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(CNN)   China, Japan, Saudi Arabia, Germany and Singapore: Raise the debt ceiling NOW, a default by the United States would have a profound effect on our economies. This GOP scheme is going to tank the dollar as the world reserve currency   (money.cnn.com) divider line 521
    More: Interesting, United States, Saudi Arabia, Japan, Singapore, Americanize, action alert, Christine Lagarde, reserve currency  
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6846 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Oct 2013 at 9:16 AM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-14 01:42:10 PM

jst3p: DubtodaIll: That cuts two ways as the Dems are more of the line that we can have everything we want and we can have it now and all we need is public opinion in our favor, no need to actually have the resources in place to make it happen.

As opposed to the GoP, who expanded Medicare (unfunded) to get Bush re-elected and launched two unfunded wars while cutting taxes.

The dems are "tax and spend" today's GoP is "don't tax but spend anyway!" I agree the Dems are spend happy but the GoP's plan is even scarier. It is telling that deficits and spending are only an issue when they aren't in the White House. I am not saying they aren't problems that need to be addressed, but their concern seems a little disingenuous and convenient to me,


Well of course it's convenient, it's politics!  The duty of the minority is always to tell the majority what it actually should be doing however the majority will always be attempting to do what it wants to do, which is rarely in the actual national interest.  That's the idea behind the two-party system at least.  What we've got here is something else entirely.  It's sophism, not politics, and it has been allowed to reach this point because of the pervasive nature of media these days.  The electorate doesn't have time to think and digest about what's good because before they come to a reasoned solution or judgement there's a new sound bite to attempt to comprehend or whatever.
 
2013-10-14 01:42:44 PM

HeadLever: jst3p: It is telling that deficits and spending are only an issue when they aren't in the White House.

Not necesssarily.  Deficits are managable if kept small.


During prosperous times (which was most of Bush's presidency) we are supposed to pay down our debts so we can be prepared for the next crash, that is, in my opinion, the biggest domestic failure (with PATRIOT being a close second) of our government during Bush's administration. And to be clear, I am not putting all the blame on Bush or the GoP.
 
2013-10-14 01:42:50 PM

LavenderWolf: Visionmn2: AeAe: Nabb1: This is just insane.

The farking GOP, man.  Bunch of assholes.

Yeah, because the liberals have no responsibility in this and the GOP voted 15 trillion dollars in debt. Wake up fool. Sure if the dems said "ok, Obamacare is gone and we will cut our bs programs" this too would be over.

Yeah, no.

That's not how two equal sides work. The debate on Obamacare is OVER. The GOP LOST. It is the law of the land. You know how you can't shoot someone in the face for no reason, because there are laws against that? Because that's what Obamacare is now. The f*cking law. The supreme court - the ultimate arbiters, as defined IN the constitution, of what the constitution means - have ruled it constitutional. All challenges against it have failed.

What the GOP is doing right now is taking a hostage to get what it couldn't get through any legal channels.

You don't blame the victim for pissing off the madman with a gun. The blame goes to the madman with a gun.


No, I blame the idiots that buy into this crappy theatre.
 
2013-10-14 01:43:41 PM

LavenderWolf: City dwellers don't hate rural dwellers. Period. When people talk about "Fly-Over Country" they mean that because there's nothing f*cking there, it's not a personal insult.


Really? How many examples must I give of what's here (aside from all the major cities,) before you will admit the unspoken qualifier, "...that's worthy of our recognition," that goes with, "There's nothing there." Like I said, it's not hatred; it's condescension.
 
2013-10-14 01:44:28 PM

HeadLever: Not necesssarily. Deficits are managable if kept small. Bush's average defict over his term (even including 2009) is about 350 to 400 billion. Deficits during 2008 and past are a far cry from anything that small, though as you pointed out, we are finally headed in the correct dirction (at least for a while).


Bush was in a perfect position to pay down his dad's & Reagen's debt if he wanted to, with the economy propped up by people cashing out HELOCs during the real estate bubble, but instead he chose to give tax cuts where it least benefits the economy and start a couple unfunded wars.  His average deficit was only (relatively) low because it took until nearly the end of his term for all his bad policies to gestate.
 
2013-10-14 01:45:24 PM

you have pee hands: itsaidwhat: Which 80's. 1980's? 1880's? 1480's. Self-reliance has never been debunked. As far as empathy, your opinion/perspective is not the yardstick of my empathy. Fark is full of words and devoid of action. No one on Fark is helping anyone that really needs help. It's not a substitute for feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless, aiding the sick, etc. So don't fool yourself into thinking that you are forwarding the great cause of humanity here by preaching the evils of success. You just look like a tool of the current administration. And don't you have a Healthcare Navigator Job to get to?

No man is an island entire of itself.  You don't seem to know what empathy is, or you'd realize that your objectivist dreck shows a lack of it.  And where, exactly, was I "preaching the evils of success"?  You should probably learn what's actually written before you worry yourself too much about my employability.


Why does it bother you so much that I don't express your accepted level of empathy? Maybe I don't see people as being as helpless as you need them to be for your existence to have value. Maybe, just maybe, your skills aren't as essential to human survival as you might hope they would be. Maybe what some people really need is the kind of success that sprouts from desperation - when the risk of failure is certain and becomes obvious by inaction.

And you are wrong. A man can be an island unto himself. A man can be a fiery volcano from which an island can grow. Ideas that first revealed seem insufferable yet when tempered by ocean and sky yield a solid surface for all that are willing to take hold, make comfort and survive.

If you don't believe me. Ask POTUS if Hawaii isn't a beautiful paradise built on fiery beginning. Someone has to be the fire before someone gets to be the rose.
 
2013-10-14 01:46:32 PM

LavenderWolf: once you've got a surplus in the budget every year (i.e. no deficit),


And just how are we going to do that?  Just because the defict is getting smaller does not mean that the trend will continue.  Remember, we are still at $750 Billion in deficit for this year.  How the hell do we get from here to a surplus? You seem to think that we are just a finger's snap away from a surplus when that could be the furthest from the truth.

That deficit alone respresents about 21% of our spending or about 27% of total tax revenues.  There is no way that a few targeted tax increases or spending cuts are going to get us there (especially if you take into account Hauser's Law).
 
2013-10-14 01:48:08 PM

HeadLever: LavenderWolf: once you've got a surplus in the budget every year (i.e. no deficit),

And just how are we going to do that?


The only solution, Dave Ramsey for President!
 
2013-10-14 01:48:30 PM

HAMMERTOE: LavenderWolf: City dwellers don't hate rural dwellers. Period. When people talk about "Fly-Over Country" they mean that because there's nothing f*cking there, it's not a personal insult.

Really? How many examples must I give of what's here (aside from all the major cities,) before you will admit the unspoken qualifier, "...that's worthy of our recognition," that goes with, "There's nothing there." Like I said, it's not hatred; it's condescension.


Jesus, why do you refuse to understand?

Urban areas have densely packed shiat. Rural areas do not. The vast majority of "fly over country" has nothing but cows and crops. Vital, to be sure, but "flyover country" is an apt descriptor.

You taking offense is unrelated to the meaning people have for the term.  You know what you don't have in rural areas? Urban areas. Guess which area urban dwellers prefer...

/You're TRYING to take offense.
//YOU are the one who hates
///City dwellers didn't do shiat to you, but you're determined to hate them without feeling like a dick, so you assume they hate you.
 
2013-10-14 01:49:29 PM

HeadLever: LavenderWolf: once you've got a surplus in the budget every year (i.e. no deficit),

And just how are we going to do that?  Just because the defict is getting smaller does not mean that the trend will continue.  Remember, we are still at $750 Billion in deficit for this year.  How the hell do we get from here to a surplus? You seem to think that we are just a finger's snap away from a surplus when that could be the furthest from the truth.

That deficit alone respresents about 21% of our spending or about 27% of total tax revenues.  There is no way that a few targeted tax increases or spending cuts are going to get us there (especially if you take into account Hauser's Law).



No, I'm acting like shutting down the government and defaulting on loans is a REALLY shiatTY SOLUTION. There are better solutions; you know, ones that solve the problem.

/Because it is
 
2013-10-14 01:51:23 PM

HAMMERTOE: UtileDysfunktion: You do realize that the use of the term "fly-over-country" is attributed to New Yorkers and Los Angelians and refers to anything between the east and west coast of the U.S., right? This includes Cleveland, Chicago, St. Louis, Denver, etc.,etc.

Yes, I understand. I was actually using the term to simplify the mind-set of metropolitan citizens toward the "country hicks" that actually supply them with food cheaply enough that they can spend their time hoarding works of art and "culture" that provide little more than local economic benefit.


And by "country hicks" actually supplying the nation's food I assume you mean the handful of multinationals that run everything agricultural? Because, *newsflash* there are probably more small urban farmers supplying the general populace with food then small independent farmers... But don't let that hinder your, "country folks can survive" fapping...please proceed.
 
2013-10-14 01:53:55 PM

jst3p: During prosperous times (which was most of Bush's presidency) we are supposed to pay down our debts so we can be prepared for the next crash, that is, in my opinion, the biggest domestic failure


I will agree with that 100%.  However, much of this is the fault of extrapolation of economic projections.  Remember the discussion back in 2001 and surplusses as far as the eye can see during the dot com boom?

Prez:  Why not give some of that back to the folks?

*Aid nudges prez a few years later*

Prez: Umm, sorry folks but those surpluses really did not materialize like we thought and that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow is now deficits as far as the eye can see.

Overall, me and you seem to be pretty much in agreement on this issue.
 
2013-10-14 01:57:47 PM

jst3p: The only solution, Dave Ramsey for President!


Lol.

Works well for personal debt.  Have my doubts if we want to apply all of that to the US, though.

That being said, the general concepts of trying to get to a place where you can earn more than you spend is a good starting point
 
2013-10-14 01:58:35 PM

Elzar: Because, *newsflash* there are probably more small urban farmers supplying the general populace with food then small independent farmers...


www.dreamwidth.org
 
2013-10-14 01:59:34 PM

LavenderWolf: No, I'm acting like shutting down the government and defaulting on loans is a REALLY shiatTY SOLUTION.


I agree with that, but it has nothing to do with my argument.  That is nothing but a deflection.

Again, what would you do to reconcile our defict?  You make it sound like it is easy, but I am thinking that you don't have a clear understanding of how big this problem really is.
 
2013-10-14 02:00:28 PM

HeadLever: LavenderWolf: No, I'm acting like shutting down the government and defaulting on loans is a REALLY shiatTY SOLUTION.

I agree with that, but it has nothing to do with my argument.  That is nothing but a deflection.

Again, what would you do to reconcile our defict?  You make it sound like it is easy, but I am thinking that you don't have a clear understanding of how big this problem really is.


Through the same methods that worked the last time we had a Democratic president. The math just has bigger numbers.
 
2013-10-14 02:05:08 PM

LavenderWolf: Visionmn2: AeAe: Nabb1: This is just insane.

The farking GOP, man.  Bunch of assholes.

Yeah, because the liberals have no responsibility in this and the GOP voted 15 trillion dollars in debt. Wake up fool. Sure if the dems said "ok, Obamacare is gone and we will cut our bs programs" this too would be over.

Yeah, no.

That's not how two equal sides work. The debate on Obamacare is OVER. The GOP LOST. It is the law of the land. You know how you can't shoot someone in the face for no reason, because there are laws against that? Because that's what Obamacare is now. The f*cking law. The supreme court - the ultimate arbiters, as defined IN the constitution, of what the constitution means - have ruled it constitutional. All challenges against it have failed.

What the GOP is doing right now is taking a hostage to get what it couldn't get through any legal channels.

You don't blame the victim for pissing off the madman with a gun. The blame goes to the madman with a gun.


And social security numbers were promised and it was law that they would not be used for identification, it was law that the funds would never be touched, it was law it was law it was law.  The point is that it was law and this is a law that needs to fall into the was category along with a bunch of other laws and taxes that have happened.  No one is claiming responsibility on either side for anything and there are not any consequences when people who are elected f*ck this country and do things that are against the law.

Dems put it in place, not the GOP.  No one wanted 14 - 17 trillion in debt, the dems spent it anyway.  GOP is simply attempting to bring balance back to what has been a free for all and the free for all is why this country is in shambles and everyone is so upset.

The madmen have shot enough people in the face and somehow by the law.  Time to end it and both sides need to feel a little pain to do it.  Blaming one side or the other remains insane, they are all to blame.

The fact is if the Dems drop Obamacare, a law that was passed with the words "Who cares what's in it, I don't even know what's in it, we just have to pass it."  the debt ceiling can be raised.
 
2013-10-14 02:05:08 PM

LavenderWolf: Through the same methods that worked the last time we had a Democratic president.


Because we had a baby boom back in the 90s and a dot com bubble to boost economic growth today, amiright?  Trying to equate today's economic situation to that of Clinton's time is a deflection at best.  Again, you have no real ideas to address our problems we currently face.  If you do, please let us know.
 
2013-10-14 02:05:50 PM

Prophet of Loss: New Babylon is falling. How do I know the US is the New Babylon?

Its all our politicians seem to be able to do there days.

/Please, try the fish


Why, hello there.

"And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies."

There certainly are some interesting parallels, I think. Maybe enough to warrant the comparison.
 
2013-10-14 02:06:31 PM

Speaker2Animals: Not everyone. We will be able to pay off our house in five years, so we got 5/2 ARM, based on a 30 year loan, at anout 2.75%, substantially below what conventional mortgages are costing. Make double payments every month and the principal drops fast. We'll never see the 2-point increase.

Do payment lapses increase the rate or is it something else?

No, what the 5/2 means is the rate is frozen for five years at which point it can adjust upwards by a maximum of two points. My meaning was that we'll have it paid off before that happens.


Do you get penalized, or get a bad credit rating, for "cheating" the lender out of those 25 years at 4.75 that they were obviously counting on when they made the loan?
 
2013-10-14 02:06:38 PM

itsaidwhat: Why does it bother you so much that I don't express your accepted level of empathy? Maybe I don't see people as being as helpless as you need them to be for your existence to have value. Maybe, just maybe, your skills aren't as essential to human survival as you might hope they would be. Maybe what some people really need is the kind of success that sprouts from desperation - when the risk of failure is certain and becomes obvious by inaction.

And you are wrong. A man can be an island unto himself. A man can be a fiery volcano from which an island can grow. Ideas that first revealed seem insufferable yet when tempered by ocean and sky yield a solid surface for all that are willing to take hold, make comfort and survive.

If you don't believe me. Ask POTUS if Hawaii isn't a beautiful paradise built on fiery beginning. Someone has to be the fire before someone gets to be the rose.

 
I know my skills aren't essential to human survival.  Most skills that most people have aren't.  That's why I'm in favor of a government that ensures a stable society.  Where are you coming up with this stuff?
 
2013-10-14 02:07:21 PM

CleanAndPure: GORDON: I remember when Bush was evil and the President was expected to work with a Congress of the other political party, not the other way around.  But, then, that was like 8 years ago.  Times are different now.

Bush IS evil. Guy caused thousands of deaths... lots of wasted money... etc etc... invented wmd charges...

Because "they wanted to kill my daddy"

Now that doesn't mean Obama is in the clear... he's not... he's a misguided ideologue that is damaging to the country... as is many of the people representing the country in DC.

Symptom of the two party system is that you end up with a bipolar government.

We need to partially bring in sortocracy to balance the country... not that it will ever happen.


In other words, both sides are bad, so vote republicandon't vote democrat.

Which is voting Republican.

Obama's wrong on a few things, specifically "too liberal" on even fewer things.  The democrats are incredibly conservative already, what more do you farking want?  We got plenty of graft and corruption on "both sides" but the thing that's repeatedly gut-punching the economy (and conveniently distracting from doing things like throwing, say, Charlie Rangel and David Vitter in the same prison cell) is all from one party, and it rhymes with "Canned, bold 'n' tarty".

George W. Bush was given everything he ever wanted with almost no compromises at all, Obama can't even get the Republicans to pass a farking budget.  It's all on red and it's been that way for years.
 
2013-10-14 02:10:36 PM

GanjSmokr: Elzar: Because, *newsflash* there are probably more small urban farmers supplying the general populace with food then small independent farmers...

[citation needed.jpg]


They're going to subsist on windowbox- grown tomatoes, I suppose.
 
2013-10-14 02:13:55 PM

HeadLever: LavenderWolf: No, I'm acting like shutting down the government and defaulting on loans is a REALLY shiatTY SOLUTION.

I agree with that, but it has nothing to do with my argument.  That is nothing but a deflection.

Again, what would you do to reconcile our defict?  You make it sound like it is easy, but I am thinking that you don't have a clear understanding of how big this problem really is.


We just declare that "wallet" that is above the value of human life at an appraised value of, say, $95 Trillion, put it in Ft Knox, and voila!
 
2013-10-14 02:15:15 PM

TheBigJerk: Obama can't even get the Republicans to pass a farking budget.


Lol
 
2013-10-14 02:18:11 PM

snocone: We just declare that "wallet" that is above the value of human life at an appraised value of, say, $95 Trillion, put it in Ft Knox, and voila!


Because that would have absolutly no impact on the dollar and our economic future.
 
2013-10-14 02:23:30 PM

HeadLever: snocone: We just declare that "wallet" that is above the value of human life at an appraised value of, say, $95 Trillion, put it in Ft Knox, and voila!

Because that would have absolutly no impact on the dollar and our economic future.


Not as long as we have the oil thingie locked down.

oil/dollar

there can be only one
 
2013-10-14 02:25:54 PM

AngryDragon: Detinwolf: The US dollar is the world's currency because of the world's (and American public's) faith in the US's ability to execute and its insane purchasing power.  .  Even Boner said that he would not let the US default, because even Boner, in his limited cognitive capacity, knows that the US economy is symbiotic with the world economy.  The world must have faith in the American dollar.

Even if we don't default, this could bring another credit downgrade.  That wouldn't be apocalyptic, but it certainly would have long lasting effects.

Think your student loan payments are high now?


Even if things were resolved now, there will probably be another downgrade.  In fact, it should be announced now that credit is downgraded specifically because the Republicans didn't learn from last time.
 
2013-10-14 02:26:06 PM

snocone: there can be only one


Actually, there can be many.  Just because you chop one head off, does not mean that there won't  be another one next episode.
 
2013-10-14 02:26:14 PM

dittybopper: It is largely a joke.  Largely.  If there were a way to screw China, Saudi Arabia, Germany, and to a lesser extent the others without damaging the American economy, I'd be more for it.


Should I even ask  why you want to screw over those countries?
 
2013-10-14 02:29:05 PM

HeadLever: jst3p: The only solution, Dave Ramsey for President!

Lol.

Works well for personal debt.  Have my doubts if we want to apply all of that to the US, though.

That being said, the general concepts of trying to get to a place where you can earn more than you spend is a good starting point


That was not serious post on my part.
 
2013-10-14 02:30:19 PM

edmo: what_now: I came in here to joke about how some people are probably stupid enough to think this would be a good thing, because they don't understand how economics work and just want to stick it to the furriners, and then I saw this:

dittybopper: China, Japan, Saudi Arabia, Germany and Singapore: Raise the debt ceiling NOW, a default by the United States would have a profound effect on our economies.

So, you're saying that there would be some positive effects, then.

Congress has aptly demonstrated time and again they don't understand economics or finance and they're proud of it. The right wing circus media encourages their followers to remain ignorant and ignore any other view as "liberal propaganda," and they do so blissfully.

/you stupid Koch brothers are going to lose a ton on this one.


The Koch brothers were willing to spend hundreds of millions to buy the last election.  If causing a world economic crash allows them to come in and pick up the pieces, even if they lose half their wealth, it's a win to them.
 
2013-10-14 02:31:42 PM

HeadLever: snocone: there can be only one

Actually, there can be many.  Just because you chop one head off, does not mean that there won't  be another one next episode.


It is the chopping that pays the bills.
 
2013-10-14 02:32:07 PM
The great thing about Atlas Smugged is it has a lot of pages that you can tear out and use to wipe your ass. But it's hard to cram any more shiat onto the pages.
 
2013-10-14 02:33:46 PM

blindio: itsaidwhat: blindio: screw it, so what if a couple thousand people die because of the shut down, at least we didn't have to raise taxes on millionaires to balance the budget.  I mean, do you have any idea how many millionaires die each year because they are taxed?  I mean, if some 40 year old is a deadbeat, his or her kids deserve to die, If they don't like it, maybe they shouldn't have decided to be born.  They can get jobs, I mean, there aren't any labor laws for 6 year old kids right?  I hear they make great miners.

People will die, rich or poor. What we are debating is life and specifically, comfort. And, how some people refuse to lift a finger to contribute to their own comfort, and instead, insisting that to be an obligation of the wealthy. Fark that notion.

If I didn't know so many immigrants that came to this country as penniless refugees, that worked two and three jobs for years to get through school, support a family here and in their home country and that now can drive Lexus and Mercedes YET STILL work two or three jobs, then I would have sympathy for the "working poor". Lazy people deserve their discomfort.

I'm not sure what is worse, your feigned outrage at people cheating the system that you seem to personally know about, the fact that you've done nothing to expose them (or you'd be bragging about it here given your clear tendencies for being a self aggrandizing loudmouth) or your sloppy stereotyping of everyone receiving public benefits as lazy.  I'm glad you feel as if you're successful, and I'm glad you know people who were able to get 3 jobs and hold them down.  I question the accuracy of that statement because you make a lot of assumptions and assertions that lack credibility, but that's great for you.  The fact is though, while there may be people out there who are cheating the system, it doesn't mean those who aren't deserve to be cut off.  You don't close the highway because of a few speeders, you put law enforcement on the roads with the tools to detect and catch speeders.

The fact remains that there are people who will die if they lose access to their benefits, but people like you don't don't give a shiat about them as long as you can sit in your ivory tower and throw stones at "elitist liberals"

You don't have a solution because you're the problem.


Maybe you misunderstood. I'm praising those that come here with nothing but hope and determination and work their asses off (with two and three jobs) to get it all and also demonizing those that are born into the US and can only take from others.
 
2013-10-14 02:35:02 PM

blindio: itsaidwhat: blindio: screw it, so what if a couple thousand people die because of the shut down, at least we didn't have to raise taxes on millionaires to balance the budget.  I mean, do you have any idea how many millionaires die each year because they are taxed?  I mean, if some 40 year old is a deadbeat, his or her kids deserve to die, If they don't like it, maybe they shouldn't have decided to be born.  They can get jobs, I mean, there aren't any labor laws for 6 year old kids right?  I hear they make great miners.

People will die, rich or poor. What we are debating is life and specifically, comfort. And, how some people refuse to lift a finger to contribute to their own comfort, and instead, insisting that to be an obligation of the wealthy. Fark that notion.

If I didn't know so many immigrants that came to this country as penniless refugees, that worked two and three jobs for years to get through school, support a family here and in their home country and that now can drive Lexus and Mercedes YET STILL work two or three jobs, then I would have sympathy for the "working poor". Lazy people deserve their discomfort.

I'm not sure what is worse, your feigned outrage at people cheating the system that you seem to personally know about, the fact that you've done nothing to expose them (or you'd be bragging about it here given your clear tendencies for being a self aggrandizing loudmouth) or your sloppy stereotyping of everyone receiving public benefits as lazy.  I'm glad you feel as if you're successful, and I'm glad you know people who were able to get 3 jobs and hold them down.  I question the accuracy of that statement because you make a lot of assumptions and assertions that lack credibility, but that's great for you.  The fact is though, while there may be people out there who are cheating the system, it doesn't mean those who aren't deserve to be cut off.  You don't close the highway because of a few speeders, you put law enforcement on the roads with the tools to detect and catch speeders.

The fact remains that there are people who will die if they lose access to their benefits, but people like you don't don't give a shiat about them as long as you can sit in your ivory tower and throw stones at "elitist liberals"

You don't have a solution because you're the problem.


People are dying with and without benefits. Next argument, please.
 
2013-10-14 02:35:29 PM
No one, anywhere, thinks there is any actual risk of default.
No one.

Our loan payments are only 10% of what the government takes in every month.
 
2013-10-14 02:35:59 PM

HAMMERTOE: GanjSmokr: Elzar: Because, *newsflash* there are probably more small urban farmers supplying the general populace with food then small independent farmers...

[citation needed.jpg]

They're going to subsist on windowbox- grown tomatoes, I suppose.


http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42155.pdf

Small farms supply a tiny share of overall food sales (< 20%), however direct to consumer sales options (farmers markets, etc.) in the non-flyover states are much, much higher. So basically while your scorched earth policy in flyover country might work, urban centers on the coasts will be much less affected if your doomsday fantasies come true...
 
2013-10-14 02:36:39 PM

HeadLever: Overall, me and you seem to be pretty much in agreement on this issue.


True. I do want to thank you and the rest of the economics farkers. It is tough to wade through the bullshiat in the politics tab but I think fark has taught me more (and prompted me to research) about econ than the econ classes I have taken. I might go for a degree in it rather than the comp sci degree I am working on.

/I don't need the degree for employment purposes I already have an established career
 
2013-10-14 02:39:17 PM

Dwindle: No one, anywhere, thinks there is any actual risk of default.
No one.

Our loan payments are only 10% of what the government takes in every month.


Debt problem solved everybody! Sweeeeeeeeeet. Let's spend some goddamn money and put people back to work!
 
2013-10-14 02:42:27 PM

vpb: There is zero chance of a default.  I don't think he would do in until the last minute, but I am sure Obama will disregard the debt ceiling if it comes to that.

A default would violate the 14th amendment and if the minute the debt ceiling makes that inveitable it becomes unconstitutional.


It doesn't have to come to that. The fact that it's even being discussed as if it's a viable option by Republicans (who have just shown that they're more than willing to shut down the government), political theater or not, is more than enough to cause a problem for us.
 
2013-10-14 02:46:50 PM

wooden_badger: The Koch brothers were willing to spend hundreds of millions to buy the last election.  If causing a world economic crash allows them to come in and pick up the pieces, even if they lose half their wealth, it's a win to them.


The Koch brothers are also against this shutdown.There is no one driving the Tea Party bus. It is just a collection of people who think "The opposite of progress is Congress!" is a serious policy position and not a fun little joke.
 
2013-10-14 02:54:02 PM
Just increase the credit card limit, again. Brilliant.
 
2013-10-14 03:02:47 PM

Thunderpipes: Just increase the credit card limit, again. Brilliant.


Bad analogy is bad.
 
2013-10-14 03:04:01 PM

odinsposse: wooden_badger: The Koch brothers were willing to spend hundreds of millions to buy the last election.  If causing a world economic crash allows them to come in and pick up the pieces, even if they lose half their wealth, it's a win to them.

The Koch brothers are also against this shutdown.There is no one driving the Tea Party bus. It is just a collection of people who think "The opposite of progress is Congress!" is a serious policy position and not a fun little joke.


From your link "The Koch brothers today distanced the firm from allied political groups lobbying to keep the government shut down unless Obamacare is defunded."

And the "Too Little, Too Late" Award goes to...envelope please...The Koch Brothers!  for funding a beast they can't control.
 
2013-10-14 03:06:20 PM

jst3p: True. I do want to thank you and the rest of the economics farkers. It is tough to wade through the bullshiat in the politics tab but I think fark has taught me more (and prompted me to research) about econ than the econ classes I have taken.


Well said. when I have 1 fark and 4 google windows open at the same time, I know I am in an economics discussion.

/Not an economist
 
2013-10-14 03:09:06 PM

Thunderpipes: Just increase the credit card limit, again. Brilliant.


Better than defaulting on said debt.  There are ways of dealing with the debt but messing with the debt ceiling should never be one of them.  There are legitimate ways to deal with this problem, but they just take time and effort.

/And, unfortunatly, cooperation
 
2013-10-14 03:09:27 PM

flondrix: Speaker2Animals: Not everyone. We will be able to pay off our house in five years, so we got 5/2 ARM, based on a 30 year loan, at anout 2.75%, substantially below what conventional mortgages are costing. Make double payments every month and the principal drops fast. We'll never see the 2-point increase.

Do payment lapses increase the rate or is it something else?

No, what the 5/2 means is the rate is frozen for five years at which point it can adjust upwards by a maximum of two points. My meaning was that we'll have it paid off before that happens.

Do you get penalized, or get a bad credit rating, for "cheating" the lender out of those 25 years at 4.75 that they were obviously counting on when they made the loan?


Definitely not. Paying off loans early gives the money back to the back to lend to someone else. We did this when we re-fi'd on our last house and since we were never late with a payment, the same bank was waiting with open arms when we wanted to do the same deal on our new house. If you think about it, it's really no different than getting a mortgage paid off early because of selling the house.
 
2013-10-14 03:09:56 PM
Why isn't anyone pissed off at SCOTUS for allowing a clearly unconstitutional law to be put into effect? It's a forced tax to subsidize the private insurance industry. We are being forced to buy something we don't want. Like being forced to buy kale on every burger just to pull it off because it supports the farking kale farmers.

They would have been better off eliminating private insurance altogether and gone straight tax and healthcare. That would have been a bit easier to swallow over this faux social healthcare.


Checks and balances right?
 
2013-10-14 03:10:15 PM

washington-babylon: Prophet of Loss: New Babylon is falling. How do I know the US is the New Babylon?

Its all our politicians seem to be able to do there days.

/Please, try the fish

Why, hello there.

"And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies."

There certainly are some interesting parallels, I think. Maybe enough to warrant the comparison.


THIS+Bearsrepeating.gif
 
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