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(CNBC)   Congratulation on purchasing your new home. We'll be drilling for oil under your property tomorrow. kthnxbye   (cnbc.com) divider line 100
    More: Scary, University of Colorado Denver, county records, horizontal drilling, private sector, XTO Energy, mineral rights, buyer beware  
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11659 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Oct 2013 at 5:10 AM (41 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-09 11:09:03 PM
Well, welcome to the 1930's or earlier, depending on your state.
 
2013-10-09 11:17:06 PM
Here, if you have a milkshake, and I have a milkshake, and I have a straw. There it is, that's a straw, you see? You watching?. And my straw reaches acroooooooss the room, and starts to drink your milkshake... I... drink... your... milkshake!
 
2013-10-09 11:53:31 PM
A man will be by tomorrow to calmly explain the process of drainage.
 
2013-10-10 12:01:15 AM

austncorp: Well, welcome to the 1930's or earlier, depending on your state.


Wait... so you mean this doesn't happen?

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-10-10 12:37:57 AM
Just because they have mineral rights to your property doesn't mean zoning will permit them to build a well (or a mine) there.

If they can, they have to reimburse you for any loss of use of your property (for where the wellhead is, access roads, etc). But then you're stuck with the rest of the property, and good luck finding someone that wants to live next to a well.
 
2013-10-10 12:55:10 AM
D.R. Horton, the biggest U.S. homebuilder, is a heavy user of the practice. The Fort Worth, Texas, company...

No shiat.
 
2013-10-10 03:31:50 AM

Krieghund: Just because they have mineral rights to your property doesn't mean zoning will permit them to build a well (or a mine) there.

If they can, they have to reimburse you for any loss of use of your property (for where the wellhead is, access roads, etc). But then you're stuck with the rest of the property, and good luck finding someone that wants to live next to a well.


or polluted ground water
or polluted air or soil or anything

FFS GET OUT WHILE YOU CAN
 
2013-10-10 05:17:54 AM
images4.wikia.nocookie.net

oblig
 
2013-10-10 05:24:48 AM
FTA:  "But buyers don't necessarily review their paperwork very closely, especially if, as real-estate agents say happens often, they don't hire a lawyer to help them with the transaction."

Spend $500,000 on a house, won't spend $500 on a lawyer?

My sympathy meter, she is pegged...at zero.

Heck, title search isn't THAT complicated...it's basically just reading.
Do it yourself, if you're too cheap to hire someone.

/seriously, hire someone
//it's short money compared to your investment
 
2013-10-10 05:35:26 AM
FTFA: In North Carolina, a group of distraught homeowners contacted the state Attorney General's office last year after they discovered that they had signed away their mineral rights when they bought their homes - just as the state was about to open its doors to fracking. "Everybody started to panic, because we were part of the area where there was potentially going to be fracking," says Jay Mosesson, a homeowner in the Legend Oaks subdivision in Chapel Hill.

Who wants to bet that a lot of these guys were fans of "Drill Baby Drill" before this incident?
 
2013-10-10 05:39:23 AM
Any competent title insurance company should be able to find this. Hell, a semi-competent title insurance company should be able to find this. Mine did. Not only did they find it, but they helped the seller get the rights returned, since I had made it clear that to not do so was a deal breaker.
 
2013-10-10 05:40:25 AM
PunGent: FTA:  "But buyers don't necessarily review their paperwork very closely, especially if, as real-estate agents say happens often, they don't hire a lawyer to help them with the transaction."


^This.  My parents owned 370 acres.  When they wanted to move from the sticks into town because of mom's health, they went through the bank and found a buyer for that land.  However, the bank wanted all mineral rights included as part of the deal.  Dad said no deal.  The potential buyer got a lawyer, they got a lawyer and when it was all said and done, the deal was done, however my parents retained 9/16 of all mineral rights, took the money for the surface and bought 20 acres with a house and 100% mineral rights.

/my dad isn't a college educated man, but he has the sense to either read the contract or get an attorney to read it for him.
 
2013-10-10 05:44:58 AM

Krieghund: Just because they have mineral rights to your property doesn't mean zoning will permit them to build a well (or a mine) there.

If they can, they have to reimburse you for any loss of use of your property (for where the wellhead is, access roads, etc). But then you're stuck with the rest of the property, and good luck finding someone that wants to live next to a well.


And, apparently, being stuck paying higher property taxes for the valuable resources under your land that you don't own the rights to.
 
2013-10-10 05:49:24 AM

Lachwen: Krieghund: Just because they have mineral rights to your property doesn't mean zoning will permit them to build a well (or a mine) there.

If they can, they have to reimburse you for any loss of use of your property (for where the wellhead is, access roads, etc). But then you're stuck with the rest of the property, and good luck finding someone that wants to live next to a well.

And, apparently, being stuck paying higher property taxes for the valuable resources under your land that you don't own the rights to.


The tax thing is interesting, actually.  Most towns that I'm aware of tax residences based on what the assessor (usually a guy with a clipboard) can actually see...no idea how, or if, mineral rights are taxed.  They don't run complicated  assays to try to figure out what might be underneath...way too expensive.

Of course, I'm in Mass, maybe it's different in oil country?  Anybody?
 
2013-10-10 05:52:47 AM
Quick googling indicates the general rule is, mineral rights get taxed when you "produce" the minerals...so if they're just sitting there, probably no tax.

/obviously, consult a professional, not some random guy on the internet
 
2013-10-10 05:55:17 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Here, if you have a milkshake, and I have a milkshake, and I have a straw. There it is, that's a straw, you see? You watching?. And my straw reaches acroooooooss the room, and starts to drink your milkshake... I... drink... your... milkshake!


DRAAAAAAAAINAGE, Eli. I broke you and I beat you.
 
2013-10-10 05:57:11 AM

PunGent: FTA:  "But buyers don't necessarily review their paperwork very closely, especially if, as real-estate agents say happens often, they don't hire a lawyer to help them with the transaction."

Spend $500,000 on a house, won't spend $500 on a lawyer?

My sympathy meter, she is pegged...at zero.

Heck, title search isn't THAT complicated...it's basically just reading.
Do it yourself, if you're too cheap to hire someone.

/seriously, hire someone
//it's short money compared to your investment


These are the same people who try to sell their $500k+ homes themselves with a $3.00 Home For Sale sign or better, it is hand written on paper.

The best sign I ever saw was 20 years ago outside of a tidy bunagalow. All done in wood, maybe laser cut, but seeing elderly man push mowing, I guess it was hand done. It was a thing of beauty. It told me everything needed to know about the house and the owner.well taken care of.
 
2013-10-10 06:03:26 AM

austncorp: Well, welcome to the 1930's or earlier, depending on your state.


Around the same time they stripped us of our airspace rights. Something about the notion of having to pay a nation of little tollways to fly.
 
2013-10-10 06:09:59 AM
My mineral rights were held by the railroads that opened up the area. All registered back in in late 1800s, held by some trust named after the railroad, and disclosed upfront in the documents.

Read the damn thing - it's important
 
2013-10-10 06:13:05 AM
images.sodahead.com
 
2013-10-10 06:13:49 AM
Fracking?

i41.tinypic.com
 
2013-10-10 06:16:28 AM
And in more breaking news, new land purchasers in America's arid west are discovering, to their surprise and anger, that they can't take and use unlimited water for household and agricultural irrigation purposes from the local bodies of water and aquifers because of something called "water rights".
 
2013-10-10 06:28:29 AM
Reading the contract when buying a home is better than a quick glance and signing right away .
 
2013-10-10 06:39:25 AM

CRtwenty: FTFA: In North Carolina, a group of distraught homeowners contacted the state Attorney General's office last year after they discovered that they had signed away their mineral rights when they bought their homes - just as the state was about to open its doors to fracking. "Everybody started to panic, because we were part of the area where there was potentially going to be fracking," says Jay Mosesson, a homeowner in the Legend Oaks subdivision in Chapel Hill.

Who wants to bet that a lot of these guys were fans of "Drill Baby Drill" before this incident?


In chapel hill? More likely wanted alcohol furls.
 
2013-10-10 06:44:08 AM

mike_d85: CRtwenty: FTFA: In North Carolina, a group of distraught homeowners contacted the state Attorney General's office last year after they discovered that they had signed away their mineral rights when they bought their homes - just as the state was about to open its doors to fracking. "Everybody started to panic, because we were part of the area where there was potentially going to be fracking," says Jay Mosesson, a homeowner in the Legend Oaks subdivision in Chapel Hill.

Who wants to bet that a lot of these guys were fans of "Drill Baby Drill" before this incident?

In chapel hill? More likely wanted alcohol furls.


Alcohol FUELS*.
 
2013-10-10 06:44:56 AM
"All the smart developers are doing it," says Lance Astrella, a Denver lawyer who represents mineral-rights owners, including homebuilders, in deals with energy companies.

Developers are basically scum in the first place, but these "smart" ones are the scummiest.
 
2013-10-10 06:51:29 AM
Unless you inherited your land from your great grandfather you probably don't own your mineral rights or your land doesn't have minerals.
 
2013-10-10 06:53:42 AM
fc01.deviantart.net


"Cocksuckers.  Cocksuckers everywhere."

 
2013-10-10 06:55:40 AM
aaaand who doesn't know this?

Apparently subby.
 
2013-10-10 06:59:46 AM

CRtwenty: FTFA: In North Carolina, a group of distraught homeowners contacted the state Attorney General's office last year after they discovered that they had signed away their mineral rights when they bought their homes - just as the state was about to open its doors to fracking. "Everybody started to panic, because we were part of the area where there was potentially going to be fracking," says Jay Mosesson, a homeowner in the Legend Oaks subdivision in Chapel Hill.

Who wants to bet that a lot of these guys were fans of "Drill Baby Drill" before this incident?



You clearly know nothing about Chapel Hill.

NC's legislature just this year passed a bill allowing resource extraction companies (i.e. oil and mining businesses) the right to drill/mine on your property if enough of your neighbors agree to allow the practice on their lands. I don't know what the 'magic number' of neighbors is or how they arrive at it, but that's a dishonest slap at property rights any way you look at it.
 
2013-10-10 06:59:54 AM

PunGent: FTA:  "But buyers don't necessarily review their paperwork very closely, especially if, as real-estate agents say happens often, they don't hire a lawyer to help them with the transaction."

Spend $500,000 on a house, won't spend $500 on a lawyer?

My sympathy meter, she is pegged...at zero.

Heck, title search isn't THAT complicated...it's basically just reading.
Do it yourself, if you're too cheap to hire someone.

/seriously, hire someone
//it's short money compared to your investment


WHen I closed,  amoungst the eleventy brazillion documents I signed was one saying someone else owned my mineral rights.  It was pretty clearly labeled unlike most of the other documents.
 
2013-10-10 07:00:37 AM
Rich, white, HOA, and Floridian....color me not caring.
 
2013-10-10 07:18:18 AM

PunGent: FTA:  "But buyers don't necessarily review their paperwork very closely, especially if, as real-estate agents say happens often, they don't hire a lawyer to help them with the transaction."

Spend $500,000 on a house, won't spend $500 on a lawyer?

My sympathy meter, she is pegged...at zero.

Heck, title search isn't THAT complicated...it's basically just reading.
Do it yourself, if you're too cheap to hire someone.

/seriously, hire someone
//it's short money compared to your investment


Owner/Buyer's problem either they didn't hire a lawyer or they hired one that didn't do the job. Just bought a house and the lawyer reviewed that it had a natural gas lease on it, I had a copy of it weeks before closure. Typical lazy  'not-my-fault-itis'.
 
2013-10-10 07:28:14 AM

Shirley Ujest: PunGent: FTA:  "But buyers don't necessarily review their paperwork very closely, especially if, as real-estate agents say happens often, they don't hire a lawyer to help them with the transaction."

Spend $500,000 on a house, won't spend $500 on a lawyer?

My sympathy meter, she is pegged...at zero.

Heck, title search isn't THAT complicated...it's basically just reading.
Do it yourself, if you're too cheap to hire someone.

/seriously, hire someone
//it's short money compared to your investment

These are the same people who try to sell their $500k+ homes themselves with a $3.00 Home For Sale sign or better, it is hand written on paper.

The best sign I ever saw was 20 years ago outside of a tidy bunagalow. All done in wood, maybe laser cut, but seeing elderly man push mowing, I guess it was hand done. It was a thing of beauty. It told me everything needed to know about the house and the owner.well taken care of.


Hehe, I was trvelling for work once, and at a post office in very rural WV (I think it was War county, might have been around Beckley though) I overheard some random person talking with the Post Office clerk:

Lady - I decided to sell my house.
Clerk - Oh?  Did you hire a real estate agent?
Lady - No, I put a sign up.
Clerk - Ah, and just listed it in the paper yourself?
Lady - Nope, just the sign in the front yard.

At this point I had to try reeaaaaaally hard not to laugh or speak up...
 
2013-10-10 07:29:20 AM
Naples?  The home town of the Tea-Bag Party's financiers?  Home of Rick Scott?

The only Florida community that kissed Sarah Palin's "drill baby, drill" white trash ass?

Taste the schadenfreude!
 
2013-10-10 07:39:36 AM
Congratulation on your green light, subby.
 
2013-10-10 07:44:53 AM
' The officials assured residents that they would have a say in choosing the shrubs and trees to be planted to conceal the drilling operation and minimize noise.'

All better now?
 
2013-10-10 07:48:55 AM

SwiftFox: And in more breaking news, new land purchasers in America's arid west are discovering, to their surprise and anger, that they can't take and use unlimited water for household and agricultural irrigation purposes from the local bodies of water and aquifers because of something called "water rights".


And there are some jurisdictions where it's illegal to collect rain water.
 
2013-10-10 07:57:26 AM
How do you think the western Cherokee Nation funds itself?
 
2013-10-10 08:00:58 AM

Whatchoo Talkinbout: ' The officials assured residents that they would have a say in choosing the shrubs and trees to be planted to conceal the drilling operation and minimize noise.'

All better now?


NI!   NNNNNNNIII!

/We shall not allow your minerals rights to pass in the sale without...A SHRUBBERY!!
//ni...
 
2013-10-10 08:04:17 AM
For most of these folks it is not really about mineral rights, but more of a NIMBY attitude.

Unless you own an area larger than 10 acres, I seriously doubt there is enough value in minerals there to get in a fuss about.
People living in suburban neighborhoods cannot expect to actually be able to make any money from minerals under their homes.
 
2013-10-10 08:06:19 AM

my_cats_breath_smells_like_cat_food: Hehe, I was trvelling for work once, and at a post office in very rural WV (I think it was War county, might have been around Beckley though) I overheard some random person talking with the Post Office clerk:

Lady - I decided to sell my house.
Clerk - Oh?  Did you hire a real estate agent?
Lady - No, I put a sign up.
Clerk - Ah, and just listed it in the paper yourself?
Lady - Nope, just the sign in the front yard.

At this point I had to try reeaaaaaally hard not to laugh or speak up...



My family sold a house this way once. Took less than a week. You go on paying some high school educated salesman $15k for the service though... Totally worth it...
 
2013-10-10 08:18:13 AM
Separating mineral and surface rights should not be allowed IMHO.
 
2013-10-10 08:18:59 AM

MemeSlave: Rich, white, HOA, and Floridian....color me not caring.


This and then some.  When you buy into douchey you're going to get douchey.
 
2013-10-10 08:22:12 AM
My aunt bought 100 acres in West Virginia about 40 years ago. Enter natural gas 10 years ago.

She didn't have mineral rights but she does have surface rights, so she cut a deal where as long as the equipment is on an out of sight corner of the property AND she gets free gas for life, it's all good.

Heated pool, etc and no bills. It's a sweet deal.
 
2013-10-10 08:34:28 AM

bluenovaman: Separating mineral and surface rights should not be allowed IMHO.


Why would you advocate not being allowed to do with your own land what you want?
 
2013-10-10 08:36:21 AM
There was just a greenlight on fracking here in Illinois.  There are a few other hoops to jump through first, but it seems pretty clear that it's going to happen, and soon.  I'm pretty sure that, 20 years from now, significant chunks of the US will no longer be reasonably habitable, or farmable, because the ground water will be poisoned.

And the laws they've pushed through will ensure that, no matter what damage they do, they won't be liable, and they won't even have to tell you what they did, or what they used.

Next trick will be to go the Monsanto route and push through a law that says, if they find any of the chemicals they don't have to disclose in your groundwater, you have to pay them royalties.
 
2013-10-10 08:36:41 AM
That's how home builders feed their squirrels!
 
2013-10-10 08:37:34 AM

Bendal: CRtwenty: FTFA: In North Carolina, a group of distraught homeowners contacted the state Attorney General's office last year after they discovered that they had signed away their mineral rights when they bought their homes - just as the state was about to open its doors to fracking. "Everybody started to panic, because we were part of the area where there was potentially going to be fracking," says Jay Mosesson, a homeowner in the Legend Oaks subdivision in Chapel Hill.

Who wants to bet that a lot of these guys were fans of "Drill Baby Drill" before this incident?


You clearly know nothing about Chapel Hill.

NC's legislature just this year passed a bill allowing resource extraction companies (i.e. oil and mining businesses) the right to drill/mine on your property if enough of your neighbors agree to allow the practice on their lands. I don't know what the 'magic number' of neighbors is or how they arrive at it, but that's a dishonest slap at property rights any way you look at it.


Wow. That's crazy.
 
2013-10-10 08:39:51 AM

Friskya: Any competent title insurance company should be able to find this. Hell, a semi-competent title insurance company should be able to find this. Mine did. Not only did they find it, but they helped the seller get the rights returned, since I had made it clear that to not do so was a deal breaker.


this.
if the title search and the hoa papers failed to disclose the mineral rights issue i'd suppose there would be grounds for lawsuits.
 
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