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(io9)   This just in: scientists are assholes   (io9.com) divider line 69
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12671 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Oct 2013 at 1:06 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-10 01:07:14 PM  
The entire apparatus was then vibrated up and down.
 
2013-10-10 01:07:27 PM  
I'm pretty sure that's in the preamble to the Republican Party platform.
 
2013-10-10 01:10:29 PM  
I don't want to live in a world where fake-punching a kitten makes me an asshole.
 
2013-10-10 01:11:03 PM  
It's a cat. 15 bucks gets you one on any corner in breeding season.
 
2013-10-10 01:12:59 PM  
i20.photobucket.com
 
2013-10-10 01:15:12 PM  
images3.wikia.nocookie.net

Monroe: It's a special isolation chamber. The subject pulls levers to receive food and water. The floor can become electrified, and showers of icy water randomly fall on the subject. I call it... The Monroe Box!

Grampa: Uh huh. Sounds interesting. How much will it cost to build?

Monroe: Oh, that's the beauty part! It's already built! I need the money to buy a baby to raise in the box until the age of thirty.

Grampa: What are you trying to prove?

Monroe: Well, my theory is that the subject will be socially maladjusted and will harbor a deep resentment towards me.

Grampa: Mm. Interesting.
 
2013-10-10 01:18:03 PM  
We here at Flamethrower Development Laboratories believe in humane treatment of test subjects. That's why each kitten receives a teeny-tiny pair of widdle sunglasses before we begin experimentation.
 
2013-10-10 01:18:31 PM  
blog.eternalvigilance.me
 
2013-10-10 01:20:25 PM  

Yogimus: It's a cat. 15 bucks gets you one on any corner in breeding season.


I once visited the lab of a guy doing robotics research for spinal chord victims. They would cut cats open and implant chips in their spinal columns and wouldn't fully close them up but used binder clips instead. He built the robotic arms that would move the cat's legs while they measured the nervous feedback. He said that they lost a few cats simply because they weren't exactly surgeons and were kind of just winging that portion of their research. But they were on the leading edge of their field and are helping many people have a way better quality of life.
 
2013-10-10 01:20:35 PM  
So, nerds, this is what it has come to.  Because i was mean to you in high school, you harbored that deep resentment throughout your academic career, and now, finally, you get back at me by going after my kitten.
 
2013-10-10 01:24:16 PM  
img.pandawhale.com
 
2013-10-10 01:25:01 PM  
Are the physiologies of cats so close to humans that experiments like this yeild anything worthwhile?

Not to go all Joseph Mengela on everyone, but there are perfectly good humans on death row that could be used for experminents.  I wonder why we don't make better use of them.  Or maybe just narrow it down to pedophile sex offenders.
 
2013-10-10 01:25:26 PM  
autophiliac.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-10-10 01:25:41 PM  
i43.tinypic.com

/Sooooo doesn't approve.
 
2013-10-10 01:26:14 PM  
I kind of want one Of those immobile kittens.
 
2013-10-10 01:27:54 PM  
I could post pictures of incredibly evil feline torture going on at the average university, but it would probably get me banned.
 
jvl
2013-10-10 01:28:28 PM  
As long as he donated the cats to the local soup kitchen afterwards, I don't see a problem.
 
2013-10-10 01:31:59 PM  
So that's the grumpy cat origin story!
 
2013-10-10 01:33:56 PM  
Those scientists are assholes...
 
2013-10-10 01:34:03 PM  
When the Fark Caturday Contingent sees this there is going to be hell to pay.
 
2013-10-10 01:34:34 PM  
I want an immobile kitten to go along with my bonsai kitten.
 
2013-10-10 01:35:03 PM  
If this doesn't convince you, read up about Mengele, or read this:
img1.fantasticfiction.co.uk
/yeah, I'm a scientist
 
2013-10-10 01:36:48 PM  
particularly operation paperclip scientists


/the biggest assholes
 
2013-10-10 01:39:23 PM  
So what results were they going for that justifies animal torture?

/fark those "scientists"
 
2013-10-10 01:44:10 PM  
Immobile Kitten would make a decent band name...
 
2013-10-10 01:47:53 PM  
i09 - amazing news from 50 years ago!
 
2013-10-10 01:48:28 PM  
The described study was done back in the 60's.  We're more enlightened now.  Or not . . .  http://www.uwnotinourname.org/.
 
2013-10-10 01:51:43 PM  
*click*
*sees pic of kitten with heading "Two Kitten Experiment"*
*clicks away*
 
2013-10-10 01:54:00 PM  
Of course, the objection here is that the animals being used are kittens, which is half the reason why anything larger than a hamster has stricter rules about the work you can do with it. The fact that this was all done without any injections or surgery to the animals means that it was incredibly gentle compared to most lab animal research.

I wonder if they could have used mice for this experiment.

Russ1642: Yogimus: It's a cat. 15 bucks gets you one on any corner in breeding season.

I once visited the lab of a guy doing robotics research for spinal chord victims. They would cut cats open and implant chips in their spinal columns and wouldn't fully close them up but used binder clips instead. He built the robotic arms that would move the cat's legs while they measured the nervous feedback. He said that they lost a few cats simply because they weren't exactly surgeons and were kind of just winging that portion of their research. But they were on the leading edge of their field and are helping many people have a way better quality of life.


That university's IRB is not doing their job.
 
2013-10-10 02:01:24 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: [blog.eternalvigilance.me image 500x391]


... No one has mentioned religion yet.

Russ1642: Yogimus: It's a cat. 15 bucks gets you one on any corner in breeding season.

I once visited the lab of a guy doing robotics research for spinal chord victims. They would cut cats open and implant chips in their spinal columns and wouldn't fully close them up but used binder clips instead. He built the robotic arms that would move the cat's legs while they measured the nervous feedback. He said that they lost a few cats simply because they weren't exactly surgeons and were kind of just winging that portion of their research. But they were on the leading edge of their field and are helping many people have a way better quality of life.


This is either bullshiat, or, as someone else said, that University's IRB board is being criminally negligent. There are *rules* when you use animals in experiments. One of the rules is that YOU KNOW WHAT THE fark YOU ARE DOING.

fark, purely discarding ethics, if they're just 'winging' the surgery part, THEIR RESULTS ARE PROBABLY USELESS. Since they don't know exactly what they're doing (And they are losing cats because they are using 'binder clips'), then they likely aren't operating on every cat in the same way, which means they have no good control, no good thing to compare against, etc.

How do they know they're installing the chip the same way each time? How are they accounting for improper healing? Etc etc.
 
2013-10-10 02:01:26 PM  
I think this is the same lab that commercialized some of their research on the Bonsai Kitten website:

http://bonsaikitten.com/bnw.html
 
2013-10-10 02:01:42 PM  

spunkymunky: I kind of want one Of those immobile kittens.


TFA has instructions for DIY.
 
2013-10-10 02:02:48 PM  
This just in, Science no longer exists.
 
2013-10-10 02:04:03 PM  
What if they were Evil Kittens?
 
2013-10-10 02:06:35 PM  
i236.photobucket.com
 
2013-10-10 02:08:02 PM  

J. Frank Parnell: I could post pictures of incredibly evil feline torture going on at the average university, but it would probably get me banned.


Co-ed dormitory pussy torture? I think I saw that movie.
 
2013-10-10 02:08:57 PM  
Am I the only one who's ok with that experiment? I was expecting electroshock and stuff. The kitten even fully recovered at the end.

I do believe The same experiment on human babies would be wrong, and in fact worst has been done using babies.
 
2013-10-10 02:11:15 PM  

talkertopc: The kitten even fully recovered at the end.


"Still, the Immobile Kittens never became visually normal. Their time in the dark, and without the ability to work with the world around them, left a permanent mark on them."
 
2013-10-10 02:17:32 PM  
i41.tinypic.com
 
2013-10-10 02:17:43 PM  

Great_Milenko: Monroe: Well, my theory is that the subject will be socially maladjusted and will harbor a deep resentment towards me.

Grampa: Mm. Interesting.


Only if it knows who you are.
 
2013-10-10 02:19:21 PM  

Eddie Adams from Torrance: [i236.photobucket.com image 236x297]


chair, keyboard, etc.
 
2013-10-10 02:31:51 PM  
Why doesn't scientists do study and tests on themselves. All these so called tests just seem to be bored scientists trying to think of dumb things to test. It reminds me of middle school when we would do dumb things just to see what would happen.  I thought these "scientists" have deegrees and years of schooling. But I guess with all of that, they would still rather do dumb things.  Hey all of these Scientists, if you get bored just read Fark, don't go traumatizing innocent little kittens. Well at least in your next life you will be one of those kittens (or worse a frog) who gets tested on for so called "science."   Oh, wait I forgot your "scientists" you don't believe in this stuff.
 
2013-10-10 02:36:15 PM  
In terms of horrific animal experiments, this is about a 1 of 10.
 
2013-10-10 02:41:22 PM  
Yep, animal research is a thing. More at 11.

We have a pressing need to understand living things. Hence, we have a pressing need to experiment on living things. Those are the stakes.

durbnpoisn: Are the physiologies of cats so close to humans that experiments like this yeild anything worthwhile?


Cats are used in many studies, often because they're readily available. Animal control shelters euthanize gobs and gobs of cats every year. This way some of them can go to a good purpose instead of starving and dying on the street.
 
2013-10-10 02:51:43 PM  
They are assholes because...why?

Was it because they didn't let a hungry Chinese family eat the leftovers?
 
2013-10-10 03:04:44 PM  

Fubini: Cats are used in many studies, often because they're readily available. Animal control shelters euthanize gobs and gobs of cats every year. This way some of them can go to a good purpose instead of starving and dying on the street.


As long as you are a robot with zero empathy for living things that makes perfect sense.

There's also lots of old people just going to waste in retirement homes which could be tortured in experiments.
 
2013-10-10 03:17:03 PM  

Jclark666: The entire apparatus was then vibrated up and down.


Nice Ministry reference.
Assuming that's what you were going for.
 
2013-10-10 03:38:00 PM  
Sacramento, CA - From preventing polio to finding cures for cancer patients, animal research has saved countless lives.

Using animals in research is a concern to some; however, the benefits derived from the ethical, humane use of laboratory animals for biomedical research are huge. Nearly every major medical breakthrough in the last 100 years has been achieved by research with animals.

"These animals are heroes. Their contribution to discovering life-saving advancements in medicine and science-for both pets and humans-is enormous," said Jon Klingborg, DVM, president of the California Veterinary Medical Association (CVMA). "Thanks to the last century of animal research, we have achieved life-saving treatments for people and animals. As veterinarians, we are able to treat more ailments and prevent more diseases, and that allows us to keep our pets living longer and healthier."

Without animal research, millions of dogs, cats, birds, and farm animals would be dead from more than 200 diseases, including anthrax, distemper, rabies, feline leukemia, and canine parvo virus, according to Americans for Medical Progress (AMP), a nonprofit group that supports the responsible and humane use of animals in biomedical research. Today, those diseases are largely preventable, thanks to vaccines and treatments developed in animal research.

In human terms, research with animals has led to vaccinations against smallpox, measles, mumps, diphtheria, and tetanus; development of anesthesia, antibiotics, and insulin; use of cardiac pacemakers and heart bypass surgery; surgical advancements for organ transplants, hip replacements, and cataract surgery; and treatments for a host of diseases, including diabetes, multiple sclerosis, AIDS, and children's leukemia.

The CVMA supports the use of animal research when conducted in a responsible, humane manner for medical and scientific research where there are no non-animal alternatives. Federal law requires that animal testing be conducted before most clinical trials involving people are allowed.

Research animals are protected by a host of state, federal, and international laws. It is estimated that less than half-a-percent of research animals are dogs, cats, and primates. According to AMP, more than 95 percent of research animals are rats and mice bred for research studies.

In California, the American Association for Laboratory Animal Science promotes the safe and humane treatment of research animals in hospitals, universities, and research centers statewide. Its Northern California chapter has more than 800 members, including veterinarians, researchers, and educators.

"Looking back at what has been accomplished makes us even more hopeful that animal research will continue to yield life-saving treatments for ourselves and our pets," said Dr. Klingborg.

For more information on the benefits of animal research, contact Phil Boerner at the CVMA
 
2013-10-10 03:42:36 PM  

hstein3: That university's IRB is not doing their job.


IRB is strictly for human subjects.   The IACUC (Institutional animal care and use committee) covers animal experimentation.
 
2013-10-10 03:46:11 PM  
How was the immobile kitten unable to move itself if its paws were touching the ground?  Perhaps I'm missing something here...

/genuine curiosity...
 
2013-10-10 03:47:02 PM  

BenJAM'n: Why doesn't scientists do study and tests on themselves.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-experimentation_in_medicine
 
2013-10-10 03:49:32 PM  

J. Frank Parnell: As long as you are a robot with zero empathy for living things that makes perfect sense.


It's better just to euthanize the whole lot?

You realize that cats don't have feelings, right?
 
2013-10-10 03:50:05 PM  

Russ1642: Yogimus: It's a cat. 15 bucks gets you one on any corner in breeding season.

I once visited the lab of a guy doing robotics research for spinal chord victims. They would cut cats open and implant chips in their spinal columns and wouldn't fully close them up but used binder clips instead. He built the robotic arms that would move the cat's legs while they measured the nervous feedback. He said that they lost a few cats simply because they weren't exactly surgeons and were kind of just winging that portion of their research. But they were on the leading edge of their field and are helping many people have a way better quality of life.


And they got IACUC approval how?
 
2013-10-10 03:53:06 PM  
WERNSTROM!
 
2013-10-10 03:55:49 PM  

Fubini: J. Frank Parnell: As long as you are a robot with zero empathy for living things that makes perfect sense.

It's better just to euthanize the whole lot?

You realize that cats don't have feelings, right?


Now you are going to have to define what you mean by feelings.

Pain, hunger, etc -- cats certainly do.
 
2013-10-10 04:01:36 PM  

Archae hippy: hstein3: That university's IRB is not doing their job.

IRB is strictly for human subjects.   The IACUC (Institutional animal care and use committee) covers animal experimentation.


Noted. One hearty facepalm (for myself) coming up.

/Really don't miss grad school
 
2013-10-10 04:08:46 PM  

Two16: [i41.tinypic.com image 850x647]


Disclaimer: Not an actual quote from Bill Nye.
 
2013-10-10 04:36:12 PM  

real_headhoncho: What if they were Evil Kittens?


What are you trying to say?
 
2013-10-10 04:49:05 PM  

Rev. Skarekroe: Jclark666: The entire apparatus was then vibrated up and down.

Nice Ministry reference.
Assuming that's what you were going for.


Nothing is obscure on Fark.
 
2013-10-10 04:52:23 PM  

Evil Mackerel: real_headhoncho: What if they were Evil Kittens?

What are you trying to say?



www.jimusnr.com
 
2013-10-10 05:19:53 PM  
i1182.photobucket.com
 
2013-10-10 05:22:29 PM  
The experiment has a somewhat happy ending. The Immobile Kittens were placed in lighted rooms for about forty-eight hours and allowed to explore freely. They were retested and had learned to understand visual cliffs. So even if deprived of stimulus, the brain can still learn. Still, the Immobile Kittens never became visually normal. Their time in the dark, and without the ability to work with the world around them, left a permanent mark on them.

Not that it probably matters. Nearly all animal research ends with euthanasia and (usually) dissection. Hard to justify not doing it in this case, since you'd want to see if there were any morphological differences in the visual areas of the brain. However, in any case, most ethics boards will require euthanasia at the end of an experiment. Some of my friends do research with mice, and I asked once if they were ever tempted to take one home as a pet. Apparently, doing that would get you in pretty serious trouble, including potentially having your lab's permission to work with live animals pulled. You aren't allowed to find them homes even if the animals pose no threat (no special disease potential, etc).
 
2013-10-10 06:35:34 PM  

IC Stars: Fubini: J. Frank Parnell: As long as you are a robot with zero empathy for living things that makes perfect sense.

It's better just to euthanize the whole lot?

You realize that cats don't have feelings, right?

Now you are going to have to define what you mean by feelings.

Pain, hunger, etc -- cats certainly do.


Cats are not sentient beings.
Cats are soulless husks, covered with fur.
 
2013-10-10 09:17:17 PM  
If people only knew how medical breakthroughs are developed for the sake of our health and well-being...

There are things that we have to do to survive and discover things about the world. We ear other living creatures, both the cute ones and the scary ones, in order to live. We use other living creatures to experiment on so that we don't end up hurting other humans with ineffective medication and treatments. Experimenting on animals before humans is currently a necessity, unless some genius figures out a way where no risk to another creature's life is involved.
 
2013-10-10 10:17:24 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: In terms of horrific animal experiments, this is about a 1 of 10.


Don't get me started on that Schrodinger bastard...
 
2013-10-11 12:21:52 AM  
*cough cough* Harry Harlow *cough cough*

Amazingly, people didn't assume before Harlow's tests on monkeys that kids who didn't get physical contact with parental figures would turn out emotionally maladjusted.
 
2013-10-11 12:39:42 AM  

Mitrovarr: The experiment has a somewhat happy ending. The Immobile Kittens were placed in lighted rooms for about forty-eight hours and allowed to explore freely. They were retested and had learned to understand visual cliffs. So even if deprived of stimulus, the brain can still learn. Still, the Immobile Kittens never became visually normal. Their time in the dark, and without the ability to work with the world around them, left a permanent mark on them.

Not that it probably matters. Nearly all animal research ends with euthanasia and (usually) dissection. Hard to justify not doing it in this case, since you'd want to see if there were any morphological differences in the visual areas of the brain. However, in any case, most ethics boards will require euthanasia at the end of an experiment. Some of my friends do research with mice, and I asked once if they were ever tempted to take one home as a pet. Apparently, doing that would get you in pretty serious trouble, including potentially having your lab's permission to work with live animals pulled. You aren't allowed to find them homes even if the animals pose no threat (no special disease potential, etc).


Not always. Knew a couple of girls that adopted some genetically altered mice post experiment. Also have heard of them pawning off mice for snake food, which I probably counts as euthanasia. Course my university liked pigeons, which kinda explained the abundance chicken nuggets they had for lunch
 
2013-10-11 05:23:27 AM  

Ambitwistor: talkertopc: The kitten even fully recovered at the end.

"Still, the Immobile Kittens never became visually normal. Their time in the dark, and without the ability to work with the world around them, left a permanent mark on them."


...er... that was a bit vague. It sounds like a totally subjective comment by someone who thinks "well if that happened to me I'd be psychologically damage permanently, so I bet these cats are". It's not like they went on to describe exactly how this supposed "permanent mark" that was left on them actually manifested itself.
 
2013-10-11 05:35:03 AM  

Russ1642: Yogimus: It's a cat. 15 bucks gets you one on any corner in breeding season.

I once visited the lab of a guy doing robotics research for spinal chord victims. They would cut cats open and implant chips in their spinal columns and wouldn't fully close them up but used binder clips instead. He built the robotic arms that would move the cat's legs while they measured the nervous feedback. He said that they lost a few cats simply because they weren't exactly surgeons and were kind of just winging that portion of their research. But they were on the leading edge of their field and are helping many people have a way better quality of life.


That is some real sick bastard stuff.

Unnecessary cruelty is just that, unnecessary. They could get the results they were after without being cruel about it.

If you aren't able to do surgery in a professional manner, including with proper wound closing and pain relief, then leave it for some other team of researchers who can. They are just torturing animals when the option is there to not torture them, and then trying to claim it's fine because it might make some people's quality of life better. Fark that. I really do hope these guys need surgery on themselves one day and find that the anaesthesia doesn't work halfway through the operation, but they are immobilised and so can't let anyone know.
 
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