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(Ars Technica)   Do you feel superior about your political beliefs? Well, so do those other jackholes   (arstechnica.com) divider line 53
    More: Obvious, Mechanical Turk, U-shaped, beliefs  
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949 clicks; posted to Politics » on 11 Oct 2013 at 2:01 PM (50 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-11 01:18:26 PM
I expect everyone who has an opinion to think that their opinion is the correct one. Otherwise, why would you knowingly espouse an incorrect opinion? Since I believe my opinion is the most correct given the available evidence, I believe that contrary opinions are incorrect. It's also clear that everyone should believe the same of their own opinions, and it's our job to convince people that while they think they are right, actually they are not, or, to alter our opinions in order to hold the right ones when we are shown to be wrong.
 
2013-10-11 01:29:42 PM
Factual inaccuracies and lies are not, in fact, opinions.
 
2013-10-11 01:31:47 PM

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Factual inaccuracies and lies are not, in fact, opinions.


That's just your opinion. I believe that they are, and I'm superior to you for being more open minded about what constitutes "reality" than you. So there.
 
2013-10-11 01:32:11 PM
Except that it's pretty proveable that Conservatism has actively denied education as an important thing except as some sort of ill-defined abstract concept.
 
2013-10-11 01:38:20 PM
Of course I'm superior.

29.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-10-11 01:43:42 PM
I don't feel superior because of my political beliefs. I feel superior because I'm smarter and funnier than everyone else.
 
2013-10-11 01:49:26 PM
I'm pretty, why do I need too have politically beliefs?
 
2013-10-11 02:00:47 PM
When I was young, I thought I had all the answers.
Now I'm old, and I'm pretty sure I can find the bathroom.
 
2013-10-11 02:03:08 PM

nmrsnr: I expect everyone who has an opinion to think that their opinion is the correct one. Otherwise, why would you knowingly espouse an incorrect opinion? Since I believe my opinion is the most correct given the available evidence, I believe that contrary opinions are incorrect. It's also clear that everyone should believe the same of their own opinions, and it's our job to convince people that while they think they are right, actually they are not, or, to alter our opinions in order to hold the right ones when we are shown to be wrong.


I came in to say something along these lines, but I doubt I would have worded it as well, so I'm just going to do one of these: ^^^^^this^^^^^
 
2013-10-11 02:03:14 PM
We feel superior because we ARE superior, you stupid Libs.
 
2013-10-11 02:06:32 PM
No i don't think my opinion is superior , but i do know that my opinion is raw and based on how i actually feel. meaning if i say i don't like X for X reason, it is because i don't like x for x reason. Most of opinions ,  especially political ones are based on other fears, that are not directly related to the issue at hand.
 
2013-10-11 02:06:40 PM
"Superior"? no

"Content my opinions are based on factual evidence"? yes

"Aware it is okay to change opinion as facts or circumstance change"? yup
 
2013-10-11 02:07:33 PM
Kind of burying the lead there on that headline: "But only conservatives are dogmatic about it."

In other news, conservatives are unwilling to let new information influence their beliefs, lack critical thinking skills.
 
2013-10-11 02:07:56 PM
the only thing I feel "superior" about is my ability to recognize and acknowledge objective, observable reality
 
2013-10-11 02:08:40 PM

miss diminutive: I'm pretty, why do I need too have politically beliefs?


wait I retract my previous post and am going with "samesies"
 
2013-10-11 02:13:07 PM
Holding onto beliefs without the possibility of change is bad and can even make you a bad person.
Conservatism is the idea that you hold onto your beliefs without change.

Got it, thanks.
 
2013-10-11 02:13:29 PM
Smugly superior.

Sneeringly superior.
 
2013-10-11 02:14:57 PM

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Factual inaccuracies and lies are not, in fact, opinions.


Agreed.  If you repeat factual inaccuracies and lies enough they become facts and a basis for a well-informed opinion.
 
2013-10-11 02:15:31 PM
I don't feel superior in my beliefs, but it seems that most of my beliefs are at least demonstrably accurate, and sometimes I also find out that they aren't and then I modify them accordingly.
 
2013-10-11 02:16:56 PM

nmrsnr: I expect everyone who has an opinion to think that their opinion is the correct one. Otherwise, why would you knowingly espouse an incorrect opinion? Since I believe my opinion is the most correct given the available evidence, I believe that contrary opinions are incorrect. It's also clear that everyone should believe the same of their own opinions, and it's our job to convince people that while they think they are right, actually they are not, or, to alter our opinions in order to hold the right ones when we are shown to be wrong.


Ron Paul supporters are a bit different.  They assume that everyone secretly likes Ron Paul, but is being paid off to say otherwise.
 
2013-10-11 02:20:55 PM

nmrsnr: I expect everyone who has an opinion to think that their opinion is the correct one. Otherwise, why would you knowingly espouse an incorrect opinion? Since I believe my opinion is the most correct given the available evidence, I believe that contrary opinions are incorrect. It's also clear that everyone should believe the same of their own opinions, and it's our job to convince people that while they think they are right, actually they are not, or, to alter our opinions in order to hold the right ones when we are shown to be wrong.


A lot of people hold opinions not because they are correct, but because it is most advantageous for them to do so. They seek to profit and so lying about the rationale behind their opinions is the most prudent action toward fulfilling them. Some of these people are gaming the national dialogue with these opinions. For instance, rich people want tax cuts. They don't ever say that they want them so they can get richer. They say tax cuts on the wealthy will help everybody despite the fact that 30 years of evidence shows that they don't.

So their opinion is not wrong but they're lying about the reasons for having it.
 
2013-10-11 02:22:24 PM

nmrsnr: I expect everyone who has an opinion to think that their opinion is the correct one. Otherwise, why would you knowingly espouse an incorrect opinion? Since I believe my opinion is the most correct given the available evidence, I believe that contrary opinions are incorrect. It's also clear that everyone should believe the same of their own opinions, and it's our job to convince people that while they think they are right, actually they are not, or, to alter our opinions in order to hold the right ones when we are shown to be wrong.


Which is why those results are not surprising, or interesting for that matter.

The results that are interesting however, are that "those who tended toward conservative political views tended toward dogmatism as well." Which, also isn't surprising.

Someone that's dogmatic, will not change their mind based on evidence. If someone does not change and form opinions based on evidence, how can they ever be right?
 
2013-10-11 02:22:57 PM
Black man on CNN just said Obamacare is as bad as slavery.

/Whew. These people are farking off their medications.

"WAAAAAH. We don't want people to be able to buy health insurance! WAAAAAAH!"

farking idiots.
 
2013-10-11 02:23:53 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: Black man on CNN just said Obamacare is as bad as slavery.

/Whew. These people are farking off their medications.

"WAAAAAH. We don't want people to be able to buy health insurance! WAAAAAAH!"

farking idiots.


art.penny-arcade.com
 
2013-10-11 02:24:31 PM
I know they do... someone on my Fbook was arguing that Obamacare needs to be stopped because it will account for 53% of the whole federal budget... there was no way to argue with him... he was so clearly convinced of the evil of Obamacare that he didn't even bother to read the numbers he posted as "proof."
 
2013-10-11 02:29:00 PM

nmrsnr: I expect everyone who has an opinion to think that their opinion is the correct one. Otherwise...


They are probably just trollin
 
2013-10-11 02:29:55 PM

nmrsnr: I expect everyone who has an opinion to think that their opinion is the correct one. Otherwise, why would you knowingly espouse an incorrect opinion? Since I believe my opinion is the most correct given the available evidence, I believe that contrary opinions are incorrect. It's also clear that everyone should believe the same of their own opinions, and it's our job to convince people that while they think they are right, actually they are not, or, to alter our opinions in order to hold the right ones when we are shown to be wrong.


That's an interesting opinion.

I believe my opinion to be the most reasonable, based on my life experiences and what I believe to be true.  I also know that my perspective is limited to my experiences, and that there are most likely many circumstances which I am not aware of, and therefore, cannot take into account.  So, while I do hold my opinion is high regard (since, otherwise, why would I bother having it?), I also know, though experience, that I do change my opinion from time to time, as I learn things that I previously had not considered.

This experience has caused me to realize that other people's opinions have merit, and as long as people are respectful when presenting facts and information which has lead them to their contradictory opinion, I am happy to discuss those differences, and sometimes it has caused me to change my point of view.  This is not the same as having the belief that I should try to convince others of my opinion.  I do this, for certain, especially if I know that I have information to present that the other person has not considered.  But, my quest is for trying to refine my opinion to better meet reality, and whenever possible, help others do the same.

Moral of the story?  Its not a good idea to hold your own opinion in such high regard that you consider it to be objectively correct.  Because, its just like, your opinion, man.
 
2013-10-11 02:31:20 PM
Am I morally superior to people who don't mind having people starve in the streets and go without health care?  Yes, yes I am.
 
2013-10-11 02:32:37 PM
If you don't think your political beliefs are superior, why do you believe them?
 
2013-10-11 02:34:41 PM
I don't feel superior about my beliefs. I feel superior about my intellect. My intellect leads to my beliefs.
 
2013-10-11 02:34:42 PM

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Factual inaccuracies and lies are not, in fact, opinions.


This.

For one example, we have the fossils.
 
2013-10-11 02:34:52 PM

catusr: When I was young, I thought I had all the answers.
Now I'm old, and I'm pretty sure I can find the bathroom.


You know? The more you know, the more you know you don't know.

Those of lesser intelligence will be more confident and insistent on their correctness because they simply cannot even imagine being incorrect, even in the presence of evidence. These people operate on beliefs.

While those more intelligent will be more willing to concede nearly any previously held "truth", provided sufficient evidence to refute it. These people operate on logic.

If there were an easy way to convince stupid people them and their beliefs were stupid and they should shut up?

The common cold would be cured and we'd all be living in Jetson houses with robot sex slaves and zero-emission flying cars.

/everyone feels superior about their political beliefs
//some of them, rightly so
 
2013-10-11 02:39:56 PM

Ned Stark: If you don't think your political beliefs are superior, why do you believe them?


The beliefs aren't superior.
The facts are superior to unfounded opinion and misinformation.
The beliefs are just subsequent to the facts.
Give me new (or more accurate) facts, and I'll probably have new beliefs.
 
2013-10-11 02:40:34 PM
If we were sitting in a bar, and I posited "The Seattle Seahawks are the best goddamn football team in American history", you would likely be incredulous, at best.  You would probably start pointing out how other teams, such as the Steelers and 49ers, have significantly more Super Bowl rings (compared to none).  You might point out season winning percentages, or number of players in the Hall of Fame, or even the number of Pro Bowlers within a given period of time.

If these failed to convince me that I had no rational standing in declaring the Seahawks the best team ever, you'd probably write me off.  Hell, if I kept on about it, you would probably end up mocking it for me endlessly, or at least, not take my opinions on football seriously.

Why we have higher standards as a culture for debating sports than we do politics is something that bothers me greatly.  In part, it is because many people don't have similar parameters memorized to debate politics.  More importantly, it's because many people with strong opinions about politics are just like the Seahawks fanboy, to whom facts and statistics mean nothing compared to "rooting for the team" at all costs.  (And in the case of politics, especially when confronted with contrary information).
 
2013-10-11 02:44:27 PM
Well to a certain extent everyone is right about feeling smug and superior, I mean I doubt there is anyone that is 100% against doing anything that could be viewed as restricting someones rights, which basically means to somebody YOU are a jack booted Nazi fascist thug that is trying to oppress them.
 
2013-10-11 02:50:32 PM
Do you feel superior about your political beliefs? Well, so do those other jackholes

So vote Republican.
 
2013-10-11 02:55:18 PM

born_yesterday: Why we have higher standards as a culture for debating sports than we do politics is something that bothers me greatly


Yes and no. First off, sports are slightly more objective. There is no argument over who won the Superbowl or who had the most passing yards or rushing carries. Those are objective stats that can be used to bolster an argument. However, arguing WHY the Superbowl Champions won may produce a greater spectrum of responses. The losers have their excuses ("our key players were hurt", "if it wasn't for that turnover", "our coach mismanaged the clock", "the refs totally screwed us", etc.) that basically amounts to we-are-the-real-champions-but-this-one-unlucky-thing-happened.

And that's where politics, religion, philosophy, and a whole host of other fields basically argue all the time. Take the raw stats and then extrapolate "hows" and "whys" from them, which are harder to come to any agreeable consensus.

Everyone knows who won the 2012 election. But HOW and WHY Obama won will never be accepted by the Republicans -- I've heard everything from "ACORN stole the election" to "Democrat voter fraud". Whatever it was, it wasn't an honest contest.

It was never an honest contest according to the losers.
 
2013-10-11 02:56:19 PM

The Science Daily piece submitted three days back got a redlight, but I figured it was just a matter of time.

My first reaction was to wonder if they checked against the SDO measure that Sidanius developed. Answer: apparently no, because DUKE SUCKS! On the other hand, they did reference the association of dogmatism to social dominance, and were using Altemeyer's DOG scale as part of their metrics.

Also worth noting, the SCIENCE!!! in the technical paper indicates there are differences between left and right:

To begin, we tested the rigidity-of-the-right and ideological-extremism hypotheses by examining whether a linear or a quadratic relationship (or both) existed between participants' dogmatism scores and their overall political attitudes (the mean attitude rating across the nine issues). The results of this analysis supported the rigidity-of-the-right hypothesis. Specifically, respondents who endorsed more conservative attitudes overall scored significantly higher on the dogmatism scale, β = 0.30, t(524) = 7.23, R2 = .09, p < .001. The quadratic effect of conservatism on dogmatism was not significant, and thus the ideological-extremism hypothesis was not supported, β = 0.02, t(524) = 0.41, n.s.
However...
For each issue, we compared people who selected the option indicating the greatest belief superiority (mine is the only correct view) with those who selected the other four options. As Table 2 shows, for three topics -- voter identification, taxes, and affirmative action -- participants who felt the most superior in their beliefs scored significantly higher in the conservative direction than those with lower superiority. For three issues -- government aid for the needy, use of torture on terrorists, and basing laws on religion -- respondents who endorsed the highest belief superiority leaned in a liberal direction. No significant differences were obtained for the remaining three issues.
(The other three are abortion, illegal immigration, and health care.) The "government aid for the needy" surprises me a bit, but not so much the others.

Anyway: liberals tend smug on some topics, but conservatives tend both smug and rigid in their smugness. So, you can still tell a conservative, and still can't tell him much.
 
2013-10-11 02:57:25 PM
Superior, not so much.  Rational?  Yes.
 
2013-10-11 03:02:02 PM

Nightjars: Its not a good idea to hold your own opinion in such high regard that you consider it to be objectively correct.


So which belief do you hold that you believe to be incorrect? And why do you continue to hold it?

I'm not suggesting arrogance; that I'm incapable of error, only that at any given moment in time, I am unaware of error in my opinions. When that perception changes, so do my opinions.
 
2013-10-11 03:15:43 PM
The study concludes that conservatives are dogmatic, but there's another explanation.

Conservatives have to practically burn out their brain circuits doing mental gyrations to prevent extreme cognitive dissonance in their internal belief system.  This exercise is so exhausting that once they've formed an opinion, it is simply too much effort to try and change it.

Basically they have sort of brain damage that leaves them seeming normal, until they express their utterly retarded political opinions.

It's sad, really, and it's also one of the main reason they fight health care so fiercely.  They don't want the mental health services they so desperately need.
 
2013-10-11 03:20:59 PM
It's not arrogant when objective reality shows your political stance is indeed superior.
 
2013-10-11 03:27:58 PM
Mostly, I feel superior because of my enormous penis and my ability to satisfy any woman beyond her imagination, but my political beliefs are pretty awesome too.
 
2013-10-11 03:36:14 PM
I understand that I am merely a self-perpetuating chemical reaction; a temporary eddy in the energy of the universe. I understand that my perception of everything is itself a delicate chemical soup that can be seriously altered by the introduction of substances measured in millionths of a gram. I must always do what I believe is right even though it would be foolish vanity to presume to know what is right.

That said, I know what is wrong and if that bastard in South Dakota actually beat a 2 year old kid to death he should be executed by removing 90% of his skin with a sand blaster and then lowering him into a vat of rubbing alcohol.
 
2013-10-11 03:37:50 PM

CPennypacker: I don't feel superior about my beliefs. I feel superior about my intellect. My intellect leads to my beliefs.


born_yesterday: If we were sitting in a bar, and I posited "The Seattle Seahawks are the best goddamn football team in American history", you would likely be incredulous, at best.  You would probably start pointing out how other teams, such as the Steelers and 49ers, have significantly more Super Bowl rings (compared to none).  You might point out season winning percentages, or number of players in the Hall of Fame, or even the number of Pro Bowlers within a given period of time.

If these failed to convince me that I had no rational standing in declaring the Seahawks the best team ever, you'd probably write me off.  Hell, if I kept on about it, you would probably end up mocking it for me endlessly, or at least, not take my opinions on football seriously.

Why we have higher standards as a culture for debating sports than we do politics is something that bothers me greatly.  In part, it is because many people don't have similar parameters memorized to debate politics.  More importantly, it's because many people with strong opinions about politics are just like the Seahawks fanboy, to whom facts and statistics mean nothing compared to "rooting for the team" at all costs.  (And in the case of politics, especially when confronted with contrary information).


I don't know why, but both of these comments made me think of this blog post.
 
2013-10-11 03:45:54 PM
So when Psychological SCIENCE can diagnostically identify a conservative, should Medical SCIENCE attempt to cure conservatives?
If medical science develops a cure should insurance pay?
What if it was a vaccination?
Should you be required to vaccinate your kids?
And then what if you don't?
Knock-knock at your front door
It's the suede-denim secret police
They have come for your uncool niece!
 
2013-10-11 04:02:43 PM

TheWhoppah: So when Psychological SCIENCE can diagnostically identify a conservative, should Medical SCIENCE attempt to cure conservatives?
If medical science develops a cure should insurance pay?
What if it was a vaccination?
Should you be required to vaccinate your kids?
And then what if you don't?
Knock-knock at your front door
It's the suede-denim secret police
They have come for your uncool niece!


Holy hell. Can you imagine the shiatstorm that would happen if you could vaccinate your kids against conservatism?
 
2013-10-11 04:07:03 PM

nmrsnr: Nightjars: Its not a good idea to hold your own opinion in such high regard that you consider it to be objectively correct.

So which belief do you hold that you believe to be incorrect? And why do you continue to hold it?


Can an opinion be objectively correct?  In my opinion, no, it cannot.  It can merely represent the conclusions you have made based on information you have synthesized over time.  However, many people do take the view that their opinions ARE objectively correct, and defend them with greater zeal than is warranted.  Nobody is capable of true objective thinking; we all have biases, no matter how hard we try to overcome them.
 
2013-10-11 04:42:20 PM
Right wing wackos have taken over the Republican party.
They are so far on the wrong side, it has nothing to do with my own political beliefs.
 
2013-10-11 04:48:19 PM

TheWhoppah: So when Psychological SCIENCE can diagnostically identify a conservative, should Medical SCIENCE attempt to cure conservatives?


Two different senses of the word "science" there; the latter is more accurately "engineering", in that it involves an preference/ordering relationship over a set of choices.

There's a lot of other comments that are pretty sloppy about the is-ought distinction, too.
 
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