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(Quartz)   JP Morgan spends more on fines and lawyers than on employee salaries   (qz.com ) divider line
    More: Sad, JPMorgan Chase & Co., net incomes, salary, total revenue  
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1363 clicks; posted to Business » on 11 Oct 2013 at 2:04 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-11 01:05:31 PM  
Given that JP Morgan is just overhead, I don't think there is any real change here. You could just say JP Morgan's cost structure went up, still is justifiable.


These guys are in for a rude awakening when we replace them entirely with software.
 
2013-10-11 01:51:25 PM  

b2theory: These guys are in for a rude awakening when we replace them entirely with software.


soon.
 
2013-10-11 02:13:52 PM  
Thats just the cost of doing business.

Paying employees is a waste of money.
 
2013-10-11 02:19:40 PM  
Do their "donations" to the NYPD count as overhead or employees' salaries?
 
2013-10-11 02:26:02 PM  
What does your largest expense say about your business? Ideally, the biggest cost should get at the heart of what the firm does.

So, it's completely justified in their case.
 
2013-10-11 02:39:50 PM  

King Something: Do their "donations" to the NYPD count as overhead or employees' salaries?


It may be the closest they get to value creation.
 
2013-10-11 02:43:50 PM  
The legal field wouldn't have it any other way.
 
2013-10-11 03:03:21 PM  
Extortion expense can get pretty pricey in corrupt environments.
 
2013-10-11 03:26:53 PM  
that's because they don't value their lowly employees. the value only their Owners (and profits, of course)
 
2013-10-11 03:52:32 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Extortion expense can get pretty pricey in corrupt environments.


If you don't want to get sued, don't break the law.
 
2013-10-11 04:56:58 PM  
Spends means they always do it, not a one off cost.
 
2013-10-11 05:00:41 PM  

llortcM_yllort: Debeo Summa Credo: Extortion expense can get pretty pricey in corrupt environments.

If you don't want to get sued, don't break the law.


Funny how fast your tune would/will change if you got a speeding ticket and the corresponding fine.
 
2013-10-11 05:12:57 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2013-10-11 05:18:14 PM  

Bullseyed: llortcM_yllort: Debeo Summa Credo: Extortion expense can get pretty pricey in corrupt environments.

If you don't want to get sued, don't break the law.

Funny how fast your tune would/will change if you got a speeding ticket and the corresponding fine.


I've been pulled over for speeding twice.  Both times I was breaking the law and paid the fine without contesting it because I know that if you get caught breaking the law you have to pay the fine.
 
2013-10-11 05:22:50 PM  

Bullseyed: Funny how fast your tune would/will change if you got a speeding ticket and the corresponding fine.


How many peoples livelihoods does one rig/rape/ruin when one goes 65 in a 55?
 
2013-10-11 05:24:16 PM  
Look, I hate Chase (and Jamie Dimon) with the burning passion of 10,000 suns. But Chase is very rich and therefore has a huge target on its back. I, personally, have had to make depositions for bullshiat lawsuits against Chase. Hell, Chase was once sued for $18 million back when NY, NJ, and CT passed that law that said the registered owner of a vehicle was responsible for someone else driving drunk in their car. Guess what those states forgot to take into consideration? Leases, where the bank is the registered owner but someone else drives the car. Chase lost that lawsuit, and then quickly dropped I don't know how many millions into lobbying to (successfully) get those laws repealed in those states. We once had a lady sue submit two suits against us in smalls claims court because we lawfully repossessed her car. The judge threw both suits out, but that doesn't mean our legal department didn't spend tens of hours working on the case and my boss didn't take the day off to fly to Phoenix and answer questions under oath.

So no, I don't doubt that their legal bills are greater than their payroll.
 
2013-10-11 05:48:04 PM  
JP Morgan: Hey, forget the rules.  Let's trade inside and turn this $10 into a $20!

<does it>

SEC: You can't do that.  That'll be a $2 fine.

JP Morgan: Fair enough.  Here you go.  How many times am I allowed to do this again?
 
2013-10-11 07:49:52 PM  

UseUrHeadFred: JP Morgan: Hey, forget the rules.  Let's trade inside and turn this $10 into a $20!

<does it>

SEC: You can't do that.  That'll be a $2 fine.

JP Morgan: Fair enough.  Here you go.  How many times am I allowed to do this again?


Government: "hey, we're in kind of a bind here. Some banks are in financial difficulty and we need someone to take them over. How bout a favor buddy?"

Jp Morgan: okay

Government 4 years later: "OMFG!!! Those companies you bought at our request were doing things that we don't like in retrospect! Give us eleventy billion dollars!"

Jp Morgan: d'oh!
 
2013-10-11 08:07:36 PM  

llortcM_yllort: Bullseyed: llortcM_yllort: Debeo Summa Credo: Extortion expense can get pretty pricey in corrupt environments.

If you don't want to get sued, don't break the law.

Funny how fast your tune would/will change if you got a speeding ticket and the corresponding fine.

I've been pulled over for speeding twice.  Both times I was breaking the law and paid the fine without contesting it because I know that if you get caught breaking the law you have to pay the fine.


I know you get to have a trial. Did you look into that? Oh wait...
 
2013-10-11 08:34:08 PM  

King Something: Do their "donations" to the NYPD count as overhead or employees' salaries?


dl.dropboxusercontent.com
 
2013-10-11 08:36:19 PM  
Yet there have still been no criminal prosecutions for the massive endemic fraud that destroyed our economy.
 
2013-10-11 09:01:49 PM  

Linux_Yes: that's because they don't value their lowly employees. the value only their Owners (and profits, of course)


Their largest shareholders are index funds.

See:  http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=JPM+Major+Holders

Vanguard alone owns something like 178 million shares whereas Jamie Dimon (I think he's the largest individual shareholder) only has 1.9 million.
 
2013-10-11 09:18:07 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: Look, I hate Chase (and Jamie Dimon) with the burning passion of 10,000 suns. But Chase is very rich and therefore has a huge target on its back. I, personally, have had to make depositions for bullshiat lawsuits against Chase. Hell, Chase was once sued for $18 million back when NY, NJ, and CT passed that law that said the registered owner of a vehicle was responsible for someone else driving drunk in their car. Guess what those states forgot to take into consideration? Leases, where the bank is the registered owner but someone else drives the car. Chase lost that lawsuit, and then quickly dropped I don't know how many millions into lobbying to (successfully) get those laws repealed in those states. We once had a lady sue submit two suits against us in smalls claims court because we lawfully repossessed her car. The judge threw both suits out, but that doesn't mean our legal department didn't spend tens of hours working on the case and my boss didn't take the day off to fly to Phoenix and answer questions under oath.

So no, I don't doubt that their legal bills are greater than their payroll.


The trend is to outsource litigation support to India to cut costs.
 
2013-10-12 03:19:05 AM  

itcamefromschenectady: Mike Chewbacca: ...details of small claims lawsuit...

So no, I don't doubt that their legal bills are greater than their payroll.

The trend is to outsource litigation support to India to cut costs.


This indeed the trend, with science and engineering as well.  At the moment...

Call from manufacturer:  "Oh, that is your proposal?  Sanjay says he can do it at 1/3 of the cost, with the same number of optimizing tests run."  ...

In five years, a call from same manufacturer:  "Uh, do you have time to perform some experiments that use adequately trained staff, who use up-to-date equipment, and who won't skew results just to keep a client happy?  Sanjay ripped us off"

My response:  "Oh, you mean a good experimentalist?  That is what I am.  Oh, but, of course, due to the extensive outsourcing in recent years, I now work in a brick factory......."
 
2013-10-12 10:46:35 AM  

SirHolo: itcamefromschenectady: Mike Chewbacca: ...details of small claims lawsuit...

So no, I don't doubt that their legal bills are greater than their payroll.

The trend is to outsource litigation support to India to cut costs.

This indeed the trend, with science and engineering as well.  At the moment...

Call from manufacturer:  "Oh, that is your proposal?  Sanjay says he can do it at 1/3 of the cost, with the same number of optimizing tests run."  ...

In five years, a call from same manufacturer:  "Uh, do you have time to perform some experiments that use adequately trained staff, who use up-to-date equipment, and who won't skew results just to keep a client happy?  Sanjay ripped us off"

My response:  "Oh, you mean a good experimentalist?  That is what I am.  Oh, but, of course, due to the extensive outsourcing in recent years, I now work in a brick factory......."


I don't have a problem with outsourcing, but it's definitely picking up in the legal industry, which has lagged behind the trend. I used to work for a vendor that had a certain huge bank as a client, and they were improving their profit margins in the last couple years by building out Indian teams. The cost savings don't trickle up to the client immediately, but eventually they renegotiate their contract.
 
2013-10-12 10:51:33 AM  

vudukungfu: b2theory: These guys are in for a rude awakening when we replace them entirely with software.

soon.


Most businesses are turning into software businesses, not being replaced by software.

Someone has to write the software, maintain it, and support it.
 
2013-10-12 01:40:28 PM  

itcamefromschenectady: vudukungfu: b2theory: These guys are in for a rude awakening when we replace them entirely with software.

soon.

Most businesses are turning into software businesses, not being replaced by software.

Someone has to write the software, maintain it, and support it.


those people don't have to be based in the United States. increasingly, they are not.

and its not just India that is getting the work. software developers in Spain make a 1/3 to 1/2 of what they get in the US makes. in Poland the pay is even lower.
 
2013-10-12 03:13:09 PM  

dumbobruni: itcamefromschenectady: vudukungfu: b2theory: These guys are in for a rude awakening when we replace them entirely with software.

soon.

Most businesses are turning into software businesses, not being replaced by software.

Someone has to write the software, maintain it, and support it.

those people don't have to be based in the United States. increasingly, they are not.

and its not just India that is getting the work. software developers in Spain make a 1/3 to 1/2 of what they get in the US makes. in Poland the pay is even lower.

 Not everything gets offshored at once - any business is going to hire people from the area where they started up initially, and then offshore jobs later on when things become more routine. By that time, the people they hired fresh out of college have five years or so under their belt and can choose whether to go into management or change jobs and keep on doing technical stuff. The cycle seems perfectly sustainable to me.
 
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