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(The Raw Story)   Atheist group warns Montgomery police: Sending evangelical pastors to crime scenes is not just a terrible idea, it's unconstitutional   (rawstory.com) divider line 121
    More: Dumbass, crime scenes, evangelical pastors, American Atheists, Fourteenth Amendments, state actor, state property, evangelicals, Christian radio  
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3435 clicks; posted to Politics » on 08 Oct 2013 at 1:58 PM (45 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-08 01:25:06 PM
Good idea: pooling community leaders and resources to focus on reducing crime and provide comfort and counseling to victims
Bad idea: bringing a church advertising brigade to crime scenes to proselytize.

So close, Alabama... so close.
 
2013-10-08 01:28:02 PM
While I find most atheists about as annoying as vegans (the ones who feel it necessary to proclaim themselves as such at any given opportunity, that is), they are right about this.

Then again, it's Alabama. What do you expect from the state that is the equivalent of the third grade kid in the corner eating paste all day long.
 
2013-10-08 01:43:21 PM
Co$ does this, too.  Did it after 9/11 and Katrina.  But they tried to conceal it.

Yeah, I think this is a bad idea in general, and agree it's not Constitutional specifically.  Even when my mom had an operation at a Seventh Day Adventist hospital, they were nice enough to ask her if she wanted to see a pastor.
 
2013-10-08 01:44:21 PM
"What we want to do is combine the religious community and the Montgomery Police Department and we want to unite those as one."

Well I guess there goes any hope of them trying to claim they were just providing counseling to crime victims.
 
2013-10-08 01:48:22 PM

exick: "What we want to do is combine the religious community and the Montgomery Police Department and we want to unite those as one."

Well I guess there goes any hope of them trying to claim they were just providing counseling to crime victims.


Hey, what church wouldn't want a free enforcement arm?  Except maybe Quakers.  Those p*ssies.
 
2013-10-08 02:03:07 PM
Americans United For Separation of Church And State have also voiced their opposition for this policy.

By the way, it's coming at taxpayer expense, since the police department pays for the training of the evangelical ministers, even though they are "volunteers"
 
2013-10-08 02:05:44 PM
Breaking news: Pastors discover they can easily touch young boys who are at deaths door from being in a car accident.

/And by touching, I mean mouth to mouth resuscitation.
//Let the Lord into your soul to save it, via the breath of Pastor Bob.
 
2013-10-08 02:06:05 PM
Why does the government need to pay money to send pastors to a crime scene?

Can't people search out their own ministers or counselors without tax dollars being used to proselytize?
 
2013-10-08 02:06:57 PM
Offering counseling by leaving your phone number with the police so that they can refer to you: hey, what a nice idea, you're a swell guy.

Actually flocking to crime scenes to jump into the situation: fark off and die, preferably painfully, you goddamned ambulance-chasing scumbag.
 
2013-10-08 02:08:03 PM
When you are a witness or victim to a crime you have two paths to go down: More crime or Jesus.

filmgarb.com
 
2013-10-08 02:08:08 PM
Holy crap!!

"The department's official chaplain Corp. David Hicks said in an interview on Christian radio, 'What we want to do is combine the religious community and the Montgomery Police Department and we want to unite those as one.'"

That's bad.
 
2013-10-08 02:08:12 PM
The Rednecks have to be sued in order to get them to behave rationally.
 
2013-10-08 02:08:12 PM
Are they doing it to annoy passerby and keep them from hanging around and getting in the way?
'Cause that sounds like a pretty good idea.
 
2013-10-08 02:08:29 PM

Man On A Mission: While I find most atheists about as annoying as vegans (the ones who feel it necessary to proclaim themselves as such at any given opportunity, that is), they are right about this.


If you wonder why atheists are bitter around you, it's probably because their options for interacting with other people extend to "people who tell them they're going to hell every chance they get" and "people who tell them they're just as bad as fundamentalist religious groups every chance they get."
 
2013-10-08 02:08:29 PM

Man On A Mission: While I find most atheists about as annoying as vegans (the ones who feel it necessary to proclaim themselves as such at any given opportunity, that is).


I find people who complain about how annoying they find arbitrary classes of people at every opportunity as annoying as vegans.  But I'm glad you found a minority to hate.
 
2013-10-08 02:08:32 PM
GOD SQUAD!  This fall on NBC...
 
2013-10-08 02:09:03 PM

Misch: By the way, it's coming at taxpayer expense, since the police department pays for the training of the evangelical ministers, even though they are "volunteers"


That's only a problem if the department does not pay for the training of all "volunteers".
 
2013-10-08 02:09:13 PM
Atheists have a good point.  By all means the police should have grief counselors on hand.  I'm even fine with those counselors being ordained clergy.  But the counselor needs to strenuously avoid taking off their secular counselor hat, and putting on their evangelic preacher hat.

There's no basis for the police to have counselors on hand who make it a point to promote christianity or try to convert people thereto.
 
2013-10-08 02:09:25 PM
That seems a little self-defeating.

"Good evening ma'am.  I'm sorry to hear about your loss, that some criminal just killed your husband for his wallet.  But the Montgomery Sheriff's Department and I would like to remind you that the Good Lord has a Plan."

How many people are you willing to drive into Satan's clutches with your insensitivity and ambulance-chasing for the one person who'll actually appreciate it?
 
2013-10-08 02:10:17 PM

meat0918: Holy crap!!

"The department's official chaplain Corp. David Hicks said in an interview on Christian radio, 'What we want to do is combine the religious community and the Montgomery Police Department and we want to unite those as one.'"

That's bad.


Are you kidding? Combining religion and law enforcement can only lead to good things.
 
2013-10-08 02:10:53 PM
Misters who are also grief counselors fine.  Ministers who tell you you've believe the wrong thing, not so fine
 
2013-10-08 02:12:21 PM
qorkfiend:

Are you kidding? Combining religion and law enforcement can only lead to good things.

Like Iran or Saudi Arabia?
 
2013-10-08 02:12:39 PM

qorkfiend: meat0918: Holy crap!!

"The department's official chaplain Corp. David Hicks said in an interview on Christian radio, 'What we want to do is combine the religious community and the Montgomery Police Department and we want to unite those as one.'"

That's bad.

Are you kidding? Combining religion and law enforcement can only lead to good things.


It never ceases to amaze me how insanely regressive the South continues to be.  Seriously, it's like the South is stuck in the 1900s (or more accurately, the modern southerners' view of how things must have been back then).
 
2013-10-08 02:15:19 PM

Chummer45: Atheists have a good point.  By all means the police should have grief counselors on hand.  I'm even fine with those counselors being ordained clergy.  But the counselor needs to strenuously avoid taking off their secular counselor hat, and putting on their evangelic preacher hat.

There's no basis for the police to have counselors on hand who make it a point to promote christianity or try to convert people thereto.


This.

It might be even more effective if the counselor is one of the neighborhood ministers, someone that is known to the community.
 
2013-10-08 02:15:57 PM

qorkfiend: meat0918: Holy crap!!

"The department's official chaplain Corp. David Hicks said in an interview on Christian radio, 'What we want to do is combine the religious community and the Montgomery Police Department and we want to unite those as one.'"

That's bad.

Are you kidding? Combining religion and law enforcement can only lead to good things.


I think if a preacher had approached me at the scene of the double homicide of my co-workers, the detective would have had another murder, but a much easier case, on his hands.

/I was cracking jokes trying to make everyone else feel better. The last thing I would have done is tell people it was because they didn't believe in God enough.
 
2013-10-08 02:17:26 PM
"If you prayed to God more, he wouldn't have just killed your mommy in a car crash"
 
2013-10-08 02:19:10 PM

physt: GOD SQUAD!  This fall on NBC...


One black, one blonde, one born again in the blood of the lamb.
 
2013-10-08 02:21:35 PM
Wow, sending religious whackjobs to crime scenes is such a great idea!  I know that if one of my family was the victim of a crime, I would be enraged and there is nothing better to soothe the enraged soul than taking a hammer to some worthless individual trying to tell me some child's fantasy story while I'm grieving.
 
2013-10-08 02:23:17 PM

Chummer45: It never ceases to amaze me how insanely regressive the South continues to be.  Seriously, it's like the South is stuck in the 1900s (or more accurately, the modern southerners' view of how things must have been back then).


Yeah, was about to say, in the 1900s the average blue-collar worker was basically a communist in terms of sympathies if not literally a communist by self-identification.  Being too loud about favoring the robber-barons in a rural or factory area would be a good way to have the prices of everything around you mysteriously triple and every foot on the street accidentally tripping you by sheer coincidence.

It wouldn't have been a terribly comfortable time for the average hoveround-wielding TP guy, is what I'm saying here.  They talk about class warfare a lot, but that period had actual class warfare, Pinkertons and Roosevelt tasking the army to interfere in labor disputes and everything.
 
2013-10-08 02:23:34 PM
The department's official chaplain Corp. David Hicks said in an interview on Christian radio, "What we want to do is combine the religious community and the Montgomery Police Department and we want to unite those as one."

Good. Now they can get to work gettin' those uppity wimmins back in the kitchen where God intended, and fer chrissake cover theyselfs up. Immodest hussies the lot of 'em.
 
2013-10-08 02:28:20 PM
"What we want to do is combine the religious community and the Montgomery Police Department and we want to unite those as one."

What could possibly go wrong?

The most horrifying thing, aside from the death of course, of my uncle's death in a very tragic and public way was the Christian vultures that began circling the moment the bodies were identified. Sweet mother of crap I almost punched a few. They kept showing up and offering words of comfort about heaven and being reunited and we were invited to church and how we could help Uncle Bob be remembered by dedicating a window/garden/annex/bibles in his name. Get your god out of my face and stop trying to prey on people for money, souls, and asses in your seats when they are trying to grieve.

Uncle Bob was a non-practicing Unitarian who was technically Catholic because would get his oldest daughter free tuition in a city where the public schools BLEW. He would have thrown your asses out. Now go. At least they helped me get through the anger part by screaming at them.
 
2013-10-08 02:30:30 PM

factoryconnection: Good idea: pooling community leaders and resources to focus on reducing crime and provide comfort and counseling to victims
Bad idea: bringing a church advertising brigade to crime scenes to proselytize.

So close, Alabama... so close.


Was going to say something similar.
 
2013-10-08 02:30:57 PM
You know, on second thought, I think a lot of us are missing how hilariously funny this approach could be.

Just think what could have happened if a government paid and sponsored chaplain had come up to preach at such historical crime scenes as George Tiller, Matthew Sheppard, or your average abortion clinic bombing!
 
2013-10-08 02:31:26 PM

rosebud_the_sled: Wow, sending religious whackjobs to crime scenes is such a great idea!  I know that if one of my family was the victim of a crime, I would be enraged and there is nothing better to soothe the enraged soul than taking a hammer to some worthless individual trying to tell me some child's fantasy story while I'm grieving.


I actually said to one of them "I'm having enough problems dealing with this reality without you trying to share your delusions and fantasies. Get away from me before I stop being nice." It is horrifying to have that kind of shiat happen. I could not imagine having that happen bolstered with legitimacy and rights to be there because of the police.
 
2013-10-08 02:31:50 PM

Chummer45: qorkfiend: meat0918: Holy crap!!

"The department's official chaplain Corp. David Hicks said in an interview on Christian radio, 'What we want to do is combine the religious community and the Montgomery Police Department and we want to unite those as one.'"

That's bad.

Are you kidding? Combining religion and law enforcement can only lead to good things.

It never ceases to amaze me how insanely regressive the South continues to be.  Seriously, it's like the South is stuck in the 1900s 1840s (or more accurately, the modern southerners' view of how things must have been back then).


FTFY
 
2013-10-08 02:32:30 PM
This would be useful if you found a dead bishop on the landing
 
2013-10-08 02:32:50 PM
"Operation Good Shepherd is a taxpayer-funded program that sends Christian pastors to crime scenes in order to preach Christianity to the victims of crimes and the surrounding people,"

That seems to serve no purpose. However if these pastors were carrying holy oil which they used to anoint the criminals or the crime scenes to drive away the demons that caused the crime, then I might support that.

https://www.google.com/search?q=holy+oil+demons
https://www.google.com/search?q=holy+oil+demons
 
2013-10-08 02:36:43 PM
While we all in this thread see this as an issue, and go "What are they thinking?", because (most) of us live in area's where there is a somewhat wide swath of different religious opinion..... this is Montgomery, AL, where easily 90+% of the people are evangelical christians.

That doesn't make it right, but, it is why something like this can go through with a "Yeah, so?" attitude by almost all involved locally.
 
2013-10-08 02:40:06 PM

Man On A Mission: While I find most atheists about as annoying as vegans (the ones who feel it necessary to proclaim themselves as such at any given opportunity, that is), they are right about this.

Then again, it's Alabama. What do you expect from the state that is the equivalent of the third grade kid in the corner eating paste all day long.


Something something at least it's not Mississippi
 
2013-10-08 02:41:32 PM

dletter: While we all in this thread see this as an issue, and go "What are they thinking?", because (most) of us live in area's where there is a somewhat wide swath of different religious opinion..... this is Montgomery, AL, where easily 90+% of the people are evangelical christians.

That doesn't make it right, but, it is why something like this can go through with a "Yeah, so?" attitude by almost all involved locally.


Don't worry, that same group is now going to scream about how the gubmint is trying to repress their freedom of religion.
 
2013-10-08 02:42:15 PM
Why the hell do the police have a chaplain? This isn't the military, you're not stationed on base in Worst Korea. You work in your home town. You can go the fark to church.
 
2013-10-08 02:44:19 PM

BSABSVR: Why the hell do the police have a chaplain? This isn't the military, you're not stationed on base in Worst Korea. You work in your home town. You can go the fark to church.


But then they wouldn't be able to tell people that their loved ones wouldn't have died if they'd prayed more and/or donated more to the local church!
 
2013-10-08 02:46:33 PM

Bermuda59: This would be useful if you found a dead bishop on the landing


Is that rat tart?

/disgusting
 
2013-10-08 02:49:38 PM
Maybe they should fight so vehemently against religious male circumcision, but they don't got the balls.
 
2013-10-08 02:51:49 PM

poorcku: Maybe they should fight so vehemently against religious male circumcision, but they don't got the balls.


They're Christians, not Jews.  They don't have ritual circumcision.

//There is a general US tradition of circumcision, but that one's not religious, it's inherited from the military, which started encouraging it for (possibly dubious) health reasons in the middle of the last century.
 
2013-10-08 02:56:01 PM
qorkfiend:

Are you kidding? Combining religion and law enforcement can only lead to good things.

Religious police? Really? I thought American Taliban was supposed to by wry humor...
 
2013-10-08 02:56:04 PM

meat0918: Why does the government need to pay money to send pastors to a crime scene?

Can't people search out their own ministers or counselors without tax dollars being used to proselytize?


I would bet you the same people who like having this biatch about government assistance.

"Why does the government need to provide assistance?  Can't people search out their own charities and aid organizations?"
 
2013-10-08 03:07:19 PM

dletter: While we all in this thread see this as an issue, and go "What are they thinking?", because (most) of us live in area's where there is a somewhat wide swath of different religious opinion..... this is Montgomery, AL, where easily 90+% of the people are evangelical christians.

That doesn't make it right, but, it is why something like this can go through with a "Yeah, so?" attitude by almost all involved locally.


My first thought was that a guy in the right clothes (YMMV) kind of standing nearby as you go through all the horrible process of the crime scene would be kind of nice, if you're into that sort of thing. If there was a guy with long hair and an offensive Tshirt standing to one side and giving me the thumbs-up and I understood I could go to him and get hugs/beer/comfort/rant time as needed, I'd be pretty cool with that. And as you said, 90% of the people in that area would probably agree on what constitutes the right clothes that this most comforting-looking dude would be wearing.

Of course, I'm pretty damn sure that's not what's going on here.
 
2013-10-08 03:14:45 PM

Jim_Callahan: There is a general US tradition of circumcision, but that one's not religious, it's inherited from the military


Maybe in the military from thousands of years ago. Circumcision can make a penis look erect when it is not and it is rather intimidating to be attacked by a bunch of naked men that seem to be sporting erections.

That is similar to the motivation for tribesmen to wear penis sheaths.

blog.artasmoney.com
 
2013-10-08 03:15:19 PM

meat0918: Holy crap!!

"The department's official chaplain Corp. David Hicks said in an interview on Christian radio, 'What we want to do is combine the religious community and the Montgomery Police Department and we want to unite those as one.'"

That's bad.


The religious right really hates the ideas this country was founded on. They would prefer the theocracies of the Islamic world (just with a different name on the banners).
 
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