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(CNN)   China, Japan, Saudi Arabia, Germany and Singapore: Raise the debt ceiling NOW, a default by the United States would have a profound effect on our economies. This GOP scheme is going to tank the dollar as the world reserve currency   (money.cnn.com) divider line 507
    More: Interesting, United States, Saudi Arabia, Japan, Singapore, Americanize, action alert, Christine Lagarde, reserve currency  
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6852 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Oct 2013 at 9:16 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-14 10:06:57 AM  
ME

Dammit.
 
2013-10-14 10:07:26 AM  
So why even have a debt ceiling if it is not going to be observed?

BTW Senator Obama voted not to increase it in 2006 when exact same situation came up.

No hypocrisy like liberal hypocrisy.
 
2013-10-14 10:08:09 AM  

way south: If the world really wanted to see a solution then they'd have Putin call the white house and negotiate a settlement. They'd drag both party leaders into a room at the UN and give them a stern talking to.
This chiding is just so other leaders can score points of their own. They couldn't care less if we default.


www.reactionface.info

way south: So, yes, there might be a silver lining to this. Famines and wars aside.


I hope you have some dried beans and a reverse osmosis still in with all those guns.
 
2013-10-14 10:08:41 AM  

way south: dittybopper: China, Japan, Saudi Arabia, Germany and Singapore: Raise the debt ceiling NOW, a default by the United States would have a profound effect on our economies.

So, you're saying that there would be some positive effects, then.

Depends on how you define positive...


[img.fark.net image 502x640]

The illusion is that we've got one party that is obstinate and another that is reasonable.  One that cares only for its own glory and one that loves us and wants to save the nation and the world we support.
 The reality is both sides are self serving wenches that really don't care what happens so long as they "win".

If the world really wanted to see a solution then they'd have Putin call the white house and negotiate a settlement. They'd drag both party leaders into a room at the UN and give them a stern talking to.
This chiding is just so other leaders can score points of their own. They couldn't care less if we default.

Politics is a game for our emotions, not a method of leadership. It can't be trusted to run a bank.
To which a default would be "positive" in a sense that, as a planet, we would be forced to rethink what debt means and how it should be managed. We would stop allowing blame to cover for poor leadership skills, and stop seeing grandstanding as a symbol of strength.People would pay more attention to the fine print than the headlines.

So, yes, there might be a silver lining to this. Famines and wars aside.

/A small fire now is sometimes better than a big one later.
/altho it would be best to avoid both entirely.


Say, who was that guy that used to post derpitude and pictures that were directly opposite of the derpitude?  Those were always fun to have around.
 
2013-10-14 10:09:16 AM  

Testiclaw: DON'T STAND SO CLOSE TO MD


What's wrong with Maryland?
 
2013-10-14 10:09:32 AM  

MilesTeg: So why even have a debt ceiling if it is not going to be observed?


No reason. There is no reason to have one.

MilesTeg: BTW Senator Obama voted not to increase it in 2006 when exact same situation came up.


Now you're getting it! The debt limit is an arbitrary number whose only purpose is to be used as a partisan hammer when the other guy's party is in the White House. It should be abolished. Bring back the Gephardt rule.
 
2013-10-14 10:10:14 AM  

itsaidwhat: Obama and his libtard sycophants are equally to blame by representing the do-nothing leaches of society.


Close to 90% of the people receiving some kind of federal assistance fall into the categories of working poor, retired or disabled, including veterans and the elderly, people who put in their time. To call them do-nothing leaches [sic] is one of the lowest! most insulting and disgusting lies a person can spread about their fellow citizens. When itsaidwhat employs this lie it demonstrates him to be a dishonest, stupid, hateful human being, one of the worst of us. This is the face of the right wing now, this ignorant malice and selfish dishonesty.
 
2013-10-14 10:10:54 AM  
The US dollar is the world's currency because of the world's (and American public's) faith in the US's ability to execute and its insane purchasing power.  .  Even Boner said that he would not let the US default, because even Boner, in his limited cognitive capacity, knows that the US economy is symbiotic with the world economy.  The world must have faith in the American dollar.
 
2013-10-14 10:11:04 AM  

Director_Mr: If you are blaming one side any more than the other you aren't paying attention.


No, people like you are the ones who are not paying attention. To say that the Democrats are as much to blame as the Republicans for creating this crisis is completely dishonest and/or lazy.
 
2013-10-14 10:12:01 AM  

MilesTeg: So why even have a debt ceiling if it is not going to be observed?
BTW Senator Obama voted not to increase it in 2006 when exact same situation came up.
No hypocrisy like liberal hypocrisy.



No ignorance like both-sides-are-bad ignorance.

Yeah, that was a hell of a long shutdown and near-default we had back in '06, wasn't it?  The world economy was just all a-flutter.
 
2013-10-14 10:12:34 AM  
I really hate farking autocorrect.
 
2013-10-14 10:12:38 AM  

SpectroBoy: The Dem's position is "Pass a clean bill to prevent the impending disaster"
The GOP position is "No funding until we get our other demands met too."


Dems: Pass a clean bill and fund the entire government.
Obama:  We won't negotiate with the GOP about government funding until the GOP funds the entire government.
GOP:  We don't want to fund the entire government; THAT'S the issue.

GOP: We've passed bills to fund some parts of the government that we don't have an issue with.  Let's negotiate about the other parts.
Dems:  Nope. Meet 100% of our funding demands or nothing gets funded.
Obama:  Gonna veto them if they get to me.  Fund the entire government; then we'll negotiate about the funding.
GOP:  We don't want to fund the entire government; THAT'S the issue.
 
2013-10-14 10:13:58 AM  
itsaidwhat


0/0
 
2013-10-14 10:14:03 AM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: The debt limit is an arbitrary number whose only purpose is to be used as a partisan hammer when the other guy's party is in the White House. It should be abolished. Bring back the Gephardt rule.


This should be inscribed on a baseball bat and that bat should be used to beat some sense into everyone in D.C.

/yes, both side suck donkey balls and no, you shouldn't vote (R)
 
2013-10-14 10:14:47 AM  

Detinwolf: The US dollar is the world's currency because of the world's (and American public's) faith in the US's ability to execute and its insane purchasing power.  .  Even Boner said that he would not let the US default, because even Boner, in his limited cognitive capacity, knows that the US economy is symbiotic with the world economy.  The world must have faith in the American dollar.


Even if we don't default, this could bring another credit downgrade.  That wouldn't be apocalyptic, but it certainly would have long lasting effects.

Think your student loan payments are high now?
 
2013-10-14 10:14:50 AM  
I'd like to yell this at the people who are CONVINCED that we have enough income to cover our debt payments (so we can't default):  What are you going to do when your dollars aren't worth anything?  If you are somehow insulated from those effects, how many of your neighbors with guns and hungry bellies are?
 
2013-10-14 10:14:58 AM  

itsaidwhat: Obama derpityderpityderp.


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-10-14 10:17:16 AM  

Director_Mr: If you are blaming one side any more than the other you aren't paying attention.


Normally I would agree with you in the both sides are bad thing, however, in this situation, I think one side is clearly worse than the other.

When you start getting votes like the one below, clearly it has nothing to do with what is good for the American people anymore. From my Lehman's understanding - this vote basically was a GOP attempt to "compromise" by voting out a bill that has been singed - also known as a 'law' - and upheld by the US Supreme Court.
An attempt to "compromise" by keeping the government open as long as we eliminate funding that would provide all Americans with healthcare.

www.c-span.org
 
2013-10-14 10:17:28 AM  

jake_lex: This could end up costing some of the people who give the GOP the most in contributions a lot of money. I think this might be what finally makes them cut the Tea Party loose, but we'll see.


That ship has sailed.  There have even been FARK threads about it.  The big GOP donors are as against this as anyone else, but there isn't much they can do until the next election.
 
2013-10-14 10:17:31 AM  

VendorXeno: itsaidwhat: Obama and his libtard sycophants are equally to blame by representing the do-nothing leaches of society.

Close to 90% of the people receiving some kind of federal assistance fall into the categories of working poor, retired or disabled, including veterans and the elderly, people who put in their time. To call them do-nothing leaches [sic] is one of the lowest! most insulting and disgusting lies a person can spread about their fellow citizens. When itsaidwhat employs this lie it demonstrates him to be a dishonest, stupid, hateful human being, one of the worst of us. This is the face of the right wing now, this ignorant malice and selfish dishonesty.


media.tumblr.com
 
2013-10-14 10:17:38 AM  
KimNorth:  Out of all the headlines on all the stories submitted it seems they have been hand picking the most, I hate/Republican/religion-Christians/etc... Headline lead in's they can choose.

thechoicedrivenlife.com
 
2013-10-14 10:18:02 AM  

MilesTeg: So why even have a debt ceiling if it is not going to be observed?


It was initially to be a meaningless vote so that pols could go home and say they were being fiscally responsible, not like those evil borrow/tax and spenders like the other side.
 
2013-10-14 10:20:06 AM  
RickN99:GOP:  We don't want to fund the entire government; THAT'S the issue.

Totally true. Also, notice how this removes the "both sides are bad" argument. The House Republicans are acting like a small child- flailing, kicking, and screaming "We don't wanna!"
 
2013-10-14 10:20:35 AM  

Headso: I am curious if you have positions shorting all sorts of things and you are a big teabagger either very close to or in congress could you be charged with some crime if the default actually occurs?


Congress has exempted itself from insider trading laws.  And yes, there are congresscritters shorting US Treasury bonds.
 
2013-10-14 10:20:38 AM  

itsaidwhat: Obama and his libtard sycophants are equally to blame by representing the do-nothing leaches of society.

I laughed when POTUS nazi'd the national parks and bank rolled his NPR media. What a joke to all of us that work for a living and don't have the time to waste gawking at a tree or a giant hole in the ground. And to the veterans regarding closed memorials - I don't need to stare at a monolith to be reminded of their sacrifice - I see that in everything that I am free and able to enjoy all around me. I and my freedom are not victim to any so-called shutdown.

When a "government shutdown" still leaves 83% of the (bottom feeding) public servants at work, then we have real problem with entitlements at the top and the bottom of society.

And to the foreigners afraid of our debt ceiling, you are welcome - to the financial shelter and stability our American enterprise has afforded you under your own years of tribunal unrest. Suck it up.


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-10-14 10:20:40 AM  

SpectroBoy: itsaidwhat: Obama derpityderpityderp.

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 600x682]


That one is so much better than my attempt to make the background black. Thanks for that.

Totally unrelated to what Spectroboy gave me. I admit I have no idea why the debt ceiling MUST BE RAISED or we automatically default. Best guess is that the debt ceiling must be raised because inflation which is on average 3% per year. I also know that fiat currency is also, effectively, debt.

Query: Would the US defaulting start a new World War? Is it possible that the people in charge want a war because of what it did to our economy last time?
 
2013-10-14 10:21:25 AM  

Wasteland: MilesTeg: So why even have a debt ceiling if it is not going to be observed?
BTW Senator Obama voted not to increase it in 2006 when exact same situation came up.
No hypocrisy like liberal hypocrisy.


No ignorance like both-sides-are-bad ignorance.

Yeah, that was a hell of a long shutdown and near-default we had back in '06, wasn't it?  The world economy was just all a-flutter.


Listen, how many times do we have to tell you:

Both sides are equally at fault for this mess. Equally bad. Both sides.

Both sides are equally bad, and at fault, for this mess.

Also, vote Republican.
 
2013-10-14 10:21:56 AM  
static.photo.net
 
2013-10-14 10:22:41 AM  

RickN99: SpectroBoy: The Dem's position is "Pass a clean bill to prevent the impending disaster"
The GOP position is "No funding until we get our other demands met too."

Dems: Pass a clean bill and fund the entire government.
Obama:  We won't negotiate with the GOP about government funding until the GOP funds the entire government.
GOP:  We don't want to fund the entire government; THAT'S the issue.

GOP: We've passed bills to fund some parts of the government that we don't have an issue with.  Let's negotiate about the other parts.
Dems:  Nope. Meet 100% of our funding demands or nothing gets funded.
Obama:  Gonna veto them if they get to me.  Fund the entire government; then we'll negotiate about the funding.
GOP:  We don't want to fund the entire government; THAT'S the issue.


I guess the Dems should start telling everyone how UNAMERICAN things are.  That shiat works wonders when there's an R in the White House who wants something monumentally stupid.
 
2013-10-14 10:22:43 AM  

Director_Mr: If you are blaming one side any more than the other you aren't paying attention.


Say Fark Independents when they know Republicans are to blame.
 
2013-10-14 10:23:36 AM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: KimNorth:  Out of all the headlines on all the stories submitted it seems they have been hand picking the most, I hate/Republican/religion-Christians/etc... Headline lead in's they can choose.

[thechoicedrivenlife.com image 238x300]


You're trying too hard.

0/10
 
2013-10-14 10:26:44 AM  

moefuggenbrew: www.c-span.org


What's with the two Democrats voting in favor?
 
2013-10-14 10:27:00 AM  

AeAe: way south: dittybopper: China, Japan, Saudi Arabia, Germany and Singapore: Raise the debt ceiling NOW, a default by the United States would have a profound effect on our economies.

So, you're saying that there would be some positive effects, then.

Depends on how you define positive...


[img.fark.net image 502x640]

The illusion is that we've got one party that is obstinate and another that is reasonable.  One that cares only for its own glory and one that loves us and wants to save the nation and the world we support.
 The reality is both sides are self serving wenches that really don't care what happens so long as they "win".

If the world really wanted to see a solution then they'd have Putin call the white house and negotiate a settlement. They'd drag both party leaders into a room at the UN and give them a stern talking to.
This chiding is just so other leaders can score points of their own. They couldn't care less if we default.

Politics is a game for our emotions, not a method of leadership. It can't be trusted to run a bank.
To which a default would be "positive" in a sense that, as a planet, we would be forced to rethink what debt means and how it should be managed. We would stop allowing blame to cover for poor leadership skills, and stop seeing grandstanding as a symbol of strength.People would pay more attention to the fine print than the headlines.

So, yes, there might be a silver lining to this. Famines and wars aside.

/A small fire now is sometimes better than a big one later.
/altho it would be best to avoid both entirely.

That's not how you cut a baby in half


Yes, it is. You have to chop from the groin - with the help of gravity - through the body. If you struck the skull, the rounded (even if not quite solid yet) skull might partially deflect the blow and cause an uneven bisection. And that wouldn't be fair.

/Metaphor is good, so long as we all agree that the liar "mom" of the story represents the Republicans
//No, Mr. Police Investigator, this post was in jest and I do not, in fact, advocate or...ouch! Easy with those cuffs!
 
2013-10-14 10:28:28 AM  
Hmmm... if this plays out right (or wrong, however you wish to view it), WW3 will be fought with money?
 
2013-10-14 10:28:40 AM  

Director_Mr: If you are blaming one side any more than the other you aren't paying attention.


So vote ______________?
 
2013-10-14 10:28:56 AM  

fluffy2097: Slaxl: Misconduc: Sorry after being a democrat since Clinton - I side with the GOP over Obamacare. Honestly I could give a crap about how bad Obama has been as president,  but Obamacare really is something to fight against - forcing working people to pay for medical they cannot afford or need.

It's no longer about obamacare. It's your economic future. You cannot possibly think destroying your economy and angering the entire world is worth getting rid of Obamacare, can you?

I don't think you understand slaxl.

POOR GAY PEOPLE ARE GETTING HEALTH CARE MARRIAGES!
 
WE CAN'T HAVE POOR GAY PEOPLE HAVING THINGS OR OUR RICH CHRISTIAN PEOPLE THINGS ARE WORTHLESS BECAUSE THEY ARE OWNED BY POORS GAYS!


Changing a few words, and it comes out to about the same thing. The ppl running their tea party puppets can't seem to tell they are being fed a diet of stupidity based flash cards.
 
2013-10-14 10:29:11 AM  

RickN99: GOP:  We don't want to fund the entire government; THAT'S the issue.


You proved my point. It is the GOP and only the GOP that is not funding the government at this point. It is THEIR FAULT. It is not a "both sides are bad" issue.

Thanks for backing me up.
 
2013-10-14 10:29:20 AM  

itsaidwhat: Obama and his libtard sycophants are equally to blame by representing the do-nothing leaches of society.

I laughed when POTUS nazi'd the national parks and bank rolled his NPR media. What a joke to all of us that work for a living and don't have the time to waste gawking at a tree or a giant hole in the ground. And to the veterans regarding closed memorials - I don't need to stare at a monolith to be reminded of their sacrifice - I see that in everything that I am free and able to enjoy all around me. I and my freedom are not victim to any so-called shutdown.

When a "government shutdown" still leaves 83% of the (bottom feeding) public servants at work, then we have real problem with entitlements at the top and the bottom of society.

And to the foreigners afraid of our debt ceiling, you are welcome - to the financial shelter and stability our American enterprise has afforded you under your own years of tribunal unrest. Suck it up.


www.alltackle.com
This is good. Even sneaked in a Godwin. A bit forceful for my taste, but you've got raw talent kid.  Refine the presentation and you'll be thread shaitting in no time!
 
2013-10-14 10:30:17 AM  

DubtodaIll: I'm for default not because I think it will do any immediate good but that it will cause global reckoning.  Something needs to happen to jolt this nation out of the decades long cycle of continuing to spend more money than we have and creating a level of debt that is difficult to fathom.  Sure, things have worked fine under this system for a while, but the longer we attempt this mode of economics the worse the situation becomes.  I would rather see we work to fix our situation by normal means however I think that's far more impossible than the "impossibility" of the US defaulting on its full credit.  This Congress is so dysfunctional that it really brings in to question the validity of the system.  And maybe by some stroke of luck that dysfunction will force a situation where we're actually forced to face the consequences of the decisions that have been made in the past.
    I really don't know where I was going with any of this, but while a default would be an catastrophic situation, it may be what needs to happen now to ensure a survivable future.


Ah, yes the populist deficit hawk. SO concerned about our debt that they support a government shutdown that will cost us billions to undo. SO concerned that they support a default that will raise our interest rates and make our debt more expensive to service, effectively raising our debt. SO concerned that they support austerity measures that slow economic growth and thus hurt our debt to GDP ratio.

In short you can tell the populist deficit hawk from other deficit hawks because they are the only ones gullible enough to buy into ideas that directly and obviously work against their stated goal of reducing the debt.
 
2013-10-14 10:31:11 AM  

Wasteland: MilesTeg: So why even have a debt ceiling if it is not going to be observed?
BTW Senator Obama voted not to increase it in 2006 when exact same situation came up.
No hypocrisy like liberal hypocrisy.


No ignorance like both-sides-are-bad ignorance.

Yeah, that was a hell of a long shutdown and near-default we had back in '06, wasn't it?  The world economy was just all a-flutter.


Stop spinning, you are obviously dizzy. Spouting DNC talking points does not make your argument valid.

Facts are facts. You may want people to think somehow the situation is different now than it was then but it isn't.
 
2013-10-14 10:31:14 AM  

ajgeek: Query: Would the US defaulting start a new World War? Is it possible that the people in charge want a war because of what it did to our economy last time?


Depending on how bad the depression/recession is, some countries might see it as a means to get at resources, but realistically, my concern would be rampant unemployment, especially with young people, and some kind of violent rioting and possible revolution occurring...
 
2013-10-14 10:31:37 AM  

RickN99: SpectroBoy: The Dem's position is "Pass a clean bill to prevent the impending disaster"
The GOP position is "No funding until we get our other demands met too."

Dems: Pass a clean bill and fund the entire government.
Obama:  We won't negotiate with the GOP about government funding until the GOP funds the entire government.
GOP:  We don't want to fund the entire government; THAT'S the issue.

GOP: We've passed bills to fund some parts of the government that we don't have an issue with.  Let's negotiate about the other parts.
Dems:  Nope. Meet 100% of our funding demands or nothing gets funded.
Obama:  Gonna veto them if they get to me.  Fund the entire government; then we'll negotiate about the funding.
GOP:  We don't want to fund the entire government; THAT'S the issue.


Currently proposed government funding levels are a direct result of Speaker John Boehner receiving "98%" of what he wanted. Current funding levels, therefore, are at Republican-desired levels.

The original Republican-passed spending bill did not change government funding levels; it served only to eliminate an existing law that they did not like, despite that law having been signed into law three years ago, surviving a Constitutional challenge and effectively surviving voter referendum when the President who championed it defeated a challenger who promised to repeal it.

Your argument is a lie and you are a liar for making it.
 
2013-10-14 10:31:54 AM  
Who cares about them thar furriner places. What, a bunch a squinty-eyed commies, weird cartoon watching commies, terrorists, commie nazis, and what ever the hell a Singapore is. I don't know where that is, and real 'Muricans don't! We care about 'Murica and tossing General El Presidente Hussian Commie Osama Fartbongo Obammy outta the WHITE house.
Kin I get a cheer for willful ignorance!
 
2013-10-14 10:32:54 AM  
How many government employees does it take to write checks for the interest on the debt?  One to hold the pen and two to turn the ladder?
 
2013-10-14 10:33:24 AM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: Sounds like great news for me and lots of regular Americans.

I owe hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt at ridiculous interest rates. Much of it is immune from bankruptcy (yay - education bubble!).

Bring on the inflation. When a loaf of bread costs 100 dollars and my annual salary is 500,000k - my debts will be a drop in the bucket.


I get the idea of how a worthless dollar benefits people who have more debt than assets, but what if a loaf of bread costs 100 dollars and your annual salary doesn't inflate accordingly?
 
2013-10-14 10:34:32 AM  

moefuggenbrew: this vote basically was a GOP attempt to "compromise" by voting out a bill that has been singed - also known as a 'law'


Lots of things are laws, like the debt ceiling and the employer mandate.
 
2013-10-14 10:34:33 AM  

vpb: A default would violate the 14th amendment and if the minute the debt ceiling makes that inveitable it becomes unconstitutional.


How so.

By which I mean, explain how that reading is coherent in the context of the "authorized by law" provision of Section 4, and even so, how SCOTUS or POTUS could do anything about it, in the context of Section 5.

Budget issues are, as always, at Congressional discretion.
 
2013-10-14 10:36:01 AM  

MilesTeg: Facts are facts. You may want people to think somehow the situation is different now than it was then but it isn't.


i.dailymail.co.uk
 
2013-10-14 10:37:02 AM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: So instead of the US losing its status in the world market gradually over the next few decades we will lose it all now. Good luck buying all your oil and other imports in euros.


We buy our oil from Canada, Mexico, and Venezuela. Do you really think they won't take dollars?
 
2013-10-14 10:37:20 AM  
media.cagle.com
 
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