company and how much you produce, and if they didn't pay that much they wouldn't attract the best and the brightest. Which of course is pure BS.


No shiat. Half a million will gather you a fine pool of people of applicants that are just as good as the old boys network doing it for a billion.
 
2013-10-14 08:39:57 PM  
most hedge funds fail to beat the S&P 500, especially after fees. in the fund-of-fund segment, its even worse.

because they are only open to wealthy people, investors are attracted to the exclusivity.

see also: venture capital
 
2013-10-14 09:05:07 PM  

TV's Vinnie: jayhawk88: John Arnold, a 39-year-old billionaire former hedge fund manager who now focuses on philanthropy, was so fed up with the government shutdown and its effect on poor children that he gave $10 million last week to reopen Head Start centers.

Ah yes. An ENRON EXECUTIVE stole HOW much from investors, and gives back only ten million?

I guess that makes it all cool now, right?


Sin, rapine, extortionate rents, and guilt built some of the greatest monuments in the world.
i.telegraph.co.uk
The shame of the wealthy and their need for atonement trickles down on us all.
 
2013-10-14 09:48:32 PM  
I Don't think money is bad. He'll, I even have some. I participate in the stock market, save for retirement, all that shiat. I don't think rich people are bad.( And for the sake of this argument we can even leave out pro athletes and musicians and tech innovator superstars.) But I think the very idea that someone could possible "earn" a billion dollars for something they did in a year at their "job" is absurd. We can talk a million if you want but a billion? Horseshiat. A billion just means he is royalty and through whatever circumstances he found himself sitting on the throne.
 
2013-10-14 10:17:30 PM  

Kuta: I said pretend you've got no money, she just laughed and said oh you're so funny.


You know, I thought the Bill Shatner cover of that song was surprisingly good.
 
2013-10-14 11:53:45 PM  
orf wif der heds
 
2013-10-15 01:20:34 AM  

Dinki: Of the hundreds of hedge fund managers they found what 5 that were willing to even discuss the issue? Somehow I think if there were any real effort made to address income equality that materially impacted them, their new found concern would evaporate rapidly.


The guy I know who's a math whiz for a hedge fund would discuss it. He'd sound like he agreed with you, even. Then, he'd say the solution to rising inequality is to cut taxes, cut services, and let the chips fall where they may.

After that, he'd probably smoke his opium pipe until he passed out, get up, hit the resin for a while, rail an Adderall, and go to work for 14 hours.

Disclaimer: It's difficult to imagine that guy was made twice, so he may not be indicative of the culture as a whole.
 
2013-10-15 09:45:53 AM  

JudgeReinhold: I am not defending them but unfortunately we built this system so they can prosper.


Then this system should be discarded for a more egalitarian system.
 
2013-10-15 12:45:51 PM  
What we need is a good ol' fashioned riot. 99% vs 1%. Lets see who wins. Loser buys the beers afterwards.
 
2013-10-15 05:13:06 PM  

JohnBigBootay: I Don't think money is bad. He'll, I even have some. I participate in the stock market, save for retirement, all that shiat. I don't think rich people are bad.( And for the sake of this argument we can even leave out pro athletes and musicians and tech innovator superstars.) But I think the very idea that someone could possible "earn" a billion dollars for something they did in a year at their "job" is absurd. We can talk a million if you want but a billion? Horseshiat. A billion just means he is royalty and through whatever circumstances he found himself sitting on the throne.


Nope. If a guy can pick investment winners, people will invest with him and pay his fees. If he then picks more winners, he can earn big fees and incent more people to invest with him. Picking more winners means more income, etc etc. how is that income not "earned"?
 
2013-10-15 06:54:44 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: JohnBigBootay: I Don't think money is bad. He'll, I even have some. I participate in the stock market, save for retirement, all that shiat. I don't think rich people are bad.( And for the sake of this argument we can even leave out pro athletes and musicians and tech innovator superstars.) But I think the very idea that someone could possible "earn" a billion dollars for something they did in a year at their "job" is absurd. We can talk a million if you want but a billion? Horseshiat. A billion just means he is royalty and through whatever circumstances he found himself sitting on the throne.

Nope. If a guy can pick investment winners, people will invest with him and pay his fees. If he then picks more winners, he can earn big fees and incent more people to invest with him. Picking more winners means more income, etc etc. how is that income not "earned"?


Because in some folks' minds, this is more akin to gambling than it is to working in a more traditional sense.

If a guy studies the Racing form, knows his Beyer numbers, and takes the time to learn all the latest stable gossip and then hits a big exacta or a multi-race parlay, has he "earned" that money?  He spent time and effort gathering the information, and he risked his betting money, but he's not earning off the race race in the same way as a stable hand getting paid for the day's activities taking care of the horse getting ready, and he's also not earning off the race the way the owner of the horse does.

I think another thing that sits funny with the general public is that the fees that the fund manager is getting as income doesn't generally show up on a W-2, which is how the vast vast majority of this country gets their money.  If it's pay for a job, then tax it like one--like how an auto salesman gets paid on comission according to the value of the cars he sells, but he's still ponying up his W-2 share to Uncle Sam like everybody else.
 
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