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(Slate)   Nebraska rules 16-year-old girl too immature to get abortion, plenty mature to raise a child   (slate.com) divider line 180
    More: Asinine, Nebraska Supreme Court, parental involvement, abortions, foster children  
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3224 clicks; posted to Politics » on 07 Oct 2013 at 5:18 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



180 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-10-08 02:17:02 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Greek: To all the slut shamers in this forum- and there are quite a few- take note of the total situation here. The girl first asked for the abortion at a hearing to terminate her parents' rights. In other words, this girl grew up in a very abusive household, one that she only recently was able to get away from. Girls in those sorts of situations generally are very high risk for getting pregnant. First, it's unlikely that she got anything in the way of real, reasonable sex education. Second, she was probably (even if subconsciously) looking for someone to love her, and was thus VERY vulnerable to getting involved with boys whose motives are not exactly pure. This is a girl who has been failed many times by many different people who were supposed to love her, care for her, nurture her, and teach her to do the same. Then, she's likely been failed many times by the courts, by social workers who mean well but are overburdened because politicians think they cost too much, and all sorts of other folks. They even, apparently, placed her in a foster home that would be likely to turn her out for getting an abortion, or even just for becoming pregnant. IMO, people like that have no business being actual parents, let alone FOSTER parents. This is a girl who very clearly needs help, and for once, seems to have the mental faculties and determination necessary to try and get said help, and yet, the state keeps slamming the door in her face. Quit being heartless bastards, just this once.

And DON'T "welcome to fark" me. I guarantee you I've probably been on here longer than you have.

First of all, she probably is a slut. She got pregnant at 16 after all. There's no allegation she was raped, so it was consensual. So, yeah, she's a slut. Just sayin'.

Whether or not she's a slut shouldn't have any bearing on whether she can have an abortion, and doesn't in this case.

It's a convenient argument of pro-choicers that any opposition to abortion is based on "slut-shaming". It make ...


Hey, here's a great idea... as pro-lifers, what we should do is blatantly slut-shame someone, then complain about how the pro-choicers falsely accuse us of slut-shaming women!

IT'S A FANTASTIC IDEA!
 
2013-10-08 02:17:47 AM  

Pincy: bindlestiff2600: just sayin

age to smoke 18
age to vote     18
age to drink     21
age to drive with help 16
age to drive by yourself 18

age to become pregnant and or raise a child - no age requirement necesary

Your point?  Are you saying we could somehow legally mandate when a girl starts to menstruate?


no
i would tho invite suggestions as to why the age limits were established
ive generally been told that it was because of a lack of maturity
your erudite thoughts on the matter are welcome
 
2013-10-08 02:22:32 AM  

lennavan: skullkrusher: underaged kid can't get medical procedure without guardian's consent. We pretend that kids should be able to get medical procedures without parental consent but just this one time.

I'm honestly curious to hear you clarify this statement.  Are you for or against medical procedures for guardian's consent and why?

It's not supposed to be a trap.  I honestly have no idea how I feel and it's not just abortion.  What about a person who wants a sex change but their parents do not consent?  I have no idea what the guiding moral or belief is, so if you wanna share yours with me, I would be greatly appreciative.

Also, you're a dick.

See you can tell by that last part it's actually me.


I think the test for requiring consent of a guardian should be this:
"Can we do it later, and still have a similar result?"

If you want gender reassignment at 16, your gender gets reassigned whether you wait until you're 18 or not.
If you want an abortion at 16, and you wait until you're 18, that's called murder.
 
2013-10-08 02:32:21 AM  

Rhino_man: lennavan: skullkrusher: underaged kid can't get medical procedure without guardian's consent. We pretend that kids should be able to get medical procedures without parental consent but just this one time.

snip

If you want gender reassignment at 16, your gender gets reassigned whether you wait until you're 18 or not.
If you want an abortion at 16, and you wait until you're 18, that's called murder.


well not necessarily - if its condoned by the legal system then its ok

example  - executions are not considered murder
example -  killing on behalf of the gov't is not considered murder
so then if the govt says its ok, then its not murder

in any case if it was murder then it would have to be considered pre-meditated and the female would have to get the death penalty (ironic since it would be govt ordered and thus not murder)
 
2013-10-08 04:16:34 AM  

bindlestiff2600: Pincy: bindlestiff2600: just sayin

age to smoke 18
age to vote     18
age to drink     21
age to drive with help 16
age to drive by yourself 18

age to become pregnant and or raise a child - no age requirement necesary

Your point?  Are you saying we could somehow legally mandate when a girl starts to menstruate?

no
i would tho invite suggestions as to why the age limits were established
ive generally been told that it was because of a lack of maturity
your erudite thoughts on the matter are welcome


Well, it USED to be that it was 21, across the board. None of this b/s about driving, voting, whatever. If a girl's parents wanted to allow a man to ask for her to be married sooner, that was between her father and the other man--but a girl and a boy running off to get married would be sent back to their respective parents post-haste if they got caught; and the same opprobium went to the boy as much as the girl. A 17-year old boy pretending to be a man would have been in as much trouble as a 17-year old girl pretending to be a woman in most of the world.

Then along came the 20th Century. Specifically, the 60's, and the ugly Vietnam war and the ugly draft. People rightly began questioning howcome kids were being sent off to a war they hadn't been allowed to vote on. The bumper-sticker slogan was "You can't drink or vote, but you can fight & die at 18". That was correctly deemed to be not only unfair, but pretty damn stupid, and so the voting age was lowered, as was the drinking age. And it was acknowledged to be idiotic that the Army would hand a kid an M-16 but couldn't hand him a beer.

As far as driving, driver's ed used to be a required high school class, mostly because it was convenient. 16 was a good age to hand some fool kid a driver's license because it gave him/her at least two years under mommy & daddy's roof and in mommy & daddy's car to practice not killing anyone before getting turned loose on the rest of us. Then MADD came along and blurred that convenient line; so now we have the drinking age back up to 21 and the driving age all over the map. Really, the drinking age should be lower and the driving age should be higher, imo, if you want to reduce drinking and driving accidents; but try convincing moms against drunken kids of that.

Nobody has ever been able to figure out what "age of consent" means. It has been as low as 13 and as high as 19 and never tied to legal adulthood anywhere that I know of, likely because girls come to menarche long before they're anything like physically or emotionally mature nowadays. And since arranged marriages are frowned upon and women are encouraged to "do their own thing", sex and adulthood have nothing to do with legal adulthood or even some arbitrary age marker.

Really, they logically should come as one legal package. When you're considered old enough to legally contract, then that's the age of adulthood, and you get everything: the right to drink, drive, marry, kill, vote, abort your own fetus, have sex, get drafted, whatever. Go crazy. Pick an age. If 18 sounds good, then that will be it. If we want everyone to wait till 21, then that's fine too. But none of this business of a girl being old enough to bear a child at 16 but not old enough to decide she wants an abortion; none of this nonsense of being too young to drink at 18 but old enough to go to an adult prison if you get caught drinking and driving. Draw a line and put kids on one side and adults on the other.

I have spoken.
 
2013-10-08 04:42:30 AM  

Gyrfalcon: bindlestiff2600: Pincy: bindlestiff2600: just sayin

snip
snip

agreed

in addition   a boy can be considered an adult if he commits a horrific crime
but not by demonstrating wisdom and responsiblity

 
2013-10-08 04:55:52 AM  
seriously the judge ho made the initial ruling should have recused himself given his strong opinions on abortion likely made him unable to make a impartial ruling.

That's how i would have appealed it, on those grounds i think the supreme court would have had to order a new hearing as a conflict of interest is plain to see.
 
2013-10-08 05:34:28 AM  
It takes a village to raise a child. And as long as I don't have to pay for it, really, who cares who raises it? Out of sight, out of mind.

I mean, if it causes trouble later, we can just put it in prison with all the others that probably should have been aborted if not for our commitment to life.
 
2013-10-08 05:37:59 AM  

bindlestiff2600: Rhino_man: lennavan: skullkrusher: underaged kid can't get medical procedure without guardian's consent. We pretend that kids should be able to get medical procedures without parental consent but just this one time.

snip

If you want gender reassignment at 16, your gender gets reassigned whether you wait until you're 18 or not.
If you want an abortion at 16, and you wait until you're 18, that's called murder.

well not necessarily - if its condoned by the legal system then its ok

example  - executions are not considered murder
example -  killing on behalf of the gov't is not considered murder
so then if the govt says its ok, then its not murder

in any case if it was murder then it would have to be considered pre-meditated and the female would have to get the death penalty (ironic since it would be govt ordered and thus not murder)


Killing people because they deserve it is usually ok.
 
2013-10-08 05:42:00 AM  

sendtodave: bindlestiff2600: Rhino_man: lennavan: skullkrusher: underaged kid can't get medical procedure without guardian's consent. We pretend that kids should be able to get medical procedures without parental consent but just this one time.

snip

If you want gender reassignment at 16, your gender gets reassigned whether you wait until you're 18 or not.
If you want an abortion at 16, and you wait until you're 18, that's called murder.

well not necessarily - if its condoned by the legal system then its ok

example  - executions are not considered murder
example -  killing on behalf of the gov't is not considered murder
so then if the govt says its ok, then its not murder

in any case if it was murder then it would have to be considered pre-meditated and the female would have to get the death penalty (ironic since it would be govt ordered and thus not murder)

Killing people because they deserve it is usually ok.


Also, "killing on behalf of the government" usually means "killing people that are trying to kill you" and is therefore usually OK.
 
2013-10-08 05:57:13 AM  

Rhino_man: sendtodave: bindlestiff2600: Rhino_man: lennavan: skullkrusher: underaged kid can't get medical procedure without guardian's consent. We pretend that kids should be able to get medical procedures without parental consent but just this one time.

snip

If you want gender reassignment at 16, your gender gets reassigned whether you wait until you're 18 or not.
If you want an abortion at 16, and you wait until you're 18, that's called murder.

well not necessarily - if its condoned by the legal system then its ok

example  - executions are not considered murder
example -  killing on behalf of the gov't is not considered murder
so then if the govt says its ok, then its not murder

in any case if it was murder then it would have to be considered pre-meditated and the female would have to get the death penalty (ironic since it would be govt ordered and thus not murder)

Killing people because they deserve it is usually ok.

Also, "killing on behalf of the government" usually means "killing people that are trying to kill you" and is therefore usually OK.


Exactly! And they wouldn't be trying to kill us if we weren't there, and we wouldn't be there if they didn't deserve it!

QED
 
2013-10-08 06:01:03 AM  

sendtodave: Rhino_man: sendtodave: bindlestiff2600: Rhino_man: lennavan: skullkrusher: underaged kid can't get medical procedure without guardian's consent. We pretend that kids should be able to get medical procedures without parental consent but just this one time.

snip

If you want gender reassignment at 16, your gender gets reassigned whether you wait until you're 18 or not.
If you want an abortion at 16, and you wait until you're 18, that's called murder.

well not necessarily - if its condoned by the legal system then its ok

example  - executions are not considered murder
example -  killing on behalf of the gov't is not considered murder
so then if the govt says its ok, then its not murder

in any case if it was murder then it would have to be considered pre-meditated and the female would have to get the death penalty (ironic since it would be govt ordered and thus not murder)

Killing people because they deserve it is usually ok.

Also, "killing on behalf of the government" usually means "killing people that are trying to kill you" and is therefore usually OK.

Exactly! And they wouldn't be trying to kill us if we weren't there, and we wouldn't be there if they didn't deserve it!

QED


Oh, so you're one of those "all wars are bad" people.

*sigh*

Sadly, that position is just as myopic as the position of hawks who think that there's no such thing as a bad war (until a black guy starts it).
 
2013-10-08 06:12:35 AM  
If her name weren't anonymous, and clearly I understand why it is, I would be willing to give her the money needed for travel to an enlightened state and give her money for her abortion.
 
2013-10-08 06:14:47 AM  

Rhino_man: sendtodave: Rhino_man: sendtodave: bindlestiff2600: Rhino_man: lennavan: skullkrusher: underaged kid can't get medical procedure without guardian's consent. We pretend that kids should be able to get medical procedures without parental consent but just this one time.

snip

If you want gender reassignment at 16, your gender gets reassigned whether you wait until you're 18 or not.
If you want an abortion at 16, and you wait until you're 18, that's called murder.

well not necessarily - if its condoned by the legal system then its ok

example  - executions are not considered murder
example -  killing on behalf of the gov't is not considered murder
so then if the govt says its ok, then its not murder

in any case if it was murder then it would have to be considered pre-meditated and the female would have to get the death penalty (ironic since it would be govt ordered and thus not murder)

Killing people because they deserve it is usually ok.

Also, "killing on behalf of the government" usually means "killing people that are trying to kill you" and is therefore usually OK.

Exactly! And they wouldn't be trying to kill us if we weren't there, and we wouldn't be there if they didn't deserve it!

QED

Oh, so you're one of those "all wars are bad" people.

*sigh*

Sadly, that position is just as myopic as the position of hawks who think that there's no such thing as a bad war (until a black guy starts it).


Wars are only bad for the bad guys. It's why things go so well for us, the good guys, when we go to war.
 
2013-10-08 06:49:09 AM  

Petey4335: odinsposse: minoridiot: But 16 year-olds can get an abortion in the same manner they can buy a car -- with parental consent.

The girl is a ward of the state. So she asked the state and they decided that she was too immature to get an abortion but mature enough to be a mom.

Being a ward of the state is just a bad place to be.  While waiting for the TPR appeals process to be over, we had a specialist appointment for one of the kids. We couldn't sign medical documents.  They asked for someone to come down that could sign AND stay for the appointment.  We were like, WTF, what do you want us to do?  Go grab Scott Walker and drag him with us? (we got our social worker's department head to show up eventually.)


Finally got to adopt our 9 year old twins and a 13 year old a little over a month ago.

That said:  This is a plead for anyone who is considering adopting children.  Please at least consider older kids.


If I decide to have kids I'm leaning towards adoption.  And if you get to pick out a kid, why not get one with the drivers installed?
 
2013-10-08 07:08:37 AM  

lennavan: skullkrusher: underaged kid can't get medical procedure without guardian's consent. We pretend that kids should be able to get medical procedures without parental consent but just this one time.

I'm honestly curious to hear you clarify this statement.  Are you for or against medical procedures for guardian's consent and why?

It's not supposed to be a trap.  I honestly have no idea how I feel and it's not just abortion.  What about a person who wants a sex change but their parents do not consent?  I have no idea what the guiding moral or belief is, so if you wanna share yours with me, I would be greatly appreciative.

Also, you're a dick.

See you can tell by that last part it's actually me.


What about a child that wants a sec change but his or her parents don't consent? They wait til they're 18. What about the child who wants a face tattoo of One Direction? Can she get that without parental approval or are they only those procedures you seem
sufficiently progressive that 8 year olds should be allowed to get on their way home from school?

If the child's life were at risk it is one thing. There is no indication that it is. Therefore, her guardians need to approve of her undergoing a serious medical procedure. I'm surprised Lenny. You're not usually the "more abortions for the blood god" type.

Seriously though, the sex change is probably the best comparison since it can save future mental anguish and distress and an abortion can - yeah, I don't think you get to make the decision to invert your farking cock on your own until you're 18.
 
2013-10-08 08:11:45 AM  

diaphoresis: RedPhoenix122: I bet she's mature enough to kill herself when there's no way out for her.  By God I hope that doesn't happen.

I don't care either way. Stupid, self-absorbed, whore...

badhatharry: Why do so many people hate babies? There is something seriously wrong with this country.

Amen

RedPhoenix122: An abortion thread and a circumcision thread in the same evening.  Is it my birthday?

Yes, but there are enough trolls in here to demolish the bridge they live under... we don't need another. :P


SEE....... IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO ABOUT THE INNOCENT BABY. NOTHING TO DO WITH PUNISHING THE MOTHER

*this is what idiots actually believe.
 
2013-10-08 08:22:29 AM  

Zarquon's Flat Tire: Finally got to adopt our 9 year old twins and a 13 year old a little over a month ago.

That said: This is a plead for anyone who is considering adopting children. Please at least consider older kids.

If I decide to have kids I'm leaning towards adoption. And if you get to pick out a kid, why not get one with the drivers installed?


and one who is sexually active apparently...
 
2013-10-08 09:04:31 AM  

red5ish: Any article about 'compassionate conservatism' should mention Anonymous 5.


Any mention of "compassionate conservatism" should be met by guffaws of laughter. And then ohwaityoureseriousletmelaughharder.jpg
 
2013-10-08 11:15:18 AM  

skullkrusher: If the child's life were at risk it is one thing. There is no indication that it is. Therefore, her guardians need to approve of her undergoing a serious medical procedure. I'm surprised Lenny. You're not usually the "more abortions for the blood god" type.


I'm not about more abortions for the blood god, I'm about who the fark am I to tell them no when it comes to choosing a serious medical procedure?  When you tell her no she cannot have that one serious medical procedure, you're making her go through another serious medical situation - birth.  The only reason I ever become against abortion is when the rights of the fetus come in to play.

skullkrusher: What about a child that wants a sec change but his or her parents don't consent? They wait til they're 18. What about the child who wants a face tattoo of One Direction?


The problem with abortion is if a pregnant 16 year old waits until she is 18, she cannot still abort her child.  Like the headline states, if you're a pregnant 16 year old girl, society is telling her she is not old enough or mature enough to decide whether or not to get an abortion, but she is mature enough to raise a child.  I think a teenager raising a kid is a much more serious situation than having an abortion.

skullkrusher: Can she get that without parental approval or are they only those procedures you seem
sufficiently progressive that 8 year olds should be allowed to get on their way home from school?


I don't know many 8 year olds that can get pregnant.
 
2013-10-08 11:39:48 AM  

lennavan: skullkrusher: If the child's life were at risk it is one thing. There is no indication that it is. Therefore, her guardians need to approve of her undergoing a serious medical procedure. I'm surprised Lenny. You're not usually the "more abortions for the blood god" type.

I'm not about more abortions for the blood god, I'm about who the fark am I to tell them no when it comes to choosing a serious medical procedure?  When you tell her no she cannot have that one serious medical procedure, you're making her go through another serious medical situation - birth.  The only reason I ever become against abortion is when the rights of the fetus come in to play.

skullkrusher: What about a child that wants a sec change but his or her parents don't consent? They wait til they're 18. What about the child who wants a face tattoo of One Direction?

The problem with abortion is if a pregnant 16 year old waits until she is 18, she cannot still abort her child.  Like the headline states, if you're a pregnant 16 year old girl, society is telling her she is not old enough or mature enough to decide whether or not to get an abortion, but she is mature enough to raise a child.  I think a teenager raising a kid is a much more serious situation than having an abortion.

skullkrusher: Can she get that without parental approval or are they only those procedures you seem
sufficiently progressive that 8 year olds should be allowed to get on their way home from school?

I don't know many 8 year olds that can get pregnant.


Actually, society is telling her she is not old enough to make the decision to have an abortion ON HER OWN. The sole alternative to not having an abortion is not raise the child. That is yet another decision that her parents/guardians must be involved in. I'm sorry but in the absence of a life or death situation, parents do and should have the final word on medical procedures their child undergoes.

As far as the 8 year olds go, maybe you just think that the age of majority should be lower. There's a case to be made for that. Maybe the 8 year old wants to have a nose job? What age is old enough to make that choice autonomously?

The blood god was snark. I know you're not a big fan of abortion
 
2013-10-08 12:16:07 PM  

thenewmissus: Petey4335: odinsposse: minoridiot: But 16 year-olds can get an abortion in the same manner they can buy a car -- with parental consent.

The girl is a ward of the state. So she asked the state and they decided that she was too immature to get an abortion but mature enough to be a mom.

Being a ward of the state is just a bad place to be.  While waiting for the TPR appeals process to be over, we had a specialist appointment for one of the kids. We couldn't sign medical documents.  They asked for someone to come down that could sign AND stay for the appointment.  We were like, WTF, what do you want us to do?  Go grab Scott Walker and drag him with us? (we got our social worker's department head to show up eventually.)


Finally got to adopt our 9 year old twins and a 13 year old a little over a month ago.

That said:  This is a plead for anyone who is considering adopting children.  Please at least consider older kids.

You are awesome. l have a somewhat militant stance on adoption (check out my profile) and I genuinely applaud and thank you for your choice.  We need thousands more just like you.

Welcome to my favorites.  You have certainly earned it.


Read the profile, thought it was apropos, and changed the profile pic to my family, now that I can finally post pics of my kids.  As a foster parent, while we can't stop others from putting pictures on the internet, we can get fined/jail time for such things.
 
2013-10-08 01:16:10 PM  

skullkrusher: The blood god was snark. I know you're not a big fan of abortion


I don't think anyone is a big fan of abortion, including people who are pro-choice in all situations.

skullkrusher: That is yet another decision that her parents/guardians must be involved in.


Yeah I don't know that that's true.  If a parent of a 16 year old girl says she must adopt out her baby and she says she doesn't want to, I would be shocked if a court said she doesn't get to make that choice on her own.  But my GED in law doesn't extend that far.
 
2013-10-08 02:02:57 PM  

lennavan: skullkrusher: The blood god was snark. I know you're not a big fan of abortion

I don't think anyone is a big fan of abortion, including people who are pro-choice in all situations.

skullkrusher: That is yet another decision that her parents/guardians must be involved in.

Yeah I don't know that that's true.  If a parent of a 16 year old girl says she must adopt out her baby and she says she doesn't want to, I would be shocked if a court said she doesn't get to make that choice on her own.  But my GED in law doesn't extend that far.


Again with the age. What about an 11 year old? Can she choose to play mommy against her parent's wishes?
 
2013-10-08 02:16:06 PM  

thenewmissus: diaphoresis: RedPhoenix122: I bet she's mature enough to kill herself when there's no way out for her.  By God I hope that doesn't happen.

I don't care either way. Stupid, self-absorbed, whore...

badhatharry: Why do so many people hate babies? There is something seriously wrong with this country.

Amen

RedPhoenix122: An abortion thread and a circumcision thread in the same evening.  Is it my birthday?

Yes, but there are enough trolls in here to demolish the bridge they live under... we don't need another. :P

SEE....... IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO ABOUT THE INNOCENT BABY. NOTHING TO DO WITH PUNISHING THE MOTHER

*this is what idiots actually believe.


Why not both?
 
2013-10-08 02:46:46 PM  

bindlestiff2600: Pincy: bindlestiff2600: just sayin

age to smoke 18
age to vote     18
age to drink     21
age to drive with help 16
age to drive by yourself 18

age to become pregnant and or raise a child - no age requirement necesary

Your point?  Are you saying we could somehow legally mandate when a girl starts to menstruate?

no
i would tho invite suggestions as to why the age limits were established
ive generally been told that it was because of a lack of maturity
your erudite thoughts on the matter are welcome


Still don't get your point?  Could you clarify please?  Why were you trying to equate all of those things to getting pregnant as if we could put some kind of age restriction on pregancy?
 
2013-10-08 03:02:10 PM  
Petey4335:

Your karma is looking pretty damn good.
 
2013-10-08 04:12:33 PM  

Rhino_man: Oh, so you're one of those "all wars are bad" people.


Perhaps, like many of us, Dave is one of those "War is an occasionally unavoidable, necessary evil." people.
/War is always evil.
 
2013-10-08 04:42:31 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Rhino_man: Oh, so you're one of those "all wars are bad" people.

Perhaps, like many of us, Dave is one of those "War is an occasionally unavoidable, necessary evil." people.
/War is always evil.


Different terms have different meanings.  All wars are evil, but you're right in that some are unavoidable... which makes our involvement NOT BAD.

WWII is a prime example.
 
2013-10-08 06:44:22 PM  

hardinparamedic: ArcadianRefugee: fark that: what if Zimmerman had had a baby?

/I mean, like, right there, right in front of Martin

Well, we know he wouldn't have let that THUG abort that poor, defenseless little baby. I mean, have you ever seen a baby? They're pretty much formed after two days of fertilization. DID YOU KNOW THAT THE HEART BEATS AFTER THREE DAYS?

Everytime a liebral demoncrat tricks a poor woman into getting a murderbortion, they are killing this.

[takeasmileindia.files.wordpress.com image 600x728]

Now just look at that corn and shiat covered face, and tell me you could murder that baby.


Well, maybe not that baby, but what about this one?!

i44.tinypic.com
 
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