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(Think Progress)   Remember when George Washington defeated the British by crashing the world economy?   (thinkprogress.org) divider line 213
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3640 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Oct 2013 at 7:02 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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NFA [TotalFark]
2013-10-13 05:30:05 PM  
Deliberately damaging the nation and it's economy is not treason, nope, not treasonous at all.

What a god damn traitor!

trea·son
ˈtrēzən/
noun
1.the crime of betraying one's country,
 
2013-10-13 05:45:56 PM  
So he's saying he wants destroy the economy of the USA to break our will, so he can declare independence?

Hell, he doesn't have to do that. We'll help him and his idiot friends pack and give them a ride to the border.
 
2013-10-13 06:40:37 PM  
On the final day before the Debt Ceiling is met and shiat is scheduled to go haywire, I hope the President holds a prime-time interruption and announces an Executive Action of some sort to end this charade. Go over Congress' heads.
 
2013-10-13 06:47:48 PM  
It's amusing how consistent the Republicans are at their projection. Meaning they attribute everything that they're guilty on onto others. It's just so blatant and obvious.
 
2013-10-13 06:50:19 PM  

MrBallou: So he's saying he wants destroy the economy of the USA to break our will, so he can declare independence?

Hell, he doesn't have to do that. We'll help him and his idiot friends pack and give them a ride to the border.


Not our border, please. We're too full of turkey and pumpkin pie to deal with this nonsense right now.
 
2013-10-13 06:56:34 PM  

God Is My Co-Pirate: MrBallou: So he's saying he wants destroy the economy of the USA to break our will, so he can declare independence?

Hell, he doesn't have to do that. We'll help him and his idiot friends pack and give them a ride to the border.

Not our border, please. We're too full of turkey and pumpkin pie to deal with this nonsense right now.


I meant the East or West border and to drop them off a couple of miles beyond, with lots and lots of gold coins in their pockets.
 
2013-10-13 06:59:57 PM  

LasersHurt: On the final day before the Debt Ceiling is met and shiat is scheduled to go haywire, I hope the President holds a prime-time interruption and announces an Executive Action of some sort to end this charade. Go over Congress' heads.


What, precisely? That's not a challenge, I honestly don't know what the Constitutin would allow.
 
2013-10-13 07:05:49 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: LasersHurt: On the final day before the Debt Ceiling is met and shiat is scheduled to go haywire, I hope the President holds a prime-time interruption and announces an Executive Action of some sort to end this charade. Go over Congress' heads.

What, precisely? That's not a challenge, I honestly don't know what the Constitutin would allow.


Uhhh so you're advocating dictatorship??
 
2013-10-13 07:06:19 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: LasersHurt: On the final day before the Debt Ceiling is met and shiat is scheduled to go haywire, I hope the President holds a prime-time interruption and announces an Executive Action of some sort to end this charade. Go over Congress' heads.

What, precisely? That's not a challenge, I honestly don't know what the Constitutin would allow.


It's Obama, silly. The Constitution allows whatever he says it allows.

/sarcasm off
 
2013-10-13 07:06:29 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: LasersHurt: On the final day before the Debt Ceiling is met and shiat is scheduled to go haywire, I hope the President holds a prime-time interruption and announces an Executive Action of some sort to end this charade. Go over Congress' heads.

What, precisely? That's not a challenge, I honestly don't know what the Constitutin would allow.


I'm honestly not 100% sure myself. I've heard lots of suggestions that the 14th amendment could factor in.
 
2013-10-13 07:08:08 PM  

LasersHurt: On the final day before the Debt Ceiling is met and shiat is scheduled to go haywire, I hope the President holds a prime-time interruption and announces an Executive Action of some sort to end this charade. Go over Congress' heads.


Anyone know the legalities of this?
 
2013-10-13 07:08:22 PM  
Peki:

It's Obama, silly. The Constitution allows whatever he says it allows.


Why is that sarcasm? That is what Lincoln believed and Obama swore his oath of office on Lincoln's Bible.
 
2013-10-13 07:08:40 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: LasersHurt: On the final day before the Debt Ceiling is met and shiat is scheduled to go haywire, I hope the President holds a prime-time interruption and announces an Executive Action of some sort to end this charade. Go over Congress' heads.

What, precisely? That's not a challenge, I honestly don't know what the Constitutin would allow.


No one seems to know. A lot of Constitutional scholars seem to believe that he could invoke the 14th Amendment on fairly firm ground, but whether the Supremes would agree is anyone's guess.
 
2013-10-13 07:09:12 PM  
****snap*****

Ow, I think that was the last of my sanity

i really don't know why i ever bothered to keep my mental sh*t together, this guy is getting paid to be a f*ckwit

why, why did i bother
 
2013-10-13 07:10:38 PM  

Gergesa: LasersHurt: On the final day before the Debt Ceiling is met and shiat is scheduled to go haywire, I hope the President holds a prime-time interruption and announces an Executive Action of some sort to end this charade. Go over Congress' heads.

Anyone know the legalities of this?


It is patently unconstitutional otherwise he's have already done it. And I don't know why any sound democrat would want him too. Obama hates the idea of the "imperial presidency" as much as I do.
 
2013-10-13 07:10:42 PM  
The t-tards are such traitors.
Crash the U.S. economy just because their depends diapers are just about to run out and the government is making sure no new supplies are allowed to be shipped.

I bet we could start up a fund to send the t-tards to their homeland in Somalia.

I know where there are a few old shipping containers. With just enough holes, so those mouth breathers can make it to their homeland in... :::future prediction coming in::: all right. Who the f*ck decided to eat the weakest t-tards in the container!??'

/Oh and for the DC police force... EMP their mobility scooters. Then call for the crane to lift that 500 pound sack of shiat up for transport to Gitmo.
 
2013-10-13 07:10:53 PM  

Kittypie070: ****snap*****

Ow, I think that was the last of my sanity

i really don't know why i ever bothered to keep my mental sh*t together, this guy is getting paid to be a f*ckwit

why, why did i bother


OMG, dude. I'm laughing way harder than I should at this.

/today is not a good day
 
2013-10-13 07:11:24 PM  
The Founders ARE gods.

/Victory is life!
 
2013-10-13 07:11:38 PM  

worlddan: Gergesa: LasersHurt: On the final day before the Debt Ceiling is met and shiat is scheduled to go haywire, I hope the President holds a prime-time interruption and announces an Executive Action of some sort to end this charade. Go over Congress' heads.

Anyone know the legalities of this?

It is patently unconstitutional otherwise he's have already done it. And I don't know why any sound democrat would want him too. Obama hates the idea of the "imperial presidency" as much as I do.


What is patently unconstitutional? What, specifically? You sound quite sure that "it" is, whatever "it" means.
 
2013-10-13 07:11:42 PM  
I like to remember Washington as the president who personally led an army to put down a rebellion of people who didn't want to pay taxes.

/make it happen, BOB
 
2013-10-13 07:12:22 PM  

Albino Squid: Benevolent Misanthrope: LasersHurt: On the final day before the Debt Ceiling is met and shiat is scheduled to go haywire, I hope the President holds a prime-time interruption and announces an Executive Action of some sort to end this charade. Go over Congress' heads.

What, precisely? That's not a challenge, I honestly don't know what the Constitutin would allow.

No one seems to know. A lot of Constitutional scholars seem to believe that he could invoke the 14th Amendment on fairly firm ground, but whether the Supremes would agree is anyone's guess.


I've read some articles about that but I can only guess that Obama would hesitate because the Republicans are always searching for something to impeach him on.

The fact that he is a democrat isn't something they can impeach him on.
 
2013-10-13 07:13:06 PM  
Just somebody kick him in the fork.
 
2013-10-13 07:13:08 PM  

Albino Squid: A lot of Constitutional scholars seem to believe that he could invoke the 14th Amendment on fairly firm ground


Some are but none of those actually work for the Administration, see, and not one of them has to make the decision, see, and those who do work for the Administration, see, and are tasked with the responsibility for making the decision, see,  think those who talking about the 14A are selling horseshiat to increase page views.
 
2013-10-13 07:13:45 PM  

LasersHurt: worlddan: Gergesa: LasersHurt: On the final day before the Debt Ceiling is met and shiat is scheduled to go haywire, I hope the President holds a prime-time interruption and announces an Executive Action of some sort to end this charade. Go over Congress' heads.

Anyone know the legalities of this?

It is patently unconstitutional otherwise he's have already done it. And I don't know why any sound democrat would want him too. Obama hates the idea of the "imperial presidency" as much as I do.

What is patently unconstitutional? What, specifically? You sound quite sure that "it" is, whatever "it" means.


Also: hasn't done it because we haven't actually defaulted yet. I have no doubt he has a team of legal scholars that have 50 IQ points on the both of us that will keep his butt as clean as possible (SCOTUS shenanigans notwithstanding).
 
2013-10-13 07:14:09 PM  
"We have to make a decision that's right long-term for the United States, and what may be distasteful, unpleasant and not appropriate in the short run may be something that has to be done,"

Defunding the ACA is not something that has to be done. In fact it's something that shouldn't be done.

Deliberately crashing the global economy is something that should bring you up on charges.

The rhetoric I've been hearing from the RW grapevine online is calling the shutdown a "slimdown" as if the GOP are the only adults in the room displaying some tough love and putting the country on a long overdue diet. It started when the sequester happened and it's only gotten worse.

It's less like a diet and more like someone stabbing oneself repeatedly in the belly with a fork until they start bleeding out of several small holes and thinking that by doing so they are losing weight and making themselves look svelte and healthy instead of, you know, ...suicidal and crazy.
 
2013-10-13 07:16:09 PM  

Peki: LasersHurt: worlddan: Gergesa: LasersHurt: On the final day before the Debt Ceiling is met and shiat is scheduled to go haywire, I hope the President holds a prime-time interruption and announces an Executive Action of some sort to end this charade. Go over Congress' heads.

Anyone know the legalities of this?

It is patently unconstitutional otherwise he's have already done it. And I don't know why any sound democrat would want him too. Obama hates the idea of the "imperial presidency" as much as I do.

What is patently unconstitutional? What, specifically? You sound quite sure that "it" is, whatever "it" means.

Also: hasn't done it because we haven't actually defaulted yet. I have no doubt he has a team of legal scholars that have 50 IQ points on the both of us that will keep his butt as clean as possible (SCOTUS shenanigans notwithstanding).


This. I don't claim to know precisely what he might do, but I would bet my last cent he's looked into it with the brightest legal minds he can get a hold of. When it gets to the "11th hour", we'll see if anything happens.
 
2013-10-13 07:16:36 PM  

Virulency: Benevolent Misanthrope: LasersHurt: On the final day before the Debt Ceiling is met and shiat is scheduled to go haywire, I hope the President holds a prime-time interruption and announces an Executive Action of some sort to end this charade. Go over Congress' heads.

What, precisely? That's not a challenge, I honestly don't know what the Constitutin would allow.

Uhhh so you're advocating dictatorship??


I hope not. That would be a terrible precedent to set. The executive branch has amassed quite a bit of power in the past 50 years, particularly the last decade. Doing this would render the legislative branch almost useless since any president could just directly finance the government at whatever level he wants. Add that to the signing statements and executive orders and you end up with a very very powerful executive branch with the door to a dictatorship wide open.
 
2013-10-13 07:17:14 PM  
Gergesa:
I've read some articles about that but I can only guess that Obama would hesitate because the Republicans are always searching for something to impeach him on.

He has hesitated because it'd be a genuine constitutional crisis no matter what the eventual outcome. If we get to the last minute, the only question is whether a constitutional crisis is better than an economic one.
 
2013-10-13 07:17:56 PM  
All this drama-queenery by republicans simply because the right wing just cannot STAND the thought of poor people NOT writhing in pain or dying. The level of sadism they have for the disadvantaged is staggering.
 
2013-10-13 07:18:00 PM  
Seriously the part about these people that gets me is how they seem to think they're "winning" this. That somehow the democrats are going to hang for all of it. They ignore the fact that all of the moderates they sold the fiscal responsibility line of shiat 2010 to get elected are seeing what is going on and will remember next year. They may not lose control but they are going to lose seats.
 
2013-10-13 07:18:16 PM  

nubzers: Doing this would render the legislative branch almost useless since any president could just directly finance the government at whatever level he wants.


In what possible way could you think this is the case? I mean, can you justify this with anything at all? Ending a shutdown would empower them to spend whatever they want?
 
2013-10-13 07:18:24 PM  

Albino Squid: Gergesa:
I've read some articles about that but I can only guess that Obama would hesitate because the Republicans are always searching for something to impeach him on.

He has hesitated because it'd be a genuine constitutional crisis no matter what the eventual outcome. If we get to the last minute, the only question is whether a constitutional crisis is better than an economic one.


That too.
 
2013-10-13 07:19:36 PM  

TV's Vinnie: All this drama-queenery by republicans simply because the right wing just cannot STAND the thought of poor people NOT writhing in pain or dying. The level of sadism they have for the disadvantaged is staggering.


Makes total sense in the context of the "economic Calvinism" though.
 
2013-10-13 07:19:54 PM  

Mugato: It's amusing how consistent the Republicans are at their projection. Meaning they attribute everything that they're guilty on onto others. It's just so blatant and obvious.


I think Freud once called this type of mental disorder "totally B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B!"
 
2013-10-13 07:22:20 PM  

NFA: Deliberately damaging the nation and it's economy is not treason, nope, not treasonous at all.

What a god damn traitor!

trea·son
ˈtrēzən/
noun
1.the crime of betraying one's country,

 
The only definition that matters in the USA can be found In the US Constitution, in section 3 of article III:

 "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. "
 
2013-10-13 07:22:46 PM  

TV's Vinnie: All this drama-queenery by republicans simply because the right wing just cannot STAND the thought of poor people NOT writhing in pain or dying. The level of sadism they have for the disadvantaged is staggering.


Nah. This is about holding power. And the Tea Party is exercising it in order to claim more.
 
2013-10-13 07:23:14 PM  
Here's the part where we mention:

1. The US went massively in debt to fund the American Revolution. An even higher ratio of debt:GDP than today.
2. Debt isn't necessarily a bad thing. Germany, Japan, France, and even Canada have higher debt:GDP ratios than the US does. Think of it as having a mortgage: as low as you continue your payments in a timely manner, that debt can actually help you.
3. What's important is what percentage of the budget is being taken up by interest payments. Ours is actually low right now.
4. The people doing the criticism think gold is a reasonable basis for a national economy. Despite the evidence, the opinions of every economist who is worth a damn, and the conclusions of multiple independent panels (including one by Reagan) pulled together to study the matter.

QED: not only does this person not know what the fark he's talking about, he REALLY DOESN'T KNOW WHAT THE fark HE'S TALKING ABOUT.
 
2013-10-13 07:26:37 PM  

whistleridge: 1. The US went massively in debt to fund the American Revolution. An even higher ratio of debt:GDP than today.


And some citzens didn't think they should have to pay for that debt. And you know what George Washington did? He sent troops down to talk to those traitors at gun point.
 
2013-10-13 07:26:44 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: LasersHurt: On the final day before the Debt Ceiling is met and shiat is scheduled to go haywire, I hope the President holds a prime-time interruption and announces an Executive Action of some sort to end this charade. Go over Congress' heads.

What, precisely? That's not a challenge, I honestly don't know what the Constitutin would allow.


A trillion dollar coin minted with Boehner's face on it.
 
2013-10-13 07:27:32 PM  

ScaryBottles: Seriously the part about these people that gets me is how they seem to think they're "winning" this. That somehow the democrats are going to hang for all of it. They ignore the fact that all of the moderates they sold the fiscal responsibility line of shiat 2010 to get elected are seeing what is going on and will remember next year. They may not lose control but they are going to lose seats.


You're using "hang for it" figuratively here, but I think it'll be literal. If we crash the debt ceiling, there's an immediate reaction of a lot of really bad things that happen as a consequence. It's riots and rebellion territory the longer it goes on. They're worried that they may lose their seats. What they should be worried about is another Jared Loughner or somebody throwing a moltov into their living room.

It's not going to be pretty.
 
2013-10-13 07:28:19 PM  
Is there any country that the Republicans hate more than the US?
Apparently, they hate democracy, republics, and any form of government where they can't get their minority way.

They sure are good with excuses though - quantity, rather than quality.
 
2013-10-13 07:30:05 PM  
Obama:
"His values are strongly shaped by his expertise as a Constitutional law professor and civil rights attorney, and by Christianity."

He knows his shiat.....
 
2013-10-13 07:30:06 PM  

God Is My Co-Pirate: MrBallou: So he's saying he wants destroy the economy of the USA to break our will, so he can declare independence?

Hell, he doesn't have to do that. We'll help him and his idiot friends pack and give them a ride to the border.

Not our border, please. We're too full of turkey and pumpkin pie to deal with this nonsense right now.


Nah, I'm thinking the coastline.  We can take them to the ocean, put them on a raft, or a rowboat, and let them be independent.
/Although some of them might be at home on a dinghy.
 
2013-10-13 07:31:12 PM  

MrBallou: So he's saying he wants destroy the economy of the USA to break our will, so he can declare independence?


well...actually, the tea derpers seem to believe that if they break the will of the average worker/voter in this country, then they can carefully rebuild society in their image.  which is of course stronger, pure and powerful.  the fact that they want to achieve this utopia over the dead bodies of the rest of us is simply a price they're willing to pay.  we're supposed to lay down and die to achieve this paradise on earth.
 
2013-10-13 07:31:16 PM  

LasersHurt: nubzers: Doing this would render the legislative branch almost useless since any president could just directly finance the government at whatever level he wants.

In what possible way could you think this is the case? I mean, can you justify this with anything at all? Ending a shutdown would empower them to spend whatever they want?


My thinking is that if he goes around congress and invokes the 14th, at what level of funding would he continue the government at? Sequester level or pre-sequester? There isn't a budget in place, and not a lot of guidance for this situation. And I'm thinking farther down the line with future presidents. When they wrote that amendment, they surely didn't intend it to be used in a situation like this. So if Obama did use it, even with the best of intentions, it could set a bad precedent for situations we can't foresee.

I'm just wary of short term solutions with long term implications.
 
2013-10-13 07:31:40 PM  

whistleridge: 3. What's important is what percentage of the budget is being taken up by interest payments. Ours is actually low right now.


Which will change if they keep damaging the country's credit rating by not budging on the debt ceiling.
 
2013-10-13 07:31:57 PM  

RedPhoenix122: God Is My Co-Pirate: MrBallou: So he's saying he wants destroy the economy of the USA to break our will, so he can declare independence?

Hell, he doesn't have to do that. We'll help him and his idiot friends pack and give them a ride to the border.

Not our border, please. We're too full of turkey and pumpkin pie to deal with this nonsense right now.

Nah, I'm thinking the coastline.  We can take them to the ocean, put them on a raft, or a rowboat, and let them be independent.
/Although some of them might be at home on a dinghy.


What do you call 12 lawyers chained together at the bottom of ocean?

/sub politicians and the joke still fits
 
2013-10-13 07:33:31 PM  

RedPhoenix122: whistleridge: 3. What's important is what percentage of the budget is being taken up by interest payments. Ours is actually low right now.

Which will change if they keep damaging the country's credit rating by not budging on the debt ceiling.


Very true. So in fact, they're making the problem worse, not better. Ignorance and economies just don't mix.
 
2013-10-13 07:33:32 PM  

Albino Squid: Benevolent Misanthrope: LasersHurt: On the final day before the Debt Ceiling is met and shiat is scheduled to go haywire, I hope the President holds a prime-time interruption and announces an Executive Action of some sort to end this charade. Go over Congress' heads.

What, precisely? That's not a challenge, I honestly don't know what the Constitutin would allow.

No one seems to know. A lot of Constitutional scholars seem to believe that he could invoke the 14th Amendment on fairly firm ground, but whether the Supremes would agree is anyone's guess.


I rather doubt the Supreme Court would ever rule on the matter, if it came to that. (Issues of standing aside, I just don't see the Court wanting to wade into this political clusterfark.) But, I doubt it will come to that anyway. There's just no point in exercising the constitutional option. If the only thing standing between the US and default is a legally dubious, unilateral executive action, the markets will treat US debt no differently than if it had defaulted. The debt is junk either way. Mox nix.
 
2013-10-13 07:33:57 PM  

nubzers: LasersHurt: nubzers: Doing this would render the legislative branch almost useless since any president could just directly finance the government at whatever level he wants.

In what possible way could you think this is the case? I mean, can you justify this with anything at all? Ending a shutdown would empower them to spend whatever they want?

My thinking is that if he goes around congress and invokes the 14th, at what level of funding would he continue the government at? Sequester level or pre-sequester? There isn't a budget in place, and not a lot of guidance for this situation. And I'm thinking farther down the line with future presidents. When they wrote that amendment, they surely didn't intend it to be used in a situation like this. So if Obama did use it, even with the best of intentions, it could set a bad precedent for situations we can't foresee.

I'm just wary of short term solutions with long term implications.


I am more assuming he'd do it to avoid a Debt Ceiling/Default issue, not so much for the budget level - that I'd guess would be continued at current levels. I still imagine he'll hold out for congressional negotiations to get a permanent budget.
 
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