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(The Verge)   BBC releases 9 found Doctor Who episodes on iTunes. Androids, Cybermen disconsolate   (theverge.com) divider line 53
    More: Interesting, Doctor Who, iTunes  
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875 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 11 Oct 2013 at 11:01 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-11 11:03:02 AM  
I was elated to see this, and that they were classic Troughton episodes that are almost legendary (I read the novel for each, and they both were very good).  I was less elated about the iTunes thing.  WTF?
 
2013-10-11 11:07:45 AM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: I was elated to see this, and that they were classic Troughton episodes that are almost legendary (I read the novel for each, and they both were very good).  I was less elated about the iTunes thing.  WTF?


They're coming to DVD too, of course (the cover art's already floating around the interwebs).  The rumor is a late 2013 release for "Enemy of the World" and early 2014 for "Web of Fear".
 
2013-10-11 11:15:25 AM  
That leaves just 97 missing, right?
 
2013-10-11 11:20:42 AM  
I hate to be a cynic, but the timing seems suspicious.  How long might the Beeb have been holding onto these, only to release them this autumn with all of the hoopla and fan interest surrounding the fiftieth anniversary?

Don't get me wrong. I'm glad that they're out. I just wonder if we might have been able to have gotten sooner.

Meh, on the other hand, perhaps they were rushed into release (with the correspondingly higher costs for rushed restoration) in order to strike while the iron is hot, instead of not having them ready until next year.
 
2013-10-11 11:20:59 AM  

lemurs: whizbangthedirtfarmer: I was elated to see this, and that they were classic Troughton episodes that are almost legendary (I read the novel for each, and they both were very good).  I was less elated about the iTunes thing.  WTF?

They're coming to DVD too, of course (the cover art's already floating around the interwebs).  The rumor is a late 2013 release for "Enemy of the World" and early 2014 for "Web of Fear".


But I WANT THEM NOW.  Anyhoo, hopefully these episodes (and a few more discoveries) will continue to move Troughton up the ranks.  He and McCoy are severely underappreciated for the spin they put on the Doctor.
 
2013-10-11 11:24:04 AM  

HopScotchNSoda: I hate to be a cynic, but the timing seems suspicious.  How long might the Beeb have been holding onto these, only to release them this autumn with all of the hoopla and fan interest surrounding the fiftieth anniversary?

Don't get me wrong. I'm glad that they're out. I just wonder if we might have been able to have gotten sooner.

Meh, on the other hand, perhaps they were rushed into release (with the correspondingly higher costs for rushed restoration) in order to strike while the iron is hot, instead of not having them ready until next year.


I don't know.  The BBC has the research: a wide majority of nuWho fans don't give two shiats about the "Classic" series.  They may get a boost, but it's going to be the diehards like you and I who will work at getting these.
 
2013-10-11 11:26:16 AM  
whizbangthedirtfarmer:hopefully these episodes (and a few more discoveries) will continue to move Troughton up the ranks.  He and McCoy are severely underappreciated for the spin they put on the Doctor.

Not sure what you're talking about.  Troughton is usually in the top 4 of any list of "Favorite Doctors."  He's very appreciated.

McCoy, on the other hand... well, to me, his seasons are the worst, but it's not his fault.  Confusing plotlines and cheesier-than-usual baddies made his stories almost incomprehensible.
 
2013-10-11 11:29:18 AM  

HopScotchNSoda: I hate to be a cynic, but the timing seems suspicious.  How long might the Beeb have been holding onto these, only to release them this autumn with all of the hoopla and fan interest surrounding the fiftieth anniversary?


What's interesting is that the return of the "Web of Fear" coincides with reintroduction of the Great Intelligence to the new series after a very long absence.  If the find is more recent, that'd be an amazing coincidence.
 
2013-10-11 11:34:43 AM  

lemurs: HopScotchNSoda: I hate to be a cynic, but the timing seems suspicious.  How long might the Beeb have been holding onto these, only to release them this autumn with all of the hoopla and fan interest surrounding the fiftieth anniversary?

What's interesting is that the return of the "Web of Fear" coincides with reintroduction of the Great Intelligence to the new series after a very long absence.  If the find is more recent, that'd be an amazing coincidence.


Never ignore a coincidence. Unless you're busy, in which case always ignore a coincidence.
 
2013-10-11 11:34:48 AM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: .  Anyhoo, hopefully these episodes (and a few more discoveries) will continue to move Troughton up the ranks.  He and McCoy are severely underappreciated for the spin they put on the Doctor.



I like to think that both have gotten a boost from the recognition of how much they were the bases on which Moffat wrote the Eleventh Doctor.  Likewise, by McCoy's association with Sophie Aldred / Ace McShane who previewed so many aspects of the NuWho companions & quasi companions (most recently Jenny Flint, being both an ass-kicking lower-class girl who rose above her station and tends to dress in black, as well as for her proclivities regarding beastial lesbianism).
 
2013-10-11 11:41:42 AM  

LeoffDaGrate: McCoy, on the other hand... well, to me, his

first seasons are was the worst, but it's not his fault. Confusing plotlines and cheesier-than-usual baddies made his stories almost incomprehensible.

7 got better in his last two seasons. Rememberance of the Daleks and Curse of Fenric were amog the best classic series storylines. Plus he has a companion who could beat up a dalek with a baseball bat... "Nuff said.
 
2013-10-11 11:45:07 AM  

LeoffDaGrate: McCoy, on the other hand... well, to me, his seasons are the worst, but it's not his fault.  Confusing plotlines and cheesier-than-usual baddies made his stories almost incomprehensible.


I quite liked the character and found him one of the most enjoyable and intriguing Doctors, but McCoy's incessant r-rolling was a distraction


lemurs: What's interesting is that the return of the "Web of Fear" coincides with reintroduction of the Great Intelligence to the new series after a very long absence.  If the find is more recent, that'd be an amazing coincidence.

Oh, duh, I completely overlooked that.

On the other hand, the discovery of those episodes and their then-forthcoming restoration and release could have been Moffat's inspiration last year to revisit the character.
 
2013-10-11 11:47:32 AM  
I can't wait til Capaldi starts and all the fangirls get airlocked.
 
2013-10-11 11:47:59 AM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: I don't know.  The BBC has the research: a wide majority of nuWho fans don't give two shiats about the "Classic" series.  They may get a boost, but it's going to be the diehards like you and I who will work at getting these.


My boyfriend has literally not stopped "squeeing" over this release in the last 24 hours.  I finally left the house.

/don't care
//Davison is my Doctor
 
2013-10-11 12:06:50 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: How long might the Beeb have been holding onto these, only to release them this autumn with all of the hoopla and fan interest surrounding the fiftieth anniversary?


I'm going to guess since the big rumor this past summer that there were lost Who episodes in a big shipment of old tapes from Nigeria. So they probably found just enough time to restore them.
 
2013-10-11 12:07:27 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: I hate to be a cynic, but the timing seems suspicious.  How long might the Beeb have been holding onto these, only to release them this autumn with all of the hoopla and fan interest surrounding the fiftieth anniversary?

Don't get me wrong. I'm glad that they're out. I just wonder if we might have been able to have gotten sooner.

Meh, on the other hand, perhaps they were rushed into release (with the correspondingly higher costs for rushed restoration) in order to strike while the iron is hot, instead of not having them ready until next year.


My bet is rushed into release. It was only a couple months ago that there was word floating around that somebody unearthed them, and that's not a lot of turnaround time. Which is probably why they're doing this iTunes thing prior to DVD launch too- you don't have to deal with the costs or lead time of making and distributing physical media.

If they had had these in their pocket for a while, you'd probably see a more gradual rollout strategy. One or two a year, spaced out just enough to make it seem plausible that they were discovering and piecing them together. But really, it's pretty well known that the BBC destroyed the stuff, and considering that they've released what they've had in whole or in part already, it seems odd that they would release incomplete stuff with animation fill ins and have complete stories sitting in their pocket.

There's not a hidden agenda lurking behind every corner. Usually things are pretty much what the seem to be.
 
2013-10-11 12:09:21 PM  

A_Listless_Wanderer: 7 got better in his last two seasons. Rememberance of the Daleks and Curse of Fenric were amog the best classic series storylines. Plus he has a companion who could beat up a dalek with a baseball bat... "Nuff said.


The stories during Sylvester McCoy's tenure were - by and large - atrocious.  I've been told it's as a result of having to edit the shows for time, but I remember watching them and being totally puzzled as to what was going on.  Ghostlight was especially egregious as I recall.
 
2013-10-11 12:17:04 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: I hate to be a cynic, but the timing seems suspicious.  How long might the Beeb have been holding onto these, only to release them this autumn with all of the hoopla and fan interest surrounding the fiftieth anniversary?

Don't get me wrong. I'm glad that they're out. I just wonder if we might have been able to have gotten sooner.

Meh, on the other hand, perhaps they were rushed into release (with the correspondingly higher costs for rushed restoration) in order to strike while the iron is hot, instead of not having them ready until next year.




People are wonderingly Moffat knew about it, because of the use of The Great Intellegence.
 
2013-10-11 12:21:25 PM  

LeoffDaGrate: McCoy, on the other hand... well, to me, his seasons are the worst, but it's not his fault. Confusing plotlines and cheesier-than-usual baddies made his stories almost incomprehensible.


Well, when Ace joined him, there was a whole series of episodes that revealed a "dark" Doctor: Remembrance of the Daleks, Ghost Light, The Happiness Patrol, The Greatest Show in the Galaxy, and so on, that usually place in the top of the run.  It is upsetting to think about how much better a lot of McCoy's episodes would have been had they gotten the appropriate attention/funding.  Even so, those four I mentioned are incredibly inventive and opened the door for the "nu" Doctor.
 
2013-10-11 12:30:29 PM  

nyrB: The stories during Sylvester McCoy's tenure were - by and large - atrocious.  I've been told it's as a result of having to edit the shows for time, but I remember watching them and being totally puzzled as to what was going on.  Ghostlight was especially egregious as I recall.



Indeed.  However, Ghostlight has value as an experiment that came to significant use in the revived era. i.e., both the circular relationship that Ace had with the mansion and her apparent predestination to meet the Doctor.

Great concepts, bad execution.

Ghostlight and The Curse of Fenric were supposed to have another feature that has been used extensively in NuWho:  An off-the-cuff remark or vague reference that only becomes important in a later story. Ace makes a reference to the mansion in Curse. The two serials got flipped, though, such that what was supposed to be foreshadowing in Curse became a blah reference back to Ghostlight. Nowdays, stuff gets hinted at throughout the year (or even starting the year before): "Bad Wolf", "Torchwood", "the Silence will fall", "Mr. Saxon", "the fields of Trenzalore", et cet.

The same thing happened a couple of years ago. "Night Terrors" was supposed to air before "Let's Kill Hitler" and had the following exchange between the mum and the boy: "What do we do with things we don't like?" "We put them in the cupboard."
 
2013-10-11 12:32:31 PM  

nyrB: A_Listless_Wanderer: 7 got better in his last two seasons. Rememberance of the Daleks and Curse of Fenric were amog the best classic series storylines. Plus he has a companion who could beat up a dalek with a baseball bat... "Nuff said.

The stories during Sylvester McCoy's tenure were - by and large - atrocious.  I've been told it's as a result of having to edit the shows for time, but I remember watching them and being totally puzzled as to what was going on.  Ghostlight was especially egregious as I recall.


You are sort of right.  During the season that Ghost Light was run, the BBC was actively trying to kill off the show.  They did something like ordered 30 episodes, but then cut the order in half with only a few weeks before production began.  As a result, many of the episodes, including Ghost Light and the Curse of Fenric were slashed dramatically,  The BBC heads did an excellent job in undermining the show: they ordered a large run and then cut it by substantial margins before anything could be corrected.

Still, rewatch Ghost Light a few times.  It gets better on the second viewing.
 
2013-10-11 12:35:41 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: Ghostlight and The Curse of Fenric were supposed to have another feature that has been used extensively in NuWho: An off-the-cuff remark or vague reference that only becomes important in a later story. Ace makes a reference to the mansion in Curse. The two serials got flipped, though, such that what was supposed to be foreshadowing in Curse became a blah reference back to Ghostlight. Nowdays, stuff gets hinted at throughout the year (or even starting the year before): "Bad Wolf", "Torchwood", "the Silence will fall", "Mr. Saxon", "the fields of Trenzalore", et cet.


Yes, the reference was key: there's a scene in Ghost Light that was cut that explains why Ace was brought back to the mansion.  She burned it down while she lived there because she was traumatized by the events of Ghost Light (timey wimey, etc).  There's also subtle hints that Ace was sexually abused while at the mansion.
 
2013-10-11 12:39:57 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: You are sort of right. During the season that Ghost Light was run, the BBC was actively trying to kill off the show. They did something like ordered 30 episodes, but then cut the order in half with only a few weeks before production began. As a result, many of the episodes, including Ghost Light and the Curse of Fenric were slashed dramatically, The BBC heads did an excellent job in undermining the show: they ordered a large run and then cut it by substantial margins before anything could be corrected.

Still, rewatch Ghost Light a few times. It gets better on the second viewing.


It's sad because you can tell that those stories had a lot of potential.  I think the only one of McCoy's stories I enjoyed was the Remembrance of the Daleks.  "5, 6, 7 8 - it's the Doctor at the gate!"
 
2013-10-11 12:46:51 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: I hate to be a cynic, but the timing seems suspicious.  How long might the Beeb have been holding onto these, only to release them this autumn with all of the hoopla and fan interest surrounding the fiftieth anniversary?

Here I was thinking that the person who had these also had all the rest, but required the BBC's assistance in getting them out of the country. All the BBC would have had to do is give over some bank account information and the episodes would be deposited immediately.

 
2013-10-11 12:48:04 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: LeoffDaGrate: McCoy, on the other hand... well, to me, his seasons are the worst, but it's not his fault.  Confusing plotlines and cheesier-than-usual baddies made his stories almost incomprehensible.

I quite liked the character and found him one of the most enjoyable and intriguing Doctors, but McCoy's incessant r-rolling was a distraction


lemurs: What's interesting is that the return of the "Web of Fear" coincides with reintroduction of the Great Intelligence to the new series after a very long absence.  If the find is more recent, that'd be an amazing coincidence.

Oh, duh, I completely overlooked that.

On the other hand, the discovery of those episodes and their then-forthcoming restoration and release could have been Moffat's inspiration last year to revisit the character.


Yeah, it looks like it took them a long time to work on them and restore them because the picture quality is absolutely gorgeous compared to most of the episodes from that time period.  When I heard one of them was "Web of Fear", I knew instantly that Moffat had been planning this.  Personally, I think it's great...the fans of the classic series have been complaining that this whole anniversary is going to only be about the newest Doctors, but now they have two almost completely stories back from one of the most loved Doctors.  Plus Moffat said that he has been lying his arse off for a long time now about what's really coming, so yeah.  It was planned.  But I think it's a great tie-in and a great way to get those new Doctor Who fans interested in watching the classic stuff.
 
2013-10-11 12:52:11 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: There's also subtle hints that Ace was sexually abused while at the mansion.



The writers kept writing Ace as the first female companion to not be a presumed virgin, but their efforts usually ended up being thwarted.  In her début serial, Dragonfire, she is pretty clearly Glitz's disgruntled former lover, but the original script eliminated any doubt - and went so far as to imply that Glitz had popped her cherry.  Her scenes with Karra the cat lady in the final serial,  Battlefield, were written with obvious lesbian [and beastial] overtones (21 years before Jenny & Vastra's lesbian bestiality, and 16 years before Jack's gaiety), but the heavy make-up and contact lenses on Karra diminished all of the non-verbal cues. Ace's comfort in using her sexuality to lure the Soviet soldier away from his post in Curse of Fenric was one of the few things to make it on-screen intact.
 
2013-10-11 01:12:18 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: The writers kept writing Ace as the first female companion to not be a presumed virgin


I should have thought Barbara wasn't a virgin.  They never said one way or the other, of course, but she was in her 30s at the time.
 
2013-10-11 01:33:55 PM  

nyrB: HopScotchNSoda: The writers kept writing Ace as the first female companion to not be a presumed virgin

I should have thought Barbara wasn't a virgin.  They never said one way or the other, of course, but she was in her 30s at the time.



But she was never married - and this was the early sixties.  One simply didn't imply that she was a fallen woman, or that she and Ian were even considering anything the slightest bit romantic in the TARDIS.

On the other hand, she does say whilst staking out Totter's Lane in the dark in "An Unearthly Child" that she would be relieved to discover Susan meeting up with a boy.

Of course that famous cliffhanger shot of her against the wall - the one viewed from the Dalek's perspective - reeked of subliminal connotations of rape.
 
2013-10-11 02:13:24 PM  

nyrB: HopScotchNSoda: The writers kept writing Ace as the first female companion to not be a presumed virgin

I should have thought Barbara wasn't a virgin.  They never said one way or the other, of course, but she was in her 30s at the time.


I doubt anyone though Sarah Jane was a virgin either, that was in the seventies after all.
 
2013-10-11 02:43:35 PM  

Flint Ironstag: nyrB: HopScotchNSoda: The writers kept writing Ace as the first female companion to not be a presumed virgin

I should have thought Barbara wasn't a virgin.  They never said one way or the other, of course, but she was in her 30s at the time.

I doubt anyone though Sarah Jane was a virgin either, that was in the seventies after all.



But again, nothing was ever written (or directed) to imply that she was sexual or romantic in the slightest. She claimed at the end of "Death of the Doctor" that she loved Harry, but nothing on-screen implied in any way that they were anything but platonicly friendly co-workers.  Either Benton or Yates (I forgot which) had tried to schedule a date with her a couple of times, but new emergencies would get in the way, and neither looked like they really minded the pre-emption.

Heck, look at Susan. Did she even  kiss David before her grandfather the Doctor decided that she should stay and marry the guy, and locked her out of the TARDIS? Vicki and Troilus were 15- or 16-year-olds who had instant puppy-dog crushes for each other and decided to get married a couple of days after meeting.  Leela and Andred didn't have a courtship either; it was just, "Hey, you're a good warrior & leader. I think I'll stay on Gallifrey and marry you."

Romana was the first companion whom I can think of who even got flirty.

Writers tried to make Ace more realistically sexual, but it wasn't until the 1990s that significant change came. Grace had a live-in boyfriend, and Bruce was asleep next to Miranda when the Master's essence infiltrated him.  Meanwhile, Kate was a young single-mum raising her bastard son.
 
2013-10-11 02:46:49 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: whizbangthedirtfarmer: There's also subtle hints that Ace was sexually abused while at the mansion.


The writers kept writing Ace as the first female companion to not be a presumed virgin, but their efforts usually ended up being thwarted.  In her début serial, Dragonfire, she is pretty clearly Glitz's disgruntled former lover, but the original script eliminated any doubt - and went so far as to imply that Glitz had popped her cherry.  Her scenes with Karra the cat lady in the final serial,  Battlefield, were written with obvious lesbian [and beastial] overtones (21 years before Jenny & Vastra's lesbian bestiality, and 16 years before Jack's gaiety), but the heavy make-up and contact lenses on Karra diminished all of the non-verbal cues. Ace's comfort in using her sexuality to lure the Soviet soldier away from his post in Curse of Fenric was one of the few things to make it on-screen intact.


The matter of implied promiscuity on screen began with Jo Grant.
 
2013-10-11 02:48:57 PM  

Wasn't Looking at his Neck: HopScotchNSoda: whizbangthedirtfarmer: There's also subtle hints that Ace was sexually abused while at the mansion.


The writers kept writing Ace as the first female companion to not be a presumed virgin, but their efforts usually ended up being thwarted.  In her début serial, Dragonfire, she is pretty clearly Glitz's disgruntled former lover, but the original script eliminated any doubt - and went so far as to imply that Glitz had popped her cherry.  Her scenes with Karra the cat lady in the final serial,  Battlefield, were written with obvious lesbian [and beastial] overtones (21 years before Jenny & Vastra's lesbian bestiality, and 16 years before Jack's gaiety), but the heavy make-up and contact lenses on Karra diminished all of the non-verbal cues. Ace's comfort in using her sexuality to lure the Soviet soldier away from his post in Curse of Fenric was one of the few things to make it on-screen intact.

The matter of implied promiscuity on screen began with Jo Grant.


Yep, and the Doctor's cockblock in The Green Death is a classic moment.
 
2013-10-11 02:59:06 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: Wasn't Looking at his Neck: HopScotchNSoda: whizbangthedirtfarmer: There's also subtle hints that Ace was sexually abused while at the mansion.


The writers kept writing Ace as the first female companion to not be a presumed virgin, but their efforts usually ended up being thwarted.  In her début serial, Dragonfire, she is pretty clearly Glitz's disgruntled former lover, but the original script eliminated any doubt - and went so far as to imply that Glitz had popped her cherry.  Her scenes with Karra the cat lady in the final serial,  Battlefield, were written with obvious lesbian [and beastial] overtones (21 years before Jenny & Vastra's lesbian bestiality, and 16 years before Jack's gaiety), but the heavy make-up and contact lenses on Karra diminished all of the non-verbal cues. Ace's comfort in using her sexuality to lure the Soviet soldier away from his post in Curse of Fenric was one of the few things to make it on-screen intact.

The matter of implied promiscuity on screen began with Jo Grant.

Yep, and the Doctor's cockblock in The Green Death is a classic moment.



Good catch. I forgot about that one.  Still, she left to marry Cliff by the end of the serial (again, a guy she just met), and was still travelling the world with him 40 years later.
 
2013-10-11 03:01:34 PM  
Wait, I thought Robert Mugabe was revealed to have a bunch of them back 4 years ago, but wouldn't give 'em up because he hates the UK.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/tv/2255640/Evil-Robert- Mu gabe-hoards-lost-Doctor-Who-tapes.html
 
2013-10-11 03:37:55 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: I hate to be a cynic, but the timing seems suspicious.  How long might the Beeb have been holding onto these, only to release them this autumn with all of the hoopla and fan interest surrounding the fiftieth anniversary?


I personally think that they knew about it at least 18 months ago, and here's my (admittedly circumstantial)
justification (spoilers for this past series, but hey, if you haven't seen them by now you have no reason to
be mad):

The main villain of this past season of DOCTOR WHO was The Great Intelligence.  I think that, perhaps,
the BBC told Moffat about the recovery of these stories, and may have strongly implied that it would be
very nice if he could somehow do a little synergistic cross-promotion and work in some Troughton
homages.  This wouldn't have been much of a stretch:  Smith has said that he was strongly influenced in
his portrayal by Troughton (specifically TOMB OF THE CYBERMEN), and its not like they've peppered
the resurrected series with lots of little in-jokes, references and easter eggs for long term fans.  Perhaps
he would have done this no matter what, or perhaps it was a calculated infomercial-style promotion to
set the stage for the eventual release of WEB OF FEAR.

I'm thinking specifically of a throwaway line from last year's Christmas Special, where the Doctor makes
fun of The Great Intelligence for having wanted to take over the Underground in 1967 because Smith's
Doctor tricked him it into believing it was strategically important.

Or, I should really just relax.
 
2013-10-11 04:11:43 PM  

DjangoStonereaver: HopScotchNSoda: I hate to be a cynic, but the timing seems suspicious.  How long might the Beeb have been holding onto these, only to release them this autumn with all of the hoopla and fan interest surrounding the fiftieth anniversary?

I personally think that they knew about it at least 18 months ago, and here's my (admittedly circumstantial)
justification (spoilers for this past series, but hey, if you haven't seen them by now you have no reason to
be mad):

The main villain of this past season of DOCTOR WHO was The Great Intelligence.  I think that, perhaps,
the BBC told Moffat about the recovery of these stories, and may have strongly implied that it would be
very nice if he could somehow do a little synergistic cross-promotion and work in some Troughton
homages.  This wouldn't have been much of a stretch:  Smith has said that he was strongly influenced in
his portrayal by Troughton (specifically TOMB OF THE CYBERMEN), and its not like they've peppered
the resurrected series with lots of little in-jokes, references and easter eggs for long term fans.  Perhaps
he would have done this no matter what, or perhaps it was a calculated infomercial-style promotion to
set the stage for the eventual release of WEB OF FEAR.

I'm thinking specifically of a throwaway line from last year's Christmas Special, where the Doctor makes
fun of The Great Intelligence for having wanted to take over the Underground in 1967 because Smith's
Doctor tricked him it into believing it was strategically important.

Or, I should really just relax.


Yes, I've quickly come to assume that Moffat brought back the Great Intelligence because of this.

Two episodes before bringing the GI back, he canonized a character from its most recent prior appearance:  The Great Intelligence and its yetis were allied with Professor Travers and  Victoria Waterfield in the 1995 direct-to-video spin-off,  Downtime, in which they were defeated by Sarah Jane Smith and Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart. Downtime introduced his daughter Kate, who then starred in
Dæmos Rising. Kate's existence had never even been alluded to on the series in the classic era.

He also seems to have paid homage, intentionally or otherwise, to a First Doctor story: The Great Intelligence's operation and its massive computer system in "The Bells of St. John" seemed more than a little reminiscent of the evil supercomputer WOTAN in  The War Machines, not least of which because each was contained within London's then-newest landmark building.
 
2013-10-11 04:16:48 PM  
Just downloaded Enemy. Maybe it's 'cuz of the excitement over watching something not available for decades, but 6:20 into episode 1 is an awesome moment.
 
2013-10-11 04:37:05 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: But she was never married - and this was the early sixties.  One simply didn't imply that she was a fallen woman, or that she and Ian were even considering anything the slightest bit romantic in the TARDIS.


You should rewatch The Romans.
 
2013-10-11 05:34:52 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: DjangoStonereaver: HopScotchNSoda: I hate to be a cynic, but the timing seems suspicious.  How long might the Beeb have been holding onto these, only to release them this autumn with all of the hoopla and fan interest surrounding the fiftieth anniversary?

I personally think that they knew about it at least 18 months ago, and here's my (admittedly circumstantial)
justification (spoilers for this past series, but hey, if you haven't seen them by now you have no reason to
be mad):

The main villain of this past season of DOCTOR WHO was The Great Intelligence.  I think that, perhaps,
the BBC told Moffat about the recovery of these stories, and may have strongly implied that it would be
very nice if he could somehow do a little synergistic cross-promotion and work in some Troughton
homages.  This wouldn't have been much of a stretch:  Smith has said that he was strongly influenced in
his portrayal by Troughton (specifically TOMB OF THE CYBERMEN), and its not like they've peppered
the resurrected series with lots of little in-jokes, references and easter eggs for long term fans.  Perhaps
he would have done this no matter what, or perhaps it was a calculated infomercial-style promotion to
set the stage for the eventual release of WEB OF FEAR.

I'm thinking specifically of a throwaway line from last year's Christmas Special, where the Doctor makes
fun of The Great Intelligence for having wanted to take over the Underground in 1967 because Smith's
Doctor tricked him it into believing it was strategically important.

Or, I should really just relax.

Yes, I've quickly come to assume that Moffat brought back the Great Intelligence because of this.

Two episodes before bringing the GI back, he canonized a character from its most recent prior appearance:  The Great Intelligence and its yetis were allied with Professor Travers and  Victoria Waterfield in the 1995 direct-to-video spin-off,  Downtime, in which they were defeated by Sarah Jane Smith and Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart. ...


This would require Moffat to have some sort of grand plan, and I just don't think he can do this.  I may be proven wrong, but the last season was horrible, with only a few bright spots, and Moffat often manipulated the scripts for cheap stuff.  He told Gaiman to insert the ludicrous flirty Cyber-Doctor scene and encouraged many writers to trim their plots down to the point they were practically non-sensical.  I look forward to the Christmas special and the Day of the Doctor, mostly because Moffat does an excellent job at the bombast/fantasy, not so much so actual showrunning.

\shame he's beaten all of his best creations to death by now
\\except for the Silence, who just ... vanished, probably embarrassed by just how stupid their plan was
 
2013-10-11 06:10:51 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: This would require Moffat to have some sort of grand plan, and I just don't think he can do this.  I may be proven wrong, but the last season was horrible, with only a few bright spots, and Moffat often manipulated the scripts for cheap stuff.  He told Gaiman to insert the ludicrous flirty Cyber-Doctor scene and encouraged many writers to trim their plots down to the point they were practically non-sensical.  I look forward to the Christmas special and the Day of the Doctor, mostly because Moffat does an excellent job at the bombast/fantasy, not so much so actual showrunning.

\shame he's beaten all of his best creations to death by now
\\except for the Silence, who just ... vanished, probably embarrassed by just how stupid their plan was



It wouldn't feel like a Doctor Who internet thread without someone putting up the ol' Moffat-bashing post.

/seriously, get over it
//series 7 was really good
 
2013-10-11 06:42:21 PM  

bborchar: whizbangthedirtfarmer: This would require Moffat to have some sort of grand plan, and I just don't think he can do this.  I may be proven wrong, but the last season was horrible, with only a few bright spots, and Moffat often manipulated the scripts for cheap stuff.  He told Gaiman to insert the ludicrous flirty Cyber-Doctor scene and encouraged many writers to trim their plots down to the point they were practically non-sensical.  I look forward to the Christmas special and the Day of the Doctor, mostly because Moffat does an excellent job at the bombast/fantasy, not so much so actual showrunning.

\shame he's beaten all of his best creations to death by now
\\except for the Silence, who just ... vanished, probably embarrassed by just how stupid their plan was


It wouldn't feel like a Doctor Who internet thread without someone putting up the ol' Moffat-bashing post.

/seriously, get over it
//series 7 was really good


I have no idea what you're smoking.  Hey, it's your opinion, but there was only one really decent episode.  The rest ranged from godawful to near wastes of time to rushed conclusions that made little sense.  You may be the only person who has attached "really good" to series 7; Doctor Who Magazine and SFX, long impartial or cheerleading for Doctor Who, were both terribly critical of the series.
 
2013-10-11 07:32:29 PM  

nyrB: whizbangthedirtfarmer: You are sort of right. During the season that Ghost Light was run, the BBC was actively trying to kill off the show. They did something like ordered 30 episodes, but then cut the order in half with only a few weeks before production began. As a result, many of the episodes, including Ghost Light and the Curse of Fenric were slashed dramatically, The BBC heads did an excellent job in undermining the show: they ordered a large run and then cut it by substantial margins before anything could be corrected.

Still, rewatch Ghost Light a few times. It gets better on the second viewing.

It's sad because you can tell that those stories had a lot of potential.  I think the only one of McCoy's stories I enjoyed was the Remembrance of the Daleks.  "5, 6, 7 8 - it's the Doctor at the gate!"


Alot of the McCoy episodes get better with repeated viewing, you start to pick up on a lof of the more subtle background stuff. As others have mentioned Remembrance and Fenric are great and are equal to anything done before. Ghostlight again is rushed and stilted but still is very good but needs multiple viewings so you can stop watching the plot and watch what else is going on.

It's a shame what they did to the McCoy run but was typical of the attitude at the BBC at the time with genre telivision that still hung around well in to the 00's.
 
2013-10-11 09:57:41 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: bborchar: whizbangthedirtfarmer: This would require Moffat to have some sort of grand plan, and I just don't think he can do this.  I may be proven wrong, but the last season was horrible, with only a few bright spots, and Moffat often manipulated the scripts for cheap stuff.  He told Gaiman to insert the ludicrous flirty Cyber-Doctor scene and encouraged many writers to trim their plots down to the point they were practically non-sensical.  I look forward to the Christmas special and the Day of the Doctor, mostly because Moffat does an excellent job at the bombast/fantasy, not so much so actual showrunning.

\shame he's beaten all of his best creations to death by now
\\except for the Silence, who just ... vanished, probably embarrassed by just how stupid their plan was


It wouldn't feel like a Doctor Who internet thread without someone putting up the ol' Moffat-bashing post.

/seriously, get over it
//series 7 was really good

I have no idea what you're smoking.  Hey, it's your opinion, but there was only one really decent episode.  The rest ranged from godawful to near wastes of time to rushed conclusions that made little sense.  You may be the only person who has attached "really good" to series 7; Doctor Who Magazine and SFX, long impartial or cheerleading for Doctor Who, were both terribly critical of the series.


Not smoking anything...it has a bunch of great episodes in it.

Asylum of the Daleks, Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS, The Bells of Saint John, The Crimson Horror, The Name of the Doctor, Angels Take Manhattan...all of those were really good to excellent episodes.  The rest of them may not have been great, but they had great moments in them, like the "I Am a Ghost" scene in "Hide", the Doctor's speech in "Rings of Akhaten", or the Doctor and Amy talking by the river in "The Power of Three".  I don't really care what critics say...I watched them and I liked them a lot, especially on further viewings.
 
2013-10-11 10:20:03 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer:  have no idea what you're smoking.  Hey, it's your opinion, but there was only one really decent episode.  The rest ranged from godawful to near wastes of time to rushed conclusions that made little sense.  You may be the only person who has attached "really good" to series 7; Doctor Who Magazine and SFX, long impartial or cheerleading for Doctor Who, were both terribly critical of the series.


They're not the only one. The Angels Take Manhattan, The Snowmen, and Hide are absolutely classics to me, and I can't say anything negative about Asylum, Rings, Name, or The Crimson Horror (and I usually dislike Gatiss's stories). Hell, I even begrudgingly appreciated Chibnall's episodes. Chris "Cyberwoman" Chibnall! I can understand the reasons why folks look at the season a bit less favorably, but for me, I loved it, especially the second half.

Speaking of Chibnall, is Broadchurch really any good? I keep on seeing these stellar reviews of it, but I don't believe them because it's Chris Farking Chibnall.
 
2013-10-11 10:33:39 PM  

bborchar: whizbangthedirtfarmer: bborchar: whizbangthedirtfarmer: This would require Moffat to have some sort of grand plan, and I just don't think he can do this.  I may be proven wrong, but the last season was horrible, with only a few bright spots, and Moffat often manipulated the scripts for cheap stuff.  He told Gaiman to insert the ludicrous flirty Cyber-Doctor scene and encouraged many writers to trim their plots down to the point they were practically non-sensical.  I look forward to the Christmas special and the Day of the Doctor, mostly because Moffat does an excellent job at the bombast/fantasy, not so much so actual showrunning.

\shame he's beaten all of his best creations to death by now
\\except for the Silence, who just ... vanished, probably embarrassed by just how stupid their plan was


It wouldn't feel like a Doctor Who internet thread without someone putting up the ol' Moffat-bashing post.

/seriously, get over it
//series 7 was really good

I have no idea what you're smoking.  Hey, it's your opinion, but there was only one really decent episode.  The rest ranged from godawful to near wastes of time to rushed conclusions that made little sense.  You may be the only person who has attached "really good" to series 7; Doctor Who Magazine and SFX, long impartial or cheerleading for Doctor Who, were both terribly critical of the series.

Not smoking anything...it has a bunch of great episodes in it.

Asylum of the Daleks, Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS, The Bells of Saint John, The Crimson Horror, The Name of the Doctor, Angels Take Manhattan...all of those were really good to excellent episodes.  The rest of them may not have been great, but they had great moments in them, like the "I Am a Ghost" scene in "Hide", the Doctor's speech in "Rings of Akhaten", or the Doctor and Amy talking by the river in "The Power of Three".  I don't really care what critics say...I watched them and I liked them a lot, especially on further viewings.


Well, that's okay, but I found myself turning my brain off in order not to get offended by the silliness or the laziness of some of the scripts you mentioned.  There were MASSIVE holes in many of the stories.  I liked Asylum.  I was okay with The Crimson Horror (although Strax, Vastra, and Jenny were overkill).  "Hide's" ending was ridiculous, and the TARDIS's cloister bell rang for no easily discernible reason.

For me, it was the first time I did not make Doctor Who appointment television since its relaunch.  I actually, for Journey and Saint John, found myself resisting the urge to press the forward button.  Just not well written and little more than fluff.  For the other episodes, I'm hard pressed to think of any great moments in Dinosaurs on a Space Ship, Akhaten (sure, the speech, but what about the other 41 minutes?), and A Town Called Mercy.  The Power of Three was irritating, as like, Journey, it relied on a magical reset button that rendered the entire episode pointless.

But those are opinions, and you are allowed to have yours.  I just think that this series was the worst one since the relaunch in terms of overall quality.
 
2013-10-11 10:34:12 PM  

chascarrillo: whizbangthedirtfarmer:  have no idea what you're smoking.  Hey, it's your opinion, but there was only one really decent episode.  The rest ranged from godawful to near wastes of time to rushed conclusions that made little sense.  You may be the only person who has attached "really good" to series 7; Doctor Who Magazine and SFX, long impartial or cheerleading for Doctor Who, were both terribly critical of the series.

They're not the only one. The Angels Take Manhattan, The Snowmen, and Hide are absolutely classics to me, and I can't say anything negative about Asylum, Rings, Name, or The Crimson Horror (and I usually dislike Gatiss's stories). Hell, I even begrudgingly appreciated Chibnall's episodes. Chris "Cyberwoman" Chibnall! I can understand the reasons why folks look at the season a bit less favorably, but for me, I loved it, especially the second half.

Speaking of Chibnall, is Broadchurch really any good? I keep on seeing these stellar reviews of it, but I don't believe them because it's Chris Farking Chibnall.


Yes, it is shockingly good for a Chibnall production. Not only does it feature 4 actors who have appeared in Who, but it also was directed by Euros Lyn, who was behind the camera for some of the most gorgeous episodes of Nu Who. It's a must-watch for any Whovian.

/Though I'm curious how the American version can work.
 
2013-10-11 10:35:34 PM  

chascarrillo: whizbangthedirtfarmer:  have no idea what you're smoking.  Hey, it's your opinion, but there was only one really decent episode.  The rest ranged from godawful to near wastes of time to rushed conclusions that made little sense.  You may be the only person who has attached "really good" to series 7; Doctor Who Magazine and SFX, long impartial or cheerleading for Doctor Who, were both terribly critical of the series.

They're not the only one. The Angels Take Manhattan, The Snowmen, and Hide are absolutely classics to me, and I can't say anything negative about Asylum, Rings, Name, or The Crimson Horror (and I usually dislike Gatiss's stories). Hell, I even begrudgingly appreciated Chibnall's episodes. Chris "Cyberwoman" Chibnall! I can understand the reasons why folks look at the season a bit less favorably, but for me, I loved it, especially the second half.

Speaking of Chibnall, is Broadchurch really any good? I keep on seeing these stellar reviews of it, but I don't believe them because it's Chris Farking Chibnall.


I was shocked by Broadchurch's quality.  Chibnall's writing was actually pretty good, but he made a few mistakes (the ending was rushed, a side story went nowhere fast, the red herrings were, in some places REALLY OBVIOUS red herrings).  I do think that the cast was superb, and they may have carried some of the weaknesses.  It was worth my time, and I enjoyed it quite a bit.

When it was over, I found myself surprised I had this reaction to a Chibnall work.
 
2013-10-12 01:06:44 AM  

MattyFridays: I can't wait til Capaldi starts and all the fangirls get airlocked.


Are you kidding?  A smart, handsome older guy with a Scottish accent?  You think that would repel fangirls?

You are too late, you bitter little ball of nerd rage.  The fangirling over Capaldi has already started.  They are working their way through his entire back catalogue of works.  They are producing Malcolm Tucker/Doctor mashups.  There are gifs.  There is art.  There are videos.  There are manips.  There's fanfiction.

So take your "fake geek girl" "stop liking things the wrong way" bullshiat and go back to masturbating to the companions' tits like the sad bastard you are.
 
2013-10-12 03:24:44 AM  
I am disappointed that NOBODY in here made some witty comment about them being in Nigeria, belonging to a former prince, and we had to send some agent money to be rewarded with a sizeable share of the episodes for our troubles.
 
2013-10-12 08:08:15 AM  

bluorangefyre: I am disappointed that NOBODY in here made some witty comment about them being in Nigeria, belonging to a former prince, and we had to send some agent money to be rewarded with a sizeable share of the episodes for our troubles.



Looks like the article's commenters were on top of that anyway...


No - they're from Nigeria - didn't you get the letter...
Dear sir 
You may be surprise to receive this letterfrom me,since you dont know me personally,I am Joshua Hartnell. The son of DR WILLIAM HARTNELL WHO, Who recently starred in Doctor Who. I got your contact as i was searching for a reliable and reputable person to handle a very confidential business which involve a transfer of video taped to a foreign broadcasting network and i decided to write you my late father was among the few Whovians who lived in Nigeria, Before my father death,he had taken to Gallifrey and deposited 11 episodes ,The episodes right now is in iTUNES, as if he forseen the looming danger of Google Play. The Tapes were deposited in a biscuit tine as valuable items to avoid over taxed custom clearance.etc etc etc
 
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