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(BBC)   Anti-vaccination opponents kill two with bomb blast, kill thousands more via preventable infectious disease   ( bbc.co.uk) divider line
    More: Scary, city of Peshawar, Pakistan, polio, polio vaccine, US Navy SEAL, Taliban  
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13394 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Oct 2013 at 1:40 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-07 03:43:45 PM  

give me doughnuts: super_grass: Problem: WE ARE THE ASSHOLES


Every human being who has ever lived has been an asshole at one time or another.
No exceptions.


Pro Tip. If you find yourself in a group of people and you can't find the asshole,  you're it.
 
2013-10-07 03:44:34 PM  

Ambitwistor: For everybody here blaming the CIA:  yeah, the bin Laden doctor incident made it worse, but doctors have been attacked since at least 2007, and Western vaccination protests go back to to at least 2003 (in Nigeria).  This anti-West conspiracy theory is not new and not limited to the Taliban.


Given that context (the anti-vaccer protests), do you think it was a good idea for the CIA to give them legitimate reasons to oppose the vaccination efforts?

/Side topic: One of the effects of the goddamn Tuskegee experiments was giving people worried about being lied to and refused treatment an example of the government and the medical community doing just that (in living memory, yet!). I personally think, based on anecdotal evidence, that it's one of the reasons that African Americans have lower kidney donation rates (I'm talking about after death, not living donor), and it's probably contributed to anti-vaccer rhetoric as well.
 
2013-10-07 03:49:12 PM  

No Such Agency: To be a spook is largely to exist in a moral vacuum where your country's evil is somehow preferable to your opponents' evil.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-10-07 03:50:42 PM  

Rev. Skarekroe: Sometimes I think it's time to give up.
Humanity as a whole WANTS to live in tribal dictatorships.  It's in our DNA.  We should never have discovered agriculture.


I often think that a time will come when the rational, logically thinking few will have a hard but inevitable decision to make regarding the vast majority who insist on making decisions based on magical nonsense and the charisma of the dipshiat spewing it.
 
2013-10-07 03:51:04 PM  

hardinparamedic: meat0918: It was the end of the meeting, and as my other coworkers just stared at this guy with their best "WTF?!?!" looks, I just had to leave.  I've learned not to engage him on this subject, and I needed to get a lot of work done, and didn't have 20 minutes to waste arguing with him when I know he won't change his mind, despite him saying "He has an open mind and is willing to change it".

You can't reason with people who when faced with overwhelming evidence to the contrary counter with "it's a conspiracy", and then huff off when you ask them for proof of that.


I know.

At least my coworker just gets sullen when you don't believe him, except when it involves 9/11, then he'll raise his voice a bit, but his anger isn't directed at you, but at Dick Cheney.

My father in law explodes in anger when you challenge any of his conspiracy theories.  Like "OMFG, it's time to GTFO".  We don't visit often.  His house has become littered with so many books on biblical prophecies, and Hitler, and I swear every conspiracy theory book ever written.  It's a library of crazy.

He's finally getting help at least.

My dad is also going down that conspiracy theory rabbit hole, and I can do nothing.

The only common thread?  All three are in their 50s, and all three have isolated themselves out in the country for decades, only coming into town for work or errands.
 
2013-10-07 03:53:35 PM  

ginandbacon: Anti and opponent mean the same thing. Choose one, subby.


first time I read the headline I thought the bombing was done by someone who was pro-vaccines.  Which is what it said.
 
2013-10-07 03:54:45 PM  
Isn't this anti-vaccination thing usually a first world problem?
 
2013-10-07 03:56:29 PM  

Haoie: Isn't this anti-vaccination thing usually a first world problem?


Not really. The reasons for it that we're familiar with are, however. Third world anti-vaccination tends to be based on the belief that western vaccines are a plot to sterilize or ethnically cleanse non-white, non-christian people from the Earth.
 
2013-10-07 03:57:01 PM  
meat0918:
//Although... I should ask him if his kids got their shots when I do have some time to waste and the subject comes up.  I know he is vaccinated.

Tell him it's obvious that he's been vaccinated, and does he already have enough iron lungs for all of his children? And uninterruptible power sources for all of them?
 
2013-10-07 03:58:34 PM  

computerguyUT: Ahh the loving religion of peace strikes again!.

Peace to you! Peace all over you!  I Peace on you!!

F-ing Taliban.  Truly the most horrific organization on the planet today.  Considering others like feminists and the democratic party, that says a LOT.


It's funny when Christians say stuff like this... or republitards. That's one mighty fine glass house to hurl rocks from.
 
2013-10-07 04:00:57 PM  

mbillips: jshine: Rev. Skarekroe: Sometimes I think it's time to give up.
Humanity as a whole WANTS to live in tribal dictatorships.  It's in our DNA.  We should never have discovered agriculture.

Well, if death and destruction are on the table, one could always "vaccinate" the area with a nuclear warhead.  No more disease vectors; the area would be sterilized.  ...and a few nukes would kill far fewer people in the long-run than giving up on civilization entirely.

That's not how nukes work. You can kill a lot of people in densely settled cities, but you just make a few no-go zones in a gigantic tribal region like northern Pakistan. Your "area" of complete sterilization is maybe a mile or two across. South Waziristan alone is 2,500 square miles.



I was assuming that the population isn't completely nomadic and is settled into areas that can be aimed at.  No, one would certainly not be sufficient.
 
2013-10-07 04:03:07 PM  

Ambitwistor: For everybody here blaming the CIA:  yeah, the bin Laden doctor incident made it worse, but doctors have been attacked since at least 2007, and Western vaccination protests go back to to at least 2003 (in Nigeria).  This anti-West conspiracy theory is not new and not limited to the Taliban.


I am going to blame the CIA. They created a verifiable case where the conspiracy theory was correct. That is not a good thing.
 
2013-10-07 04:03:44 PM  

Haoie: Isn't this anti-vaccination thing usually a first world problem?


Anti-vaccination opposition.
Blowing you up so you can't be not-vaccinated is certainly a third world thing.

Cause is way too confusing for us...

img.fark.net
 
2013-10-07 04:05:28 PM  
jshine:
What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done.

At least the Operative ended the film moving towards moral redemption after realizing that the means do not justify the ends.  On a side note, you may enjoy "Dirty Pretty Things" which Chiwetel Ejiofor is also rather good in.
 
2013-10-07 04:37:49 PM  

simplicimus: drxym: The Taliban - proudly promoting ignorance and backwardness since 1996.

The Taliban. Yet another CIA operation with unintended consequences.


That'd be Al Qaeda, would it not?

Regardless, I say we make a deal with the Taliban assholes: they get Mars. The whole planet. They can do whatever they want up there, on condition they make no contact whatsoever with Earth.
 
2013-10-07 04:40:23 PM  

mbillips: Flu shots are not unnecessary. For one thing, they increase herd immunity and stop the damn bug from spreading to people it's likely to kill. And second, have you HAD influenza? That shiat will knock you out for days/weeks. My wife was in her 30s the last time she had the flu, when she spent THREE WEEKS in bed with a high fever. We haven't missed a vaccination since. I've had the flu three times in my life, and each time I was unconscious/delirious from fever for at least 24 hours. Not to mention the headache from hell and the puking. What most people think is the flu is just a little food poisoning/parasite infection or a bad cold. The actual flu is a motherfarker.


I'm 60 and never had the flu. My parents never got the flu in the 1918 pandemic, or since. So I never had a flu shot (besides the logic of being inoculated against last year's strain escapes me).
 
2013-10-07 04:42:55 PM  

Marine1: simplicimus: drxym: The Taliban - proudly promoting ignorance and backwardness since 1996.

The Taliban. Yet another CIA operation with unintended consequences.

That'd be Al Qaeda, would it not?

Regardless, I say we make a deal with the Taliban assholes: they get Mars. The whole planet. They can do whatever they want up there, on condition they make no contact whatsoever with Earth.


Not them, either. Al Qaeda falls squarely on Saudi Arabia's doorstep.
 
2013-10-07 04:45:26 PM  

simplicimus: mbillips: Flu shots are not unnecessary. For one thing, they increase herd immunity and stop the damn bug from spreading to people it's likely to kill. And second, have you HAD influenza? That shiat will knock you out for days/weeks. My wife was in her 30s the last time she had the flu, when she spent THREE WEEKS in bed with a high fever. We haven't missed a vaccination since. I've had the flu three times in my life, and each time I was unconscious/delirious from fever for at least 24 hours. Not to mention the headache from hell and the puking. What most people think is the flu is just a little food poisoning/parasite infection or a bad cold. The actual flu is a motherfarker.

I'm 60 and never had the flu. My parents never got the flu in the 1918 pandemic, or since. So I never had a flu shot (besides the logic of being inoculated against last year's strain escapes me).


Well, depending on how healthy you are now, you'll probably never get it more than once. And the flu vaccine isn't last year's strain; it's a best guess on what this year's most common strain will be (and once in a blue moon, two strains). They develop the vaccine in the spring of the year they're expecting a particular strain to dominate. Very tricky bit of prognostication, but it's the best defense we have.
 
2013-10-07 04:52:03 PM  

mbillips: Marine1: simplicimus: drxym: The Taliban - proudly promoting ignorance and backwardness since 1996.

The Taliban. Yet another CIA operation with unintended consequences.

That'd be Al Qaeda, would it not?

Regardless, I say we make a deal with the Taliban assholes: they get Mars. The whole planet. They can do whatever they want up there, on condition they make no contact whatsoever with Earth.

Not them, either. Al Qaeda falls squarely on Saudi Arabia's doorstep.


And Clinton's. And the Bushes'.
 
2013-10-07 05:09:06 PM  

mbillips: simplicimus: drxym: The Taliban - proudly promoting ignorance and backwardness since 1996.

The Taliban. Yet another CIA operation with unintended consequences.

That's not true. The Northern Alliance was the CIA operation. Remember, the guys who defeated the Taliban in 2001, with a little Special Forces and a lot of air power assistance? That's who we gave Stingers and Dushkas and Kalashnikovs and ammo to in the '80s. The Taliban came out of the madrassas in Pakistan six years after the Soviets pulled out. That was a Saudi deal. We did give the ISI a bunch of money and aid that they then funneled to the Arab foreign mujahedin who created Al Qaeda and the Taliban, but we could hardly cut them out of the deal when we had to operate from Pakistan.


Nope, doesn't fit the narrative. Down the memory hole with this inconvenient truth!

/the Taliban would still be blowing up NGOs even if bin Laden were still alive
//in fact, they were much more effective at it, as the bombing of the UN headquarters in Kabul proved
///but again, victory by any means other than diplomacy and appeasement doesn't fit the narrative
 
2013-10-07 05:57:11 PM  

pute kisses like a man: I've seen horrors... horrors that you've seen. But you have no right to call me a murderer. You have a right to kill me. You have a right to do that... but you have no right to judge me. It's impossible for words to describe what is necessary to those who do not know what horror means. Horror... Horror has a face... and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not, then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies! I remember when I was with Special Forces... seems a thousand centuries ago. We went into a camp to inoculate some children. We left the camp after we had inoculated the children for polio, and this old man came running after us and he was crying. He couldn't see. We went back there, and they had come and hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms. And I remember... I... I... I cried, I wept like some grandmother. I wanted to tear my teeth out; I didn't know what I wanted to do! And I want to remember it. I never want to forget it... I never want to forget. And then I realized... like I was shot... like I was shot with a diamond... a diamond bullet right through my forehead. And I thought, my God... the genius of that! The genius! The will to do that! Perfect, genuine, complete, crystalline, pure. And then I realized they were stronger than we, because they could stand that these were not monsters, these were men... trained cadres. These men who fought with their hearts, who had families, who had children, who were filled with love... but they had the strength... the strength... to do that. If I had ten divisions of those men, our troubles here would be over very quickly. You have to have men who are moral... and at the same time who are able to utilize their primordial instincts to kill without feeling... without passion... without judgment... without judgment! Because it's judgment that defeats us.

/ my apologies, i don't mean to make light of the horror...


Came here for Colonel Kurtz, left satisfied.
 
2013-10-07 06:02:29 PM  
Well thank got the administration is arming these fools
 
2013-10-07 07:51:19 PM  

JesusJuice: So stop vaccinating.  fark em.  Enjoy your polio, you worthless bronze-age barbarians.


Yeah, that dumb 15 year old biatch should get Polio.  How dare she try to allow women to get educations.

//There is a bigoted barbarian here, but it isn't the Pakistanis.
 
2013-10-07 08:04:37 PM  

NutWrench: LesserEvil: Obama did the right thing by using vaccinations as cover for CIA operations, even if it didn't yield the results they needed.

You might feel differently if you were a real doctor in Pakistan, getting your head cut off by the Taliban for being a "western spy."


You wouldn't feel for very long. Obama did what monkey Dubya couldn't - get Bin Laden. We are lucky to have a man of action, willing to do whatever it takes, to get the job done. Bush's half-assed approach was sloppy and imprecise. The taliban hated doctors long before the CIA operation.It's not our fault they run afoul of the local culture; our job was to get one man, and that happened. It's not up to us to change their culture, and I it is clearly racist to suggest we should.
 
2013-10-07 08:12:13 PM  
Ah Islam. For people who thought the inquisitions were too soft on people and jut took too damn long.
 
2013-10-07 08:19:32 PM  

Trocadero: Well, considering Al Shabbab thinks a round Earth is anti-Islamic western propaganda, the Taliban sounds like farking Louis Pasteur. Gohmert.

 
2013-10-07 09:07:13 PM  

JesusJuice: So stop vaccinating.  fark em.  Enjoy your polio, you worthless bronze-age barbarians.


Bronze-age?  My, that's being generous.
 
2013-10-07 09:27:31 PM  

LesserEvil: NutWrench: What the CIA did is despicable. They deliberately jeopardized the lives of foreign health care workers in Pakistan, and have made their jobs far more difficult and dangerous.

Obama did what he had to do to catch Bin Laden.


To catch Bin Laden, all they had to do was go to the graveyard where he was buried, probably in December of 2001, but possibly as late as 2005.
 
2013-10-07 09:57:08 PM  

DrPainMD: LesserEvil: NutWrench: What the CIA did is despicable. They deliberately jeopardized the lives of foreign health care workers in Pakistan, and have made their jobs far more difficult and dangerous.

Obama did what he had to do to catch Bin Laden.

To catch Bin Laden, all they had to do was go to the graveyard where he was buried, probably in December of 2001, but possibly as late as 2005.


So why didn't you tell somebody, claim your $25 million reward, and make Bush a hero?

Some people really go out of their way to steal the credit from Obama.
 
2013-10-08 12:22:52 AM  

Rurouni: cwolf20: Wait.. so someone who opposed Anti-Vaccination bigots decided to blow them up.  Gotcha

Reading comprehension...do you have it?


If an opponent is the opposite, and Anti-vaccination boils down to an opponent of vaccination.  Wouldn't an Opponent Opponent be at a standstill?
 
2013-10-08 09:15:30 AM  

Nurglitch: Rev. Skarekroe: Sometimes I think it's time to give up.
Humanity as a whole WANTS to live in tribal dictatorships.  It's in our DNA.  We should never have discovered agriculture.

You first, loser.


???
I didn't say anything about mass suicide.  We're all in this together, whether you like it or not.
 
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