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(Slashdot)   GNU Make 4.0 released, is sadly compatible with prior versions   (news.slashdot.org) divider line 52
    More: Sad, wildebeests, versions, Guile  
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2991 clicks; posted to Geek » on 09 Oct 2013 at 5:54 PM (46 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-09 04:58:18 PM
Now, with Lisp, because there just weren't enough things going on in there before this.

The mind wobbles.
 
2013-10-09 05:58:47 PM

Sliding Carp: Now, with Lisp, because there just weren't enough things going on in there before this.

The mind wobbles.


(((I)((have))(no)(idea))((why)(that)((would)bother)anyone))
 
2013-10-09 06:05:15 PM
Why is backward compatibility bad in this case?

/isn't everyone always biatching when backward compatibility vanishes?
 
2013-10-09 06:05:50 PM
This might be the most "geek" link I've seen on Fark in ages..
 
2013-10-09 06:06:51 PM
images.techhive.com
 
2013-10-09 06:06:52 PM

ajgeek: Why is backward compatibility bad in this case?

/isn't everyone always biatching when backward compatibility vanishes?


Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
 
2013-10-09 06:10:49 PM
Once upon a time, I was a makefile ninja. Thankfully, I don't have to do that any more. Build automation tools have gotten much, much better.
 
2013-10-09 06:20:16 PM
A link to a blog post that links to a blog post that links to the original content.  Awesome.
 
jvl
2013-10-09 06:25:02 PM
Today in things that might have been news in 1990...
 
2013-10-09 06:30:20 PM

Honest Bender: A link to a blog post that links to a blog post that links to the original content.  Awesome.


Someone at Fark must work at Slashdot also, or they are paying for the greenlights.
 
2013-10-09 06:34:04 PM
It's hard for me to understand what particular group the submitter is trolling here.

/that's the key to greenlights these days AFAIK
 
2013-10-09 07:08:27 PM
I want a GCC BASIC compiler built in, god damn it!
 
2013-10-09 07:12:22 PM

ajgeek: Why is backward compatibility bad in this case?

/isn't everyone always biatching when backward compatibility vanishes?


FTFY. And now the question answers itself.
 
2013-10-09 07:14:36 PM

Cybernetic: Once upon a time, I was a makefile ninja. Thankfully, I don't have to do that any more. Build automation tools have gotten much, much better.


Thinking back, I may have spent more time debugging my make files than my code on some projects. Or at least it seemed longer.
 
2013-10-09 07:15:56 PM

ajgeek: Why is backward compatibility bad in this case?

/isn't everyone always biatching when backward compatibility vanishes?


If subby is complaining about backward compatibility, what is subby saying about earlier versions?

Make is like a flat head screwdriver.  Essential to history. You're never prepared for when it slips and scrapes the flesh off your hand.

In particular, Make farks with the UNIX philosophy of whitespace characters by insisting on TABs on certain lines when in general on UNIX there is no difference between spaces and tabs in part because they are visually the same.

After that Make has some odd and confusing syntax rules and often what happens is there is no Make expert on a project, so a project will "borrow" another project's makefiles, and hack on them until the "seem" to do the right thing,and then use them tossing more crap into them until they are totally broken at which time they are flushed.

And people try to replace Make with systems like Ant and Maven but in general are not able to successfully replace Make, and those newer systems are often worse for their own reasons.

So now someone comes out with a new flat head screwdriver and this one has a built in flashlight but at its core, it's still going to slip one day and make you bleed.
 
2013-10-09 07:27:56 PM
So this is the answer to the question "What's GNU with you?"
I have no clue what GNU with Make is. Strange new brand of ice cream sandwich? I prefer Blue Bunny brand myself. They also make an awesome Root Beer Ice Cream Float Ice cream Bar that's really awesome. Their Banana Split Ice cream kicks all kinds of ass.
I still don't know what GNU is.....or is that are.....
Gnu are wildebeests.
http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/mammals/wildebeest/
See?
Wildebeest.
That would be great name for a truck or SUV. "Where do you want these 4 rolls of barbed wire, Jesse? Oh....just throw 'em in back of the 'Beest"
 
2013-10-09 07:30:07 PM
And that's GOOD NEWS, from Gary, the Gnu.
 
2013-10-09 07:34:45 PM

RoyBatty: Make is like a flat head screwdriver.


And Autotools is like jamming that flat-head screwdriver into your chest until you die.
 
2013-10-09 07:36:11 PM

cman: I want a GCC BASIC compiler built in, god damn it!


Lulz
 
2013-10-09 07:37:48 PM

MrEricSir: RoyBatty: Make is like a flat head screwdriver.

And Autotools is like jamming that flat-head screwdriver into your chest until you die.


Yes indeed.
 
2013-10-09 07:39:09 PM

Fano: And that's GOOD NEWS, from Gary, the Gnu.


No gnews is good gnews with Gary Gnu.
 
2013-10-09 07:43:31 PM

RexTalionis: cman: I want a GCC BASIC compiler built in, god damn it!

Lulz


BASIC is best
 
2013-10-09 08:03:18 PM

jjorsett: Cybernetic: Once upon a time, I was a makefile ninja. Thankfully, I don't have to do that any more. Build automation tools have gotten much, much better.

Thinking back, I may have spent more time debugging my make files than my code on some projects. Or at least it seemed longer.


I once spent most of a day debugging a makefile error that boiled down to one line being indented with spaces instead of a tab. Good times.
 
2013-10-09 08:15:17 PM

styckx: This might be the most "geek" link I've seen on Fark in ages..


Frankly, I'm impressed that we are over twenty comments at this point...
 
2013-10-09 08:17:40 PM

cman: I want a GCC BASIC compiler built in, god damn it!


You'll use gambas and like it, cman...
 
2013-10-09 08:42:57 PM

Cybernetic: jjorsett: Cybernetic: Once upon a time, I was a makefile ninja. Thankfully, I don't have to do that any more. Build automation tools have gotten much, much better.

Thinking back, I may have spent more time debugging my make files than my code on some projects. Or at least it seemed longer.

I once spent most of a day debugging a makefile error that boiled down to one line being indented with spaces instead of a tab. Good times.


I've had that shiat happen to me as well. Once I was helping a guy out that had edited the file in microsoft word and ftp-ed it back because "vi is to hard".

Some people just don't get it.


Candygram4Mongo: styckx: This might be the most "geek" link I've seen on Fark in ages..

Frankly, I'm impressed that we are over twenty comments at this point...


Same here.
 
2013-10-09 08:50:19 PM

RoyBatty: ajgeek: Why is backward compatibility bad in this case?

/isn't everyone always biatching when backward compatibility vanishes?

If subby is complaining about backward compatibility, what is subby saying about earlier versions?

Make is like a flat head screwdriver.  Essential to history. You're never prepared for when it slips and scrapes the flesh off your hand.

In particular, Make farks with the UNIX philosophy of whitespace characters by insisting on TABs on certain lines when in general on UNIX there is no difference between spaces and tabs in part because they are visually the same.

After that Make has some odd and confusing syntax rules and often what happens is there is no Make expert on a project, so a project will "borrow" another project's makefiles, and hack on them until the "seem" to do the right thing,and then use them tossing more crap into them until they are totally broken at which time they are flushed.

And people try to replace Make with systems like Ant and Maven but in general are not able to successfully replace Make, and those newer systems are often worse for their own reasons.

So now someone comes out with a new flat head screwdriver and this one has a built in flashlight but at its core, it's still going to slip one day and make you bleed.


"the devil you know is better than the devil you don't"?

FWIW one of the environments I use (geant4) has moved to cmake. I got over it...
 
2013-10-09 09:07:53 PM

cman: RexTalionis: cman: I want a GCC BASIC compiler built in, god damn it!

Lulz

BASIC is best


I thought the joke is that you wanted a BASIC compiler, but BASIC is an interpreted language.
 
2013-10-09 09:45:17 PM
Ah yes, I remember programming in languages that you needed to use a handmade build system for because the compilers were so primitive they couldn't discover what the dependencies were.  Good thing we don't use anything like that today.
 
2013-10-09 10:01:05 PM
devine: Cybernetic: jjorsett: Cybernetic: Once upon a time, I was a makefile ninja. Thankfully, I don't have to do that any more. Build automation tools have gotten much, much better.

Thinking back, I may have spent more time debugging my make files than my code on some projects. Or at least it seemed longer.

I once spent most of a day debugging a makefile error that boiled down to one line being indented with spaces instead of a tab. Good times.

I've had that shiat happen to me as well. Once I was helping a guy out that had edited the file in microsoft word and ftp-ed it back because "viab is to hard".

Some people just don't get it.

I remember being the makefile expert.  I think I was the only one that could remember to diff the current version with the previous checked in file.  When some fool replaced tabs with spaces it often showed up in the diff.  I also used vi to find the tabs.  Usually I found the problem in a few minutes.  (farking chemists!)  Bonus is it was usually CHARMM (well CHARMm) makefiles  (see Nobel prize thread).
 
2013-10-09 10:02:40 PM

cman: I want a GCC BASIC compiler built in, god damn it!


I've wondered about that sometimes.  Not that I really wanted a BASIC compiler, but I'm surprised that somebody hasn't risen to the challenge just because.  My limited (and possibly flawed) understanding of GCC is that the languages compile to intermediate platform-neutral code which is then optimized and made into object code.  I know that there are open source BASIC compilers out there already, but to be able to target any architecture GCC supports (assuming my first statement is true) would be pretty neat.

Then again, being BASIC, whose dialect should/would it support?
 
2013-10-09 10:10:58 PM
All build tools suck.  Especially "none".

/all software sucks.
 
gcc
2013-10-09 10:12:06 PM
Jesus, this thread is pinging me like crazy.
 
2013-10-09 10:33:19 PM
You have been eaten by a Gnu.
 
2013-10-09 10:34:53 PM
RexTalionis:
I thought the joke is that you wanted a BASIC compiler, but BASIC is an interpreted language.

Yeah, about that...

i3.minus.com

I was looking for a pic from the C-64 one that I had so, so many years ago.
 
2013-10-09 10:45:16 PM

zjbs14: RexTalionis:
I thought the joke is that you wanted a BASIC compiler, but BASIC is an interpreted language.

Yeah, about that...

[i3.minus.com image 200x230]

I was looking for a pic from the C-64 one that I had so, so many years ago.


Well, okay, clearly, I've been out of the loop for 30 years.
 
2013-10-09 11:25:49 PM
localtalk.mynewplace.com
 
2013-10-10 02:38:20 AM

cman: I want a GCC BASIC compiler built in, god damn it!


Well, there is this: http://freebasic.net/  It is a BASIC compiler that uses GCC as a backend. You know, just in case you were serious.
 
2013-10-10 02:57:53 AM
FaygoMaster:
Then again, being BASIC, whose dialect should/would it support?

GW BASIC 3.0 of course!  Do you even have to ask?
 
2013-10-10 05:08:40 AM

rwfan: devine: Cybernetic: jjorsett: Cybernetic: Once upon a time, I was a makefile ninja. Thankfully, I don't have to do that any more. Build automation tools have gotten much, much better.

Thinking back, I may have spent more time debugging my make files than my code on some projects. Or at least it seemed longer.

I once spent most of a day debugging a makefile error that boiled down to one line being indented with spaces instead of a tab. Good times.

I've had that shiat happen to me as well. Once I was helping a guy out that had edited the file in microsoft word and ftp-ed it back because "viab is to hard".

Some people just don't get it.

I remember being the makefile expert.  I think I was the only one that could remember to diff the current version with the previous checked in file.  When some fool replaced tabs with spaces it often showed up in the diff.  I also used vi to find the tabs.  Usually I found the problem in a few minutes.  (farking chemists!)  Bonus is it was usually CHARMM (well CHARMm) makefiles  (see Nobel prize thread).



LMAO !!! make expert,  and can't quote a post on an antequated commenting system.
 
2013-10-10 05:23:23 AM
:/
 
2013-10-10 05:34:04 AM

ajgeek: Why is backward compatibility bad in this case?

/isn't everyone always biatching when backward compatibility vanishes?


There is no Lovecraftian horror quite as exquisite as having to take apart an automake script from days of yore.
 
2013-10-10 06:00:55 AM

Candygram4Mongo: styckx: This might be the most "geek" link I've seen on Fark in ages..

Frankly, I'm impressed that we are over twenty comments at this point...


Someone must have submitted this will the -Wall argument enabled.
 
2013-10-10 06:23:55 AM

MrEricSir: RoyBatty: Make is like a flat head screwdriver.

And Autotools is like jamming that flat-head screwdriver into your chest until you die.


After indulging in an improvised Bond Villain style long winded explanation of how you cunning plan was supposed to work.
 
2013-10-10 06:46:03 AM
I haven't used Make in years. I am ok with this.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-10-10 07:31:03 AM
If FSF is willing to abolish autoconf and automake I will forgive a new version of make.
 
2013-10-10 08:54:04 AM

Leader O'Cola: rwfan: devine: Cybernetic: jjorsett: Cybernetic: Once upon a time, I was a makefile ninja. Thankfully, I don't have to do that any more. Build automation tools have gotten much, much better.

Thinking back, I may have spent more time debugging my make files than my code on some projects. Or at least it seemed longer.

I once spent most of a day debugging a makefile error that boiled down to one line being indented with spaces instead of a tab. Good times.

I've had that shiat happen to me as well. Once I was helping a guy out that had edited the file in microsoft word and ftp-ed it back because "viab is to hard".

Some people just don't get it.

I remember being the makefile expert.  I think I was the only one that could remember to diff the current version with the previous checked in file.  When some fool replaced tabs with spaces it often showed up in the diff.  I also used vi to find the tabs.  Usually I found the problem in a few minutes.  (farking chemists!)  Bonus is it was usually CHARMM (well CHARMm) makefiles  (see Nobel prize thread).


LMAO !!! make expert,  and can't quote a post on an antequated commenting system.


What's the nerd version of the ITG?
 
2013-10-10 12:42:51 PM

Evil Twin Skippy: ajgeek: Why is backward compatibility bad in this case?

/isn't everyone always biatching when backward compatibility vanishes?

There is no Lovecraftian horror quite as exquisite as having to take apart an automake script from days of yore.


This.

My make files in college were me hacking on some  inherited Makefile that someone else had inherited and then hacked on from someone else ...

I never had the slightest farking clue what was going on with those suckers.
 
2013-10-10 07:20:01 PM
... people still work in C++?
 
2013-10-10 08:25:34 PM

Marine1: ... people still work in C++?


I do. Then again, I'm a physicist, and someone that has to work within established environments...

meyerkev: My make files in college were me hacking on some  inherited Makefile that someone else had inherited and then hacked on from someone else ...


Same here. I often write my own, but for relatively simple projects. I have, however, seen makefile set-ups that make my head spin. cheers
 
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