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(CNN)   China, Japan, Saudi Arabia, Germany and Singapore: Raise the debt ceiling NOW, a default by the United States would have a profound effect on our economies. This GOP scheme is going to tank the dollar as the world reserve currency   ( money.cnn.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, United States, Saudi Arabia, Japan, Singapore, Americanize, action alert, Christine Lagarde, reserve currency  
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6875 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Oct 2013 at 9:16 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-14 08:01:54 AM  
China, Japan, Saudi Arabia, Germany and Singapore: Raise the debt ceiling NOW, a default by the United States would have a profound effect on our economies.

So, you're saying that there would be some positive effects, then.
 
2013-10-14 08:18:52 AM  
I came in here to joke about how some people are probably stupid enough to think this would be a good thing, because they don't understand how economics work and just want to stick it to the furriners, and then I saw this:

dittybopper: China, Japan, Saudi Arabia, Germany and Singapore: Raise the debt ceiling NOW, a default by the United States would have a profound effect on our economies.

So, you're saying that there would be some positive effects, then.

 
2013-10-14 08:22:18 AM  

what_now: I came in here to joke about how some people are probably stupid enough to think this would be a good thing, because they don't understand how economics work and just want to stick it to the furriners, and then I saw this:

dittybopper: China, Japan, Saudi Arabia, Germany and Singapore: Raise the debt ceiling NOW, a default by the United States would have a profound effect on our economies.

So, you're saying that there would be some positive effects, then.


One can hope he's joking, but with the jokers ascendant in the House these days, you can't be sure.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-10-14 08:26:14 AM  
There is zero chance of a default.  I don't think he would do in until the last minute, but I am sure Obama will disregard the debt ceiling if it comes to that.

A default would violate the 14th amendment and if the minute the debt ceiling makes that inveitable it becomes unconstitutional.
 
2013-10-14 08:42:42 AM  
This is just insane.
 
2013-10-14 09:17:14 AM  

Nabb1: This is just insane.


The farking GOP, man.  Bunch of assholes.
 
2013-10-14 09:19:58 AM  
I remember when Bush was evil and the President was expected to work with a Congress of the other political party, not the other way around.  But, then, that was like 8 years ago.  Times are different now.
 
2013-10-14 09:20:53 AM  
If you are blaming one side any more than the other you aren't paying attention.
 
2013-10-14 09:21:15 AM  
Guys, don't you know that global economy is just a dog whistle for world wide socialisms?
 
2013-10-14 09:21:16 AM  

vpb: There is zero chance of a default.  I don't think he would do in until the last minute, but I am sure Obama will disregard the debt ceiling if it comes to that.

A default would violate the 14th amendment and if the minute the debt ceiling makes that inveitable it becomes unconstitutional.


I see this happening too, there's no way Obama would let it slide if the GOP kicked it off. But no matter what, the economy has been tarnished and back to recession here we go.

Either 2 ways this could play out: Massive GOP backlash for letting the debt ceiling come to Obama saving it OR Congress hungrily trying to kick Obama out for trying to save the debt ceiling via impeachment hearings or just general nuisance.
 
2013-10-14 09:21:38 AM  
Phhhht. Who cares about a couple billion foreigners? We have 30 or so teabaggers who need their egos stroked.
 
2013-10-14 09:22:00 AM  
Well, uh, manifest destiny and American exceptionalism and YOU'RE NOT THE BOSS OF ME!

See, libulardos, Real Americans know how to deal with uppity foreigners. Because reasons. And Jesus.
 
2013-10-14 09:22:30 AM  
You know, an American might not try to assassinate the Congress men and women who put us in this corner because given our track record of re-electing these yahoos, we seem to be masochists. But a non-American doing the deed? I can see it. Maybe not a gun shot. But poisoning is a possibility. It will be interesting to see that if the country defaults if any of these people in Congress suddenly drop dead from mysterious heart attacks.
 
2013-10-14 09:22:31 AM  
The TP wants us to default. Are there really people that haven't figured this out yet?

Any Democrat in front of a microphone since Bachmann said they got what they wanted and are excited should have repeated that line over and over
 
2013-10-14 09:23:38 AM  

GORDON: I remember when Bush was evil and the President was expected to work with a Congress of the other political party, not the other way around.  But, then, that was like 8 years ago.  Times are different now.


Look, chucklefark, rubberstamping warrantless wiretapping is quite a bit different from tanking the world economy, so go kindly fark yourself with a cactus.
 
2013-10-14 09:23:50 AM  

Nabb1: This is just insane.


Yup. But that's the country we live in now.
 
2013-10-14 09:24:43 AM  
This could end up costing some of the people who give the GOP the most in contributions a lot of money. I think this might be what finally makes them cut the Tea Party loose, but we'll see.

The ultimate sign for me that that has happened is if Fox News starts being really critical of the teabaggers. Then you know it's over, and Ailes got the memo.
 
2013-10-14 09:24:52 AM  

Director_Mr: If you are blaming one side any more than the other you aren't paying attention.


Thanks for trying to beat GORDON for one of the stupidest comments in this thread so far.
 
2013-10-14 09:25:29 AM  

GORDON: I remember when Bush was evil and the President was expected to work with a Congress of the other political party, not the other way around.  But, then, that was like 8 years ago.  Times are different now.


Like when Bachmann said they got what they wanted or when Boehner said it in the deal that led to the sequester
 
2013-10-14 09:25:30 AM  
www.jaybusbee.com

"Seence when does mah Tea Party listern ter smelleh ferriners?"
 
2013-10-14 09:25:36 AM  
Sorry after being a democrat since Clinton - I side with the GOP over Obamacare. Honestly I could give a crap about how bad Obama has been as president,  but Obamacare really is something to fight against - forcing working people to pay for medical they cannot afford or need.
 
2013-10-14 09:26:36 AM  
Healthcare companies 5.3 billion dollars annually on lobbying, by far more than any other field including defense. No wonder everybody else can suck it.
 
2013-10-14 09:26:40 AM  

Director_Mr: If you are blaming one side any more than the other you aren't paying attention.


Bullshiat.  This is nothing more thank brinkmanship.  You what the danger is of standing on the brink on a regular basis?  Sometimes you go over.

These assholes should be in prison.
 
2013-10-14 09:27:06 AM  

GORDON: I remember when Bush was evil and the President was expected to work with a Congress of the other political party, not the other way around.  But, then, that was like 8 years ago.  Times are different now.


Bush IS evil. Guy caused thousands of deaths... lots of wasted money... etc etc... invented wmd charges...

Because "they wanted to kill my daddy"

Now that doesn't mean Obama is in the clear... he's not... he's a misguided ideologue that is damaging to the country... as is many of the people representing the country in DC.

Symptom of the two party system is that you end up with a bipolar government.

We need to partially bring in sortocracy to balance the country... not that it will ever happen.
 
2013-10-14 09:27:08 AM  
I am curious if you have positions shorting all sorts of things and you are a big teabagger either very close to or in congress could you be charged with some crime if the default actually occurs?
 
2013-10-14 09:27:09 AM  

Misconduc: Sorry after being a democrat since Clinton - I side with the GOP over Obamacare. Honestly I could give a crap about how bad Obama has been as president,  but Obamacare really is something to fight against - forcing working people to pay for medical they cannot afford or need.


Too bad all of their attempts to repeal it have failed, which means that you have to suck it up, cupcake. If I had to accept the Iraq War as fait accompli, then you have to accept Obamacare.
 
2013-10-14 09:27:17 AM  

theorellior: Well, uh, manifest destiny and American exceptionalism and 24.media.tumblr.com

See, libulardos, Real Americans know how to deal with uppity foreigners. Because reasons. And Jesus.


FTFY
 
2013-10-14 09:27:30 AM  
We default, different countries start selling off our treasury bonds, the dollar is devalued, more people see this, sell off more treasury bonds, the dollar drops more, ad infinitum. Crash. Not to mention the other countries raise our interest on loans, and Washington has to raise taxes to cover, thus taking more money out of our pockets, and effecting local economies. Just a bad deal all around.
 
2013-10-14 09:27:38 AM  
From WSJ:

"I guess that we could get lower in the polls. We're down to blood relatives and paid staffers now," said Sen. John McCain (R., Ariz.) said on CBS...
 
2013-10-14 09:28:20 AM  

AeAe: Nabb1: This is just insane.

The farking GOP, man.  Bunch of assholes.


You can say that, but the GOP and the constituents already see it in the opposite way.

In other words, from their view the Jedi are evil
 
2013-10-14 09:28:35 AM  
There is no other reserve currency.

We'll just have a much weaker one thanks to Congressional Republicans.
 
2013-10-14 09:29:17 AM  

Misconduc: Sorry after being a democrat since Clinton - I side with the GOP over Obamacare. Honestly I could give a crap about how bad Obama has been as president,  but Obamacare really is something to fight against - forcing working people to pay for medical they cannot afford or need.


It's no longer about obamacare. It's your economic future. You cannot possibly think destroying your economy and angering the entire world is worth getting rid of Obamacare, can you?
 
2013-10-14 09:29:37 AM  

NewportBarGuy: There is no other reserve currency.


Said the British seventy years ago.
 
2013-10-14 09:30:57 AM  
Gosh the farkers who green-light are not even trying a little to hide their political agenda anymore. Out of all the headlines on all the stories submitted it seems they have been hand picking the most, I hate/Republican/religion-Christians/etc... Headline lead in's they can choose. Tired, tired, boring....
 
2013-10-14 09:30:57 AM  
I'm no economist, but isn't our dollar value based and backed up by the gold in fort knox? Or am i mistaken.  Anyone?
 
2013-10-14 09:32:37 AM  

Misconduc: Sorry after being a democrat since Clinton - I side with the GOP over Obamacare. Honestly I could give a crap about how bad Obama has been as president,  but Obamacare really is something to fight against - forcing working people to pay for medical they cannot afford or need.


One thing's for sure: there are populist issues that appeal to people who generally side with one party or another, and on most of those issues (TARP, the stimulus, requiring health insurance), the common sense of the common folk is just ignorant and wrong. Everybody needs health insurance. Full stop. TARP saved the world economy from freefall, and the stimulus plan (while too small) is the reason unemployment is under 8 percent today.

Other dumb things that a LOT of people believe: the federal budget should be run like a household budget. The unemployed just aren't trying to find a job. There's a big welfare hammock that any lazy person can access.
 
2013-10-14 09:32:46 AM  
theorellior: 
Too bad all of their attempts to repeal it have failed, which means that you have to suck it up, cupcake. If I had to accept the Iraq War as fait accompli, then you have to accept Obamacare.

Furiner-like typing detected.
 
2013-10-14 09:32:48 AM  

Bit'O'Gristle: I'm no economist, but isn't our dollar value based and backed up by the gold in fort knox? Or am i mistaken.  Anyone?


Yes and it's all protected by the tears of Glen beck.
 
2013-10-14 09:33:12 AM  

Misconduc: Sorry after being a democrat since Clinton - I side with the GOP over Obamacare. Honestly I could give a crap about how bad Obama has been as president,  but Obamacare really is something to fight against - forcing working people to pay for medical they cannot afford or need.


4/10. You probably won't get too many bites.
 
2013-10-14 09:33:54 AM  

Speaker2Animals: what_now: I came in here to joke about how some people are probably stupid enough to think this would be a good thing, because they don't understand how economics work and just want to stick it to the furriners, and then I saw this:

dittybopper: China, Japan, Saudi Arabia, Germany and Singapore: Raise the debt ceiling NOW, a default by the United States would have a profound effect on our economies.

So, you're saying that there would be some positive effects, then.

One can hope he's joking, but with the jokers ascendant in the House these days, you can't be sure.


It is largely a joke.  Largely.  If there were a way to screw China, Saudi Arabia, Germany, and to a lesser extent the others without damaging the American economy, I'd be more for it.
 
2013-10-14 09:34:09 AM  

Bit'O'Gristle: I'm no economist, but isn't our dollar value based and backed up by the gold in fort knox? Or am i mistaken.  Anyone?


No.  It's backed by the full faith and credit of the US Government.  Gold is too rare and has too many industrial uses to make it worthwhile to back currency.
 
2013-10-14 09:34:09 AM  

NewportBarGuy: There is no other reserve currency.

We'll just have a much weaker one thanks to Congressional Republicans.


It's Ok. We can use Zimbabwe's currency as a reserve. They printed plenty of it. Look. With a single bill from Zimbabwe we could pay off our debt's multiple times.

i.imgur.com
/yes, the dollar will be valued about this much if we default.
www.goldonomic.com
/what paying for a happy meal will soon look like.
 
2013-10-14 09:34:21 AM  

Bit'O'Gristle: I'm no economist, but isn't our dollar value based and backed up by the gold in fort knox? Or am i mistaken.  Anyone?


no I think it's backed by the fiat factory in Sheboygan  or something...
 
2013-10-14 09:34:22 AM  

KimNorth: Gosh the farkers who green-light are not even trying a little to hide their political agenda anymore. Out of all the headlines on all the stories submitted it seems they have been hand picking the most, I hate/Republican/religion-Christians/etc... Headline lead in's they can choose. Tired, tired, boring....


God, I get so tired of this bullshiat. favorited!.
 
2013-10-14 09:34:27 AM  
HindiDiscoMonster:

img.fark.net

/GOP negotiations... (POTUS is the dog btw)


Because he's half black and half white?

i3.kym-cdn.com
 
2013-10-14 09:34:35 AM  

theorellior: NewportBarGuy: There is no other reserve currency.

Said the British seventy years ago.


They lost their entire f*cing empire. We have not. We will not. We'll just have a damaged reputation, the second largest economy, and the world's largest military. None of that will change with a breach of the debt ceiling because it is not permanent. Even if they breach it trying to get a deal, it will be reset and we will carry on.

It will just cause extremely negative reactions through the entire world financial system. But, we already did that with MBS in 2008. Different animal this, but we will retain the reserve status through it.
 
2013-10-14 09:35:31 AM  
So we are in a perfect position to negotiate, then? Do as we say or we will tank the world economy!
 
2013-10-14 09:35:52 AM  

Parthenogenetic: HindiDiscoMonster:

[img.fark.net image 500x305]

/GOP negotiations... (POTUS is the dog btw)

Because he's half black and half white?

[i3.kym-cdn.com image 150x134]


No.. that is HALF racist.
 
2013-10-14 09:36:50 AM  

Slaxl: Misconduc: Sorry after being a democrat since Clinton - I side with the GOP over Obamacare. Honestly I could give a crap about how bad Obama has been as president,  but Obamacare really is something to fight against - forcing working people to pay for medical they cannot afford or need.

It's no longer about obamacare. It's your economic future. You cannot possibly think destroying your economy and angering the entire world is worth getting rid of Obamacare, can you?


I don't think you understand slaxl.

POOR PEOPLE ARE GETTING HEALTH CARE!
POOR PEOPLE ARE GETTING THINGS!

WE CAN'T HAVE POOR PEOPLE HAVING THINGS OR OUR RICH PEOPLE THINGS ARE WORTHLESS BECAUSE THEY ARE OWNED BY POORS!
 
2013-10-14 09:37:31 AM  

Bit'O'Gristle: I'm no economist, but isn't our dollar value based and backed up by the gold in fort knox? Or am i mistaken.  Anyone?


Yes, you're mistaken. We have gold reserves, but they cover only a fraction of the value of printed currency, and a much smaller fraction of the total money supply. In much the same way that banks have deposits that cover only a fraction of their outstanding loans. It's a much better system of currency; otherwise, your money supply is limited to the amount of gold you can dig up.

We haven't been on the gold standard since 1933. Good riddance to it.
 
2013-10-14 09:37:52 AM  
I'm for default not because I think it will do any immediate good but that it will cause global reckoning.  Something needs to happen to jolt this nation out of the decades long cycle of continuing to spend more money than we have and creating a level of debt that is difficult to fathom.  Sure, things have worked fine under this system for a while, but the longer we attempt this mode of economics the worse the situation becomes.  I would rather see we work to fix our situation by normal means however I think that's far more impossible than the "impossibility" of the US defaulting on its full credit.  This Congress is so dysfunctional that it really brings in to question the validity of the system.  And maybe by some stroke of luck that dysfunction will force a situation where we're actually forced to face the consequences of the decisions that have been made in the past.
    I really don't know where I was going with any of this, but while a default would be an catastrophic situation, it may be what needs to happen now to ensure a survivable future.
 
2013-10-14 09:40:08 AM  

Director_Mr: If you are blaming one side any more than the other you aren't paying attention.


That's a load of crap.

The Dem's position is "Pass a clean bill to prevent the impending disaster"
The GOP position is "No funding until we get our other demands met too."

They are NOT equivalent. If Boehner brought a clean bill to a vote TODAY it would almost certainly pass. It is the GOP preventing that from happening.

So take your false equivalencies somewhere dumb enough to fall for it. Try freeperrville.
 
2013-10-14 09:42:00 AM  
Yeah Bitcoins! Screw that World Elitist Reserve Currency crap... Time for China to take her rightful place in the gunsights.
 
2013-10-14 09:42:03 AM  

UtileDysfunktion: From WSJ:

"I guess that we could get lower in the polls. We're down to blood relatives and paid staffers now," said Sen. John McCain (R., Ariz.) said on CBS...


He's right; after tomorrow, the ones no longer getting paid will change sides.
 
2013-10-14 09:42:32 AM  
So instead of the US losing its status in the world market gradually over the next few decades we will lose it all now. Good luck buying all your oil and other imports in euros.
 
2013-10-14 09:45:29 AM  
For Halloween, is Bohner dressing as Nero?
 
2013-10-14 09:45:55 AM  
Even if the US "defaults", who would realistically step in as a different reserve currency? Who has a more stable economy these days? Certainly not any of the countries mentioned in the headline (and that's before their economies crater right along with ours)
 
2013-10-14 09:46:06 AM  

Bit'O'Gristle: I'm no economist, but isn't our dollar value based and backed up by the gold in fort knox? Or am i mistaken.  Anyone?


Umm, our economy has been a fiat currency model since Nixon took the US off the gold standard in the 70's.
 
2013-10-14 09:46:30 AM  

Prophet of Loss: For Halloween, is Bohner dressing as Nero?


This assumes he survives through Halloween
 
2013-10-14 09:47:11 AM  
Clearly, these countries have never owned a small business.  You see, when a business has bills it needs to pay, it can either pay those bills or default on them.  The fiscally conservative way is to default on your bills.  That's how I run my small business, and why I'm voting for Ted Cruz.
 
2013-10-14 09:48:36 AM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: So instead of the US losing its status in the world market gradually over the next few decades we will lose it all now. Good luck buying all your oil and other imports in euros.


Any bets on who is going to step up to be the next reserve currency?
 
2013-10-14 09:49:02 AM  

Bit'O'Gristle: I'm no economist, but isn't our dollar value based and backed up by the gold in fort knox? Or am i mistaken.  Anyone?


The world collectively abolished the Gold standard during the Great Depression, mainly because the Great Depression was caused by the gold standard (or at least worsened to the catastrophic levels it reached)
 
2013-10-14 09:49:40 AM  

Misconduc: Sorry after being a democrat since Clinton - I side with the GOP over Obamacare. Honestly I could give a crap about how bad Obama has been as president,  but Obamacare really is something to fight against - forcing working people to pay for medical they cannot afford or need.


No, no, no. Trolling isn't just posting something patently wrong in the hopes people will correct you. You have to actually stoke the fires of outrage - maybe add a dash of racial tension or fake a persecution complex. Try implying that people who disagree with you are naively optimistic children or jobless moochers. Put some effort into it next time.

DubtodaIll: I'm for default not because I think it will do any immediate good but that it will cause global reckoning.  Something needs to happen to jolt this nation out of the decades long cycle of continuing to spend more money than we have and creating a level of debt that is difficult to fathom.  Sure, things have worked fine under this system for a while, but the longer we attempt this mode of economics the worse the situation becomes.


Plenty of perfectly stable countries have higher rates of debt-to-GDP than us (Canada, the UK, Japan, etc). The absurd hysterical fearmongering over the national debt has so far been far more harmful than the debt itself, seeing as it has resulted in us cutting government spending during a recession, the absolute worst time to do so.
 
2013-10-14 09:49:41 AM  

Director_Mr: If you are blaming one side any more than the other you aren't paying attention.


As a general policy, I would agree with you. In this specific instance, however, the blame rests squarely on the shoulders of the GOP. The GOP is throwing a hissy-fit because a bill they didn't like not only got passed, but held constitutional muster  and was protected from all of their attempts to repeal it. They are whinging children, upset that they're being expected to eat their broccoli and then go do their homework.

My general voting habits are to support third parties wherever possible (and write myself in when no suitable third party option presents itself).  However, based on the past decade, the Republican Party has put forth a compelling argument that I should vote straight-line Democrat at the Federal level. It doesn't  really matter- Pittsburgh is True Blue and won't be sending a Republican anywhere anytime soon.
 
2013-10-14 09:50:41 AM  

Lost Thought 00: Even if the US "defaults", who would realistically step in as a different reserve currency? Who has a more stable economy these days? Certainly not any of the countries mentioned in the headline (and that's before their economies crater right along with ours)


The US is the world's reserve currency because we are stable.  If we default that is no longer the case.  There will then be no compelling reason to remain the world's reserve currency.  It wouldn't be overnight but you can bet 100% that if the US defaults, the Euro or the Yuan WILL replace the dollar at some point.

This whole thing is insane.
 
2013-10-14 09:51:00 AM  

vpb: There is zero chance of a default.  I don't think he would do in until the last minute, but I am sure Obama will disregard the debt ceiling if it comes to that.

A default would violate the 14th amendment and if the minute the debt ceiling makes that inveitable it becomes unconstitutional.


The constitution is just a piece of paper written by socialists. Except the Second Amendment, which was written by Jesus.
 
2013-10-14 09:51:09 AM  

dittybopper: China, Japan, Saudi Arabia, Germany and Singapore: Raise the debt ceiling NOW, a default by the United States would have a profound effect on our economies.

So, you're saying that there would be some positive effects, then.


Depends on how you define positive...


img.fark.net

The illusion is that we've got one party that is obstinate and another that is reasonable.  One that cares only for its own glory and one that loves us and wants to save the nation and the world we support.
 The reality is both sides are self serving wenches that really don't care what happens so long as they "win".

If the world really wanted to see a solution then they'd have Putin call the white house and negotiate a settlement. They'd drag both party leaders into a room at the UN and give them a stern talking to.
This chiding is just so other leaders can score points of their own. They couldn't care less if we default.

Politics is a game for our emotions, not a method of leadership. It can't be trusted to run a bank.
To which a default would be "positive" in a sense that, as a planet, we would be forced to rethink what debt means and how it should be managed. We would stop allowing blame to cover for poor leadership skills, and stop seeing grandstanding as a symbol of strength.People would pay more attention to the fine print than the headlines.

So, yes, there might be a silver lining to this. Famines and wars aside.

/A small fire now is sometimes better than a big one later.
/altho it would be best to avoid both entirely.
 
2013-10-14 09:51:18 AM  
Meh.  This debt ceiling thing is like the boy who cried wolf... we've seen this go down to the wire before.  It's political theater, just like most of the other shiat they do.

As the saying here goes, "Wake me when..." we actually default.  Then I'll pay attention and worry again.
 
2013-10-14 09:51:33 AM  

fluffy2097: NewportBarGuy: There is no other reserve currency.

We'll just have a much weaker one thanks to Congressional Republicans.

It's Ok. We can use Zimbabwe's currency as a reserve. They printed plenty of it. Look. With a single bill from Zimbabwe we could pay off our debt's multiple times.

[i.imgur.com image 850x421]
/yes, the dollar will be valued about this much if we default.
[www.goldonomic.com image 468x351]
/what paying for a happy meal will soon look like.


Sounds like great news for me and lots of regular Americans.

I owe hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt at ridiculous interest rates.  Much of it is immune from bankruptcy (yay - education bubble!).

Bring on the inflation.  When a loaf of bread costs 100 dollars and my annual salary is 500,000k - my debts will be a drop in the bucket.
 
2013-10-14 09:51:40 AM  
The GOP WANTS this to happen. It's what they have planned for, for years. This is what they want.
 
2013-10-14 09:53:11 AM  

Mawson of the Antarctic: Either 2 ways this could play out: Massive GOP backlash for letting the debt ceiling come to Obama saving it OR Congress hungrily trying to kick Obama out for trying to save the debt ceiling via impeachment hearings or just general nuisance.

 
2013-10-14 09:53:11 AM  

AngryDragon: Euro or the Yuan WILL replace the dollar at some point.


The euro very well may not exist in a few years, and the Yuan is so directly manipulated by the Chinese Government that no one would dare touch it for a reserve currency. Maybe the Yen or the Pound. That's all I can come up with as plausible alternatives
 
2013-10-14 09:53:16 AM  
Fark_Guy_Rob: ....Bring on the inflation.  When a loaf of bread costs 100 dollars and my annual salary is 500,000k - my debts will be a drop in the bucket.

AHHAHAHHAAAAA you really think the Mitt Romneys of the world are going to raise your salary so it keeps pace with inflation?


HAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAHOHOHOHHEEEEHHEHEHHEHEEEEEEEHEHEHHOHOHHAAA
 
2013-10-14 09:53:21 AM  
New Babylon is falling. How do I know the US is the New Babylon?

Its all our politicians seem to be able to do there days.

/Please, try the fish
 
2013-10-14 09:53:37 AM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: So instead of the US losing its status in the world market gradually over the next few decades we will lose it all now. Good luck buying all your oil and other imports in euros.


Whoa - I remember the Fark Collective telling me, in no uncertain terms, that the Euro was doomed and wouldn't exist!
 
2013-10-14 09:53:48 AM  

theorellior: KimNorth: Gosh the farkers who green-light are not even trying a little to hide their political agenda anymore. Out of all the headlines on all the stories submitted it seems they have been hand picking the most, I hate/Republican/religion-Christians/etc... Headline lead in's they can choose. Tired, tired, boring....

God, I get so tired of this bullshiat. favorited!.


Aren't you the cool kid......
 
2013-10-14 09:53:57 AM  

Director_Mr: If you are blaming one side any more than the other you aren't paying attention.


That's one of the stupidest things I've ever seen on fark.
 
2013-10-14 09:54:12 AM  

KellyX: Mawson of the Antarctic: Either 2 ways this could play out: Massive GOP backlash for letting the debt ceiling come to Obama saving it OR Congress hungrily trying to kick Obama out for trying to save the debt ceiling via impeachment hearings or just general nuisance.


static.comicvine.com

/meant to include that, should of previewed =(
 
2013-10-14 09:54:16 AM  
Obama and his libtard sycophants are equally to blame by representing the do-nothing leaches of society.

I laughed when POTUS nazi'd the national parks and bank rolled his NPR media. What a joke to all of us that work for a living and don't have the time to waste gawking at a tree or a giant hole in the ground. And to the veterans regarding closed memorials - I don't need to stare at a monolith to be reminded of their sacrifice - I see that in everything that I am free and able to enjoy all around me. I and my freedom are not victim to any so-called shutdown.

When a "government shutdown" still leaves 83% of the (bottom feeding) public servants at work, then we have real problem with entitlements at the top and the bottom of society.

And to the foreigners afraid of our debt ceiling, you are welcome - to the financial shelter and stability our American enterprise has afforded you under your own years of tribunal unrest. Suck it up.
 
2013-10-14 09:54:20 AM  

way south: The reality is both sides are self serving wenches that really don't care what happens so long as they "win".


Oh fantastic, BSABSVR! I'm close to winning at Derp Bingo!
 
2013-10-14 09:55:05 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Director_Mr: If you are blaming one side any more than the other you aren't paying attention.

That's one of the stupidest things I've ever seen on fark.


Maybe he just got back from a Geico commercial ...

fitumi.co.za
 
2013-10-14 09:55:20 AM  

ghare: The GOP WANTS this to happen. It's what they have planned for, for years. This is what they want.


i.qkme.me
 
2013-10-14 09:55:58 AM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: I owe hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt at ridiculous interest rates.  Much of it is immune from bankruptcy (yay - education bubble!).

Bring on the inflation.  When a loaf of bread costs 100 dollars and my annual salary is 500,000k - my debts will be a drop in the bucket.


Good plan, but I suspect interest rates will go up to match the inflation.
 
2013-10-14 09:57:17 AM  

Slaxl: It's no longer about obamacare. It's your economic future. You cannot possibly think destroying your economy and angering the entire world is worth getting rid of Obamacare, can you?


Even more evidence that special interests have their fingers far too deeply interwoven in the U.S. government, on both sides of the political coin.

On one hand, we've got a multibillion dollar corporation (Washington Redskins) that's supposed to go to all kinds of expense to change its name because a handful of people that the name has absolutely no effect over suddenly have their panties in a manufactured wad over the name. Yet, a 2000-page travesty of a "healthcare plan" which is already offending millions and was hammered through with barely any review is supposed to stand simply because "it's the law". (If history is any  indication, so was slavery at one time.)
 
2013-10-14 09:57:57 AM  
itsaidwhat: derpderpderp


You get to vote with that brain, huh? This is why we can't have nice things.
 
2013-10-14 09:58:47 AM  

Director_Mr: If you are blaming one side any more than the other you aren't paying attention.


Let's see, one side specifically planned the shutdown over an unrelated law they already failed to scuttle. It takes the self centered ignorance of a centrist to ignore those facts and claim both sides are the same. Please stop trying to pass off your lazy stupidity as being somehow clever and informed.
 
2013-10-14 09:59:09 AM  
scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2013-10-14 09:59:09 AM  

itsaidwhat: I laughed when POTUS nazi'd the national parks and bank rolled his NPR media.


Those CPB appropriations were approved by Congress in 2012. But go you.
 
2013-10-14 09:59:20 AM  

itsaidwhat: Obama and his libtard sycophants are equally to blame by representing the do-nothing leaches of society.

I laughed when POTUS nazi'd the national parks and bank rolled his NPR media. What a joke to all of us that work for a living and don't have the time to waste gawking at a tree or a giant hole in the ground. And to the veterans regarding closed memorials - I don't need to stare at a monolith to be reminded of their sacrifice - I see that in everything that I am free and able to enjoy all around me. I and my freedom are not victim to any so-called shutdown.

When a "government shutdown" still leaves 83% of the (bottom feeding) public servants at work, then we have real problem with entitlements at the top and the bottom of society.

And to the foreigners afraid of our debt ceiling, you are welcome - to the financial shelter and stability our American enterprise has afforded you under your own years of tribunal unrest. Suck it up.


That you Ted?
 
2013-10-14 09:59:52 AM  

HAMMERTOE: Slaxl: It's no longer about obamacare. It's your economic future. You cannot possibly think destroying your economy and angering the entire world is worth getting rid of Obamacare, can you?

Even more evidence that special interests have their fingers far too deeply interwoven in the U.S. government, on both sides of the political coin.

On one hand, we've got a multibillion dollar corporation (Washington Redskins) that's supposed to go to all kinds of expense to change its name because a handful of people that the name has absolutely no effect over suddenly have their panties in a manufactured wad over the name. Yet, a 2000-page travesty of a "healthcare plan" which is already offending millions and was hammered through with barely any review is supposed to stand simply because "it's the law". (If history is any  indication, so was slavery at one time.)


Again, we see that Republicans have to actually lie for the basis for their beliefs.

Seriously, sweetie, lots of people are capable of using Google and finding out that you are lying. You should stop.
 
2013-10-14 10:00:00 AM  

way south: dittybopper: China, Japan, Saudi Arabia, Germany and Singapore: Raise the debt ceiling NOW, a default by the United States would have a profound effect on our economies.

So, you're saying that there would be some positive effects, then.

Depends on how you define positive...


[img.fark.net image 502x640]

The illusion is that we've got one party that is obstinate and another that is reasonable.  One that cares only for its own glory and one that loves us and wants to save the nation and the world we support.
 The reality is both sides are self serving wenches that really don't care what happens so long as they "win".

If the world really wanted to see a solution then they'd have Putin call the white house and negotiate a settlement. They'd drag both party leaders into a room at the UN and give them a stern talking to.
This chiding is just so other leaders can score points of their own. They couldn't care less if we default.

Politics is a game for our emotions, not a method of leadership. It can't be trusted to run a bank.
To which a default would be "positive" in a sense that, as a planet, we would be forced to rethink what debt means and how it should be managed. We would stop allowing blame to cover for poor leadership skills, and stop seeing grandstanding as a symbol of strength.People would pay more attention to the fine print than the headlines.

So, yes, there might be a silver lining to this. Famines and wars aside.

/A small fire now is sometimes better than a big one later.
/altho it would be best to avoid both entirely.


That's not how you cut a baby in half
 
2013-10-14 10:00:03 AM  
HAMMERTOE:

On one hand, we've got a multibillion dollar corporation (Washington Redskins) that's supposed to go to all kinds of expense to change its name because a handful of people that the name has absolutely no effect over suddenly have their panties in a manufactured wad over the name. Yet, a 2000-page travesty of a "healthcare plan" which is already offending millions and was hammered through with barely any review is supposed to stand simply because "it's the law". (If history is any  indication, so was slavery at one time.)

Sounds like this is an outrage.
 
2013-10-14 10:00:37 AM  

Rapmaster2000: Clearly, these countries have never owned a small business.  You see, when a business has bills it needs to pay, it can either pay those bills or default on them.  The fiscally conservative way is to default on your bills.  That's how I run my small business, and why I'm voting for Ted Cruz.


notsureifserious.jpg
 
2013-10-14 10:00:42 AM  

Gunther: The absurd hysterical fearmongering over the national debt has so far been far more harmful than the debt itself, seeing as it has resulted in us cutting government spending during a recession, the absolute worst time to do so.


The thing I like to point out is that people keep saying "Run the government like a business!" Well, if that's what we want to do (not that I recommend it), then we should continue carrying as large a debt load as we can support. Why?  Because debt is how you grow. When a government takes on debt, that government is spending with the anticipation that this debt is going to allow it to invest in the economy and grow. If our economy gets bigger, than the debt-to-GDP ratio shrinks.

To be concrete: let's say I run a pizza parlor. Like most restaurants, I'm barely scraping by. I haven't got a penny of spare cash at the end of the month. I want to expand my business- there are a lot of people out there who I could sell pizza to, but I can't afford a new oven, I can't afford to pay extra drivers, and I'd need a better phone system to handle the increased call volume. So what do I do?

I take on some debt. I get someone else- a bank, and investor- to give me money in anticipation that this money will let me grow my business. Debt powers economic growth. This "cash on the barrelhead" routine is delightfully simple, but it doesn't scale well to multi-million dollar transactions.
 
2013-10-14 10:01:11 AM  

DubtodaIll: I'm for default not because I think it will do any immediate good but that it will cause global reckoning.  Something needs to happen to jolt this nation out of the decades long cycle of continuing to spend more money than we have and creating a level of debt that is difficult to fathom.  Sure, things have worked fine under this system for a while, but the longer we attempt this mode of economics the worse the situation becomes.  I would rather see we work to fix our situation by normal means however I think that's far more impossible than the "impossibility" of the US defaulting on its full credit.  This Congress is so dysfunctional that it really brings in to question the validity of the system.  And maybe by some stroke of luck that dysfunction will force a situation where we're actually forced to face the consequences of the decisions that have been made in the past.
    I really don't know where I was going with any of this, but while a default would be an catastrophic situation, it may be what needs to happen now to ensure a survivable future.


The sting survive and the weak perish, is that it?
 
2013-10-14 10:02:39 AM  

itsaidwhat: Obama and his libtard sycophants are equally to blame by representing the do-nothing leaches of society.

I laughed when POTUS nazi'd the national parks and bank rolled his NPR media. What a joke to all of us that work for a living and don't have the time to waste gawking at a tree or a giant hole in the ground. And to the veterans regarding closed memorials - I don't need to stare at a monolith to be reminded of their sacrifice - I see that in everything that I am free and able to enjoy all around me. I and my freedom are not victim to any so-called shutdown.

When a "government shutdown" still leaves 83% of the (bottom feeding) public servants at work, then we have real problem with entitlements at the top and the bottom of society.

And to the foreigners afraid of our debt ceiling, you are welcome - to the financial shelter and stability our American enterprise has afforded you under your own years of tribunal unrest. Suck it up.


oh, I love it! you can practically smell the foam
 
2013-10-14 10:03:41 AM  

NewportBarGuy: There is no other reserve currency.

We'll just have a much weaker one thanks to Congressional Republicans.


We all wish this, but no.
Destroying the dollar as the world's reserve currency drags the Euro into oblivion, and the healthy economies of Europe crash. The UK? Yeah, no.
Japan and China crash right along with us.
No other economy is big enough, and none is independent enough of ours that it isn't dragged down, too.
You'll have a huge panic sell-off of financial assets affecting tens of trillions in investment.
What's on the line is global financial meltdown followed by a depression that makes that of the 1930s look like a minor sad.
There is no fallback.

/That's why the whole world is becoming increasingly strident about this.
 
2013-10-14 10:03:52 AM  

Weaver95: DubtodaIll: I'm for default not because I think it will do any immediate good but that it will cause global reckoning.  Something needs to happen to jolt this nation out of the decades long cycle of continuing to spend more money than we have and creating a level of debt that is difficult to fathom.  Sure, things have worked fine under this system for a while, but the longer we attempt this mode of economics the worse the situation becomes.  I would rather see we work to fix our situation by normal means however I think that's far more impossible than the "impossibility" of the US defaulting on its full credit.  This Congress is so dysfunctional that it really brings in to question the validity of the system.  And maybe by some stroke of luck that dysfunction will force a situation where we're actually forced to face the consequences of the decisions that have been made in the past.
    I really don't know where I was going with any of this, but while a default would be an catastrophic situation, it may be what needs to happen now to ensure a survivable future.

The sting survive and the weak perish, is that it?


Approves

www.onlinesheetmusic.com
 
2013-10-14 10:05:38 AM  

itsaidwhat: Obama and his libtard sycophants are equally to blame by representing the do-nothing leaches of society.


I see this a lot, so let's clear it up:
www.thenaturalhome.com
Leaching

www.leeches.biz
Leeches
 
2013-10-14 10:06:06 AM  

Weaver95: DubtodaIll: I'm for default not because I think it will do any immediate good but that it will cause global reckoning.  Something needs to happen to jolt this nation out of the decades long cycle of continuing to spend more money than we have and creating a level of debt that is difficult to fathom.  Sure, things have worked fine under this system for a while, but the longer we attempt this mode of economics the worse the situation becomes.  I would rather see we work to fix our situation by normal means however I think that's far more impossible than the "impossibility" of the US defaulting on its full credit.  This Congress is so dysfunctional that it really brings in to question the validity of the system.  And maybe by some stroke of luck that dysfunction will force a situation where we're actually forced to face the consequences of the decisions that have been made in the past.
    I really don't know where I was going with any of this, but while a default would be an catastrophic situation, it may be what needs to happen now to ensure a survivable future.

The sting survive and the weak perish, is that it?


DON'T

DON'T STAND

DON'T STAND SO CLOSE TO MD
 
2013-10-14 10:06:57 AM  
ME

Dammit.
 
2013-10-14 10:07:26 AM  
So why even have a debt ceiling if it is not going to be observed?

BTW Senator Obama voted not to increase it in 2006 when exact same situation came up.

No hypocrisy like liberal hypocrisy.
 
2013-10-14 10:08:09 AM  

way south: If the world really wanted to see a solution then they'd have Putin call the white house and negotiate a settlement. They'd drag both party leaders into a room at the UN and give them a stern talking to.
This chiding is just so other leaders can score points of their own. They couldn't care less if we default.


www.reactionface.info

way south: So, yes, there might be a silver lining to this. Famines and wars aside.


I hope you have some dried beans and a reverse osmosis still in with all those guns.
 
2013-10-14 10:08:41 AM  

way south: dittybopper: China, Japan, Saudi Arabia, Germany and Singapore: Raise the debt ceiling NOW, a default by the United States would have a profound effect on our economies.

So, you're saying that there would be some positive effects, then.

Depends on how you define positive...


[img.fark.net image 502x640]

The illusion is that we've got one party that is obstinate and another that is reasonable.  One that cares only for its own glory and one that loves us and wants to save the nation and the world we support.
 The reality is both sides are self serving wenches that really don't care what happens so long as they "win".

If the world really wanted to see a solution then they'd have Putin call the white house and negotiate a settlement. They'd drag both party leaders into a room at the UN and give them a stern talking to.
This chiding is just so other leaders can score points of their own. They couldn't care less if we default.

Politics is a game for our emotions, not a method of leadership. It can't be trusted to run a bank.
To which a default would be "positive" in a sense that, as a planet, we would be forced to rethink what debt means and how it should be managed. We would stop allowing blame to cover for poor leadership skills, and stop seeing grandstanding as a symbol of strength.People would pay more attention to the fine print than the headlines.

So, yes, there might be a silver lining to this. Famines and wars aside.

/A small fire now is sometimes better than a big one later.
/altho it would be best to avoid both entirely.


Say, who was that guy that used to post derpitude and pictures that were directly opposite of the derpitude?  Those were always fun to have around.
 
2013-10-14 10:09:16 AM  

Testiclaw: DON'T STAND SO CLOSE TO MD


What's wrong with Maryland?
 
2013-10-14 10:09:32 AM  

MilesTeg: So why even have a debt ceiling if it is not going to be observed?


No reason. There is no reason to have one.

MilesTeg: BTW Senator Obama voted not to increase it in 2006 when exact same situation came up.


Now you're getting it! The debt limit is an arbitrary number whose only purpose is to be used as a partisan hammer when the other guy's party is in the White House. It should be abolished. Bring back the Gephardt rule.
 
2013-10-14 10:10:14 AM  

itsaidwhat: Obama and his libtard sycophants are equally to blame by representing the do-nothing leaches of society.


Close to 90% of the people receiving some kind of federal assistance fall into the categories of working poor, retired or disabled, including veterans and the elderly, people who put in their time. To call them do-nothing leaches [sic] is one of the lowest! most insulting and disgusting lies a person can spread about their fellow citizens. When itsaidwhat employs this lie it demonstrates him to be a dishonest, stupid, hateful human being, one of the worst of us. This is the face of the right wing now, this ignorant malice and selfish dishonesty.
 
2013-10-14 10:10:54 AM  
The US dollar is the world's currency because of the world's (and American public's) faith in the US's ability to execute and its insane purchasing power.  .  Even Boner said that he would not let the US default, because even Boner, in his limited cognitive capacity, knows that the US economy is symbiotic with the world economy.  The world must have faith in the American dollar.
 
2013-10-14 10:11:04 AM  

Director_Mr: If you are blaming one side any more than the other you aren't paying attention.


No, people like you are the ones who are not paying attention. To say that the Democrats are as much to blame as the Republicans for creating this crisis is completely dishonest and/or lazy.
 
2013-10-14 10:12:01 AM  

MilesTeg: So why even have a debt ceiling if it is not going to be observed?
BTW Senator Obama voted not to increase it in 2006 when exact same situation came up.
No hypocrisy like liberal hypocrisy.



No ignorance like both-sides-are-bad ignorance.

Yeah, that was a hell of a long shutdown and near-default we had back in '06, wasn't it?  The world economy was just all a-flutter.
 
2013-10-14 10:12:34 AM  
I really hate farking autocorrect.
 
2013-10-14 10:12:38 AM  

SpectroBoy: The Dem's position is "Pass a clean bill to prevent the impending disaster"
The GOP position is "No funding until we get our other demands met too."


Dems: Pass a clean bill and fund the entire government.
Obama:  We won't negotiate with the GOP about government funding until the GOP funds the entire government.
GOP:  We don't want to fund the entire government; THAT'S the issue.

GOP: We've passed bills to fund some parts of the government that we don't have an issue with.  Let's negotiate about the other parts.
Dems:  Nope. Meet 100% of our funding demands or nothing gets funded.
Obama:  Gonna veto them if they get to me.  Fund the entire government; then we'll negotiate about the funding.
GOP:  We don't want to fund the entire government; THAT'S the issue.
 
2013-10-14 10:13:58 AM  
itsaidwhat


0/0
 
2013-10-14 10:14:03 AM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: The debt limit is an arbitrary number whose only purpose is to be used as a partisan hammer when the other guy's party is in the White House. It should be abolished. Bring back the Gephardt rule.


This should be inscribed on a baseball bat and that bat should be used to beat some sense into everyone in D.C.

/yes, both side suck donkey balls and no, you shouldn't vote (R)
 
2013-10-14 10:14:47 AM  

Detinwolf: The US dollar is the world's currency because of the world's (and American public's) faith in the US's ability to execute and its insane purchasing power.  .  Even Boner said that he would not let the US default, because even Boner, in his limited cognitive capacity, knows that the US economy is symbiotic with the world economy.  The world must have faith in the American dollar.


Even if we don't default, this could bring another credit downgrade.  That wouldn't be apocalyptic, but it certainly would have long lasting effects.

Think your student loan payments are high now?
 
2013-10-14 10:14:50 AM  
I'd like to yell this at the people who are CONVINCED that we have enough income to cover our debt payments (so we can't default):  What are you going to do when your dollars aren't worth anything?  If you are somehow insulated from those effects, how many of your neighbors with guns and hungry bellies are?
 
2013-10-14 10:14:58 AM  

itsaidwhat: Obama derpityderpityderp.


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-10-14 10:17:16 AM  

Director_Mr: If you are blaming one side any more than the other you aren't paying attention.


Normally I would agree with you in the both sides are bad thing, however, in this situation, I think one side is clearly worse than the other.

When you start getting votes like the one below, clearly it has nothing to do with what is good for the American people anymore. From my Lehman's understanding - this vote basically was a GOP attempt to "compromise" by voting out a bill that has been singed - also known as a 'law' - and upheld by the US Supreme Court.
An attempt to "compromise" by keeping the government open as long as we eliminate funding that would provide all Americans with healthcare.

www.c-span.org
 
2013-10-14 10:17:28 AM  

jake_lex: This could end up costing some of the people who give the GOP the most in contributions a lot of money. I think this might be what finally makes them cut the Tea Party loose, but we'll see.


That ship has sailed.  There have even been FARK threads about it.  The big GOP donors are as against this as anyone else, but there isn't much they can do until the next election.
 
2013-10-14 10:17:31 AM  

VendorXeno: itsaidwhat: Obama and his libtard sycophants are equally to blame by representing the do-nothing leaches of society.

Close to 90% of the people receiving some kind of federal assistance fall into the categories of working poor, retired or disabled, including veterans and the elderly, people who put in their time. To call them do-nothing leaches [sic] is one of the lowest! most insulting and disgusting lies a person can spread about their fellow citizens. When itsaidwhat employs this lie it demonstrates him to be a dishonest, stupid, hateful human being, one of the worst of us. This is the face of the right wing now, this ignorant malice and selfish dishonesty.


media.tumblr.com
 
2013-10-14 10:17:38 AM  
KimNorth:  Out of all the headlines on all the stories submitted it seems they have been hand picking the most, I hate/Republican/religion-Christians/etc... Headline lead in's they can choose.

thechoicedrivenlife.com
 
2013-10-14 10:18:02 AM  

MilesTeg: So why even have a debt ceiling if it is not going to be observed?


It was initially to be a meaningless vote so that pols could go home and say they were being fiscally responsible, not like those evil borrow/tax and spenders like the other side.
 
2013-10-14 10:20:06 AM  
RickN99:GOP:  We don't want to fund the entire government; THAT'S the issue.

Totally true. Also, notice how this removes the "both sides are bad" argument. The House Republicans are acting like a small child- flailing, kicking, and screaming "We don't wanna!"
 
2013-10-14 10:20:35 AM  

Headso: I am curious if you have positions shorting all sorts of things and you are a big teabagger either very close to or in congress could you be charged with some crime if the default actually occurs?


Congress has exempted itself from insider trading laws.  And yes, there are congresscritters shorting US Treasury bonds.
 
2013-10-14 10:20:38 AM  

itsaidwhat: Obama and his libtard sycophants are equally to blame by representing the do-nothing leaches of society.

I laughed when POTUS nazi'd the national parks and bank rolled his NPR media. What a joke to all of us that work for a living and don't have the time to waste gawking at a tree or a giant hole in the ground. And to the veterans regarding closed memorials - I don't need to stare at a monolith to be reminded of their sacrifice - I see that in everything that I am free and able to enjoy all around me. I and my freedom are not victim to any so-called shutdown.

When a "government shutdown" still leaves 83% of the (bottom feeding) public servants at work, then we have real problem with entitlements at the top and the bottom of society.

And to the foreigners afraid of our debt ceiling, you are welcome - to the financial shelter and stability our American enterprise has afforded you under your own years of tribunal unrest. Suck it up.


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-10-14 10:20:40 AM  

SpectroBoy: itsaidwhat: Obama derpityderpityderp.

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 600x682]


That one is so much better than my attempt to make the background black. Thanks for that.

Totally unrelated to what Spectroboy gave me. I admit I have no idea why the debt ceiling MUST BE RAISED or we automatically default. Best guess is that the debt ceiling must be raised because inflation which is on average 3% per year. I also know that fiat currency is also, effectively, debt.

Query: Would the US defaulting start a new World War? Is it possible that the people in charge want a war because of what it did to our economy last time?
 
2013-10-14 10:21:25 AM  

Wasteland: MilesTeg: So why even have a debt ceiling if it is not going to be observed?
BTW Senator Obama voted not to increase it in 2006 when exact same situation came up.
No hypocrisy like liberal hypocrisy.


No ignorance like both-sides-are-bad ignorance.

Yeah, that was a hell of a long shutdown and near-default we had back in '06, wasn't it?  The world economy was just all a-flutter.


Listen, how many times do we have to tell you:

Both sides are equally at fault for this mess. Equally bad. Both sides.

Both sides are equally bad, and at fault, for this mess.

Also, vote Republican.
 
2013-10-14 10:21:56 AM  
static.photo.net
 
2013-10-14 10:22:41 AM  

RickN99: SpectroBoy: The Dem's position is "Pass a clean bill to prevent the impending disaster"
The GOP position is "No funding until we get our other demands met too."

Dems: Pass a clean bill and fund the entire government.
Obama:  We won't negotiate with the GOP about government funding until the GOP funds the entire government.
GOP:  We don't want to fund the entire government; THAT'S the issue.

GOP: We've passed bills to fund some parts of the government that we don't have an issue with.  Let's negotiate about the other parts.
Dems:  Nope. Meet 100% of our funding demands or nothing gets funded.
Obama:  Gonna veto them if they get to me.  Fund the entire government; then we'll negotiate about the funding.
GOP:  We don't want to fund the entire government; THAT'S the issue.


I guess the Dems should start telling everyone how UNAMERICAN things are.  That shiat works wonders when there's an R in the White House who wants something monumentally stupid.
 
2013-10-14 10:22:43 AM  

Director_Mr: If you are blaming one side any more than the other you aren't paying attention.


Say Fark Independents when they know Republicans are to blame.
 
2013-10-14 10:23:36 AM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: KimNorth:  Out of all the headlines on all the stories submitted it seems they have been hand picking the most, I hate/Republican/religion-Christians/etc... Headline lead in's they can choose.

[thechoicedrivenlife.com image 238x300]


You're trying too hard.

I live with my mom
 
2013-10-14 10:26:44 AM  

moefuggenbrew: www.c-span.org


What's with the two Democrats voting in favor?
 
2013-10-14 10:27:00 AM  

AeAe: way south: dittybopper: China, Japan, Saudi Arabia, Germany and Singapore: Raise the debt ceiling NOW, a default by the United States would have a profound effect on our economies.

So, you're saying that there would be some positive effects, then.

Depends on how you define positive...


[img.fark.net image 502x640]

The illusion is that we've got one party that is obstinate and another that is reasonable.  One that cares only for its own glory and one that loves us and wants to save the nation and the world we support.
 The reality is both sides are self serving wenches that really don't care what happens so long as they "win".

If the world really wanted to see a solution then they'd have Putin call the white house and negotiate a settlement. They'd drag both party leaders into a room at the UN and give them a stern talking to.
This chiding is just so other leaders can score points of their own. They couldn't care less if we default.

Politics is a game for our emotions, not a method of leadership. It can't be trusted to run a bank.
To which a default would be "positive" in a sense that, as a planet, we would be forced to rethink what debt means and how it should be managed. We would stop allowing blame to cover for poor leadership skills, and stop seeing grandstanding as a symbol of strength.People would pay more attention to the fine print than the headlines.

So, yes, there might be a silver lining to this. Famines and wars aside.

/A small fire now is sometimes better than a big one later.
/altho it would be best to avoid both entirely.

That's not how you cut a baby in half


Yes, it is. You have to chop from the groin - with the help of gravity - through the body. If you struck the skull, the rounded (even if not quite solid yet) skull might partially deflect the blow and cause an uneven bisection. And that wouldn't be fair.

/Metaphor is good, so long as we all agree that the liar "mom" of the story represents the Republicans
//No, Mr. Police Investigator, this post was in jest and I do not, in fact, advocate or...ouch! Easy with those cuffs!
 
2013-10-14 10:28:28 AM  
Hmmm... if this plays out right (or wrong, however you wish to view it), WW3 will be fought with money?
 
2013-10-14 10:28:40 AM  

Director_Mr: If you are blaming one side any more than the other you aren't paying attention.


So vote ______________?
 
2013-10-14 10:28:56 AM  

fluffy2097: Slaxl: Misconduc: Sorry after being a democrat since Clinton - I side with the GOP over Obamacare. Honestly I could give a crap about how bad Obama has been as president,  but Obamacare really is something to fight against - forcing working people to pay for medical they cannot afford or need.

It's no longer about obamacare. It's your economic future. You cannot possibly think destroying your economy and angering the entire world is worth getting rid of Obamacare, can you?

I don't think you understand slaxl.

POOR GAY PEOPLE ARE GETTING HEALTH CARE MARRIAGES!
 
WE CAN'T HAVE POOR GAY PEOPLE HAVING THINGS OR OUR RICH CHRISTIAN PEOPLE THINGS ARE WORTHLESS BECAUSE THEY ARE OWNED BY POORS GAYS!


Changing a few words, and it comes out to about the same thing. The ppl running their tea party puppets can't seem to tell they are being fed a diet of stupidity based flash cards.
 
2013-10-14 10:29:11 AM  

RickN99: GOP:  We don't want to fund the entire government; THAT'S the issue.


You proved my point. It is the GOP and only the GOP that is not funding the government at this point. It is THEIR FAULT. It is not a "both sides are bad" issue.

Thanks for backing me up.
 
2013-10-14 10:29:20 AM  

itsaidwhat: Obama and his libtard sycophants are equally to blame by representing the do-nothing leaches of society.

I laughed when POTUS nazi'd the national parks and bank rolled his NPR media. What a joke to all of us that work for a living and don't have the time to waste gawking at a tree or a giant hole in the ground. And to the veterans regarding closed memorials - I don't need to stare at a monolith to be reminded of their sacrifice - I see that in everything that I am free and able to enjoy all around me. I and my freedom are not victim to any so-called shutdown.

When a "government shutdown" still leaves 83% of the (bottom feeding) public servants at work, then we have real problem with entitlements at the top and the bottom of society.

And to the foreigners afraid of our debt ceiling, you are welcome - to the financial shelter and stability our American enterprise has afforded you under your own years of tribunal unrest. Suck it up.


www.alltackle.com
This is good. Even sneaked in a Godwin. A bit forceful for my taste, but you've got raw talent kid.  Refine the presentation and you'll be thread shaitting in no time!
 
2013-10-14 10:30:17 AM  

DubtodaIll: I'm for default not because I think it will do any immediate good but that it will cause global reckoning.  Something needs to happen to jolt this nation out of the decades long cycle of continuing to spend more money than we have and creating a level of debt that is difficult to fathom.  Sure, things have worked fine under this system for a while, but the longer we attempt this mode of economics the worse the situation becomes.  I would rather see we work to fix our situation by normal means however I think that's far more impossible than the "impossibility" of the US defaulting on its full credit.  This Congress is so dysfunctional that it really brings in to question the validity of the system.  And maybe by some stroke of luck that dysfunction will force a situation where we're actually forced to face the consequences of the decisions that have been made in the past.
    I really don't know where I was going with any of this, but while a default would be an catastrophic situation, it may be what needs to happen now to ensure a survivable future.


Ah, yes the populist deficit hawk. SO concerned about our debt that they support a government shutdown that will cost us billions to undo. SO concerned that they support a default that will raise our interest rates and make our debt more expensive to service, effectively raising our debt. SO concerned that they support austerity measures that slow economic growth and thus hurt our debt to GDP ratio.

In short you can tell the populist deficit hawk from other deficit hawks because they are the only ones gullible enough to buy into ideas that directly and obviously work against their stated goal of reducing the debt.
 
2013-10-14 10:31:11 AM  

Wasteland: MilesTeg: So why even have a debt ceiling if it is not going to be observed?
BTW Senator Obama voted not to increase it in 2006 when exact same situation came up.
No hypocrisy like liberal hypocrisy.


No ignorance like both-sides-are-bad ignorance.

Yeah, that was a hell of a long shutdown and near-default we had back in '06, wasn't it?  The world economy was just all a-flutter.


Stop spinning, you are obviously dizzy. Spouting DNC talking points does not make your argument valid.

Facts are facts. You may want people to think somehow the situation is different now than it was then but it isn't.
 
2013-10-14 10:31:14 AM  

ajgeek: Query: Would the US defaulting start a new World War? Is it possible that the people in charge want a war because of what it did to our economy last time?


Depending on how bad the depression/recession is, some countries might see it as a means to get at resources, but realistically, my concern would be rampant unemployment, especially with young people, and some kind of violent rioting and possible revolution occurring...
 
2013-10-14 10:31:37 AM  

RickN99: SpectroBoy: The Dem's position is "Pass a clean bill to prevent the impending disaster"
The GOP position is "No funding until we get our other demands met too."

Dems: Pass a clean bill and fund the entire government.
Obama:  We won't negotiate with the GOP about government funding until the GOP funds the entire government.
GOP:  We don't want to fund the entire government; THAT'S the issue.

GOP: We've passed bills to fund some parts of the government that we don't have an issue with.  Let's negotiate about the other parts.
Dems:  Nope. Meet 100% of our funding demands or nothing gets funded.
Obama:  Gonna veto them if they get to me.  Fund the entire government; then we'll negotiate about the funding.
GOP:  We don't want to fund the entire government; THAT'S the issue.


Currently proposed government funding levels are a direct result of Speaker John Boehner receiving "98%" of what he wanted. Current funding levels, therefore, are at Republican-desired levels.

The original Republican-passed spending bill did not change government funding levels; it served only to eliminate an existing law that they did not like, despite that law having been signed into law three years ago, surviving a Constitutional challenge and effectively surviving voter referendum when the President who championed it defeated a challenger who promised to repeal it.

Your argument is a lie and you are a liar for making it.
 
2013-10-14 10:31:54 AM  
Who cares about them thar furriner places. What, a bunch a squinty-eyed commies, weird cartoon watching commies, terrorists, commie nazis, and what ever the hell a Singapore is. I don't know where that is, and real 'Muricans don't! We care about 'Murica and tossing General El Presidente Hussian Commie Osama Fartbongo Obammy outta the WHITE house.
Kin I get a cheer for willful ignorance!
 
2013-10-14 10:32:54 AM  
How many government employees does it take to write checks for the interest on the debt?  One to hold the pen and two to turn the ladder?
 
2013-10-14 10:33:24 AM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: Sounds like great news for me and lots of regular Americans.

I owe hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt at ridiculous interest rates. Much of it is immune from bankruptcy (yay - education bubble!).

Bring on the inflation. When a loaf of bread costs 100 dollars and my annual salary is 500,000k - my debts will be a drop in the bucket.


I get the idea of how a worthless dollar benefits people who have more debt than assets, but what if a loaf of bread costs 100 dollars and your annual salary doesn't inflate accordingly?
 
2013-10-14 10:34:32 AM  

moefuggenbrew: this vote basically was a GOP attempt to "compromise" by voting out a bill that has been singed - also known as a 'law'


Lots of things are laws, like the debt ceiling and the employer mandate.
 
2013-10-14 10:34:33 AM  

vpb: A default would violate the 14th amendment and if the minute the debt ceiling makes that inveitable it becomes unconstitutional.


How so.

By which I mean, explain how that reading is coherent in the context of the "authorized by law" provision of Section 4, and even so, how SCOTUS or POTUS could do anything about it, in the context of Section 5.

Budget issues are, as always, at Congressional discretion.
 
2013-10-14 10:36:01 AM  

MilesTeg: Facts are facts. You may want people to think somehow the situation is different now than it was then but it isn't.


i.dailymail.co.uk
 
2013-10-14 10:37:02 AM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: So instead of the US losing its status in the world market gradually over the next few decades we will lose it all now. Good luck buying all your oil and other imports in euros.


We buy our oil from Canada, Mexico, and Venezuela. Do you really think they won't take dollars?
 
2013-10-14 10:37:20 AM  
media.cagle.com
 
2013-10-14 10:37:53 AM  

flondrix: Fark_Guy_Rob: Sounds like great news for me and lots of regular Americans.

I owe hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt at ridiculous interest rates. Much of it is immune from bankruptcy (yay - education bubble!).

Bring on the inflation. When a loaf of bread costs 100 dollars and my annual salary is 500,000k - my debts will be a drop in the bucket.

I get the idea of how a worthless dollar benefits people who have more debt than assets, but what if a loaf of bread costs 100 dollars and your annual salary doesn't inflate accordingly?


Seeing as wages have not kept pace with inflation, you're probably more right than you realize.
 
2013-10-14 10:38:41 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Fark_Guy_Rob: I owe hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt at ridiculous interest rates.  Much of it is immune from bankruptcy (yay - education bubble!).

Bring on the inflation.  When a loaf of bread costs 100 dollars and my annual salary is 500,000k - my debts will be a drop in the bucket.

Good plan, but I suspect interest rates will go up to match the inflation.


They certainly will...

However for many people the majority of their debt is their fixed rate mortgage.

If we have 1000% inflation...I will still be paying 3% something interest.

Typically inflation hurts the rich but is beneficial to the majority of people... that's why politicians hate it.
 
2013-10-14 10:39:52 AM  

KimNorth: Zeb Hesselgresser: KimNorth:  Out of all the headlines on all the stories submitted it seems they have been hand picking the most, I hate/Republican/religion-Christians/etc... Headline lead in's they can choose.

You're trying too hard.

I live with my mom


A nonsense holiday with no banking, no mail and it's too early to go to the golf course, so, yeah.
 
2013-10-14 10:39:57 AM  

VendorXeno: itsaidwhat: Obama and his libtard sycophants are equally to blame by representing the do-nothing leaches of society.

Close to 90% of the people receiving some kind of federal assistance fall into the categories of working poor, retired or disabled, including veterans and the elderly, people who put in their time. To call them do-nothing leaches [sic] is one of the lowest! most insulting and disgusting lies a person can spread about their fellow citizens. When itsaidwhat employs this lie it demonstrates him to be a dishonest, stupid, hateful human being, one of the worst of us. This is the face of the right wing now, this ignorant malice and selfish dishonesty.


Libtard. Look at the numbers. Entitlements are killing America. Wealthy taking social security, abled taking disability, creating children where no family exists to raise them. And before you put a face on my opinions (you racist) be aware that I welcome people of all colors, national origin, religion and sexual orientation to join me on the work line to support "the working poor". You have no idea how I made it to where I am but it starts with self respect and respect for others - including their beliefs and their property. When libtards seek to take away either, they will meet with the harsh reality of my rights. Yes, please - face me - and tell me you deserve what I have earned. You will get what my conscience thinks you deserve.
 
2013-10-14 10:40:45 AM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: I owe hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt at ridiculous interest rates. Much of it is immune from bankruptcy (yay - education bubble!).

Bring on the inflation. When a loaf of bread costs 100 dollars and my annual salary is 500,000k - my debts will be a drop in the bucket.


You currently have hundreds of thousands of debt and make approximately 15k per year?
 
2013-10-14 10:41:41 AM  
Well, goodbye economy. Thanks, Republicans.
 
KIA
2013-10-14 10:41:50 AM  
As a non-government dependent, non-government employed, hard working, self-insured, productive member of society, I'm getting a kick out of the replies in this thread.
 
2013-10-14 10:42:41 AM  
It's all just a diversionary tactic. We're not taking about about certain GOP members who are trying to redefine rape, running off with Latin American mistresses, harassing male interns, or defending their "wide stance" right now, are we?
 
2013-10-14 10:43:11 AM  

CleanAndPure: HotIgneous Intruder: Fark_Guy_Rob: I owe hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt at ridiculous interest rates.  Much of it is immune from bankruptcy (yay - education bubble!).

Bring on the inflation.  When a loaf of bread costs 100 dollars and my annual salary is 500,000k - my debts will be a drop in the bucket.

Good plan, but I suspect interest rates will go up to match the inflation.

They certainly will...

However for many people the majority of their debt is their fixed rate mortgage.

If we have 1000% inflation...I will still be paying 3% something interest.

Typically inflation hurts the rich but is beneficial to the majority of people... that's why politicians hate it.


Someone in this thread has "hundreds of thousands" of mostly student loan debt. Aren't most student loans of that size on an adjustable interest rate? If so Fark_guy_rob is boned,
 
2013-10-14 10:44:39 AM  

KIA: As a non-government dependent, non-government employed, hard working, self-insured, productive member of society, I'm getting a kick out of the replies in this thread.


doubtful.
 
2013-10-14 10:44:43 AM  

CleanAndPure: Typically inflation hurts the rich but is beneficial to the majority of people... that's why politicians hate it.


Inflation can be good in some situations to debtors, but it kills savers like old retired people.
 
2013-10-14 10:45:22 AM  
How can you have a paper currency as a reserve currency?
 
2013-10-14 10:45:51 AM  

itsaidwhat: Libtard. Look at the numbers. Entitlements are killing America. Wealthy taking social security, abled taking disability, creating children where no family exists to raise them. And before you put a face on my opinions (you racist) be aware that I welcome people of all colors, national origin, religion and sexual orientation to join me on the work line to support "the working poor". You have no idea how I made it to where I am but it starts with self respect and respect for others - including their beliefs and their property. When libtards seek to take away either, they will meet with the harsh reality of my rights. Yes, please - face me - and tell me you deserve what I have earned. You will get what my conscience thinks you deserve.


You might not be racist but you're certainly lacking in perspective and incapable of empathy, and you're also parroting taking points that were debunked in the 80s.
 
2013-10-14 10:48:13 AM  

jigger: CleanAndPure: Typically inflation hurts the rich but is beneficial to the majority of people... that's why politicians hate it.

Inflation can be good in some situations to debtors, but it kills savers like old retired people.


Only if they keep their cash under the mattress instead of reinvesting.
 
2013-10-14 10:48:25 AM  

GoodyearPimp: I'd like to yell this at the people who are CONVINCED that we have enough income to cover our debt payments (so we can't default):  What are you going to do when your dollars aren't worth anything?  If you are somehow insulated from those effects, how many of your neighbors with guns and hungry bellies are?


I will do what I have always done. Get up and go to work, notwithstanding the government incompetence.

I was naked and penniless when I entered this world. If I haven't learned enough since then to survive and teach others to do the same, or if I'm too old to do it, by what right do I have to ask others to do it for me? The world doesn't owe me the right to be an ongoing fertilizer factory.
 
2013-10-14 10:49:08 AM  

Gunther: way south: The reality is both sides are self serving wenches that really don't care what happens so long as they "win".

Oh fantastic, BSABSVR! I'm close to winning at Derp Bingo!


oh fantastic BSABSVR!  derp, so vote Democrat!

/see how pathetic and stupid you are?
 
2013-10-14 10:52:16 AM  
More people who cant do math.
Take in 250 billion a month.
Monthly interest on debt is 60 billion a month.
We will not default, the debt payments can be made without raising debt celing.
Obama in 2006 " debt celing increase is unpatriotic, i vote no"
Obama 2013 "not raising debt celing is unpatriotic, no votes are economic terrorism"

/living within your means, how does it work?
 
2013-10-14 10:53:03 AM  

way south: This chiding is just so other leaders can score points of their own. They couldn't care less if we default.


someone has zero idea how global economics actually works.

Director_Mr: If you are blaming one side any more than the other you aren't paying attention.


So the police are equally to blame for a hostage situation because they won't negotiate with the hostage taker?
 
2013-10-14 10:53:14 AM  

FlippityFlap: itsaidwhat


0/0


"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man."

George Bernard Shaw
 
2013-10-14 10:53:33 AM  

you have pee hands: itsaidwhat: Libtard. Look at the numbers. Entitlements are killing America. Wealthy taking social security, abled taking disability, creating children where no family exists to raise them. And before you put a face on my opinions (you racist) be aware that I welcome people of all colors, national origin, religion and sexual orientation to join me on the work line to support "the working poor". You have no idea how I made it to where I am but it starts with self respect and respect for others - including their beliefs and their property. When libtards seek to take away either, they will meet with the harsh reality of my rights. Yes, please - face me - and tell me you deserve what I have earned. You will get what my conscience thinks you deserve.

You might not be racist but you're certainly lacking in perspective and incapable of empathy, and you're also parroting taking points that were debunked in the 80s.


I think he's being facetious.

It's really hard to tell these days, though, since parody of the right wing keeps becoming reality, like some sort of nightmarish collective-unconscious fueled warping of reality, where the worst things we can imagine take physical form.
 
2013-10-14 10:53:52 AM  

CleanAndPure: HotIgneous Intruder: Fark_Guy_Rob: I owe hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt at ridiculous interest rates.  Much of it is immune from bankruptcy (yay - education bubble!).

Bring on the inflation.  When a loaf of bread costs 100 dollars and my annual salary is 500,000k - my debts will be a drop in the bucket.

Good plan, but I suspect interest rates will go up to match the inflation.

They certainly will...

However for many people the majority of their debt is their fixed rate mortgage.

If we have 1000% inflation...I will still be paying 3% something interest.

Typically inflation hurts the rich but is beneficial to the majority of people... that's why politicians hate it.


Actually inflation tends to hurt the poor a little (as wage increases tend to lag behind inflation, so inflation tends to increase poverty rates - especially in the short term after inflation rises compared to recent history), is neutral/mildly beneficial to the middle class overall (helping the middle aged segment due to the debt issue you highlight, tending to hurt the younger and older segments of that group though), but it can hurt certain types of wealthy person (well financially speaking, I doubt it truly makes much difference to them by definition of being rich).
 
2013-10-14 10:53:55 AM  

Rapmaster2000: itsaidwhat: Obama and his libtard sycophants are equally to blame by representing the do-nothing leaches of society.

I see this a lot, so let's clear it up:

Leaching


Leeches


Noted.
 
2013-10-14 10:55:13 AM  
To the Tea Party and defaulting. They are first and foremost Libertarians. They want no government and they're hitting the accelerator as they drive towards the brink. The WSJ is overwrought because they know what a default means and they know you can't deal or negotiate with idealists because there's no leverage. Yes, I'm expecting Fox to start sounding sane this week, unfortunately the zealots are where they want to be. Oops, too late.

Assholes, they tear down the country and then expect to rebuild it to their liking regardless of the real pain caused. Even sounds vaguely similar to the plot of Atlas Shrugged.

To being the reserve currency. The dollar has been the world's backup because of its amazing, perennial stability since 1945. Once that trust is broken, it's like finding your significant other has been unfaithful... it will never be the same. Besides, the Euro and the Yuan would *love* to take its place. And don't say they can't displace the dollar because even in the 21st century investors rely on gut instinct vs logic and have as much courage as a rabbit. Markets are already worried because they've noticed brinkmanship is the new norm until 2014 or later.

To the simpletons in congress. There is no similarity between household finances and national finances or international finances.

// Hmm, I wonder if we need to define a Godwin-like law referencing Ayn Rand instead of Herr Schicklgruber.
 
2013-10-14 10:56:27 AM  

VendorXeno: itsaidwhat: Obama and his libtard sycophants are equally to blame by representing the do-nothing leaches of society.

Close to 90% of the people receiving some kind of federal assistance fall into the categories of working poor, retired or disabled, including veterans and the elderly, people who put in their time. To call them do-nothing leaches [sic] is one of the lowest! most insulting and disgusting lies a person can spread about their fellow citizens. When itsaidwhat employs this lie it demonstrates him to be a dishonest, stupid, hateful human being, one of the worst of us. This is the face of the right wing now, this ignorant malice and selfish dishonesty.


Yes. I work for a living. That makes me ignorant, malicious, selfish and dishonest.

I am rubber, you are glue...
 
2013-10-14 10:57:35 AM  
Enitria:
To the simpletons in congress. There is no similarity between household finances and national finances or international finances.

community.secondlife.com
 
2013-10-14 10:57:38 AM  

GORDON: I remember when Bush was evil and the President was expected to work with a Congress of the other political party, not the other way around.  But, then, that was like 8 years ago.  Times are different now.


Yes, because democrats threatened a shutdown and default under bush. Oh and threatened to impeach.

Or not.

False equivalence is false.
 
2013-10-14 10:57:53 AM  

vpb: There is zero chance of a default.  I don't think he would do in until the last minute, but I am sure Obama will disregard the debt ceiling if it comes to that.

A default would violate the 14th amendment and if the minute the debt ceiling makes that inveitable it becomes unconstitutional.


Which would kick of a host of constitutional litigation and doubt, as well as see the GOP finally having a thinly veiled reason to impeach him at the same time.

The markets and other world economies aren't going sit by idle when there's big questions of the validity of the issued debts and ability of the US to pay.  Invoking the 14th might starve off a world depression, but the dollar as a reserve currency will be finished, along with confidence in American markets and sovereign debt.   Meanwhile a triple shiat show at home of the GOP impeaching the president (theater), litigation on the constitutionality of it all (real questions), and the economy immediately going into another recession.

What amusing to me is that this is once again the GOP having to destroy something to prove their ideology.

They biatch and biatch about debt, deficits, and America going bankrupt; but that's just not how international markets work.  When the world economy went to shiat, demand for US debt skyrocketed and rates fell.  NO ONE in the market thought the US would EVER default either sooner or later, and see it as the safest place to put their money.  So much so, they were willing to pay a fee (negative interest rates) to protect their money from much larger contractions elsewhere.  Under no circumstance can the US go bankrupt in climate.  Businesses would LOVE to be in this position to leverage having to only pay back 90 cents for every dollar borrowed to build up capital investments.  It's like me going to the bank for a car loan, taking out a principle and having the bank MAKE ME monthly interest payments.

So, markets rebuffed the GOP's ideology because it's simply not how international finance or economics works, dur to our economy's size and due to our reserve currency status.  So they'll bankrupt the nation, screw over 50 years of being the world reserve currency, and destroy the world economy.  All so people pay attention to a deficit that's been falling at the fastest rate in 50 years, and debt that literally no one in finance or economics gives a shiat about beyond a phantom 50-80 year projection.

WW3 could start and end with a nuclear apocalypse in that time.  If we're worrying about things on that time scale, there's a dozen or so other things that are much more pertinent to worry about.
 
2013-10-14 11:01:51 AM  
If you want the debt ceiling raised so badly then tell the Democrats to compromise

Once again, when two sides refuse to compromise at all standing around screaming and pointing fingers at only one of them just makes you look like an idiot.
 
2013-10-14 11:03:19 AM  
Funny thing is, the tea party is already convinced that "fiat money" is inherently flawed and that leaving the gold standard doomed us all decades ago.
So their blowing up the currency is something of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

And you can be damn sure they're not going to feel any responsibility for it.
It will still be the fault of libs, immigrants, time-traveling Obama, et al.
 
2013-10-14 11:05:09 AM  

MemeSlave: How can you have a paper currency as a reserve currency?


Simple, you are betting on the full faith and credit of the nation in question. Which is no less reasonable than hoping someone doesn't accidentally discover a method for mass-producing whatever commodity you have as a reserve.
 
2013-10-14 11:05:52 AM  
We should just listen to what the POTUS said about raising the debt celling

We will not deafault on our payments, the gov takes in more than enough to pay the interest on our debt.... default talk is just scaremongering
 
2013-10-14 11:06:49 AM  

TyrantII: Which would kick of a host of constitutional litigation and doubt, as well as see the GOP finally having a thinly veiled reason to impeach him at the same time.


I really hope Obama does cite the 14th and then I really do hope the GOP tries to impeach the first black President of the United States of America...

(with respect to my homosexual brothers and sisters)...

i0.kym-cdn.com
 
2013-10-14 11:09:51 AM  

itsaidwhat: VendorXeno: itsaidwhat: Obama and his libtard sycophants are equally to blame by representing the do-nothing leaches of society.

Close to 90% of the people receiving some kind of federal assistance fall into the categories of working poor, retired or disabled, including veterans and the elderly, people who put in their time. To call them do-nothing leaches [sic] is one of the lowest! most insulting and disgusting lies a person can spread about their fellow citizens. When itsaidwhat employs this lie it demonstrates him to be a dishonest, stupid, hateful human being, one of the worst of us. This is the face of the right wing now, this ignorant malice and selfish dishonesty.

Yes. I work for a living. That makes me ignorant, malicious, selfish and dishonest.

I am rubber, you are glue...


It is your opinions as presented on this website that makes you look ignorant, malicious, selfish and dishonest, not the fact that you work for a living.
 
2013-10-14 11:09:54 AM  

Joe Blowme: We will not deafault on our payments, the gov takes in more than enough to pay the interest on our debt


So the same people who (rightfully) criticize Obamacare's less-than-stellar exchange rollout now completely trust the same government to prioritize billions in debt payments. Neato.
 
2013-10-14 11:10:18 AM  
Joe Blowme: We should just listen to what the POTUS said about raising the debt celling

We will not deafault on our payments, the gov takes in more than enough to pay the interest on our debt.... default talk is just scaremongering
 I really, really don't understand economics, or how the US government operates financially. In fact, I INSIST on being wrong. And I am proud of not knowing any better.

Tea Partier in a nutshell
 
2013-10-14 11:10:30 AM  

Joe Blowme: We should just listen to what the POTUS said about raising the debt celling

We will not deafault on our payments, the gov takes in more than enough to pay the interest on our debt.... default talk is just scaremongering


The fact that there are people who actually believe this is what I find most scary about this whole situation.
 
2013-10-14 11:11:31 AM  

odinsposse: DubtodaIll: I'm for default not because I think it will do any immediate good but that it will cause global reckoning.  Something needs to happen to jolt this nation out of the decades long cycle of continuing to spend more money than we have and creating a level of debt that is difficult to fathom.  Sure, things have worked fine under this system for a while, but the longer we attempt this mode of economics the worse the situation becomes.  I would rather see we work to fix our situation by normal means however I think that's far more impossible than the "impossibility" of the US defaulting on its full credit.  This Congress is so dysfunctional that it really brings in to question the validity of the system.  And maybe by some stroke of luck that dysfunction will force a situation where we're actually forced to face the consequences of the decisions that have been made in the past.
    I really don't know where I was going with any of this, but while a default would be an catastrophic situation, it may be what needs to happen now to ensure a survivable future.

Ah, yes the populist deficit hawk. SO concerned about our debt that they support a government shutdown that will cost us billions to undo. SO concerned that they support a default that will raise our interest rates and make our debt more expensive to service, effectively raising our debt. SO concerned that they support austerity measures that slow economic growth and thus hurt our debt to GDP ratio.

In short you can tell the populist deficit hawk from other deficit hawks because they are the only ones gullible enough to buy into ideas that directly and obviously work against their stated goal of reducing the debt.


I mean you if want to throw labels on things to make you feel better about your own positions that's fine but don't assume what I'm SO concerned about.  I just feel that if you're looking at the long-game the system we have is unsustainable in its current state.  I don't support this government shutdown.  I think it's a travesty that a nation as advanced as America is unable to have a government that can cooperate within itself.  I don't want the U.S. to default however it may be something that happens that turns out to be a positive influence on the way the country is ran. When will the debt be so big that we have to do something about it? Or that someone else does something about it? 20 trillion? 50 trillion? Where and when does it actually turn around except in a Congress that is so farked up they can't even keep the government open?  There's no better time than the present to actually put your house back in order. The only thing that has brought us to this point is the lies and denial that debt affords debtors.  The whole thing is a mess of the highest order.
 
2013-10-14 11:11:35 AM  

jst3p: itsaidwhat: ....It is your opinions as presented on this website that makes you look ignorant, malicious, selfish and dishonest, not the fact that you work for a living.


For opinions to be valid, they have to be based in fact. Otherwise, they are not opinions, they are hallucinations.
 
2013-10-14 11:12:22 AM  

AngryDragon: Detinwolf: The US dollar is the world's currency because of the world's (and American public's) faith in the US's ability to execute and its insane purchasing power.  .  Even Boner said that he would not let the US default, because even Boner, in his limited cognitive capacity, knows that the US economy is symbiotic with the world economy.  The world must have faith in the American dollar.

Even if we don't default, this could bring another credit downgrade.  That wouldn't be apocalyptic, but it certainly would have long lasting effects.

Think your student loan payments are high now?


Interesting thought. How will this affect existing student debt? I imagine the opposite. When the US dollar is worthless, people will have wheelbarrows full, making student debt easy to pay off.

Take note: This is exactly how we are going to screw over to the rest of the financial world (eg China) that we owe money too. We will repay our debt with container loads of worthless US currency. Yes, Made in America will be the new mantra because no one will export to us on credit but then again we make the wheat and we have the oil. Sure - the international money changers in NYC will get screwed. We won't have a faux cloud economy built on the Internet, cheap data, computers, texting, cell phones, electronics, etc. The true irony is how popular the national parks will again become as the populace seeks to escape the awful human mire of the future city. America will look like India. Warren Buffet was right to buy Norfolk Southern. We'll all be hanging off trains to escape the cities in decline (like Detroit).
 
2013-10-14 11:13:08 AM  
I haven't read everything in this thread but has no one stated the obvious that as long as more money flows into the Treasury than exceeds the principle and interest payments on the debt there is 0% chance of defaulting?

Also has anyone questioned the logic of "Be able to borrow more money so you can pay us with borrowed money?"

Also for tl;dr:

at this point in time the only we default on our debt without raising the debt ceiling is if we choose not to pay our debts. We have the money in our hands. We just have to reach our hands out and give the money to them
 
2013-10-14 11:13:58 AM  

SpectroBoy: VendorXeno: itsaidwhat: Obama and his libtard sycophants are equally to blame by representing the do-nothing leaches of society.

Close to 90% of the people receiving some kind of federal assistance fall into the categories of working poor, retired or disabled, including veterans and the elderly, people who put in their time. To call them do-nothing leaches [sic] is one of the lowest! most insulting and disgusting lies a person can spread about their fellow citizens. When itsaidwhat employs this lie it demonstrates him to be a dishonest, stupid, hateful human being, one of the worst of us. This is the face of the right wing now, this ignorant malice and selfish dishonesty.


nice troll, fact is they are do-nothing leaches - I would know I have roughly 50 tenants and all are on Federal assistance. Less than 25% worked their entire life, most don't even have a high school education - they worked a dead end job and did not bother to save any kind of money and now given free handouts because they didn't bother to attend career day in high school.

I have at least 10 that didn't even finish high school or have a job in over 10 years, and these are in their 40s collecting foodstamps and other assistance. Sleep well knowing your hard earned money goes to someone who refuses to pick up a shovel and do some god honest work for a days pay, instead our lovely government just hands out assistance to those who simply need to go out and earn their keep.
 
2013-10-14 11:14:01 AM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: NewportBarGuy: There is no other reserve currency.

We'll just have a much weaker one thanks to Congressional Republicans.

We all wish this, but no.
Destroying the dollar as the world's reserve currency drags the Euro into oblivion, and the healthy economies of Europe crash. The UK? Yeah, no.
Japan and China crash right along with us.
No other economy is big enough, and none is independent enough of ours that it isn't dragged down, too.
You'll have a huge panic sell-off of financial assets affecting tens of trillions in investment.
What's on the line is global financial meltdown followed by a depression that makes that of the 1930s look like a minor sad.
There is no fallback.

/That's why the whole world is becoming increasingly strident about this.


So, saying that, what are the chances that middle eastern countries would use their oil reserves to step in and create a reserve currency? Yes, an oil standard; oil is a heck of a lot more valuable than gold. I know why we went off the gold standard, but do you think a world in deep doo is going to care about the niceties? Besides, controlling the money supply controls how much of a military the US can afford. Something I know they have a keen interest in.
 
2013-10-14 11:14:44 AM  

Dimensio: RickN99: SpectroBoy: The Dem's position is "Pass a clean bill to prevent the impending disaster"
The GOP position is "No funding until we get our other demands met too."

Dems: Pass a clean bill and fund the entire government.
Obama:  We won't negotiate with the GOP about government funding until the GOP funds the entire government.
GOP:  We don't want to fund the entire government; THAT'S the issue.

GOP: We've passed bills to fund some parts of the government that we don't have an issue with.  Let's negotiate about the other parts.
Dems:  Nope. Meet 100% of our funding demands or nothing gets funded.
Obama:  Gonna veto them if they get to me.  Fund the entire government; then we'll negotiate about the funding.
GOP:  We don't want to fund the entire government; THAT'S the issue.

Currently proposed government funding levels are a direct result of Speaker John Boehner receiving "98%" of what he wanted. Current funding levels, therefore, are at Republican-desired levels.

The original Republican-passed spending bill did not change government funding levels; it served only to eliminate an existing law that they did not like, despite that law having been signed into law three years ago, surviving a Constitutional challenge and effectively surviving voter referendum when the President who championed it defeated a challenger who promised to repeal it.

Your argument is a lie and you are a liar for making it.


that's what happens when you pass a law without caring about where the money to pay for it comes from.
the money isn't there.
even the dems thing it's a bad law which is why they're granting labor unions and themselves exemptions from it.

bottom line: we as a country need to spend less money. the crux is that nobody wants to give up their own toys.
 
2013-10-14 11:14:49 AM  
SpectroBoy:

Great illustration of how the Democratic Libtard cancer will be removed from the backs of hardworking Americans.
 
2013-10-14 11:15:30 AM  

randomjsa: If you want the debt ceiling raised so badly then tell the Democrats to compromise

Once again, when two sides refuse to compromise at all standing around screaming and pointing fingers at only one of them just makes you look like an idiot.


The "both sides refuse to compromise so both are equally responsible" was the right's best play, but it isn't working.

sullydish.files.wordpress.com


But if the last election cycle taught us anything it is that once the right has decided on a strategy they stick with it regardless of it's ineffectiveness.


Good luck with that.
 
2013-10-14 11:15:33 AM  

fluffy2097: NewportBarGuy: There is no other reserve currency.

We'll just have a much weaker one thanks to Congressional Republicans.

It's Ok. We can use Zimbabwe's currency as a reserve. They printed plenty of it. Look. With a single bill from Zimbabwe we could pay off our debt's multiple times.

[i.imgur.com image 850x421]
/yes, the dollar will be valued about this much if we default.
[www.goldonomic.com image 468x351]
/what paying for a happy meal will soon look like.



Wei, mar people should think of doing this.


/Sorry
 
2013-10-14 11:15:44 AM  

This text is now purple: The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: So instead of the US losing its status in the world market gradually over the next few decades we will lose it all now. Good luck buying all your oil and other imports in euros.

We buy our oil from Canada, Mexico, and Venezuela. Do you really think they won't take dollars?


They'll darn sure take wheat.
 
2013-10-14 11:16:55 AM  

The_Original_Roxtar: that's what happens when you pass a law without caring about where the money to pay for it comes from.
the money isn't there.


Which law are you referring to?

/please say Obamacare so that I can confirm my suspicion that you have no idea what you are talking about.
 
2013-10-14 11:17:27 AM  

The_Original_Roxtar: bottom line: we as a country need to spend less money.


No we don't. Right now we should be spending money. Infrastructure, R&D, clean energy. The size of our debt is not a crisis. 5 years of 7%+ unemployment is a crisis. Fix unemployment, you'll fix revenues, you'll fix the deficit and debt. Not the other way around.
 
2013-10-14 11:19:14 AM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Joe Blowme: We will not deafault on our payments, the gov takes in more than enough to pay the interest on our debt

So the same people who (rightfully) criticize Obamacare's less-than-stellar exchange rollout now completely trust the same government to prioritize billions in debt payments. Neato.


ghare: Joe Blowme: We should just listen to what the POTUS said about raising the debt celling

We will not deafault on our payments, the gov takes in more than enough to pay the interest on our debt.... default talk is just scaremongering I really, really don't understand economics, or how the US government operates financially. In fact, I INSIST on being wrong. And I am proud of not knowing any better.

Tea Partier in a nutshell


Nightjars: Joe Blowme: We should just listen to what the POTUS said about raising the debt celling

We will not deafault on our payments, the gov takes in more than enough to pay the interest on our debt.... default talk is just scaremongering

The fact that there are people who actually believe this is what I find most scary about this whole situation.


Ok, tell me how we will default on a loan payment that say 60 billion/month out of 250billion/month income when by law that intrest has to be paid?
Did the intrest jump to more than what we take in per month?
 
2013-10-14 11:19:56 AM  

what_now: I came in here to joke about how some people are probably stupid enough to think this would be a good thing, because they don't understand how economics work and just want to stick it to the furriners, and then I saw this:

dittybopper: China, Japan, Saudi Arabia, Germany and Singapore: Raise the debt ceiling NOW, a default by the United States would have a profound effect on our economies.

So, you're saying that there would be some positive effects, then.


Congress has aptly demonstrated time and again they don't understand economics or finance and they're proud of it. The right wing circus media encourages their followers to remain ignorant and ignore any other view as "liberal propaganda," and they do so blissfully.

/you stupid Koch brothers are going to lose a ton on this one.
 
2013-10-14 11:20:51 AM  

Rindred: That's not how you cut a baby in half

Yes, it is. You have to chop from the groin - with the help of gravity - through the body. If you struck the skull, the rounded (even if not quite solid yet) skull might partially deflect the blow and cause an uneven bisection. And that wouldn't be fair.

/Metaphor is good, so long as we all agree that the liar "mom" of the story represents the Republicans
//No, Mr. Police Investigator, this post was in jest and I do not, in fact, advocate or...ouch! Easy with those cuffs!


You need a band saw to cut a baby perfectly in half.. otherwise, one party will get more baby than the other.
 
2013-10-14 11:21:03 AM  

jst3p: The_Original_Roxtar: that's what happens when you pass a law without caring about where the money to pay for it comes from.
the money isn't there.

Which law are you referring to?

/please say Obamacare so that I can confirm my suspicion that you have no idea what you are talking about.


every spending/stimulus bill ever.
 
2013-10-14 11:22:31 AM  
Sure. It's the GOP.  Everything is fine, if it weren't for them.  Will the people who believe that line up so the smart people can point and laugh at them?
 
2013-10-14 11:23:59 AM  

fluffy2097: NewportBarGuy: There is no other reserve currency.

We'll just have a much weaker one thanks to Congressional Republicans.

It's Ok. We can use Zimbabwe's currency as a reserve. They printed plenty of it. Look. With a single bill from Zimbabwe we could pay off our debt's multiple times.

[i.imgur.com image 850x421]
/yes, the dollar will be valued about this much if we default.
[www.goldonomic.com image 468x351]
/what paying for a happy meal will soon look like.


Can you imagine how much a gallon of gas will cost?
 
2013-10-14 11:24:31 AM  

Enitria: So, saying that, what are the chances that middle eastern countries would use their oil reserves to step in and create a reserve currency? Yes, an oil standard; oil is a heck of a lot more valuable than gold.


Good luck. Oil is about the exact opposite of what makes an ideal reference currency.
 
2013-10-14 11:25:11 AM  

CleanAndPure: HotIgneous Intruder: Fark_Guy_Rob: I owe hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt at ridiculous interest rates.  Much of it is immune from bankruptcy (yay - education bubble!).

Bring on the inflation.  When a loaf of bread costs 100 dollars and my annual salary is 500,000k - my debts will be a drop in the bucket.

Good plan, but I suspect interest rates will go up to match the inflation.

They certainly will...

However for many people the majority of their debt is their fixed rate mortgage.

If we have 1000% inflation...I will still be paying 3% something interest.

Typically inflation hurts the rich but is beneficial to the majority of people... that's why politicians hate it.


Yes. Inflation hurts businesses that need cash for growth. (Take note of the billions that companies like Apple, Johnson & Johnson, etc have squirreled away to insulate their cash hungry research programs from inflation.) Old people complain about inflation because "a tomato use to cost a nickel" but actually, old people have cash. And when inflation comes, cash is king. It makes selling a house difficult because their are fewer folks qualified for financing, which also keeps prices down.

Deflation is different. That's when it's good to owe money - especially if you are holding hard sellable assets. If you are only holding cash - that's bad. Gold doesn't help either. No one is eating gold. Lead is the trump commodity under deflation conditions - you can get anything you need with bullets. (That's why they have become a scarce commodity under this administration.)
 
2013-10-14 11:25:34 AM  
screw it, so what if a couple thousand people die because of the shut down, at least we didn't have to raise taxes on millionaires to balance the budget.  I mean, do you have any idea how many millionaires die each year because they are taxed?  I mean, if some 40 year old is a deadbeat, his or her kids deserve to die, If they don't like it, maybe they shouldn't have decided to be born.  They can get jobs, I mean, there aren't any labor laws for 6 year old kids right?  I hear they make great miners.
 
2013-10-14 11:25:35 AM  

NewportBarGuy: theorellior: NewportBarGuy: There is no other reserve currency.

Said the British seventy years ago.

They lost their entire f*cing empire. We have not. We will not. We'll just have a damaged reputation, the second largest economy, and the world's largest military. None of that will change with a breach of the debt ceiling because it is not permanent.



Am das Endet ist unser Sieg!  Berlin bleibt Deutsch!  Exceptionalismus!
 
2013-10-14 11:27:05 AM  

Joe Blowme: Ok, tell me how we will default on a loan payment that say 60 billion/month out of 250billion/month income when by law that intrest has to be paid?


1. It's illegal
2. It's also impossible
3. The timing doesn't work
4. Prioritization doesn't solve the problem

Link
 
2013-10-14 11:28:13 AM  

Director_Mr: If you are blaming one side any more than the other you aren't paying attention.


Oh, bless your heart.
 
2013-10-14 11:28:27 AM  

The_Original_Roxtar: jst3p: The_Original_Roxtar: that's what happens when you pass a law without caring about where the money to pay for it comes from.
the money isn't there.

Which law are you referring to?

/please say Obamacare so that I can confirm my suspicion that you have no idea what you are talking about.

every spending/stimulus bill ever.


The deficit is shrinking.

images.bwbx.io

We are spending less:

moneymorning.com


The problem is being addressed, what is your problem with this?
 
2013-10-14 11:28:28 AM  
I predict nothing will happen. Obummer will put on his cape and stand at the Capital Hill entrance.
The wind will catch the cape and flutter and the decider will pull something out of his butt to end it all.
 
2013-10-14 11:29:37 AM  

Bit'O'Gristle: I'm no economist, but isn't our dollar value based and backed up by the gold in fort knox? Or am i mistaken.  Anyone?


The US dollar is not backed by gold. it's backed by "the full faith and credit of the United States of America", which USED to be absolute. But republicans are now whacking it with a stick hoping candy comes out.
 
2013-10-14 11:30:43 AM  

RickN99: SpectroBoy: The Dem's position is "Pass a clean bill to prevent the impending disaster"
The GOP position is "No funding until we get our other demands met too."

Dems: Pass a clean bill and fund the entire government.
Obama:  We won't negotiate with the GOP about government funding until the GOP funds the entire government.
GOP:  We don't want to fund the entire government; THAT'S the issue.

GOP: We've passed bills to fund some parts of the government that we don't have an issue with.  Let's negotiate about the other parts.
Dems:  Nope. Meet 100% of our funding demands or nothing gets funded.
Obama:  Gonna veto them if they get to me.  Fund the entire government; then we'll negotiate about the funding.
GOP:  We don't want to fund the entire government; THAT'S the issue.


Would YOU want to set a precedent where if a minority in Congress wants something, they should simply hold hostage the American economy and well-being to do so?  I certainly would not.
 
2013-10-14 11:30:45 AM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Joe Blowme: Ok, tell me how we will default on a loan payment that say 60 billion/month out of 250billion/month income when by law that intrest has to be paid?

1. It's illegal
2. It's also impossible
3. The timing doesn't work
4. Prioritization doesn't solve the problem

Link


 One form this takes is the patently absurd remarks of Rep. Ted Yoho (R-Fla.)

This yahoo's name is really Yoho? As in "You only Herp once! Then you Derp!"?
 
2013-10-14 11:36:28 AM  

Ambivalence: Bit'O'Gristle: I'm no economist, but isn't our dollar value based and backed up by the gold in fort knox? Or am i mistaken.  Anyone?

The US dollar is not backed by gold. it's backed by "the full faith and credit of the United States of America", which USED to be absolute. But republicans are now whacking it with a stick hoping candy comes out.


I lol'd.
 
2013-10-14 11:36:51 AM  
Cruz is most powerful man in universe...
 
2013-10-14 11:37:35 AM  
I love how this is all working out exactly as I predicted.
 
2013-10-14 11:40:31 AM  

brnt00: itsaidwhat: Obama and his libtard sycophants are equally to blame by representing the do-nothing leaches of society.

I laughed when POTUS nazi'd the national parks and bank rolled his NPR media. What a joke to all of us that work for a living and don't have the time to waste gawking at a tree or a giant hole in the ground. And to the veterans regarding closed memorials - I don't need to stare at a monolith to be reminded of their sacrifice - I see that in everything that I am free and able to enjoy all around me. I and my freedom are not victim to any so-called shutdown.

When a "government shutdown" still leaves 83% of the (bottom feeding) public servants at work, then we have real problem with entitlements at the top and the bottom of society.

And to the foreigners afraid of our debt ceiling, you are welcome - to the financial shelter and stability our American enterprise has afforded you under your own years of tribunal unrest. Suck it up.


This is good. Even sneaked in a Godwin. A bit forceful for my taste, but you've got raw talent kid.  Refine the presentation and you'll be thread shaitting in no time!


Thank you. But I'm not trolling - because no one is paying me to do that - which I suspect is not the case for some Farkers. I doing what they call "venting". I can't take time from my busy work schedule to drive a tractor trailer thru DC or sleep in a park for an indefinite period / non-specific issue. But I can rant on Fark with the best of them. Don't cost nothin.
 
2013-10-14 11:40:42 AM  

Enitria: demaL-demaL-yeH: NewportBarGuy: There is no other reserve currency.

We'll just have a much weaker one thanks to Congressional Republicans.

We all wish this, but no.
Destroying the dollar as the world's reserve currency drags the Euro into oblivion, and the healthy economies of Europe crash. The UK? Yeah, no.
Japan and China crash right along with us.
No other economy is big enough, and none is independent enough of ours that it isn't dragged down, too.
You'll have a huge panic sell-off of financial assets affecting tens of trillions in investment.
What's on the line is global financial meltdown followed by a depression that makes that of the 1930s look like a minor sad.
There is no fallback.

/That's why the whole world is becoming increasingly strident about this.

So, saying that, what are the chances that middle eastern countries would use their oil reserves to step in and create a reserve currency? Yes, an oil standard; oil is a heck of a lot more valuable than gold. I know why we went off the gold standard, but do you think a world in deep doo is going to care about the niceties? Besides, controlling the money supply controls how much of a military the US can afford. Something I know they have a keen interest in.


Zero. Because this:
upload.wikimedia.org
This.

And this.
 
2013-10-14 11:40:59 AM  
www.angryflower.com
 
2013-10-14 11:43:46 AM  

This text is now purple: Enitria: So, saying that, what are the chances that middle eastern countries would use their oil reserves to step in and create a reserve currency? Yes, an oil standard; oil is a heck of a lot more valuable than gold.

Good luck. Oil is about the exact opposite of what makes an ideal reference currency.


And that, too.
 
2013-10-14 11:44:01 AM  

ajgeek: SpectroBoy: itsaidwhat: Obama derpityderpityderp.

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 600x682]

That one is so much better than my attempt to make the background black. Thanks for that.

Totally unrelated to what Spectroboy gave me. I admit I have no idea why the debt ceiling MUST BE RAISED or we automatically default. Best guess is that the debt ceiling must be raised because inflation which is on average 3% per year. I also know that fiat currency is also, effectively, debt.

Query: Would the US defaulting start a new World War? Is it possible that the people in charge want a war because of what it did to our economy last time?


The US default would not start a world war. HOWEVER there will be a revolt in the neighnorhood Walmart when the EBT cards stop working permanently.

"They have no bread? Let them eat Little Debbie Cakes!!" - said the honorable senator from the great state of Arkansas.
 
2013-10-14 11:44:09 AM  

www.truthdig.com



cdn2-b.examiner.com



www.wwrl1600.com

 
2013-10-14 11:44:15 AM  

Director_Mr: If you are blaming one side any more than the other you aren't paying attention.


Both sides are equally at fault, right?
 
2013-10-14 11:44:16 AM  

Elroydb: I haven't read everything in this thread but has no one stated the obvious that as long as more money flows into the Treasury than exceeds the principle and interest payments on the debt there is 0% chance of defaulting?

Also has anyone questioned the logic of "Be able to borrow more money so you can pay us with borrowed money?"

Also for tl;dr:

at this point in time the only we default on our debt without raising the debt ceiling is if we choose not to pay our debts. We have the money in our hands. We just have to reach our hands out and give the money to them


The Treasury department writes millions of checks per day. It's automated. They've already said that they have absolutely no way to prioritize what debts to pay and what debts not to pay. They literally can't just write checks for treasury bond interest and/or pick other debts to pay or not pay.

Besides that, do you really want to be in a situation where SS checks aren't sent out, government contracts aren't paid, and many millions of people don't get the wages owed to them because they're working on contracts for the federal govt or working as part of the supply chain for people and companies doing govt contracts? It would be catastrophic.
 
2013-10-14 11:44:38 AM  

AeAe: Nabb1: This is just insane.

The farking GOP, man.  Bunch of assholes.


F and U

The Democrats are Hell demon spawn Satan uses to directly destroy Mankind through corruption, death, lies and every form of sin ever known, and they will take down the USA until we become trash heap dwellers like Manila without whimsey.

The Republican Party began as Progressives.

Try not to be a simpleton carrying the water for fools and men of no honor.
 
2013-10-14 11:47:04 AM  

Potter82: Director_Mr: If you are blaming one side any more than the other you aren't paying attention.

No, people like you are the ones who are not paying attention. To say that the Democrats are as much to blame as the Republicans for creating this crisis is completely dishonest and/or lazy.


Exactly!! The Democrats are currently the majority. That makes it mostly their fault. Or do you subscribe to the theory that minorities are to blame for America's problem (that's racist)?
 
2013-10-14 11:47:12 AM  

Clemkadidlefark: AeAe: Nabb1: This is just insane.

The farking GOP, man.  Bunch of assholes.

F and U

The Democrats are Hell demon spawn Satan uses to directly destroy Mankind through corruption, death, lies and every form of sin ever known, and they will take down the USA until we become trash heap dwellers like Manila without whimsey.

The Republican Party began as Progressives.

Try not to be a simpleton carrying the water for fools and men of no honor.


24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-10-14 11:47:52 AM  

moefuggenbrew: An attempt to "compromise" by keeping the government open as long as we eliminate funding that would provide all Americans with healthcare.


And they talk about Republicans "lying". How does this law "provide" all Americans with healthcare? Simply, it requires that all Americans PURCHASE healthcare insurance. Therefore, it  PROVIDES nothing.
 
2013-10-14 11:49:57 AM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Joe Blowme: Ok, tell me how we will default on a loan payment that say 60 billion/month out of 250billion/month income when by law that intrest has to be paid?

1. It's illegal
2. It's also impossible
3. The timing doesn't work
4. Prioritization doesn't solve the problem

Link


Section 4 of the 14th amendment makes it legal.
 
2013-10-14 11:50:25 AM  

ZurkisPhreek: Hmmm... if this plays out right (or wrong, however you wish to view it), WW3 will be fought with money?


It will be started with data - 0's and 1's and escalate to land grabs and the movement (shipping) of natural resources.
 
2013-10-14 11:53:04 AM  

Joe Blowme: Section 4 of the 14th amendment makes it legal.


Great. It's still impossible.
 
2013-10-14 11:53:26 AM  

SpectroBoy: RickN99: GOP:  We don't want to fund the entire government; THAT'S the issue.

You proved my point. It is the GOP and only the GOP that is not funding the government at this point. It is THEIR FAULT. It is not a "both sides are bad" issue.

Thanks for backing me up.


It's not the GOP but rather America that's not "buying" the crap that Democrats want to serve up as "essential government". Getting a majority and passing shiat laws only works if you can enforce them. That's why the political war is now on with the IRS.
 
2013-10-14 11:55:24 AM  

PC LOAD LETTER: someone has zero idea how global economics actually works.


I didn't say it wouldn't affect the economy.
I said that leaders don't care about the outcomes more than their own standing.

There are things they can do to prevent a trainwreck, but they don't seem particularly concerned about that anymore than they are about preventing famines in Africa or saving civilians in Syria.

As a result we get alot of lip service but no action.
Everyone wants to blame the other guy when anyone could have resolved the problem.
 
2013-10-14 11:58:06 AM  

Dimensio: RickN99: SpectroBoy: The Dem's position is "Pass a clean bill to prevent the impending disaster"
The GOP position is "No funding until we get our other demands met too."

Dems: Pass a clean bill and fund the entire government.
Obama:  We won't negotiate with the GOP about government funding until the GOP funds the entire government.
GOP:  We don't want to fund the entire government; THAT'S the issue.

GOP: We've passed bills to fund some parts of the government that we don't have an issue with.  Let's negotiate about the other parts.
Dems:  Nope. Meet 100% of our funding demands or nothing gets funded.
Obama:  Gonna veto them if they get to me.  Fund the entire government; then we'll negotiate about the funding.
GOP:  We don't want to fund the entire government; THAT'S the issue.

Currently proposed government funding levels are a direct result of Speaker John Boehner receiving "98%" of what he wanted. Current funding levels, therefore, are at Republican-desired levels.

The original Republican-passed spending bill did not change government funding levels; it served only to eliminate an existing law that they did not like, despite that law having been signed into law three years ago, surviving a Constitutional challenge and effectively surviving voter referendum when the President who championed it defeated a challenger who promised to repeal it.

Your argument is a lie and you are a liar for making it.


"You (Libtard Santa Claus and your free money give-away-world policies) sit on a throne of lies!"
 
2013-10-14 11:59:12 AM  

Richard C Stanford: Who cares about them thar furriner places. What, a bunch a squinty-eyed commies, weird cartoon watching commies, terrorists, commie nazis, and what ever the hell a Singapore is. I don't know where that is, and real 'Muricans don't! We care about 'Murica and tossing General El Presidente Hussian Commie Osama Fartbongo Obammy outta the WHITE house.
Kin I get a cheer for willful ignorance!


Sure, I'll cheer for you. "Cheers!"
 
2013-10-14 12:00:36 PM  

jst3p: The_Original_Roxtar: jst3p: The_Original_Roxtar: that's what happens when you pass a law without caring about where the money to pay for it comes from.
the money isn't there.

Which law are you referring to?

/please say Obamacare so that I can confirm my suspicion that you have no idea what you are talking about.

every spending/stimulus bill ever.

The deficit is shrinking.

[images.bwbx.io image 630x420]

We are spending less:

[moneymorning.com image 590x437]


The problem is being addressed, what is your problem with this?


we haven't had a balanced budget since Clinton was in office. Also, listing all your stats as a percentage of GDP is a bit misleading.
 
2013-10-14 12:00:58 PM  

itsaidwhat: Dimensio: RickN99: SpectroBoy: The Dem's position is "Pass a clean bill to prevent the impending disaster"
The GOP position is "No funding until we get our other demands met too."

Dems: Pass a clean bill and fund the entire government.
Obama:  We won't negotiate with the GOP about government funding until the GOP funds the entire government.
GOP:  We don't want to fund the entire government; THAT'S the issue.

GOP: We've passed bills to fund some parts of the government that we don't have an issue with.  Let's negotiate about the other parts.
Dems:  Nope. Meet 100% of our funding demands or nothing gets funded.
Obama:  Gonna veto them if they get to me.  Fund the entire government; then we'll negotiate about the funding.
GOP:  We don't want to fund the entire government; THAT'S the issue.

Currently proposed government funding levels are a direct result of Speaker John Boehner receiving "98%" of what he wanted. Current funding levels, therefore, are at Republican-desired levels.

The original Republican-passed spending bill did not change government funding levels; it served only to eliminate an existing law that they did not like, despite that law having been signed into law three years ago, surviving a Constitutional challenge and effectively surviving voter referendum when the President who championed it defeated a challenger who promised to repeal it.

Your argument is a lie and you are a liar for making it.

"You (Libtard Santa Claus and your free money give-away-world policies) sit on a throne of lies!"


You do your arguments a disservice using such idiotic pejoratives like "libtard". This is why no one takes your side seriously.
 
2013-10-14 12:02:17 PM  
Well, that's my ignore list nicely updated. Now what? Shall I catch up on my stories on Hulu?
 
2013-10-14 12:02:28 PM  

CleanAndPure: However for many people the majority of their debt is their fixed rate mortgage.

If we have 1000% inflation...I will still be paying 3% something interest.


"Leaving the banks full of worthless paper."  Which is why the rest of the world doesn't do fixed rate mortgages.

Unfortunately, ARM's have made a comeback since 2008, as has the practice of lenders trying to get people to take out mortgages they will not be able to pay off so they can sell the mortgages to someone else, and the practice of bundling up these odious debts into financial "products".  Maybe America doesn't deserve to ever come out of this recession.
 
2013-10-14 12:04:42 PM  

way south: The reality is both sides are self serving wenches that really don't care what happens so long as they "win".


THIS RIGHT HYAR. They're more concerned about how their statements and talking points will "poll" than with architecting a rational solution to this mess.

/Which, as I said elsewhere, sucks diarrheal ass.
 
2013-10-14 12:05:06 PM  
Misconduc:nice troll, fact is they are do-nothing leaches - I would know I have roughly 50 tenants and all are on Federal assistance. Less than 25% worked their entire life, most don't even have a high school education - they worked a dead end job and did not bother to save any kind of money and now given free handouts because they didn't bother to attend career day in high school.

I have at least 10 that didn't even finish high school or have a job in over 10 years, and these are in their 40s collecting foodstamps and other assistance. Sleep well knowing your hard earned money goes to someone who refuses to pick up a shovel and do some god honest work for a days pay, instead our lovely government just hands out assistance to those who simply need to go out and earn their keep.


Nice, except you forgot to tell us about your supermodel GF, your five advanced degrees, needing to get to the gym in 26 minutes, etc.
 
2013-10-14 12:06:13 PM  
In other news, has anyone signed up on healthcare.gov yet? Anybody?
 
2013-10-14 12:06:22 PM  

Clemkadidlefark: AeAe: Nabb1: This is just insane.

The farking GOP, man.  Bunch of assholes.

F and U

The Democrats are Hell demon spawn Satan uses to directly destroy Mankind through corruption, death, lies and every form of sin ever known, and they will take down the USA until we become trash heap dwellers like Manila without whimsey.

The Republican Party began as Progressives.

Try not to be a simpleton carrying the water for fools and men of no honor.


What is this?  Satire?

// Good job?
 
2013-10-14 12:06:35 PM  

flondrix: CleanAndPure: However for many people the majority of their debt is their fixed rate mortgage.

If we have 1000% inflation...I will still be paying 3% something interest.

"Leaving the banks full of worthless paper."  Which is why the rest of the world doesn't do fixed rate mortgages.

Unfortunately, ARM's have made a comeback since 2008, as has the practice of lenders trying to get people to take out mortgages they will not be able to pay off so they can sell the mortgages to someone else, and the practice of bundling up these odious debts into financial "products".  Maybe America doesn't deserve to ever come out of this recession.


I never understood why anyone would think an adjustable interest rate is a good idea. The rate goes up (and probably higher than is affordable) and you get hosed.
 
2013-10-14 12:08:18 PM  

The_Original_Roxtar: we haven't had a balanced budget since Clinton was in office. Also, listing all your stats as a percentage of GDP is a bit misleading.


Why?
 
2013-10-14 12:08:40 PM  

Clemkadidlefark: The Republican Party began as Progressives.


If you think Abe Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt wouldn't take massive dumps on what passes for today's GOP, you don't know sh*t about history.
 
2013-10-14 12:09:06 PM  

The_Original_Roxtar: jst3p: The_Original_Roxtar: jst3p: The_Original_Roxtar: that's what happens when you pass a law without caring about where the money to pay for it comes from.
the money isn't there.

Which law are you referring to?

/please say Obamacare so that I can confirm my suspicion that you have no idea what you are talking about.

every spending/stimulus bill ever.

The deficit is shrinking.

[images.bwbx.io image 630x420]

We are spending less:

[moneymorning.com image 590x437]


The problem is being addressed, what is your problem with this?

we haven't had a balanced budget since Clinton was in office.

I

agree that we need to work to that goal, but if we get there too quickly it causes more problems than it solves. Cutting spending increases unemployment. Our recovery is pretty fragile and the sequester has already caused us to miss out on some of the economic growth we should have realized:
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/06/14/2161921/imf-says-automat ic -austerity-is-wrecking-us-economic-growth/

In my opinion, Also the Go P knows this. The pretend to champion "fiscal responsibility" but what they really want is for the economy to falter so they can pin it on Obama.

Also, listing all your stats as a percentage of GDP is a bit misleading.

As a percentage of GDP is the only measure that matters. Any other way lacks context.

Have you ever taken a macroecon class?
 
2013-10-14 12:09:10 PM  

Ambivalence: GORDON: I remember when Bush was evil and the President was expected to work with a Congress of the other political party, not the other way around.  But, then, that was like 8 years ago.  Times are different now.

Yes, because democrats threatened a shutdown and default under bush. Oh and threatened to impeach.

Or not.

False equivalence is false.


I remember when democrats said Bush couldn't possibly be American because he was black. Bush must have been born in Kenya... in the bush perhaps.
 
2013-10-14 12:09:41 PM  

you have pee hands: The_Original_Roxtar: we haven't had a balanced budget since Clinton was in office. Also, listing all your stats as a percentage of GDP is a bit misleading.

Why?


Because he went to a top 5 school. Where is that guy that can explain it in coconuts?
 
2013-10-14 12:12:37 PM  

you have pee hands: itsaidwhat: Libtard. Look at the numbers. Entitlements are killing America. Wealthy taking social security, abled taking disability, creating children where no family exists to raise them. And before you put a face on my opinions (you racist) be aware that I welcome people of all colors, national origin, religion and sexual orientation to join me on the work line to support "the working poor". You have no idea how I made it to where I am but it starts with self respect and respect for others - including their beliefs and their property. When libtards seek to take away either, they will meet with the harsh reality of my rights. Yes, please - face me - and tell me you deserve what I have earned. You will get what my conscience thinks you deserve.

You might not be racist but you're certainly lacking in perspective and incapable of empathy, and you're also parroting taking points that were debunked in the 80s.


Which 80's. 1980's? 1880's? 1480's. Self-reliance has never been debunked. As far as empathy, your opinion/perspective is not the yardstick of my empathy. Fark is full of words and devoid of action. No one on Fark is helping anyone that really needs help. It's not a substitute for feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless, aiding the sick, etc. So don't fool yourself into thinking that you are forwarding the great cause of humanity here by preaching the evils of success. You just look like a tool of the current administration. And don't you have a Healthcare Navigator Job to get to?
 
2013-10-14 12:13:26 PM  

pxlboy: I never understood why anyone would think an adjustable interest rate is a good idea. The rate goes up (and probably higher than is affordable) and you get hosed.


Not everyone. We will be able to pay off our house in five years, so we got 5/2 ARM, based on a 30 year loan, at  anout 2.75%, substantially below what conventional mortgages are costing. Make double payments every month and the principal drops fast. We'll never see the 2-point increase.
 
2013-10-14 12:16:39 PM  

you have pee hands: The_Original_Roxtar: we haven't had a balanced budget since Clinton was in office. Also, listing all your stats as a percentage of GDP is a bit misleading.

Why?


jst3p: Also, listing all your stats as a percentage of GDP is a bit misleading.

As a percentage of GDP is the only measure that matters. Any other way lacks context.

Have you ever taken a macroecon class?


A.) because the federal government does not own all of the GDP
B.) because some federal spending contributes to GDP
listing with federal spending per capita and as a percentage of federal tax revenue gives a more complete picture.
 
2013-10-14 12:17:21 PM  

Speaker2Animals: pxlboy: I never understood why anyone would think an adjustable interest rate is a good idea. The rate goes up (and probably higher than is affordable) and you get hosed.

Not everyone. We will be able to pay off our house in five years, so we got 5/2 ARM, based on a 30 year loan, at  anout 2.75%, substantially below what conventional mortgages are costing. Make double payments every month and the principal drops fast. We'll never see the 2-point increase.


Do payment lapses increase the rate or is it something else?
 
2013-10-14 12:18:05 PM  
DubtodaIll: I mean you if want to throw labels on things to make you feel better about your own positions that's fine but don't assume what I'm SO concerned about.

Will do!

I don't want the U.S. to default however it may be something that happens that turns out to be a positive influence on the way the country is ran.

And this is why.The idea that defaulting does anything useful is absolutely foolish. It has nothing to do with resolving our political issues regarding the budget especially if there are groups of people who think it's a good idea.

When will the debt be so big that we have to do something about it? 20 trillion? 50 trillion?

Not for a long time. Debt is not inherently bad and big numbers don't mean anything. If our country has a GDP of 500 trillion then a debt of 50 trillion is inconsequential.
 
2013-10-14 12:18:49 PM  

pxlboy: I never understood why anyone would think an adjustable interest rate is a good idea. The rate goes up (and probably higher than is affordable) and you get hosed.


imgc.allpostersimages.com
 
2013-10-14 12:18:49 PM  
just keep the reckoning away a few more years ... ME degree with math minor and inventions in the wings

/good job not around here....
 
2013-10-14 12:19:27 PM  

itsaidwhat: Dimensio: RickN99: SpectroBoy: The Dem's position is "Pass a clean bill to prevent the impending disaster"
The GOP position is "No funding until we get our other demands met too."

Dems: Pass a clean bill and fund the entire government.
Obama:  We won't negotiate with the GOP about government funding until the GOP funds the entire government.
GOP:  We don't want to fund the entire government; THAT'S the issue.

GOP: We've passed bills to fund some parts of the government that we don't have an issue with.  Let's negotiate about the other parts.
Dems:  Nope. Meet 100% of our funding demands or nothing gets funded.
Obama:  Gonna veto them if they get to me.  Fund the entire government; then we'll negotiate about the funding.
GOP:  We don't want to fund the entire government; THAT'S the issue.

Currently proposed government funding levels are a direct result of Speaker John Boehner receiving "98%" of what he wanted. Current funding levels, therefore, are at Republican-desired levels.

The original Republican-passed spending bill did not change government funding levels; it served only to eliminate an existing law that they did not like, despite that law having been signed into law three years ago, surviving a Constitutional challenge and effectively surviving voter referendum when the President who championed it defeated a challenger who promised to repeal it.

Your argument is a lie and you are a liar for making it.

"You (Libtard Santa Claus and your free money give-away-world policies) sit on a throne of lies!"


And smells like beef and cheese
 
2013-10-14 12:21:04 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Joe Blowme: Section 4 of the 14th amendment makes it legal.

Great. It's still impossible.


no, its not.
 
2013-10-14 12:22:40 PM  

Joe Blowme: no, its not.


Hard to know who to believe here. The IG of the Treasury or Some Guy On The Internet Because He Says So. Tough call.
 
2013-10-14 12:24:49 PM  

Speaker2Animals: Clemkadidlefark: The Republican Party began as Progressives.

If you think Abe Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt wouldn't take massive dumps on what passes for today's GOP, you don't know sh*t about history.


woah there big shooter, i believe it was Hoover who had strange sex fetishes like you are describing
 
2013-10-14 12:25:32 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Joe Blowme: no, its not.

Hard to know who to believe here. The IG of the Treasury or Some Guy On The Internet Because He Says So. Tough call.


well, i did stay at a Holliday Inn last night
 
2013-10-14 12:27:43 PM  

pxlboy: Speaker2Animals: pxlboy: I never understood why anyone would think an adjustable interest rate is a good idea. The rate goes up (and probably higher than is affordable) and you get hosed.

Not everyone. We will be able to pay off our house in five years, so we got 5/2 ARM, based on a 30 year loan, at  anout 2.75%, substantially below what conventional mortgages are costing. Make double payments every month and the principal drops fast. We'll never see the 2-point increase.

Do payment lapses increase the rate or is it something else?


No, what the 5/2 means is the rate is frozen for five years at which point it can adjust upwards by a maximum of two points. My meaning was that we'll have it paid off before that happens.
 
2013-10-14 12:27:54 PM  
Oh shiat. I better buy that big TV that I deserve but can't afford now instead of later.
 
2013-10-14 12:30:40 PM  

Speaker2Animals: pxlboy: Speaker2Animals: pxlboy: I never understood why anyone would think an adjustable interest rate is a good idea. The rate goes up (and probably higher than is affordable) and you get hosed.

Not everyone. We will be able to pay off our house in five years, so we got 5/2 ARM, based on a 30 year loan, at  anout 2.75%, substantially below what conventional mortgages are costing. Make double payments every month and the principal drops fast. We'll never see the 2-point increase.

Do payment lapses increase the rate or is it something else?

No, what the 5/2 means is the rate is frozen for five years at which point it can adjust upwards by a maximum of two points. My meaning was that we'll have it paid off before that happens.


Oh, okay. Good on you for it.
 
2013-10-14 12:31:02 PM  
Republicans are so f*cking stupid. It's amazing what you morons will do to try to repeal the will of the American people.
 
2013-10-14 12:31:18 PM  

AeAe: Both sides are equally at fault, right?


How are they not?

Lets pretend for a moment that this is not terrorism or a hostage situation, there are no guns to anyones head and no suicide bombs, and that this is not a die hard movie or some fantastical battle of good VS evil.

For this one example, let us look at this like two angry business partners in a room who are shouting at each other, but they need to reach a deal.   One cannot have the other one arrested or thrown out or legally killed.  Maybe one can be voted out of his seat but that option is months down the road. They've brought a bunch of random spectators in to fill the room, but none of them can really do anything but add to the shouting.

A deal must still be reached between the partners and it must be reached now.
If neither side bends then, yes, it is both their faults.

Both of them have put petty wants ahead of the businesses needs.
Maybe one shouldn't have had as much say as he did, maybe the particular deal they are arguing over was a bad idea from the start, but in the end its a trivial difference.  Either they find a way to work together or they don't.

All of the snickering from the peanut gallery doesn't mean much unless people with means become directlyinvolved at the table.
 
2013-10-14 12:33:45 PM  

jst3p: itsaidwhat: VendorXeno: itsaidwhat: Obama and his libtard sycophants are equally to blame by representing the do-nothing leaches of society.

Close to 90% of the people receiving some kind of federal assistance fall into the categories of working poor, retired or disabled, including veterans and the elderly, people who put in their time. To call them do-nothing leaches [sic] is one of the lowest! most insulting and disgusting lies a person can spread about their fellow citizens. When itsaidwhat employs this lie it demonstrates him to be a dishonest, stupid, hateful human being, one of the worst of us. This is the face of the right wing now, this ignorant malice and selfish dishonesty.

Yes. I work for a living. That makes me ignorant, malicious, selfish and dishonest.

I am rubber, you are glue...

It is your opinions as presented on this website that makes you look ignorant, malicious, selfish and dishonest, not the fact that you work for a living.


Funny, it's because I work for a living, opinions like yours are irrelevant and always will be.
 
2013-10-14 12:37:34 PM  

The_Original_Roxtar: you have pee hands: The_Original_Roxtar: we haven't had a balanced budget since Clinton was in office. Also, listing all your stats as a percentage of GDP is a bit misleading.

Why?

jst3p: Also, listing all your stats as a percentage of GDP is a bit misleading.

As a percentage of GDP is the only measure that matters. Any other way lacks context.

Have you ever taken a macroecon class?

A.) because the federal government does not own all of the GDP
B.) because some federal spending contributes to GDP
listing with federal spending per capita and as a percentage of federal tax revenue gives a more complete picture.


www.mygovcost.org

One of those is improving too, I can't find the data for the other (although I didn't spend much time looking).

In short, we are working on it but these things can't get fixed overnight.
 
2013-10-14 12:38:30 PM  

itsaidwhat: jst3p: itsaidwhat: VendorXeno: itsaidwhat: Obama and his libtard sycophants are equally to blame by representing the do-nothing leaches of society.

Close to 90% of the people receiving some kind of federal assistance fall into the categories of working poor, retired or disabled, including veterans and the elderly, people who put in their time. To call them do-nothing leaches [sic] is one of the lowest! most insulting and disgusting lies a person can spread about their fellow citizens. When itsaidwhat employs this lie it demonstrates him to be a dishonest, stupid, hateful human being, one of the worst of us. This is the face of the right wing now, this ignorant malice and selfish dishonesty.

Yes. I work for a living. That makes me ignorant, malicious, selfish and dishon