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(Reason Magazine)   Bad: You take too much diabetes medication and require medical attention. Good: Your fiancé is there to help and calls 911. Fark: The police show up at your door and shoot you dead   (reason.com) divider line 51
    More: Fail, Anti-diabetic medication, first aids, Georgia Bureau of Investigation, Florida Times-Union, Daniel Herron  
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16524 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Oct 2013 at 1:39 PM (28 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-10-08 01:17:20 PM
18 votes:
The increasing willingness of police to see every situation as requiring a SWAT response is a really terrifying development that I don't think gets nearly enough attention.
2013-10-08 01:44:36 PM
12 votes:
Another example of why cops should be required to wear video recording devices. Both to protect themselves against false accusations and to expose the ones that abuse their powers.
2013-10-08 01:22:47 PM
6 votes:
I really would like to hear the entirety of this story because none of this makes any sense whatsoever.
2013-10-08 01:16:26 PM
6 votes:
Is this the GOP's alternative to Obamacare?
2013-10-08 01:59:45 PM
4 votes:

They're lucky he was the only person hit. Usually when the police start shooting they hose down the entire block with lead.



i.imgur.com
After the incident, police ordered residents to stay indoors, but from his window Goo could see dozens of yellow markers on the ground used to mark the stray bullets. While out surveying the damage, he counted five bullets in his entryway, a bullet hole in his garage door, two bullets hits his silver Lexus and another bullet grazed the hood of his Oldsmobile.

"We are lucky because our cars are drivable, unlike our neighbors'," he said. ...

"That's why we live here because it is safe," said the cardiologist technician. "It's ironic that the only violence we experienced here is from LAPD."


From a distance of less than 10 feet , the officers, Craig Matthews and Robert Sinishtaj, answered in unison; one shot nine times and the other seven.
...
But the officers also struck some, if not all, of the nine bystanders who were wounded.


i.imgur.com

2013-10-08 01:48:08 PM
4 votes:
If cops don't start facing very, very serious consequences for these things, not only will they not stop, they will get worse.

When the police take a life, we need to start bringing them trial the same as we would with a civilian under the same circumstances. Let a jury decide if it was justified, not an internal review board. If the jury says it wasn't justified, let the cop go to prison.

Clearly, they can no longer be trusted to exercise good judgment on their own.
2013-10-08 01:45:07 PM
4 votes:
An overdose of insulin can make people behave very illogically, but combative? Anyone in the throes of a sugar crash that bad is going to be barely capable of standing.

My money is on the cops just being trigger happy; we are talking about a poor black family in Georgia here.
2013-10-08 01:38:11 PM
4 votes:
"He didn't have nothing in his hands at any time or period at all before they came, any time while they were here, anything. They just came in and shot him. He didn't say nothing, the police didn't say nothing, anything..."

I find this verrrrry dubious.
2013-10-08 01:53:47 PM
3 votes:
Cannot be repeated enough: Never, EVER call the cops, or even talk to them. For ANYTHING. EVER.

The halcyon days of Officer Friendly caring about John Q Public and remembering his oath to "protect and defend" are looooong gone. The police have almost entirely succumbed to the militaristic "enemy combatant" mindset and you are now a domestic enemy to be restrained and subdued at all costs, including your life, for any minor transgression or failure to be docile fast enough.

The fact that the few remaining good ones cover and excuse the bad ones is just insult on top of injury.
2013-10-08 01:53:14 PM
3 votes:

jake_lex: The increasing willingness of police to see every situation as requiring a SWAT response is a really terrifying development that I don't think gets nearly enough attention.


Actually it does and there are even multiple books and thousands of artciles written about the constant militarization and the increase belligerency of PDs all across the country. The problem is even with all the attention given the average Joe and Jane America STILL doesn't give a flying fark!
2013-10-08 01:13:18 PM
3 votes:
Diabetic while black.  He should have known better.
2013-10-08 02:36:52 PM
2 votes:

generallyso: Deathfrogg: We had a cop in my town that just flat out executed a man in the street in broad daylight, shooting him in the back and all that happened was he was allowed to quit rather than face an inquiry. It was cold-blooded murder, and the Cop was never even charged. It was only a "chronic public inebriate" after all. That Cop incidentally, was allowed to apply for disability and now gets about $30,000 per year (plus COL increases) for the rest of his life, courtesy of the taxpayers.

Could you dig up an article about that?


Even better, theres a vid.

Witnesses to the murder were saying that the dead man hadn't even responded to the officers commands and had only turned his head a little when the Cop opened fire. The knife was closed (Buck 119 folding knife) and it came out later that the Cop and the dead man had had some words earlier in the day that had made the Cop feel like a punk. This guy was executed for embarrassing a Police Officer. Officer Birk had already stated his intention to "get this guy" before this encounter.
It was a deliberate act of murder.
2013-10-08 02:18:43 PM
2 votes:

RickN99: Atypical Person Reading Fark: I find the story believable as written.

You do?  Cops open the door, walk into the room, nobody says anything.  The cops whip out guns, silently pick one of the room's occupants -- the cops must have agreed in advance to commit murder (unless they're psychic cops) -- and kill them for no reason at all.  That is what the mother says happens -- that sounds believable?


In the context of an increasingly violent Police mentality, it is perfectly believable. We had a cop in my town that just flat out executed a man in the street in broad daylight, shooting him in the back and all that happened was he was allowed to quit rather than face an inquiry. It was cold-blooded murder, and the Cop was never even charged. It was only a "chronic public inebriate" after all. That Cop incidentally, was allowed to apply for disability and now gets about $30,000 per year (plus COL increases) for the rest of his life, courtesy of the taxpayers.

No, the Police know they can do pretty much anything they please and never have to face any real scrutiny for their actions, no matter how egregious.
2013-10-08 01:49:36 PM
2 votes:
You are black and you live in waay waaay South Georgia, you call 911 to report that a black person is acting irrationally and the cops show up and shoot the guy and all of sudden you are surprised?
2013-10-08 01:47:21 PM
2 votes:
I find the story believable as written.  Have seen similar things (not ending in death) with my own eyes, having lived next to a big hospital.  People shot or beaten in the parking lot while seeking medical care.

Very medieval, really.
2013-10-08 01:44:29 PM
2 votes:
Well clearly he shouldn't have been a large black man. Hasn't there been other cases of people with the beetus getting shot/tazed because they were acting strange.
2013-10-08 01:42:41 PM
2 votes:
Why did they shoot him? Was he barking?
2013-10-08 01:41:32 PM
2 votes:

exick: I really would like to hear the entirety of this story because none of this makes any sense whatsoever.


Exactly.

As usual, the truth is somewhere in between the Family's story and the Cops story.
2013-10-08 01:13:25 PM
2 votes:
She called the wrong number.  She wanted 1-800-AMBULANCE, but called 1-800-AMBUSHME instead.
2013-10-09 02:26:30 PM
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: lucksi: Serious question: Why did the police come when you called an ambulance?

If I call for an ambulance in my country, then only an ambulance comes unless I also call for the police for example if there was a traffic accident.


It's more common in urban areas than it is rural areas, but typically they'll respond when the dispatcher feels there might be a threat to the crew, or someone being combative.

Certain cities send police automatically on certain types of calls because their crews have been assaulted many times.


If the caller reported that the person was comabative and threatening to harm himself, then absolutely the police would have been dispatched.  Most cities have combined police\fire\ems dispatch centers.
2013-10-08 11:43:28 PM
1 votes:

khyberkitsune: Anyone on the cops side needs to get diabetes.

If you're having diabetic issues, you're not standing, let alone wielding anything. You might be on your hands and knees clutching at the ground in extreme pain, but very likely, you're on the ground, crying like a little biatch and clutching yourself.

/had a diabetic boyfriend
//6'4" and played football. This brought him to his knees every time.


That's not how diabeetus works.  If you have low blood sugar, there are stages you'll hit on the way down.  If you have high blood sugar, there are stages you hit on the way up.

Each stage is different for each person.  Normally low blood sugar presents as irritability at first, then incoherence, and finally unconsciousness.  High blood sugar can run the gamut from shaking to seizures.

Unless you're having a heart attack or liver failure because of it, blood sugar levels shouldn't double you over in pain.
2013-10-08 06:37:56 PM
1 votes:

Bill_Wick's_Friend: Ed's Wood: So you'd be cool w/ every facet of your job being recorded & at any moment's notice,  you can be reviewed by a panel of people who aren't trained in your profession, have no idea what it's like to be in your profession & their sole purpose is to use calm, 20/20 hindsight in the safety of a tv monitor to judge how you reacted in the heat of an intense moment where you potentially feared for your own life as well as that of your team's?

The guy I do most of my consulting for can do all of that by checking IT records, listening to my calls if he wants, checking my work logs etc.  If he wants to stand over my desk (or hire someone to stand over my desk) and watch me work then that's his choice to do so, since he pays the bills.

If you work for the public?  Yeah, cops shouldn't have a problem with the public looking over their shoulder to make sure they're not corrupt, violent, abusive, failing the public trust etc.  Given that so very many cops DO seem to be violent, abusive and happy to violate the public's trust (and that for every bad cop there must be at least five to ten other cops who know their co-worker is bad but who say nothing due to the blue wall of silence) it doesn't seem at all unreasonable to want some close scrutiny on their actions.


/this post may be recorded for quality assurance


Because we  know there's no better source of objectivity than John Q. Public who spends all day and evening watching C.O.P.S. and major media for determining right and wrong with regards to split-second decisions involving life and death.

I mean, it's not like this thread is  full of mouth-breathing imbeciles who label anyone and everyone with a badge as a "pig" who wouldn't hesitate to ignore all reasoning and common sense just to "stick it to the man."

Good call, champ. People can't even read a farking news article and articulate  the stated facts correctly, and you think they should be deciding matters like police action. Guffaw.
2013-10-08 05:30:00 PM
1 votes:

gretzkyscores: Cannot be repeated enough: Never, EVER call the cops, or even talk to them. For ANYTHING. EVER.

The halcyon days of Officer Friendly caring about John Q Public and remembering his oath to "protect and defend" are looooong gone. The police have almost entirely succumbed to the militaristic "enemy combatant" mindset and you are now a domestic enemy to be restrained and subdued at all costs, including your life, for any minor transgression or failure to be docile fast enough.

The fact that the few remaining good ones cover and excuse the bad ones is just insult on top of injury.


She called for an ambulance and the cops showed up.
I agree with you. My kids are being taught to avoid the police at all costs.
2013-10-08 05:21:44 PM
1 votes:
it;s their job to shoot people
2013-10-08 05:00:50 PM
1 votes:

ArcadianRefugee: Isn't this one of those situations where the cops should, you know, use their tasers? Seems like the kind of situation the damned things were designed for.


That's what we were told.   Some of us even believed that line.
2013-10-08 04:53:38 PM
1 votes:
Black man.
State of JAWJUH.
Cops.
Who is surprised at this outcome?
2013-10-08 04:20:05 PM
1 votes:
Isn't this one of those situations where the cops should, you know, use their tasers? Seems like the kind of situation the damned things were designed for.
2013-10-08 04:20:05 PM
1 votes:

oldfarthenry: Is this the GOP's alternative to Obamacare?


How is "business as usual" an alternative?
2013-10-08 03:27:52 PM
1 votes:
Sin_City_Superhero:

A board made up of civilians that want to be cops, and the actual cops that they work in direct contact with, are charged with investigating other cops. You don't see that there might be a conflict of interest here?

Except that isn't at all the case in civilian review boards.  Successful CRBs are either appointed by City Councils (See: Berkeley Police Review Division), elected members of the city council itself (See: Portland Internal Investigations Auditing Committe), employees of Inspectors General chosen specifically for the task (See: LAPD Citizen's Commission), or a prosecutor/auditor from the local Prosecutor's office (See: San Jose IA/PSCU).  There are some communities that impanel grand juries for review that are exclusively chosen from the civilian population without any government influence beyond the initial panel selection.

I don't like cops, but fark learn about the things you're saying before randomly spouting off.
2013-10-08 03:07:35 PM
1 votes:
Hire a bunch of borderline retarded roid-freaks and Army reject sociopaths at bargain prices and give them state of the art weaponry and zero accountability. Tada.

But I'm sure we didn't hear the whole story. He approached them aggressively with glucose test strips and insulin syringes in close proximity.
2013-10-08 03:02:06 PM
1 votes:

offmymeds: Oooooohhhhhh...black man. Scaaaarrrryyy!


my sister tells a story of when she was five and wanted to go to the neighbor's yard/tree to get some plums.  She said that our uncle told her to be careful because there was a coloured man over there.  She said she climbed into the tree and was looking around, afraid of the coloured man.  A black man stopped to talk to her and she told him he needed to be careful because there was a coloured man out somewhere.  He smiled and asked her "What color is he?"  She said she wasn't sure, but she thought maybe purple.  Ah the innocence...
2013-10-08 02:59:35 PM
1 votes:

dark brew: HotWingConspiracy: Why do cops need to respond at all to a medical call?


SuperNinjaToad: When you call 911 COPS show up period.. even if you call requesting the fire department and SPECIFICALLY says it's for the kitten stuck up in the tree.


I've worked in three different 911 systems as a paramedic and the police only get dispatched if the nature of the call is or has the potential to be violent (shooting, stabbing, assault, etc), if the patient with a medical condition is reported to be combative or there is yelling heard in the background, on an overdose, for auto accidents, and if we request them for some other reason.  On the majority of the medical calls, the police do not get dispatched.

For this particular incident, the dispatcher may have heard yelling, the caller may have indicated the pt was combative, or it may have been dispatched as an overdose where police automatically get dispatched.  I certainly don't believe that the police showed up and shot the guy for no reason.  Whether they could have used other means to subdue him is certainly in question though.



Either you are dishonest or your city is different than mine...

True story...about 2 months ago  my 82 yr old neighbor fell down and couldn't get up . however she was able to call 911 saying she fell and requested help. No panic, no nothing.
Guess what? 3 cop cars showed up and THEN the FD showed up.

so cops DO show up even on NON VIOLENT events but because they are there things can potentially become violent even if it wasn't initially.
2013-10-08 02:53:32 PM
1 votes:

InitialCommentGuy: Sin_City_Superhero: InitialCommentGuy: What exactly is the issue here?

If I get in trouble, I don't get to have my buddies do the investigation.

A board of civilians and LEOs to take in information brought in by state investigators.  Again, how exactly are these guys somehow friends with the Waycross constabulary?


A board made up of civilians that want to be cops, and the actual cops that they work in direct contact with, are charged with investigating other cops. You don't see that there might be a conflict of interest here?
2013-10-08 02:40:53 PM
1 votes:

InitialCommentGuy: What exactly is the issue here?


If I get in trouble, I don't get to have my buddies do the investigation.
2013-10-08 02:35:49 PM
1 votes:

HotWingConspiracy: Why do cops need to respond at all to a medical call?



SuperNinjaToad: When you call 911 COPS show up period.. even if you call requesting the fire department and SPECIFICALLY says it's for the kitten stuck up in the tree.



I've worked in three different 911 systems as a paramedic and the police only get dispatched if the nature of the call is or has the potential to be violent (shooting, stabbing, assault, etc), if the patient with a medical condition is reported to be combative or there is yelling heard in the background, on an overdose, for auto accidents, and if we request them for some other reason.  On the majority of the medical calls, the police do not get dispatched.

For this particular incident, the dispatcher may have heard yelling, the caller may have indicated the pt was combative, or it may have been dispatched as an overdose where police automatically get dispatched.  I certainly don't believe that the police showed up and shot the guy for no reason.  Whether they could have used other means to subdue him is certainly in question though.
2013-10-08 02:23:54 PM
1 votes:

HotWingConspiracy: Why do cops need to respond at all to a medical call?

Don't believe the hype, being a cop is one of the easiest jobs on the planet. They generally have nothing to do. Boredom would actually explain a lot of their actions.


When you call 911 COPS show up period.. even if you call requesting the fire department and SPECIFICALLY says it's for the kitten stuck up in the tree.

.. and when the cops show up they will be in high adrenaline mode and automatically assume the kitten is actually a codename for an AK-47 armed burglar trying to sneak into your house that also happens to be a meth lab.
2013-10-08 02:14:48 PM
1 votes:

generallyso: They're lucky he was the only person hit. Usually when the police start shooting they hose down the entire block with lead.

[i.imgur.com image 500x282]
After the incident, police ordered residents to stay indoors, but from his window Goo could see dozens of yellow markers on the ground used to mark the stray bullets. While out surveying the damage, he counted five bullets in his entryway, a bullet hole in his garage door, two bullets hits his silver Lexus and another bullet grazed the hood of his Oldsmobile.

"We are lucky because our cars are drivable, unlike our neighbors'," he said. ...

"That's why we live here because it is safe," said the cardiologist technician. "It's ironic that the only violence we experienced here is from LAPD."


From a distance of less than 10 feet , the officers, Craig Matthews and Robert Sinishtaj, answered in unison; one shot nine times and the other seven.
...
But the officers also struck some, if not all, of the nine bystanders who were wounded.


[i.imgur.com image 850x473]


You know, I think I can pinpoint when "That" became "This". Remember back in the early 90's there was a bank robbery in So Cal where the perpetrators were dressed in Kevlar head to toe and carried some major weaponry? They mowed down the cops and civilians left and right and the cops weapons couldn't touch them. Finally a SWAT team was assembled and arrived at the scene and they had the firepower to take the two men down. The cops had felt completely vulnerable (they were) and totally inadequate (they were) to handle the situation and I think that scared every police department in the country. It started building from there. Yes, there were SWAT teams in existence prior to the incident, hell there was even a TV show about SWAT in the 70's, but they were rarely used up until then - they weren't the *routine* response unit. From that point on, they started getting called out on more and more and more incidences, and it's ramped up from there. That's how I remember it anyway.
2013-10-08 02:14:27 PM
1 votes:

Beerguy: exick: I really would like to hear the entirety of this story because none of this makes any sense whatsoever.

Exactly.

As usual, the truth is somewhere in between the Family's story and the Cops story.


The truth is not always "somewhere in the middle". It isn't a committee decision. Sometimes one person is telling the truth and another person is lying.
2013-10-08 02:09:49 PM
1 votes:

jjorsett: Another example of why cops should be required to wear video recording devices. Both to protect themselves against false accusations and to expose the ones that abuse their powers.


All that would happen is a lot of "the recording device malfunctioned" or "the video was lost/corrupted". Good cops and pigs alike are always weak when it comes to pointing the arm of the law back at themselves.
2013-10-08 02:08:38 PM
1 votes:
The Georgia Bureau of Investigation is reviewing the shooting and the officers involved are on paid leave.

Good news, folks...the police are investigating the police officers that are responsible for this. If the police determine that the police officers were out of line, then the police are sure to dicipline the police officers responsible.
2013-10-08 01:59:44 PM
1 votes:

gretzkyscores: The halcyon days of Officer Friendly


seattletimes.com
2013-10-08 01:55:02 PM
1 votes:
None of this makes any sense. I think we need to wait for the Hallmark Channel to show us what REALLY happened in their upcoming movie-of-the-week, SugarDaddy.
2013-10-08 01:54:37 PM
1 votes:

jjorsett: Another example of why cops should be required to wear video recording devices. Both to protect themselves against false accusations and to expose the ones that abuse their powers.


THIS

I find it offensive that the police union blocks this. Cameras (mostly) tell the truth. If cops are honest it would protect them from BS claims (as this one appears to be).
2013-10-08 01:51:14 PM
1 votes:
Diabetic issues can make people seem drunk, and sometime belligerent.  Never seen it go violent and threatening, though.

"He didn't have nothing in his hands at any time or period at all before they came, any time while they were here, anything. They just came in and shot him. He didn't say nothing, the police didn't say nothing, anything, it was like a silent movie. You couldn't hear anything, all you could hear were the gun shots go off and I seen them going into his body and he just fell down," cried Alcia Herron, Roberson's fiance."

Yeah, I don't buy that at all.  Cops may not always make the best decisions in a crisis, but they didn't just walk into an unknown situation, pull guns and kill him without threat, provocation, identification, or warning.
2013-10-08 01:50:00 PM
1 votes:

exick: I really would like to hear the entirety of this story because none of this makes any sense whatsoever.


In short: cops are stupid. Dumb farking pig sees someone they think is drunk or on drugs and uncooperative but is in insulin shock  Pig feels threatened and shoots victim dead.
2013-10-08 01:47:55 PM
1 votes:
I'll try to withhold judgement...

They could have tazed him right?! I mean we do arm our finest with LESS then lethal weapons so people do not have to die needlessly.

/cops are always scared for their lives
//maybe cause they know the bullshiat they get away with is going to catch up to them one day
2013-10-08 01:46:29 PM
1 votes:

Your Black Muslim Credit Union: Well clearly he shouldn't have been a large black man. Hasn't there been other cases of people with the beetus getting shot/tazed because they were acting strange.


I know there have been cases where people were tazed because they "didn't follow orders". Of course, they were in a diabetic coma at the time, but it was true they didn't follow orders.
2013-10-08 01:44:59 PM
1 votes:
Somebody, perhaps everybody, is not telling the whole truth here.
2013-10-08 01:42:09 PM
1 votes:

exick: I really would like to hear the entirety of this story because none of this makes any sense whatsoever.


I am sure this is all factually accurate and the complete chain of events with nothing left out or embellished to sell a particular ideological narrative.
2013-10-08 01:42:01 PM
1 votes:
Quaker muhfuggin' oats.

www.imfdb.org
2013-10-08 01:05:43 PM
1 votes:
Pigs
 
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