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(CNN)   CNN publishes editorial saying Americans are too dumb. Let's focus on the important parts of that. CNN. Thinks Americans. Are dumb. Yes, that CNN   (cnn.com) divider line 181
    More: Ironic, CNN, Gay Journalists Association, Americans, Organisation for Economic Co-operation, LZ Granderson, U.S. adults, National Association of Black Journalists, numeracy  
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6290 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Oct 2013 at 11:38 AM (41 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



181 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-10-14 10:31:17 AM
Instead of stating that Americans are dumb, they should simply recognize that fact and try to capitalize on it....you know, like Fox News.
 
2013-10-14 10:52:33 AM
he's right.
 
2013-10-14 11:22:34 AM

FlashHarry: he's right.


Agreed.... when Jimmy Kimmel is going on the streets and "tricking" people into picking which between "Obamacare" and "The Affordable Care Act", it isn't something to just "laugh" at, as this article also states (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bs-ed-horsey-obamacare -2 0131008,0,6137479.story ).... "Mr. Kimmel's stunt illustrates a problem at the core of the argument over health care and most other contentious issues in this country: Huge numbers of voters are simply ignorant. "
 
2013-10-14 11:31:37 AM
People in general are pretty ignorant. It amazes me that society is as cohesive as it is.

Then again, I have stopped trying to correct people or challenge their worldviews. I have decided that being right (generally in the area of scientifically knowable things) is not as important as having friends.
 
2013-10-14 11:41:06 AM
Both sides are dumb, so vote Camacho.
 
2013-10-14 11:42:15 AM
Potatoe.
 
2013-10-14 11:42:21 AM
Well they would be onto something if not for a very large and well funded campaign of misinformation designed to produce these exact results.
 
2013-10-14 11:43:37 AM
s2.buzzfeed.com

And here are the thoughts of the typical Obama supporters:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoseyTAPBjM">http://www.youtube.com/w atch?v=IoseyTAPBjM
 
2013-10-14 11:44:21 AM
I thought it was a pretty good article subby, well written too.
 
2013-10-14 11:44:38 AM
Widespread ignorance has been a standard part of civilization since its inception.  The population cannot be held at fault for the lack of ability and talent of those who volunteer for the responsibility of governing and leading the nation.  If you're in a position of power and do not realize the nature of the that which you control then it's your fault.
 
2013-10-14 11:45:20 AM
CNN as well as other corporate media. Their bread n' butter is ratcheting up conflict regardless of risk of being disingenuous ("Sir, I'm just asking a question") and scraping the barrell for ratings crumbs. And why not? Their audience is a bunch of dullard junior high kids cheering on two other dullards fighting in the parking lot.

At least until the next pretty blonde co-ed goes missing, of course.
 
2013-10-14 11:45:32 AM

UberDave: Instead of stating that Americans are dumb, they should simply recognize that fact and try to capitalize on it....you know, like Fox News.


And DFL, GOP, RCC,

The list of panderers is kinda long.

/is any warm body a better sycophant that an educated one?
//rhetorical
 
2013-10-14 11:45:50 AM

b2theory: People in general are pretty ignorant. It amazes me that society is as cohesive as it is.

Then again, I have stopped trying to correct people or challenge their worldviews. I have decided that being right (generally in the area of scientifically knowable things) is not as important as having friends.


I've always preferred being right to being liked, which explains my low friend count. But damn if being right all the time isn't the most awesome thing ever.
 
2013-10-14 11:46:07 AM
Dammit, Nemo's Brother beat me to the pic.
 
2013-10-14 11:46:14 AM
I am so glad the Department of Education and Teachers Unions remain. Clearly, they are doing a great job.
 
2013-10-14 11:46:20 AM
article to many words
 
2013-10-14 11:46:34 AM

Cletus C.: Both sides are dumb, so vote Camacho.


He died in 2012...RIP

i83.photobucket.com
 
2013-10-14 11:47:05 AM
I only have one question:

Is Anna Nicole Smith still dead, Wolf?
 
2013-10-14 11:47:13 AM

b2theory: People in general are pretty ignorant. It amazes me that society is as cohesive as it is.

Then again, I have stopped trying to correct people or challenge their worldviews. I have decided that being right (generally in the area of scientifically knowable things) is not as important as having friends.


I recently was overwhelmed with derp and purged my facebook "friends."
I now have exactly one friend left on there, someone who genuinely was a friend way back when.

People aren't as stupid as the media thinks.
 
2013-10-14 11:47:34 AM
Ugh.  Well, at least I'm glad that he established that it was silly for Ted Cruz and Harry Reid to cite Dr. Seuss.  The article is good to criticize the US for its abandonment of education.  On the other hand, it's really stupid for it to try to make any political arguments in that context, because CNN is a severe offender in the "stupid, uninformative, irresponsible news" department.
 
2013-10-14 11:47:51 AM
Well.... They're not NOT right.

Something something broken clock something something.
 
2013-10-14 11:48:53 AM
The problem isn't that too many Americans are dumb.  The real problem is that the Dumb Americans don't believe that they're really dumb.
 
2013-10-14 11:49:12 AM

b2theory: People in general are pretty ignorant. It amazes me that society is as cohesive as it is.

Then again, I have stopped trying to correct people or challenge their worldviews. I have decided that being right (generally in the area of scientifically knowable things) is not as important as having friends.


Problem with playing stupid is that there is no Truth. No Justice. No American Way.

TRUTH
JUSTICE
THE AMERICAN WAY

remember those?

/never go pretend retard
 
2013-10-14 11:49:24 AM
Also, I agree that lack of basic education is a big problem in America.  But I think that an even worse problem is the fact that networks like CNN do not seem to think they have any obligation to inform the public.  Even this article is like "americans are stupid, according to this report, and that's a problem."  ok - how do we fix that?  Oh wait, that would require CNN wading into substantive political discourse? oh, nevermind, then.
 
2013-10-14 11:51:05 AM

b2theory: People in general are pretty ignorant. It amazes me that society is as cohesive as it is.

Then again, I have stopped trying to correct people or challenge their worldviews. I have decided that being right (generally in the area of scientifically knowable things) is not as important as having friends.


And that's another problem.

Saying stupid shiat is socially acceptable.

Correcting stupid shiat is not.
 
2013-10-14 11:51:18 AM
Anti-intellectualism seems to be on the upswing in America.  Its kind of hard to deal with somebody who is not only stupid, but is proud of the fact that they are stupid.
 
2013-10-14 11:51:18 AM
Aaaaaaaand?
 
2013-10-14 11:51:22 AM

Let's focus on the important parts of that. CNN. Thinks Americans. Are dumb. Yes, that CNN


Could be worse: it could have been USA Today.
 
2013-10-14 11:51:40 AM

dletter: FlashHarry: he's right.

Agreed.... when Jimmy Kimmel is going on the streets and "tricking" people into picking which between "Obamacare" and "The Affordable Care Act", it isn't something to just "laugh" at, as this article also states (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bs-ed-horsey-obamacare -2 0131008,0,6137479.story ).... "Mr. Kimmel's stunt illustrates a problem at the core of the argument over health care and most other contentious issues in this country: Huge numbers of voters are simply ignorant. "


I think the fact that Jimmy Kimmel has a television show, which presumably someone is watching, is more than ample proof that Americans are ignorant.
 
2013-10-14 11:52:18 AM
Someone was doing the research while reading the CNN comment boards....

Whole lot of derp going on there.
 
2013-10-14 11:52:23 AM
All true Amuricans know their intelligence is above average.
 
2013-10-14 11:52:29 AM
So CNN agrees with Ted Nugent?
 
2013-10-14 11:52:36 AM

Katolu: Cletus C.: Both sides are dumb, so vote Camacho.

He died in 2012...RIP


i261.photobucket.com
 
2013-10-14 11:54:08 AM

had98c: b2theory: People in general are pretty ignorant. It amazes me that society is as cohesive as it is.

Then again, I have stopped trying to correct people or challenge their worldviews. I have decided that being right (generally in the area of scientifically knowable things) is not as important as having friends.

I've always preferred being right to being liked, which explains my low friend count. But damn if being right all the time isn't the most awesome thing ever.


Yup. Right up until the torch-n-pitchfork brigade shows up.


Was never so nervous about that actually happening until the McPain/Failin campaign put a blah man in the white house. Such screaming. It never lets up, and the violent rhetoric keeps getting more Aztec/Moche.
 
2013-10-14 11:54:21 AM

LessO2: Katolu: Cletus C.: Both sides are dumb, so vote Camacho.

He died in 2012...RIP

[i261.photobucket.com image 320x240]


Funnied
 
2013-10-14 11:54:23 AM
No wai! America iz teh smart!

blogilates.zippykid.netdna-cdn.com
 
2013-10-14 11:54:28 AM
Americans ARE stupid and they're getting stupider and they're proud of it. The average European knows more about American politics then Americans do.

The only time you see much intellect displayed here, it gets dismissed as liberal clap trap.
 
2013-10-14 11:54:46 AM
BTW, if the media did not endorse and support fear mongering and derpifying, we would not have this problem.
Reporters know better than to repeat chit from politicians. They could call them out instead of just reinforcing the stupid and the profiteering.
But, Nnooo! Just act as a brain dead pretend stupid billboard.

NEVER go pretend stupid.
 
2013-10-14 11:55:27 AM
ts1.mm.bing.net
 
2013-10-14 11:55:37 AM
I've been in a position to help release several major products in a nationwide release. I've been told bluntly, by top marketing professionals who have a financial interest in knowing their audience acutely, that the American populace is among the least sophisticated, least intelligent of the major industrial nations.

Advertising campaigns that work effectively internationally must be dumbed down for America, because when tested, Americans are just too thick-skulled to understand them.

It's sad and depressing, but not all that surprising. There are large swaths of America filled with folks who, quite plainly, just aren't all that bright. Does anyone really expect them to be well informed on the intricacies of legislative procedure and policy?
 
2013-10-14 11:57:49 AM

SwiftFox: All true Amuricans know their intelligence is above average.


Only in Lake Wobegon.
 
2013-10-14 11:59:18 AM
CNN.  Fox News' brother from a different mother.  They get together for a make-out session behind the barn their families share.

Two news sources tied for first place in being the last news sources I'd ever look at.
 
2013-10-14 11:59:58 AM

Katolu: LessO2: Katolu: Cletus C.: Both sides are dumb, so vote Camacho.

He died in 2012...RIP

[i261.photobucket.com image 320x240]

Funnied


Good candidate then. Unlikely to go Warifying for Peace.
 
2013-10-14 12:00:29 PM

had98c: b2theory: People in general are pretty ignorant. It amazes me that society is as cohesive as it is.

Then again, I have stopped trying to correct people or challenge their worldviews. I have decided that being right (generally in the area of scientifically knowable things) is not as important as having friends.

I've always preferred being right to being liked, which explains my low friend count. But damn if being right all the time isn't the most awesome thing ever.


So much this. I don't want to be friends with stupid people.
 
2013-10-14 12:02:01 PM
Americans are ignorant, not dumb, IMHO. Dumb implies that one is not capable of learning much. Ignorance, OTOH, is a voluntary state. All the tools and all the information are available to any American who wants it. Easily accessible and readily available. But we are too lazy to take advantage of that. We are too busy watching Honey Boo-Boo to be bothered with all that complicated book learning....makes me more ashamed every day of my countrymen. I see it every day in the healthcare industry: people who are so ignorant, despite being at least semi-literate, that they are unable to care for themselves! Not just in health matters; it shows in every part of their lives that they just don't make an effort to learn how to do something--anything; they drift along through life letting things happen because it is too much work to bother to change it.

Ignorant and intellectually lazy.
 
2013-10-14 12:02:26 PM
He thinks he is Elvis Mitchell.
 
2013-10-14 12:02:47 PM

Corn_Fed: I've been in a position to help release several major products in a nationwide release. I've been told bluntly, by top marketing professionals who have a financial interest in knowing their audience acutely, that the American populace is among the least sophisticated, least intelligent of the major industrial nations.

Advertising campaigns that work effectively internationally must be dumbed down for America, because when tested, Americans are just too thick-skulled to understand them.

It's sad and depressing, but not all that surprising. There are large swaths of America filled with folks who, quite plainly, just aren't all that bright. Does anyone really expect them to be well informed on the intricacies of legislative procedure and policy?


Obviously.
Check out the humor, story line and plot in foreign ads.
USA, you get snappy music, blipverts and 2 second edits.
 
2013-10-14 12:04:42 PM

Deedeemarz: Americans are ignorant, not dumb, IMHO. Dumb implies that one is not capable of learning much. Ignorance, OTOH, is a voluntary state. All the tools and all the information are available to any American who wants it. Easily accessible and readily available. But we are too lazy to take advantage of that. We are too busy watching Honey Boo-Boo to be bothered with all that complicated book learning....makes me more ashamed every day of my countrymen. I see it every day in the healthcare industry: people who are so ignorant, despite being at least semi-literate, that they are unable to care for themselves! Not just in health matters; it shows in every part of their lives that they just don't make an effort to learn how to do something--anything; they drift along through life letting things happen because it is too much work to bother to change it.

Ignorant and intellectually lazy.


Back in the day, we called that barefoot and pregnant.
Did not know it was the base of political parties.
 
2013-10-14 12:04:44 PM

stuffy: [ts1.mm.bing.net image 289x183]


durbnpoisn.comli.com
 
2013-10-14 12:04:53 PM

impaler: b2theory: People in general are pretty ignorant. It amazes me that society is as cohesive as it is.

Then again, I have stopped trying to correct people or challenge their worldviews. I have decided that being right (generally in the area of scientifically knowable things) is not as important as having friends.

And that's another problem.

Saying stupid shiat is socially acceptable.

Correcting stupid shiat is not.


And CNN certainly f--king knows that.
 
2013-10-14 12:06:13 PM

snocone: Corn_Fed: I've been in a position to help release several major products in a nationwide release. I've been told bluntly, by top marketing professionals who have a financial interest in knowing their audience acutely, that the American populace is among the least sophisticated, least intelligent of the major industrial nations.

Advertising campaigns that work effectively internationally must be dumbed down for America, because when tested, Americans are just too thick-skulled to understand them.

It's sad and depressing, but not all that surprising. There are large swaths of America filled with folks who, quite plainly, just aren't all that bright. Does anyone really expect them to be well informed on the intricacies of legislative procedure and policy?

Obviously.
Check out the humor, story line and plot in foreign ads.
USA, you get snappy music, blipverts and 2 second edits.


See also: Duck Dynasty, Here comes Honey Boo-Boo etc...
 
2013-10-14 12:06:56 PM
About 75% of a population is the personality type that needs to be told what to do. They need an order, structure, need to know what their place is, and who is in charge.
They are not the free thinkers, the idea people. They are followers.
It's a contant battle to control this segment of society through media. They are easy to manipulate.
Wave a happy meal with a shiny toy and a catchy tune and they all turn and come running. Prop up a pretty kid, teach it to sing while modeling new clothes and everyone pulls out their wallet to buy the package.
They all do this without realizing the big picture. Fabricated reality of how great everything is

People for the most part are not dumb, per se, they are just part of the herd.
 
2013-10-14 12:07:29 PM
Well, we have a prominent political party whose standard operating procedure is to ridicule and denigrate education and educators.  What the hell did they think would happen?
 
2013-10-14 12:07:47 PM

edmo: Americans ARE stupid and they're getting stupider and they're proud of it. The average European knows more about American politics then Americans do.

The only time you see much intellect displayed here, it gets dismissed as liberal clap trap.


Yep, nothing intelligent ever gets dismissed as conservative drivel.
 
2013-10-14 12:07:51 PM
I think the issue is that so many Americans are more concerned with being right  and proving the other side wrong than being factual.

When political discourse dissolves into a shouting match over who's responsible for the hole in the ship instead of working together to fix it, both sides drown.
 
2013-10-14 12:09:40 PM
Americans are dumb in that we're willfully ignorant.
 
2013-10-14 12:09:47 PM

Pinner: About 75% of a population is the personality type that needs to be told what to do. They need an order, structure, need to know what their place is, and who is in charge.
They are not the free thinkers, the idea people. They are followers.
It's a contant battle to control this segment of society through media. They are easy to manipulate.
Wave a happy meal with a shiny toy and a catchy tune and they all turn and come running. Prop up a pretty kid, teach it to sing while modeling new clothes and everyone pulls out their wallet to buy the package.
They all do this without realizing the big picture. Fabricated reality of how great everything is

People for the most part are not dumb, per se, they are just part of the herd.


You're saying we need leaders who will all tell people to stop being dumb and start trying to be informed and think...and you think that would work?  The majority of those follower types are also lazy, hence the lack of knowledge.  If it takes effort, they don't want to do it.  They spend enough of their time putting forth effort just to stay alive.
 
2013-10-14 12:10:03 PM
Switzerland is the only other OECD country that spends more per pupil on education than we do.  And yet these are the results.


mercatus.org
 
2013-10-14 12:11:17 PM

Chummer45: Ugh.  Well, at least I'm glad that he established that it was silly for Ted Cruz and Harry Reid to cite Dr. Seuss.  The article is good to criticize the US for its abandonment of education.  On the other hand, it's really stupid for it to try to make any political arguments in that context, because CNN is a severe offender in the "stupid, uninformative, irresponsible news" department.


CNN is a business. They should sell whatever makes the most profit.

If people didn't watch it, they wouldn't cover it.
 
2013-10-14 12:12:13 PM
CNN is dumb precisely because they're "market tested" in their approach to journalism.  They dumb things down for ratings because we, the people, are dumb.  Then they're dumb.   Which makes people dumb.   Not hard to see the end-game here.
 
2013-10-14 12:13:04 PM

UberDave: Instead of stating that Americans are dumb, they should simply recognize that fact and try to capitalize on it....you know, like Fox News.


I would say they are trying to capitalize on it. Have you seen any of their programming lately? It is like a news broadcast designed for a child except kids wouldn't even watch that dreck. "Here is some human interest stories and celebrity news that no one cares about and OH LOOK, IT'S A YOUTUBE VIDEO OF A CUTE PUPPY!" I've seen more actual news on Good Morning America!

This just confirms what we all knew, CNN thinks Americans are idiots and have tailored their "news" shows accordingly. However, I never said they were doing great job of it.
 
2013-10-14 12:13:05 PM

Cataholic: Switzerland is the only other OECD country that spends more per pupil on education than we do.  And yet these are the results.


[mercatus.org image 450x348]


Stupid people don't see the need for education and they don't enforce the need for education in their homes.  Their children come to school unprepared and they don't care when their offspring come home with bad grades.  They could care less if their kids try to become educated and get angry if their kids are smarter than they are instead of being proud.
 
2013-10-14 12:13:13 PM

Katolu: snocone: Corn_Fed: I've been in a position to help release several major products in a nationwide release. I've been told bluntly, by top marketing professionals who have a financial interest in knowing their audience acutely, that the American populace is among the least sophisticated, least intelligent of the major industrial nations.

Advertising campaigns that work effectively internationally must be dumbed down for America, because when tested, Americans are just too thick-skulled to understand them.

It's sad and depressing, but not all that surprising. There are large swaths of America filled with folks who, quite plainly, just aren't all that bright. Does anyone really expect them to be well informed on the intricacies of legislative procedure and policy?

Obviously.
Check out the humor, story line and plot in foreign ads.
USA, you get snappy music, blipverts and 2 second edits.

See also: Duck Dynasty, Here comes Honey Boo-Boo etc...


I get the weirdest looks when I tell co-workers I don't watch those kind of shows...also when people come over and glance at my magazine selection. Always disappointed when there are no Glamour or National Enquirer or People around to look at.
It is sooooo sad....
I am not being snobby (thought they obviously think I am), I just don't see the point in wasting time on any of that crap when I could read or watch something that teaches me something, or helps explain the world around me.....
 
2013-10-14 12:13:30 PM
It's all fun and games until you remember that elections have consequences, and that many of those people who said they could name the president -- but not the commander in chief -- will soon be standing in a voting booth, armed with a ballot.

Well, I'm all for limiting the franchise to propertied white males above the age of 35 with no criminal record, but, no, some folks have this crazy idea that "democracy" means EVERYONE gets a vote.
 
2013-10-14 12:14:56 PM

miss diminutive: I think the issue is that so many Americans are more concerned with being right  and proving the other side wrong than being factual.

When political discourse dissolves into a shouting match over who's responsible for the hole in the ship instead of working together to fix it, both sides drown.


Oldest trick in the books.  Divide and conquer.  If we ever found a common ground we would overhaul Washington and throw all the bums out and they know it.  Isn't going to happen though.
 
2013-10-14 12:15:55 PM
FTA: "Literacy study: 1 in 7 U.S. are unable to read this story."

Damn, that's like 50%
 
2013-10-14 12:17:45 PM

Mouser: Well, I'm all for limiting the franchise to propertied white males above the age of 35 with no criminal record, but, no, some folks have this crazy idea that "democracy" means EVERYONE gets a vote.


Nobody proposed disenfranchisement (except you) so I'm not quite sure what you think your point is.
 
2013-10-14 12:18:37 PM
I do a lot of work in and around the church and my wife and I have come to the understanding that people fall into a number of categories (similar to Rand Spiro's Cognitive Flexibility theory) that basically relate to the level at which that person operates mentally.

The majority of people never get out of the 'concrete' phase, where everything is black and white, and shades of gray are so off-putting, most people consider them to be some sort of falsely taught thing.

While a majority of American finish high school - few of them ever really get out of the elementary school mindset and thus can't handle more complex topics. They also seem to lack basic empathy and compassion and see little or no need to understand something from someone else's point of view.

However, if you get these people one-on-one, you can often push them quite farther than they would move should they have a similar encounter within their group-think setting.


TL;DR - Would just be ironic in this thread, wouldn't it?
 
2013-10-14 12:18:37 PM

Explodo: Cataholic: Switzerland is the only other OECD country that spends more per pupil on education than we do.  And yet these are the results.


[mercatus.org image 450x348]

Stupid people don't see the need for education and they don't enforce the need for education in their homes.  Their children come to school unprepared and they don't care when their offspring come home with bad grades.  They could care less if their kids try to become educated and get angry if their kids are smarter than they are instead of being proud.


On top of this, we cater to the lowest common denominator. No child left behind, you know!!  Hasn't really worked out for us, has it? We are still among the least literate and most ignorant of all the industrialized nations. Pathetic. And it shows in the quality and quantity of our STEM graduates especially.
 
2013-10-14 12:19:02 PM

b2theory: People in general are pretty ignorant. It amazes me that society is as cohesive as it is.

Then again, I have stopped trying to correct people or challenge their worldviews. I have decided that being right (generally in the area of scientifically knowable things) is not as important as having friends.


I'd rather have some basic understandings of how the world around me works rather than surround myself with morans.

/2 each thar own!
 
2013-10-14 12:19:12 PM
imageshack.com

Isn't this just a tad hypocritical? First they tell us to shut our brains off when we go to the movies. Then they chastise us for not using our brains.
 
2013-10-14 12:19:24 PM

Explodo: You're saying we need leaders who will all tell people to stop being dumb and start trying to be informed and think...and you think that would work?  The majority of those follower types are also lazy, hence the lack of knowledge.  If it takes effort, they don't want to do it.  They spend enough of their time putting forth effort just to stay alive.


There's all ready too much of that. The landscape is divided. Do you listen to Fox or MSNBC? NPR or Rush Limbaugh?
Right or left? French Fries or Freedom Fries? Christian or Muslim?
Too many mouth telling people what to think. Even creates more confusion for the average joe.
Why try too hard. Just turn on the tube, grab some Buds, and a bag of chips. See if Entertainment Tonight is on after CSI. Fu(k it.

You can't force people to be objective.
 
2013-10-14 12:19:39 PM

skozlaw: Mouser: Well, I'm all for limiting the franchise to propertied white males above the age of 35 with no criminal record, but, no, some folks have this crazy idea that "democracy" means EVERYONE gets a vote.

Nobody proposed disenfranchisement (except you) so I'm not quite sure what you think your point is.


What he's saying is disenfranchisement's got electrolytes. It's what plants crave.

/I got nothin'
 
2013-10-14 12:19:53 PM
The good news, FTFA: According to the report, "individuals who score at lower levels of proficiency in literacy are more likely than those with higher proficiency to ... believe that they have little impact on the political process." Also "in most countries, individuals with lower proficiency are also more likely to have lower levels of trust in others."

So the illiterate aren't voting, it seems?
 
2013-10-14 12:20:42 PM
<itoldthatteacherladyhowtospellmurica_USA.jpg>
 
2013-10-14 12:23:03 PM
I don't see the issue. By and large, Americans are dumb. Sure, there are a lot of intelligent Americans. There are probably millions of them. But, nevertheless, most Americans are stupid as f**k and that's why everything is in the tank like it is. In fairness, though, I don't think it's limited to Americans. Hell, these fake stories, like Eagles snatching children, are a good indicator of the intelligence level of humans. A majority of people are quick to believe stuff like that (and it's far from limited to such minor things) and it's a direct reflection of their level of intelligence. Face it... If you believe stuff like that, you're an idiot at the core. I could go deeper, but I need the stupid people to understand what I'm saying... If they can read it.
 
2013-10-14 12:23:40 PM

Katolu: Cletus C.: Both sides are dumb, so vote Camacho.

He died in 2012...RIP

[i83.photobucket.com image 220x276]


The actual comacho..

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-10-14 12:24:04 PM
You know it is bad when the third grade level news thinks you are dumb
 
2013-10-14 12:25:49 PM
To fix this problem, we might have to do something, or wait for distraction, which ever makes you happy...
 
2013-10-14 12:26:58 PM

INeedAName: I do a lot of work in and around the church and my wife and I have come to the understanding that people fall into a number of categories (similar to Rand Spiro's Cognitive Flexibility theory) that basically relate to the level at which that person operates mentally.

The majority of people never get out of the 'concrete' phase, where everything is black and white, and shades of gray are so off-putting, most people consider them to be some sort of falsely taught thing.

While a majority of American finish high school - few of them ever really get out of the elementary school mindset and thus can't handle more complex topics. They also seem to lack basic empathy and compassion and see little or no need to understand something from someone else's point of view.

However, if you get these people one-on-one, you can often push them quite farther than they would move should they have a similar encounter within their group-think setting.


TL;DR - Would just be ironic in this thread, wouldn't it?


While that is probably true, it is rather pathetic and pointless, isn't it? Unless they can learn these skills for themselves and apply them properly they will always be in crisis mode, needing someone else to rescue them from their poor or nonexistent life choices. Giving them the tools to be able to react appropriately is key to enabling them to function on a level that, in any other industrialized nation, would be considered barely adequate.

Propping them up individually is no answer, and I don't mean they should be bootstrappy. These folks don't even know where their boots are....we need to clear the slate and start over with the generation of schoolkids now, giving them the skills to be able to learn on their own. We will just need to continue to babysit the rest of them until they all die out. Then maybe our nation can rejoin the 21st century.
 
2013-10-14 12:28:20 PM

FROM THIS

upload.wikimedia.org

TO THIS

consumersforpeace.org


I would say we are far too easily manipulated. And that our leaders in government and industry are far too manipulative.
 
2013-10-14 12:31:18 PM
www.normsousa.com
 
2013-10-14 12:31:51 PM

Nemo's Brother: [s2.buzzfeed.com image 500x372]

And here are the thoughts of the typical Obama supporters:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoseyTAPBjM">http://www.youtube.com/w atch?v=IoseyTAPBjM


If you are stupid enough to believe that Howard Stern looks for anything typical or average or representative of a majority and not go for the sensational then the CNN article was right about you.
 
2013-10-14 12:32:30 PM

TV's Vinnie: No wai! America iz teh smart!

[blogilates.zippykid.netdna-cdn.com image 625x450]


You can tell which Pageant Mom drank the most while pregnant!
 
2013-10-14 12:32:32 PM
Dumb? Or just interested in dumb things.
 
2013-10-14 12:36:36 PM

TheShavingofOccam123: FROM THIS[upload.wikimedia.org image 600x400]TO THIS[consumersforpeace.org image 363x350]
I would say we are far too easily manipulated. And that our leaders in government and industry are far too manipulative.


Yep.

Everyone who supported the Iraq War during the run-up to war in 2002 and 2003 should realize how easily they can be manipulated. Most won't admit today that they supported it then. But it was 90% of America who were successfully duped.

The only advice I can give is: turn off your television. It exists only to make you dumber.
 
2013-10-14 12:40:06 PM
Ironic tag? I think this called for a "Spot On" tag.
 
2013-10-14 12:40:11 PM

Corn_Fed: TheShavingofOccam123: FROM THIS[upload.wikimedia.org image 600x400]TO THIS[consumersforpeace.org image 363x350]
I would say we are far too easily manipulated. And that our leaders in government and industry are far too manipulative.

Yep.

Everyone who supported the Iraq War during the run-up to war in 2002 and 2003 should realize how easily they can be manipulated. Most won't admit today that they supported it then. But it was 90% of America who were successfully duped.

The only advice I can give is: turn off your television. It exists only to make you dumber.


You don't have to turn the TV off completely. Just think while you watch. Use your critical thinking skills to determine bias, profit, origin, etc. All the same skills you use to navigate modern life.

Oh wait never mind. This is America. We better just leave it at "turn off the TV" because we aren't very good at the critical thinking/media literacy skills.
 
2013-10-14 12:42:02 PM
www.bartcop.com
 
2013-10-14 12:46:03 PM
Having differences of opinion is fine if you can agree on the facts. If one side continues to ignore facts, there can't be dialog.
 
2013-10-14 12:46:10 PM
blog.chron.com
media.salon.com
www.imediaethics.org
www.imediaethics.org
dailycaller.com
24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-10-14 12:46:37 PM
We're proud to not know.  Anyone who doesn't argue a topic "Bill O'Reily scream at your opponent" style is an ivory tower elitist loser.
 
2013-10-14 12:48:08 PM
Judging from the grammar in your submission, Americans are dumb.
 
2013-10-14 12:48:42 PM

Nightjars: Anti-intellectualism seems to be on the upswing in America.  Its kind of hard to deal with somebody who is not only stupid, but is proud of the fact that they are stupid.


"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" ― Isaac Asimov
 
2013-10-14 12:51:17 PM
Dumb? I'd say easily entertained and misinformed by the Media.
 
2013-10-14 12:51:59 PM

lohphat: Nightjars: Anti-intellectualism seems to be on the upswing in America.  Its kind of hard to deal with somebody who is not only stupid, but is proud of the fact that they are stupid.

"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" ― Isaac Asimov


That quote is my screensaver. Many people have been confused by it. Sssiiiggghhh
 
2013-10-14 12:53:09 PM
www.bartcop.com
 
2013-10-14 12:56:05 PM

Cataholic: Switzerland is the only other OECD country that spends more per pupil on education than we do.  And yet these are the results.


America may spend a lot more money but when that money goes to building stadia and fancy high tech busses for the sports teams... etc instead of the class room it doesn't help much.

Having attended school in both Europe and America I can honestly say Europe focuses a lot more on academics... in America the school revolves around the "foot"ball team and education is an annoying side effect of school.


Let's not forget homework. In Europe teachers teach. In America they grade homework and assign more homework so that your parent have to do the actual teaching.

American schools don't need more funding... they need to dump the sports as a primary focus... concentrate on education and get teachers to teach... not just be homework graders.
 
2013-10-14 12:56:43 PM
The author is a dreaded lezbian or something.

i2.cdn.turner.com
 
2013-10-14 12:57:19 PM
Ignorance is Bliss
 
2013-10-14 12:58:13 PM
Surprised that the stupefying effect of religion has not yet been mentioned.

Usually, as countries develop and its people become educated, they grow up and religion is left behind; but in America it is flourishing, and it's only a matter of time until a critical mass of stupidity is achieved, and the entire nation will implode into a black hole of near-total ignorance.
 
2013-10-14 12:58:57 PM

BitwiseShift: The author is a dreaded lezbian or something.


Might as well be. The majority of the articles he writes are about how white straight men are evil and how everyone should be black and gay like him.

I can try to be black... but I'm unable to be gay.
 
2013-10-14 01:00:30 PM

CleanAndPure: Cataholic: Switzerland is the only other OECD country that spends more per pupil on education than we do.  And yet these are the results.

America may spend a lot more money but when that money goes to building stadia and fancy high tech busses for the sports teams... etc instead of the class room it doesn't help much.

Having attended school in both Europe and America I can honestly say Europe focuses a lot more on academics... in America the school revolves around the "foot"ball team and education is an annoying side effect of school.


Let's not forget homework. In Europe teachers teach. In America they grade homework and assign more homework so that your parent have to do the actual teaching.

American schools don't need more funding... they need to dump the sports as a primary focus... concentrate on education and get teachers to teach... not just be homework graders.


They also need to remove gang-bangers and other felons from the public school system. There also needs to be a huge rebuilding of the foster care programs and adoption programs.  Gangs exist because of the next generation. Organized criminal activity breaks down very quickly if you prevent new members from dealing with attrition.
 
2013-10-14 01:01:35 PM
"All the dumb makes me not want to even go anywhere most of the time." -- Jeffrey Rowland
 
2013-10-14 01:02:46 PM

Pinner: About 75% of a population is the personality type that needs to be told what to do. They need an order, structure, need to know what their place is, and who is in charge.
They are not the free thinkers, the idea people. They are followers.
It's a contant battle to control this segment of society through media. They are easy to manipulate.
Wave a happy meal with a shiny toy and a catchy tune and they all turn and come running. Prop up a pretty kid, teach it to sing while modeling new clothes and everyone pulls out their wallet to buy the package.
They all do this without realizing the big picture. Fabricated reality of how great everything is

People for the most part are not dumb, per se, they are just part of the herd.


I wouldn't say that. The biggest problem is apathy. People just don't care. I mean, really care. It's easy to watch a news channel and swear at the TV, maybe biatch and moan to friends and family. Hell, the more industrious might take their grievances to web forums and post snarky pictures on Facebook but that is not really caring. A significant portion of the population don't even want to do their civic duty and vote and even if they do it is probably only every four years to vote for President.

It isn't that people are stupid or just want to be told what to do out of some innate craving for domination, they just don't care. Most people want to live their lives and pursue their hobbies and interests. The politicians know this, the corporations know this, and the media knows this and they all love it. Hell, they encourage it. It's easy to do whatever you want when nobody is paying attention.

It also doesn't help when the United States is bigger Europe. Most of our states are bigger than most of the countries in Europe. It is much easier to become engaged in National politics when you have a country that is the size of Oregon, Montana, or Virginia. In my experience there just seems to some psychological factor that the smaller the government entity is the less of a "You can't fight city hall" mentality exists. Try to affect change in the federal government, don't bother; state government there's a chance; town government, worth a try; school district, go egg the Superintendent's house.
 
2013-10-14 01:05:48 PM

CleanAndPure: Cataholic: Switzerland is the only other OECD country that spends more per pupil on education than we do.  And yet these are the results.

America may spend a lot more money but when that money goes to building stadia and fancy high tech busses for the sports teams... etc instead of the class room it doesn't help much.

Having attended school in both Europe and America I can honestly say Europe focuses a lot more on academics... in America the school revolves around the "foot"ball team and education is an annoying side effect of school.


Let's not forget homework. In Europe teachers teach. In America they grade homework and assign more homework so that your parent have to do the actual teaching.

American schools don't need more funding... they need to dump the sports as a primary focus... concentrate on education and get teachers to teach... not just be homework graders.


If I wasn't on mobile I would Smart you 😀
 
2013-10-14 01:07:01 PM
America is dumb.

When this is presumably considered the benchmark for "Smart":

LZ Granderson is a CNN contributor who writes a weekly column for CNN.com. The former Hechinger Institute fellow has had his commentary recognized by the Online News Association, the National Association of Black Journalists and the National Lesbian and Gay Journalists Association. He is a senior writer for ESPN as well as a lecturer at Northwestern University.


Yeah, you never had much of a chance
 
2013-10-14 01:07:07 PM

CleanAndPure: Cataholic: Switzerland is the only other OECD country that spends more per pupil on education than we do.  And yet these are the results.

America may spend a lot more money but when that money goes to building stadia and fancy high tech busses for the sports teams... etc instead of the class room it doesn't help much.

Having attended school in both Europe and America I can honestly say Europe focuses a lot more on academics... in America the school revolves around the "foot"ball team and education is an annoying side effect of school.


Let's not forget homework. In Europe teachers teach. In America they grade homework and assign more homework so that your parent have to do the actual teaching.

American schools don't need more funding... they need to dump the sports as a primary focus... concentrate on education and get teachers to teach... not just be homework graders.


Yeah, but those in power would rather have an ignorant population.
 
2013-10-14 01:10:45 PM
"Quit laffin'!!"
farm3.staticflickr.com
 
2013-10-14 01:10:51 PM

TheShavingofOccam123: CleanAndPure: Cataholic: Switzerland is the only other OECD country that spends more per pupil on education than we do.  And yet these are the results.

America may spend a lot more money but when that money goes to building stadia and fancy high tech busses for the sports teams... etc instead of the class room it doesn't help much.

Having attended school in both Europe and America I can honestly say Europe focuses a lot more on academics... in America the school revolves around the "foot"ball team and education is an annoying side effect of school.


Let's not forget homework. In Europe teachers teach. In America they grade homework and assign more homework so that your parent have to do the actual teaching.

American schools don't need more funding... they need to dump the sports as a primary focus... concentrate on education and get teachers to teach... not just be homework graders.

They also need to remove gang-bangers and other felons from the public school system. There also needs to be a huge rebuilding of the foster care programs and adoption programs.  Gangs exist because of the next generation. Organized criminal activity breaks down very quickly if you prevent new members from dealing with attrition.


I don't know how it works in other places, but we have special campuses for discipline cases. They don't even get one free pass for some offenses such as weapons or illegal drugs; multiple offenders for less serious offenses can go there too (fights, vandalism, etc). So that isn't as big a deal in our area, but I guess in some areas it would be more efficient to remove the nonviolent kids instead....
 
2013-10-14 01:12:36 PM
 
2013-10-14 01:17:04 PM
Is CNN racist for saying Americans are too dumb?
 
2013-10-14 01:19:45 PM
www.casa-emilia.co.uk
 
2013-10-14 01:20:33 PM

dletter: FlashHarry: he's right.

Agreed.... when Jimmy Kimmel is going on the streets and "tricking" people into picking which between "Obamacare" and "The Affordable Care Act", it isn't something to just "laugh" at, as this article also states (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bs-ed-horsey-obamacare -2 0131008,0,6137479.story ).... "Mr. Kimmel's stunt illustrates a problem at the core of the argument over health care and most other contentious issues in this country: Huge numbers of voters are simply ignorant. "


And adding to the hilarity, most if not all the Congressmen voting for and against it didn't even read the bill.   "We have to pass the bill so we can find out what's in it" in the words of one of the main proponents of the bill.  And most of these people were re-elected based on whether or not they had a D or an R after their name.  That's how farking dumb we are.
 
2013-10-14 01:22:49 PM

Mambo Bananapatch: Surprised that the stupefying effect of religion has not yet been mentioned.

Usually, as countries develop and its people become educated, they grow up and religion is left behind; but in America it is flourishing, and it's only a matter of time until a critical mass of stupidity is achieved, and the entire nation will implode into a black hole of near-total ignorance.


Yeah, except that every study around of Americans shows that religious belief and affiliation is declining.

But you're one of the "smart" ones, amirite?
 
2013-10-14 01:23:15 PM

Cataholic: Switzerland is the only other OECD country that spends more per pupil on education than we do.  And yet these are the results.


[mercatus.org image 450x348]


If you spend all your money on administration / oversight / compliance / reporting you get what we have now.  The local HS has more Principals / AP's (Assistant Principals / Counselors than you can imagine.  The overhead load or portion of the budget has more than doubled last 25 years.

We spend, but on bureaucracy, not the learning
 
2013-10-14 01:26:20 PM
The dumb doesn't necessarily bother me nearly as much as the mean-spirited hate and evil.
 
2013-10-14 01:28:16 PM
The thing is, I don't think that most people are stupid as much as they are lazy. And also selfish, which is why they put a great deal of effort into shiat they care about (like football or Facebook or watching Dancing with the Stars) and little effort into learning boring things (like boring facts about the boring government) that they don't think affect them.

They only pay attention to shiat when they HAVE to. Most adults seem to think their education ends when they graduate high school or college. And after that, most don't bother learning one more thing than they have to. Most don't have time or inclination to keep up on the stupid wonky political/govt. shiat that the majority of cable news assholes yap about. And to be fair, there's not a really good reason why they should. Who wants to ingest a constant diet of that crap? It's depressing.

So when forced to state their opinion about something they know nothing about, a lot of them, instead of answering honestly (I don't know enough to comment intelligently) offer the uninformed opinion that they get from their equally ignorant friends/family or the bullshiat "news" they watch, because they think admitting you don't know something makes you sound dumb, while offering opinions is OK, because "opinions can't be wrong."
 
2013-10-14 01:28:44 PM
growlersoftware.com
 
2013-10-14 01:29:03 PM

pxlboy: Yeah, but those in power would rather have an ignorant population.

 
2013-10-14 01:29:31 PM
The typical Farker and the point of every other Farker thread:


anticache.img8.joyreactor.com
 
2013-10-14 01:30:35 PM

The Southern Dandy: "Look at it this way...think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are stupider than that."
--George Carlin


/It goes double for 'Murica


4,4,2,10,5,3,9,3
What is the average of those 8 numbers?
Are half the numbers below that?

/George Carlin was a great troll.
 
2013-10-14 01:33:35 PM
This isn't news.  That the general populace cant be competant on ALL THINGS, has been known throughout history. It's the fundamental reason for a republic versus a democracy.

And no. It doesn't mean that we are all dumb.  Society benefits from the fact that people have different depths of knowledge about different things.

I agree that there should be a baseline level of knowledge for graduating from public schools etc.  But, on a personal level, would never judge somebody for having a different level of knowledge about a subject than myself.

What does bug me is when somebody hasn't applied themself, and therefore, has no level of knowledge or skill about anything at all.  People who party into their 30's and haven't accomplished anything.  Etc.
 
2013-10-14 01:34:17 PM

coxdebate: The problem isn't that too many Americans are dumb.  The real problem is that the Dumb Americans don't believe that they're really dumb.


Hey! We do too know we're dumb!
 
2013-10-14 01:37:10 PM

FLMountainMan: Mambo Bananapatch: Surprised that the stupefying effect of religion has not yet been mentioned.

Usually, as countries develop and its people become educated, they grow up and religion is left behind; but in America it is flourishing, and it's only a matter of time until a critical mass of stupidity is achieved, and the entire nation will implode into a black hole of near-total ignorance.

Yeah, except that every study around of Americans shows that religious belief and affiliation is declining.

But you're one of the "smart" ones, amirite?


The very existence of the Tea Party, and the disproportionate amount of influence they exert, speaks to the value of every study around.
 
2013-10-14 01:38:24 PM

Begoggle: The Southern Dandy: "Look at it this way...think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are stupider than that."
--George Carlin


/It goes double for 'Murica

4,4,2,10,5,3,9,3
What is the average of those 8 numbers?
Are half the numbers below that?

/George Carlin was a great troll.


Intelligence is a bell curve.
 
2013-10-14 01:45:18 PM

FLMountainMan: And adding to the hilarity, most if not all the Congressmen voting for and against it didn't even read the bill.   "We have to pass the bill so we can find out what's in it" in the words of one of the main proponents of the bill.  And most of these people were re-elected based on whether or not they had a D or an R after their name.  That's how farking dumb we are.


You know how I know you are one of the dumb people CNN is talking about?

You should have been tipped off that people had plenty of time to read it around week 3 of people complaining they didn't have time to read it.

Also, the quote was "we [the US House of Representatives] have to pass the [health care] bill so that you [the US Senate] can find out what's in it...."

Pelosi said today, "the outside groups...were saying 'it's about abortion,' which it never was. 'It's about 'death panels,'' which it never was..."So, that's why I was saying we have to pass a bill so we can see so that we can show you what it is and what it isn't," Pelosi continued. "It is none of these things..." "But the fact is, until you have a bill, you can't really, we can't really debunk what they're saying...."
 
2013-10-14 01:47:34 PM

Begoggle: 4,4,2,10,5,3,9,3
What is the average of those 8 numbers?
Are half the numbers below that?


The median average is 4.5.

Yes, half are below that number.
 
2013-10-14 01:48:26 PM

impaler: The median average is 4.5.

Yes, half are below that number.


Whoops. missed the 2.

Median is 4.
 
2013-10-14 01:53:21 PM

SirEattonHogg: The typical Farker and the point of every other Farker thread:


[anticache.img8.joyreactor.com image 460x359]


thanks for saving me the trouble
 
2013-10-14 01:53:29 PM

snocone: Obviously.
Check out the humor, story line and plot in foreign ads.
USA, you get snappy music, blipverts and 2 second edits.



That's probably an overgeneralization.  I don't see a lot of ads these days, but I have seen a few good foreign ones.

Here's an old French Citroen ad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QOB1uBboSQ&list=PL721E05A547B2261E&i nd ex=4

It's amusing, but it suffers from the same problem that many American car ads do.

It tells you absolutely nothing about the product, but sometimes eve American commercials inform you about the product.

The ad for the GMC Acadia for example touts its space, ease of folding seats and backup camera with cross-traffic alert.  I only use that one as an example because there's a news feed on a Roku channel that has only managed to sign up 2 advertisers and GMC is in much higher rotation so I see it a lot.

IMO, it's a dumb way to advertise, but the Roku channel needs sponsors, but no matter how many times I see it I'm not going to buy an Acadia.  I'm just not interested in buying an SUV, but if I were I would seriously consider an Acadia.  Actually, I'd research other SUVs and compare prices, space, performance, fuel economy, safety and test drive the ones I thought were good candidates.

Nonetheless, it's a reasonably intelligent commercial and I'm sure it appeals to the kind of soccer mom who has 3 kids and is concerned about safety and space and is such a bad driver that she cannot be bothered to look behind her while backing out of her nice suburban home. (There's actually a push to make such systems mandatory in all new cars in the US, you know, because think of the children)

What about beer commercials?  Well, how the hell does one sell a beer in an ad?   There's only image.  That's why beer commercials are so friggin' stupid the world over.

Here's one from Denmark for Tuborg:

http://www.youtube.com/w atch?v=qgTPYwnB6og

(sorry for the laugh track, it was the first video I found of it).  It's amusing too, but is it really "intelligent"?  No.

The point of much advertising is to make the product stick in your mind.  If you see a great ad, but can't remember what it's for 5 minutes after you saw it then the ad has failed miserably.

The Head On ad (apply directly to the forehead) was annoying as hell and I think everyone hated it, but you definitely knew what the ad was for and it probably did give many a headache, so it was successful.
 
2013-10-14 01:55:52 PM

durbnpoisn: stuffy: [ts1.mm.bing.net image 289x183]

[durbnpoisn.comli.com image 160x120]


DAMMIT!  AGAIN!! shakes two tiny fists etc
 
2013-10-14 01:56:06 PM
I'm in college for advanced science degrees.  Still taking "filler" courses because 1.) I like the english comp courses. And 2.) I am actually a closet fiction writer.  This leads to my point: while I am in my advanced science courses, I am surrounded by very intelligent people, most of whom are very left-leaning.  They have a good grasp of the language, and can convey their thought for projects rather well.  My english courses are populated by persons who shouldn't have gotten out of english 101, and while they can read Byron, they are mispronouncing most of the words.  The professor and I take turns correcting the students.  This culminated the other day with a student stumbling over a two-letter word.  Frightening would be the word I'd use, but most of the students couldn't spell it without their spell-checker.
   The lack of literacy in an English class is stunning, and this is a higher level of learning.  What does this say about the level of comprehension of the masses when the population seeking out a higher degree lacks such basic fundamentals?  200 words or less
 
2013-10-14 01:59:17 PM

Trance354: I'm in college for advanced science degrees.  Still taking "filler" courses because 1.) I like the english comp courses. And 2.) I am actually a closet fiction writer.  This leads to my point: while I am in my advanced science courses, I am surrounded by very intelligent people, most of whom are very left-leaning.  They have a good grasp of the language, and can convey their thought for projects rather well.  My english courses are populated by persons who shouldn't have gotten out of english 101, and while they can read Byron, they are mispronouncing most of the words.  The professor and I take turns correcting the students.  This culminated the other day with a student stumbling over a two-letter word.  Frightening would be the word I'd use, but most of the students couldn't spell it without their spell-checker.
   The lack of literacy in an English class is stunning, and this is a higher level of learning.  What does this say about the level of comprehension of the masses when the population seeking out a higher degree lacks such basic fundamentals?  200 words or less


lovecloset fiction.  The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe is a classic.
 
2013-10-14 02:08:38 PM

Explodo: Cataholic: Switzerland is the only other OECD country that spends more per pupil on education than we do.  And yet these are the results.


[mercatus.org image 450x348]

Stupid people don't see the need for education and they don't enforce the need for education in their homes.  Their children come to school unprepared and they don't care when their offspring come home with bad grades.  They could care less if their kids try to become educated and get angry if their kids are smarter than they are instead of being proud.


You've just described 2/3 of the minority households in my school district.

Our educators fight for these kids while the parents fight with these kids and all the district can do is try to find more ways to throw money at the problem.
 
2013-10-14 02:11:45 PM
paygun:   The typical Farker and the point of every other Farker thread:


[anticache.img8.joyreactor.com image 460x359]

thanks for saving me the trouble



My pleasure.
 
2013-10-14 02:17:06 PM

gfid: snocone: Obviously.
Check out the humor, story line and plot in foreign ads.
USA, you get snappy music, blipverts and 2 second edits.


That's probably an overgeneralization.  I don't see a lot of ads these days, but I have seen a few good foreign ones.

Here's an old French Citroen ad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QOB1uBboSQ&list=PL721E05A547B2261E&i nd ex=4

It's amusing, but it suffers from the same problem that many American car ads do.

It tells you absolutely nothing about the product, but sometimes eve American commercials inform you about the product.

The ad for the GMC Acadia for example touts its space, ease of folding seats and backup camera with cross-traffic alert.  I only use that one as an example because there's a news feed on a Roku channel that has only managed to sign up 2 advertisers and GMC is in much higher rotation so I see it a lot.

IMO, it's a dumb way to advertise, but the Roku channel needs sponsors, but no matter how many times I see it I'm not going to buy an Acadia.  I'm just not interested in buying an SUV, but if I were I would seriously consider an Acadia.  Actually, I'd research other SUVs and compare prices, space, performance, fuel economy, safety and test drive the ones I thought were good candidates.

Nonetheless, it's a reasonably intelligent commercial and I'm sure it appeals to the kind of soccer mom who has 3 kids and is concerned about safety and space and is such a bad driver that she cannot be bothered to look behind her while backing out of her nice suburban home. (There's actually a push to make such systems mandatory in all new cars in the US, you know, because think of the children)

What about beer commercials?  Well, how the hell does one sell a beer in an ad?   There's only image.  That's why beer commercials are so friggin' stupid the world over.

Here's one from Denmark for Tuborg:

http://www.youtube.com/w atch?v=qgTPYwnB6og

(sorry for the laugh track, it was the first video I found of it).  It's amusing ...


Have you seen the studies on negating advertising memory impact with chewing?

All of a sudden, I am looking at gum.
 
2013-10-14 02:28:43 PM

gfid: snocone: Obviously.
Check out the humor, story line and plot in foreign ads.
USA, you get snappy music, blipverts and 2 second edits.


That's probably an overgeneralization.  I don't see a lot of ads these days, but I have seen a few good foreign ones.

Here's an old French Citroen ad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QOB1uBboSQ&list=PL721E05A547B2261E&i nd ex=4

It's amusing, but it suffers from the same problem that many American car ads do.

It tells you absolutely nothing about the product, but sometimes eve American commercials inform you about the product.

The ad for the GMC Acadia for example touts its space, ease of folding seats and backup camera with cross-traffic alert.  I only use that one as an example because there's a news feed on a Roku channel that has only managed to sign up 2 advertisers and GMC is in much higher rotation so I see it a lot.

IMO, it's a dumb way to advertise, but the Roku channel needs sponsors, but no matter how many times I see it I'm not going to buy an Acadia.  I'm just not interested in buying an SUV, but if I were I would seriously consider an Acadia.  Actually, I'd research other SUVs and compare prices, space, performance, fuel economy, safety and test drive the ones I thought were good candidates.

Nonetheless, it's a reasonably intelligent commercial and I'm sure it appeals to the kind of soccer mom who has 3 kids and is concerned about safety and space and is such a bad driver that she cannot be bothered to look behind her while backing out of her nice suburban home. (There's actually a push to make such systems mandatory in all new cars in the US, you know, because think of the children)

What about beer commercials?  Well, how the hell does one sell a beer in an ad?   There's only image.  That's why beer commercials are so friggin' stupid the world over.

Here's one from Denmark for Tuborg:

http://www.youtube.com/w atch?v=qgTPYwnB6og

(sorry for the laugh track, it was the first video I found of it).  It's amusing ...


fwiw its actually a really nice suv.  inlaws have one and it drives pretty well.
 
2013-10-14 02:29:17 PM

TheShavingofOccam123: FROM THISTO THIS
I would say we are far too easily manipulated. And that our leaders in government and industry are far too manipulative.


I will venture to say that our leaders are also easily manipulated, by unscientific, illogical thinking and most easily, by money.

There are an awful lot of people with graduate degrees, even in STEM fields, who are having difficulty finding permanent fulltime work with benefits, as was once the norm in America for someone with advanced credentials. Yet we expect people to strive so hard to be educated. Education indeed should be a worthy goal unto itself, however in America, unlike many European countries, advanced education costs the individual an increasingly prohibitive sum, and must be expected to result in a more substantive payoff, i.e., a good job. This isn't happening nearly to the extent that it once did.
 
2013-10-14 02:36:44 PM

impaler: FLMountainMan: And adding to the hilarity, most if not all the Congressmen voting for and against it didn't even read the bill.   "We have to pass the bill so we can find out what's in it" in the words of one of the main proponents of the bill.  And most of these people were re-elected based on whether or not they had a D or an R after their name.  That's how farking dumb we are.

You know how I know you are one of the dumb people CNN is talking about?   Because you disagree with me on the role of government

You should have been tipped off that people had plenty of time to read it around week 3 of people complaining they didn't have time to read it.

Also, the quote was "we [the US House of Representatives] have to pass the [health care] bill so that you [the US Senate] can find out what's in it...."

Pelosi said today, "the outside groups...were saying 'it's about abortion,' which it never was. 'It's about 'death panels,'' which it never was..."So, that's why I was saying we have to pass a bill so we can see so that we can show you what it is and what it isn't," Pelosi continued. "It is none of these things..." "But the fact is, until you have a bill, you can't really, we can't really debunk what they're saying...."


Be honest with yourself.
 
2013-10-14 02:37:14 PM

coxdebate: The problem isn't that too many Americans are dumb.  The real problem is that the Dumb Americans don't believe that they're really dumb.



This is an issue that is bothering me more and more - as a non-expert in many fields, I find that it's pretty easy for me to acknowledge not knowing the ins and outs of matters related to those fields.

Like tax policy as it relates to health care costs, for example.  I read up on the relevant materials, or at least some of them, but outside of the obvious trends and issues that play into the American health care system I don't mind saying that while I have directional opinions on the issues, I don't have an exhaustive understanding of the details.

Various relatives and associates of mine, however, don't seem to realize that some issues are more complicated than can readily be grasped through metaphors and facebook posts.  Or that their random 2am rambling opinions about things they have never researched are really, truly not as valid as positions based on actual data.

How does a population of people who embrace ignorance as a badge of honor simultaneously insist that they are completely capable of debating the intricacies of global economics with people who work with statistics for a living?  It blows my mind.
 
2013-10-14 02:42:16 PM

FLMountainMan: Mambo Bananapatch: Surprised that the stupefying effect of religion has not yet been mentioned.

Usually, as countries develop and its people become educated, they grow up and religion is left behind; but in America it is flourishing, and it's only a matter of time until a critical mass of stupidity is achieved, and the entire nation will implode into a black hole of near-total ignorance.

Yeah, except that every study around of Americans shows that religious belief and affiliation is declining.

But you're one of the "smart" ones, amirite?



3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-10-14 02:42:42 PM

dletter: FlashHarry: he's right.

Agreed.... when Jimmy Kimmel is going on the streets and "tricking" people into picking which between "Obamacare" and "The Affordable Care Act", it isn't something to just "laugh" at, as this article also states (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bs-ed-horsey-obamacare -2 0131008,0,6137479.story ).... "Mr. Kimmel's stunt illustrates a problem at the core of the argument over health care and most other contentious issues in this country: Huge numbers of voters are simply ignorant. "


Largely because the "news" programs aren't providing any actual information.
 
2013-10-14 02:42:53 PM

FLMountainMan: You know how I know you are one of the dumb people CNN is talking about?   Because you disagree with me on the role of government
...
Be honest with yourself.


Wrong. You just spouted incorrect statements. That has absolutely nothing to do with what I believe the role of government to be. People had plenty of time to read the bill, as evident to how long it was drawn out. Pelosi's statement in full context has nothing to do with the incorrect way you described it.

You're lying, or at the very least repeating lies. And when corrected, you say it's just because I disagree with the role of government, as if that excuses your lying.
 
2013-10-14 02:54:04 PM

UberDave: Instead of stating that Americans are dumb, they should simply recognize that fact and try to capitalize on it....you know, like Fox News.


Just because CNN isn't partisan hackery doesn't mean it is any less dumb.

The Daily Show spends more time on "hard news" than the missing white girl channel.
 
2013-10-14 02:58:11 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-10-14 03:02:07 PM

Trance354: The professor and I take turns correcting the students.


That has to be the epitome of hyperbole.
 
2013-10-14 03:09:52 PM
"Wizard's First Rule: people are stupid... People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool... People need an enemy to feel a sense of purpose. It's easy to lead people when they have a sense of purpose. Sense of purpose is more important by far than the truth. In fact, truth has no bearing in this... People are stupid; they want to believe, so they do." -- Terry Goodkind, Wizard's First Rule

This is from a work of fiction, folks.
 
2013-10-14 03:11:15 PM

FLMountainMan: impaler: FLMountainMan: And adding to the hilarity, most if not all the Congressmen voting for and against it didn't even read the bill.   "We have to pass the bill so we can find out what's in it" in the words of one of the main proponents of the bill.  And most of these people were re-elected based on whether or not they had a D or an R after their name.  That's how farking dumb we are.

You know how I know you are one of the dumb people CNN is talking about?   Because you disagree with me on the role of government

You should have been tipped off that people had plenty of time to read it around week 3 of people complaining they didn't have time to read it.

Also, the quote was "we [the US House of Representatives] have to pass the [health care] bill so that you [the US Senate] can find out what's in it...."

Pelosi said today, "the outside groups...were saying 'it's about abortion,' which it never was. 'It's about 'death panels,'' which it never was..."So, that's why I was saying we have to pass a bill so we can see so that we can show you what it is and what it isn't," Pelosi continued. "It is none of these things..." "But the fact is, until you have a bill, you can't really, we can't really debunk what they're saying...."

Be honest with yourself.


He just cited the exact issue with the original comment, in detailed quotes - and your response is to question his motivation?  I suppose it was good of you to provide an example of the damaging impact of anti-intellectualism, right here in the thread.
 
2013-10-14 03:12:57 PM

Nightjars: Anti-intellectualism seems to be on the upswing in America.  Its kind of hard to deal with somebody who is not only stupid, but is proud of the fact that they are stupid.


This is why I have a huge issue with a good portion of America's very outspoken leaders making universities sound like a supervillain factories. When you start talking about a Harvard degree as if it's a point of shame rather than something to be proud of, there's a problem.
 
2013-10-14 03:23:15 PM

edmo: Americans ARE stupid and they're getting stupider and they're proud of it. The average European with a college education who travels (about 30 percent) knows more about American politics then Americans do.

The only time you see much intellect displayed here, it gets dismissed as liberal clap trap.


FTFY. In my experience, working-class Italians, Brits and Poles don't know anything about anything in the next BLOCK, let alone other countries.
 
2013-10-14 03:34:32 PM

impaler: impaler: The median average is 4.5.

Yes, half are below that number.

Whoops. missed the 2.

Median is 4.


The median is 4. Median is the middle number in an odd-numbered series of results, so in this case of eight results, you average the 4 and the 4. By definition, half the numbers in a series are below the median and half above. Mean is the sum of all the results divided by the number of them. 44 / 8 = 5.5. In this case, more than half the numbers are below the mean.
 
2013-10-14 03:42:42 PM

Cataholic: Switzerland is the only other OECD country that spends more per pupil on education than we do.  And yet these are the results.


[mercatus.org image 450x348]


Those numbers are very tough to compare, because a lot of what we track as education spending (reduced-price lunch, f'rinstance, and special ed) aren't tracked the same way in other countries. The "poor results" on average of American students has more to do with the fact that we test ALL of our kids (including special ed, and kids whose first language isn't English), while most countries test only their college-bound kids. I do think we spend more effort on teaching kids who require more time to learn, which probably slows down the elite kids a bit compared to European and Asian kids, but I'm OK with that; the academically elite kids will catch up once they get a year or two in college. And our universities produce superior graduates compared to Europe and Japan, where college is mostly a place for rich/smart kids to get drunk, protest and screw once they studied their asses off and won the cutthroat competition to get there.
 
2013-10-14 03:46:40 PM
 Aside from casual references to Idiocracy, no one in this thread, or even in the article, has posed the hypothesis that maybe Americans are dumb because of heritable intelligence.
 Perhaps education reform can help alleviate irresponsible and uninformed voting practices, but I fear a considerable portion of the United States electorate may be intellectually challenged to the point where education may not be effective.
 Intelligence is largely a hereditary attribute, and I imagine there are populations in America where a feedback loop of creates generations of increasingly stupid citizens.

Maybe we're dumb, because we've been selectively breeding for decreased intelligence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ
 
2013-10-14 03:48:19 PM

skozlaw: Mouser: Well, I'm all for limiting the franchise to propertied white males above the age of 35 with no criminal record, but, no, some folks have this crazy idea that "democracy" means EVERYONE gets a vote.

Nobody proposed disenfranchisement (except you) so I'm not quite sure what you think your point is.


TFA was complaining that stupid people were voting.  Since the authors seemed to think democracy was a bad idea, I just proposed a simple fix that would appeal to them.
 
2013-10-14 03:57:12 PM

CleanAndPure: Cataholic: Switzerland is the only other OECD country that spends more per pupil on education than we do.  And yet these are the results.

America may spend a lot more money but when that money goes to building stadia and fancy high tech busses for the sports teams... etc instead of the class room it doesn't help much.

Having attended school in both Europe and America I can honestly say Europe focuses a lot more on academics... in America the school revolves around the "foot"ball team and education is an annoying side effect of school.


Let's not forget homework. In Europe teachers teach. In America they grade homework and assign more homework so that your parent have to do the actual teaching.

American schools don't need more funding... they need to dump the sports as a primary focus... concentrate on education and get teachers to teach... not just be homework graders.


We're a rewards based society. Instead of dumping sports entirely, we should pool *all* of the sports money from around each state and only fund those school's sports programs which are in the top 10% of academics state wide.

The remainder of the money will be used to improve the academics in the other 90%.
 
2013-10-14 04:23:24 PM

b2theory: People in general are pretty ignorant. It amazes me that society is as cohesive as it is.

Then again, I have stopped trying to correct people or challenge their worldviews. I have decided that being right (generally in the area of scientifically knowable things) is not as important as having friends.


You sound like you're more of a blast at parties that you used to be.

Also: if you haven't, try marriage. It will cure you of your desire to be right all the time (if you are male).
 
2013-10-14 04:25:45 PM

Mouser: skozlaw: Mouser: Well, I'm all for limiting the franchise to propertied white males above the age of 35 with no criminal record, but, no, some folks have this crazy idea that "democracy" means EVERYONE gets a vote.

Nobody proposed disenfranchisement (except you) so I'm not quite sure what you think your point is.

TFA was complaining that stupid people were voting.  Since the authors seemed to think democracy was a bad idea, I just proposed a simple fix that would appeal to them.


So you're saying that you believe anyone that isn't a white male over 35 is stupid?

// A year and a half and I get to be SMRT, yay!
 
2013-10-14 04:36:38 PM

FLMountainMan: impaler: FLMountainMan: And adding to the hilarity, most if not all the Congressmen voting for and against it didn't even read the bill.   "We have to pass the bill so we can find out what's in it" in the words of one of the main proponents of the bill.  And most of these people were re-elected based on whether or not they had a D or an R after their name.  That's how farking dumb we are.

You know how I know you are one of the dumb people CNN is talking about?   Because you disagree with me on the role of government

You should have been tipped off that people had plenty of time to read it around week 3 of people complaining they didn't have time to read it.

Also, the quote was "we [the US House of Representatives] have to pass the [health care] bill so that you [the US Senate] can find out what's in it...."

Pelosi said today, "the outside groups...were saying 'it's about abortion,' which it never was. 'It's about 'death panels,'' which it never was..."So, that's why I was saying we have to pass a bill so we can see so that we can show you what it is and what it isn't," Pelosi continued. "It is none of these things..." "But the fact is, until you have a bill, you can't really, we can't really debunk what they're saying...."

Be honest with yourself.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-10-14 05:15:36 PM

Begoggle: The Southern Dandy: "Look at it this way...think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are stupider than that."
--George Carlin


/It goes double for 'Murica

4,4,2,10,5,3,9,3
What is the average of those 8 numbers?
Are half the numbers below that?

/George Carlin was a great troll.


In your example, yes. 4,4,2,3 and 3 are below 5 which is the average of those 8 numbers.

Care to try again?
 
2013-10-14 05:19:13 PM

lunkhed: [www.casa-emilia.co.uk image 631x442]


That's the northwestern shoulder of Africa, right?
 
2013-10-14 05:23:53 PM
I are not stupd!  I are teh smrt.  TEH SMRT!

SMRT!

/s-m-r-t
// I mean s-m-r-a-t
 
2013-10-14 05:27:38 PM

snocone: UberDave: Instead of stating that Americans are dumb, they should simply recognize that fact and try to capitalize on it....you know, like Fox News.

And DFL, GOP, RCC,

The list of panderers is kinda long.

/is any warm body a better sycophant that an educated one?
//rhetorical


Know how I know you're from Minnesota? Okay, I've put it in bold type, just in case.
 
2013-10-14 06:06:12 PM
True, but it's funny when a guy in dreads tells me that.
 
2013-10-14 06:11:29 PM
www.txroadrunners.com
 
2013-10-14 06:48:01 PM

Needlessly Complicated: Well.... They're not NOT right.

Something something broken clock something something.


I think it's "Even a blind squirrel is right twice a day."
 
2013-10-14 07:39:46 PM
of course were dumb. we get our news from CNN....who actually reads twitter feeds on TV...yep.
 
2013-10-14 07:58:56 PM

lunkhed: [www.casa-emilia.co.uk image 631x442]


Switzerland? That's where they cancel the Czechs?
 
2013-10-14 08:18:43 PM

UberDave: Instead of stating that Americans are dumb, they should simply recognize that fact and try to capitalize on it....you know, like Fox News.


Dammit, I came in here to say this.

/remembers a MAD Magazine page:  "You can fool some of the people all of the time.  Gentlemen, this is our target audience!"
 
2013-10-14 09:40:55 PM

Skraeling: fwiw its actually a really nice suv.  inlaws have one and it drives pretty well.


Do you work for an ad agency?

I wasn't judging that SUV itself.  I've only seen commercials.  It may well be the best SUV in the world.  I'm just saying their commercials are wasted on me because I don't want an SUV and even if I did, I would consider a wide range of options.

I suppose it affects sales though.  Some people may see that commercial and think they have to have one, or on the other end some people will see it and at least consider it as an option instead of letting some other SUV get stuck in their head as one they should buy.

Your comment does remind me of something I saw a couple of weeks ago (I can't remember where - somewhere on the internet).  At any rate, a study found that negative internet comments about something didn't affect people's opinions too much, but even 1 single positive comment influenced people a lot.

So, if Farker # 781,234,188 thinks the Acadia sucks, who cares?  He's probably an idiot anyway, but if Farker #812,131,660 says it's a great car people will listen to Farker #812,131,660.

Interesting psychology advertisrs use.

/full disclosure - I worked for an ad agency way back when and we didn't pick our clients because we thought they had a great product or service.  We took what was handed to us and sold it as best we could.  That was a long time ago, but I can see them placing a few posts here and there praising their clients while not trying to be too obvious.

Oh, did someone mention the Acadia?  Let's log in and say how great it is.  I'm not accusing you of being a shill, I'm just saying what I would do if I were still in that business.

It's an art, much like trolling.  You have to try not to be obvious about it.  You may even have to build up an online persona that people like and trust before hitting them with your propaganda,
 
2013-10-14 11:31:39 PM

edmo: Americans ARE stupid and they're getting stupider and they're proud of it. The average European knows more about American politics then Americans do.

The only time you see much intellect displayed here, it gets dismissed as liberal clap trap.


More stupid, not stupider. If you are going to call someone stupider, at least don't be more stupid than the stupid people you are calling stupider
 
2013-10-15 12:01:54 AM
Dear CNN,

You share a large portion of blame, since you're a huge part of the problem. After all, you spend 24/7 every day of the year doing your hardest to get every person watching TV to be a mindless politically aligned zombie hyped up on the latest fear-mongering you can rather than actually just doing unbiased, intelligent journalism and debate. THEN you have the nerve to call your "audience" dumb?!

Signed, Everybody

PS: People wake up and realize both parties and every faction wanting your time are all lying to you and unworthy of it.
 
2013-10-15 01:00:41 AM

DemDave: [imageshack.com image 247x167]

Isn't this just a tad hypocritical? First they tell us to shut our brains off when we go to the movies. Then they chastise us for not using our brains.


See, an intelligent man can do just that, not criticise a movie and enjoy it based on the emotion ride (or lack thereof depending on the movie), and yet can make judgements on their own without listening to one side or the other.
 
2013-10-15 02:57:23 AM

coxdebate: The problem isn't that too many Americans are dumb.  The real problem is that the Dumb Americans don't believe that they're really dumb.


The Dorwning Effect is a real problem.  Life would be much easier if ignorant and stupid people were fully aware that they were ignorant and stupid.

Or at the very least, a lot different, anyway.
 
2013-10-15 04:37:08 AM
The OECD just conducted a 2 year study of what the whole world already knew, Americans are dumb as dirt.
 
2013-10-15 05:04:44 AM

had98c: b2theory: People in general are pretty ignorant. It amazes me that society is as cohesive as it is.

Then again, I have stopped trying to correct people or challenge their worldviews. I have decided that being right (generally in the area of scientifically knowable things) is not as important as having friends.

I've always preferred being right to being liked, which explains my low friend count. But damn if being right all the time isn't the most awesome thing ever.


It's cute how everyone firmly believes that they're the smart ones, and everyone else is ignorant.
 
2013-10-15 09:10:57 AM
If you read the posting to their news stories you would know 'dumb' is being polite.
 
2013-10-15 09:11:55 AM

MadAzza: had98c: b2theory: People in general are pretty ignorant. It amazes me that society is as cohesive as it is.

Then again, I have stopped trying to correct people or challenge their worldviews. I have decided that being right (generally in the area of scientifically knowable things) is not as important as having friends.

I've always preferred being right to being liked, which explains my low friend count. But damn if being right all the time isn't the most awesome thing ever.

It's cute how everyone firmly believes that they're the smart ones, and everyone else is ignorant.


Well, when you can actually support your intelligence buy basing it upon facts and not imaginary unsupported opinions, then yes. We are.
 
2013-10-15 11:33:37 AM
You can't buy intelligence.
 
2013-10-15 12:10:48 PM

headstone: You can't buy intelligence.


No, but it can be and is sold.
Buyer Beware.
 
2013-10-15 10:06:42 PM
This isn't a typical CNN reporter, but an Op/Ed writer who appears to eschew the typical print media's unwritten rule about keeping their articles at a seventh grade reading level.

Actually, that reading level is the one pointed out to my English class more years ago than I care to admit. The standard's probably far lower, now, but the point is, the print media has had this low opinion of it's readers for decades - the only difference is: now they have statistical proof. If you think they're wrong, try reading the comments attached to news stories (not here, of course, but to the actual stories through their various outlets) or reading comments on Facebook. Now, compare that to samples from our founding fathers. Now, try not to cry in frustration, when you realize that many of our future leaders must be chosen from this group of flaming, grammar challenged malcontents who are incapable of even spelling out an entire sentence.

In a world where ignorance is bliss, knowledge can be pure torture...so I can commiserate with this author, despite his questionable choice of where to display his commentary
 
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