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(Reason Magazine)   Bad: You take too much diabetes medication and require medical attention. Good: Your fiancé is there to help and calls 911. Fark: The police show up at your door and shoot you dead   (reason.com ) divider line
    More: Fail, Anti-diabetic medication, first aids, Georgia Bureau of Investigation, Florida Times-Union, Daniel Herron  
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16564 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Oct 2013 at 1:39 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-08 02:06:38 PM  

gshepnyc: If cops don't start facing very, very serious consequences for these things, not only will they not stop, they will get worse.

When the police take a life, we need to start bringing them trial the same as we would with a civilian under the same circumstances. Let a jury decide if it was justified, not an internal review board. If the jury says it wasn't justified, let the cop go to prison.

Clearly, they can no longer be trusted to exercise good judgment on their own.


Cops could never be trusted in the first place. If they had a sense of duty they would join the army. If they were intelligent in the least they would have chosen a different career path.


Whats the fastest way to becoming a cop? Be a solid C student.
 
2013-10-08 02:07:30 PM  
Come at cops with knives? What do you want? Pity?
 
2013-10-08 02:08:14 PM  

borg: exick: I really would like to hear the entirety of this story because none of this makes any sense whatsoever.

In short: cops are stupid. Dumb farking pig sees someone they think is drunk or on drugs and uncooperative but is in insulin shock  Pig feels threatened and shoots victim dead.


^^This.  A cop walked into a situation with nothing other than "medical emergency" or possibly "overdose" for info, a guy moved toward the door and appeared aggressive and they thought he'd OD'd on bathsalts and was going full zombie.

gretzkyscores: Cannot be repeated enough: Never, EVER call the cops, or even talk to them. For ANYTHING. EVER.



Eh... pretty much this.  If you're actually IN a situation, don't call.  If you're reporting something that ALREADY HAPPENED, call them.  Police must walk into a totally begnign situation in order to be in anything remotely resembling control of themselves.
 
2013-10-08 02:08:38 PM  
The Georgia Bureau of Investigation is reviewing the shooting and the officers involved are on paid leave.

Good news, folks...the police are investigating the police officers that are responsible for this. If the police determine that the police officers were out of line, then the police are sure to dicipline the police officers responsible.
 
2013-10-08 02:09:49 PM  

jjorsett: Another example of why cops should be required to wear video recording devices. Both to protect themselves against false accusations and to expose the ones that abuse their powers.


All that would happen is a lot of "the recording device malfunctioned" or "the video was lost/corrupted". Good cops and pigs alike are always weak when it comes to pointing the arm of the law back at themselves.
 
2013-10-08 02:10:06 PM  
RickN99:  -- that sounds believable?

pretty sure that was sarcasm Sheldon...
 
2013-10-08 02:12:02 PM  
yet another deadly unregistered diabetic. How long until we ban diabetes altogether?
 
2013-10-08 02:12:30 PM  
I'm not getting it... is something missing? There has to be more. Otherwise, the fiance is describing a mafia hit.
 
2013-10-08 02:13:42 PM  

mike_d85: borg: exick: I really would like to hear the entirety of this story because none of this makes any sense whatsoever.

In short: cops are stupid. Dumb farking pig sees someone they think is drunk or on drugs and uncooperative but is in insulin shock  Pig feels threatened and shoots victim dead.

^^This.  A cop walked into a situation with nothing other than "medical emergency" or possibly "overdose" for info, a guy moved toward the door and appeared aggressive and they thought he'd OD'd on bathsalts and was going full zombie.

gretzkyscores: Cannot be repeated enough: Never, EVER call the cops, or even talk to them. For ANYTHING. EVER.


Eh... pretty much this.  If you're actually IN a situation, don't call.  If you're reporting something that ALREADY HAPPENED, call them.  Police must walk into a totally benign situation in order to be in anything remotely resembling control of themselves.


FTFM
 
2013-10-08 02:14:24 PM  
I'm about 75% cops are murderous pigs/25% cops were right. The biggest thing in my mind is, has anyone called Al or Jesse?
 
2013-10-08 02:14:27 PM  

Beerguy: exick: I really would like to hear the entirety of this story because none of this makes any sense whatsoever.

Exactly.

As usual, the truth is somewhere in between the Family's story and the Cops story.


The truth is not always "somewhere in the middle". It isn't a committee decision. Sometimes one person is telling the truth and another person is lying.
 
2013-10-08 02:14:48 PM  

generallyso: They're lucky he was the only person hit. Usually when the police start shooting they hose down the entire block with lead.

[i.imgur.com image 500x282]
After the incident, police ordered residents to stay indoors, but from his window Goo could see dozens of yellow markers on the ground used to mark the stray bullets. While out surveying the damage, he counted five bullets in his entryway, a bullet hole in his garage door, two bullets hits his silver Lexus and another bullet grazed the hood of his Oldsmobile.

"We are lucky because our cars are drivable, unlike our neighbors'," he said. ...

"That's why we live here because it is safe," said the cardiologist technician. "It's ironic that the only violence we experienced here is from LAPD."


From a distance of less than 10 feet , the officers, Craig Matthews and Robert Sinishtaj, answered in unison; one shot nine times and the other seven.
...
But the officers also struck some, if not all, of the nine bystanders who were wounded.


[i.imgur.com image 850x473]


You know, I think I can pinpoint when "That" became "This". Remember back in the early 90's there was a bank robbery in So Cal where the perpetrators were dressed in Kevlar head to toe and carried some major weaponry? They mowed down the cops and civilians left and right and the cops weapons couldn't touch them. Finally a SWAT team was assembled and arrived at the scene and they had the firepower to take the two men down. The cops had felt completely vulnerable (they were) and totally inadequate (they were) to handle the situation and I think that scared every police department in the country. It started building from there. Yes, there were SWAT teams in existence prior to the incident, hell there was even a TV show about SWAT in the 70's, but they were rarely used up until then - they weren't the *routine* response unit. From that point on, they started getting called out on more and more and more incidences, and it's ramped up from there. That's how I remember it anyway.
 
2013-10-08 02:14:55 PM  

generallyso: They're lucky he was the only person hit. Usually when the police start shooting they hose down the entire block with lead.

[i.imgur.com image 500x282]
After the incident, police ordered residents to stay indoors, but from his window Goo could see dozens of yellow markers on the ground used to mark the stray bullets. While out surveying the damage, he counted five bullets in his entryway, a bullet hole in his garage door, two bullets hits his silver Lexus and another bullet grazed the hood of his Oldsmobile.

"We are lucky because our cars are drivable, unlike our neighbors'," he said. ...

"That's why we live here because it is safe," said the cardiologist technician. "It's ironic that the only violence we experienced here is from LAPD."


From a distance of less than 10 feet , the officers, Craig Matthews and Robert Sinishtaj, answered in unison; one shot nine times and the other seven.
...
But the officers also struck some, if not all, of the nine bystanders who were wounded.


[i.imgur.com image 850x473]



The woman in that pickup truck was my friends housekeeper. She now doesn't need to work anymore...


/csb
 
2013-10-08 02:15:39 PM  

Oafmeel: yet another deadly unregistered diabetic. How long until we ban diabetes altogether?


The only solution is to give EVERYONE diabetes.

/pretty sure the food industry is already on that like white on high fructose rice syrup.
 
2013-10-08 02:16:49 PM  
The cops may very well be completely in the wrong here (impossible to say without knowing the actual facts surrounding the incident), but the girlfriend should have come up with a mildly believable story at the very least.
 
2013-10-08 02:17:09 PM  
Why do cops need to respond at all to a medical call?

Don't believe the hype, being a cop is one of the easiest jobs on the planet. They generally have nothing to do. Boredom would actually explain a lot of their actions.
 
2013-10-08 02:18:43 PM  

RickN99: Atypical Person Reading Fark: I find the story believable as written.

You do?  Cops open the door, walk into the room, nobody says anything.  The cops whip out guns, silently pick one of the room's occupants -- the cops must have agreed in advance to commit murder (unless they're psychic cops) -- and kill them for no reason at all.  That is what the mother says happens -- that sounds believable?


In the context of an increasingly violent Police mentality, it is perfectly believable. We had a cop in my town that just flat out executed a man in the street in broad daylight, shooting him in the back and all that happened was he was allowed to quit rather than face an inquiry. It was cold-blooded murder, and the Cop was never even charged. It was only a "chronic public inebriate" after all. That Cop incidentally, was allowed to apply for disability and now gets about $30,000 per year (plus COL increases) for the rest of his life, courtesy of the taxpayers.

No, the Police know they can do pretty much anything they please and never have to face any real scrutiny for their actions, no matter how egregious.
 
2013-10-08 02:19:30 PM  
Again, we have the 95% of the cops that are giving the good, decent 5% a bad name!
 
2013-10-08 02:20:28 PM  

anuran: The truth is not always "somewhere in the middle". It isn't a committee decision. Sometimes one person is telling the truth and another person is lying.


say it ain't so...
 
2013-10-08 02:21:17 PM  

oldfarthenry: Is this the GOP's alternative to Obamacare?



"Funny"ed. Would LOL again.
 
2013-10-08 02:22:47 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: The Georgia Bureau of Investigation is reviewing the shooting and the officers involved are on paid leave.

Good news, folks...the police are investigating the police officers that are responsible for this. If the police determine that the police officers were out of line, then the police are sure to dicipline the police officers responsible.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-10-08 02:23:54 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Why do cops need to respond at all to a medical call?

Don't believe the hype, being a cop is one of the easiest jobs on the planet. They generally have nothing to do. Boredom would actually explain a lot of their actions.


When you call 911 COPS show up period.. even if you call requesting the fire department and SPECIFICALLY says it's for the kitten stuck up in the tree.

.. and when the cops show up they will be in high adrenaline mode and automatically assume the kitten is actually a codename for an AK-47 armed burglar trying to sneak into your house that also happens to be a meth lab.
 
2013-10-08 02:24:43 PM  

Deathfrogg: We had a cop in my town that just flat out executed a man in the street in broad daylight, shooting him in the back and all that happened was he was allowed to quit rather than face an inquiry. It was cold-blooded murder, and the Cop was never even charged. It was only a "chronic public inebriate" after all. That Cop incidentally, was allowed to apply for disability and now gets about $30,000 per year (plus COL increases) for the rest of his life, courtesy of the taxpayers.


Could you dig up an article about that?
 
2013-10-08 02:24:49 PM  
Obligatory...
 
2013-10-08 02:26:01 PM  
Obligatory...

imageshack.com
 
2013-10-08 02:26:28 PM  

Daffydil: anuran: The truth is not always "somewhere in the middle". It isn't a committee decision. Sometimes one person is telling the truth and another person is lying.

say it ain't so...


Remember what Obi-Wan said about points of view?
 
2013-10-08 02:27:19 PM  

jjorsett: Another example of why cops should be required to wear video recording devices. Both to protect themselves against false accusations and to expose the ones that abuse their powers.


Yeah. That will happen. In exactly the same random way that dashboard cameras have technical glitches.
 
2013-10-08 02:29:31 PM  

give me doughnuts: Remember what Obi-Wan said about points of view?


no...

/now give me doughnuts...
 
2013-10-08 02:30:05 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: The Georgia Bureau of Investigation is reviewing the shooting and the officers involved are on paid leave.

Good news, folks...the police are investigating the police officers that are responsible for this. If the police determine that the police officers were out of line, then the police are sure to discipline the police officers responsible.


Upon review the GBI serves as a state version of Internal Affairs for bias crimes, force claims, and dirty cop investigations for small departments such as Waycross.  They seem to use civilians as part of the panel per normal IAD procedures in these cases (at least in my state).

What exactly is the issue here?
 
2013-10-08 02:35:40 PM  

HangMan: Quaker muhfuggin' oats.

[www.imfdb.org image 400x225]


Just watched "Hard Target" last week, so I really got a kick out of this reply.
 
2013-10-08 02:35:49 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Why do cops need to respond at all to a medical call?



SuperNinjaToad: When you call 911 COPS show up period.. even if you call requesting the fire department and SPECIFICALLY says it's for the kitten stuck up in the tree.



I've worked in three different 911 systems as a paramedic and the police only get dispatched if the nature of the call is or has the potential to be violent (shooting, stabbing, assault, etc), if the patient with a medical condition is reported to be combative or there is yelling heard in the background, on an overdose, for auto accidents, and if we request them for some other reason.  On the majority of the medical calls, the police do not get dispatched.

For this particular incident, the dispatcher may have heard yelling, the caller may have indicated the pt was combative, or it may have been dispatched as an overdose where police automatically get dispatched.  I certainly don't believe that the police showed up and shot the guy for no reason.  Whether they could have used other means to subdue him is certainly in question though.
 
2013-10-08 02:36:48 PM  

give me doughnuts: Remember what Obi-Wan said about points of view?


Everybody has one and they all stink, except for mine.
 
2013-10-08 02:36:52 PM  

generallyso: Deathfrogg: We had a cop in my town that just flat out executed a man in the street in broad daylight, shooting him in the back and all that happened was he was allowed to quit rather than face an inquiry. It was cold-blooded murder, and the Cop was never even charged. It was only a "chronic public inebriate" after all. That Cop incidentally, was allowed to apply for disability and now gets about $30,000 per year (plus COL increases) for the rest of his life, courtesy of the taxpayers.

Could you dig up an article about that?


Even better, theres a vid.

Witnesses to the murder were saying that the dead man hadn't even responded to the officers commands and had only turned his head a little when the Cop opened fire. The knife was closed (Buck 119 folding knife) and it came out later that the Cop and the dead man had had some words earlier in the day that had made the Cop feel like a punk. This guy was executed for embarrassing a Police Officer. Officer Birk had already stated his intention to "get this guy" before this encounter.
It was a deliberate act of murder.
 
2013-10-08 02:37:08 PM  
 
2013-10-08 02:37:55 PM  
Announcer: Has this ever happened to you?
(Shows an old lady falling down from the top of the the stair, getting up and the falling down another flight of stairs to the ground floor.)
Announcer: From today, dialling 999 won't get you the emergency services. And that's not the only thing that's changing. Nicer ambulances, faster response times and better-looking drivers mean they're not just "the" emergency services - they're "your" emergency services. So, remember the new number:
Announcer: [singing number]: 0118 999 881 999 119 725...3
Announcer: That's...
Announcer: [singing number]: 0118 999 881 999 119 725...3
Old Woman: Hello, I've had a bit of a tumble...
(Shows that Moss is sat there watching the advert)
 Moss: Well, that's easy to remember! [singing number] 0118 999 881 999 119 725...3
 
2013-10-08 02:37:56 PM  

Cyclometh: An overdose of insulin can make people behave very illogically, but combative? Anyone in the throes of a sugar crash that bad is going to be barely capable of standing.

My money is on the cops just being trigger happy; we are talking about a poor black family in Georgia here.


Tell that to my father. If his sugar crashes (or he has too much insulin) he gets very angry, defiant and combative. Try to get a juice in him so his sugar gets back up and he'll throw it at you, spit out, scream, curse you out. All kinds of fun.  Hell, my dad once bloodied my nose while bringing him back up from a crash. He just flailed his arms and pow, crimson mask from the nose down.

Not everyone does the same things when their sugar crashes but you can definitely have that sort of reaction. And yes, they do look drunk.

No excuse for the cop, they should be able to figure things out.
 
2013-10-08 02:38:14 PM  

Honest Bender: Diabetic while black.  He should have known better.


Around here, that only amounts to a Tasering and beating. They're badass in Georgia.
 
2013-10-08 02:39:03 PM  
"Better to be safe, we just want to go home at the end of the evening and felt threatened because this was a clear opportunity to trap and murder us.  You see we're in a war and there are insurgents all around us trying to take us out.  I see a lot of guys go out with ambulances and get shot down cause its actually a plot to kill cops!  I mean... I've never actually seen that cause it doesn't happen, but we're warriors who need to be constantly vigilant against assassination.  So we plugged his comatose ass!" *High-Fives buddy*

We train these people to be in a constant state of fear and aggression despite our streets being safer than ever.  This needs to change.
 
2013-10-08 02:40:49 PM  

phojo1946: Again, we have the 95% of the cops that are giving the good, decent 5% a bad name!


but since those 95% look the other way...they can't be trusted either.  In my bro-in-law's precinct, they had a cop caught helping gang members avoid getting picked up.  He was essentially an informant for gangs.  They got rid of him, no punishment really, just lost his job..but i think he might get it back.  He was actively helping keep dangerous people on the street armed with nothing to live for that could potentially kill his co-workers free instead of in jail.  If anything they are arming themselves because they KNOW they have warrants for crimes with long jail sentences.  How he isn't in a shallow hole or out at sea is completely beyond me.
 
2013-10-08 02:40:53 PM  

InitialCommentGuy: What exactly is the issue here?


If I get in trouble, I don't get to have my buddies do the investigation.
 
2013-10-08 02:41:12 PM  

Honest Bender: Diabetic while black.  He should have known better.


Oooooohhhhhh...black man. Scaaaarrrryyy!
 
2013-10-08 02:43:09 PM  

Headso: InitialCommentGuy: What exactly is the issue here?


GBI is no watchdog over local law enforcement


"Unlike State Police units that have the power of original jurisdiction, GBI agents cannot initiate investigations without the permission of local authorities, such as judges, sheriffs or district attorneys. That approach places a premium on cooperation and appeasement. "

As this is an old article, and the investigation has already been initiated (implying granted jurisdiction) seems like GBI is covered.  Gov. Perdue?  No reference after 1997?  We're looking at an article at least 2 years old and most likely far older as the Bill Torrance investigation is old, old news.

Did you actually read your article?
 
2013-10-08 02:46:13 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: InitialCommentGuy: What exactly is the issue here?

If I get in trouble, I don't get to have my buddies do the investigation.


A board of civilians and LEOs to take in information brought in by state investigators.  Again, how exactly are these guys somehow friends with the Waycross constabulary?
 
2013-10-08 02:46:37 PM  

silvervial: They mowed down the cops and civilians left and right and the cops weapons couldn't touch them

.

Actually, 11 cops and 7 civies were injured, but only the two robbers were killed.
 
2013-10-08 02:48:58 PM  

surewewang: phojo1946: Again, we have the 95% of the cops that are giving the good, decent 5% a bad name!

but since those 95% look the other way...they can't be trusted either.


Go back and re-read that post. It ain't sayin' what you think it is...
 
2013-10-08 02:52:09 PM  

InitialCommentGuy: Headso: InitialCommentGuy: What exactly is the issue here?


GBI is no watchdog over local law enforcement

"Unlike State Police units that have the power of original jurisdiction, GBI agents cannot initiate investigations without the permission of local authorities, such as judges, sheriffs or district attorneys. That approach places a premium on cooperation and appeasement. "

As this is an old article, and the investigation has already been initiated (implying granted jurisdiction) seems like GBI is covered.  Gov. Perdue?  No reference after 1997?  We're looking at an article at least 2 years old and most likely far older as the Bill Torrance investigation is old, old news.

Did you actually read your article?


Yeah  maybe it is all cleaned  up and reorged  and they are now a competent watchdog over local law enforcement.
 
2013-10-08 02:53:13 PM  
Wait, why did police respond to a medical emergency at all? Clearly there are missing details.

If I'm sick and dying I don't need a SWAT team.
 
2013-10-08 02:53:32 PM  

InitialCommentGuy: Sin_City_Superhero: InitialCommentGuy: What exactly is the issue here?

If I get in trouble, I don't get to have my buddies do the investigation.

A board of civilians and LEOs to take in information brought in by state investigators.  Again, how exactly are these guys somehow friends with the Waycross constabulary?


A board made up of civilians that want to be cops, and the actual cops that they work in direct contact with, are charged with investigating other cops. You don't see that there might be a conflict of interest here?
 
2013-10-08 02:59:35 PM  

dark brew: HotWingConspiracy: Why do cops need to respond at all to a medical call?


SuperNinjaToad: When you call 911 COPS show up period.. even if you call requesting the fire department and SPECIFICALLY says it's for the kitten stuck up in the tree.


I've worked in three different 911 systems as a paramedic and the police only get dispatched if the nature of the call is or has the potential to be violent (shooting, stabbing, assault, etc), if the patient with a medical condition is reported to be combative or there is yelling heard in the background, on an overdose, for auto accidents, and if we request them for some other reason.  On the majority of the medical calls, the police do not get dispatched.

For this particular incident, the dispatcher may have heard yelling, the caller may have indicated the pt was combative, or it may have been dispatched as an overdose where police automatically get dispatched.  I certainly don't believe that the police showed up and shot the guy for no reason.  Whether they could have used other means to subdue him is certainly in question though.



Either you are dishonest or your city is different than mine...

True story...about 2 months ago  my 82 yr old neighbor fell down and couldn't get up . however she was able to call 911 saying she fell and requested help. No panic, no nothing.
Guess what? 3 cop cars showed up and THEN the FD showed up.

so cops DO show up even on NON VIOLENT events but because they are there things can potentially become violent even if it wasn't initially.
 
2013-10-08 03:02:06 PM  

offmymeds: Oooooohhhhhh...black man. Scaaaarrrryyy!


my sister tells a story of when she was five and wanted to go to the neighbor's yard/tree to get some plums.  She said that our uncle told her to be careful because there was a coloured man over there.  She said she climbed into the tree and was looking around, afraid of the coloured man.  A black man stopped to talk to her and she told him he needed to be careful because there was a coloured man out somewhere.  He smiled and asked her "What color is he?"  She said she wasn't sure, but she thought maybe purple.  Ah the innocence...
 
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