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(Time)   To woo millennials, GM rolls out online service that allows car shoppers to skip the car-salesman haggling kabuki and buy over Internet, with dealer's role limited to driving the car to your home   (business.time.com) divider line 109
    More: Spiffy, internet, haggling  
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1976 clicks; posted to Business » on 14 Oct 2013 at 10:35 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-14 08:48:18 AM  
This is a good thing, I hate dealing with sales people for just about anything.  When I'm buying something especially of high value I already know exactly what I want, I just need someone to make with the exchange of goods for money.
 
2013-10-14 08:53:21 AM  
i49.tinypic.com

May have to call Burt.
 
2013-10-14 09:11:06 AM  

BumpInTheNight: This is a good thing, I hate dealing with sales people for just about anything.  When I'm buying something especially of high value I already know exactly what I want, I just need someone to make with the exchange of goods for money.


Plus, this takes out a few middle men, allowing the price to (possibly) decrease.
 
2013-10-14 09:11:21 AM  
I didn't think manufacturers were allowed to sell directly to people, didn't Tesla get sued for this?
 
2013-10-14 09:22:20 AM  

BumpInTheNight: I just need someone to make with the exchange of goods for money


Yes, this, why do so many companies make this simple goal so difficult to fulfill.

If it is a big purchase, I gotta go to battle with some asshole salesman.
If it is a little purchase, I need to get a damn loyalty/rewards card, use coupons (or get ripped off), etc.
If it is a medium purchase, I have to decline their stupid insurance plan and if the the damn fine print "just means" whatever the clerk claims it means then why doesn't it actually say what it means (we know the answer: because it doesn't mean what it means, duh)?

In sum, won't someone take my goddamn money?
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-10-14 09:24:50 AM  
change1211

In this case the dealer is still the legal seller and gets a piece of the action.
 
2013-10-14 09:33:17 AM  
But who will sponsor the little league teams?
 
2013-10-14 09:38:22 AM  

Babwa Wawa: But who will sponsor the little league teams?


Pizza places
 
2013-10-14 10:06:02 AM  

Babwa Wawa: But who will sponsor the little league teams?



blogs.riverfronttimes.com
 
2013-10-14 10:40:25 AM  
Our last three cars were purchased privately. I'm not sure if I'll ever buy from a dealership again. Best dealership experience was Saturn in the late 90s. Best coffee, great sales guys, no haggling. We still have that Saturn and the Ion my stepdad bought later.
 
2013-10-14 10:45:14 AM  
Americans don't haggle as a culture, making it strange we're supposed to do it when buying a car.  I understand negotiating for home prices, etc., but those aren't the same as the kind of brinkmanship/deception/lying involved in car buying.

I applaud this.  Thankfully I live in NYC and don't need a damn car.
 
2013-10-14 10:46:12 AM  

ZAZ: change1211

In this case the dealer is still the legal seller and gets a piece of the action.


You know who else got a piece of the action?

images1.wikia.nocookie.net

Jojo Krako, that's who.
 
2013-10-14 10:46:41 AM  

change1211: I didn't think manufacturers were allowed to sell directly to people, didn't Tesla get sued for this?


Only in some states.

We just bought a used car from a body shop. We had gone to a dealership earlier, but the salesman had no clue as to what was on the lot and kept saying, "Look around, what do you like?" Maybe he should run for Congress.
 
2013-10-14 10:51:44 AM  
Yeah, but that means I still end up with a GM Product.

/No.
 
2013-10-14 10:54:15 AM  
Hell, I'm old, and I'd love this. Next car is most likely going to be a Chevy Sonic hatchback 6-speed.

According to the shop-click-drive website, there aren't any participating dealers closer than ~300 miles, though. Oh well.
 
2013-10-14 10:54:59 AM  
How do I test drive it online?
 
2013-10-14 10:57:59 AM  
Good. Commodities should be available at a fixed price via the internet.

Now, make one that I couldn't buy from inside of it. I'm sick and tired of having to buy stupid shiat like "Pandora" and some stupid-ass tablet computer full of apps on the dash just to have leather.
 
2013-10-14 10:58:03 AM  

wiseolddude: How do I test drive it online?


Exactly.  This setup sounds like it would work great if they could negotiate it online, drive it to my place, then let me test drive it before purchasing.
 
2013-10-14 10:58:11 AM  

wiseolddude: How do I test drive it online?


The dealer brings it to you, or you go to the dealer.

Are you really this dense?
 
2013-10-14 11:06:29 AM  
The dealer brings it to you, or you go to the dealer.

Dealers aren't going to be driving cars to everyone who pretends interest, that wouldn't make  any financial sense. You would have to drive to the dealer anyway, so doing the whole transaction online wont work.
 
2013-10-14 11:07:24 AM  
Welcome to the 20th Century GM!

CarsDirect.com has been been doing this since Dancing Baby was a thing.

I bought my Mazda using them... pretty painless.

Filled in their form and within a couple hours, I had offers from 5 dealers ranging from $21.5 to $24K
I took the lowest one to the closest dealer that had the car I wanted in stock and told their internet sales guy that I'd pay $21K.

He left to "check with the manager" and came back about 2 minutes later and shook my hand.
 
2013-10-14 11:08:28 AM  
So, now that they've gone out of their way to destroy Saturn, they're trying to adopt a few of the things that made Saturn a better proposition than the rest of GM?

*facepalm*
 
2013-10-14 11:13:47 AM  
I wonder what kind of room you have for negotiation in this process?  I mean, maybe you are buying online and you don't have to deal with the four-square form and the rest of the dog-and-pony show, but I have to imagine that if a car dealer can sell a car at sticker price over the internet he's probably going to be willing to forego trying to wring a few hundred extra out of the buyer in the form of special financing plans and underbody coating.
 
2013-10-14 11:14:09 AM  

Eddie Adams from Torrance: CarsDirect.com has been been doing this since Dancing Baby was a thing.


Came here to say this. Carsdirect started in 1999.
 
2013-10-14 11:16:59 AM  

change1211: I didn't think manufacturers were allowed to sell directly to people, didn't Tesla get sued for this?


It's illegal in Texas for a auto manufacture to sell cars to the public.

/party of small government keeping ctizens safe
 
2013-10-14 11:17:21 AM  
Soon you won't have to deal with any other humans at all, you poor little things.....
 
2013-10-14 11:21:15 AM  

wiseolddude: Dealers aren't going to be driving cars to everyone who pretends interest, that wouldn't make  any financial sense. You would have to drive to the dealer anyway, so doing the whole transaction online wont work.


horseshiat.

First of all, test driving is easy.  Second, you're missing the point that people hate dealing with car salesmen. All the lies ("yeah, we have that on the lot, come on down!") and "negotiation"  ("well, that's the sticker price, let me see what the manager would say about it.")

What people want is to limit their interaction with car salesmen to "I've come to get the keys to the car I purchased, please".

Second, this will help dealers (especially small ones), because dealers won't have to manage as much inventory.
 
2013-10-14 11:22:05 AM  

The Muthaship: Soon you won't have to deal with any other humans at all, you poor little things.....


Car salesmen are human?
 
2013-10-14 11:22:54 AM  

Babwa Wawa: The Muthaship: Soon you won't have to deal with any other humans at all, you poor little things.....

Car salesmen are human?


Touche`
 
2013-10-14 11:26:34 AM  
hertz Car Sales does something like that, I should have tried that instead of going to the dealer for the current car
 
2013-10-14 11:27:35 AM  
When I'm car shopping, the first thing I look for is a car I want to buy, then I figure out the price and process later. Currently, there isn't a single car in GMs lineup that appeals to me. Hell, I don't even think they make a hatchback of any kind
 
2013-10-14 11:38:56 AM  

Lost Thought 00: When I'm car shopping, the first thing I look for is a car I want to buy, then I figure out the price and process later. Currently, there isn't a single car in GMs lineup that appeals to me. Hell, I don't even think they make a hatchback of any kind


Volt is a hatchback.  Added bonus of only having had to put gas in it twice this year.

image.motortrend.com
 
2013-10-14 11:41:54 AM  

Lost Thought 00: When I'm car shopping, the first thing I look for is a car I want to buy, then I figure out the price and process later. Currently, there isn't a single car in GMs lineup that appeals to me. Hell, I don't even think they make a hatchback of any kind


You must have not checked them out since the 90's

You can get the spark or the sonic in hatch, and they claim the volt is a hatchback as well (maybe but styling wise it doesn't resemble one to me)

I wish the Cruze Hatch would get imported over from europe
 
2013-10-14 11:42:48 AM  

AngryDragon: Volt is a hatchback.  Added bonus of only having had to put gas in it twice this year.


How much room is there in them? I had a chevy cruze, internally are the comparable?
 
2013-10-14 11:44:40 AM  
Dealing with car salesmen isn't always the most enjoyable thing to do, but it's not terribly difficult. Just follow three easy rules:

1. Never get less than twelve hours of sleep.
2. Never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city.
3. Never get involved with a woman who has a tattoo of a dagger on her body.

Wait, wrong set of rules.

1. Do your research beforehand (Edmunds, Consumer Reports, KBB, etc.).
2. Don't get attached to a specific car.
3. Don't hesitate to walk out.
 
2013-10-14 11:50:44 AM  

loonatic112358: hertz Car Sales does something like that, I should have tried that instead of going to the dealer for the current car


I don't know anyone who doesn't drive the heck out if a rental.
 
2013-10-14 11:55:14 AM  
As a car salesman myself, I have to ask a couple questions.

If you are willing to pay a no-haggle price online, why not just come in and pay the MSRP in person?   Trust me, we'd rather not negotiate either.  Not to mention I'll actually walk you through all the features and show you how to use the damn wipers.

The problem is that people like to 'win', so they come in with ridiculous expectations of discounts because "my dad told me that I should never pay more than invoice for a car".

I promise, if you are willing to simply pay the posted price, it gets a lot easier.
 
2013-10-14 11:56:50 AM  

loonatic112358: Lost Thought 00: When I'm car shopping, the first thing I look for is a car I want to buy, then I figure out the price and process later. Currently, there isn't a single car in GMs lineup that appeals to me. Hell, I don't even think they make a hatchback of any kind

You must have not checked them out since the 90's

You can get the spark or the sonic in hatch, and they claim the volt is a hatchback as well (maybe but styling wise it doesn't resemble one to me)

I wish the Cruze Hatch would get imported over from europe


Actually, I did notice the Sonic hatch, but there isn't even room for a single grocery bag without folding the seats. Never heard of the Spark. Volt maybe technically have a hatch, but violates the entire point by not having any more space than a sedan. Ultimately I just went with a Golf
 
2013-10-14 12:01:45 PM  
What value does a salesman add to the transaction for a customer? None. For the leadership? Plenty, if he can scam you on undercoating, 25 year warranties, etc.

RangerTaylor: If you are willing to pay a no-haggle price online, why not just come in and pay the MSRP in person?


It's not possible to do a deal quickly. I research my vehicles, know what I want, go in to buy and it still takes two trips.  Last car they already had my check verified when I showed up and it STILL took 1.5 hours to drive out of the dealership

You could at least refund me the value of my time, but at the very least stop wasting it.
 
2013-10-14 12:02:47 PM  

RangerTaylor: As a car salesman myself, I have to ask a couple questions.

If you are willing to pay a no-haggle price online, why not just come in and pay the MSRP in person?   Trust me, we'd rather not negotiate either.  Not to mention I'll actually walk you through all the features and show you how to use the damn wipers.

The problem is that people like to 'win', so they come in with ridiculous expectations of discounts because "my dad told me that I should never pay more than invoice for a car".

I promise, if you are willing to simply pay the posted price, it gets a lot easier.


See, my family is your worst nightmare. We are willing to do the hard work if it means we get $200 a month off our payments. Back in the mid 80s, my dad spent 12 hours and threatened to walk out three times in order to get a really good deal on a Ford truck.

Now we just walk in and ask where the unwinds are and then go from there.
 
2013-10-14 12:04:39 PM  

Nicholas D. Wolfwood: So, now that they've gone out of their way to destroy Saturn, they're trying to adopt a few of the things that made Saturn a better proposition than the rest of GM?

*facepalm*


This. Dealing with a Saturn dealership was the best. The cars weren't bad, either. Opinions on this differ, of course, but I didn't even have any major mechanical problems with my SL2 until after I'd had the car for 11 years (and after 11 years you expect that). And you can rag on the "plastic body" all you want, but my car exterior is still in pretty good shape.

/afraid to buy another car
 
2013-10-14 12:05:32 PM  

Peki: RangerTaylor: As a car salesman myself, I have to ask a couple questions.

If you are willing to pay a no-haggle price online, why not just come in and pay the MSRP in person?   Trust me, we'd rather not negotiate either.  Not to mention I'll actually walk you through all the features and show you how to use the damn wipers.

The problem is that people like to 'win', so they come in with ridiculous expectations of discounts because "my dad told me that I should never pay more than invoice for a car".

I promise, if you are willing to simply pay the posted price, it gets a lot easier.

See, my family is your worst nightmare. We are willing to do the hard work if it means we get $200 a month off our payments. Back in the mid 80s, my dad spent 12 hours and threatened to walk out three times in order to get a really good deal on a Ford truck.

Now we just walk in and ask where the unwinds are and then go from there.


On the plus side, we have a great GM who doesn't believe in giving away cars, so when someone comes in and says 'I'm going to make sure you get the worst deal you've ever written' he simply shows them the door.   You do understand that making less than 1% profit on a deal would be unacceptable in any other industry right?

Now, to be fair, I sell cars with an 8% markup as opposed to the usual domestic 20%, so it's a little bit of a different game.
 
jgi
2013-10-14 12:06:59 PM  

RangerTaylor: I promise, if you are willing to simply pay the posted price, it gets a lot easier.


The last time I tried to buy a car, I got a price via their internet department. When I went in to purchase the car, the price was $2000 more. I argued and told them I was willing to pay the price they originally quoted me. But they wouldn't sell it to me for the price that they themselves quoted me. I walked out. So now I'm done with dealerships. The next time I buy a car it will be used from CarMax or from a private seller.
 
2013-10-14 12:09:10 PM  

jgi: RangerTaylor: I promise, if you are willing to simply pay the posted price, it gets a lot easier.

The last time I tried to buy a car, I got a price via their internet department. When I went in to purchase the car, the price was $2000 more. I argued and told them I was willing to pay the price they originally quoted me. But they wouldn't sell it to me for the price that they themselves quoted me. I walked out. So now I'm done with dealerships. The next time I buy a car it will be used from CarMax or from a private seller.


So you're telling me you've sworn off all coffee after some idiot burned your coffee the one time?

Seriously though, I'm curious.  Did they offer you $2000 less discount?  Or was it a case where the initial quote didn't include taxes/fees/etc?
 
2013-10-14 12:13:11 PM  

RangerTaylor: Peki: RangerTaylor: As a car salesman myself, I have to ask a couple questions.

If you are willing to pay a no-haggle price online, why not just come in and pay the MSRP in person?   Trust me, we'd rather not negotiate either.  Not to mention I'll actually walk you through all the features and show you how to use the damn wipers.

The problem is that people like to 'win', so they come in with ridiculous expectations of discounts because "my dad told me that I should never pay more than invoice for a car".

I promise, if you are willing to simply pay the posted price, it gets a lot easier.

See, my family is your worst nightmare. We are willing to do the hard work if it means we get $200 a month off our payments. Back in the mid 80s, my dad spent 12 hours and threatened to walk out three times in order to get a really good deal on a Ford truck.

Now we just walk in and ask where the unwinds are and then go from there.

On the plus side, we have a great GM who doesn't believe in giving away cars, so when someone comes in and says 'I'm going to make sure you get the worst deal you've ever written' he simply shows them the door.   You do understand that making less than 1% profit on a deal would be unacceptable in any other industry right?

Now, to be fair, I sell cars with an 8% markup as opposed to the usual domestic 20%, so it's a little bit of a different game.


Like you said, if you do your research you know what is a reasonable price for a car. And what's a problem.

I walked onto a lot once with an 03 Chevy something (Impala? Cavalier? I'm not a GM fan) that was listed for well below what it should have been. I looked at the salesman and asked, "Okay, what's wrong with it? Target car you're trying to get off the lot? Mechanical issues?" Funniest thing was the salesman looked as confused as I was; turned out to be an early lease return, so they were trying to get it off the lot in time for next year's models.

I don't have a problem with mark up; you all gotta eat too. I just don't like the games and misdirection.

/helps that my dad is a sales executive too, only he does aerospace, not cars
 
2013-10-14 12:15:10 PM  
I researched the car I wanted and gathered derived an acceptable range of what I would pay.

Then I emailed two dealers near my house stating they had one chance for the best price possible.

They both came in about $50 above what I thought was the absolute-lowest price possible--and many hundreds below the max of my range of acceptable cost.  And about $3,000 below sticker with no haggling.

The only time I went to the dealer was for the paperwork & pick up the car.
 
2013-10-14 12:19:48 PM  
buy a car shopper subscription if you don't like to haggle. i think consumer reports charges $200 to have someone go to several area dealerships and haggle for you for one special car model and they guarantee the lowest price they get will be honored for you.
 
jgi
2013-10-14 12:21:45 PM  

RangerTaylor: So you're telling me you've sworn off all coffee after some idiot burned your coffee the one time?

Seriously though, I'm curious.  Did they offer you $2000 less discount?  Or was it a case where the initial quote didn't include taxes/fees/etc?


Look... car dealerships are notoriously slimy. I did advertising for a dealership group in the past and they were slimy people. My last experience with a car dealership was slimy. It shouldn't be like that so I'm just going to vote with my dollars.

No, this was even before tax. This was the base price of the car. I asked for the quote of a car by its VIN via the internet. "I would like your price of this particular car." I went and test drove that particular car (yes, I checked the VIN). But once I got to the desk, the price went up. Some "package" was forgotten about and "we're sorry, but this is the price." I drove 45 minutes to go to this particular dealership. My time was wasted and I learned a lesson. Maybe you're one of the "good ones" but the bad apples spoil the entire bunch in this case. From now on, I'd rather just buy a used car from a place that posts the exact price on the internet and sticks to it.
 
2013-10-14 12:22:43 PM  

loonatic112358: AngryDragon: Volt is a hatchback.  Added bonus of only having had to put gas in it twice this year.

How much room is there in them? I had a chevy cruze, internally are the comparable?


Virtually identical.  With the seats down, there's plenty.
 
2013-10-14 12:26:53 PM  

Nicholas D. Wolfwood: So, now that they've gone out of their way to destroy Saturn, they're trying to adopt a few of the things that made Saturn a better proposition than the rest of GM?

*facepalm*


Still driving an 00 and 03 every damn dollar loving damn day. Love them, miss being able to buy new ones.
 
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