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(NBC Bay Area)   California governor Jerry Brown vetos bill banning sales of certain semi-automatic rifles. No, you're not living in the Twilight Zone: A liberal vetoed a gun ban   (nbcbayarea.com) divider line 225
    More: Interesting, semi-automatic rifle, California, Governor of California, vetoes, President Pro Tem, gun ownership, gun controls, Twilight Zone  
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1208 clicks; posted to Politics » on 11 Oct 2013 at 6:03 PM (27 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-11 05:08:42 PM
That won't stop those unwilling to even discuss gun control measures from claiming all liberals want to ban all guns.
 
2013-10-11 05:14:54 PM

mediablitz: That won't stop those unwilling to even discuss gun control measures from claiming all liberals want to ban all guns.


Not all liberals want to ban all guns, but some do.

And some liberals want to ban some guns.

But gun control is a loser issue for them.  They would do well to drop it and get religion on the Second Amendment.  If the Democrats ran to the right of the Republicans on the issue, they'd probably lose zero votes in urban areas and gain lots in suburban and rural areas.
 
2013-10-11 05:20:04 PM

dittybopper: If the Democrats ran to the right of the Republicans on the issue


"Free tanks for everyone"?
 
2013-10-11 05:22:21 PM
And Obama hasn't moved to ban a single round despite what you've heard for six years now.
 
2013-10-11 05:27:12 PM

dittybopper: mediablitz: That won't stop those unwilling to even discuss gun control measures from claiming all liberals want to ban all guns.

Not all liberals want to ban all guns, but some do.

And some liberals want to ban some guns.

But gun control is a loser issue for them.  They would do well to drop it and get religion on the Second Amendment.  If the Democrats ran to the right of the Republicans on the issue, they'd probably lose zero votes in urban areas and gain lots in suburban and rural areas.


Yeah, it was stupid of the Democrats to even bring it up. Even though it makes sense to implement some measures to keep felons and mental patients from buying guns, it's such a political hot potato that Obama should have known better. His political instincts are usually better than that.

I'm a liberal gun owner, and most liberals I know aren't afraid of guns. I gave my son an AK-47 for his high school graduation present. Of course I live in Idaho. It might be different in a big city back east.
 
2013-10-11 05:28:22 PM

Blues_X: dittybopper: If the Democrats ran to the right of the Republicans on the issue

"Free tanks for everyone"?


I can't even figure out what "too the right" would be. 90% of Americans wanted stronger background check laws and Republicans blocked it. How do you run to the right of that?
 
2013-10-11 05:30:16 PM

revrendjim: I'm a liberal gun owner, and most liberals I know aren't afraid of guns. I gave my son an AK-47 for his high school graduation present. Of course I live in Idaho. It might be different in a big city back east.


I'm a liberal living in Montana. Own guns. Have a CCW.

According to many of the "gun supporters" here on Fark, I want to take everyones guns. You can't have a conversation about gun control on this site. There are maybe 2 people that don't foam at the mouth over the subject.
 
2013-10-11 05:42:50 PM
And, in other news, Jerry Brown is a competent governor that's been doing a pretty darned good job, contrary to everyone claiming that "Moonbeam" was going to be the 2nd coming of the age of out of control liberalism.
 
2013-10-11 05:46:44 PM

mediablitz: revrendjim: I'm a liberal gun owner, and most liberals I know aren't afraid of guns. I gave my son an AK-47 for his high school graduation present. Of course I live in Idaho. It might be different in a big city back east.

I'm a liberal living in Montana. Own guns. Have a CCW.

According to many of the "gun supporters" here on Fark, I want to take everyones guns. You can't have a conversation about gun control on this site. There are maybe 2 people that don't foam at the mouth over the subject.


Probably more accurate that the people who aren't foaming at the mouth don't post. I'm very liberal, but immigration and gun control are the two topics I swing rather conservative on. But since it's not a topic that inspires an irresistible urge to beat my keyboard to death, I just save it the trouble.
 
2013-10-11 05:59:30 PM

dittybopper: mediablitz: That won't stop those unwilling to even discuss gun control measures from claiming all liberals want to ban all guns.

Not all liberals want to ban all guns, but some do.

And some liberals want to ban some guns.

But gun control is a loser issue for them.  They would do well to drop it and get religion on the Second Amendment.  If the Democrats ran to the right of the Republicans on the issue, they'd probably lose zero votes in urban areas and gain lots in suburban and rural areas.




The Democratic Party has for the most part, abandoned the gun control issue. The problem is that there is a gun issue that needs to be resolved.

However the solution isn't removing guns, there is a serious consideration to mental health that we have ignored in this country since the days of Reagan.
 
2013-10-11 06:01:43 PM
Brown's veto statement:

I am returning Senate Bill 374 without my signature.

The State of California already has some of the strictest gun laws in the country, including bans on military-style assault rifles and high-capacity ammunition magazines.

While the author's intent is to strengthen these restrictions, this bill goes much farther by banning any semi-automatic rifle with a detachable magazine. This ban covers low-capacity rifles that are commonly used for hunting, firearms training, and marksmanship practice, as well as some historical and collectible firearms. Moreover, hundreds of thousands of current gun owners would have to register their rifles as assault weapons and would be banned from selling or transferring them in the future.

Today I signed a number of bills that strengthen California's gun Jaws, including AB 48, which closes a loophole in the existing ban on dangerous high-capacity magazines. I also signed AB 1131 and SB 127, which restrict the ability of mentally unstable people to purchase or possess guns.

I don't believe that this bill's blanket ban on semi-automatic rifles would reduce criminal activity or enhance public safety enough to warrant this infringement on gun owners' rights.
 
2013-10-11 06:03:48 PM
Probably a smart move by Brown.  While CA has the reputation of being super-liberal, there were enough conservatives around to get Prop 8 passed and to defeat the recreational marijuana bill, so they can apparently still bring some force.

CA already has fairly strong firearm safety regulation, and he signed the bills that shore up firearm bans for the mentally ill and closing loopholes allowing high capacity magazines.  He also said part of his reasoning behind vetoing the assault rifle ban was that it was too broad and would end up applying to common hunting rifles, so that makes sense.

Right now gun control is such a volatile issue that it makes sense to focus on the areas that the majority of the country agrees on like universal background checks and limiting the access of the mentally ill to firearms.  The majority of the public also supports a central firearm registration, which could certainly make it easier to track where the guns used in crimes are coming from.  Of course, the NRA has been spreading so much FUD that a registry is just a way to find out where your guns are so that the government can take them that even though the majority of people support it, it's a politically tricky issue.
 
2013-10-11 06:06:46 PM

edmo: And Obama hasn't moved to ban a single round despite what you've heard for six years now.


It's a trick.  He's waiting to ban everything in his third term.
 
2013-10-11 06:07:31 PM
He also just vetoed a bill that would have allowed illegal immigrants the ability to serve on juries... The real question is what the f*ck are those assholes in the state congress thinking?
 
2013-10-11 06:07:45 PM

obenchainr: California's gun Jaws


i798.photobucket.com
 
2013-10-11 06:08:49 PM
Your uncool niece is still in danger from his suede-denim secret police, however.
 
2013-10-11 06:10:32 PM
As perhaps the most liberal assault rifle owner working in the oilfield, I am not surprised. I am pleased. This is good governance.
 
2013-10-11 06:12:32 PM

violentsalvation: obenchainr: California's gun Jaws

[i798.photobucket.com image 780x523]


Holy shiat.  Gun Jaws.

+1
 
2013-10-11 06:13:45 PM
Better he veto a bill than have the USSC toss it because it bans guns popular for self-defense.

I wonder how it feels to be a gun owner and vote alDemocrat. Is it like being a log cabin Republican? At what point will the urge to vote against their own interest give way?
 
2013-10-11 06:14:53 PM

violentsalvation: obenchainr: California's gun Jaws

[i798.photobucket.com image 780x523]


Ha :)

Didn't proof-read, Adobe did that (the veto statement's a PDF, so had to OCR it).
 
2013-10-11 06:15:09 PM
Smart move, that broad of a ban on rifles would be a golden ticket for a SCOTUS review. It would have potentially given the current court the chance to vote on whether such broad restrictions violate Heller, which would have the potential to invalidate all 'assault weapon' bans.
 
2013-10-11 06:15:24 PM

mediablitz: revrendjim: I'm a liberal gun owner, and most liberals I know aren't afraid of guns. I gave my son an AK-47 for his high school graduation present. Of course I live in Idaho. It might be different in a big city back east.

I'm a liberal living in Montana. Own guns. Have a CCW.

According to many of the "gun supporters" here on Fark, I want to take everyones guns. You can't have a conversation about gun control on this site. There are maybe 2 people that don't foam at the mouth over the subject.


Gun nuts are paranoid and usually cowards.  There are a lot of them on Fark.
 
2013-10-11 06:15:37 PM

Darth_Lukecash: dittybopper: mediablitz: That won't stop those unwilling to even discuss gun control measures from claiming all liberals want to ban all guns.

Not all liberals want to ban all guns, but some do.

And some liberals want to ban some guns.

But gun control is a loser issue for them.  They would do well to drop it and get religion on the Second Amendment.  If the Democrats ran to the right of the Republicans on the issue, they'd probably lose zero votes in urban areas and gain lots in suburban and rural areas.

The Democratic Party has for the most part, abandoned the gun control issue. The problem is that there is a gun issue that needs to be resolved.

However the solution isn't removing guns, there is a serious consideration to mental health that we have ignored in this country since the days of Reagan.


And "removing guns" is an impractical solution. We have so many in this country there's no way to shove that particular genie back in the bottle.
 
2013-10-11 06:16:02 PM
Intelligent people must know that gun controls should be identical to drugs policy. Make no assumption that responsible legal owners will injure themselves or others based simply on ownership and use. License and regulate dealers and producers for public safety reasons.
 
2013-10-11 06:16:42 PM

Blues_X: dittybopper: If the Democrats ran to the right of the Republicans on the issue

"Free tanks for everyone"?


Screw that, I want a nuke.  Hey Mister Burglar guy, does the phrase "Mutually Assured Destruction" mean anything to you?
 
2013-10-11 06:16:47 PM

Mrbogey: Better he veto a bill than have the USSC toss it because it bans guns popular for self-defense.

I wonder how it feels to be a gun owner and vote alDemocrat. Is it like being a log cabin Republican? At what point will the urge to vote against their own interest give way?


No, it's called not being a paranoid moran.
 
2013-10-11 06:16:51 PM

mediablitz: Blues_X: dittybopper: If the Democrats ran to the right of the Republicans on the issue

"Free tanks for everyone"?

I can't even figure out what "too the right" would be. 90% of Americans wanted stronger background check laws and Republicans blocked it. How do you run to the right of that?


People weren't against the background checks.  They were against how it would have been implemented under that proposed law. A background check should ask a couple of questions only.  Basically, name and driver license number or social security number.  It should return a yes or a no.  That's it.  They attempted to implement a system that asked far too many unrelated or unnecessary questions and it didn't guarantee this information was destroyed in a timely manner.
 
2013-10-11 06:16:52 PM
I don't for a second really support any lax gun laws--but this type of law is truly built to fail. I'm a huge dirty libby lib--but one point gun advocates make I tend to agree with is that these bans create more criminals instead of properly addressing those who illegally own them. It also leads me to fearfully believe laws changing or banning gun ownership now are like trying to take a drop of blood out of the ocean.

/ducks
 
2013-10-11 06:17:59 PM

Mrbogey: Is it like being a log cabin Republican?


No, the party doesn't refer to them as evil pedophiles.
 
2013-10-11 06:18:03 PM

Mrbogey: Better he veto a bill than have the USSC toss it because it bans guns popular for self-defense.

I wonder how it feels to be a gun owner and vote alDemocrat. Is it like being a log cabin Republican? At what point will the urge to vote against their own interest give way?


Are Democrats known for being single issue voters? I know a lot of gun owning Democrats and none of them seem overly concerned with gun issues. There's way more important things going on right now.
 
2013-10-11 06:22:26 PM
Don't the dems in California have a supermajority in both houses of the state legislature?  So they can override this unfortunately.
 
2013-10-11 06:22:35 PM

grumpyguru: He also just vetoed a bill that would have allowed illegal immigrants the ability to serve on juries... The real question is what the f*ck are those assholes in the state congress thinking?


You are permitted a jury of your peers?
 
2013-10-11 06:22:57 PM

violentsalvation: obenchainr: California's gun Jaws

[i798.photobucket.com image 780x523]


Thank you.  You read my mind.
 
2013-10-11 06:22:58 PM

geek_mars: Mrbogey: Better he veto a bill than have the USSC toss it because it bans guns popular for self-defense.

I wonder how it feels to be a gun owner and vote alDemocrat. Is it like being a log cabin Republican? At what point will the urge to vote against their own interest give way?

Are Democrats known for being single issue voters? I know a lot of gun owning Democrats and none of them seem overly concerned with gun issues. There's way more important things going on right now.


Its one thing that keeps me from voting democrat more frequently.
 
2013-10-11 06:23:11 PM
Or, rather, you have a right to a jury of your peers. Poor word choice.
 
2013-10-11 06:24:42 PM

geek_mars: Mrbogey: Better he veto a bill than have the USSC toss it because it bans guns popular for self-defense.

I wonder how it feels to be a gun owner and vote alDemocrat. Is it like being a log cabin Republican? At what point will the urge to vote against their own interest give way?

Are Democrats known for being single issue voters? I know a lot of gun owning Democrats and none of them seem overly concerned with gun issues. There's way more important things going on right now.


If he had passed it, that would have possibly been the tipping point for me.  I'll already be voting against the Democrats for the state senate and assembly next time because of how they've been acting since they got a super majority.  I'll never for Republican for a federal office still.  I don't care if Barbara Boxer becomes addicted to crack cocaine ... the GOP is evil.  But the Democrats in California are not catering enough to moderates.  It's not just because of this one issue, but they have gone too far on some of these gun/hunting bills, and it's a big factor.
 
2013-10-11 06:25:07 PM

Mrbogey: Better he veto a bill than have the USSC toss it because it bans guns popular for self-defense.

I wonder how it feels to be a gun owner and vote alDemocrat. Is it like being a log cabin Republican? At what point will the urge to vote against their own interest give way?


Don't you prefer to rely on your fists, Booger?
 
2013-10-11 06:25:13 PM
There are good liberals and good conservatives.  Then there are Statists.  They dont realize that they are Totalitarians who demand the government force their will on everyone.
 
2013-10-11 06:26:14 PM

Herman Borrach: grumpyguru: He also just vetoed a bill that would have allowed illegal immigrants the ability to serve on juries... The real question is what the f*ck are those assholes in the state congress thinking?

You are permitted a jury of your peers?


Yeah, I don't personally have a problem with illegal immigrants serving on juries as long as they were completely fluent in English.  The CA constitution doesn't define citizenship as a requirement to serve on a jury either.
 
2013-10-11 06:26:29 PM

Mrbogey: Better he veto a bill than have the USSC toss it because it bans guns popular for self-defense.

I wonder how it feels to be a gun owner and vote alDemocrat. Is it like being a log cabin Republican?


It's a bit like that, yes.

At what point will the urge to vote against their own interest give way?

The point at which the Republican party changes the majority of its positions on economics, foreign policy, environmental protections and the role of government among other things.  Firearm restrictions are, at most, maybe 15% of the totality of government-related things that I, and most of the gun owners I happen to know (which in my state is pretty much everybody) consider to be "in our own interest".
 
2013-10-11 06:27:00 PM
I'm beginning to suspect this, "liberals want to steal everybody's guns!" claim isn't accurate and made in good faith.
 
2013-10-11 06:27:50 PM

geek_mars: Mrbogey: Better he veto a bill than have the USSC toss it because it bans guns popular for self-defense.

I wonder how it feels to be a gun owner and vote alDemocrat. Is it like being a log cabin Republican? At what point will the urge to vote against their own interest give way?

Are Democrats known for being single issue voters? I know a lot of gun owning Democrats and none of them seem overly concerned with gun issues. There's way more important things going on right now.


All of the lib gun owners I know think crazy people getting guns is a really bad idea and we should try to do something about it. In derp speak that means we are going to take all your guns and make you watch while we cut them up with an angle grinder.
 
2013-10-11 06:28:04 PM

dittybopper: mediablitz: That won't stop those unwilling to even discuss gun control measures from claiming all liberals want to ban all guns.

Not all liberals want to ban all guns, but some do.

And some liberals want to ban some guns.

But gun control is a loser issue for them.  They would do well to drop it and get religion on the Second Amendment.  If the Democrats ran to the right of the Republicans on the issue, they'd probably lose zero votes in urban areas and gain lots in suburban and rural areas.


I hear the gun rights activists throw out this line over and over again and yet every poll that has been done about gun control disproves it as a myth. Even within the NRA, most people polled agree to increases in gun safety legislation to some extent. It's just an extremely vocal minority of single-issue gun voters who seem to believe the opposite and are under the delusion that their ilk makes up the vast majority of the populace. Maybe it's being on the internet or something. FARK is NOT an accurate cross-section of the general public.

/no dog in this fight and I generally try my best to avoid the gun threads but I just felt like getting this off my back
 
2013-10-11 06:29:02 PM

spiderpaz: geek_mars: Mrbogey: Better he veto a bill than have the USSC toss it because it bans guns popular for self-defense.

I wonder how it feels to be a gun owner and vote alDemocrat. Is it like being a log cabin Republican? At what point will the urge to vote against their own interest give way?

Are Democrats known for being single issue voters? I know a lot of gun owning Democrats and none of them seem overly concerned with gun issues. There's way more important things going on right now.

If he had passed it, that would have possibly been the tipping point for me.  I'll already be voting against the Democrats for the state senate and assembly next time because of how they've been acting since they got a super majority.  I'll never for Republican for a federal office still.  I don't care if Barbara Boxer becomes addicted to crack cocaine ... the GOP is evil.  But the Democrats in California are not catering enough to moderates.  It's not just because of this one issue, but they have gone too far on some of these gun/hunting bills, and it's a big factor.


On the flip side California has been doing great since Brown and the Democrats took over.  An opposition party sometimes helps by offering another view on issues, but having one party in control of everything certainly helps get shiat done.   Bill Maher has a good write-up about it.
 
2013-10-11 06:30:00 PM

Urmuf Hamer: Intelligent people must know that gun controls should be identical to drugs policy. Make no assumption that responsible legal owners will injure themselves or others based simply on ownership and use. License and regulate dealers and producers for public safety reasons.


People who don't take drugs on purpose are rarely harmed by drugs. I mean, it's not like you can run into a mall with a bunch of crack and suddenly everyone's high.
 
2013-10-11 06:32:07 PM
Right Jerry Brown is a "liberal" he is the first Governor in California to actually cut spending and put the state's budget back in order. The Republicans who've been in office have all failed.
 
2013-10-11 06:32:08 PM

spiderpaz: geek_mars: Mrbogey: Better he veto a bill than have the USSC toss it because it bans guns popular for self-defense.

I wonder how it feels to be a gun owner and vote alDemocrat. Is it like being a log cabin Republican? At what point will the urge to vote against their own interest give way?

Are Democrats known for being single issue voters? I know a lot of gun owning Democrats and none of them seem overly concerned with gun issues. There's way more important things going on right now.

If he had passed it, that would have possibly been the tipping point for me.  I'll already be voting against the Democrats for the state senate and assembly next time because of how they've been acting since they got a super majority.  I'll never for Republican for a federal office still.  I don't care if Barbara Boxer becomes addicted to crack cocaine ... the GOP is evil.  But the Democrats in California are not catering enough to moderates.  It's not just because of this one issue, but they have gone too far on some of these gun/hunting bills, and it's a big factor.


Sounds like the Democrats here in Colorado. They are getting some serious push back, though. Hopefully in the next legislative session they will listen to Colorado voters more and the DNC/WH less.
 
2013-10-11 06:32:38 PM

TuteTibiImperes: spiderpaz: geek_mars: Mrbogey: Better he veto a bill than have the USSC toss it because it bans guns popular for self-defense.

I wonder how it feels to be a gun owner and vote alDemocrat. Is it like being a log cabin Republican? At what point will the urge to vote against their own interest give way?

Are Democrats known for being single issue voters? I know a lot of gun owning Democrats and none of them seem overly concerned with gun issues. There's way more important things going on right now.

If he had passed it, that would have possibly been the tipping point for me.  I'll already be voting against the Democrats for the state senate and assembly next time because of how they've been acting since they got a super majority.  I'll never for Republican for a federal office still.  I don't care if Barbara Boxer becomes addicted to crack cocaine ... the GOP is evil.  But the Democrats in California are not catering enough to moderates.  It's not just because of this one issue, but they have gone too far on some of these gun/hunting bills, and it's a big factor.

On the flip side California has been doing great since Brown and the Democrats took over.  An opposition party sometimes helps by offering another view on issues, but having one party in control of everything certainly helps get shiat done.   Bill Maher has a good write-up about it.


True.  I wish there was a way to give Democrats enough control that we wouldn't get completely deadlocked without giving them enough power to tempt them into having it completely their own way without any concern for what the minority party wants.  If they could just be a little more moderate, they could have a permanent super majority.  For some reason the temptation is too much for them though.  They've gone so far to the left with things like this, and new spending that Jerry Brown has to be the voice of reason over and over and bring them back.
 
2013-10-11 06:33:12 PM

spiderpaz: geek_mars: Mrbogey: Better he veto a bill than have the USSC toss it because it bans guns popular for self-defense.

I wonder how it feels to be a gun owner and vote alDemocrat. Is it like being a log cabin Republican? At what point will the urge to vote against their own interest give way?

Are Democrats known for being single issue voters? I know a lot of gun owning Democrats and none of them seem overly concerned with gun issues. There's way more important things going on right now.

If he had passed it, that would have possibly been the tipping point for me.  I'll already be voting against the Democrats for the state senate and assembly next time because of how they've been acting since they got a super majority.  I'll never for Republican for a federal office still.  I don't care if Barbara Boxer becomes addicted to crack cocaine ... the GOP is evil.  But the Democrats in California are not catering enough to moderates.  It's not just because of this one issue, but they have gone too far on some of these gun/hunting bills, and it's a big factor.


Most California Republicans aren't considered "real republicans" by the GOP.  A good number of them are very much in the middle moderates.  Not all, of course. There are a few extremist fundies even in this state.
 
2013-10-11 06:33:43 PM

OgreMagi: mediablitz: Blues_X: dittybopper: If the Democrats ran to the right of the Republicans on the issue

"Free tanks for everyone"?

I can't even figure out what "too the right" would be. 90% of Americans wanted stronger background check laws and Republicans blocked it. How do you run to the right of that?

People weren't against the background checks.  They were against how it would have been implemented under that proposed law. A background check should ask a couple of questions only.  Basically, name and driver license number or social security number.  It should return a yes or a no.  That's it.  They attempted to implement a system that asked far too many unrelated or unnecessary questions and it didn't guarantee this information was destroyed in a timely manner.


I missed this when the bill came up in Congress. What sort of questions?
 
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