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(Fox News)   Appellate Court rules spanking with wooden spoon not abuse if done correctly and a safe word is used   (foxnews.com) divider line 16
    More: Strange, Department of Social Services, Appeals Court, regulations, child abuses, trial courts, lower courts  
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1890 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Oct 2013 at 12:50 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-09 11:30:04 AM  
2 votes:

Mentat: mediablitz: Nothing tells a child violence is wrong like using violence. That should teach her to stay out of violent gangs!

It sure as hell taught me that.


It tuaght me to be violent. It took until I was in my 30's to overcome the "old school" shiat that being beaten as a child instilled.

I'm glad I didn't pass that retarded shiat on to my kids. My dad died a couple weeks ago, and his biggest regret was using violence to "discipline" his kids.

If you can't out think a kid, you are the loser.
2013-10-09 03:37:45 PM  
1 votes:
So can I beat another adult with a wooden spoon, provided I have a good reason? And then it's not assault because he was annoying the crap out of me and asking him to stop didn't work?

No. It's still assault even though it was part of an attempt to change his behavior. Why do some people think it's okay to commt assault as long as the victim is a child?
2013-10-09 02:07:09 PM  
1 votes:
Does this ruling mean I can hit law enforcement officers with a spoon when they're being disrespectful and "other discipline" is ineffective? What about my employees? My spouse?

/ Can't understand why hitting (with a weapon) is good, but only for children
2013-10-09 01:58:48 PM  
1 votes:

TNel: jst3p: Yep, when my son was 3 taking his Buzz and Woody, which he LOVED, and hanging them where he could see them but not reach them was quite effective. Now taking their laptop or ipod, whichever they have been using the most at the time, works wonders. But don't let our actual experience as parents change your mind TNel.Do what you need to in order to believe that the spankings you received were the only way you would have learned.

I have 3 boys ages 6,5,4 so please try and say how I don't have kids and how great parents you are I think it's amusing.  I'm sure that one child of yours was soo tough to raise.


It is easier to argue against things I pretended to say, rather than what I actually said, I will give you that.

I have two and two step kids, one with ADD, do you want to pull more information about my life and experience out of your ass? More than one poster in this thread have had success with discipline methods that you dismissed as "teaching them nothing". You have been shown that you are wrong about that. Is it possible that you are wrong in believing spanking is best for your kids?

I don't expect an honest answer, that would require a level of objectivity and introspection that many aren't capable of.

I am not saying you will break your kids by spanking them, maybe you will and maybe you wont. What I can say is that it isn't required in order to raise well behaved kids, and you will never know the joy of having a daughter who says "Daddy, I love knowing that you will never hurt me on purpose."

Yeah, she actually said that in a discussion contrasting me and her mom's discipline styles.
2013-10-09 01:50:46 PM  
1 votes:

TNel: the way you punish your child does not sway how they turn out,


Then how about we all agree that punishing them without hitting them is better for all involved? Spanking is lazy parenting.
2013-10-09 01:47:24 PM  
1 votes:
Liberals: Against spanking but for global infanticide.
2013-10-09 01:36:54 PM  
1 votes:

Saborlas: TNel: If that was your dads biggest regret then he was abusing you and not just spanking you. I was spanked with wooden spoons and I'm about the calmest person around, never got into any fights, never made fun of people in school and graduated near the top in my class.

In other words, you were too scared of authority to defy it. I'm willing to bet there was at least one situation where you SHOULD have defied authority, but you had all the defiance beaten out of you at that point.

/sick of all the "I was beaten and I turned out fine" arguments
//especially when a closer examination reveals that the person saying it did NOT turn out fine at all


Thanks for the input, Dr. Phil.

I'd offer evidence to the contrary, but you're obviously too deeply entrenched in your own opinion to consider the fact that plenty of evidence refutes everything you're saying.
2013-10-09 01:11:26 PM  
1 votes:

drjekel_mrhyde: In before the childless people come in with their opinion.


The opinions of childless people are just as valid as others.

You don't have to have the disease to be a doctor or nurse.

A person with an idiotic theory on raising your children is called your parent. Unless, of course, it's your child.

Speaking of children, those of us who were once children ourselves sometimes remember what worked and what didn't.

Excess in anything is bad. Too much violence, too much yelling, too much inconsistency, too much sweetness and light, too much yapping without enough slapping, it's all bad.

Even too much reason and consistency is bad. It doesn't prepare children to deal with other children.

Some basic rules:

No hitting about the head. Brains don't improve with beating.

Be consistent. Lay down the rules, explain what will happen when they are broken, and then do it. Children  will test everything, including your patience. Good punishment is like good taxation: the taxpayer needs to know that the tax is fair more than anything. As Adam Smith says, a good tax should be just and transparent:

Who pays?
Where do they pay?
When do they pay?
How much do they pay?

These rules apply to taxes and to punishment, although taxes are nothing like punishment enough for the average landlord, worker, business person, or professional.

Be fair and be square. That's what parents are for. Also, it helps to be a bit nuts, but you knew that before you became a parent.

Children are adaptive organisms. There's no one way, but children will adapt to you, so don't be a complete a-hole as a parent or even as an innocent bystander.
2013-10-09 01:10:58 PM  
1 votes:

TNel: If that was your dads biggest regret then he was abusing you and not just spanking you. I was spanked with wooden spoons and I'm about the calmest person around, never got into any fights, never made fun of people in school and graduated near the top in my class.


In other words, you were too scared of authority to defy it. I'm willing to bet there was at least one situation where you SHOULD have defied authority, but you had all the defiance beaten out of you at that point.

/sick of all the "I was beaten and I turned out fine" arguments
//especially when a closer examination reveals that the person saying it did NOT turn out fine at all
2013-10-09 01:10:38 PM  
1 votes:

mediablitz: Mentat: mediablitz: Nothing tells a child violence is wrong like using violence. That should teach her to stay out of violent gangs!

It sure as hell taught me that.

It tuaght me to be violent. It took until I was in my 30's to overcome the "old school" shiat that being beaten as a child instilled.

I'm glad I didn't pass that retarded shiat on to my kids. My dad died a couple weeks ago, and his biggest regret was using violence to "discipline" his kids.

If you can't out think a kid, you are the loser.


Hooray!

Another thread where folks can project their anecdotal experiences onto others in the name of holier-than-thou soapbox protests! All the while completely ignoring that kids who were spanked turned out just fine, kids who were grounded turned out to be farking psychopaths, and vice versa! It's almost like everyone is different!

Hooray!
2013-10-09 01:10:16 PM  
1 votes:

Walker: Court approved child abuse. Cool. Another reason to leave the planet.


The court doesn't approve it, the legislature does. The court just finds that the conduct at issue could have been within the exception to the statute intended by the legislature.

"Foremost of the considerations leading us to this conclusion is the Legislature's 
explicit acknowledgment of a parental disciplinary prerogative in conjunction with its 
adoption of CANRA in 1980. In an uncodified statement of intention, the Legislature 
declared that "the reporting of child abuse and any subsequent action by a child 
protective agency involves a delicate balance between the right of parents to control and 
raise their own children by imposing reasonable discipline and the social interest in the 
protection and safety of the child. Therefore, it is the intent of the Legislature to require 
the reporting of child abuse which is of a serious nature and is not conduct which 
constitutes reasonable parental discipline." (Stats. 1980, ch. 1071, § 5, p. 3425.)"


Also, the court didn't throw it out because this was definitely not child abuse.  The court threw out the lower ruling because the lower court "erred in categorically rejecting Mother's assertion that the conduct reported as child abuse constituted a reasonable attempt to discipline her child."  In other words, for refusing to consider that parental discipline (among other things) could have been a defense.

Finally, there were numerous other problems with this case.  Not the least of which is that the agency's reporting of the child's testimony is contradicted by the child.  Also, the child was not allowed to testify at the hearing because "the hearing officer said that he was not inclined to allow Daughter to testify, suggesting that it would be "pretty traumatic."  The appellate court found that this was an abuse of discretion "There is no evidence in this record that Daughter would have suffered distress of  any kind or degree-let alone "trauma"-from testifying at the hearing. The only  evidence before the hearing officer was to the opposite effect. The representative of the  Department at the hearing told the officer that she had encountered Daughter outside the  hearing room and that Daughter was "very eager" to talk to him."

The actual opinion is available here:  http://www.courts.ca.gov/opinions/documents/H038241.PDF

The case was poorly handled by the agency, and the hearing officer failed to follow the statutes or enforce proper procedure.  The court was absolutely correct in tossing this case and making them either dismiss the complaint or do it again correctly.
2013-10-09 12:55:34 PM  
1 votes:

mediablitz: Mentat: mediablitz: Nothing tells a child violence is wrong like using violence. That should teach her to stay out of violent gangs!

It sure as hell taught me that.

It tuaght me to be violent. It took until I was in my 30's to overcome the "old school" shiat that being beaten as a child instilled.

I'm glad I didn't pass that retarded shiat on to my kids. My dad died a couple weeks ago, and his biggest regret was using violence to "discipline" his kids.

If you can't out think a kid, you are the loser.



If that was your dads biggest regret then he was abusing you and not just spanking you.  I was spanked with wooden spoons and I'm about the calmest person around, never got into any fights, never made fun of people in school and graduated near the top in my class.
2013-10-09 12:05:00 PM  
1 votes:
I remember my mom dragging me out of the bathtub and swatting me with a wooden spoon, because she was mad that I was splashing too much. She broke that damned thing right across my wet butt.

To this day, she insists that this is an appropriate response to a three-year-old acting like a three-year-old.
2013-10-09 11:14:11 AM  
1 votes:

mediablitz: Nothing tells a child violence is wrong like using violence. That should teach her to stay out of violent gangs!


It sure as hell taught me that.
2013-10-09 11:11:12 AM  
1 votes:
Court approved child abuse. Cool. Another reason to leave the planet.
2013-10-09 10:58:37 AM  
1 votes:
Nothing tells a child violence is wrong like using violence. That should teach her to stay out of violent gangs!
 
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