Is anyone really surpised?????? The greatest worry in the nvasion of Iraq was street to street, house to house fighting, A LA WWII Germany. It didn't happen. Until now. You can't stop the inevitable. We are now cleaning up what we should have faced in the begining. The Iraqis had no idea we could move that fast. But now, some of them are fighting back. To be expected. If this would have happened 8 months ago, nobody would have said anything. But now, It's a big deal. Wait until the whole thing is over, and see if the loses are anywhere near what people expected for this operation. I doubt they will be.

Witnesses are saying two cars, and that the two DoD employees were searching one of the cars at the gate into the green zone when it was detonated. There also appears to have been a remote control roadside IED (maybe the witnesses mistook this for a second car bomb?)

This attack seems designed for maximum media attention. It also shows advanced operational planning - you'd be hard pressed to find a tighter security environment in the whole country to attack. It may or may not have been timed to ensure Iraqi casualties, possible though given the time (8AM) and the location on a major thoroughfare at the beginning of rush hour.

Does this sound like the MO of locals? I'm curious to find out what type of explosives were used. How the hell did they get that IED planted?

Ignorance is one thing, militant and willful ignorance are another... anothers... others. Arg. Umm... Me? I'm drunk and heading to bed. If I were emperor, things would be better.

Billions have been diverted from finding the terrorist responsible for 9/11.

Next time the terrorists attack in the US or UK, the Government should not be allowed to claim, "We couldn't stop it because they are everywhere!" They have allocated resources to this war that should have been spent tracking Al-Qaeda.

Interestingly, despite its military preparation, the Bush Administration has not released to the public any official estimate of the economic cost of conflict with Iraq.

They have badly over estimated the amount that Iraq could pay for their own reconstruction. I mean these guys are Oil men! Bush has an MBA. Do you think they would have been able to correctly estimate the oil production of the country? I could understand their estimate being off by a few billion, but they were off by 45 to 95 billion!

THEN
"The oil revenues of that country could bring between $50 billion and $100 billion over the course of the next two or three years, said Wolfowitz in front of the House Appropriations Committee.

NOW
US civilian administrator L. Paul Bremer has estimated that oil profits will not exceed production costs for the next two years. A surplus of perhaps $4 to $5 billion may be available by 2005

I'm tired of ignoring how much money that is spent in a war that is not making us safer. Do we really have to have another terrorist attack in the US by Al-Qaeda to show that we are NOT spending our money wisely in Iraq?

People always use the 87 billion number for this war. That doesn't cover all the money spent BEFORE they asked for the 87 billion. We need to know what we spent leading up to the war, and then include the interest on the money we had to borrow to pay for it. Even using 10 year treasury bonds we need to consider how much that interest will cost us.

"Donald Rumsfeld testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee on July 9 and in an interview on ABC's "This Week" on July 13 that the US military occupation is costing at least $3.9 billion a month."

"the cost of occupation is more accurately stated as $5.46 billion monthly, of which $1.56 billion is interest."
-http://costofwar.com/numbers.html

I don't understand how people who were in favor of GWB before the war still support him. If you are a millionaire I guess you are still happy. But it doesn't even appear to me that he is delivering for the people who aren't in that category.

I am not sure whether Bush is a Nazi. I think perhaps only time, when it changes to history will tell us. I waver between praise and condemnation, there are to many aspects to all this to be sure, and my opinion doesn't matter. I think that the Iraqis are a farkin crazy bunch of misfits. It took a person like Saddam to control people like this. They have a chance at freedom, and look what they do with it.

nhcfark, this attack could be the work of foreigners. Don't be so quick to condemn Iraqis. They didn't ask for any of this shiat, they're dealing with it. Don't forget who started this war.

Strongbad explosion?

Funny thing is, about a month or two ago, one of the Iraqi bloggers (can't remember if it was Salam Pax or Healing Iraq) talked about the line queueing up in front of the place, and said it would make a damned tempting target for all the whack-jobs running around over there.
I think its time to start making "examples." Or rather, let some of the families who just lost a member standing in line to feed them make some examples, once we catch some of these asshats. Like somebody once said: "the light poles in Baghdad weren't for light."

SherKhan, Aren't the one or two line song phrases are so much more effective and song provoking than when people post entire lyric sheets?

How many lives are acceptable? For me it would be about half of the worlds population. There are far too many of us and it is time to thin the herd.

Life is not special, it began 4-5 billion years ago and will continue long after we are gone.

edverb

This got al-queda written all over it. The collateral damage is the most extensive I have seen. It took a lot of new Iraqi dinars to set this up. Maybe that was what that planeload of new Iraqi currency being smuggled out that was caught was for. What was that all about?

nhcfark,

Where did you find that I would love to get a wall poster of it.

In case anyone cares today is the 111th anniversary of the overthrow of the Hawaiian Monarchy.

nhcfark Why does this have Al-Qaeda written all over it?

Does it involve Saudi Arabians? Does it involve multiple bombs going off at the same time in a well planned act that has been in planning for years? Maybe it involved a boat that sailed up to a US ship in a harbor?

Just keep throwing out those unfounded rumors. But what am I thinking? Insinuation worked great for Bush and Cheney for a long time until finally they ALL SAID, "There IS NO IRAQ Al-QAEDA CONNECTION." Really. Look it up. Yet because it worked so well people who have no better data to back up the claim will still throw it out there.

Right on choo, and right after their wedding they can go bungee jumping with a real rope.

UBL wants the US isolated in Iraq...orders attacks on allied forces, Iraqi police working with CPA, UN HQ, the Red Cross even (all suspected AQ, none stated as such by DoD to my knowledge). Create chaos so the US can't withdraw, but can't reinforce from the outside, test how soft the allies support. Death by a thousand cuts and all that.

This morning: a symbolic target at the perimeter of the Green Zone. Targeting Iraqi civilians working with CPA. The morning after we surpass 500 casualties, when the US is paying closer attention.

Yep, that sounds like al Queda.

By the way, who the hell didn't see this coming -- terrorist attacks on US troops, guerilla warfare, long hard expensive slog, civil unrest, troops guarding pipelines from sabotage, fractured domestic support. The events of this war should have had an obvious tag going back to September 2002, including the post-major-combat phase. Gen. Shinseki told them it would take 400K troops to do this right, they settled on 135K or so and outsourcing what they could. The only real surprise was that no WMD whatsoever have turned up. The lack of a meaningful nuclear program was not a surprise, unless you're name is Dick Cheney.

/there really is no satisfaction in saying "I told you so". It farking sucks, actually.

DrStrangelove

There's always a bright side...

One less suicide bomber in the world.

Yeah, suicide bombers are a self-solving problem, provided that there aren't any conditions in the area that create more. Unfortunately, there are. They're recruiting and we're occupying, both of which can convince the poverty-stricken or resentful that strapping dynamite to their bodies is anything other than a really bad idea.

Spocko

The ironic tag goes to the fact that al Queda wasn't in Iraq before (as they claimed), but they certainly are now (which they won't claim, even though it's true). We created a tremendous opportunity for AQ in Iraq by getting rid of the dictator there. AQ doesn't have to win, they merely have to not lose.

Farked up, right?

spocko

I reckon that it's al-quieda cause of the apparent sophistication to produce such a large explosion, using a Land Rover. I'm just putting my rumour into that tragedies futures mill. Oh yeh, kiss this... ().()

Culturemock, BUSH WAS NOT ELECTED! He was appointed through interference of the US Supreme Court that prevented a complete recount of the vote. A vote that despite massive purging of potential Democratic voters Bush still lost!

If removing brutal dictators is now America's job then you better get prepared for nearly perpetual warfare.

...and right in time for Bush's 2004 State of the Union speech.

Suicide bombers have a critical mass, in that they end up killing other suicide bombers at the end of the curve.

Holy farking shiat Klyde, are you still tore up about that? That four farking years ago. Get over it. There's another one in November. Vote and make your voice heard.

Just to the muddy the waters:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2001-02-25-recount.htm

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/florida.ballots/stories/main.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1190222.stm

http://www.commondreams.org/views01/1115-01.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/elections2000/recount/front.ht m


There's about five hundred more links like these out there. Whether you like it or not George W Bush is currently sitting in the oval office as the elected President. He took the Oath of Office. All the biatching, griping, complaining, and crying is not going to change it now. Vote in November and shut the fark up.

Holy Family of Terror

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

The administration of George W Bush is the worst in American history. What an asshat.

nhcfark, I thought Bush was Hitler. Are you claiming that all those pictures were faked?

/Can't trust anyone anymore.

Yeah. Big farking surprise. They just love us for bringing freedom and all that shiat.

Bravo Chuckman. I agree.

Stupid farking war, anyways.

/off to bed.

RockIsDead

man are you confuzed, here is the hitler

Ok, that previous post of mine looks kind of dumb now upon review. I meant to say "Summary of some of the deadliest attacks in Iraq since March."

/beer

We now return to our regularly scheduled flamewar.

edverb -- State of the Union speech. Obvious, this one's gonna be entirely recycled with one big election-year surprise. Anyhow, here's the address:

Ladies and gentlemen, ____________________ "Honor the sacrifices made by our men and women in uniform" ____________ "to bring freedom and democracy to the Iraqi people" __________________ "Saddam's capture sends a message to evildoers everywhere" _______________________ "We know that the world is a safer place" __________________________ "Iraqis are working together with the coalition to quickly bring about fair elections" ____________________ the United Nations must fulfill its obligations in Iraq." __________ yadda yadda...

Then something about economic growth, no mention of jobs. Finally, something I am unable to predict, something new to kick off Bush-Cheney 2004. It will have a tricky name, maybe, and if you're against it, you'll look anti-American on the face of things. It will take alot of words to explain how horrible it is, and very few words to make it sound good.

Klyde
Culturemock, BUSH WAS NOT ELECTED! He was appointed through interference of the US Supreme Court that prevented a complete recount of the vote. A vote that despite massive purging of potential Democratic voters Bush still lost!

If removing brutal dictators is now America's job then you better get prepared for nearly perpetual warfare.


Since I'm almost positive that you haven't actually read anything about the case, let me explain the court's rationale. The Democrats were biatching and whining about a recount just in Florida, and the court thought that was absurd. Why should Florida get special treatment? The court basically said that it would have been more logical for the Democrats to ask for a nationwide recount, because the same mistakes that had happened in Florida could have happened elsewhere. Therefore, the Supreme Court did not do anything out of the ordinary; it simply chose to follow the Constitution along with a little bit of logic (which appeared to be lacking on the Democratic side of the fence).

Please don't make BS blanket statements about topics you know absolutely nothing about.

/sorry for threadjack

for those of you that actually care about the american troops and not getting caught up in the drama of the media and the exploitation of this whole thing... i, today, found out a childhood friend died today in Iraq... he was one of the 3 that died today (jan 17, 2004) in the remote bomb attack in Iraq that was so powerful it turned over a 30 ton Bradford.. or at least that's what i think it was... His name is Cody Orr... what bothers me was that he was just starting to get his life together... he got married and found the direction he wanted his life to take him... and what makes it even harder is that his unit was scheduled to start coming back to the states on January 20th.. in just 3 more days. He will be missed by many.. and loved by all... Thank you Cody for paying the ultimate price for our country (USA) and for a country that I personally do not feel is grateful and obviously does not want us to be there to help them (Iraq). God Bless you my friend... you will always be loved and missed!!!

for those looking for source of pics I posted:

http://www.triton.nu/gallery/

On behalf of any decent Human being that ever died for what they believed in, I offer condolances to the families of those that may have perished. I know it isn't much on a site like this, but it's the least I can do.

My father was in Vietnam, and even if he was just a truck driver (although I have doubts about that being all he did) he saw how stupid and needless that war was. One of his friend's from our hometown stepped on a landmine stepped on a landmine there and died.

This war is stupid. We're fighting caveman mentality with farking cavemen mentality. Throwing fuel on the fire ISN'T gonna put out the farking fire. That is, until it consumes everything around it until there is nothing left.

All said, I can't know what it's like for what those families are going through. I can only imagine, and I doubt that it is anything akin to happiness.

We're living in the American nightmare...not the reality...Wake the fark up everybody...

Is the US still at war in Iraq? I thought it was just low-intensive combat?

It's more of a "hey, you wanna go out and have a drink?" sort of thing now.

It seems like every single time the pundits start saying that we are winning in Iraq somebody goes and blows up a few dozen people over there. The fact is we are not winning in Iraq, we are best at a stalemate trying to quickly throw together a police/defense force then get the hell out of there. But that solution is not going to work out in the long run. Our forces will leave with a US-friendly government in place that will not last more than 18 months because it will be torn apart by conflict between the Kurds, Shiites, and Sunnis. The place will devolve into a civil war further destablising the region... and we will have to go back in there to put things back together again... pouring more money into the pit.

Before Bush decided on a plan to invade Iraq he should have had a farking plan to ensure that we would be able to establish a stable government there first.

My condolences, Bobby.

I think we make the world meaningful, right? People like Cody do it. Now, you and his people will say what it means to you. That's the next circle. And that will become part of history. It isn't made by people who wait for the right answers, or for the right odds. So here's to Cody. If he had moral courage, he had meaning to me.

I mean, people decide what the story is. So truth and justice have a chance. Iraqis will tell it a different way, maybe they'll justify these bombings in history books. But I guarantee, if they do that, there will be a smartass Iraqi kid who will say or think, "what if really?..."

And then it's on. Another young guy with moral courage, he could be wrong, maybe he says "the Americans were right" or something. And so truth and justice have a chance to spread. It's subtle, war is a bad analogy.

I guess I am saying it doesn't matter if we agree. It matters whether we close our eyes and minds, and live as moral cowards on one side or another. Because those are the people who can't, wouldn't know how, to fix things.

Because they'd be too busy figuring out how to feel better about themselves, whose ass would be better to kiss, you name it. What should I learn and say? That sort of crap, it takes a lifetime. But I bet Cody Orr wasn't like that.

The regime's been toppled, Saddam's been caught, there are clearly no WMDs to be found. Why are there still coalition troops in Iraq? All they seem to be doing is saving any psycho, Islamic fundie who fancies a crack at the evil infidel a bit of a journey.

Well, this is great. I have a Jordanian contractor going into that same exact compound today. I don't know how this will affect his plans. Hopefully he gets out today, not for his own sake, but for mine too. I have so much crap to do with these TV stations to get up and running. Bleh...

Just obeying orders..."bring it on".

So the more death and destruction that happens in Iraq, the more we win the war on terrorism, right?

All the biatching, griping, complaining, and crying is not going to change it now. Vote in November and shut the fark up.

Exactly. We wouldn't have been in this mess if more people bothered to get registered and then bothered to vote. OK, maybe we still would, but if we had more people voting, we wouldn't be whining about a stoln election.

People still angry about the election should make sure that everyone who is unhappy with this is registered and then vote against Bush in November. If you are angry about 2000 and don't vote in November, I personally blame you.

Now give me my two dollars

TheFooz:

You had the idea right, but the specifics wrong.

The democrats only wanted specific counties in Florida recounted. That would have been a violation of the equal protection clause (that recovering lost votes in democratic strong holds would be more important than lost votes in other counties)

I haven't had enough death. We need more, now.

/Cheney

Robarahz

"Seriously, why didn't we get other countries involved from the get go, like the first Iraq war? Were they not willing and if not, then why? Was it because we wouldn't give up control of certain things, like oil? Seriously want to know. Too much noise from both sides to discern.
"

One of the reasons other countries were not willing to help is because of the vauge reasoning on the part of George Bush and company. Now, the other countries suspicions are turning out to be true. Smart move on their part. George W Bush is not a good foreign policy maker. He has pissed off our most important allies. Does that answer your question? Maybe I should explain Georgies religious beliefs, and how he has used his "faith' to start this war. It's the Christians vs the Muslims. It's like an NFL game. We get to sit back, drink some brews, screw some hos, and watch the carnage on CNN. I love America.