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(CNN)   China, Japan, Saudi Arabia, Germany and Singapore: Raise the debt ceiling NOW, a default by the United States would have a profound effect on our economies. This GOP scheme is going to tank the dollar as the world reserve currency   (money.cnn.com) divider line 521
    More: Interesting, United States, Saudi Arabia, Japan, Singapore, Americanize, action alert, Christine Lagarde, reserve currency  
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6846 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Oct 2013 at 9:16 AM (40 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-14 09:36:50 AM

Slaxl: Misconduc: Sorry after being a democrat since Clinton - I side with the GOP over Obamacare. Honestly I could give a crap about how bad Obama has been as president,  but Obamacare really is something to fight against - forcing working people to pay for medical they cannot afford or need.

It's no longer about obamacare. It's your economic future. You cannot possibly think destroying your economy and angering the entire world is worth getting rid of Obamacare, can you?


I don't think you understand slaxl.

POOR PEOPLE ARE GETTING HEALTH CARE!
POOR PEOPLE ARE GETTING THINGS!

WE CAN'T HAVE POOR PEOPLE HAVING THINGS OR OUR RICH PEOPLE THINGS ARE WORTHLESS BECAUSE THEY ARE OWNED BY POORS!
 
2013-10-14 09:37:31 AM

Bit'O'Gristle: I'm no economist, but isn't our dollar value based and backed up by the gold in fort knox? Or am i mistaken.  Anyone?


Yes, you're mistaken. We have gold reserves, but they cover only a fraction of the value of printed currency, and a much smaller fraction of the total money supply. In much the same way that banks have deposits that cover only a fraction of their outstanding loans. It's a much better system of currency; otherwise, your money supply is limited to the amount of gold you can dig up.

We haven't been on the gold standard since 1933. Good riddance to it.
 
2013-10-14 09:37:52 AM
I'm for default not because I think it will do any immediate good but that it will cause global reckoning.  Something needs to happen to jolt this nation out of the decades long cycle of continuing to spend more money than we have and creating a level of debt that is difficult to fathom.  Sure, things have worked fine under this system for a while, but the longer we attempt this mode of economics the worse the situation becomes.  I would rather see we work to fix our situation by normal means however I think that's far more impossible than the "impossibility" of the US defaulting on its full credit.  This Congress is so dysfunctional that it really brings in to question the validity of the system.  And maybe by some stroke of luck that dysfunction will force a situation where we're actually forced to face the consequences of the decisions that have been made in the past.
    I really don't know where I was going with any of this, but while a default would be an catastrophic situation, it may be what needs to happen now to ensure a survivable future.
 
2013-10-14 09:40:08 AM

Director_Mr: If you are blaming one side any more than the other you aren't paying attention.


That's a load of crap.

The Dem's position is "Pass a clean bill to prevent the impending disaster"
The GOP position is "No funding until we get our other demands met too."

They are NOT equivalent. If Boehner brought a clean bill to a vote TODAY it would almost certainly pass. It is the GOP preventing that from happening.

So take your false equivalencies somewhere dumb enough to fall for it. Try freeperrville.
 
2013-10-14 09:42:00 AM
Yeah Bitcoins! Screw that World Elitist Reserve Currency crap... Time for China to take her rightful place in the gunsights.
 
2013-10-14 09:42:03 AM

UtileDysfunktion: From WSJ:

"I guess that we could get lower in the polls. We're down to blood relatives and paid staffers now," said Sen. John McCain (R., Ariz.) said on CBS...


He's right; after tomorrow, the ones no longer getting paid will change sides.
 
2013-10-14 09:42:32 AM
So instead of the US losing its status in the world market gradually over the next few decades we will lose it all now. Good luck buying all your oil and other imports in euros.
 
2013-10-14 09:45:29 AM
For Halloween, is Bohner dressing as Nero?
 
2013-10-14 09:45:55 AM
Even if the US "defaults", who would realistically step in as a different reserve currency? Who has a more stable economy these days? Certainly not any of the countries mentioned in the headline (and that's before their economies crater right along with ours)
 
2013-10-14 09:46:06 AM

Bit'O'Gristle: I'm no economist, but isn't our dollar value based and backed up by the gold in fort knox? Or am i mistaken.  Anyone?


Umm, our economy has been a fiat currency model since Nixon took the US off the gold standard in the 70's.
 
2013-10-14 09:46:30 AM

Prophet of Loss: For Halloween, is Bohner dressing as Nero?


This assumes he survives through Halloween
 
2013-10-14 09:47:11 AM
Clearly, these countries have never owned a small business.  You see, when a business has bills it needs to pay, it can either pay those bills or default on them.  The fiscally conservative way is to default on your bills.  That's how I run my small business, and why I'm voting for Ted Cruz.
 
2013-10-14 09:48:36 AM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: So instead of the US losing its status in the world market gradually over the next few decades we will lose it all now. Good luck buying all your oil and other imports in euros.


Any bets on who is going to step up to be the next reserve currency?
 
2013-10-14 09:49:02 AM

Bit'O'Gristle: I'm no economist, but isn't our dollar value based and backed up by the gold in fort knox? Or am i mistaken.  Anyone?


The world collectively abolished the Gold standard during the Great Depression, mainly because the Great Depression was caused by the gold standard (or at least worsened to the catastrophic levels it reached)
 
2013-10-14 09:49:40 AM

Misconduc: Sorry after being a democrat since Clinton - I side with the GOP over Obamacare. Honestly I could give a crap about how bad Obama has been as president,  but Obamacare really is something to fight against - forcing working people to pay for medical they cannot afford or need.


No, no, no. Trolling isn't just posting something patently wrong in the hopes people will correct you. You have to actually stoke the fires of outrage - maybe add a dash of racial tension or fake a persecution complex. Try implying that people who disagree with you are naively optimistic children or jobless moochers. Put some effort into it next time.

DubtodaIll: I'm for default not because I think it will do any immediate good but that it will cause global reckoning.  Something needs to happen to jolt this nation out of the decades long cycle of continuing to spend more money than we have and creating a level of debt that is difficult to fathom.  Sure, things have worked fine under this system for a while, but the longer we attempt this mode of economics the worse the situation becomes.


Plenty of perfectly stable countries have higher rates of debt-to-GDP than us (Canada, the UK, Japan, etc). The absurd hysterical fearmongering over the national debt has so far been far more harmful than the debt itself, seeing as it has resulted in us cutting government spending during a recession, the absolute worst time to do so.
 
2013-10-14 09:49:41 AM

Director_Mr: If you are blaming one side any more than the other you aren't paying attention.


As a general policy, I would agree with you. In this specific instance, however, the blame rests squarely on the shoulders of the GOP. The GOP is throwing a hissy-fit because a bill they didn't like not only got passed, but held constitutional muster  and was protected from all of their attempts to repeal it. They are whinging children, upset that they're being expected to eat their broccoli and then go do their homework.

My general voting habits are to support third parties wherever possible (and write myself in when no suitable third party option presents itself).  However, based on the past decade, the Republican Party has put forth a compelling argument that I should vote straight-line Democrat at the Federal level. It doesn't  really matter- Pittsburgh is True Blue and won't be sending a Republican anywhere anytime soon.
 
2013-10-14 09:50:41 AM

Lost Thought 00: Even if the US "defaults", who would realistically step in as a different reserve currency? Who has a more stable economy these days? Certainly not any of the countries mentioned in the headline (and that's before their economies crater right along with ours)


The US is the world's reserve currency because we are stable.  If we default that is no longer the case.  There will then be no compelling reason to remain the world's reserve currency.  It wouldn't be overnight but you can bet 100% that if the US defaults, the Euro or the Yuan WILL replace the dollar at some point.

This whole thing is insane.
 
2013-10-14 09:51:00 AM

vpb: There is zero chance of a default.  I don't think he would do in until the last minute, but I am sure Obama will disregard the debt ceiling if it comes to that.

A default would violate the 14th amendment and if the minute the debt ceiling makes that inveitable it becomes unconstitutional.


The constitution is just a piece of paper written by socialists. Except the Second Amendment, which was written by Jesus.
 
2013-10-14 09:51:09 AM

dittybopper: China, Japan, Saudi Arabia, Germany and Singapore: Raise the debt ceiling NOW, a default by the United States would have a profound effect on our economies.

So, you're saying that there would be some positive effects, then.


Depends on how you define positive...


img.fark.net

The illusion is that we've got one party that is obstinate and another that is reasonable.  One that cares only for its own glory and one that loves us and wants to save the nation and the world we support.
 The reality is both sides are self serving wenches that really don't care what happens so long as they "win".

If the world really wanted to see a solution then they'd have Putin call the white house and negotiate a settlement. They'd drag both party leaders into a room at the UN and give them a stern talking to.
This chiding is just so other leaders can score points of their own. They couldn't care less if we default.

Politics is a game for our emotions, not a method of leadership. It can't be trusted to run a bank.
To which a default would be "positive" in a sense that, as a planet, we would be forced to rethink what debt means and how it should be managed. We would stop allowing blame to cover for poor leadership skills, and stop seeing grandstanding as a symbol of strength.People would pay more attention to the fine print than the headlines.

So, yes, there might be a silver lining to this. Famines and wars aside.

/A small fire now is sometimes better than a big one later.
/altho it would be best to avoid both entirely.
 
2013-10-14 09:51:18 AM
Meh.  This debt ceiling thing is like the boy who cried wolf... we've seen this go down to the wire before.  It's political theater, just like most of the other shiat they do.

As the saying here goes, "Wake me when..." we actually default.  Then I'll pay attention and worry again.
 
2013-10-14 09:51:33 AM

fluffy2097: NewportBarGuy: There is no other reserve currency.

We'll just have a much weaker one thanks to Congressional Republicans.

It's Ok. We can use Zimbabwe's currency as a reserve. They printed plenty of it. Look. With a single bill from Zimbabwe we could pay off our debt's multiple times.

[i.imgur.com image 850x421]
/yes, the dollar will be valued about this much if we default.
[www.goldonomic.com image 468x351]
/what paying for a happy meal will soon look like.


Sounds like great news for me and lots of regular Americans.

I owe hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt at ridiculous interest rates.  Much of it is immune from bankruptcy (yay - education bubble!).

Bring on the inflation.  When a loaf of bread costs 100 dollars and my annual salary is 500,000k - my debts will be a drop in the bucket.
 
2013-10-14 09:51:40 AM
The GOP WANTS this to happen. It's what they have planned for, for years. This is what they want.
 
2013-10-14 09:53:11 AM

Mawson of the Antarctic: Either 2 ways this could play out: Massive GOP backlash for letting the debt ceiling come to Obama saving it OR Congress hungrily trying to kick Obama out for trying to save the debt ceiling via impeachment hearings or just general nuisance.

 
2013-10-14 09:53:11 AM

AngryDragon: Euro or the Yuan WILL replace the dollar at some point.


The euro very well may not exist in a few years, and the Yuan is so directly manipulated by the Chinese Government that no one would dare touch it for a reserve currency. Maybe the Yen or the Pound. That's all I can come up with as plausible alternatives
 
2013-10-14 09:53:16 AM
Fark_Guy_Rob: ....Bring on the inflation.  When a loaf of bread costs 100 dollars and my annual salary is 500,000k - my debts will be a drop in the bucket.

AHHAHAHHAAAAA you really think the Mitt Romneys of the world are going to raise your salary so it keeps pace with inflation?


HAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAHOHOHOHHEEEEHHEHEHHEHEEEEEEEHEHEHHOHOHHAAA
 
2013-10-14 09:53:21 AM
New Babylon is falling. How do I know the US is the New Babylon?

Its all our politicians seem to be able to do there days.

/Please, try the fish
 
2013-10-14 09:53:37 AM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: So instead of the US losing its status in the world market gradually over the next few decades we will lose it all now. Good luck buying all your oil and other imports in euros.


Whoa - I remember the Fark Collective telling me, in no uncertain terms, that the Euro was doomed and wouldn't exist!
 
2013-10-14 09:53:48 AM

theorellior: KimNorth: Gosh the farkers who green-light are not even trying a little to hide their political agenda anymore. Out of all the headlines on all the stories submitted it seems they have been hand picking the most, I hate/Republican/religion-Christians/etc... Headline lead in's they can choose. Tired, tired, boring....

God, I get so tired of this bullshiat. Plonk.


Aren't you the cool kid......
 
2013-10-14 09:53:57 AM

Director_Mr: If you are blaming one side any more than the other you aren't paying attention.


That's one of the stupidest things I've ever seen on fark.
 
2013-10-14 09:54:12 AM

KellyX: Mawson of the Antarctic: Either 2 ways this could play out: Massive GOP backlash for letting the debt ceiling come to Obama saving it OR Congress hungrily trying to kick Obama out for trying to save the debt ceiling via impeachment hearings or just general nuisance.


static.comicvine.com

/meant to include that, should of previewed =(
 
2013-10-14 09:54:16 AM
Obama and his libtard sycophants are equally to blame by representing the do-nothing leaches of society.

I laughed when POTUS nazi'd the national parks and bank rolled his NPR media. What a joke to all of us that work for a living and don't have the time to waste gawking at a tree or a giant hole in the ground. And to the veterans regarding closed memorials - I don't need to stare at a monolith to be reminded of their sacrifice - I see that in everything that I am free and able to enjoy all around me. I and my freedom are not victim to any so-called shutdown.

When a "government shutdown" still leaves 83% of the (bottom feeding) public servants at work, then we have real problem with entitlements at the top and the bottom of society.

And to the foreigners afraid of our debt ceiling, you are welcome - to the financial shelter and stability our American enterprise has afforded you under your own years of tribunal unrest. Suck it up.
 
2013-10-14 09:54:20 AM

way south: The reality is both sides are self serving wenches that really don't care what happens so long as they "win".


Oh fantastic, BSABSVR! I'm close to winning at Derp Bingo!
 
2013-10-14 09:55:05 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: Director_Mr: If you are blaming one side any more than the other you aren't paying attention.

That's one of the stupidest things I've ever seen on fark.


Maybe he just got back from a Geico commercial ...

fitumi.co.za
 
2013-10-14 09:55:20 AM

ghare: The GOP WANTS this to happen. It's what they have planned for, for years. This is what they want.


i.qkme.me
 
2013-10-14 09:55:58 AM

Fark_Guy_Rob: I owe hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt at ridiculous interest rates.  Much of it is immune from bankruptcy (yay - education bubble!).

Bring on the inflation.  When a loaf of bread costs 100 dollars and my annual salary is 500,000k - my debts will be a drop in the bucket.


Good plan, but I suspect interest rates will go up to match the inflation.
 
2013-10-14 09:57:17 AM

Slaxl: It's no longer about obamacare. It's your economic future. You cannot possibly think destroying your economy and angering the entire world is worth getting rid of Obamacare, can you?


Even more evidence that special interests have their fingers far too deeply interwoven in the U.S. government, on both sides of the political coin.

On one hand, we've got a multibillion dollar corporation (Washington Redskins) that's supposed to go to all kinds of expense to change its name because a handful of people that the name has absolutely no effect over suddenly have their panties in a manufactured wad over the name. Yet, a 2000-page travesty of a "healthcare plan" which is already offending millions and was hammered through with barely any review is supposed to stand simply because "it's the law". (If history is any  indication, so was slavery at one time.)
 
2013-10-14 09:57:57 AM
itsaidwhat: derpderpderp


You get to vote with that brain, huh? This is why we can't have nice things.
 
2013-10-14 09:58:47 AM

Director_Mr: If you are blaming one side any more than the other you aren't paying attention.


Let's see, one side specifically planned the shutdown over an unrelated law they already failed to scuttle. It takes the self centered ignorance of a centrist to ignore those facts and claim both sides are the same. Please stop trying to pass off your lazy stupidity as being somehow clever and informed.
 
2013-10-14 09:59:09 AM
scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2013-10-14 09:59:09 AM

itsaidwhat: I laughed when POTUS nazi'd the national parks and bank rolled his NPR media.


Those CPB appropriations were approved by Congress in 2012. But go you.
 
2013-10-14 09:59:20 AM

itsaidwhat: Obama and his libtard sycophants are equally to blame by representing the do-nothing leaches of society.

I laughed when POTUS nazi'd the national parks and bank rolled his NPR media. What a joke to all of us that work for a living and don't have the time to waste gawking at a tree or a giant hole in the ground. And to the veterans regarding closed memorials - I don't need to stare at a monolith to be reminded of their sacrifice - I see that in everything that I am free and able to enjoy all around me. I and my freedom are not victim to any so-called shutdown.

When a "government shutdown" still leaves 83% of the (bottom feeding) public servants at work, then we have real problem with entitlements at the top and the bottom of society.

And to the foreigners afraid of our debt ceiling, you are welcome - to the financial shelter and stability our American enterprise has afforded you under your own years of tribunal unrest. Suck it up.


That you Ted?
 
2013-10-14 09:59:52 AM

HAMMERTOE: Slaxl: It's no longer about obamacare. It's your economic future. You cannot possibly think destroying your economy and angering the entire world is worth getting rid of Obamacare, can you?

Even more evidence that special interests have their fingers far too deeply interwoven in the U.S. government, on both sides of the political coin.

On one hand, we've got a multibillion dollar corporation (Washington Redskins) that's supposed to go to all kinds of expense to change its name because a handful of people that the name has absolutely no effect over suddenly have their panties in a manufactured wad over the name. Yet, a 2000-page travesty of a "healthcare plan" which is already offending millions and was hammered through with barely any review is supposed to stand simply because "it's the law". (If history is any  indication, so was slavery at one time.)


Again, we see that Republicans have to actually lie for the basis for their beliefs.

Seriously, sweetie, lots of people are capable of using Google and finding out that you are lying. You should stop.
 
2013-10-14 10:00:00 AM

way south: dittybopper: China, Japan, Saudi Arabia, Germany and Singapore: Raise the debt ceiling NOW, a default by the United States would have a profound effect on our economies.

So, you're saying that there would be some positive effects, then.

Depends on how you define positive...


[img.fark.net image 502x640]

The illusion is that we've got one party that is obstinate and another that is reasonable.  One that cares only for its own glory and one that loves us and wants to save the nation and the world we support.
 The reality is both sides are self serving wenches that really don't care what happens so long as they "win".

If the world really wanted to see a solution then they'd have Putin call the white house and negotiate a settlement. They'd drag both party leaders into a room at the UN and give them a stern talking to.
This chiding is just so other leaders can score points of their own. They couldn't care less if we default.

Politics is a game for our emotions, not a method of leadership. It can't be trusted to run a bank.
To which a default would be "positive" in a sense that, as a planet, we would be forced to rethink what debt means and how it should be managed. We would stop allowing blame to cover for poor leadership skills, and stop seeing grandstanding as a symbol of strength.People would pay more attention to the fine print than the headlines.

So, yes, there might be a silver lining to this. Famines and wars aside.

/A small fire now is sometimes better than a big one later.
/altho it would be best to avoid both entirely.


That's not how you cut a baby in half
 
2013-10-14 10:00:03 AM
HAMMERTOE:

On one hand, we've got a multibillion dollar corporation (Washington Redskins) that's supposed to go to all kinds of expense to change its name because a handful of people that the name has absolutely no effect over suddenly have their panties in a manufactured wad over the name. Yet, a 2000-page travesty of a "healthcare plan" which is already offending millions and was hammered through with barely any review is supposed to stand simply because "it's the law". (If history is any  indication, so was slavery at one time.)

Sounds like this is an outrage.
 
2013-10-14 10:00:37 AM

Rapmaster2000: Clearly, these countries have never owned a small business.  You see, when a business has bills it needs to pay, it can either pay those bills or default on them.  The fiscally conservative way is to default on your bills.  That's how I run my small business, and why I'm voting for Ted Cruz.


notsureifserious.jpg
 
2013-10-14 10:00:42 AM

Gunther: The absurd hysterical fearmongering over the national debt has so far been far more harmful than the debt itself, seeing as it has resulted in us cutting government spending during a recession, the absolute worst time to do so.


The thing I like to point out is that people keep saying "Run the government like a business!" Well, if that's what we want to do (not that I recommend it), then we should continue carrying as large a debt load as we can support. Why?  Because debt is how you grow. When a government takes on debt, that government is spending with the anticipation that this debt is going to allow it to invest in the economy and grow. If our economy gets bigger, than the debt-to-GDP ratio shrinks.

To be concrete: let's say I run a pizza parlor. Like most restaurants, I'm barely scraping by. I haven't got a penny of spare cash at the end of the month. I want to expand my business- there are a lot of people out there who I could sell pizza to, but I can't afford a new oven, I can't afford to pay extra drivers, and I'd need a better phone system to handle the increased call volume. So what do I do?

I take on some debt. I get someone else- a bank, and investor- to give me money in anticipation that this money will let me grow my business. Debt powers economic growth. This "cash on the barrelhead" routine is delightfully simple, but it doesn't scale well to multi-million dollar transactions.
 
2013-10-14 10:01:11 AM

DubtodaIll: I'm for default not because I think it will do any immediate good but that it will cause global reckoning.  Something needs to happen to jolt this nation out of the decades long cycle of continuing to spend more money than we have and creating a level of debt that is difficult to fathom.  Sure, things have worked fine under this system for a while, but the longer we attempt this mode of economics the worse the situation becomes.  I would rather see we work to fix our situation by normal means however I think that's far more impossible than the "impossibility" of the US defaulting on its full credit.  This Congress is so dysfunctional that it really brings in to question the validity of the system.  And maybe by some stroke of luck that dysfunction will force a situation where we're actually forced to face the consequences of the decisions that have been made in the past.
    I really don't know where I was going with any of this, but while a default would be an catastrophic situation, it may be what needs to happen now to ensure a survivable future.


The sting survive and the weak perish, is that it?
 
2013-10-14 10:02:39 AM

itsaidwhat: Obama and his libtard sycophants are equally to blame by representing the do-nothing leaches of society.

I laughed when POTUS nazi'd the national parks and bank rolled his NPR media. What a joke to all of us that work for a living and don't have the time to waste gawking at a tree or a giant hole in the ground. And to the veterans regarding closed memorials - I don't need to stare at a monolith to be reminded of their sacrifice - I see that in everything that I am free and able to enjoy all around me. I and my freedom are not victim to any so-called shutdown.

When a "government shutdown" still leaves 83% of the (bottom feeding) public servants at work, then we have real problem with entitlements at the top and the bottom of society.

And to the foreigners afraid of our debt ceiling, you are welcome - to the financial shelter and stability our American enterprise has afforded you under your own years of tribunal unrest. Suck it up.


oh, I love it! you can practically smell the foam
 
2013-10-14 10:03:41 AM

NewportBarGuy: There is no other reserve currency.

We'll just have a much weaker one thanks to Congressional Republicans.


We all wish this, but no.
Destroying the dollar as the world's reserve currency drags the Euro into oblivion, and the healthy economies of Europe crash. The UK? Yeah, no.
Japan and China crash right along with us.
No other economy is big enough, and none is independent enough of ours that it isn't dragged down, too.
You'll have a huge panic sell-off of financial assets affecting tens of trillions in investment.
What's on the line is global financial meltdown followed by a depression that makes that of the 1930s look like a minor sad.
There is no fallback.

/That's why the whole world is becoming increasingly strident about this.
 
2013-10-14 10:03:52 AM

Weaver95: DubtodaIll: I'm for default not because I think it will do any immediate good but that it will cause global reckoning.  Something needs to happen to jolt this nation out of the decades long cycle of continuing to spend more money than we have and creating a level of debt that is difficult to fathom.  Sure, things have worked fine under this system for a while, but the longer we attempt this mode of economics the worse the situation becomes.  I would rather see we work to fix our situation by normal means however I think that's far more impossible than the "impossibility" of the US defaulting on its full credit.  This Congress is so dysfunctional that it really brings in to question the validity of the system.  And maybe by some stroke of luck that dysfunction will force a situation where we're actually forced to face the consequences of the decisions that have been made in the past.
    I really don't know where I was going with any of this, but while a default would be an catastrophic situation, it may be what needs to happen now to ensure a survivable future.

The sting survive and the weak perish, is that it?


Approves

www.onlinesheetmusic.com
 
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