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(LA Times)   "The Tea Party now has direct control over their representatives. Fear will keep the Republicans in line. Fear of this think tank"   (latimes.com) divider line 163
    More: Scary, Michigan Republicans, Senator Ted Cruz, GOP, Jim DeMint, humans, political parties in the United States, Justin Amash, Heritage Action for America  
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3603 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Oct 2013 at 11:58 AM (45 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



163 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-10-14 10:28:55 AM
userserve-ak.last.fm 
"Direct intervention is necessary."
 
2013-10-14 10:31:08 AM
For the record, I'm glad that walking embarrassment is no longer representing me.  However, it is depressingly unsurprising that it is a Dixie doofus seeking to pull the country back to the simpler times of yore that never existed.
 
2013-10-14 10:33:01 AM
I believe "think tank" is a bit gracious.  But snark aside, it's not a factual definition of Heritage.

Demint's definitely a man to watch, though.  It will be interesting to see how he chooses to balance his ideological backers (The Family, teabaggers, et al) and his financial backers.  This fabricated crisis has made many of the latter reconsider this dangerous path.
 
2013-10-14 10:34:52 AM
I've never understood how representatives being in line with their constituency is a bad thing.

That is kind of what representative means.
 
2013-10-14 10:37:23 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I've never understood how representatives being in line with their constituency is a bad thing.

That is kind of what representative means.


It's not the only item in their job responsibilities.
 
2013-10-14 10:38:04 AM
Jim DeMint: Jesse Helms without the charm
 
2013-10-14 10:39:31 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I've never understood how representatives being in line with their constituency is a bad thing.

That is kind of what representative means.


No, a representative is supposed to be a buffer between the mob and the levers of power.  A representative represents his constituents views, but he also is supposed to temper their worst impulses.
 
2013-10-14 10:42:01 AM
Hehe...thinking more about my post.  Jim's got to navigate between K Street and C Street.

I hope the cliffs smash him.
 
2013-10-14 10:43:02 AM

Mentat: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I've never understood how representatives being in line with their constituency is a bad thing.

That is kind of what representative means.

No, a representative is supposed to be a buffer between the mob and the levers of power.  A representative represents his constituents views, but he also is supposed to temper their worst impulses.


And he's supposed to look out for his/her constituents best interests. Convo mic collapse is in no one's best interest.
 
2013-10-14 10:43:10 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-10-14 10:47:46 AM

Dinobot: [userserve-ak.last.fm image 400x400] 
"Direct intervention is necessary."


So in this scenario, Obama is Shepard?

I like that.
 
2013-10-14 10:47:47 AM

Mentat: No, a representative is supposed to be a buffer between the mob and the levers of power. A representative represents his constituents views, but he also is supposed to temper their worst impulses.


Maybe once upon a time. Before the internet, phones and email you just elected the representative and sent him to Washington and hoped for the best. A few years later you gave him a performance review and if enough people approved he got to back. That's when it took weeks if not a month to get to Washington. Now-a-days the representative doesn't have to guess about what the people want.
 
2013-10-14 10:47:47 AM
I find your lack of votes disturbing.
 
2013-10-14 10:53:21 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I've never understood how representatives being in line with their constituency is a bad thing.

That is kind of what representative means.


Except the represent all of their constituents. Not 10% of them
 
2013-10-14 10:55:36 AM

Peter von Nostrand: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I've never understood how representatives being in line with their constituency is a bad thing.

That is kind of what representative means.

Except the represent all of their constituents. Not 10% of them


That would imply that only 10% elected him/her.
 
2013-10-14 10:59:13 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Now-a-days the representative doesn't have to guess about what the people want.


Doesn't mean that the Constituents know what they need.
 
2013-10-14 11:07:26 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I've never understood how representatives being in line with their constituency is a bad thing.

That is kind of what representative means.


Being in line with idiots is being an idiot.  Being an idiot is generally considered a bad thing.
 
2013-10-14 11:11:14 AM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Now-a-days the representative doesn't have to guess about what the people want.

Doesn't mean that the Constituents know what they need.


LOL.
 
2013-10-14 11:11:18 AM

Peter von Nostrand: Except the represent all of their constituents. Not 10% of them


I think the number is a little higher then 10% or the representatives would just ignore them.

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Doesn't mean that the Constituents know what they need.


yes the people are too stupid to rule themselves. Lets go with that. They are smart enough to be trusted with voting for the leaders of our government, but not smart enough to know about the issues. That's a very fine line to walk.
 
2013-10-14 11:12:52 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I've never understood how representatives being in line with their constituency is a bad thing.
That is kind of what representative means.


The problem is that about half their constituents have below-average intelligence.

Mentat: No, a representative is supposed to be a buffer between the mob and the levers of power. A representative represents his constituents views, but he also is supposed to temper their worst impulses.


Bingo. He is supposed to represent an advocate for the best interests of their district -- which is not necessarily the same thing as what most of the people in that district want.

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Doesn't mean that the Constituents know what they need.


See "not necessarily the same" and "about half".
 
2013-10-14 11:14:19 AM

abb3w: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I've never understood how representatives being in line with their constituency is a bad thing.
That is kind of what representative means.

The problem is that about half their constituents have below-average intelligence.

Mentat: No, a representative is supposed to be a buffer between the mob and the levers of power. A representative represents his constituents views, but he also is supposed to temper their worst impulses.

Bingo. He is supposed to represent an advocate for the best interests of their district -- which is not necessarily the same thing as what most of the people in that district want.

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Doesn't mean that the Constituents know what they need.

See "not necessarily the same" and "about half".


What sort of alternate universe do you exist in?
 
2013-10-14 11:15:16 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Peter von Nostrand: Except the represent all of their constituents. Not 10% of them

I think the number is a little higher then 10% or the representatives would just ignore them.


I think the loudest ones get the attention. Whether it is 1% or 90%.

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Doesn't mean that the Constituents know what they need.

yes the people are too stupid to rule themselves. Lets go with that. They are smart enough to be trusted with voting for the leaders of our government, but not smart enough to know about the issues. That's a very fine line to walk.


What we need in the desert is a lot different than what people in the Northeast need. In order to get what we want/need, our representative has to work with others. Compromise has to happen. It gets complicated quickly.
 
2013-10-14 11:20:19 AM

TheDumbBlonde: Peter von Nostrand: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I've never understood how representatives being in line with their constituency is a bad thing.

That is kind of what representative means.

Except the represent all of their constituents. Not 10% of them

That would imply that only 10% elected him/her.


Only if you're dumb... Oh wait, disregard
 
2013-10-14 11:21:30 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Peter von Nostrand: Except the represent all of their constituents. Not 10% of them

I think the number is a little higher then 10% or the representatives would just ignore them.

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Doesn't mean that the Constituents know what they need.

yes the people are too stupid to rule themselves. Lets go with that. They are smart enough to be trusted with voting for the leaders of our government, but not smart enough to know about the issues. That's a very fine line to walk.


15% tops
 
2013-10-14 11:21:48 AM
Don't be too proud of this Tea Party terror you've constructed. The ability to attempt to destroy Obamacare is insignificant next to the power of people who have brain stems.

Really, serious question, what is the "given" reason for the obsession with stopping Obamacare? And don't tell me that it'll cost too much. We waste more money on defense spending on shiat that we'll never even use and foreign aid that doesn't benefit us in the least than we ever will on health care for our own citizens.
 
2013-10-14 11:22:10 AM

abb3w: The problem is that about half their constituents have below-average intelligence.


good one.


abb3w: ingo. He is supposed to represent an advocate for the best interests of their district -- which is not necessarily the same thing as what most of the people in that district want.


I think it's been an interesting shift in the information age. When we got this party started we would vote for someone who had the same values as us and hopefully vote in an honest person that would hold on to the values we had. We in this case being where ever the representative is from. He would go to Washington and have to figure out what his people would want and what they need. And then try to sell his fellow representatives.
Now a days it has completely shifted. Now the representative hears or comes up with a plan and has to travel back to his district and try to sell the people that sent him to Washington. If we don't like it he (or she) gets instant feedback. So the representative doesn't have to worry about guess what we do or do not want.

I just find that interesting.
 
2013-10-14 11:24:06 AM
When I was younger it used to drive me crazy to watch the Democrats get soundly beaten by running on their most liberal ideas.

Meanwhile, the Republicans were the pragmatic ones, realizing that your platform doesn't matter at all if you can't manage to get yourself elected.

Somehow, the Democrats seemed to have learned this lesson while Republicans have gone full retard and then some.
 
2013-10-14 11:25:01 AM
The more you tighten your grip, the more voters will slip through your fingers.

/Really? No one got to this before now?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-10-14 11:27:21 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I've never understood how representatives being in line with their constituency is a bad thing.

That is kind of what representative means.


Mainly it's a problem when their constituents are bat shiat crazy.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-10-14 11:28:21 AM
The Republican party is at war with itself.

Maybe we should allow open cary in the house?
 
2013-10-14 11:29:47 AM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: When I was younger it used to drive me crazy to watch the Democrats get soundly beaten by running on their most liberal ideas.

Meanwhile, the Republicans were the pragmatic ones, realizing that your platform doesn't matter at all if you can't manage to get yourself elected.

Somehow, the Democrats seemed to have learned this lesson while Republicans have gone full retard and then some.


I think we can blame the Religious Right TM for throwing the Republicans off track. You see you can't control a woman uterus if you believe in small government. You need a big government with lots and lots of power if you want to legislate morality! And in order to get that big overreaching government you need to tax the bejebus out of people to fund it.

So now you have both parties wanting to grow government and tax us. A lose-lose if you will.
 
2013-10-14 11:33:55 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: So now you have both parties wanting to grow government and tax us. A lose-lose if you will


I don't see any particular problem with a large government and taxation, so it's not a lose-lose. The key element is  how government is applied. The idea that the size of the government and the freedom of the populace are opposing properties is a myth. We form societies because we are social animals. We form governments because societies are complex and difficult to manage.
 
2013-10-14 11:36:34 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I've never understood how representatives being in line with their constituency is a bad thing.


If we had actual proportionate representation in this country, I would agree with you.
 
2013-10-14 11:40:39 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I've never understood how representatives being in line with their constituency is a bad thing.

That is kind of what representative means.


Politics is a balance between representing your constituents interest, and leading.  The latter is convincing them that a course of action is in their best interest.  It's a politicians job to have all of the facts on an issue, which may be a level of understanding that the layperson doesn't have.  It's a balancing act.

Left to their own devices, people will always support more services, while not supporting the means to pay for them (See: California).  Were they lying when they said they wanted more stuff, or were they lying when they said they wanted lower taxes?  Or maybe, just maybe, they didn't understand that more stuff meant that they would have to pay more?

It's up to the politician to parse this and act accordingly.  Its not nearly as clear as you're making it out to be.
 
2013-10-14 11:44:41 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I think we can blame the Religious Right TM for throwing the Republicans off track.


i.imgur.com

There is something to that, but this is really just a smaller facet of the larger problem of rising debt (vs. growth) with the Cold War and the growing class inequality since the Vietnam War. The proximate issue may be the RR, but larger systemic issues are at the core.
 
2013-10-14 11:45:12 AM

TheDumbBlonde: What sort of alternate universe do you exist in?


One where math works, and where the Federalist Papers expressed a desire for the Representatives to be open to merit of all origins.
 
2013-10-14 11:47:34 AM
They're poised to screw their biggest benefactors out of billions in the coming recession/depression. That should do the party in for good.
 
2013-10-14 11:55:04 AM
FTFA: And DeMint is helping to build an impressive and apparently permanent infrastructure of fundraising organizations with the avowed goal of displacing the GOP's traditional business backers. The goal, as Needham put it, is "to take on cronyism and the way K Street [lobbyists] run this town."  But they should expect some push-back. Some of those K Street Republican lobbyists told me last week they were already organizing to support endangered incumbents, including McConnell, and plan to do some "primarying" of their own, funding moderate GOP challengers to several tea party members of the House, including two Michigan Republicans, Justin Amash and Kerry Bentivolio.

i.imgur.com

The more this goes on, the more I'm reminded of 9/11. The reactionary Qaedans gripe with the U.S. was mostly peripheral to the larger issue of wanting to be taken seriously as an alternative to the neocolonial cronyism of the ruling class in Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and other similar countries. They pulled off that attack to bolster their populist street cred there. The reactionary TeaBaggers want to pull off this default to show the right side of the U.S. political spectrum that they are a credible and powerful alternative to the plutocratic cronyism of the big business lobby. They are pulling off this attack to show their populist street cred here.
 
2013-10-14 11:59:55 AM

unyon: Politics is a balance between representing your constituents interest, and leading. The latter is convincing them that a course of action is in their best interest. It's a politicians job to have all of the facts on an issue, which may be a level of understanding that the layperson doesn't have. It's a balancing act.


I think that is darn near what I said. But due to tech increases in both travel and communications the politicians job of sell has moved to having to sell his people more than trying to sell his fellow members of Congress.

t3knomanser: I don't see any particular problem with a large government and taxation, so it's not a lose-lose.


And we are just going to have to agree to disagree. It's a classic battle in philosophy. And at one point in this county's history we had a party on either end of that debate. Now both parties are on the same side of the debate but for different reasons.

Now don't go hyperbole on me! Just because I feel that we currently have too much government overreach does not mean I want zero government.

Somacandra: There is something to that, but this is really just a smaller facet of the larger problem of rising debt (vs. growth) with the Cold War and the growing class inequality since the Vietnam War. The proximate issue may be the RR, but larger systemic issues are at the core.


I'm not foolish enough to believe that there is just one cause. But if Republicans had hold true, the other stuff could have been weathered.
 
2013-10-14 12:01:22 PM
FTA: The Republican Party is at war with itself. It's divided over how best to shrink the federal budget

You know what will not shrink the federal budget?  Defaulting!  Defaulting on our debts will increase the interest rate we pay on the money we borrowed.
 
2013-10-14 12:01:45 PM

TheDumbBlonde: Peter von Nostrand: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I've never understood how representatives being in line with their constituency is a bad thing.

That is kind of what representative means.

Except the represent all of their constituents. Not 10% of them

That would imply that only 10% elected him/her.


No, that would imply that the worst 10% are the biggest loudmouths.
 
2013-10-14 12:02:30 PM

Mugato: Don't be too proud of this Tea Party terror you've constructed. The ability to attempt to destroy Obamacare is insignificant next to the power of people who have brain stems.

Really, serious question, what is the "given" reason for the obsession with stopping Obamacare? And don't tell me that it'll cost too much. We waste more money on defense spending on shiat that we'll never even use and foreign aid that doesn't benefit us in the least than we ever will on health care for our own citizens.


The one I've seen most often?
It is forcing people to buy something they "can't afford and don't want" - and it is a tax -
Tea People don't want taxes - esp for things they (see above) - rinse, repeat
 
2013-10-14 12:02:40 PM
FTA The government shutdown, he insisted, was a step on "a path to electoral success."

Yes, success for Democrats though.
 
2013-10-14 12:03:11 PM
Cabal of the ultra-rich who control the Tea Party now has direct control over their representatives. Fear will keep the Republicans in line. Fear of this think tank cabal.

FTFY
 
2013-10-14 12:04:21 PM

Diogenes: Hehe...thinking more about my post.  Jim's got to navigate between K Street and C Street.

I hope the cliffs smash him.


Or a multiheaded beast seizes him with several mouths and rends him asunder.
 
2013-10-14 12:04:35 PM
I have a bad feeling about this...
 
2013-10-14 12:06:20 PM

Nabb1: The more you tighten your grip, the more voters will slip through your fingers.

/Really? No one got to this before now?


These guys get it

www.recordsale.de
 
2013-10-14 12:08:15 PM
Somacandra:

The more this goes on, the more I'm reminded of 9/11. The reactionary Qaedans gripe with the U.S. was mostly peripheral to the larger issue of wanting to be taken seriously as an alternative to the neocolonial cronyism of the ruling class in Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and other similar countries. They pulled off that attack to bolster their populist street cred there. The reactionary TeaBaggers want to pull off this default to show the right side of the U.S. political spectrum that they are a credible and powerful alternative to the plutocratic cronyism of the big business lobby. They are pulling off this attack to show their populist street cred here.

Except that they are not an alternative to the plutocratic cronyism of the big business lobby, they are the puppets of that lobby. Most of them, anyway.

There are a few who simply want very little federal government, even to the point of not having Social Security and such. Those people are simply delusional, they want everything down to the level of 'do it yourself'. No money for local, state, or federal government. So some kind of anarchy I suppose where roads are built by what exactly? These people simply didn't think their sh*t through.

The vast, vast majority of them are just fanatics or hypocrites with no idea about what it takes to keep the country functioning, to feed and clothe the elderly and the underprivileged, to keep roads functioning, to keep food safe, to monitor and prevent diseases, and so on. Many of them are just plain old racists and authoritarians who want to see the world burn without understanding what that actually means.
 
2013-10-14 12:08:35 PM
farm3.staticflickr.com

/hot
 
2013-10-14 12:09:15 PM

parasol: The one I've seen most often?
It is forcing people to buy something they "can't afford and don't want" - and it is a tax -
Tea People don't want taxes - esp for things they (see above) - rinse, repeat


Right because there are people in their right mind who think they are immortal and will never need health insurance and also don't care about their precious tax dollars going to people who get free health care through the ER and other means.

Or it could be just "fark you, I got mine",
 
2013-10-14 12:10:49 PM

Muta: You know what will not shrink the federal budget? Defaulting! Defaulting on our debts will increase the interest rate we pay on the money we borrowed.


I probably shouldn't be, but I've been shocked, even in these threads, at how few people understand that raising the debt ceiling right now is about paying for things Congress already approved, not giving them room to approve new spending.

The predominant belief seems to be that Congress can't approve new spending unless there's room in the Treasury's spending authority even though the whole reason the current limit is being hit is because previous Congresses did exactly the opposite by approving spending they couldn't pay for.

It's no wonder go-tards like Cruz manage to get elected. People have absolute no idea what's going on, no interest in learning, but they're very, very angry about it anyway.
 
2013-10-14 12:11:17 PM

bdub77: The vast, vast majority of them are just fanatics or hypocrites with no idea about what it takes to keep the country functioning, to feed and clothe the elderly and the underprivileged, to keep roads functioning, to keep food safe, to monitor and prevent diseases, and so on. Many of them are just plain old racists and authoritarians who want to see the world burn without understanding what that actually means.


Sadly, this.
 
2013-10-14 12:12:40 PM

jaytkay: TheDumbBlonde: Peter von Nostrand: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I've never understood how representatives being in line with their constituency is a bad thing.

That is kind of what representative means.

Except the represent all of their constituents. Not 10% of them

That would imply that only 10% elected him/her.

No, that would imply that the worst 10% are the biggest loudmouths.


Or the biggest campaign contributors.
 
2013-10-14 12:12:46 PM

Mugato: Don't be too proud of this Tea Party terror you've constructed. The ability to attempt to destroy Obamacare is insignificant next to the power of people who have brain stems.

Really, serious question, what is the "given" reason for the obsession with stopping Obamacare? And don't tell me that it'll cost too much. We waste more money on defense spending on shiat that we'll never even use and foreign aid that doesn't benefit us in the least than we ever will on health care for our own citizens.


But freeing the sh*t out of countries is awesome! Families getting health care is bullsh*t. A person is only as valuable as their paycheck. And millions of people are worthless.
 
2013-10-14 12:12:52 PM
Contracting economy, meh.

But the tea tards are represented by about 78 congress creatures from 30 states.
That's close 20 percent of the USAians.

I say we expedite their separation and exclusion from the system they find so objectionable.
Perhaps by any means necessary.
 
2013-10-14 12:13:47 PM
I think this is why the Senate Republicans are less intransigent than their House colleagues.  They knew DeMint, and resent him deeply, even though they have similar jobs lined up for when they retire.

DeMint is also drunk on power at the moment.
 
2013-10-14 12:14:06 PM

Mugato: parasol: The one I've seen most often?
It is forcing people to buy something they "can't afford and don't want" - and it is a tax -
Tea People don't want taxes - esp for things they (see above) - rinse, repeat

Right because there are people in their right mind who think they are immortal and will never need health insurance and also don't care about their precious tax dollars going to people who get free health care through the ER and other means.

Or it could be just "fark you, I got mine",


I never thought they were in their right mind because the other objection is "invading my privacy" - as if, somehow, a visit to the ER and filing your taxes means your private information is sealed in a titanium vault with a red "top secret" seal
I once asked my mother's doctor's (staff person) what would happen to her records after she had passed. She shrugged and said "oh, after a while, we just toss our files - inactive ones, like that"
and it not like the IRS has ever been caught throwing out returns or anything.

No, they aren't quite "right"
 
2013-10-14 12:16:44 PM
A lot of my relatives who believe the Tea Party is not conservative enough have another supreme belief.  If you want something to happen like say you want to not die of the cancer that is eating you.  You just need to pray, kinda like the belief that to fix everything you just need to be more conservative.  Well if praying didnt fix the cancer, then you were not praying hard enough.

Please continue, yes, you need to move to the right.
 
2013-10-14 12:21:12 PM
c428065.r65.cf2.rackcdn.com

I, for one, welcome our soggy new overlords.
 
2013-10-14 12:21:55 PM
The silver lining in all this is the money these guys would put behind  primary challengers will be worthless once they cause us to default...so yeah, jokes on them amirite?
 
2013-10-14 12:22:03 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: I say we expedite their separation and exclusion from the system they find so objectionable.
Perhaps by any means necessary.


It would be nice as the debt ceiling approaches or just after it is met if Obama first stopped sending Social Security checks to states and districts first.  It would give the Teabagging congressman a chance to talk to the folks they represent about the role of government in their lives.
 
2013-10-14 12:23:15 PM

lilbjorn: Cabal of the ultra-rich who control the Tea Party now has direct control over their representatives. Fear will keep the Republicans in line. Fear of this think tank cabal.

FTFY


Courting right-wing crazies as your base who want a default vs trying to satisfy wealthy plutocrats who want to raise it again so they don't lose their shirts should be fun.
 
2013-10-14 12:23:32 PM

deeproy: [farm3.staticflickr.com image 500x376]

/hot




i11.photobucket.com
 
2013-10-14 12:23:45 PM

orclover: Well if praying didnt fix the cancer, then you were not praying hard enough.


That sort of belief indicates a belief in a God who is a real dick. I don't see how anyone could argue that point.
 
2013-10-14 12:29:30 PM

Mugato: orclover: Well if praying didnt fix the cancer, then you were not praying hard enough.

That sort of belief indicates a belief in a God who is a real dick. I don't see how anyone could argue that point.


I think that God's got a sick sense of humor.
 
2013-10-14 12:29:53 PM

SilentStrider: Dinobot: [userserve-ak.last.fm image 400x400] 
"Direct intervention is necessary."

So in this scenario, Obama is Shepard?

I like that.


I am Cmdr Shepard and this is my favorite govt shutdown in the Citadel.
 
2013-10-14 12:35:30 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Peter von Nostrand: Except the represent all of their constituents. Not 10% of them

I think the number is a little higher then 10% or the representatives would just ignore them.


There was a study recently that showed that conservative politicians overestimated how conservative their constituency actually was.  That 10% is very, very loud.
 
2013-10-14 12:35:39 PM
What's so strange about this is that the only threat to America in this situation is the Tea Party. There was no external event or big story that resulted in this political reaction. There is no force causing this crisis except Tea Party's desire for it.
 
2013-10-14 12:35:42 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I've never understood how representatives being in line with their constituency is a bad thing.

That is kind of what representative means.


It wouldn't be a bad thing in theory, if they weren't able to hijack the Democracy through the filibuster in the Seante and the Hastert Rule in the House which prevented everyone else being being represented.
 
2013-10-14 12:36:55 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Eddie Adams from Torrance: When I was younger it used to drive me crazy to watch the Democrats get soundly beaten by running on their most liberal ideas.

Meanwhile, the Republicans were the pragmatic ones, realizing that your platform doesn't matter at all if you can't manage to get yourself elected.

Somehow, the Democrats seemed to have learned this lesson while Republicans have gone full retard and then some.

I think we can blame the Religious Right TM for throwing the Republicans off track. You see you can't control a woman uterus if you believe in small government. You need a big government with lots and lots of power if you want to legislate morality! And in order to get that big overreaching government you need to tax the bejebus out of people to fund it.

So now you have both parties wanting to grow government and tax us. A lose-lose if you will.


I've been here long enough.  Up to this point, you've presented yourself to be smarter than this.
 
2013-10-14 12:39:20 PM

Fart_Machine: Mugato: orclover: Well if praying didnt fix the cancer, then you were not praying hard enough.

That sort of belief indicates a belief in a God who is a real dick. I don't see how anyone could argue that point.

I think that God's got a sick sense of humor.


That's a blasphemous rumor.
 
2013-10-14 12:39:28 PM
Remember when America's enemies used to dwell and conspire OUTSIDE of the USA?
 
2013-10-14 12:39:54 PM
Did Ric Romero write this piece? It's been this way for quite some time
 
2013-10-14 12:40:45 PM

Fart_Machine: Mugato: orclover: Well if praying didnt fix the cancer, then you were not praying hard enough.

That sort of belief indicates a belief in a God who is a real dick. I don't see how anyone could argue that point.

I think that God's got a sick sense of humor.



A god that created the universe and everything in it also created Harlequin-type ichthyosis and Anencephaly, so yeah.
 
2013-10-14 12:43:08 PM

odinsposse: What's so strange about this is that the only threat to America in this situation is the Tea Party. There was no external event or big story that resulted in this political reaction. There is no force causing this crisis except Tea Party's desire for it.


Well, if that RINO Romney hadn't accidentally given a sh*t about the health of poor people for a minute we wouldn't be in this mess.
 
2013-10-14 12:43:17 PM

timujin: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Peter von Nostrand: Except the represent all of their constituents. Not 10% of them

I think the number is a little higher then 10% or the representatives would just ignore them.

There was a study recently that showed that conservative politicians overestimated how conservative their constituency actually was.  That 10% is very, very loud.


There are relatively few genuine swing districts. Most seats in Congress reliably belong to one party or the other. Winning the primary means winning the seat, and primaries consist of a small number of committed individuals promoting their agenda.
 
2013-10-14 12:44:01 PM

Maud Dib: deeproy: [farm3.staticflickr.com image 500x376]

/hot

[i11.photobucket.com image 720x266]


We saw how well the current "commie" broke the hearts of all true Americans who requested President Obama to deliver a Death Star by 2016. The White House's excuse was typical, "the budget". They estimated that it would cost approximately $852,000,000,000,000,000 to build the Death Star citing a "study" by Lehigh University economics students.
 
2013-10-14 12:44:36 PM

Dinobot:  
"Direct intervention is necessary."


THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS.
 
2013-10-14 12:45:15 PM
Mugato:

Really, serious question, what is the "given" reason for the obsession with stopping Obamacare? And don't tell me that it'll cost too much. We waste more money on defense spending on shiat that we'll never even use and foreign aid that doesn't benefit us in the least than we ever will on health care for our own citizens.

The right wing hates poor people. The right wing wants poor people to starve, suffer, and die. To them, the poor are sinners who are being punished by God with poverty. The more money you have, the more Godly you are.

Assistance programs like Social Security, Medicare, and Obamacare thwart "God's Plan" to torment and exterminate the poor. It actually keeps them alive. It dares to lessen their suffering.

And to the right wing, this is an abomination unto their God (the God that loves war but hates sex. The God that pays more attention to the rich's greed than the cries of a starving child).

ts4.mm.bing.net
 
2013-10-14 12:45:22 PM
The tank is empty.
 
2013-10-14 12:46:11 PM
There's an obvious solution to this.


Article V of the Constitution specifies that if the legislatures of two-thirds of the states petition Congress for a constitutional amendment, then Congress must call a convention for proposing amendments.

Between April 29, 1975 and January 29, 1980, 34 petitions from 30 different state legislatures were submitted to Congress on the subject of a Balanced Budget Amendment. The participating states were Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, and Wyoming.

Since 1980, two additional state legislatures have petitioned Congress for a convention for a Balanced Budget Amendment, bringing the total number of participating states to 32.If two additional state legislatures were to petition, then the required two-thirds majority of states would be reached (34 out of 50 states), and Congress will be forced to call a Constitutional Convention.

In reality, of course, when the next state petitions, Congress will be forced to enact such an amendment themselves and send it to the states for ratification, to prevent such Constitutional Convention possibly passing to the state other popular changes to the constitution they may not like.
 
2013-10-14 12:50:34 PM
I know it might be heretical to suggest, but I have to wonder if maybe Left leaning individuals should swallow their pride and start throwing serious support and votes to the more moderate GOP candidates in red states. The principle of the lesser evil sucks, but if there's little to no chance of a Democrat victory somewhere...wouldn't you rather have the less insane Republican? And one who knows that he won because he received help from Democrats? Yes, accepting that help might hurt him some. But there has to be a point where the tradeoff is acceptable, doesn't there?

The Tea Party has been dragging the GOP further and further to the right by threatening to deny support. Maybe we could drive them more to the left by offering it?
 
2013-10-14 12:51:36 PM

Clutch2013: I've been here long enough. Up to this point, you've presented yourself to be smarter than this.


Well are you going just cast aspersions or do you have something useful to say?

Do you really want to debate that the Religious Right has had a hold on the old GOP?
How about debating that the RR doesn't want to control morality though legislation?
Oh wait, you think that the RR doesn't want more control!!

Both the RR and the modern day progressive Democrat have one thing in common, they believe they are better than you. You've seen it in this thread "morons" "they don't know what they are doing" "too stupid to know what is best for them". This leads to needing a large government to protect people from themselves, and trust me you need a really really big and intrusive government to protect someone from themselves.

I'd rather have a laissez faire Democrat in power than a RR Republican any day of the week. But right now we don't have that option.
 
2013-10-14 12:52:31 PM

SwiftFox: There's an obvious solution to this.


Article V of the Constitution specifies that if the legislatures of two-thirds of the states petition Congress for a constitutional amendment, then Congress must call a convention for proposing amendments.

Between April 29, 1975 and January 29, 1980, 34 petitions from 30 different state legislatures were submitted to Congress on the subject of a Balanced Budget Amendment. The participating states were Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, and Wyoming.

Since 1980, two additional state legislatures have petitioned Congress for a convention for a Balanced Budget Amendment, bringing the total number of participating states to 32.If two additional state legislatures were to petition, then the required two-thirds majority of states would be reached (34 out of 50 states), and Congress will be forced to call a Constitutional Convention.

In reality, of course, when the next state petitions, Congress will be forced to enact such an amendment themselves and send it to the states for ratification, to prevent such Constitutional Convention possibly passing to the state other popular changes to the constitution they may not like.


In any event, I'm not sure this is the best political environment in which to attempt adopting a new Constitution by consensus.
 
2013-10-14 12:53:54 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Clutch2013: I've been here long enough. Up to this point, you've presented yourself to be smarter than this.

Well are you going just cast aspersions or do you have something useful to say?

Do you really want to debate that the Religious Right has had a hold on the old GOP?
How about debating that the RR doesn't want to control morality though legislation?
Oh wait, you think that the RR doesn't want more control!!

Both the RR and the modern day progressive Democrat have one thing in common, they believe they are better than you. You've seen it in this thread "morons" "they don't know what they are doing" "too stupid to know what is best for them". This leads to needing a large government to protect people from themselves, and trust me you need a really really big and intrusive government to protect someone from themselves.

I'd rather have a laissez faire Democrat in power than a RR Republican any day of the week. But right now we don't have that option.


How about they just stop screwing me over. Let's go the completely selfish route here.
 
2013-10-14 12:54:35 PM
Turned out to be a bigger f#cking deal than thought, eh?

i.huffpost.com
 
2013-10-14 12:55:57 PM

GhostFish: I know it might be heretical to suggest, but I have to wonder if maybe Left leaning individuals should swallow their pride and start throwing serious support and votes to the more moderate GOP candidates in red states. The principle of the lesser evil sucks, but if there's little to no chance of a Democrat victory somewhere...wouldn't you rather have the less insane Republican? And one who knows that he won because he received help from Democrats? Yes, accepting that help might hurt him some. But there has to be a point where the tradeoff is acceptable, doesn't there?

The Tea Party has been dragging the GOP further and further to the right by threatening to deny support. Maybe we could drive them more to the left by offering it?


I dunno....I'm wondering just how ,inch damage the GOP can do to itself and survive. This shut down was bad enough, but if the tea party actually causes a default the damage to the republican brand could be a fatal wound they'll never recover from. It's almost worth dealing with the world wide economic disaster to see the GOP finally ended as a viable political party.

Almost.
 
2013-10-14 12:57:45 PM
The government shutdown, Needham insisted, was a step on "a path to electoral success."

I'm so glad the Heritage Foundation has this country's best interest at heart.

/Congress passed Obamacare
 
2013-10-14 12:57:51 PM

HotWingConspiracy: Nabb1: The more you tighten your grip, the more voters will slip through your fingers.

/Really? No one got to this before now?

These guys get it

[www.recordsale.de image 400x407]


i.cdn.turner.com
The .38 Special?
 
2013-10-14 12:58:08 PM

Lord_Baull: Fart_Machine: Mugato: orclover: Well if praying didnt fix the cancer, then you were not praying hard enough.

That sort of belief indicates a belief in a God who is a real dick. I don't see how anyone could argue that point.

I think that God's got a sick sense of humor.


A god that created the universe and everything in it also created Harlequin-type ichthyosis and Anencephaly, so yeah.


Think of a 85 year old woman.  Small, decrepit, pious.  Picture her on her knees, hands together praying, hard, out loud.  Praying for god to give that false prophet lying Muslim traitor who has kidnapped this country terminal cancer.  Blaming herself for not praying hard enough, for believing hard enough and letting the country down because it hasn't happened yet.  But she will keep trying, because she cant let her country down

Texas has a level of crazy that not many of you would understand.
 
2013-10-14 01:02:58 PM

TV's Vinnie: The right wing hates poor people. The right wing wants poor people to starve, suffer, and die.


I think this is a bit hyperbolic, and ignores the more benevolent if misguided goals of the GOP.
They don't want the poor to starve, suffer, and die. They just don't want the state to play such a large role in preventing it.
They want the poor to find support through the charity of their local churches and communities, where they'll supposedly learn to be better people and improve their lives through learning to depend on God rather than the state. And they believe that the state should help promote that, rather than cutting out God as the middleman.

It's all horribly misguided and not supported by the numbers, history, or Constitutional law.
But casting them as cruel monsters isn't going to help anything.

There are some Randian elements who probably do think along lines close to what you suggest. But they aren't representative of the whole right-wing. They've just worked their way to the top and to higher visibility by way of their sociopathic philosophy. If you're going to attack anyone, attack them. The rest of the right needs to see that these people have more in common with LaVeyan Satanism than Christianity.
 
2013-10-14 01:04:49 PM

orclover: Lord_Baull: Fart_Machine: Mugato: orclover: Well if praying didnt fix the cancer, then you were not praying hard enough.

That sort of belief indicates a belief in a God who is a real dick. I don't see how anyone could argue that point.

I think that God's got a sick sense of humor.


A god that created the universe and everything in it also created Harlequin-type ichthyosis and Anencephaly, so yeah.

Think of a 85 year old woman.  Small, decrepit, pious.  Picture her on her knees, hands together praying, hard, out loud.  Praying for god to give that false prophet lying Muslim traitor who has kidnapped this country terminal cancer.  Blaming herself for not praying hard enough, for believing hard enough and letting the country down because it hasn't happened yet.  But she will keep trying, because she cant let her country down

Texas has a level of crazy that not many of you would understand.


Visit rural Oregon sometime (especially southwestern Oregon)....  It's a different world.  We may be plenty blue along I-5, but once you're out of there, holy crap.

//It's not just the meth...
 
2013-10-14 01:05:39 PM

GhostFish: I know it might be heretical to suggest, but I have to wonder if maybe Left leaning individuals should swallow their pride and start throwing serious support and votes to the more moderate GOP candidates in red states. The principle of the lesser evil sucks, but if there's little to no chance of a Democrat victory somewhere...wouldn't you rather have the less insane Republican? And one who knows that he won because he received help from Democrats? Yes, accepting that help might hurt him some. But there has to be a point where the tradeoff is acceptable, doesn't there?

The Tea Party has been dragging the GOP further and further to the right by threatening to deny support. Maybe we could drive them more to the left by offering it?



The moderate Republicans are being primaried out of running for office by the Teabaggers; if you aren't registered as a Republican in most states you can't vote in their primary, so by the time the general election rolls around the choice is either a nutball crazy Teabagger or the Democrat opponent, sometimes an unknown Independent too. There are few moderate Republicans left in Congress.
 
2013-10-14 01:06:22 PM

GhostFish: I know it might be heretical to suggest, but I have to wonder if maybe Left leaning individuals should swallow their pride and start throwing serious support and votes to the more moderate GOP candidates in red states. The principle of the lesser evil sucks, but if there's little to no chance of a Democrat victory somewhere...wouldn't you rather have the less insane Republican? And one who knows that he won because he received help from Democrats? Yes, accepting that help might hurt him some. But there has to be a point where the tradeoff is acceptable, doesn't there?

The Tea Party has been dragging the GOP further and further to the right by threatening to deny support. Maybe we could drive them more to the left by offering it?



Typical GOP solution: let the Dems fix the problems we created.
 
2013-10-14 01:07:01 PM

GhostFish: TV's Vinnie: The right wing hates poor people. The right wing wants poor people to starve, suffer, and die.

I think this is a bit hyperbolic, and ignores the more benevolent if misguided goals of the GOP.
They don't want the poor to starve, suffer, and die. They just don't want the state to play such a large role in preventing it.
They want the poor to find support through the charity of their local churches and communities, where they'll supposedly learn to be better people and improve their lives through learning to depend on God rather than the state. And they believe that the state should help promote that, rather than cutting out God as the middleman.

It's all horribly misguided and not supported by the numbers, history, or Constitutional law.
But casting them as cruel monsters isn't going to help anything.

There are some Randian elements who probably do think along lines close to what you suggest. But they aren't representative of the whole right-wing. They've just worked their way to the top and to higher visibility by way of their sociopathic philosophy. If you're going to attack anyone, attack them. The rest of the right needs to see that these people have more in common with LaVeyan Satanism than Christianity.


No, I think its fair to characterize the GOP goals and idology as monsterous. They want to turn this country into a theocracy and force us to worship their gods. I'd call that pretty monsterous. ESP since theocracies tend to do very bad things to unbelievers and heretics.
 
2013-10-14 01:08:55 PM

TheShavingofOccam123: I'm so glad the Heritage Foundation has this country's best interest at heart.

/Congress passed Obamacare


You find me one politician that doesn't think that them winning isn't good for the country and I'll see that quote as a negative.

Everyone thinks they are on the correct side! It's isn't a Joss Whedon tv show! People on the whole do not do evil just for the sake of doing evil. Haven't you heard "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"? I really think that the President and the Democrats thought that the ACA would be a good thing. And believe it or not there is some good stuff in there. But by the time we cobbled it all together it became a monster that needs to be put down.
 
2013-10-14 01:08:58 PM

Mugato: orclover: Well if praying didnt fix the cancer, then you were not praying hard enough.

That sort of belief indicates a belief in a God who is a real dick. I don't see how anyone could argue that point.


Man creates God in his own image.
 
2013-10-14 01:09:25 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: [i.imgur.com image 614x383]


I wondered why that chart seemed to show an opposite trend  to most other charts, then I saw "Heritage Foundation" at the bottom.  Ah.
 
2013-10-14 01:10:03 PM
images1.dailykos.com
 
2013-10-14 01:10:41 PM
It's the internet's fault.

It's now too easy for someone to fire up their eMachine and open up AOL and find their Congressperson's email and take virtual crayon in fist to bleat "Yew's gonna get piemarried if'n Fartbongocare interferes with my SSI Disability."

I'm not blaming the email writer, but the craven cowards who fire up the Confirmation Bias 5000 and say "See!! This person is saying what *everyone* is saying, and, I have a nice house and need my paycheck, so, nation be damned!"
 
2013-10-14 01:11:30 PM

anfrind: Mugato: orclover: Well if praying didnt fix the cancer, then you were not praying hard enough.

That sort of belief indicates a belief in a God who is a real dick. I don't see how anyone could argue that point.

Man creates God in his own image.


I was so pissed when they took that line out of the director's cut.
 
2013-10-14 01:11:35 PM

Weaver95: I dunno....I'm wondering just how ,inch damage the GOP can do to itself and survive. This shut down was bad enough, but if the tea party actually causes a default the damage to the republican brand could be a fatal wound they'll never recover from. It's almost worth dealing with the world wide economic disaster to see the GOP finally ended as a viable political party.

Almost.


I would absolutely love to see the GOP collapse. I think it would be the beginning of a renewal of our entire system of government, as I have serious doubts that the Democratic party could really continue to survive in its current form without the two parties propping each other up. A lot of awful things that both parties currently get away with would suddenly be up for serious debate, as they couldn't really depend on the principle of the lesser evil to protect them as much.

But I don't think that forcing such a revolutionary change would necessarily be in our best interests. A slower, more natural and controllable change would be preferable to a catastrophic upheaval of the way things currently work.
 
2013-10-14 01:13:52 PM
To piss off a Republican, quote this: Mark 3:25

/Your welcome.
 
2013-10-14 01:14:15 PM

GhostFish: I know it might be heretical to suggest, but I have to wonder if maybe Left leaning individuals should swallow their pride and start throwing serious support and votes to the more moderate GOP candidates in red states. The principle of the lesser evil sucks, but if there's little to no chance of a Democrat victory somewhere...wouldn't you rather have the less insane Republican? And one who knows that he won because he received help from Democrats? Yes, accepting that help might hurt him some. But there has to be a point where the tradeoff is acceptable, doesn't there?

The Tea Party has been dragging the GOP further and further to the right by threatening to deny support. Maybe we could drive them more to the left by offering it?


If you live in a gerrymandered district where only one party has any chance of winning, you could register with the majority party (even if you disagree with most of their platform) and then vote in the primaries for the most moderate candidate.  It might not accomplish much, but in a gerrymandered district it might accomplish more than voting for the minority party candidate would.
 
2013-10-14 01:14:56 PM

Weaver95: No, I think its fair to characterize the GOP goals and idology as monsterous. They want to turn this country into a theocracy and force us to worship their gods. I'd call that pretty monsterous. ESP since theocracies tend to do very bad things to unbelievers and heretics.


You see that's why I like the Ted Cruz, Rand Paul and Marco Rubio of the party. A lot more smaller government talk with much less Jebus talk.

"I am always skeptical of politicians who say, 'I'm running because God told me to." -Ted Cruz
 
2013-10-14 01:15:43 PM

HindiDiscoMonster: To piss off a Republican, quote this: Mark 3:25

/Your welcome.


I asked one if she was a sheep or a goat. She almost assploded in rage.
 
2013-10-14 01:16:49 PM

Zeb Hesselgresser: Turned out to be a bigger f#cking deal than thought, eh?

[i.huffpost.com image 260x190]


Yea, I guess all those conservatives saying "slimdown" were wrong.
 
2013-10-14 01:17:36 PM

Holfax: I wondered why that chart seemed to show an opposite trend to most other charts, then I saw "Heritage Foundation" at the bottom. Ah.


That was a projection by Heritage if the Bush tax cuts were passed. They were and Heritage was a wee bit off. Yet we should totally take them seriously now!
 
2013-10-14 01:17:38 PM

Witty_Retort: HindiDiscoMonster: To piss off a Republican, quote this: Mark 3:25

/Your welcome.

I asked one if she was a sheep or a goat. She almost assploded in rage.


Yeah, that one really, REALLY pisses them off.
 
2013-10-14 01:18:07 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: TheShavingofOccam123: I'm so glad the Heritage Foundation has this country's best interest at heart.

/Congress passed Obamacare

You find me one politician that doesn't think that them winning isn't good for the country and I'll see that quote as a negative.

Everyone thinks they are on the correct side! It's isn't a Joss Whedon tv show! People on the whole do not do evil just for the sake of doing evil. Haven't you heard "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"? I really think that the President and the Democrats thought that the ACA would be a good thing. And believe it or not there is some good stuff in there. But by the time we cobbled it all together it became a monster that needs to be put down.


At the risk of a global economic catastrophe if America defaults?
 
2013-10-14 01:20:03 PM

Weaver95: No, I think its fair to characterize the GOP goals and idology as monsterous. They want to turn this country into a theocracy and force us to worship their gods. I'd call that pretty monsterous. ESP since theocracies tend to do very bad things to unbelievers and heretics.


The Theocratic elements are certainly frightening in their own right. I'm just not convinced that it's fair or accurate to say that they're motivated by hate and disdain for the poor.
 
2013-10-14 01:20:20 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Weaver95: No, I think its fair to characterize the GOP goals and idology as monsterous. They want to turn this country into a theocracy and force us to worship their gods. I'd call that pretty monsterous. ESP since theocracies tend to do very bad things to unbelievers and heretics.

You see that's why I like the Ted Cruz, Rand Paul and Marco Rubio of the party. A lot more smaller government talk with much less Jebus talk.

"I am always skeptical of politicians who say, 'I'm running because God told me to." -Ted Cruz


You mean the same Rand Paul who just said there's a worldwide war on Christianity, and the duty of America is to protect Christians from Muslims?
 
2013-10-14 01:21:28 PM
FTFA: "There's no question in my mind that I have more influence now on public policy than I did as an individual senator," DeMint told NPR recently.

Yeah, and we all know who to thank for that one ...
 
2013-10-14 01:23:32 PM

GhostFish: Weaver95: No, I think its fair to characterize the GOP goals and idology as monsterous. They want to turn this country into a theocracy and force us to worship their gods. I'd call that pretty monsterous. ESP since theocracies tend to do very bad things to unbelievers and heretics.

The Theocratic elements are certainly frightening in their own right. I'm just not convinced that it's fair or accurate to say that they're motivated by hate and disdain for the poor.


Read up on the prosperity gospel sometime. That's the biggest theological faction among GOP evangelical groups within the party. A very toxic and corrupt variant of heretical christianity that justifies almost any action taken by the rich and powerful.
 
2013-10-14 01:24:05 PM

grumpfuff: You mean the same Rand Paul who just said there's a worldwide war on Christianity, and the duty of America is to protect Christians from Muslims?


I said less. And that's not exactly "God told me to" which frankly is the scariest thing a politician can say.

Well, maybe second to "We're from the government and we're here to help"
 
2013-10-14 01:27:48 PM

neversubmit: The tank is empty.


i236.photobucket.com
 
2013-10-14 01:31:56 PM

GhostFish: maybe Left leaning individuals should swallow their pride and start throwing serious support and votes to the more moderate GOP candidates in red states.



Like who?  And what does "moderate" mean?  Temperament?

Take for example Jon Huntsman.  Everybody's favorite "moderate."  I understand he's a nice guy with pretty teeth and hair, but he has no substantive disagreements with Michell Bachmann.

Fact is candidates are just wrappers of personality.  The only thing that really tells you anything about their policy positions is the party they belong to -- whether they have a crazed look in their eye or not.  And the present GOP platform is nearly 100% unsupportable.  Ergo, they'll get none of my votes.
 
2013-10-14 01:33:03 PM

GhostFish: TV's Vinnie: The right wing hates poor people. The right wing wants poor people to starve, suffer, and die.

I think this is a bit hyperbolic, and ignores the more benevolent if misguided goals of the GOP.


-- benevolent
-- gop

emotibot.net
 
2013-10-14 01:34:17 PM

GhostFish: I know it might be heretical to suggest, but I have to wonder if maybe Left leaning individuals should swallow their pride and start throwing serious support and votes to the more moderate GOP candidates in red states. The principle of the lesser evil sucks, but if there's little to no chance of a Democrat victory somewhere...wouldn't you rather have the less insane Republican? And one who knows that he won because he received help from Democrats? Yes, accepting that help might hurt him some. But there has to be a point where the tradeoff is acceptable, doesn't there?

The Tea Party has been dragging the GOP further and further to the right by threatening to deny support. Maybe we could drive them more to the left by offering it?


The problem is, the less insane Republicans act to enable the more insane ones.  Just look at the shutdown; how many Republicans have spoken out to say how stupid and crazy this is?  And yet none have broken ranks to end it.

If the crazy assholes are just going to run things anyway, I'd honestly rather it be them that win the elections than their enablers.  At least then, their crazy is front-and-center where everybody can see it.
 
2013-10-14 01:35:06 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: You find me one politician that doesn't think that them winning isn't good for the country and I'll see that quote as a negative.


Conservatives see "the country" as only "people like me"

So yes, they think they are doing good for "the country"  by harming most Americans.
 
2013-10-14 01:36:08 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: grumpfuff: You mean the same Rand Paul who just said there's a worldwide war on Christianity, and the duty of America is to protect Christians from Muslims?

I said less. And that's not exactly "God told me to" which frankly is the scariest thing a politician can say.

Well, maybe second to "We're from the government and we're here to help"


Take faith in Reagan's ancient campaign slogans, for they are true and righteous and wise. Never trust your own elected government and fill it only with men pledged to be its enemies. And buy lots of gold for when your society collapses into ruin.
 
2013-10-14 01:37:32 PM
How can the Republicans "authentically lead" when they lose elections? How is their leadership "authentic"?
 
2013-10-14 01:38:51 PM

Mugato: Don't be too proud of this Tea Party terror you've constructed. The ability to attempt to destroy Obamacare is insignificant next to the power of people who have brain stems.

Really, serious question, what is the "given" reason for the obsession with stopping Obamacare? And don't tell me that it'll cost too much. We waste more money on defense spending on shiat that we'll never even use and foreign aid that doesn't benefit us in the least than we ever will on health care for our own citizens.



Well that is the given reason... that it will cost too much. It's bullshiat, but that's the reason they'll give you. It isn't the real reason though. The real reason for the obsession with "Obamacare"? Power. It all comes back to power.

The legislators doing this don't have the power they need to force through the things they want so they're resorting to extorionist tactics.

The legislators doing this don't want to lose the power they have by being primaried out by their far-right constituencies if they compromise with Democrats, so to them personally these tactics are more acceptable than the alternative.

The constituents they seek to represent are typically older, white, christians.... and they want the power back they see slipping away in a country which is increasingly brown and secular. Because they tend towards religious fundamentalism they also seek power over the lives of those who don't share their beliefs, who they consider inferior. And when you have the strength of fundamentalist religious convictions (about the risk/reward consequences to the nation) self-delusion can be an incredibly powerful thing.
 
2013-10-14 01:39:32 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: grumpfuff: You mean the same Rand Paul who just said there's a worldwide war on Christianity, and the duty of America is to protect Christians from Muslims?

I said less. And that's not exactly "God told me to" which frankly is the scariest thing a politician can say.

Well, maybe second to "We're from the government and we're here to help"


Sure, it's not AS scary as "God told me to." But it's still pretty farking frightening. I don't see it as drastically different. It's still calling for the government to act in a religiously-motivated manner.
 
2013-10-14 01:39:36 PM
Weaver95:   Read up on the prosperity gospel sometime. That's the biggest theological faction among GOP evangelical groups within the party. A very toxic and corrupt variant of heretical christianity that justifies almost any action taken by the rich and powerful.

24.media.tumblr.com


you need a hobby
 
2013-10-14 01:40:36 PM

Zeb Hesselgresser: Weaver95:   Read up on the prosperity gospel sometime. That's the biggest theological faction among GOP evangelical groups within the party. A very toxic and corrupt variant of heretical christianity that justifies almost any action taken by the rich and powerful.

[24.media.tumblr.com image 500x313]

you need a hobby


Coming from Mr. "I come into threats to post one-liners and/or terrible jpgs and gifs", that's rich.
 
2013-10-14 01:42:31 PM

Zeb Hesselgresser: Weaver95:   Read up on the prosperity gospel sometime. That's the biggest theological faction among GOP evangelical groups within the party. A very toxic and corrupt variant of heretical christianity that justifies almost any action taken by the rich and powerful.



you need a hobby


Are you saying those people aren't real? You should check out late night and Sunday morning TV.
 
2013-10-14 01:46:15 PM
I think the Supreme Court deserves a big "fark you" for Citizens United, which is the lube that makes this rape possible.
 
2013-10-14 01:53:16 PM

Shakin_Haitian: Zeb Hesselgresser: Weaver95:   Read up on the prosperity gospel sometime. That's the biggest theological faction among GOP evangelical groups within the party. A very toxic and corrupt variant of heretical christianity that justifies almost any action taken by the rich and powerful.

you need a hobby

Are you saying those people aren't real? You should check out late night and Sunday morning TV.


No, I'm saying they are not to be feared.
 
2013-10-14 01:56:42 PM

Zeb Hesselgresser: Shakin_Haitian: Zeb Hesselgresser: Weaver95:   Read up on the prosperity gospel sometime. That's the biggest theological faction among GOP evangelical groups within the party. A very toxic and corrupt variant of heretical christianity that justifies almost any action taken by the rich and powerful.

you need a hobby

Are you saying those people aren't real? You should check out late night and Sunday morning TV.

No, I'm saying they are not to be feared.


Do you realize how much money the prosperity gospel preachers have put into the republican party? Billions, that's the short answer. They are a very real threat to the rest of us.
 
2013-10-14 01:58:06 PM

TheShavingofOccam123: The Stealth Hippopotamus: TheShavingofOccam123: I'm so glad the Heritage Foundation has this country's best interest at heart.

/Congress passed Obamacare

You find me one politician that doesn't think that them winning isn't good for the country and I'll see that quote as a negative.

Everyone thinks they are on the correct side! It's isn't a Joss Whedon tv show! People on the whole do not do evil just for the sake of doing evil. Haven't you heard "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"? I really think that the President and the Democrats thought that the ACA would be a good thing. And believe it or not there is some good stuff in there. But by the time we cobbled it all together it became a monster that needs to be put down.

At the risk of a global economic catastrophe if America defaults?


How else are they going to Go Galt and achieve Randian nirvana unless you destroy the entire economy?
 
2013-10-14 02:01:24 PM

grumpfuff: Zeb Hesselgresser: Weaver95:   Read up on the prosperity gospel sometime. That's the biggest theological faction among GOP evangelical groups within the party. A very toxic and corrupt variant of heretical christianity that justifies almost any action taken by the rich and powerful.

[24.media.tumblr.com image 500x313]

you need a hobby

Coming from Mr. "I come into threats to post one-liners and/or terrible jpgs and gifs", that's rich.


HEY!!

I've spent some very enjoyable hours postings jpegs and gifs.
 
2013-10-14 02:03:41 PM

Zeb Hesselgresser: Shakin_Haitian: Zeb Hesselgresser: Weaver95:   Read up on the prosperity gospel sometime. That's the biggest theological faction among GOP evangelical groups within the party. A very toxic and corrupt variant of heretical christianity that justifies almost any action taken by the rich and powerful.

you need a hobby

Are you saying those people aren't real? You should check out late night and Sunday morning TV.

No, I'm saying they are not to be feared.


bonzer5.com

Except we're learning the man behind this curtain is more evil and dangerous that the false image he projects.
 
2013-10-14 02:05:49 PM

skozlaw: The predominant belief seems to be that Congress can't approve new spending unless there's room in the Treasury's spending authority even though the whole reason the current limit is being hit is because previous Congresses did exactly the opposite by approving spending they couldn't pay for.

It's no wonder go-tards like Cruz manage to get elected. People have absolute no idea what's going on, no interest in learning, but they're very, very angry about it anyway.


Even members of congress seem to think this.
 
2013-10-14 02:09:23 PM

Zeb Hesselgresser: Turned out to be a bigger f#cking deal than thought, eh?

[i.huffpost.com image 260x190]


are any of the things you post supposed to make sense, or are you just proud of your newly found ability to post pictures?
 
2013-10-14 02:13:32 PM
Weaver95:   They are a very real threat to the rest of us.

Yeah, well, . . . nope, I don't see the threat.  I think $80+ trillion dollars in unfunded liabilities is a threat, but gospel preachers?  You're pulling my leg, right?
 
2013-10-14 02:14:57 PM

Zeb Hesselgresser: Weaver95:   Read up on the prosperity gospel sometime. That's the biggest theological faction among GOP evangelical groups within the party. A very toxic and corrupt variant of heretical christianity that justifies almost any action taken by the rich and powerful.

[24.media.tumblr.com image 500x313]

you need a hobby


Staying informed is a hobby of sorts.

Staying ignorant seems to be more of a job with some.
 
2013-10-14 02:15:43 PM

Satan's Bunny Slippers: Zeb Hesselgresser: Turned out to be a bigger f#cking deal than thought, eh?

[i.huffpost.com image 260x190]

are any of the things you post supposed to make sense, or are you just proud of your newly found ability to post pictures?


i.imgur.com
 
2013-10-14 02:19:12 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: grumpfuff: Zeb Hesselgresser: Weaver95:   Read up on the prosperity gospel sometime. That's the biggest theological faction among GOP evangelical groups within the party. A very toxic and corrupt variant of heretical christianity that justifies almost any action taken by the rich and powerful.

[24.media.tumblr.com image 500x313]

you need a hobby

Coming from Mr. "I come into threats to post one-liners and/or terrible jpgs and gifs", that's rich.

HEY!!

I've spent some very enjoyable hours postings jpegs and gifs.


The bolded part is key. There is nothing terrible about yoga pants or redhead threads, except maybe that there aren't enough of them
 
2013-10-14 02:33:23 PM

Zeb Hesselgresser: Weaver95:   They are a very real threat to the rest of us.

Yeah, well, . . . nope, I don't see the threat.  I think $80+ trillion dollars in unfunded liabilities is a threat, but gospel preachers?  You're pulling my leg, right?


Anyone with that much money at their disposal is influential, especially in this society. Or did you seriously mean to suggest that money dosent influence US poltics?
 
2013-10-14 02:40:16 PM

grumpfuff: There is nothing terrible about yoga pants


CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!

yogadork.com
 
2013-10-14 02:41:33 PM
The Teatards are a think tank?  Don't you need some modicum of intelligence and education to be a think tank?  The Tea Party is more like a tank of raw sewage, filled with all the verbal diarrhea that comes spewing out its collective mouths.
 
2013-10-14 02:42:59 PM

jst3p: grumpfuff: There is nothing terrible about yoga pants

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!

[yogadork.com image 580x318]


You're a terrible person and should feel bad.

/but it might float someone's boat, so there's that
 
2013-10-14 02:45:44 PM
To the tea party, a "think tank" is were you take people that think about things, and drown them.
 
2013-10-14 02:48:15 PM
Tea Party and think are words that don't go together.
 
2013-10-14 02:48:42 PM

Zeb Hesselgresser: Satan's Bunny Slippers: Zeb Hesselgresser: Turned out to be a bigger f#cking deal than thought, eh?

[i.huffpost.com image 260x190]

are any of the things you post supposed to make sense, or are you just proud of your newly found ability to post pictures?

[i.imgur.com image 468x356]


heh.

I'll allow it.  Please continue.  =)
 
2013-10-14 02:50:05 PM

Mugato: Don't be too proud of this Tea Party terror you've constructed. The ability to attempt to destroy Obamacare is insignificant next to the power of people who have brain stems.


Brain stems...has your sad devotion to that ancient biological fluke granted you clairvoyance enough to find the ACORN hidden base? Or to locate the Gay Agenda?
 
2013-10-14 02:52:23 PM

jst3p: grumpfuff: There is nothing terrible about yoga pants

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!

[yogadork.com image 580x318]


encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com

I did small so as not to upset lunches...
 
2013-10-14 03:12:43 PM

Satan's Bunny Slippers: I did small so as not to upset lunches...


I off set.

img89.imageshack.us
 
2013-10-14 03:22:50 PM

Diogenes: Zeb Hesselgresser: Shakin_Haitian: Zeb Hesselgresser: Weaver95:   Read up on the prosperity gospel sometime. That's the biggest theological faction among GOP evangelical groups within the party. A very toxic and corrupt variant of heretical christianity that justifies almost any action taken by the rich and powerful.

you need a hobby

Are you saying those people aren't real? You should check out late night and Sunday morning TV.

No, I'm saying they are not to be feared.

[bonzer5.com image 500x333]

Except we're learning the man behind this curtain is more evil and dangerous that the false image he projects.


Combine this with End Times believers, who secretly accept global climate change and the damage we're doing to the environment, but it doesn't matter, see, since Jeesus is a-comin' back Real Soon Now, and all this was prophesied anyway as the bad ol' Great Tribulation stuff (e.g. Revelation 16:8−9 re: global warming and/or ozone depletion, and prior verses in the same chapter re: oceanic and inland water pollution [especially "red tide"]), so we can go ahead and take the big bucks from the corporate pollutocrats (spelling intentional) to further the cause of Christ. He'll love that (never mind that bit in Revelation about God destroying them that destroyeth the Earth). Also no need to worry about leaving a functioning economy and civilization for our offspring, 'cuz we're all about to be Raptured any day now, and the unsaved heathens can just deal with the mess we made of things.

If Christianity at all is true, then all of these (pretty much all of right-wing fundamentalist evangelical "Christianity"), most especially including Prosperity Gospel and New Apostolic Reformation (aka NARaites ― ask Great Porn Dragon about them) and other Dominionists, are collectively the Second Beast aka False Prophet of Revelation. The First aka Great Beast often mis-called "the Antichrist" whom the Second Beast aka False Prophet persuades its followers to worship like unto God Himself, is Corporate Personhood. And Bablyon the Great is the modern USA under their rule. All of this can be backed up from the Bible, and is according to the interpretations (he refers to them as "discernments") of a man who claims to be none other than one of the Two Witnesses of Revelation. I don't seriously believe him, but his exegesis is interesting indeed, and it does seem to fit.
 
2013-10-14 03:43:33 PM
Thinktank? Think? HA! That's rich.
 
2013-10-14 03:44:31 PM

COMALite J: Combine this with End Times believers, who secretly accept global climate change and the damage we're doing to the environment, but it doesn't matter, see, since Jeesus is a-comin' back Real Soon Now


I've come up with a theory that natural resource companies are bankrolling seminaries to proliferate the end of times message just so slackjaws won't mind when they destroy the environment.
 
2013-10-14 04:12:16 PM

COMALite J: Diogenes: Zeb Hesselgresser: Shakin_Haitian: Zeb Hesselgresser: Weaver95:   Read up on the prosperity gospel sometime. That's the biggest theological faction among GOP evangelical groups within the party. A very toxic and corrupt variant of heretical christianity that justifies almost any action taken by the rich and powerful.

you need a hobby

Are you saying those people aren't real? You should check out late night and Sunday morning TV.

No, I'm saying they are not to be feared.

[bonzer5.com image 500x333]

Except we're learning the man behind this curtain is more evil and dangerous that the false image he projects.

Combine this with End Times believers, who secretly accept global climate change and the damage we're doing to the environment, but it doesn't matter, see, since Jeesus is a-comin' back Real Soon Now, and all this was prophesied anyway as the bad ol' Great Tribulation stuff (e.g. Revelation 16:8−9 re: global warming and/or ozone depletion, and prior verses in the same chapter re: oceanic and inland water pollution [especially "red tide"]), so we can go ahead and take the big bucks from the corporate pollutocrats (spelling intentional) to further the cause of Christ. He'll love that (never mind that bit in Revelation about God destroying them that destroyeth the Earth). Also no need to worry about leaving a functioning economy and civilization for our offspring, 'cuz we're all about to be Raptured any day now, and the unsaved heathens can just deal with the mess we made of things.

If Christianity at all is true, then all of these (pretty much all of right-wing fundamentalist evangelical "Christianity"), most especially including Prosperity Gospel and New Apostolic Reformation (aka NARaites ― ask Great Porn Dragon about them) and other Dominionists, are collectively the Second Beast aka False Prophet of Revelation. The First aka Great Beast often mis-called "the Antichrist" whom the Second Beast aka False Prophet persuades its followers to worship like unto God Himself, is Corporate Personhood. And Bablyon the Great is the modern USA under their rule. All of this can be backed up from the Bible, and is according to the interpretations (he refers to them as "discernments") of a man who claims to be none other than one of the Two Witnesses of Revelation. I don't seriously believe him, but his exegesis is interesting indeed, and it does seem to fit.


It's a cool theory, but the problem with prophecies is that you can cram any situation into them and make it work.
 
2013-10-14 04:19:09 PM

vharshyde: Thinktank? Think? HA! That's rich.


Derp Tank.
 
2013-10-14 04:36:39 PM

vpb: The Republican party is at war with itself.

Maybe we should allow open cary in the house?


As long as there's no fighting in the war room.
 
2013-10-14 04:43:00 PM

Victoly: vpb: The Republican party is at war with itself.

Maybe we should allow open cary in the house?

As long as there's no fighting in the war room.


And no sex in the champagne room.
 
2013-10-14 05:26:55 PM

BMulligan: timujin: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Peter von Nostrand: Except the represent all of their constituents. Not 10% of them

I think the number is a little higher then 10% or the representatives would just ignore them.

There was a study recently that showed that conservative politicians overestimated how conservative their constituency actually was.  That 10% is very, very loud.

There are relatively few genuine swing districts. Most seats in Congress reliably belong to one party or the other. Winning the primary means winning the seat, and primaries consist of a small number of committed individuals promoting their agenda.


What party you are, who votes for you, isn't the same as the people you represent.  I know it's hard to believe considering how things go these days, but a Representative should (should, mind you) take into account the needs and desires of all of the citizens in his or her district.
 
2013-10-14 05:38:31 PM

Weaver95: Do you realize how much money the prosperity gospel preachers have put into the republican party? Billions, that's the short answer. They are a very real threat to the rest of us.


And this is nothing new.  John Glenn followed the prosperity gospel from the Presbyterians.  It's just more blatantly in everyone's face.
 
2013-10-14 06:23:54 PM

HindiDiscoMonster: To piss off a Republican, quote this: Mark 3:25

/Your welcome.


Try  Proverbs 16:18.
 
2013-10-14 06:33:47 PM

timujin: BMulligan: timujin: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Peter von Nostrand: Except the represent all of their constituents. Not 10% of them

I think the number is a little higher then 10% or the representatives would just ignore them.

There was a study recently that showed that conservative politicians overestimated how conservative their constituency actually was.  That 10% is very, very loud.

There are relatively few genuine swing districts. Most seats in Congress reliably belong to one party or the other. Winning the primary means winning the seat, and primaries consist of a small number of committed individuals promoting their agenda.

What party you are, who votes for you, isn't the same as the people you represent.  I know it's hard to believe considering how things go these days, but a Representative should (should, mind you) take into account the needs and desires of all of the citizens in his or her district.


Oh, I agree. But I don't think you have to look far to find elected officials who feel beholden to, indeed who are part of, a group of neo-Confederate radicals who believe they are fighting God's fight. And the constituents they live among might mostly agree.
 
2013-10-14 06:54:48 PM

BMulligan: timujin: BMulligan: timujin: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Peter von Nostrand: Except the represent all of their constituents. Not 10% of them

I think the number is a little higher then 10% or the representatives would just ignore them.

There was a study recently that showed that conservative politicians overestimated how conservative their constituency actually was.  That 10% is very, very loud.

There are relatively few genuine swing districts. Most seats in Congress reliably belong to one party or the other. Winning the primary means winning the seat, and primaries consist of a small number of committed individuals promoting their agenda.

What party you are, who votes for you, isn't the same as the people you represent.  I know it's hard to believe considering how things go these days, but a Representative should (should, mind you) take into account the needs and desires of all of the citizens in his or her district.

Oh, I agree. But I don't think you have to look far to find elected officials who feel beholden to, indeed who are part of, a group of neo-Confederate radicals who believe they are fighting God's fight. And the constituents they live among might mostly agree.


oh, sure, bring reality into it and despoil my lofty dreams where politicians actually try to do what's best for their constituents rather than just try to appease the loudest minority in order to insure their reelection.
 
2013-10-14 08:39:49 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Clutch2013: I've been here long enough. Up to this point, you've presented yourself to be smarter than this.

Well are you going just cast aspersions or do you have something useful to say?

Do you really want to debate that the Religious Right has had a hold on the old GOP?


No.  Why debate what's painfully obvious?  And how did you jump to that conclusion?

How about debating that the RR doesn't want to control morality though legislation?

Again, no.

Oh wait, you think that the RR doesn't want more control!!

farm5.staticflickr.com

Both the RR and the modern day progressive Democrat have one thing in common, they believe they are better than you. You've seen it in this thread "morons" "they don't know what they are doing" "too stupid to know what is best for them". This leads to needing a large government to protect people from themselves, and trust me you need a really really big and intrusive government to protect someone from themselves.


And if there's one thing I can say about the Democratic individual, it's that he or she will be far less insulting to my intelligence and perhaps, however remote the possibility, open to actually modifying their world view in light of contradictory evidence.  I can disagree with that individual completely and, at the end of the day, still leave the discussion not feeling like I've just spent a significant amount of time punching myself in the face AND not wishing horrible things on the other person.

I get where larger government is a bad thing.  I really do.  Most of what NYC's doing nowadays is enough to earn them hard stares from Tommy Lee Jones now and forevermore.  Speed cameras and stupid shiat like that, sure.  Knock yourself out.  But healthcare?  Seriously?  Of all the things to rail against, is that really something that should be trapped under that spooky umbrella of things that make Republicans piss themselves in fright?  Healthcare shouldn't be seen as "BIG GUBMINT!!!!111!!!  RALLY TEH TRUPZ111!!!111!"  It should be something we approach and embrace with open arms, because given enough time, it can start to mitigate and solve other, more remotely-related problems.  Same thing goes for education.  Same thing for reducing the amount of people that are homeless, or hungry.  Same thing for trying to get jobs back that pay well and don't involve the words "You want fries with that?"  I could go on and on, but the point/question is this: why in the flying fark is wanting to give people better situations "big gubmint"?

I'd rather have a laissez faire Democrat in power than a RR Republican any day of the week. But right now we don't have that option.

Thing about laissez faire is that it requires us to put an incredible amount of faith in the corporations.  And no matter how benevolent they are or claim to be, at the end of the day, when it comes down to profits and doing the right thing, it's painfully obvious which way they're going to be kicking the pendulum.
 
2013-10-14 09:20:45 PM

vpb: The Republican party is at war with itself.

Maybe we should allow open cary in the house?


Well, I, for one, would watch CSPAN religiously if they open-carried in the chamber.

I always thought it disappointing that the US Congress wasn't more like South Korea's National Assembly or the Japanese Diet. Because, you know, they like to punch each other.
 
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