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(International Business Times)   The US defaulted on its debt once before, in 1979, costing the taxpayers billions of dollars. A preview of what's to come?   (ibtimes.com) divider line 105
    More: Scary, United States, Moody's Analytics, Treasury bill, United States Department of the Treasury, lessons, Senate Budget Committee  
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2640 clicks; posted to Politics » on 08 Oct 2013 at 7:59 AM (28 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-08 03:00:36 AM
Too bad the damage has already been done. Even if Boehner allows a vote in time and it passes, our credit rating will get cut again. Plus, other countries will be more likely to consider no longer using USD as the reserve currency, which will permanently damage our economy.

I hope you choke on dicks, GOP.
 
2013-10-08 03:30:25 AM
They've been defaulting on the debt every year for quite a while. You know how they're broke every November or so, then come up with money at the last minute? They get the money by declaring the federal workers' pension fund null and void, which allows them to borrow more money and still stay under the debt limit. Then, when the new fiscal year starts, they re-fund the pension. Our entire economy is based on accounting fraud and gimmicks.
 
2013-10-08 03:40:34 AM

DrPainMD: They've been defaulting on the debt every year for quite a while. You know how they're broke every November or so, then come up with money at the last minute? They get the money by declaring the federal workers' pension fund null and void, which allows them to borrow more money and still stay under the debt limit. Then, when the new fiscal year starts, they re-fund the pension. Our entire economy is based on accounting fraud and gimmicks.


Doesn't the fiscal year start in October?
 
2013-10-08 03:41:00 AM
That's what happens when a technical glitch causes a default. Now imagine doing it on purpose. It's one thing to go up 60 basis points to reflect risks inherent in a system. It's another when the people involved are unreliable.
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2013-10-08 06:09:13 AM

themindiswatching: Too bad the damage has already been done. Even if Boehner allows a vote in time and it passes, our credit rating will get cut again. Plus, other countries will be more likely to consider no longer using USD as the reserve currency, which will permanently damage our economy.

I hope you choke on dicks, GOP.


THIS ISN'T A POLITICAL GAME!

It's a strategy.  The Republicans have said it out loud, they want to "bring the house down" to force a re-write of the constitution (Senator Lee). They want a financial collapse.  Read the book the Shock Doctrine.  They (and corporations) create problems then use those problems as justification eliminate controls to give the wealthy access to public wealth. It's just that simple. They have actively proposed auctioning off public lands to logging companies, selling off public buildings to businesses, etc. etc.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  What Bachmann and other Republicans are doing is treasonous.  They are deliberately harming the nation for profit and they're openly admitting it.  Bachmann admitted they wanted to shutdown the US government.  There are now articles surfacing that this shutdown was planned by the GOP long ago.  They want to cripple the US government to corrupt and break the regulatory controls the government has on corporations and the wealthy.  They want to hamstring our government's ability to enforce environmental laws

trea·son
ˈtrēzən/
noun
1.the crime of betraying one's country, esp. by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government.



They've been breaking these controls for years by de-funding various agencies.  They have openly admitted they want to outright eliminate the EPA, The department of education and other government agencies.  Now they want to cripple our nations financial status in order to eliminate clean air laws and other policies for corporations.

They've tried to eliminate federal control over states but have failed.  They did this to break the separation of church and state and to eliminate the federal government's clean air & water standards so that corporations can openly pollute and public schools can be converted to Christian Academies.  This isn't fantasy, they publicly talk about these things.  They're just careful with the phasing of their statements.

Our country is being overrun by organized extremists wearing the clothing of politicians.

The sad part is that they have convinced millions of people to elect them into office and create policies which will poison them and their children.  To enact policies which ship US jobs overseas.  To enact policies which will allow contaminated food to be sold.
 
2013-10-08 08:05:14 AM
1979 was a computer glitch. This would be willful and deliberate.
 
2013-10-08 08:05:58 AM
I'm not sure how this is going to end...but I have to believe that the money men backing the GOP will realize that a default will ruin them along with the rest of the country...and that they'll do something to stop the madness.
 
2013-10-08 08:07:47 AM

Weaver95: I'm not sure how this is going to end...but I have to believe that the money men backing the GOP will realize that a default will ruin them along with the rest of the country...and that they'll do something to stop the madness.


The problem is that the money men aren't in charge anymore.
i575.photobucket.com
 
2013-10-08 08:08:19 AM
But didn't you see the polls, majority of those polled support NOT raising the debt ceiling. We must do what the populous wishes.

//God, get me off this crazy train, why is the polling public so damn stupid.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/10/08/fox-news-poll-majority-wo ul d-vote-against-raising-debt-ceiling/


//Saw a nbc poll yesterday that was 44% against raising it and 22% for raising it.
 
2013-10-08 08:08:58 AM
This whole budget, debt ceiling is clearly the Democrats and Obama's fault, yet everyone seems to be blaming the Republicans and Boehner. It's time America demand that this President come to the negotiating table and end this charade.

If this whole Obamacare debacle had not been come to fruition, NONE of this would have ever happened.
 
2013-10-08 08:10:41 AM

Pick: This whole budget, debt ceiling is clearly the Democrats and Obama's fault, yet everyone seems to be blaming the Republicans and Boehner. It's time America demand that this President come to the negotiating table and end this charade.

If this whole Obamacare debacle had not been come to fruition, NONE of this would have ever happened.


Weak. You're just phoning it in now.
 
2013-10-08 08:11:29 AM
Is Subby suggesting teabaggers can learn from past experience?
 
2013-10-08 08:12:03 AM

Pick: This whole budget, debt ceiling is clearly the Democrats and Obama's fault, yet everyone seems to be blaming the Republicans and Boehner. It's time America demand that this President come to the negotiating table and end this charade.

If this whole Obamacare debacle had not been come to fruition, NONE of this would have ever happened.


[getaloadofthisguy.jpg]
 
2013-10-08 08:12:13 AM

Pick: This whole budget, debt ceiling is clearly the Democrats and Obama's fault, yet everyone seems to be blaming the Republicans and Boehner. It's time America demand that this President come to the negotiating table and end this charade.

If this whole Obamacare debacle had not been come to fruition, NONE of this would have ever happened.


What Obamacare debacle?  What other funding for existing laws and mandates do you consider a debacle?  Is it just the ACA?
 
2013-10-08 08:13:05 AM

Pick: This whole budget, debt ceiling is clearly the Democrats and Obama's fault, yet everyone seems to be blaming the Republicans and Boehner. It's time America demand that this President come to the negotiating table and end this charade.

If this whole Obamacare debacle had not been come to fruition, NONE of this would have ever happened.


Citation(s) needed arsehole.
 
2013-10-08 08:14:13 AM
Pick:

Goodbye, retard.  Plonk.
 
2013-10-08 08:15:56 AM

Ricardo Klement: That's what happens when a technical glitch causes a default. Now imagine doing it on purpose. It's one thing to go up 60 basis points to reflect risks inherent in a system. It's another when the people involved are unreliable.


The people involved are perfectly reliable.  Tea partiers  want the nation to default.  They  want to harm the national economy.
 
2013-10-08 08:17:05 AM

Weaver95: I'm not sure how this is going to end...but I have to believe that the money men backing the GOP will realize that a default will ruin them along with the rest of the country...and that they'll do something to stop the madness.


Which money men? Because the Chamber of Commerce doesn't have a voice there anymore. They get funding from Randian billionaires and backwoods yokels, and default is perfectly fine for both of them.
 
2013-10-08 08:20:34 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Weaver95: I'm not sure how this is going to end...but I have to believe that the money men backing the GOP will realize that a default will ruin them along with the rest of the country...and that they'll do something to stop the madness.

Which money men? Because the Chamber of Commerce doesn't have a voice there anymore. They get funding from Randian billionaires and backwoods yokels, and default is perfectly fine for both of them.


I hope that it doesn't work out that way. It would be very bad for us.
 
2013-10-08 08:24:51 AM

Weaver95: HotWingConspiracy: Weaver95: I'm not sure how this is going to end...but I have to believe that the money men backing the GOP will realize that a default will ruin them along with the rest of the country...and that they'll do something to stop the madness.

Which money men? Because the Chamber of Commerce doesn't have a voice there anymore. They get funding from Randian billionaires and backwoods yokels, and default is perfectly fine for both of them.

I hope that it doesn't work out that way. It would be very bad for us.


Neither side can blink, so it's happening.

If some sort of procedural tricks prove to be unsuccessful in the house, Obama will have to do something constitutionally questionable to protect our interests and then the GOP will move to impeach. It is written.
 
2013-10-08 08:25:16 AM
This whole thing is coming from the 4% under the 1%, and they sincerely believe they will get thru it without harm.
They will not. And the 1% will be the winners. 99% losers....
 
2013-10-08 08:26:18 AM

Weaver95: I'm not sure how this is going to end...but I have to believe that the money men backing the GOP will realize that a default will ruin them along with the rest of the country...and that they'll do something to stop the madness.


Which madness are you talking about? Holding the debt ceiling hostage or debting our way into the poor house?
 
2013-10-08 08:27:58 AM
Republicans need to be killed off. Its the only way to fix this country
 
2013-10-08 08:29:45 AM

Pharque-it: This whole thing is coming from the 4% under the 1%, and they sincerely believe they will get thru it without harm.
They will not. And the 1% will be the winners. 99% losers....


Think long game. The 4% have plenty of cash on hand. When the values of everything from real estate to corporations take a hit, they'll be cheaper to buy. 10 or 15 years from now, after we've recovered, the 4% will be significantly richer.
 
2013-10-08 08:30:41 AM

Pick: This whole budget, debt ceiling is clearly the Democrats and Obama's fault, yet everyone seems to be blaming the Republicans and Boehner. It's time America demand that this President come to the negotiating table and end this charade.

If this whole Obamacare debacle had not been come to fruition, NONE of this would have ever happened.


STFU
 
2013-10-08 08:35:37 AM

Notabunny: Pharque-it: This whole thing is coming from the 4% under the 1%, and they sincerely believe they will get thru it without harm.
They will not. And the 1% will be the winners. 99% losers....

Think long game. The 4% have plenty of cash on hand. When the values of everything from real estate to corporations take a hit, they'll be cheaper to buy. 10 or 15 years from now, after we've recovered, the 4% will be significantly richer.


The 1% has even more cash (assets). The have MUCH more buying power than the 4%. The 4% is clearly managed by the 1%, and they have bought into this idea to a level beyond stupidity.
 
2013-10-08 08:35:48 AM

Weaver95: but I have to believe that the money men backing the GOP will realize that a default will ruin them along with the rest of the country...and that they'll do something to stop the madness


You can believe it all you want, they have no more control over the likes of Cruz and his flunkies than the officials the monied interests bought who are currently stuck in the chamber with them.

The GOP set this ball rolling back in the 70s when they opened up the party to every religious and social issue nutjob in the country in the name of inflating their vote capacity. It worked just fine, but as was predicted by GOP insiders at the time, it got out of control and now the people they've been mindlessly pandering to are demanding their seat at the table and they're getting it.

A small number of lunatics now have the GOP juggernaut by the proverbial balls and they're parading it around like a prize and the traditional backers have no more control over them than the traditional reps that are being dragged around the stage.

Unless the "normal" people in the GOP suck it up and just do the right thing regardless of the political impact to themselves, we are all well and truly farked. We are currently beholden to the morality and conscience of people like John Boehner who need to tell the teabaggers it's time to STFU and do what's right now matter how it impacts them personally.

In other words, we are in a lot of trouble. The entire country is currently beholden to people who believe that it's better to destroy everything than to not get what they want. A group of people who hate the fact that we're a democracy and that we have to work together as a society. Lunatics. Utter lunatics.
 
2013-10-08 08:36:56 AM

Pick: This whole budget, debt ceiling is clearly the Democrats and Obama's fault, yet everyone seems to be blaming the Republicans and Boehner. It's time America demand that this President come to the negotiating table and end this charade.

If this whole Obamacare debacle had not been come to fruition, NONE of this would have ever happened.


2/10, Mainly for the use of "charade."

The last debt ceiling debacle, Boehner is on record saying he got 98% of what he wanted.

The current bill bouncing back and forth between the houses is continuing 2012's funding, with sequestration in place, which is less than the Senate's proposed budget.

Moreover, the Senate has asked Boehner to send House members for a budget conference to reconcile the two budgets 18 times since March, even though he explicitly said that is what he would do back in March before the Senate passed their budget.

The House has tried to repeal the PPACA almost 50 times and got nowhere.  The public, when asked directly about what the PPACA does, like what is included in the bill, but hate the name.

The blame for what happens to our economy in the coming weeks only has one place to land.
 
2013-10-08 08:37:53 AM

tfresh: Weaver95: I'm not sure how this is going to end...but I have to believe that the money men backing the GOP will realize that a default will ruin them along with the rest of the country...and that they'll do something to stop the madness.

Which madness are you talking about? Holding the debt ceiling hostage or debting our way into the poor house?



The madness of people like yourself, who for some reason think the former has a single, solitary goddamn thing to do with the latter.  The madness of people who think that refusing to pay a bill improves your credit and reduces your debt.  In short, the madness of morons, and the inexorable tide of cretindom drowning the damn country.
 
2013-10-08 08:38:16 AM

Pick: This whole budget, debt ceiling is clearly the Democrats and Obama's fault, yet everyone seems to be blaming the Republicans and Boehner. It's time America demand that this President come to the negotiating table and end this charade.

If this whole Obamacare debacle had not been come to fruition, NONE of this would have ever happened.




They both share blame for grandstanding.
If either party gave a damn about the debt ceiling then they wouldn't have gone on vacation when there was arm twisting to do.

I think the republicans do end up holding the bag on this one because they threw Obama into what he thinks is a briar patch. He's been blurring the lines between executive and legislative power and now wants to get a hand on the purse strings.
A financial disaster, blamed on his opponents, gives him the perfect excuse.
Which is probably why he's spending a lot of time not-negotiating with Ted Cruze (who holds no actual rank and has only played one note from the start) rather than speaking with Boehner. He can fire off a lot of rhetoric and watch Rome burn just long enough to gain a long term victory for his party.

The republicans should have smelled that trap and, after not being able to negotiate obamacare, asked for something outrageous that was not related (like getting rid to the NFA or opening up a bunch of oil fields and coal plants).
Obama would say he's not negotiating that either, but it would make it clearer that he is the one who wants a default.

/If he cared at all about avoiding problems, he could have taken the delay offer.
/its a minor rescheduling for such a major program set to run for all eternity.
/and, in its current technical state, it could use the time to resolve bugs.
/it was politically more profitable to run around putting shutdown signs on things.
 
2013-10-08 08:38:35 AM
Jokes on you Rich republicans.

I don't HAVE any money!
 
2013-10-08 08:39:03 AM

Rhino_man: Weaver95: I'm not sure how this is going to end...but I have to believe that the money men backing the GOP will realize that a default will ruin them along with the rest of the country...and that they'll do something to stop the madness.

The problem is that the money men aren't in charge anymore.


Or they are in charge and the default is the goal.
 
2013-10-08 08:39:40 AM

way south: They both share blame for grandstanding.


No.
 
2013-10-08 08:42:31 AM

tfresh: Weaver95: I'm not sure how this is going to end...but I have to believe that the money men backing the GOP will realize that a default will ruin them along with the rest of the country...and that they'll do something to stop the madness.

Which madness are you talking about? Holding the debt ceiling hostage or debting our way into the poor house?


The madness is playing games like this when we're still in a slow recovery. Keep this shiat up and you'll see the rest of the nation start moving back to recession. fark with the debt ceiling, you'll see potential global catastrophe.

Retards elected a bunch of true-believer zealots to the House. We're all farked unless Boehner grows a spine and calls a vote on clean CR and clean debt ceiling. The problem here? Boehner is over his head: he's trying to play both sides and he's not smart enough or crafty enough to pull it off. His caucus is out of control and is being driven over the cliff by the teabaggers yet he seems blissfully unaware of what the consequences of that really are.

The reality is, should Boehner call the vote today, that it would pass.
 
2013-10-08 08:42:47 AM

skozlaw: Weaver95: but I have to believe that the money men backing the GOP will realize that a default will ruin them along with the rest of the country...and that they'll do something to stop the madness

You can believe it all you want, they have no more control over the likes of Cruz and his flunkies than the officials the monied interests bought who are currently stuck in the chamber with them.

In other words, we are in a lot of trouble. The entire country is currently beholden to people who believe that it's better to destroy everything than to not get what they want. A group of people who hate the fact that we're a democracy and that we have to work together as a society. Lunatics. Utter lunatics.


You're right. Utter lunatics. Where most of you have it wrong is that this is not just a GOP F up. Can we at least take a break from senseless partisan bashing and look at the fact that we're continuously having to raise the debt ceiling?
 
2013-10-08 08:44:01 AM

deanis: Pick: This whole budget, debt ceiling is clearly the Democrats and Obama's fault, yet everyone seems to be blaming the Republicans and Boehner. It's time America demand that this President come to the negotiating table and end this charade.

If this whole Obamacare debacle had not been come to fruition, NONE of this would have ever happened.

Citation(s) needed arsehole.


Well, if it weren't for Obamacare (especially the Obama part!), the Republicans wouldn't have become this deranged. Unless there was a blow job somewhere. Or another Democrat in the White House who did Democrat things. But other than that, it's because of Obamacare - especially the Obama part!
 
2013-10-08 08:44:51 AM

tfresh: Can we at least take a break from senseless partisan bashing and look at the fact that we're continuously having to raise the debt ceiling?


Get rid of the debt ceiling. Bring back the Gephardt rule. Be done with this immature bullsh*t.
 
2013-10-08 08:45:34 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Weaver95: I'm not sure how this is going to end...but I have to believe that the money men backing the GOP will realize that a default will ruin them along with the rest of the country...and that they'll do something to stop the madness.

Which money men? Because the Chamber of Commerce doesn't have a voice there anymore. They get funding from Randian billionaires and backwoods yokels, and default is perfectly fine for both of them.


Btw, if the money men can see it coming they'll position themselves to 4x their wealth by shorting the US. A financial collapse is a gold mine IF you can see it coming AND you got the mibility to position yourself.
 
2013-10-08 08:45:40 AM

tfresh: Where most of you have it wrong is that this is not just a GOP F up


you are lying
 
2013-10-08 08:46:03 AM
Considering that we redraw the line in the sand with each fiscal year, we need to just do away with the debt ceiling. Unfortunately, an honest discussion of what we need to spend, what we can cut, and how we can generate revenue for the federal government appears to be beyond the capacity of Congress the GOP at this point.
 
2013-10-08 08:46:38 AM
So, a default triggers a cost on the rough order of 100 times greater than the amount of the default?

Ick.
 
2013-10-08 08:47:18 AM

Wasteland: tfresh: Weaver95: I'm not sure how this is going to end...but I have to believe that the money men backing the GOP will realize that a default will ruin them along with the rest of the country...and that they'll do something to stop the madness.

Which madness are you talking about? Holding the debt ceiling hostage or debting our way into the poor house?


The madness of people like yourself, who for some reason think the former has a single, solitary goddamn thing to do with the latter.  The madness of people who think that refusing to pay a bill improves your credit and reduces your debt.  In short, the madness of morons, and the inexorable tide of cretindom drowning the damn country.


Who say I'm this person you think I am? Is holding the debt ceiling hostage bad? Yes. Is continuing to constantly add more and more debt bad as well? Yes. My problem is the madness of people like yourself, who just want to focus on the stupidity of a single group instead of looking at the overall problem.
 
2013-10-08 08:47:50 AM

Pick: This whole budget, debt ceiling is clearly the Democrats and Obama's fault, yet everyone seems to be blaming the Republicans and Boehner. It's time America demand that this President come to the negotiating table and end this charade.

If this whole Obamacare debacle had not been come to fruition, NONE of this would have ever happened.


www.mcarterbrown.com
 
2013-10-08 08:47:54 AM

way south: He's been blurring the lines between executive and legislative power and now wants to get a hand on the purse strings.


I don't even know what this means.  Can you explain?
 
2013-10-08 08:48:17 AM

Notabunny: Pharque-it: This whole thing is coming from the 4% under the 1%, and they sincerely believe they will get thru it without harm.
They will not. And the 1% will be the winners. 99% losers....

Think long game. The 4% have plenty of cash on hand. When the values of everything from real estate to corporations take a hit, they'll be cheaper to buy. 10 or 15 years from now, after we've recovered, the 4% will be significantly richer.


The only thing better than having more money than god is to become god.
 
2013-10-08 08:48:38 AM

Weaver95: I'm not sure how this is going to end...but I have to believe that the money men backing the GOP will realize that a default will ruin them along with the rest of the country...and that they'll do something to stop the madness.


There are probably many who want a crash. If you are prepared for it, an economic crash can make you obscenely rich. Just have a lot of cash and you can buy investments for pennies on the dollar. Also if the US has to pay way more for its borrowing, then US treasuries become a good place to put money.
 
2013-10-08 08:51:28 AM

tfresh: Who say I'm this person you think I am? Is holding the debt ceiling hostage bad? Yes. Is continuing to constantly add more and more debt bad as well? Yes. My problem is the madness of people like yourself, who just want to focus on the stupidity of a single group instead of looking at the overall problem.


raising the debt limit has literally nothing to do with adding more debt, hth
 
2013-10-08 08:51:45 AM

Befuddled: Weaver95: I'm not sure how this is going to end...but I have to believe that the money men backing the GOP will realize that a default will ruin them along with the rest of the country...and that they'll do something to stop the madness.

There are probably many who want a crash. If you are prepared for it, an economic crash can make you obscenely rich. Just have a lot of cash and you can buy investments for pennies on the dollar. Also if the US has to pay way more for its borrowing, then US treasuries become a good place to put money.


I'm sure glad I bought all that gold!
 
2013-10-08 08:53:01 AM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Considering that we redraw the line in the sand with each fiscal year, we need to just do away with the debt ceiling. Unfortunately, an honest discussion of what we need to spend, what we can cut, and how we can generate revenue for the federal government appears to be beyond the capacity of Congress the GOP at this point.


How about we actually pay attention to the line in the sand? Why can't that be an option?
 
2013-10-08 08:53:50 AM

tfresh: You're right. Utter lunatics. Where most of you have it wrong is that this is not just a GOP F up. Can we at least take a break from senseless partisan bashing and look at the fact that we're continuously having to raise the debt ceiling?


OMG, we've been continually raising the debt ceiling since 1940 or so. Its completely unsustainable, we're going to turn into Japan or something.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
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