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(Forbes)   How GoDaddy helped keep Lavabit e-mail out of FBI hands. With bonus epic trolling of the FBI by Lavabit's founder   (forbes.com) divider line 46
    More: Followup, FBI, godaddy, Lavabit, Ahold, legal defense, encryption, trolls, private keys  
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4479 clicks; posted to Geek » on 10 Oct 2013 at 9:18 AM (39 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



46 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-10-10 09:29:45 AM
Self-signed or might-as-well-be-unsigned.  End of story.
 
2013-10-10 09:30:30 AM
FBI: Give us your encryption keys.
Secure email provider: No.
Court: Give them your encryption keys.
Secure email provider: Fine.
GoDaddy: This site has been compromised, and its security certificate revoked.

Hah!
 
2013-10-10 09:32:00 AM
"[W]e're compelled by industry policies to revoke certs when we become aware that the private key has been communicated to a 3rd-party and thus could be used by that party to intercept and decrypt communications," says GoDaddy spokesperson Elizabeth L. Driscoll.

In other words, the certs were revoked by GoDaddy because the keys were compromised - by the FBI.  GoDaddy was not under court order to let the FBI spy, so they treated it as any other security compromise.

Wow.  Almost makes me want to pat GoDaddy on the back.
 
2013-10-10 09:35:23 AM

SansNeural: "[W]e're compelled by industry policies to revoke certs when we become aware that the private key has been communicated to a 3rd-party and thus could be used by that party to intercept and decrypt communications," says GoDaddy spokesperson Elizabeth L. Driscoll.

In other words, the certs were revoked by GoDaddy because the keys were compromised - by the FBI.  GoDaddy was not under court order to let the FBI spy, so they treated it as any other security compromise.

Wow.  Almost makes me want to pat GoDaddy on the back.


It's more than that. Godaddy, in my opinion, would face litigation were they to continue certifying the SSL certificate.
 
2013-10-10 09:35:30 AM

ikanreed: Self-signed or might-as-well-be-unsigned.  End of story.


Good point.  Certs revoked or not, the keys are still compromised.  But that's why Lavabit shut it all down.
 
2013-10-10 09:35:49 AM

SansNeural: Wow. Almost makes me want to pat GoDaddy on the back.


This...
 
2013-10-10 09:36:58 AM
I haven't met a single intelligent person who thinks the .gov is right in this situation.
 
2013-10-10 09:43:23 AM
I heard his interview on NPR the other day. He said that he had to shut the site with no warning to the users because other services that told the feds they would do the same were court order to keep running the business. I have to wonder which ones.
 
2013-10-10 09:44:57 AM

LiberalWeenie: FBI: Give us your encryption keys.
Secure email provider: No.
Court: Give them your encryption keys.
Secure email provider: Fine.
GoDaddy: This site has been compromised, and its security certificate revoked.

Hah!


Don't forget the "Here's my encryption keys--printed out on 11 pages in a tiny font that you can't OCR." That was kind of awesome all by itself.
 
2013-10-10 09:48:42 AM

duffblue: I haven't met a single intelligent person who thinks the .gov is right in this situation.


They aren't, but I don't know what else they could do.

But that makes this no less hilarious. I may register a domain with GoDaddy tonight to say "good job".
 
2013-10-10 09:50:27 AM
OK, now a double columnar transposition, with the keys FLINTLOCK and AIRPLANES:

MSG NR 20 CK 87 1010 1346 BT
SOLOK KOHXX OTOXO OXVOX NYGHR  ATAYN XXIAY RXEWX URXHD UROEN
ITSTX RTEBW ATYUC NOROX OEFTX  UIDVX UXNFX TH
AR K


Remember that because this is a case where the message length isn't an exact multiple of the keywords, you'll have to account for the four "empty spaces" at the bottom*

*Message length is 87, and 87/9 = 9 with a remainder of 5, and 9 - 5 = 4 empty spaces
 
2013-10-10 09:54:09 AM

Cybernetic: LiberalWeenie: FBI: Give us your encryption keys.
Secure email provider: No.
Court: Give them your encryption keys.
Secure email provider: Fine.
GoDaddy: This site has been compromised, and its security certificate revoked.

Hah!

Don't forget the "Here's my encryption keys--printed out on 11 pages in a tiny font that you can't OCR." That was kind of awesome all by itself.


I wonder how the court order was written.  If it did not specifically state digital copies, I think the contempt charges is unneeded.
 
2013-10-10 09:55:11 AM

Gonz: They aren't, but I don't know what else they could do.


The same thing they've done in other cases involving ISPs that get stuck in the middle of criminal investigations. Get a court order and compel the company to turn over the relevant communications. It's a common thing. ISPs have a process in place to review and respond to legitimate requests for customer data from law enforcement.That the Lavabit founder would have to take one extra step because of the encryption doesn't change the fundamental process of discovery.

There's absolutely no reason they had to compromise the security of the entire system and all of its users and then sift through everybody's data, they just chose to because it's legal now.
 
2013-10-10 09:57:57 AM

HotWingConspiracy: I heard his interview on NPR the other day. He said that he had to shut the site with no warning to the users because other services that told the feds they would do the same were court order to keep running the business. I have to wonder which ones.


The safe assumption is to just assume that it's all of them, and act accordingly.
 
2013-10-10 10:08:16 AM

HotWingConspiracy: I heard his interview on NPR the other day. He said that he had to shut the site with no warning to the users because other services that told the feds they would do the same were court order to keep running the business. I have to wonder which ones.


I guess I shouldn't be all that surprised that they can force people to keep their private business running so they can spy on people. I don't think that shiat would fly in Canada though.
 
2013-10-10 10:10:51 AM

Lego_Addict: HotWingConspiracy: I heard his interview on NPR the other day. He said that he had to shut the site with no warning to the users because other services that told the feds they would do the same were court order to keep running the business. I have to wonder which ones.

I guess I shouldn't be all that surprised that they can force people to keep their private business running so they can spy on people. I don't think that shiat would fly in Canada though.


Could be that Canada just hides it better. Never know when it comes to gov work. My rule is: if your in politics, you can not be trusted at all. Good or bad, politics is the worlds dirtiest business.
 
2013-10-10 10:12:11 AM

dittybopper: HotWingConspiracy: I heard his interview on NPR the other day. He said that he had to shut the site with no warning to the users because other services that told the feds they would do the same were court order to keep running the business. I have to wonder which ones.

The safe assumption is to just assume that it's all of them, and act accordingly.


The problem is knowing what 'accordingly' is - at least, that's a problem for those of us who are motivated but not trained crypto geeks.  And, once we've figured that out, getting the other people in our social circles to do the same.  I can't even get my wife to use a secure text app - because she'd have to enter a password on a phone reboot.
 
2013-10-10 10:16:33 AM

yves0010: Lego_Addict: HotWingConspiracy: I heard his interview on NPR the other day. He said that he had to shut the site with no warning to the users because other services that told the feds they would do the same were court order to keep running the business. I have to wonder which ones.

I guess I shouldn't be all that surprised that they can force people to keep their private business running so they can spy on people. I don't think that shiat would fly in Canada though.

Could be that Canada just hides it better. Never know when it comes to gov work. My rule is: if your in politics, you can not be trusted at all. Good or bad, politics is the worlds dirtiest business.


I don't doubt that Canada spies on it's citizens. You could be right though, Canada's government has become less and less transparent over the years.
 
2013-10-10 10:19:31 AM

ChubbyTiger: dittybopper: HotWingConspiracy: I heard his interview on NPR the other day. He said that he had to shut the site with no warning to the users because other services that told the feds they would do the same were court order to keep running the business. I have to wonder which ones.

The safe assumption is to just assume that it's all of them, and act accordingly.

The problem is knowing what 'accordingly' is - at least, that's a problem for those of us who are motivated but not trained crypto geeks.  And, once we've figured that out, getting the other people in our social circles to do the same.  I can't even get my wife to use a secure text app - because she'd have to enter a password on a phone reboot.


To be fair, what information is she texting that you're worried about being intercepted? Unless your're constantly texting your SSN or CC numbers (which I would love to know why if you were), most people can't do much with "i miss you too" texts and penis pictures. I know if you sample enough data you'll get something useful, but that's just natural selection in action.
 
2013-10-10 10:32:05 AM

MadMattressMack: ChubbyTiger: dittybopper: HotWingConspiracy: I heard his interview on NPR the other day. He said that he had to shut the site with no warning to the users because other services that told the feds they would do the same were court order to keep running the business. I have to wonder which ones.

The safe assumption is to just assume that it's all of them, and act accordingly.

The problem is knowing what 'accordingly' is - at least, that's a problem for those of us who are motivated but not trained crypto geeks.  And, once we've figured that out, getting the other people in our social circles to do the same.  I can't even get my wife to use a secure text app - because she'd have to enter a password on a phone reboot.

To be fair, what information is she texting that you're worried about being intercepted? Unless your're constantly texting your SSN or CC numbers (which I would love to know why if you were), most people can't do much with "i miss you too" texts and penis pictures. I know if you sample enough data you'll get something useful, but that's just natural selection in action.


Oh, nothing at all.  Unless you care that I'm going to Trader Joe's for milk later, my texts are totally uninteresting.  But that isn't really the point, is it?  For the sake of argument, let's say that I did need to text my SSN to her.  I can't, becuase she won't use any encryption, which means that anyone intercepting the text now has it.  Or, she consents to using a secure text app for that one text.  Now, if anyone were intercepting my texts, they know very clearly that this one text is important and could, in theory, work to decrypt it.  Does the NSA* care about my milk run?  No.  Do I do anything that they do care about?  No.  But the only way to keep their grubby paws off of our collective data is for many people to try to encrypt as much communication as possible.  The better the encryption, the harder it is for them to identify important messages, let alone decrypt them.  It's not just about me, it's about the Snowdens and the Tibetan human rights people and Doctors Without Borders.

*insert your favorite TLA or criminal group here
 
2013-10-10 10:33:05 AM
www.gravatar.com

Bonus pic of cutie journalist.
 
2013-10-10 10:38:51 AM

stuhayes2010: [www.gravatar.com image 136x136]

Bonus pic of cutie journalist.


토끼
 
2013-10-10 10:48:08 AM

ChubbyTiger: dittybopper: HotWingConspiracy: I heard his interview on NPR the other day. He said that he had to shut the site with no warning to the users because other services that told the feds they would do the same were court order to keep running the business. I have to wonder which ones.

The safe assumption is to just assume that it's all of them, and act accordingly.

The problem is knowing what 'accordingly' is - at least, that's a problem for those of us who are motivated but not trained crypto geeks.  And, once we've figured that out, getting the other people in our social circles to do the same.  I can't even get my wife to use a secure text app - because she'd have to enter a password on a phone reboot.


I'm actually not a "trained" crypto geek.  At least, not formally trained in any way on the subject.  I learned on my own, and it's my mission to spread the knowledge that you don't *HAVE* to use a computer to encrypt to others.  It's not hard to do, it just takes a little bit of time, and even some relatively simple and somewhat "insecure" methods can be secure enough for small amounts of traffic.

If I wanted to communicate something embarrassing or very private to a relative or friend who lives on the other side of the country, and I didn't want anyone but us two to know what it was, then I would almost certainly manually encrypt it and then send it via conventional means (e-mail, text, snail mail, whatever).

Hell, if I were in a frisky mood, I might send it via postcard, just to fark with the postal service.

The one big advantage that they have is that you remain in control over the plaintext, so non-cryptanalytical attacks won't work.
 
2013-10-10 10:50:40 AM

SansNeural: stuhayes2010: [www.gravatar.com image 136x136]

Bonus pic of cutie journalist.

토끼


오리
 
2013-10-10 10:53:20 AM

HotWingConspiracy: I heard his interview on NPR the other day. He said that he had to shut the site with no warning to the users because other services that told the feds they would do the same were court order to keep running the business. I have to wonder which ones.


How is that even close to constitutional?  Never mind the first or fourth amendments... hell it violates the 13th amendment.
 
2013-10-10 11:00:13 AM

ChubbyTiger: Do I do anything that they do care about?  No.


You might not, but do your friends?  What about the friends of your friends?  Or the friends of your friend's friends?   That's how deep the NSA can look.  Let's say that everyone knows 100 people.  So you have 100 friends, and they have, collectively, 10,000 friends, and they all have, collectively 1,000,000 friends.  There would be quite a bit of overlap there, of course, but even if you cut that number in half, what if you come under suspicion because one of the over 500,000 people is a potential terrorist?

Because of social network analysis, even though you may not think they would be interested in you, they very well may be.
 
2013-10-10 11:14:52 AM

Lego_Addict: yves0010: Lego_Addict: HotWingConspiracy: I heard his interview on NPR the other day. He said that he had to shut the site with no warning to the users because other services that told the feds they would do the same were court order to keep running the business. I have to wonder which ones.

I guess I shouldn't be all that surprised that they can force people to keep their private business running so they can spy on people. I don't think that shiat would fly in Canada though.

Could be that Canada just hides it better. Never know when it comes to gov work. My rule is: if your in politics, you can not be trusted at all. Good or bad, politics is the worlds dirtiest business.

I don't doubt that Canada spies on it's citizens. You could be right though, Canada's government has become less and less transparent over the years.


I am not Canadian so I do not know its inner working. But that is just my rule of thumb in the political world, Don't trust a politician no matter what. Reagan left a nice statement I like to say once in a blue moon: "The scariest thing you'll hear is 'I'm from the government and I am here to help.'" No truer words spoken.
 
2013-10-10 11:28:47 AM

dittybopper: 오리


Labbit!
 
2013-10-10 11:44:24 AM

dittybopper: ChubbyTiger: Do I do anything that they do care about?  No.

You might not, but do your friends?  What about the friends of your friends?  Or the friends of your friend's friends?   That's how deep the NSA can look.  Let's say that everyone knows 100 people.  So you have 100 friends, and they have, collectively, 10,000 friends, and they all have, collectively 1,000,000 friends.  There would be quite a bit of overlap there, of course, but even if you cut that number in half, what if you come under suspicion because one of the over 500,000 people is a potential terrorist?

Because of social network analysis, even though you may not think they would be interested in you, they very well may be.


Good point.  I just meant that, even if I'm usually uninteresting, I'm not always uninteresting and that our using encryption makes it harder for willy-nilly interception of people who might be interesting for the wrong reasons (like the Tibetan activists I used in my example).  The "three steps" thing just makes it even more relevant.  But more people need to understand that the "I'm boring" excuse isn't a good one.
 
2013-10-10 12:10:35 PM

ChubbyTiger: dittybopper: ChubbyTiger: Do I do anything that they do care about?  No.

You might not, but do your friends?  What about the friends of your friends?  Or the friends of your friend's friends?   That's how deep the NSA can look.  Let's say that everyone knows 100 people.  So you have 100 friends, and they have, collectively, 10,000 friends, and they all have, collectively 1,000,000 friends.  There would be quite a bit of overlap there, of course, but even if you cut that number in half, what if you come under suspicion because one of the over 500,000 people is a potential terrorist?

Because of social network analysis, even though you may not think they would be interested in you, they very well may be.

Good point.  I just meant that, even if I'm usually uninteresting, I'm not always uninteresting and that our using encryption makes it harder for willy-nilly interception of people who might be interesting for the wrong reasons (like the Tibetan activists I used in my example).  The "three steps" thing just makes it even more relevant.  But more people need to understand that the "I'm boring" excuse isn't a good one.


One other thing to consider:  If everyone is just 3 steps away from half a million people, in theory, it would only take 600 potential terrorists being monitored for the nearly the entire nation to come under suspicion.
 
2013-10-10 01:23:00 PM

dittybopper: OK, now a double columnar transposition, with the keys FLINTLOCK and AIRPLANES:

MSG NR 20 CK 87 1010 1346 BT
SOLOK KOHXX OTOXO OXVOX NYGHR  ATAYN XXIAY RXEWX URXHD UROEN
ITSTX RTEBW ATYUC NOROX OEFTX  UIDVX UXNFX TH
AR K

Remember that because this is a case where the message length isn't an exact multiple of the keywords, you'll have to account for the four "empty spaces" at the bottom*

*Message length is 87, and 87/9 = 9 with a remainder of 5, and 9 - 5 = 4 empty spaces


Alright, this is starting to bother me... I tried decrypting it, first with AIRPLANES then FLINTLOCK, then FLINTLOCK then AIRPLANES, but both ways I get gibberish (although A then F provides some recognizable words)... either I'm doing something wrong (it's been a few years, very likely), or the cipher was wrong (my confidence in you isn't 100%, as you stated there are 4 empty spaces, however with a 9x10 grid and 87 letters, that leaves 3 empty spaces, not 4 (87/9 has a remainder of 6, not 5)... any tips? :)
 
2013-10-10 01:58:45 PM

Zaltec: dittybopper: OK, now a double columnar transposition, with the keys FLINTLOCK and AIRPLANES:

MSG NR 20 CK 87 1010 1346 BT
SOLOK KOHXX OTOXO OXVOX NYGHR  ATAYN XXIAY RXEWX URXHD UROEN
ITSTX RTEBW ATYUC NOROX OEFTX  UIDVX UXNFX TH
AR K

Remember that because this is a case where the message length isn't an exact multiple of the keywords, you'll have to account for the four "empty spaces" at the bottom*

*Message length is 87, and 87/9 = 9 with a remainder of 5, and 9 - 5 = 4 empty spaces

Alright, this is starting to bother me... I tried decrypting it, first with AIRPLANES then FLINTLOCK, then FLINTLOCK then AIRPLANES, but both ways I get gibberish (although A then F provides some recognizable words)... either I'm doing something wrong (it's been a few years, very likely), or the cipher was wrong (my confidence in you isn't 100%, as you stated there are 4 empty spaces, however with a 9x10 grid and 87 letters, that leaves 3 empty spaces, not 4 (87/9 has a remainder of 6, not 5)... any tips? :)


Heh.  I somehow threw in an extra K, but I was doing it by cutting and pasting, not on paper, so that's my excuse.  The letter count should be 86, which of course works out because 86/9 = 9 r 5.

The proper ciphertext should look like this:

SOLOK OHXXO TOXOO XVOXN YGHRA  TAYNX XIAYR XEWXU RXHDU ROENI 
TSTXR TEBWA TYUCN OROXO EFTXU  IDVXU XNFXT H
 

/A perfect example of how computers will screw you up.
 
2013-10-10 02:02:00 PM
NANOG just hosted a Q&A with him yesterday. It's pretty fascinating.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo9-0So2A_g&list=PLO8DR5ZGla8j7_jnNYY 3d 8JB0HfdXe85X

There's also a presentation on the channel from Monday titled "Through a PRISM, darkly" where Mark Rumold from EFF go through a presentation on the PRISM program.
 
2013-10-10 02:14:24 PM
dittybopper:
The proper ciphertext should look like this:

SOLOK OHXXO TOXOO XVOXN YGHRA  TAYNX XIAYR XEWXU RXHDU ROENI
TSTXR TEBWA TYUCN OROXO EFTXU  IDVXU XNFXT H


a crummy commercial?! son of a biatch!
 
2013-10-10 03:42:51 PM

EfiniX: NANOG just hosted a Q&A with him yesterday. It's pretty fascinating.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo9-0So2A_g&list=PLO8DR5ZGla8j7_jnNYY 3d 8JB0HfdXe85X

There's also a presentation on the channel from Monday titled "Through a PRISM, darkly" where Mark Rumold from EFF go through a presentation on the PRISM program.


He's a douche.  It's impossible to provide a 'secure email system' that he advertised.  He claims in the NYT that he was decrypting and sending the Feds data manually.
But in reality, he received a legitimate court order to hand over MetaData (log data) for a single account.  He refused.  Only after screwing with the Feds did they request the SSL keys so they could get the info they needed. He sent them the keys in a printout, they demanded 'full access', and he shut down.
He's an ass.  He doesn't 'represent privacy' - his service never once provided the privacy he claims he's standing up for.
If anything, he communicated with Snowden (because that dumbass decided that an email account named 'ed­s­nowd­en[nospam-﹫-backwards]tib­av­al­*net' would be perfect for potentially treasonous activity) and is just hiding his involvement.

Read everything, in date order - not in the order the articles like to present it - here:
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/801182-redacted-pleadings-ex hi bits-1-23.html

Yeah, the douche likes to drop the whole "I ignored a court order for snowden's metadata", and goes direct to "They forced me to give them SSL keys!"
 
2013-10-10 03:55:09 PM

ikanreed: Self-signed or might-as-well-be-unsigned.  End of story.


You are beyond stupid.
 
2013-10-10 05:03:51 PM

yves0010: Reagan left a nice statement I like to say once in a blue moon: "The scariest thing you'll hear is 'I'm from the government and I am here to help.'" No truer words spoken.


OK, I'm certainly not defending the FBI here, because they are wrong, wrong, wrong, WRONG in this situation.  But that glib little phrase of Reagan's has been responsible for about 33 years of pain, dysfunction, and general stupidity in this country, and I'll thank you not to keep parroting it.  Believe it or not, there are some things that the government can and should do to improve the lives of the citizenry.
 
2013-10-10 05:57:07 PM

HeartBurnKid: yves0010: Reagan left a nice statement I like to say once in a blue moon: "The scariest thing you'll hear is 'I'm from the government and I am here to help.'" No truer words spoken.

OK, I'm certainly not defending the FBI here, because they are wrong, wrong, wrong, WRONG in this situation.  But that glib little phrase of Reagan's has been responsible for about 33 years of pain, dysfunction, and general stupidity in this country, and I'll thank you not to keep parroting it.  Believe it or not, there are some things that the government can and should do to improve the lives of the citizenry.


So you're saying we should trust, but verify, the government?
 
2013-10-10 07:02:52 PM

dittybopper: HeartBurnKid: yves0010: Reagan left a nice statement I like to say once in a blue moon: "The scariest thing you'll hear is 'I'm from the government and I am here to help.'" No truer words spoken.

OK, I'm certainly not defending the FBI here, because they are wrong, wrong, wrong, WRONG in this situation.  But that glib little phrase of Reagan's has been responsible for about 33 years of pain, dysfunction, and general stupidity in this country, and I'll thank you not to keep parroting it.  Believe it or not, there are some things that the government can and should do to improve the lives of the citizenry.

So you're saying we should trust, but verify, the government?


Absolutely.  Neither blindly trust them, nor blindly reject them.  Trust, but verify.
 
2013-10-10 07:42:42 PM
BURN ON YOU, FBI.....

So when you gonna stop Counterintelligence stalking?
 
2013-10-10 10:14:36 PM

HeartBurnKid:  Believe it or not, there are some things that the government can and should do to improve the lives of the citizenry.


If you mean stop taxing the fark out of me for stupid shiat, getting the fark out of my life, stop spending money like you're NOT printing 85 billion more EVERY MONTH, actually follow the farking constitution?  Then yes, I agree with you.
 
2013-10-10 11:27:32 PM

The6502Man: HeartBurnKid:  Believe it or not, there are some things that the government can and should do to improve the lives of the citizenry.

If you mean stop taxing the fark out of me for stupid shiat, getting the fark out of my life, stop spending money like you're NOT printing 85 billion more EVERY MONTH, actually follow the farking constitution?  Then yes, I agree with you.


I was thinking more along the lines of build roads, enforce food safety standards, make sure people get a living wage for an honest day's work... you know, that sort of thing.  I know, I'm such a communist.
 
2013-10-11 01:13:28 AM

EfiniX: NANOG just hosted a Q&A with him yesterday. It's pretty fascinating.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo9-0So2A_g&list=PLO8DR5ZGla8j7_jnNYY 3d 8JB0HfdXe85X

There's also a presentation on the channel from Monday titled "Through a PRISM, darkly" where Mark Rumold from EFF go through a presentation on the PRISM program.


Were you there? Was pretty awesome to see in person - that was apparently the first interview he'd done since the gag order was lifted.
 
2013-10-11 01:16:59 AM

HeartBurnKid: I know, I'm such a communist.


I'd rather deal with an honest commie than this dysfunctional pseudosocialist clusterfark that went into full retard after 9/11.

The entire farking country knee-jerked then, and started the latest wave of rights nullification.  We let the government silently kill off our rights in the name of security, and in doing so we  let the terrorists win.  They wanted to take away our freedom, and that's just what we did.  And the nation cheered over it.

England had it right in their "Keep Calm and Carry On" slogan.  If we had just tended to the damage, mourned the dead, and moved on like it never happened, it would have been the biggest dickswinging f-you we could have given Bin Laden and his false-jihadist friends.
 
2013-10-11 09:04:01 AM

HeartBurnKid: yves0010: Reagan left a nice statement I like to say once in a blue moon: "The scariest thing you'll hear is 'I'm from the government and I am here to help.'" No truer words spoken.

OK, I'm certainly not defending the FBI here, because they are wrong, wrong, wrong, WRONG in this situation.  But that glib little phrase of Reagan's has been responsible for about 33 years of pain, dysfunction, and general stupidity in this country, and I'll thank you not to keep parroting it.  Believe it or not, there are some things that the government can and should do to improve the lives of the citizenry.


But when you have a government that feels it is more important to spy on its own citizens and force unconstitutional laws and / or rulings on them. A government that is corrupt to the core. Would you like to trust them in anything. Sorry, with my little experiences in this world, still a young man, I will never trust any government official. The only good I see coming out of government is the R&D stuff, I.E. Military R&D and NASA R&D. But the actual lawmakers and leaders of the government, nope. Especially when they ignore the peoples will and do as they please. Heck, I would extend it to police and other government employs at the state, county and city level.
 
2013-10-11 09:46:30 AM

Saberus Terras: HeartBurnKid: I know, I'm such a communist.

I'd rather deal with an honest commie than this dysfunctional pseudosocialist clusterfark that went into full retard after 9/11.

The entire farking country knee-jerked then, and started the latest wave of rights nullification.  We let the government silently kill off our rights in the name of security, and in doing so we  let the terrorists win.  They wanted to take away our freedom, and that's just what we did.  And the nation cheered over it.

England had it right in their "Keep Calm and Carry On" slogan.  If we had just tended to the damage, mourned the dead, and moved on like it never happened, it would have been the biggest dickswinging f-you we could have given Bin Laden and his false-jihadist friends.


Now that, I agree with.
 
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