If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(The Oatmeal)   "(Christopher Columbus) discovered the New World much like a meteorite discovered the dinosaurs"   (theoatmeal.com) divider line 117
    More: Misc, dinosaurs, Meteorite, Howard Zinn, primary sources, Christopher Columbus  
•       •       •

4188 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Oct 2013 at 11:12 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



117 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-10-10 07:04:08 PM  
"(Christopher Columbus) discovered the New World much like a meteorite discovered the dinosaurs"

Because both landed in the Caribbean without a clue of where they actually were?
 
2013-10-10 08:00:03 PM  
Firstly, re-establishing contact between Europe and the Americas that hadn't happened in 500 years, using new and at the time somewhat uncertain deep-ocean navigational techniques when humanity had previously more or less needed to stay in sight of shore or be completely bloody insane or lucky to use ocean travel, is a reasonably impressive accomplishment that is more worthy of celebration than 99% of the stupid shiat we have holidays for.

This isn't to say that Columbus wasn't  hilariously inept, but c'mon, the accomplishment was still pretty significant.  If anything, the fact that he was inept and more a con man trying to fleece some governments than a legit explorer makes the story better.

Secondly, "Hurr, durr, there were already people there" isn't a counter-argument for him discovering the place, it's just you saying that you don't quite understand basic context.  Columbus didn't claim to discover the Americas for humanity, he discovered it for  Europe. The last contact that Europe had had with the continent was 500 years old, which is 'faded into myth' territory, and the last contact with mainland europe (remember the Vikings were xenophobic bastards that didn't share navigational charts or culture with basically anyone until they were basically forcibly Christianized, and at that point most of their history was lost for a while) was more like 1500 years old.

Thirdly, are we really holding the Europeans morally responsible for the plague years?  You realize that they went through the same thing a century earlier, right?  If they had the slightest farking clue how diseases worked, the first thing they'd have done with it was fix their own horrible waves of death, not tossed it at random newbies.  From the European perspective in the 1400s, plagues just happened sometimes, like the weather but even more crazy and random.  They'd even more or less given up trying to make sense of it with  religion by that point, is how much they'd thrown in the towel on figuring that one out.
 
2013-10-10 08:07:40 PM  
Does no other state celebrate Native American day, besides mine (SD)?
 
2013-10-10 08:23:54 PM  
Anyone who takes Howard Zinn seriously is not to be taken seriously.
 
2013-10-10 09:24:35 PM  

rocky_howard: was a rather decent guy


The same guy who linked to sell nine and ten year old girls into sexual slavery?  That guy?
 
2013-10-10 09:25:20 PM  
liked, not linked.

FTFM
 
2013-10-10 09:31:35 PM  
"A hundred castellanoes (a Spanish coin) are as easily obtained for a woman as for a farm, and it is very general and there are plenty of dealers who go about looking for girls; those from nine to ten (years old) are now in demand."  -C. Columbus
 
2013-10-10 10:38:01 PM  

Thurston Howell: I'm still waiting for The Oatmeal to discover the principles of depth and structure when drawing the human form.


Wow... you sure told that CARTOONIST.
 
2013-10-10 11:11:59 PM  
www.biography.com

No mention of Cabeza de Vaca in the thread? For shame - one of the better stories of the exploration of the Americas in the 1500s. He was one of four survivors (one being a Moor slave) of a 600-man Florida expedition that shipwrecked around Galveston, who hiked their way across Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and down the Gulf of California, all while going from explorer to captive slave and then a traveling shaman. And despite seeing cruelty in his years amongst the tribes, when his band made its way back to Mexico City and returned to Spain, he wrote in his memoirs that Native Americans deserved better treatment from the Europeans. Not a popular view then, of course.

/Isabella of Spain also told Columbus he was farked up for enslaving the Indians. Fancy that, from the woman encouraging Torquemada's Spanish Inquisition.
 
2013-10-10 11:42:46 PM  
Practical_Draconian:
/Isabella of Spain also told Columbus he was farked up for enslaving the Indians. Fancy that, from the woman encouraging Torquemada's Spanish Inquisition.

Exactly! That's what I'm saying, you can't just simply cherry pick something from history and judge it by modern standards...

Especially since in the future, they'll look back at us and say "Jeez, those guys sure were farked up".

Moral values change over time and it's already problematic enough that each person has their own morals, but also including historical figures from hundreds of years ago? -_-'

Hitler's mistake, besides wanting to eliminate all the juice and other groceries, was doing it in an era were such thing was frowned upon, but in history there have been worse genocides than that. At least in terms of victims, cause the main ugliness from Holocaust was how systematic and intentional it was. It gives me the heebie jeebies just to think about it.
 
2013-10-11 12:05:51 AM  

give me doughnuts: Edison was a patent thief whose main talent was self-promotion. His contributions to human advancement are paltry when compared to Tesla.
As far as douche-baginess goes, how do you rate electrocuting a bunch of animals including a old circus elephant?


Frak that... he promoted the electric chair as a publicity stunt (invented by one of his employees, of course).  Edison was battling Tesla's AC as being more lethal, so they used AC as the source.  Because they didn't know what the hell they were doing (like that critical water-soaked sponge on the head), the result was horrific.

From Wikipedia:  Blood vessels under the skin ruptured and bled, and the areas around the electrodes singed. The entire execution took about eight minutes. George Westinghouse later commented that "they would have done better using an axe," and a witnessing reporter claimed that it was "an awful spectacle, far worse than hanging."

/Dark Matters is awesome, btw
 
2013-10-11 02:26:22 AM  

Thurston Howell: I'm still waiting for The Oatmeal to discover the principles of depth and structure when drawing the human form.

[media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com image 236x317]


Yeah, that'll happen, just as soon as Randall Munroe starts drawing people as more than just stick figures.
 
2013-10-11 03:19:52 AM  

rocky_howard: Gee. I wonder what happens when you send the antisocial garbage of your society to another.


Australia.

Just saying.
 
2013-10-11 03:49:35 AM  

rocky_howard: Hitler's mistake, besides wanting to eliminate all the juice and other groceries, was doing it in an era were such thing was frowned upon, but in history there have been worse genocides than that.


Really?  Like what?  Even Wikipedia lists the Shoah at the top of its genocide list.  Virtually nothing comes close.  The list might be incomplete, but I would think that if you managed to pull of a genocide of that many millions of people, it would be pretty famous.
 
2013-10-11 07:48:03 AM  
I intend to celebrate Columbus Day the same way I celebrate every bloated American holiday that flies in the face of historical accuracy: with a hangover.
 
2013-10-11 01:13:19 PM  

rocky_howard: HeartBurnKid: I knew Columbus was a fool and an asshole, and treated the indigenous peoples like dirt, but I honestly didn't know that he was involved in the Transatlantic slave trade or underage sex slavery. And I had no idea who Bartolomé was until I read that.  So yeah, some of it was new to me.

He wasn't... That's probably why it was new to you. It's a lie, or at best, a misguided inference. And the underage sex slavery is just assassination of character. Looking back at history with modern time goggles is a bad idea.  Back in the day people had sex at a younger age. Sure, it's wrong by our standards, but you better focus on actual current 9 and 10 year old girls getting married to older men in Muslim countries than raging at Columbus partaking in the pleasures of his day.


Just curious.  Do you know Rush Limbaugh personally ?
 
2013-10-11 06:01:41 PM  

austerity101: rocky_howard: Hitler's mistake, besides wanting to eliminate all the juice and other groceries, was doing it in an era were such thing was frowned upon, but in history there have been worse genocides than that.

Really?  Like what?  Even Wikipedia lists the Shoah at the top of its genocide list.  Virtually nothing comes close.  The list might be incomplete, but I would think that if you managed to pull of a genocide of that many millions of people, it would be pretty famous.


Rocky_Howard might be referring to relative to total population available to be killed. Six million Jews out of the many millions in Europe at the time was horrible, but while, say, Pol Pot "only" killed about a third that many Cambodians, there were far fewer available to be killed, so per capita>, he tops Hitler: he killed about ¼ of the entire population of his nation.
 
Displayed 17 of 117 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report