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(LA Times)   "The Tea Party now has direct control over their representatives. Fear will keep the Republicans in line. Fear of this think tank"   (latimes.com) divider line 162
    More: Scary, Michigan Republicans, Senator Ted Cruz, GOP, Jim DeMint, humans, political parties in the United States, Justin Amash, Heritage Action for America  
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3603 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Oct 2013 at 11:58 AM (49 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-14 10:28:55 AM
userserve-ak.last.fm 
"Direct intervention is necessary."
 
2013-10-14 10:31:08 AM
For the record, I'm glad that walking embarrassment is no longer representing me.  However, it is depressingly unsurprising that it is a Dixie doofus seeking to pull the country back to the simpler times of yore that never existed.
 
2013-10-14 10:33:01 AM
I believe "think tank" is a bit gracious.  But snark aside, it's not a factual definition of Heritage.

Demint's definitely a man to watch, though.  It will be interesting to see how he chooses to balance his ideological backers (The Family, teabaggers, et al) and his financial backers.  This fabricated crisis has made many of the latter reconsider this dangerous path.
 
2013-10-14 10:34:52 AM
I've never understood how representatives being in line with their constituency is a bad thing.

That is kind of what representative means.
 
2013-10-14 10:37:23 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I've never understood how representatives being in line with their constituency is a bad thing.

That is kind of what representative means.


It's not the only item in their job responsibilities.
 
2013-10-14 10:38:04 AM
Jim DeMint: Jesse Helms without the charm
 
2013-10-14 10:39:31 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I've never understood how representatives being in line with their constituency is a bad thing.

That is kind of what representative means.


No, a representative is supposed to be a buffer between the mob and the levers of power.  A representative represents his constituents views, but he also is supposed to temper their worst impulses.
 
2013-10-14 10:42:01 AM
Hehe...thinking more about my post.  Jim's got to navigate between K Street and C Street.

I hope the cliffs smash him.
 
2013-10-14 10:43:02 AM

Mentat: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I've never understood how representatives being in line with their constituency is a bad thing.

That is kind of what representative means.

No, a representative is supposed to be a buffer between the mob and the levers of power.  A representative represents his constituents views, but he also is supposed to temper their worst impulses.


And he's supposed to look out for his/her constituents best interests. Convo mic collapse is in no one's best interest.
 
2013-10-14 10:43:10 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-10-14 10:47:46 AM

Dinobot: [userserve-ak.last.fm image 400x400] 
"Direct intervention is necessary."


So in this scenario, Obama is Shepard?

I like that.
 
2013-10-14 10:47:47 AM

Mentat: No, a representative is supposed to be a buffer between the mob and the levers of power. A representative represents his constituents views, but he also is supposed to temper their worst impulses.


Maybe once upon a time. Before the internet, phones and email you just elected the representative and sent him to Washington and hoped for the best. A few years later you gave him a performance review and if enough people approved he got to back. That's when it took weeks if not a month to get to Washington. Now-a-days the representative doesn't have to guess about what the people want.
 
2013-10-14 10:47:47 AM
I find your lack of votes disturbing.
 
2013-10-14 10:53:21 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I've never understood how representatives being in line with their constituency is a bad thing.

That is kind of what representative means.


Except the represent all of their constituents. Not 10% of them
 
2013-10-14 10:55:36 AM

Peter von Nostrand: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I've never understood how representatives being in line with their constituency is a bad thing.

That is kind of what representative means.

Except the represent all of their constituents. Not 10% of them


That would imply that only 10% elected him/her.
 
2013-10-14 10:59:13 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Now-a-days the representative doesn't have to guess about what the people want.


Doesn't mean that the Constituents know what they need.
 
2013-10-14 11:07:26 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I've never understood how representatives being in line with their constituency is a bad thing.

That is kind of what representative means.


Being in line with idiots is being an idiot.  Being an idiot is generally considered a bad thing.
 
2013-10-14 11:11:14 AM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Now-a-days the representative doesn't have to guess about what the people want.

Doesn't mean that the Constituents know what they need.


LOL.
 
2013-10-14 11:11:18 AM

Peter von Nostrand: Except the represent all of their constituents. Not 10% of them


I think the number is a little higher then 10% or the representatives would just ignore them.

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Doesn't mean that the Constituents know what they need.


yes the people are too stupid to rule themselves. Lets go with that. They are smart enough to be trusted with voting for the leaders of our government, but not smart enough to know about the issues. That's a very fine line to walk.
 
2013-10-14 11:12:52 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I've never understood how representatives being in line with their constituency is a bad thing.
That is kind of what representative means.


The problem is that about half their constituents have below-average intelligence.

Mentat: No, a representative is supposed to be a buffer between the mob and the levers of power. A representative represents his constituents views, but he also is supposed to temper their worst impulses.


Bingo. He is supposed to represent an advocate for the best interests of their district -- which is not necessarily the same thing as what most of the people in that district want.

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Doesn't mean that the Constituents know what they need.


See "not necessarily the same" and "about half".
 
2013-10-14 11:14:19 AM

abb3w: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I've never understood how representatives being in line with their constituency is a bad thing.
That is kind of what representative means.

The problem is that about half their constituents have below-average intelligence.

Mentat: No, a representative is supposed to be a buffer between the mob and the levers of power. A representative represents his constituents views, but he also is supposed to temper their worst impulses.

Bingo. He is supposed to represent an advocate for the best interests of their district -- which is not necessarily the same thing as what most of the people in that district want.

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Doesn't mean that the Constituents know what they need.

See "not necessarily the same" and "about half".


What sort of alternate universe do you exist in?
 
2013-10-14 11:15:16 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Peter von Nostrand: Except the represent all of their constituents. Not 10% of them

I think the number is a little higher then 10% or the representatives would just ignore them.


I think the loudest ones get the attention. Whether it is 1% or 90%.

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Doesn't mean that the Constituents know what they need.

yes the people are too stupid to rule themselves. Lets go with that. They are smart enough to be trusted with voting for the leaders of our government, but not smart enough to know about the issues. That's a very fine line to walk.


What we need in the desert is a lot different than what people in the Northeast need. In order to get what we want/need, our representative has to work with others. Compromise has to happen. It gets complicated quickly.
 
2013-10-14 11:20:19 AM

TheDumbBlonde: Peter von Nostrand: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I've never understood how representatives being in line with their constituency is a bad thing.

That is kind of what representative means.

Except the represent all of their constituents. Not 10% of them

That would imply that only 10% elected him/her.


Only if you're dumb... Oh wait, disregard
 
2013-10-14 11:21:30 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Peter von Nostrand: Except the represent all of their constituents. Not 10% of them

I think the number is a little higher then 10% or the representatives would just ignore them.

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Doesn't mean that the Constituents know what they need.

yes the people are too stupid to rule themselves. Lets go with that. They are smart enough to be trusted with voting for the leaders of our government, but not smart enough to know about the issues. That's a very fine line to walk.


15% tops
 
2013-10-14 11:21:48 AM
Don't be too proud of this Tea Party terror you've constructed. The ability to attempt to destroy Obamacare is insignificant next to the power of people who have brain stems.

Really, serious question, what is the "given" reason for the obsession with stopping Obamacare? And don't tell me that it'll cost too much. We waste more money on defense spending on shiat that we'll never even use and foreign aid that doesn't benefit us in the least than we ever will on health care for our own citizens.
 
2013-10-14 11:22:10 AM

abb3w: The problem is that about half their constituents have below-average intelligence.


good one.


abb3w: ingo. He is supposed to represent an advocate for the best interests of their district -- which is not necessarily the same thing as what most of the people in that district want.


I think it's been an interesting shift in the information age. When we got this party started we would vote for someone who had the same values as us and hopefully vote in an honest person that would hold on to the values we had. We in this case being where ever the representative is from. He would go to Washington and have to figure out what his people would want and what they need. And then try to sell his fellow representatives.
Now a days it has completely shifted. Now the representative hears or comes up with a plan and has to travel back to his district and try to sell the people that sent him to Washington. If we don't like it he (or she) gets instant feedback. So the representative doesn't have to worry about guess what we do or do not want.

I just find that interesting.
 
2013-10-14 11:24:06 AM
When I was younger it used to drive me crazy to watch the Democrats get soundly beaten by running on their most liberal ideas.

Meanwhile, the Republicans were the pragmatic ones, realizing that your platform doesn't matter at all if you can't manage to get yourself elected.

Somehow, the Democrats seemed to have learned this lesson while Republicans have gone full retard and then some.
 
2013-10-14 11:25:01 AM
The more you tighten your grip, the more voters will slip through your fingers.

/Really? No one got to this before now?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-10-14 11:27:21 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I've never understood how representatives being in line with their constituency is a bad thing.

That is kind of what representative means.


Mainly it's a problem when their constituents are bat shiat crazy.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-10-14 11:28:21 AM
The Republican party is at war with itself.

Maybe we should allow open cary in the house?
 
2013-10-14 11:29:47 AM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: When I was younger it used to drive me crazy to watch the Democrats get soundly beaten by running on their most liberal ideas.

Meanwhile, the Republicans were the pragmatic ones, realizing that your platform doesn't matter at all if you can't manage to get yourself elected.

Somehow, the Democrats seemed to have learned this lesson while Republicans have gone full retard and then some.


I think we can blame the Religious Right TM for throwing the Republicans off track. You see you can't control a woman uterus if you believe in small government. You need a big government with lots and lots of power if you want to legislate morality! And in order to get that big overreaching government you need to tax the bejebus out of people to fund it.

So now you have both parties wanting to grow government and tax us. A lose-lose if you will.
 
2013-10-14 11:33:55 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: So now you have both parties wanting to grow government and tax us. A lose-lose if you will


I don't see any particular problem with a large government and taxation, so it's not a lose-lose. The key element is  how government is applied. The idea that the size of the government and the freedom of the populace are opposing properties is a myth. We form societies because we are social animals. We form governments because societies are complex and difficult to manage.
 
2013-10-14 11:36:34 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I've never understood how representatives being in line with their constituency is a bad thing.


If we had actual proportionate representation in this country, I would agree with you.
 
2013-10-14 11:40:39 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I've never understood how representatives being in line with their constituency is a bad thing.

That is kind of what representative means.


Politics is a balance between representing your constituents interest, and leading.  The latter is convincing them that a course of action is in their best interest.  It's a politicians job to have all of the facts on an issue, which may be a level of understanding that the layperson doesn't have.  It's a balancing act.

Left to their own devices, people will always support more services, while not supporting the means to pay for them (See: California).  Were they lying when they said they wanted more stuff, or were they lying when they said they wanted lower taxes?  Or maybe, just maybe, they didn't understand that more stuff meant that they would have to pay more?

It's up to the politician to parse this and act accordingly.  Its not nearly as clear as you're making it out to be.
 
2013-10-14 11:44:41 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I think we can blame the Religious Right TM for throwing the Republicans off track.


i.imgur.com

There is something to that, but this is really just a smaller facet of the larger problem of rising debt (vs. growth) with the Cold War and the growing class inequality since the Vietnam War. The proximate issue may be the RR, but larger systemic issues are at the core.
 
2013-10-14 11:45:12 AM

TheDumbBlonde: What sort of alternate universe do you exist in?


One where math works, and where the Federalist Papers expressed a desire for the Representatives to be open to merit of all origins.
 
2013-10-14 11:47:34 AM
They're poised to screw their biggest benefactors out of billions in the coming recession/depression. That should do the party in for good.
 
2013-10-14 11:55:04 AM
FTFA: And DeMint is helping to build an impressive and apparently permanent infrastructure of fundraising organizations with the avowed goal of displacing the GOP's traditional business backers. The goal, as Needham put it, is "to take on cronyism and the way K Street [lobbyists] run this town."  But they should expect some push-back. Some of those K Street Republican lobbyists told me last week they were already organizing to support endangered incumbents, including McConnell, and plan to do some "primarying" of their own, funding moderate GOP challengers to several tea party members of the House, including two Michigan Republicans, Justin Amash and Kerry Bentivolio.

i.imgur.com

The more this goes on, the more I'm reminded of 9/11. The reactionary Qaedans gripe with the U.S. was mostly peripheral to the larger issue of wanting to be taken seriously as an alternative to the neocolonial cronyism of the ruling class in Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and other similar countries. They pulled off that attack to bolster their populist street cred there. The reactionary TeaBaggers want to pull off this default to show the right side of the U.S. political spectrum that they are a credible and powerful alternative to the plutocratic cronyism of the big business lobby. They are pulling off this attack to show their populist street cred here.
 
2013-10-14 11:59:55 AM

unyon: Politics is a balance between representing your constituents interest, and leading. The latter is convincing them that a course of action is in their best interest. It's a politicians job to have all of the facts on an issue, which may be a level of understanding that the layperson doesn't have. It's a balancing act.


I think that is darn near what I said. But due to tech increases in both travel and communications the politicians job of sell has moved to having to sell his people more than trying to sell his fellow members of Congress.

t3knomanser: I don't see any particular problem with a large government and taxation, so it's not a lose-lose.


And we are just going to have to agree to disagree. It's a classic battle in philosophy. And at one point in this county's history we had a party on either end of that debate. Now both parties are on the same side of the debate but for different reasons.

Now don't go hyperbole on me! Just because I feel that we currently have too much government overreach does not mean I want zero government.

Somacandra: There is something to that, but this is really just a smaller facet of the larger problem of rising debt (vs. growth) with the Cold War and the growing class inequality since the Vietnam War. The proximate issue may be the RR, but larger systemic issues are at the core.


I'm not foolish enough to believe that there is just one cause. But if Republicans had hold true, the other stuff could have been weathered.
 
2013-10-14 12:01:22 PM
FTA: The Republican Party is at war with itself. It's divided over how best to shrink the federal budget

You know what will not shrink the federal budget?  Defaulting!  Defaulting on our debts will increase the interest rate we pay on the money we borrowed.
 
2013-10-14 12:01:45 PM

TheDumbBlonde: Peter von Nostrand: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I've never understood how representatives being in line with their constituency is a bad thing.

That is kind of what representative means.

Except the represent all of their constituents. Not 10% of them

That would imply that only 10% elected him/her.


No, that would imply that the worst 10% are the biggest loudmouths.
 
2013-10-14 12:02:30 PM

Mugato: Don't be too proud of this Tea Party terror you've constructed. The ability to attempt to destroy Obamacare is insignificant next to the power of people who have brain stems.

Really, serious question, what is the "given" reason for the obsession with stopping Obamacare? And don't tell me that it'll cost too much. We waste more money on defense spending on shiat that we'll never even use and foreign aid that doesn't benefit us in the least than we ever will on health care for our own citizens.


The one I've seen most often?
It is forcing people to buy something they "can't afford and don't want" - and it is a tax -
Tea People don't want taxes - esp for things they (see above) - rinse, repeat
 
2013-10-14 12:02:40 PM
FTA The government shutdown, he insisted, was a step on "a path to electoral success."

Yes, success for Democrats though.
 
2013-10-14 12:03:11 PM
Cabal of the ultra-rich who control the Tea Party now has direct control over their representatives. Fear will keep the Republicans in line. Fear of this think tank cabal.

FTFY
 
2013-10-14 12:04:21 PM

Diogenes: Hehe...thinking more about my post.  Jim's got to navigate between K Street and C Street.

I hope the cliffs smash him.


Or a multiheaded beast seizes him with several mouths and rends him asunder.
 
2013-10-14 12:04:35 PM
I have a bad feeling about this...
 
2013-10-14 12:06:20 PM

Nabb1: The more you tighten your grip, the more voters will slip through your fingers.

/Really? No one got to this before now?


These guys get it

www.recordsale.de
 
2013-10-14 12:08:15 PM
Somacandra:

The more this goes on, the more I'm reminded of 9/11. The reactionary Qaedans gripe with the U.S. was mostly peripheral to the larger issue of wanting to be taken seriously as an alternative to the neocolonial cronyism of the ruling class in Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and other similar countries. They pulled off that attack to bolster their populist street cred there. The reactionary TeaBaggers want to pull off this default to show the right side of the U.S. political spectrum that they are a credible and powerful alternative to the plutocratic cronyism of the big business lobby. They are pulling off this attack to show their populist street cred here.

Except that they are not an alternative to the plutocratic cronyism of the big business lobby, they are the puppets of that lobby. Most of them, anyway.

There are a few who simply want very little federal government, even to the point of not having Social Security and such. Those people are simply delusional, they want everything down to the level of 'do it yourself'. No money for local, state, or federal government. So some kind of anarchy I suppose where roads are built by what exactly? These people simply didn't think their sh*t through.

The vast, vast majority of them are just fanatics or hypocrites with no idea about what it takes to keep the country functioning, to feed and clothe the elderly and the underprivileged, to keep roads functioning, to keep food safe, to monitor and prevent diseases, and so on. Many of them are just plain old racists and authoritarians who want to see the world burn without understanding what that actually means.
 
2013-10-14 12:08:35 PM
farm3.staticflickr.com

/hot
 
2013-10-14 12:09:15 PM

parasol: The one I've seen most often?
It is forcing people to buy something they "can't afford and don't want" - and it is a tax -
Tea People don't want taxes - esp for things they (see above) - rinse, repeat


Right because there are people in their right mind who think they are immortal and will never need health insurance and also don't care about their precious tax dollars going to people who get free health care through the ER and other means.

Or it could be just "fark you, I got mine",
 
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