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(Scranton Times-Tribune)   "Well let's have a camera car to make sure people are actually paying for two hours of parking"   (thetimes-tribune.com) divider line 70
    More: Interesting, parking meters, Scranton, camera cars, parking, speed limits, cameras, parking spaces  
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8468 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Oct 2013 at 5:43 PM (45 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-12 05:09:32 PM
As many crazy people in this world as we have, how come nobody is shooting/spraying/silly stringing/paint balling/etc these goddamn cameras? How far will these jive turkey's push us with their automated tax enforcement bullshiat before we as a people rise up violently?
 
2013-10-12 05:28:30 PM

Livingroom: As many crazy people in this world as we have, how come nobody is shooting/spraying/silly stringing/paint balling/etc these goddamn cameras? How far will these jive turkey's push us with their automated tax enforcement bullshiat before we as a people rise up violently?


i105.photobucket.com
 
2013-10-12 05:45:48 PM
Wouldn't it be cheaper to go with more "camera" and less "car"?
 
2013-10-12 05:49:42 PM

Livingroom: As many crazy people in this world as we have, how come nobody is shooting/spraying/silly stringing/paint balling/etc these goddamn cameras? How far will these jive turkey's push us with their automated tax enforcement bullshiat before we as a people rise up violently?


I live in Montreal. We had a tax on a tax until recently. Taxes are going up with almost no limit and we know most of it goes to waste. No one cares.
 
2013-10-12 05:50:15 PM
Funny, my town is having a problem with the meters being fast, so while people are paying for 2 hours their getting 1:45 and a twenty dollar ticket.
 
2013-10-12 05:52:14 PM

Skyrmion: Wouldn't it be cheaper to go with more "camera" and less "car"?


Or a box of colored chalk.  One hour, walk down the rows, put a green chalk line on each tire.  Next hour, red chalk.  Third hour, blue chalk.  And so on.

Got three colored chalk lines?  Ticket.   Done for five dollars plus minimum wage.
 
2013-10-12 05:52:58 PM
If I read the article correctly, it was about enforcing the two hour time limit, not whether people were paying to park.
 
2013-10-12 05:53:33 PM

tjsands1118: Funny, my town is having a problem with the meters being fast, so while people are paying for 2 hours their getting 1:45 and a twenty dollar ticket.


$20, what a cheap parking ticket. Hell, around here I'd go downtown and park, take the ticket and it'd be cheaper than paying for a place to park.
 
2013-10-12 05:53:52 PM
I'm shocked that this is a privatized public activity, where the new "owners" if down town posting are trying to make more money...
 
2013-10-12 05:55:54 PM
What if someone steals the car?
 
2013-10-12 05:59:05 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: Livingroom: As many crazy people in this world as we have, how come nobody is shooting/spraying/silly stringing/paint balling/etc these goddamn cameras? How far will these jive turkey's push us with their automated tax enforcement bullshiat before we as a people rise up violently?

I live in Montreal. We had a tax on a tax until recently. Taxes are going up with almost no limit and we know most of it goes to waste. No one cares.


Seems unlikely that no one cares.  Perhaps only poor people don't care.
 
2013-10-12 06:03:20 PM

Cpl.D: Skyrmion: Wouldn't it be cheaper to go with more "camera" and less "car"?

Or a box of colored chalk.  One hour, walk down the rows, put a green chalk line on each tire.  Next hour, red chalk.  Third hour, blue chalk.  And so on.

Got three colored chalk lines?  Ticket.   Done for five dollars plus minimum wage.


1) It could be argued that it was vandalizing the cars. (People have been given tickets for using chalk on the sidewalk, for instance).

2) What if I park the next day, and the chalk from yesterday is still on the tire(s)?

3) So, all I need to park all day is a damp rag to wipe the chalk line(s) off??
 
2013-10-12 06:06:37 PM

fredklein: 1) It could be argued that it was vandalizing the cars. (People have been given tickets for using chalk on the sidewalk, for instance).


Paying for the parking place implies consent.

2) What if I park the next day, and the chalk from yesterday is still on the tire(s)?

Very unlikely that they'd be positioned in the same place you'd mark it at.  Plus you can change out the rotation of colors.

3) So, all I need to park all day is a damp rag to wipe the chalk line(s) off??

Hire someone with a halfway reasonable memory.

This method is still cheaper.
 
2013-10-12 06:07:13 PM
If you can leave after the camera car makes a pass, and return to find the same spot open, then this is useless.

/how long do you have to be gone before it stops being 2hrs continuous parking?
/how much will it cost in gas and tech to have this done when you could pay someone to ride a bicycle around doing it?
 
2013-10-12 06:07:31 PM
Thanks for adding even more parking stress to me when I have to do something in STown, meter people. Thank you, ever so very much. Not like my doc's office makes me wait 1.5 hrs to begin with. And I hate the garage on Adams that tricks you into thinking you can use it!
 
2013-10-12 06:08:11 PM
i like how the car takes up an extra space.  so while the two hour limit is enforced so more people may park, the car taking up an entire space all day reduces the number of people able to park.
 
2013-10-12 06:09:47 PM
Pittsburgh took out all the meters and replaced them with kiosks that accept cash or credit. I haven't tried, but I would assume if you pay for the maximum, then go back and try to extend it it won't accept it. On the plus side, you can pay for 4 hours, leave for lunch or something else, then come back and park in the same zone without paying again.
 
2013-10-12 06:13:16 PM

Livingroom: As many crazy people in this world as we have, how come nobody is shooting/spraying/silly stringing/paint balling/etc these goddamn cameras? How far will these jive turkey's push us with their automated tax enforcement bullshiat before we as a people rise up violently?


http://www.wtop.com/41/3025740/Md-man-who-destroyed-a-speed-cam-warn s- others
 
2013-10-12 06:15:06 PM

fredklein: Cpl.D: Skyrmion: Wouldn't it be cheaper to go with more "camera" and less "car"?

Or a box of colored chalk.  One hour, walk down the rows, put a green chalk line on each tire.  Next hour, red chalk.  Third hour, blue chalk.  And so on.

Got three colored chalk lines?  Ticket.   Done for five dollars plus minimum wage.

1) It could be argued that it was vandalizing the cars. (People have been given tickets for using chalk on the sidewalk, for instance).

2) What if I park the next day, and the chalk from yesterday is still on the tire(s)?

3) So, all I need to park all day is a damp rag to wipe the chalk line(s) off??


1.  No it can't.

2.   A standard pack of chalk has 6 colors (for the sake of argument call them color #1-6).  The three hour marking schedule could look like: M-1/2/3, T, 2/3/4, W, 3/4/5, R 4/5/6, F 135, S 2/4/6, Su 12/34/56

3.  This shows that you are at least going back to your car, at which point you could move it to a new spot to restart your timer anyway.
 
2013-10-12 06:17:13 PM
I wonder if you can park for longer than 2 hours if you have 30,000 pounds of bananas?
 
2013-10-12 06:18:47 PM
"If someone stays at a meter, whether or not they fed the meter again, they have to move it."

Wait... WHAT?

If I feed the meter again that means I've paid for more time.
 
2013-10-12 06:20:52 PM
Everyone has apparently missed this total bullshiat clause FTFA:

"If someone stays at a meter, whether or not they fed the meter again, they have to move it."

As long as the meter's getting fed, who gives a flying fark which vehicle is sitting in the spot?
 
2013-10-12 06:21:11 PM

RogermcAllen: fredklein: Cpl.D: Skyrmion: Wouldn't it be cheaper to go with more "camera" and less "car"?

Or a box of colored chalk.  One hour, walk down the rows, put a green chalk line on each tire.  Next hour, red chalk.  Third hour, blue chalk.  And so on.

Got three colored chalk lines?  Ticket.   Done for five dollars plus minimum wage.

1) It could be argued that it was vandalizing the cars. (People have been given tickets for using chalk on the sidewalk, for instance).

2) What if I park the next day, and the chalk from yesterday is still on the tire(s)?

3) So, all I need to park all day is a damp rag to wipe the chalk line(s) off??

1.  No it can't.

2.   A standard pack of chalk has 6 colors (for the sake of argument call them color #1-6).  The three hour marking schedule could look like: M-1/2/3, T, 2/3/4, W, 3/4/5, R 4/5/6, F 135, S 2/4/6, Su 12/34/56

3.  This shows that you are at least going back to your car, at which point you could move it to a new spot to restart your timer anyway.


the town of Winchester, TN. uses this method to enforce a 2hr parking limit. a deputy with a piece of chalk on a stick walks by and marks the driver side front tire with a vertical line from the bottom-up - so if the wheel is moved, the line is no longer vertical- if he comes back in two hours and sees a yellow vertical line, $16 ticket. all tires are marked at 8am, 10am, 12pm, 2pm, 4pm. the 2hr limit lifts at 5, so anything after that is free parking. it works remarkably well, but then its a small town. if you want to extend the 2hr limit, simply go to another spot. in the extremely unlikely event that your line lines up perfectly vertically in this new spot, i dont know what would happen. but the chances of it lining up perfectly straight in the new spot are astronomical. either way, the system works. any arguments against having a person walking the beat are just arguments against exercise.
 
2013-10-12 06:24:46 PM
Hey, Scranton city hall?  This, this sh*t here?  This is pathetic.
 
pla
2013-10-12 06:26:18 PM
Cpl.D : Paying for the parking place implies consent

Paying for the parking space also implies that you have paid for the parking space.

I suspect most of the people in this discussion haven't R'dTFA, so let me quote this gem: If someone stays at a meter, whether or not they fed the meter again, they have to move it. (emphasis mine).

This has nothing to do with the normal "city whores out the public commons for a few quarters per hour", and more to do with control, control, control, absolute farking control.

On the one hand, they will claim they do this "for the businesses", so they have a steady stream of customer turnover. The reality? This only affects people who work for those businesses who haven't provided somewhere legal for their employees to park. Fark 'em! You can't pay for your minimum wage lackeys to park, expecting them to park a mile away and take a pleasant stroll through the ghetto... And now whine to the city that your own goddamned employees have taken up a public parking space? You seriously need to DIAF, Apu.
 
2013-10-12 06:27:35 PM

Livingroom: As many crazy people in this world as we have, how come nobody is shooting/spraying/silly stringing/paint balling/etc these goddamn cameras? How far will these jive turkey's push us with their automated tax enforcement bullshiat before we as a people rise up violently?


"Jive Turkeys"??? What are you like 70 years old??
 
2013-10-12 06:29:54 PM

Disgruntled Goat: Everyone has apparently missed this total bullshiat clause FTFA:

"If someone stays at a meter, whether or not they fed the meter again, they have to move it."

As long as the meter's getting fed, who gives a flying fark which vehicle is sitting in the spot?


Maybe you missed where TFA said "For storefronts and retail businesses, you want to open up parking spaces so people can come downtown for lunch or to shop," Mr. Boland said. "If you're working downtown, use a parking garage."

So, I assume the owners of the stores and businesses give a flying fark.
 
2013-10-12 06:31:25 PM

SlothB77: i like how the car takes up an extra space.  so while the two hour limit is enforced so more people may park, the car taking up an entire space all day reduces the number of people able to park.


The car is supposedly driving around. It doesn't need a space.
 
2013-10-12 06:31:29 PM

fredklein: 3) So, all I need to park all day is a damp rag to wipe the chalk line(s) off??


The town  I grew up in used the chalk method. I used to do the wet rag trick. Not just to my car... everyone's car on the street.
 
2013-10-12 06:31:53 PM
I have one simple request, and that is to have a car with frickin' cameras on its roof.
 
2013-10-12 06:35:08 PM
www.007db5.com
i.imgur.com
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-10-12 06:38:18 PM
I will again recommend The High Cost of Free Parking (and again say I don't agree with all its recommendations). Donald Shoup points out two flaws with time limits:

1. Time limits are an economically unsound way to allocate parking spaces.

2. Traditional American enforcement practices encourage people to try to get away with overtime parking, when it would be better to train people to think of parking as a resource they are buying. Most people don't shoplift, but most people are willing to steal parking space time.
 
2013-10-12 06:54:52 PM

Caller Number 5: Livingroom: As many crazy people in this world as we have, how come nobody is shooting/spraying/silly stringing/paint balling/etc these goddamn cameras? How far will these jive turkey's push us with their automated tax enforcement bullshiat before we as a people rise up violently?

"Jive Turkeys"??? What are you like 70 years old??


heh, no. i'm 30
 
2013-10-12 07:09:48 PM
I guess this replaces meter maids and marking tires with a 10 cent piece of chalk. Progress.
 
2013-10-12 07:15:50 PM
Cpl.D:

Hire someone with a halfway reasonable memory.

This method is still cheaper.


I actually used to work for this company once upon a time. The maintenance guys you see walking around fixing things and cleaning garbage? I did that. I also kept track of who parked where and when. It was a hell of a lot cheaper than camera cars. 

But then again, the average IQ of parking garage maintenance guys is not that high. 

It was a fun job, though. Work outside all day, made friends with the office workers, got to take lunch in the park. Good times.
 
2013-10-12 07:16:17 PM

Caller Number 5: What are you like 70 years old??


What are you?  Like twelve?
 
2013-10-12 07:16:21 PM

Caller Number 5: "Jive Turkeys"??? What are you like 70 years old??


I don't see the problem.  If turkeys don't like bein' called out for jivin', the quickest fix is for turkeys not to be jivin',

Parents, talk to your children.  Teach them turkeys not to be jivin'.
 
2013-10-12 07:20:40 PM
"primary use" ticket those over 2 hours. Secondary use they don't mention. Fines, tickets etcetera for any and every infraction they can find. Registration expired at midnight? One day overdue for Inspection? Big cash, lots of prizes. Tow it to the impound, charge you for that and storage.
 
2013-10-12 07:24:13 PM

Cpl.D: fredklein: 1) It could be argued that it was vandalizing the cars. (People have been given tickets for using chalk on the sidewalk, for instance).

Paying for the parking place implies consent.


Posting further in this thread implies consent for me to punch you in the nose.

2) What if I park the next day, and the chalk from yesterday is still on the tire(s)?

Very unlikely that they'd be positioned in the same place you'd mark it at.  Plus you can change out the rotation of colors.


Weirder things have happened.

3) So, all I need to park all day is a damp rag to wipe the chalk line(s) off??

Hire someone with a halfway reasonable memory.


Why not just hire someone with a really good memory, or, better yet, use a camera to record who's parked where. Hey... wait a minute....
 
2013-10-12 07:27:30 PM
They are in Scranton. They should be begging people to visit, not enforcing a 2 hour time limit.
 
2013-10-12 07:31:22 PM

RogermcAllen: fredklein: Cpl.D: Skyrmion: Wouldn't it be cheaper to go with more "camera" and less "car"?

Or a box of colored chalk.  One hour, walk down the rows, put a green chalk line on each tire.  Next hour, red chalk.  Third hour, blue chalk.  And so on.

Got three colored chalk lines?  Ticket.   Done for five dollars plus minimum wage.

1) It could be argued that it was vandalizing the cars. (People have been given tickets for using chalk on the sidewalk, for instance).

2) What if I park the next day, and the chalk from yesterday is still on the tire(s)?

3) So, all I need to park all day is a damp rag to wipe the chalk line(s) off??

1.  No it can't.


Why not? As I said before, people have gotten tickets before for using chalk on sidewalks. At least in that case, it's public property, which the argument could be made that the people themselves partially own. But cars are private property.

2.   A standard pack of chalk has 6 colors (for the sake of argument call them color #1-6).  The three hour marking schedule could look like: M-1/2/3, T, 2/3/4, W, 3/4/5, R 4/5/6, F 135, S 2/4/6, Su 12/34/56

And you expect a min-wage meter maid to keep that straight?

3.  This shows that you are at least going back to your car, at which point you could move it to a new spot to restart your timer anyway.

If there's a new spot nearby. Or at all. And remember Angle Grinder Man? It'd be a lot easier to be Wet Rag Man.
 
2013-10-12 07:33:52 PM

Livingroom: the town of Winchester, TN. uses this method to enforce a 2hr parking limit. a deputy with a piece of chalk on a stick walks by and marks the driver side front tire with a vertical line from the bottom-up - so if the wheel is moved, the line is no longer vertical- if he comes back in two hours and sees a yellow vertical line, $16 ticket. all tires are marked at 8am, 10am, 12pm, 2pm, 4pm. the 2hr limit lifts at 5, so anything after that is free parking. it works remarkably well, but then its a small town. if you want to extend the 2hr limit, simply go to another spot.


... or just roll the car forward/backward a few inches, thus making the line non-vertical. Lather, rinse, repeat all day.
 
2013-10-12 07:36:03 PM

fredklein: Posting further in this thread implies consent for me to punch you in the nose.


We never had an initial contract.  I didn't pay to park on your property.  Your analogy is garbage.

Weirder things have happened.

So?  Still cheaper then wiring a car with cameras.

Why not just hire someone with a really good memory, or, better yet, use a camera to record who's parked where. Hey... wait a minute....

The premise of the chalk argument is it is cheaper.  Remember?  Do try to keep up.
 
2013-10-12 07:48:19 PM
I live in a town where at least once a year, the local council debates pay parking.
The downtown business association always shoots it down. They'd rather pay higher business taxes than have their customers who they have worked hard to keep hassled by some power-tripping asshole in a uniform.

Of course, the Councillors are all loaded and probably get chauffeured everywhere, so parking is never an issue with them.

Result - the downtown business district has remained lively and viable for the 15 years I've been here. Even if a business moves out, another one takes its place in a month.

However, a neighboring town of exactly the same size went ahead an put in those damn parking meters. Result - about 60% of the properties are vacant. All the shoppers took their business to the shopping malls and big box places where they can park all day with zero hassle.  The amount the town collects from the meters probably doesn't pay the wages of the parking enforcement agent.
 
2013-10-12 07:57:37 PM

tetsoushima: I guess this replaces meter maids and marking tires with a 10 cent piece of chalk. Progress.


One statistic you never hear about is the number of meter maids dying in the line of duty. It should be very, very high.
 
2013-10-12 08:08:49 PM
TFA missed 2 important pieces of info:

1. how much is all this camera enforcement going to cost? (camera equipment, car, driver, insurance, GAS, etc)
2. how much is the ticket?

Nice to know but not necessary: cost to park at the meter for 2 hours, cost to park in the garage, how long they keep the data, if they are intending to sell/share the collected data.
 
2013-10-12 08:31:57 PM

fredklein: Livingroom: the town of Winchester, TN. uses this method to enforce a 2hr parking limit. a deputy with a piece of chalk on a stick walks by and marks the driver side front tire with a vertical line from the bottom-up - so if the wheel is moved, the line is no longer vertical- if he comes back in two hours and sees a yellow vertical line, $16 ticket. all tires are marked at 8am, 10am, 12pm, 2pm, 4pm. the 2hr limit lifts at 5, so anything after that is free parking. it works remarkably well, but then its a small town. if you want to extend the 2hr limit, simply go to another spot.

... or just roll the car forward/backward a few inches, thus making the line non-vertical. Lather, rinse, repeat all day.


i hadnt thought of that, but i'm unwilling to try it... the deputy might recall that i parked there and not appreciate the rolling back/forth
 
2013-10-12 09:23:26 PM
I bet I could rig up a bike with one of these cameras and pay a homeless guy to ride it around for 1/10th the cost.
 
2013-10-12 09:26:47 PM
And i'm sure they wont use the data for any other use. nope, not at all.
 
2013-10-12 09:27:22 PM

Cpl.D: fredklein: Posting further in this thread implies consent for me to punch you in the nose.

We never had an initial contract.


And I don't remember signing a contract when I dropped a quarter in the meter, so....

  I didn't pay to park on your property.  Your analogy is garbage.

And the streets are PUBLIC property, and thus belong to all. So, your analogy sucks.

So?  Still cheaper then wiring a car with cameras.

Really? True, their up-front costs are higher than a meter maid, but you don't need to pay cameras an hourly wage.

The premise of the chalk argument is it is cheaper.  Remember?  Do try to keep up.

So, you're seriously saying that hiring a bunch of people to walk around, marking tires with chalk (which needs to be paid for, too!) is cheaper than buying a camera and hiring ONE person to drive around?  I mean, let's assume the stereotypical 'ten cent piece of chalk'. Now, assume it lasts a day. And we need 6 colors. So, that's 60 cents per meter maid, per day. Assuming we need just 20 meter maids to cover the downtown area, that gives us a total, for the chalk alone, of $4380 per year. Now, 20 salaries (At $8 per hour, barely above min wage!) is an additional $332,800 per year.

Now compare that to a camera system. One camera, one driver to drive it around. How much does a good camera cost? $500? $1000? Even $2000?? Let's go crazy and say $10,000! Add the one driver's salary ($16,640, at $8 per hour), and you get less than 1/10 the cost of the chalking maids that first year. And since the camera doesn't need to be bought again, it's even more economical the second year.
 
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